What are some adult content artists you support?
What do you look for in a patreon before supporting?
Do you think patreon has improved the online adult content communities?
Do you have any criticism on patreon?
Discuss.
>>217131
none
if they are not on patreaon
not one bit
it costs money and supports total faggots
Artists making a buck off protected IPs should die in a fire
>>217131
I think patreon took artists away from commissions and into their own projects which is good. Most porn commissions are shitty OC's anyway.
The only problem I see is some artists going the paywall route. I think that's a mistake. You might get more money, but you stop your growth. It's like intentionally crippling yourself. I think as the time goes on, more artists will switch to a more open model as they see their followings dwindle.
>complaining about porn
>>217131
>SLB, Ovens, Crystalcheese
>Prior track record producing good art, regular updates, exclusive content.
>Not sure one way or the other.
>Patreon is a great way to support artists, but a lousy format to release and organize new content or an ongoing comic.
Thinking of starting a patreon sometime in the future, if people demand it. Seems like the most acceptable way to handle it is to not have hidden content just for your biggest patrons, huh? Just put it out there?
>tfw when civil engineer
>tfw Incase makes more money than me
>>217482
Haha
Speaking of Patreon, did you guys hear about this?
http://www.csoonline.com/article/3007402/cyber-attacks-espionage/patreon-users-threatened-by-ashley-madison-scammers.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Patreon-to-users-Scammers-are-lying/articleshow/49908510.cms
>>217567
I got one of those. I got a bit worried for about 10 seconds, before I realised that the e-mail was very vague. Nowhere did it actually say any of my personal information. I thought a real blackmail message would have some of my private information to show that the they means business.
Every piece of information in the e-mail was publicly availible already so I figured whoever wrote it doesn't have dick and ignored it.
Also it asked for 1 bitcoin to be sent. That's just bizarre
I have (more like had) over 700+ favorite artists. I like SFW & NSFW. I'm not made of money. Most artist who join that site use it like it's their very own paysite. I stopped following a lot of artist I liked as a result. There are those that ask for support who keep their stuff on both ends because they don't want their fans missing out, but these type of artist are rare.
I'm an alienated follower who stopped giving a shit what they make behind paywalls. Only the artist who don't want their fans missing out are worth supporting. That's my take on this.
InCase ain't worth the time of day. Praise lord Akabur instead.
I support only one artist totem_pole666 he is creating cummoner
https://www.patreon.com/vilga?ty=h
I would support game makers if they ever finished their games.
the best and only shadman: https://www.patreon.com/shadbase?ty=h WITHOUT PAYWALLS - WITHOUT CENSORSHIP
I like patreon cause I use mine more as a tip jar. But I only upload my sketches and hi res images on it mostly so I get in the habit of drawing everyday and give back to people who support me. But I hate seeing paywall shit.
>>217482
to be fair, he probably spent longer and sacrificed more to develop his skills than you did getting your degree. getting as good as Incase is takes about 7-10 years of hard work, staying indoors drawing while everyone else is going out having social lives. making good art is hard as fuck. I do it for a living, too, and I often wish I'd gone into something like civil engineering or computer science or something more stable and less intense.
Did you know that Little Tails has have had a patreon for a year?
https://www.patreon.com/littletails?ty=h
>>218381
>400 dollars per character anyway
HAHAHAHAHAH, fuck that and fuck you.
You can't donate via paypal to a nsfw patreon. As a creator, could you still withdraw your earnings to paypal even if your page is marked as nsfw?
>>217131
What's the ideal patreon system for porn artists and webcomics? I know the paywall method is looked down upon but you can't help but admit it's effective.
Also, what are some great tier rewards. Personally I think milestones are bullshit and just lead to empty promises. Just look at Chochi.
>>217131
Patreon is still OK when a content creators dont block their stuff on patreon
Whatever they do is OK, including paywall. If you don't like it, don't support them.
People got bills to pay so move along and don't bitch when somebody doesn't provide you with free porn, there's plenty of it out there.
>>219346
consumerist detected
>>219346
Instead of abusing something that was meant to be a tip jar feature, they should get an actual job. Not release artwork with patreon logos that act as censorship (worst than japanese censorship), in hopes to gain followers. That's crappy advertisement.
>>219397
I agree with this guy. It gets even worse with Deviantartists. Look at both Rhemora and Ullamatzuchinii as examples. It only gets worse from here.
>>219397
"get an actual job" because being an artist could never ever be a job right? fuck you man.
That said totally agree on the whole patreon censorship sucks kinda thing. That's terrible.
>>219772
I don't consider it as a real job. It's more a hobby.
>>219868
>Pay me, and I'll supply you with porn.
So I guess artist are whores. You made it sound like prostitution.
>>219969
>getting paid for a service
>'prostitution'
hm. isn't that just a job tho? lol
>>219346
This is where I'm at with it.
>>219866
I consider plumbing to be a hobby but that doesn't mean I'm not a retard.
>"get a real job"
>not realizing it's actually "don't make this your only source of income"
>>220405
He doesn't want to pay them for his wank fodder.
>>220405
I don't fap to porn. I am a artist. I'm just not a member of the Patreon whore house.
>>218944
Incase is a kek that draws interracial porn. Akabur is the future.
