Hi adv 22y/o male here struggling to see the point of living a "normal" life.
From my experiences in life I'm beginning to realise that what we knows as "wrong" only includes things that do not directly or indirectly preserve the human race and anything that's "right" does the opposite.
What I know as "right" is actually extremely selfish, people like to take moral high grounds when they believe they're arguing or pushing for the "good of something" when it's actually for the good of them, it's selfishness masqurading as alturism...
Again from my life experiences I've noticed that humans, us, as a collective are extremely selfish and cold but as individuals we cling to the hope that we aren't.
There's no reason to hold onto that hope and if there's no reason to hold onto it there's no reason not to manipulate and abuse those around you for self gain, I don't want to live in a world like that.
I work in the medical field and I no longer see any point in helping others nor do I get any pleasure out of it like I used to. I see everyone I help as a selfish leech and I know that I'm a giant fucking hypocrite because when I help others it's also a selfish action, I pretend it isn't but I always did it for myself, just like everyone else who helps others, it isn't altruism it's selfishness, we like the feeling it gives us not the action of helping others..
With all this considered why shouldn't I kill myself?
2deep4me
Why again in short would you kill yourself because you don't like your job and morality is objective?
I think I'm missing something.
Don't worry OP, a lot of people go through this in their early 20s. Current media like movies and songs have conditioned "younger" generations (post baby boomer) that it's okay to feel this way and speak out. We see a thread like yours on a daily basis, for example.
I can only share with you my own way of coping with that feeling. I don't believe there's purpose in life, other than the one we give it ourselves. To me, life is about experiences, and in the end all you have are your stories.
So why shouldn't you kill yourself? Aside from upsetting those close to you (who cares, you're dead anyway, so you won't experience that guilt), there's the whole
>you haven't experienced everything life has to offer
If your job is no longer fulfilling, then quit. Apply for something else. You say you are trained and already working in the medical field at 22, so I'm guessing you're not a physician or a nurse, but paramedics, med techs, etc are always in demand in the best countries, so go find a job somewhere new you'd like to explore. Or just change the field all together and travel for a bit, see what's good. Maybe during your travels you'll find something or someone that can give purpose to your life.
Otherwise then you could kill yourself, once you feel you've had enough.
>>17207739
>Why again in short would you kill yourself because you don't like your job and morality is objective?
>there's no reason not to manipulate and abuse those around you for self gain, I don't want to live in a world like that.
Do you agree with the conclusions I've reached?
>>17207747
>Current media like movies and songs have conditioned "younger" generations (post baby boomer) that it's okay to feel this way and speak out. We see a thread like yours on a daily basis, for example.
Is it not ok to speak out?
>So why shouldn't you kill yourself? Aside from upsetting those close to you (who cares, you're dead anyway, so you won't experience that guilt), there's the whole
It's more like who cares selfishness is now not only the cause but the end too.
I'm a nurse. Travelling doesn't appeal to me at all.
In all honesty I'm not even sure why I'm here, probably for reassurance suicide is the answer. I see three different shrinks and none of them have helped, meds out the ass. How is my life worth any more than a fetus aborted because of genetic disorders?
>>17207752
So you are a hypocrite.
You claim everyone's innate selfishness and lack of altruism is upsetting. Then you say you want to kill yourself, a very selfish action. Instead you could be dedicating your life to an altruistic cause like you claim everyone else should be doing.
Help kids or something. They are still innocent, so you can't claim they don't deserve it.
>>17207793
>You claim everyone's innate selfishness and lack of altruism is upsetting. Then you say you want to kill yourself, a very selfish action. Instead you could be dedicating your life to an altruistic cause like you claim everyone else should be doing.
That's bullshit and you know it. There is nothing more selfish than FORCING SOMEONE TO REMAIN ALIVE JUST FOR YOUR FUCKING ENTERTAINMENT HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Fucking disgusting, this is THE EXACT FUCKING PROBLEM and you cant even see you fucking do it. If you were in front of me I'd cut you down followed by myself.
>>17207752
You mean the conclusion of " no reason not to manipulate and abuse those around you for self gain"
No, no, not really. Not the bit about everyone in the world being an abusive manipulative psychopath, and certainly not the the idea that suicide would be justified over this idea.
Is your view of the world so dim as to think that no one that you've helped is grateful?
Or are they just not grateful in a way you find existentially fulfilling?
Insofar as the bit about altruism being disguised selfishness, sure, but that's a better application of selfishness that other feasible ways of self aggrandizement.
>>17207799
How is my life worth any more than a fetus aborted because of genetic disorders?
Because it has potential, whereas a fetus with a genetic disorder is presumed to have none.
>>17207793
Killing ones self may be perceived as selfish but generally speaking self-importance doesn't really come into play on [most] suicide, a lack thereof is more common.
>>17207799
I would argue that THE most selfish thing would be killing someone for your entertainment. Although the latter half of your comment makes me think you're just trolling for replies.
>>17207801
>Not the bit about everyone in the world being an abusive manipulative psychopath
Maybe around 70% of people aren't, the majority of which you have to see everyday, because the other 30% are so riddled with problems they chose to leave society one way or another.
>Is your view of the world so dim as to think that no one that you've helped is grateful?
It's a forced social norm, people have to be "grateful" if they aren't they're weird, they aren't grateful I helped them they are grateful they are fixed for lack of better words.
Like when people say sorry, they aren't actually sorry because if they were they would have had the forethought to see the consequence and not to go through with the action, they're sorry for being caught.
>>17207810
>Because it has potential, whereas a fetus with a genetic disorder is presumed to have none.
How isn't that selfish? A fetus with a genetic disorder could still grow to be a happy human but simply because they can't "contribute to society" we kill them, that is utterly selfish and disgusting.
>I would argue that THE most selfish thing would be killing someone for your entertainment
Probably, but staying alive for another persons is up there. No it just really pisses me off because I hear that everywhere and it's a filthy fallacy used by manipulators to guilt trip the weak into remaining alive.
>>17207814
>Maybe around 70% of people aren't
7 out of 10 isn't bad.
>the other 30% are so riddled with problems they chose to leave society one way or another.
Now I'm lost, the psychopaths are so riddled with problems they have left society or will? Or more likely you mistyped. I'll suppose you meant 7 out of 10 people are abusive,etc.
>It's a forced social norm, people have to be "grateful"
Generally speaking that social norm came about because it would be odd if you were ungrateful that someone saved your life/fixed you/took care of you.
Not that some people AREN'T ingrates or actors, it would be disingenuous to imply that.
>Like when people say sorry, they aren't actually sorry because if they were they would have had the forethought to see the consequence and not to go through with the action, they're sorry for being caught.
Not every jackass out there knows what forethought is, let alone practices it. People do not always accurately predict the consequences of their actions.
Obviously yes, however, people are known to do exactly what you said and do that. But it's also not very intuitive, or in my opinion honest, to say that everyone you come across is lying or ungrateful in these scenarios.
>>17207843
Oh, yes I did mean 7 out of 10 are.
Exactly, you can see straight through the majority of peoples gratefulness but hey maybe I'm wrong, maybe that's just the stigma of being a male nurse?
>Not every jackass out there knows what forethought is, let alone practices it. People do not always accurately predict the consequences of their actions.
Almost no one does, it isn't because they're dumb it's because they simply do not care.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
>>17207826
>How isn't that selfish? A fetus with a genetic disorder could still grow to be a happy human but simply because they can't "contribute to society" we kill them, that is utterly selfish and disgusting.
You asked why your life was perceived to be worth more. Not whether or not aborted fetuses could be happy or whether we should abort them at all.
Arguments could also be made about the selfishness of those who wish to keep someone who cannot contribute to society alive, as most often they will live at another's expense in some regard, although the specifics would be wholly dependent on exactly what genetic disorders we're talking about. Like a major heart defect over spina bifada.
>It's a filthy fallacy used by manipulators to guilt trip the weak into remaining alive.
Yeah, and I definitely think it's also a good way of going nowhere with a person contemplating suicide or in full-crisis mode. There's a reason trained police negotiators don't tell jumpers that they're being selfish. Not just the fallacy bit, it's just generally unhelpful.
>>17207704
If you don't like what you do, then don't do it. Change field. Find what makes you happy. The meaning of life is to get to the end and be dying and feel like "yeah that was actually pretty good I really enjoyed most of that".
>>17207869
>You asked why your life was perceived to be worth more. Not whether or not aborted fetuses could be happy or whether we should abort them at all.
I know but if the reason is selfish (which it is) it only furthers my point.
>Arguments could also be made about the selfishness of those who wish to keep someone who cannot contribute to society alive
If you consider all human life to be equal I don't agree, even if that life requires the assistance of another person or persons, because that would be true altruism.
Still it is a fallacy and a guilt trip, it might save a few people but at the end of the day it's manipulation. And btw because that seemed aimed at me I'm not about to kill myself, I'm too much of a coward, I need encouragement.
>>17207868
>I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
So far I think our biggest point we can't agree on is that suicide is the answer here.
It's not as though I've disagreed that people are not or can not be what you're describing. You yourself say 3 outta 10 aren't self-obsessed. Hell that's generous by my standards.
>Almost no one does, it isn't because they're dumb it's because they simply do not care.
Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree most people are or are not dumb, I suppose, because I would have to hold that the majority are.
Then again, in hindsight it does seem natural that you see the world in this light insofar as being a part of the medical field is concerned. Most of your co-workers most likely either have god-complexes, are compensating for something, both, or worse.
And obviously most patients are going to be concerned with themselves. Nothing doing there. You've said as much.
Change of environment as someone before me commented seems like a better option than suicide. If you don't like that or any other attempts at changing your environment, then hey fuck it kill yourself
>>17207884
>If you consider all human life to be equal I don't agree, even if that life requires the assistance of another person or persons, because that would be true altruism.
Following the train of logic here it also would fall that forcing someone to keep a child they know they can barely or cannot take care of at their own expense to keep the moral high ground and feel better about the world is, of course, selfish.