There threads are always the same, two sides shitflinging and whining. Why do we even have them?
fuckin fluffy is who i support!
https://www.patreon.com/FluffyArt?ty=c
if an artist I like gets to draw porn all the time, that means there is more porn, I like free stuff but I guess the paying folks could be on a timer like first dibs for supporters?
People will complain about not getting stuff for free, but they even complain to me, a commissioner.
One time I was trying to have a thread where I teased out the existence of a few of the commissions I had made to release them later. One guy just kept screaming at me in the thread that I was a a fascist for not just immediately dumping in just the specific way that he wanted because he was so poor that he could somehow afford the internet and a personal pc but not $5 for a sketch from a starving artist.
It was weird.
support your artists!
SaltyIceCream is the only big one. There's maybe a dozen smaller guys
>>219346
I've got no problem with artists having paywall content. I understand why they do it. But I'm not going to feel guilty when I get that content for free through other means. I support artists because I genuinely want to, not because I feel I have to.
>>217131
>What are some adult content artists you support?
I don't support porn patreons because drawn porn is trivially easy to find for free.
Artists have other channels to make "bank" too, if they're good.
>What do you look for in a patreon before supporting?
Is not a paywall.
>Do you think patreon has improved the online adult content communities?
No.
>Do you have any criticism on patreon?
Used as a paywall by shitty artists with egos that think they can compete for my funbux.
>>217481
Content should be very low on the teirs.
Free porn is better for self-promotion than posting thumbnails on free sites.
Higher teirs should just have extra perks like commissions, higher res art and early access.
I don't have anything against Patreon unless it's being used as a paywall. If an artist still releases their work for free, and uses patreon to post things like higher-res, and whatever, that's completely fine.
My only issue is that it's completely stopped commissions for most unless you're supporting on their highest tier(which is usually limited and over-priced because they don't want to do them in the first place).
>>217302
Sadly most artist own projects are still shitty OC's.
I'd just rather them do fanart or be able to commission fanart myself. I like artist for their art styles, not necessarily their own personal characters or projects.
The ones that do fanart do the same fucking Zelda, Mario and whatever else popular shit that has tons of porn already, and that gets old real fast. At least when people commission OC's they're different.
>>217131
>all these psds and sai files
edit heavan
>"come on, getting paid to draw things and what you want to draw isn't a job! Get a real job like the rest of us grown ups and stop drawing things that earn you money!"
when will the wagekeks learn
I chat, follow and support OVI on Patreon. He does mostly Lois Griffin pictures. He and I have been working on a comic. Only a couple of pages up so far, but there's still plenty more to come.
https://www.patreon.com/ovsworkshop?ty=c
>>219346
Well I don't find the paywall method wrong, but rather what the artist is blocking off is what gets me.
If I were to set a Patreon for myself I'd have alternate colors, higher resolutions, and sketches of abandoned projects I wouldn't normally release on the internet for my supporters.
Pateron should be used as "Oh hey thanks for the cash, here's a little extra for you" instead of "GIB MONEYS PLZ THEN I REMOVE LOGO THANKS."
>>221310
Shit thread for a shit board. Bout right if you ask me
>>223957
>Pateron should be used as "Oh hey thanks for the cash, here's a little extra for you" instead of "GIB MONEYS PLZ THEN I REMOVE LOGO THANKS."
This.
I support Magnifire at
https://www.patreon.com/Magnifire?ty=h
Mainly because I like his art and has done good commission work for me at a good cost, but also he doesn't lock 99% of his work behind Patreon. Everything comes to Hentai Foundry a week later, so he is at least being cool about just setting it up for donations and a very rare exclusive image here and there.
>>219018
I believe you can, yeah. I went with the direct deposit route which I think is also the cheapest for you as well because they all take a small percentage out.
Art is extremely subjective, as much as the personalities of the artists themselves. That said, I think there are two main things you can offer to have a successful Patreon:
1. Input on art. The number one thing people have in their mind when they support an artist they like, whether they'll admit it or not, is the chance that they might get to have THEIR idea drawn by them. If it's monthly sketches, if it's a vote on what they should do next, if it's a chance to get their character in the project, if it's a raffle, etc. Obviously the biggest of these is the chance for what is essentially a free commission. Particularly from artists who don't do them.
2. Access to everything. I mean everything. All those crappy sketches you did as a joke in-between proper full colored pics? Post em. All that concept art for that comic? Post em. All the .PSD and hi-res stuff? Post em. A lot of artists hate doing this, because they don't think they're any good, but look at this way - if an artist YOU really admired offered to share his entire sketchbook, wouldn't you jump on it? Every single time an artist brings up how big their sketch folder is, it's followed by a dozen people begging them to offer it. It's a commodity.
This is especially true for porn, because, as many people out there care about lineweight and spot on anatomy and all that jazz, there are a lot more who simply want to see the smut and can get off to a rough sketch if it looks halfway like what its supposed to.
People knock Patreon because quality is subjective. Don't get me wrong, an artist who gets two grand a month to produce two images is taking advantage. But at the end of the day, if you want to support an artist you like, it's good. Don't put all your stuff behind it like a paywall, but don't be afraid to put extra incentives, like the aforementioned feedback and sketch rewards.
>>224045
too bad is expensive
>>217199
agreed
I support lorddaroth, pokkuti and ayanamifan
>>220405
Hear hear, cousin.
As an artist, I don't want to use paywalls because I want as many people to look at my art as possible to inflate my ego, but it's hard to look past the success of paywall Patreon campaigns.