Not to mention
>There is nothing more selfish than FORCING SOMEONE TO REMAIN ALIVE JUST FOR YOUR FUCKING ENTERTAINMENT
Not for their entertainment, perhaps, but still for their own personal reasons.
If you consider all human life to be equal I don't agree, even if that life requires the assistance of another person or persons, because that would be true altruism.
Okay will if that's true, unselfish altruism go do that somewhere.
>I'm not about to kill myself, I'm too much of a coward, I need encouragement.
Well then go make and post a youtube video, those tend to rack up "go kill yourself"s a lot faster than /adv/
>>17207889
>Then again, in hindsight it does seem natural that you see the world in this light insofar as being a part of the medical field is concerned. Most of your co-workers most likely either have god-complexes, are compensating for something, both, or worse.
>And obviously most patients are going to be concerned with themselves. Nothing doing there. You've said as much.
>And obviously most patients are going to be concerned with themselves. Nothing doing there. You've said as much.
This is very logical, I don't know why I didn't see it. Also fuck you if you want me to do it I'll need more encouragement than that.
Also marry me you seem cool and it might give my life purpose. Also I'm rich.
>>17207910
>Not for their entertainment, perhaps, but still for their own personal reasons.
But it's their choice, if they are born and eventually want to commit suicide they can. Aborting before is taking that choice.
>Okay will if that's true, unselfish altruism go do that somewhere.
What you think all altruism is unselfish? Let me guess you still think the people who do things for the "good of the enviroment" are altruistic don't you.
>Well then go make and post a youtube video, those tend to rack up "go kill yourself"s a lot faster than /adv/
Naaaaaaawh I'm gonna go get a new job. Btw fuck you your advice is shit and your morals are beyond skewed.
>>17207915
Sarcasm it is then. If you're just dismissing it I guess I'll go to sleep then. No skin off my teeth.
Seriously though most people don't go into medicine for altruism or because of genuine pathos for the human condition.
Most patients don't check into the doctor's office or a hospital because they're concerned with someone other than themselves.
If the goddamn problem is that everyone around you seems like they're self obsessed and manipulative, and you know why they are where they are, and why they are doing what they do, and you don't like it or want to be like them then I don't see why you wouldn't leave.
>>17207922
>What you think all altruism is unselfish?
Never said that.
> Let me guess you still think the people who do things for the "good of the enviroment" are altruistic don't you.
There are most likely a few but the vast majority are obviously concerned with their moral high ground.
>Naaaaaaawh I'm gonna go get a new job
Think you could've figured that one out without posting on /adv/
>Btw fuck you your advice is shit
np
>and your morals are beyond skewed
Relative and irrelevant. They're just not up to code with yours. Not sure what moral high ground you're taking anyways.
>>17207814
>Maybe around 70% of people aren't, the majority of which you have to see everyday, because the other 30% are so riddled with problems they chose to leave society one way or another.
70% is optimistic. There is a thing called "Sturgeon's law", it says that 90% of everything is shit. Probably applies to people too. Even so, it leaves 10% decent people. Perhaps OP could reconsider killing himself for them.
>>17207931
>Sarcasm it is then. If you're just dismissing it I guess I'll go to sleep then. No skin off my teeth.
Wow that caught me off guard. That actually wasn't sarcasm it was me being honest. I think you're right about the patients and my co workers and I'm surprised I didn't see it myself. I wasn't being sarcastic about the marriage proposal or my wealth either.
>>17207940
>Think you could've figured that one out without posting on /adv/
You'd think but I was just looking in the wrong direction. That's why you guys are here, to help the lost get back on track right? I'm just surprised not one of my shrinks ever considered this, not surprising though seeing how the government does pay for them.
>>17207704
No, keep living your still need to see the whole spectrum that will make you happy
>>17207704
4chan advisers have a habit of trying to make the point that everyone is at least a little bit entitled. Which is mostly true. For example in this post what would "the good of something" be? Would it be if people weren't extremely selfish (which I think is false)? Would that be for the good of something? Would you just be trying to make yourself feel better because you also act out of selfishness sometimes?
What would happen if people weren't selfish? Utopia?
Society does prescribe roles to people who are best suited for that job. Why would that be wrong? Are you the only one entitled to your medical knowledge? Sure there are people that abuse the system but there are most definitely people that need your help/ could use that knowledge to not die.
Are their lives not worth it? Is every case going to have to be case by case on a morality standpoint?
>>17208062
>4chan advisers have a habit of trying to make the point that everyone is at least a little bit entitled. Which is mostly true. For example in this post what would "the good of something" be? Would it be if people weren't extremely selfish (which I think is false)? Would that be for the good of something? Would you just be trying to make yourself feel better because you also act out of selfishness sometimes?
Is is why my initial conclusion was suicide. Although It wasn't addressed by anyone else at the end of the day if I was to change even one person it would make me selfish, thus the situation I'm in is a paradox and I can't see an end but I'm hoping a new career will at least help ease my mind a bit.