So how about this?
http://strawpoll.me/6139366
http://strawpoll.me/6139366
http://strawpoll.me/6139366
>>217131
1. The only one I support is Mattis Games
2. If their work is amazing and gets me off everytime.
3. Yes and No
4. Both Creators and Patrons sometimes do not truly know how much they are earning due to ninja patrons or rejected payments but patrons never bother to update
>>229566
>but it's hard to look past the success of paywall Patreon campaigns.
Uh, what?
You realize 90% of those paywall artist aren't really successful, right? People like Sakami-chan(i think thats her name) are successful because of having a fanbase for a LONG time, and also because they produce fan-art 99% of the time. You need to be popular + have good art/ theme(comics, animations, etc) + have content people would be searching for(fanart/games).
I can give you plenty of examples of decent artist making almost nothing from Patreon because they use it as a paywall. You'd have better luck doing commissions than being a nobody trying to go the paywall route. I say this as an artist who was looking into it, honestly the paywall route is more likely to make people lose interest. You really need to already have a core following for it to take off.
>>227094
>Not tricking the fucker by faking out the 'pledge'.
>Not removing your 'purchase' the moment you've downloaded everything
n00bs.
As a Patreon artist trying to gain a following this thread is invaluable.
I try to use Patreon to post High-Res's, WIP's and polls. But I also like to give out my finished work at desktop res because that;s what builds a fan-base.
Too all the people who refuse to support artists who use paywall, fuck you, seriously, Even artists like Doxy are barely scraping by while working harder than any of you will work in your life AND he makes so much of his work available for free.
You may not realise this, but a finished image can sometimes take 40 hours! That's a week for most of you slackers, and then making barely $1 an hour because you happen to 'enjoy' drawing. Guess what not everybody takes on a highly skilled profession because they hate it. Pilots love flying, Surgeons love Guro and Lawyers get off on destroying peoples lives, and they all can afford to pay a mortgage AND have food on the table.
This attitude of 'It's JUST art' is fucking bullshit.
The most important thing Patreon has provided, is the distribution of the cost of content creation. As someone who regularly commissions artist, I'd love to be able to Pay more, but $200 for a digital image which is going to be enjoyed by the whole community, it get's really expensive sometimes. I like the fact that I can communicate with my favourite artists and have them hear my suggestions.
The one problem I've seen is that some Artist (Reiq! cough!) have just started sharting out the most uninspired trash in the name of meeting a self imposed 'quota'. I'd prefer to see regular updates of a single immaculately finished work, than 100 different pieces of shit. (Cough! Reiq! Cough)
>>230475
>This attitude of 'It's JUST art' is fucking bullshit.
Tell artists to stop saying 'art is a luxury' and 'It's JUST art' mindset may die down.
>>230566
Please explain to me how that is a justification, let alone what artist uses that as an excuse. Putting food on the table isn't a luxury.
It's like people who stand and listen or watch a street performer, appreciate the work, and walk off back to work, feeling not a shred of goodwill or charity to the performance they just experienced. It's gross.
>>230620
It's like people who don't tip the waiter.
>>230475
>Too all the people who refuse to support artists who use paywall, fuck you, seriously, Even artists like Doxy are barely scraping by while working harder than any of you will work in your life AND he makes so much of his work available for free.
See, I don't like this mindset.
You have to treat it as any other job. And that all boils down to supply and demand. It is up to the artist to create that demand. That's why I agree with your first part about building a fanbase and rewarding them.
But you can't get mad at the customers for not buying. That's on you, no matter what your job is. Making cars or making art, you are the one that has to sell your product and if people aren't buying, you have to figure out why and fix it.
There's a reason why pilots, surgeons, and lawyers make so much money: Demand. You're talking about people who spent several years in college just to be allowed to work in that field. It's then up to them to be good enough that there is a demand for them.
>>230620
If a street performer doesn't get that much money, he should look at his routine, look at the routine others are doing, look at his surroundings and his possible clients, and make changes to improve his chances of getting money. He needs to make people compelled to give him money.
>>230621
I've worked jobs that had tips and trained myself to not care. Then again the tips are usually just a minor part of my pay and I never take jobs that rely on tips. Turns out this comes across in how I interact with customers and I happen to do well because of it. Shrug at not getting tipped and act gracious when you do get tipped.
>>230655
I like this reframing, an artist shouldn't be rewarded for bad work. However, in the real world, the artist starting with R. His move to churn out content 'should' be punished financially, but is instead rewarded. While Doxy spends the time improving his skills and art, yet sees little in the way of monetary reward.
>>230663
Absolutely, the artist needs to find an audience who appreciates his work. Again in the real world, this means endless repetitions of uninspiring nintendo IP, i don't know about you, but i've seen enough of Princess Peach and Chun-li to make me gag. Yet steeple keep on clicking on these ones.
Doing online art, especially though a patreon, the tips are 'Everything' , so it's impossible to shrugs them off.
Personally, I earn a decent salary through my normal job. However, this means drawing shitty business process graphics and is artistically mind-numbing.
I current;y spend nearly all my free time drawing for my patreon, but when you're working an 18 hour day, this becomes a hard thing to juggle along with friends and family.
I'd LOVE to be able to start working 6 or even 5 days a week (down from 7 - not kidding) and use the spare day - days to work on my art and build up my patreon/tumblr audience, but this would mean having to find 20%-25% of my income from it, or sell the car, find a way to stop supporting family members or switch from 2-minute noodles to bark and leaves.
What I'm getting at. Is that it needs to become the norm to support artists whose new work you check for whenever you log on to your computer. Or whose art fills folders on your hard-drive, in the same you you feel obliged to tip a waiter whose given you good service, or a street musician whose song you've stopped to listen to.
Not being a face-to-face interaction means it's easy to not feel 'shamed' into coughing up, but the viewers, clickers and collectors should ask themselves, "Do I want to see more of this" and vote with their wallets.
I mean, I've posted close to 70 finished images. Which have 1000's of reposts and shares. I've got a couple of Picture of the Day's on Hentai Foundry, but I get a sum total of $38 from Patreon, for about 40 hours of work a month.
It's sad that we forget about the original creators just because the platform they use to share art though is electronic and faceless.
>>230671
All you have to do is create that demand. Give people something they want and are willing to pay money for.
>>230675
What's your product? Who's your target audience? Are they known to spend money? Are you willing to do work for a different audience to get their money? What's your competition? What are they doing to succeed? Can you do better?
>>230675
Show your work. For all we know the audience might have done what you wanted and voted with their wallets.
There is no 'should' in a free market, which is what patreon is. You working 40h a week on your content doesn't mean it's worth anything to anybody.
>>230687
Alight, here's one. Like I said, i'm not debating that the market should have a say. What I'm saying is that it's obscene for people like Doxy, who has a MASSIVE audience, to be earning the pittance he does.
>>230690
Oh crap, you are in my fav artists on HF. I thought you were just a bitter asshole who can't draw.
Doxy is actually making a lot on patreon.
https://www.patreon.com/doxydoo?ty=h <- 1500$ per week
https://www.patreon.com/doxygames?ty=h <- 2500$ per month
https://www.patreon.com/doxypony?ty=h <- whatever
And that's not even counting all of his paysites and merch. He's doing fine.
>>230702 ;D ah a fan whoop!
I was speaking to him on Picarto yesterday, and he was saying he's barely scraping by, and it doesn't equate to the hours he's putting in.
You must also remember the amount you see on patreon is higher that the amount you get out. You have to factor in the paypal fees 2-3%, The currency exchange from $US can be up to 15% then what's left has to be declared for tax. Then you have to factor in the price of your hardware (cintiq's aren't cheap) your software licenses. you hardware aint cheap wither, not to mention you internet for streaming to picarto has to be robust. At the end of the day those Patreon numbers give an inflated sense of what he getting out i'm certain.
>>230708
I get all that about the expenses and patreon not displaying the proper numbers. I guess I was having an autistic disagreement about the semantics of the word pittance.
Oh and here's some free OC I'm busy scraping time to finish ;D
Don't feel bad, I LOVE arguing semantics. It's like disease with me ;D
>>217653
Tis the MAN!
Your work is ALWAYS appreciated.
Love that you do multiple versions, and don't chinze on releasing stuff.
I gotta wonder, how much other work you do besides just stuff for paetron and HF?
I mean commercial type work.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of non online outlets for porn work anymore.
>>230734
sure thing, all my social media links are on my picarto channel page... http://picarto.tv/andr01d
>>230713
Depends on what he considers 'pittance' vs getting paid 'decent'.
I take it, first and foremost, he's living in another country. Depends on what the taxes are like there. If he's in Germany, then he's fucked on taxes. Buuuut, Germany is pretty goddamn nice to live in too because of said taxes.
In any case, (no, not incase, who lives in belgum I think... some... fuzzy foreigner country over there... somewhere, Idunno where)
Is he making about what you'd expect if he had a fast food job?
Making better then if he was at a restaurant or other serving type establishment?
Making about what an office junkie would be making.
Blue collar worker? Those get good money, but are hard on you, and after 10 years, you're seriously hurting.
Is he wanting b/s level salary? Or doctorate?
Something that strikes me, should paetron put out a collection book of artists that can go through retail comic shops to try and get word out and get physical product out to people?
Something like that pixiv does with their art books.
>>230748
Actually, that's a good point, I know Joel Jurion made some good money like that..
>>230738
I follow Fred Perry on that, but seems to me picarto is REALLY fucking gitchy as far as trying to keep up a constant stream.
Drives me NUTS when fred starts trying to talk, and the stream has these stalls for a few seconds.
>>230753
How many screens you running there champ?
You have the main screen running picarto and your art page, and you have another with 4chan up?
>>218021
Also support him.
[spoiler]Chapter 4 was best.[/spoiler]
>>230759
Yeah just two screens ;)
>>230754
It takes a longs time to get the settings optimised, but if the audio is glitch, i just switch it off.
>>230767
It's not the audio that glitches, it's the stream itself stalls. Sometimes it even delays, although some recent update made it so that doesn't happen anymore, but it also means that it forces the client to update, which I think causes those stalls. It's sort of a toss up, would you rather have constant updated stream, but with stalls, or a full uninterrupted stream, but it starts lagging behind real time?
At one point it was so bad, the stream was 10 min behind where fred was in real life, so he had to respond to people in chat manually.
Which means taking time away from doing actual art.
But in some respects, that's better then choppy stream, because if he gets into explaining stuff, which he does, it can be downright educational.
Personally I think Manga studio should send him free copies of anything they put out to let him play with and send feedback and use for people, because I know that several sales have happened just because fred touts how good it is for the price offered. Even though he says the select tool is weak compared to photoshop.
But then again, Manga studio doesn't crash the computer because of using mass select.
Photoshop WILL.
And fred is notorious for not saving.
>>230782
oh shit yeah, i noticed that, i thought it was just me (and by me, i mean my mac), And yeah, I bought Clip studio which is the same thing because of him ;D it's awesome, such good piece of software!
>>230738
Great Thank you
>>230682
>What's your product? Who's your target audience? Are they known to spend money? Are you willing to do work for a different audience to get their money? What's your competition?
Great questions, especially this
>Are you willing to do work for a different audience to get their money?
Ive seen lots of artists get more money just for targeting different audience.
Are you willing to draw what you dont like toget more money?
>WHY AREN'T PEOPLE PAYING ME TO DRAW!!
Gee dipshits, maybe open commissions?
Seriously, you can't expect people to just pay you to view stuff you were going to draw anyway if you aren't all that popular or pumping out art every couple of days.
>>230690 , explain what your point is. From what I can tell you update a few times a month or something, you have a job that requires a lot of your time, and you don't have commissions open beyond your patreon.
Why do you expect to be paid? Am I missing something? Like your art is fine and all, but you lack content. That's not a fault of people not supporting you enough, it's a fault of you not offering enough for people to feel like they should.
>>230675
>I've posted close to 70 finished images
Over the course of what looks like 5 years. Which is less than some artist do in a year.
>but I get a sum total of $38 from Patreon, for about 40 hours of work a month.
Nobody is obligated to pay you for art unless they're actually buying it from you in the form of a commission. You aren't 'working', you're drawing for yourself. Very few of what you have posted looks to be commission work.
You post it online for people to enjoy, and that's great. It's nice that you share you work, and you're a good artist. but why are you expecting to be paid?
It's very hard to get paid a reasonable amount to do things you like. It's a very comfortable spot to be in when you reach that point, but that shit takes time. Incase started out doing free request and eventually commissions, and now hes in the top 30 of highest supporters, able to work on his own projects. You have to build up to that point, and if your job and other life issues are holding you back from dedicating more time to art, then that's really not anyone's fault, and surely not the fault of lack of supports.
I think your work is awesome Andr01d. Like really high quality stuff. The kind of stuff you notice the second you see it.
That being said, I only really recognize it from the random image that might get posted as I browse the HF updates. I don't really know you otherwise.
>>231500 has a point that you have to really build up a base through content. Picarto's great for this, stream even just a couple days a week for a few hours and you'll get people hooked on you. Maybe do a free sketch here and there, in stream or here on /aco/. Or open quickie stream sketches for cheap and that'll make people want to support you to keep going.
Gotta put in that work. That's why much weaker artists have dozens of people rabidly eating up their stuff.
>>231186
>Are you willing to draw what you don’t like to get more money?
As far as ‘what’ I’ll draw, every artists has their boundaries, but the only thing I won’t do is ‘snuff’ type content. Sometime a patron would like me to alter proportions to the point I feel looks ridiculous, that’s fine too. I draw another layer with the oversized boobs/genitals, and keep my normal version for the wider audience.
But, you have to realise that you’re putting a part of yourself into every piece of work you create, especially when to content is so heavily psycho-sexual in nature. Refusing to drawing a girl being ripped to pieces isn’t the same as refusing to work a late shift at the office.
>>231500
>Gee dipshits, maybe open commissions?
I’ve had my commissions opened for a long time, Patreon users just got 1st dibs. I do have to warn people that the wait is extremely long, but I’m also happy to produce whatever I can for their specific budget. If anything I prefer the smaller projects because I can wrap them up in an evening, but when someone want the ‘super-detailed’ stuff, It’s going to be a few months.
>Why do you expect to be paid?
Look, it takes thousands upon thousands of hours of practice to be able to create something people like, Yes, the work is created with the ‘intent’ of being shared and displayed. There’s no point in just hiding it away. But those thousands of hours could have been spent hiking, playing xbox or countless other rewarding pastimes that you as a member of the audience may have had the benefit of experiencing.
I’m not expecting every person who views a piece of art on the net to pay for it, that would be insane, but if you subscribe to, or save the artworks to your machine, then accept that you’ve accepted a gift, and while there is no legal obligation to reward the giver, there is a moral one.
What I see happening in the future, is that as soon as an artist feels they’re ‘big’ enough. Then ALL their content starts sitting behind a paywall. I’d hate to see that become the norm, I’d far prefer that 10% of the people saving and liking that art donated $1 a month as a ‘thanks’ and THAT income stream became the artists PRIMARY incentive, not the 100-200 people who are willing and able to drop $20+ and live inside the paywall.
>>231684
These are really good points.
Look, I know that you have to produce a lot of content to reach that tipping point where you generate the ‘big’ audience. I'm really not trying to complain about my lot, just using what i’ve experienced to highlight just how much work other artists out there need to do, to create what is a (comparatively) tiny income stream. In my case it's a chicken and egg thing. The work takes a long time to create, and to find that kind of time, I need to cover the basic expenses.
What I'm really trying to highlight is that most people who could ‘easily’ afford to throw their top 5 to 10 favourite artists $1 a month, will happily chug down a $5 Starbucks every other day of the week, but will contribute nothing to the artists whose updates they know they’ll still get to see, because they’re not being hidden behind a paywall.
I feel, that if you ‘subscribe’ to somebodies tumbler, pixiv, HF account, you’re implying “I love this content, I’d like to see more”, in which case the ‘moral’ thing to do would be to make a small tip to say, “thanks man, i like what you’re doing, keep it up”.
Currently, it’s hard even to get a decent ‘repost’ to ‘likes’ ratio on tumblr. I don’t want to be one of those guys that ends every.single.post. with “please share, please donate etc. etc.” It’s humiliating like expecting a waitress to verbally ask you to tip…
I’m close to certain that if everybody did this, Many more artists with talent would be able to halve or quit their day-jobs, and greater quantities of better content.
>>232253
>>232258
I'm just gonna go on a limb here and say you genuinely enjoy drawing. So I'm going to assume that, regardless of the situation, you'd probably still be drawing. So I don't know why you brought up other hobbies as if to say you'd be doing those instead, but it's somehow a burden to be drawing. Nor do I know why you won't just acknowledge that your own line of work holds you back, and that's not a fault of other people, but I digress.
The main point that you're trying to get across is completely understandable, and I agree. People should support artists that they like if they can. That being said, not everyone is going to pay. Paywalls won't change that, they never have. Exclusive content has always and will always be uploaded elsewhere. The solution is to have a big enough fanbase so that the people who aren't paying become less and less of a factor.
>>232406
> So I don't know why you brought up other hobbies as if to say you'd be doing those instead
The only reason I bring it up is because every time one of those other options comes up, an artist has to make a choice. Sometimes the black page can be really scary, and playing a 1v1 against a diamond SC2 player can seem like the easier option, but then you stop yourself and force that pencil to the paper.
it's much like an athlete, of course playing sport is super awesome, and they'd do it whether they get paid or not, but it still requires a lot of effort, which if it isn't rewarded financialy somehow, will be replaced by an activity that is. Especially when your mortgage payments are going up, or your car is starting to make a weird noise, or your dentist decides to give you a root canal.
I'm also saying that the current size of the fanbase compared to the revenue stream it brings in is the problem. Imagine a street performer playing to a crowd that could fill up wembley stadium and walking away with $2000 it's that disparity that worries me.
>>232424
>an artist has to make a choice
Everyone makes choices on what to do with their free time. Everyone has their interest.
>which if it isn't rewarded financialy somehow, will be replaced by an activity that is
Which is when it becomes a hobby. Which is essentially what drawing porn is for you at the moment, right? Drawing porn isn't your job, it's a hobby you enjoy that makes a little extra cash.
>I'm also saying that the current size of the fanbase compared to the revenue stream it brings in is the problem.
Are we talking about you or in general?
Sakimi-chan is making 70k a month. 90% of her fanbase aren't patreon supporters. Her latest drawing has 60k views, she has 4k patrons.
It's really what I said before: have a big enough fanbase so that the people who aren't paying become less and less of a factor.
She's an extreme example, yes, but if your goal is to get money from art, you'd have to be willing to consistently produce content the masses want.
To add on to your analogy, if that street performer can get a crowd that large, he can do it again, and again. It's all about how much he's willing to perform. Or in this case, how much time he can dedicate.
>>232520
> Everyone has their interest
But not every interest results in content creation.
> Which is when it becomes a hobby
This is also related to my prior point. Something is only a hobby when it's done outside of work hours. When it requires the artist to scale back work, it becomes a profession.
Sakimi-chan, and a couple of other artists are the overwhelming exception. I don't hold their success against them, but there's 1000,000 amazing artists out there for every sakimi chan.
> he can do it again
But he wouldn't if his demand was that high, the ticket prices would skyrocket a million times higher and you'd be paying the same price as you would for any other professional artist. Again this gets back to the point that certain types of art just are remunerated proportionally, and to help improve the amount, and quality of easily accessible content out there, people should just start throwing $1 a month at the artist who's work they check for every day.
I know people won't, all i'm pointing out is that it's the moral thing to do, and IF it was to happen, would make it possible for artists to create better work.
akabur
>>234149
>aka bur
Awesome example of how someone is making enough money, to jus t say, fuck the paywall! Fuck I know lawyers who don't earn close to that :O
>>217231
that's a stupid ass reason, you act these motherfuckers all quit their day jobs or school to become full time porn artists.
don't get hustled Jeeves
>>234354
>that's a stupid ass reason, you act these motherfuckers all quit their day jobs or school to become full time porn artists.
Not the same guy, but a lot of porn artists have that in their stretch goals. Before a certain amount, artists usually prioritize their jobs (as they should), since Patreon has never been a guaranteed source of income. The more it pays out, the more they can justify spending time on it. On the opposite side of things, even if they do end up getting enough to live off of, it doesn't necessarily mean they'll quit, or even work more than they usually do. The patreon model allows consumers to speak with their wallets, but there are still people who will blindly support regardless.
What are some artists that sell physical stuff? Like art books, prints, magnets, coasters, etc etc?
I like supporting artists but I also like expanding my collection.
>>218944
Nah, that's patently bullshit. I don't know about engineering, but spending hours indoors pouring over books and having zero social life? The intensity of taking responsibility for someone else's health? I can easily say that 'art for money' is not comparable to the years of sacrifice a person has to make to get into med school, take on massive debt to get through med school and then look forward to several more years of 80-hour weeks while being paid around 60k annually. On top of all of that, people generally think "but they make a lot of money after that!" not taking into account that (depending on specialty) they continue to put in long hours and pretty much make their profession the focal point of their lives around which everything revolves.
Making good art may be hard as fuck but please don't degrade other professions by comparing the two in terms of investment, return and intensity. The only legit point you made was instability, which is true of any freelance work. Deciding to make porn art for a living is a risky endeavor generally because of flaky consumers and more importantly because of the ever-changing marketplace itself. unfortunately for a lot of would-be professional artists, after a certain point it has less to do with talent/quality and more to do with exposure/business acumen. Patreon glaringly brings all of this to light.
I'd really like to hear the range of 'pittance' some of the better funded artists are scraping by with (minus all the overhead). I completely agree with what andr01d has said, but that's more of a perfect world ideal. But hey, it could be worse...instead of comparing your lot with the sakimi-chans of the world, you'd be comparing it with people who earn thousands doing nothing more than cosplaying or masturbating on camera.
I dont mind the concept of Patreon, but for faggots who use it to draw and in lieu of an actual fucking job, they can fuck off.
>>237166
>drawing art can't be an 'actual' job
Why do you feel this way?
>>236797
it's very clear that you simply have no idea what you're talking about. you're neither an artist nor a doctor, so you're really not qualified to speak about any of this. I'm not even sure why you brought doctors up, because neither I nor the person I was replying to ever mentioned them. Doctors are really a non sequitur here.
>>237285
Because it's not a real job unless you're earning your wage being miserable and doing menial tasks a monkey could perform for people you hate.
>>218381
shad is fucking trash
>>237788
This. So hard this.
People who can't draw, think that it's the easiest thing in the world for people who can.
I promise you, it's not like any other job, you HAVE to put your heart and soul into it.
In almost any other job, you can wing it, no matter how shitty you're feeling. In art, your mood will make or break whatever you're doing.
I really think street performer is a better comparison than doctor.
>>217131
I support stuff to leak it
>>237788
I'll admit art is a real job if you admit that making your own hours in the comfort of your own home is a thousand times easier than retail or food service or just about any other job that requires you to do manual labor beyond moving your hands.
And a monkey could easily draw.
>>237788
Pretty sure this post was sarcasm, so I'm directing my reply to the other guy, who took it seriously, because of how delusional he is.
>>237897
You know this is completely irrelevant to point of if its a job or not, right? A good amount of Artists make above minimum wage. Of course it's fucking hard, you get to stay home, with no boss, and no risk of being fired. Just like >>239252 pointed out, you have to factor in the comfortability when compared to most jobs(though I think he's arguing a different point of view).
Art being hard or stressful has nothing to do with it being considered a real job or not. Plenty of jobs are simply not worth the time and effort, but people still have to do them to survive. Life sucks, get over it. None of that "well they just wouldn't understand! They aren't artist!" bullshit. If you're getting paid to do it, and it's your only or main source of income, it's a job.
I'm not talking about the people who draw a few hours after work. I'm talking about people who wake up, and start drawing, and do so for 7+ hours, accepting commissions, donations/paywall, whatever and they do it daily. That's a job, and theres no other way to look at it.
Art packs and patreons are like the painful realization that many artists aren't as popular or important as they think they are.
I'm not a popular or famous artist, so i don't make a lot on Patreon. But I typically just use it as a place to post hi-res pictures for free, and I have the PSD files be something people pay for. Since it's a niche thing that not everyone wants. Or I release things early on Patreon for the people that support, but it all comes out for free eventually
I think that's a good way of using Patreon. as a tip jar almost, or like a "more free content will come if you support me" sorta deal. I don't care for Patreon only content because it isolates fans that may not have the funds to support you.
>>217131
I don't believe in supporting artists who shamelessly shill themselves. For one amazing artist with an extensive back-log of available work sure, I'll pay. For a network of sites under a single price, I'll pay (dimitrys supporter)
But when every single 2-bit artist wants their own personal donation with next to nothing to sell themselves on, an insistence on individuality and virtually nothing coming back to me for my buck you've got a situation that just triggers all of my autism.
I won't support up-and-comming artists until I can support a dozen at once and get more then the right to suggest an idea for their next piece.
>>217482
When you sell fuzzy cunt blowjob garbage through a paysite, shilltron and private donations. You'll make more. incase is the faggot king of self-shilling.
>>218381
I've considered this. shad does great work. There's some bitch on DA as well, darker eve. I'm just not sure if the lewd quality is worth it
>>222093
This, if I could pay what amounts to a subscription for a garenteed commission on some kind of scheduled I would. As it stands I have to scour HF or try and "win" slots..
>>230475
>This attitude of 'It's JUST art' is fucking bullshit.
It IS just art. Like it or not if I really wanted to I could find every single piece of paywall locked porn any artist has ever produced, and find it for nothing. I know it, you know it. Every-fucking-one knows it.
What you need to do is prove to the world and the fickle folk with money to spend, is that you DESERVE it. Again I could scour /d/ and find everything dimitry makes. Or I could pay and have it all right there. But when you paywall up, do nothing to show that you are worth my money then you dun goofed
>>241212
>that amounts to a subscription for a garenteed commission on some kind of scheduled I would. As it stands I have to scour HF or try and "win" slots..
Holy fuck this
I hate having to compete for slots, like thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dIBL4tYQPI
If my favorite artists guaranteed me a slot for being a patron Id instantly pledge
>>230702
>https://www.patreon.com/doxydoo?ty=h
Excuse me but how can you be "barely scraping by" living while making 1500$ A WEEK!
Even if we just cut that IN HALF to include Patreon cuts, tax and other invisible expenses that is 3000$ per month. That is MORE THAN DOUBLE the pay I get for working at a payroll office job and I am not living in a dirty basement apartment eating grass.
Google search tells me that the average US wage in 2011 was 3769$. Doxy earns easily more than that.
>>242050
On one hand I do understand the need/logic behind competing. I love getting stuff done by cupcake, but almost every batch of comms included something for that z-list whore mima.
A schedule would eat heavily into an artists time and quickly establish an "old boys club" situation where the only comms are those done for the higher tiers of pay. But on the other hand, it's not a problem if I'm the one benefiting from it
Reminders
Here’s the truth. We exist on this earth for some undetermined period of time. During that time we do things. Some of these things are important. Some of them are unimportant. And those important things give our lives meaning and happiness. The unimportant ones basically just kill time.
So when people say, “What should I do with my life?” or “What is my life purpose?” what they’re actually asking is: “What can I do with my time that is important?”
Everything involves sacrifice. Everything includes some sort of cost. Nothing is pleasurable or uplifting all of the time. So the question becomes: what struggle or sacrifice are you willing to tolerate? Ultimately, what determines our ability to stick with something we care about is our ability to handle the rough patches and ride out the inevitable rotten days.
So yeah, draw or don't. Pay or don't. Life moves on, and you all still die at the end. Keep it simple; because in reality you're all just here filling the empty void inside your soul to feel better about being too weak to make a difference. I came here curious to find out some nice ideas, and I did, but lots of meaningless blabber. Stay steady boys!
>>242299
You looked that up on the 6th. That number is going to fluctuate like crazy around the 29th when people are actually going to start getting changed in the next couple days and pull their pledges.
And also where you live can impact your expenses immensely. Not just "do you live in a shitty apartment" but what's your states taxes like?
>>241084
one of my favs, too bad like every other paywaller the free content dried up fast
https://youtu.be/R-NmPck2lBU
>>230070
actually no
>>245730
Dude, I cut that in half to make taxes and stuff I don't think there is any western country where taxes and other shit expenses amount to more than 50% of your earning.
Yet even cut in half that amount is more than double my net earnings from a shitty office job and I am doing alright. Sure, I live in a small rented apartment, I'm not in my own family house with a car, I don't support a wife and two kids etc but I'm not "barely scraping by".
You also cannot just say that "Oh this number means nothing. Starting next month everyone will just pull their funding and everything is gone." I seriously doubt that is how it works, because supporters doing it like that would make Patreon as a company bankrupt in a month.
>>218944
>drawing porn is more work intense and social activity depriving than an actual job
>>246563
I'll let the tax point go but
>You also cannot just say that "Oh this number means nothing. Starting next month everyone will just pull their funding and everything is gone." I seriously doubt that is how it works, because supporters doing it like that would make Patreon as a company bankrupt in a month.
I'm speaking from experience, there. Roundabout the 29ths my pledges drop by around 50-100 dollars and then those same user names pop up as having resubbed around this time each month when cards have been pledged, because patreon only charges on the 1st and unless the creator makes an effort to hide the stuff via linking, you get full access regardless of whether or not you've actually been charged anything.
>>247300
>>drawing porn is more work intense and social activity depriving than an actual job
>and social activity depriving
Well, kinda, yeah. If you work a McJob you can still admit to that to your parents and pastor and potential beaus. If you do porn for a living that severely limits your social circle.
Anyone willing to dump some of Aedollons folios?
>>247575
420chan
I'm going a bit off-topic because this is tangentially related and proving stupid hard. But
Are any of your pledged porn-makers aussy? has anybody worked with, or happens to be a porn-drawning shitposter like myself? I want to spend a hundred dollars on porn and that hundred's worth. Not 60-75% because of the currency exchange.
HF has nothing and neither does newchan. I'm beginning to run out of ideas
>>247541
>>I'm speaking from experience, there. Roundabout the 29ths my pledges drop by around 50-100 dollars and then those same user names pop up as having resubbed around this time each month when cards have been pledged, because patreon only charges on the 1st and unless the creator makes an effort to hide the stuff via linking, you get full access regardless of whether or not you've actually been charged anything.
Jesus Christ that is retarded on Patreon's side. If people can just unsub for the 1 day every month when their pledges are actually paid and resub the day after and gain all the benefits of subbing without paying anything, then what is the point of subbing at all? It completely defeats the purpose of the whole subscription model..
>>217131
>Source Filmmaker artists.
>An artist that caters to fetishes I like. You can draw really really well but unless you're shelling out hardcore it's a hard sell for me to support you.
>Not in the least. By that I mean I really don't think about it.
>I think making money off of licensed material they don't own is funny. Commissions is one thing but if you're hustling by drawing established cartoons bumping uglies it's humorous. Get your money however you can, man.
>>248410
The whole subscription model is viable there's just too many naive artists. All an artist would have to do is message or email the rewards.
However, it won't stop anyone from paying for the rewards and then leaking it. It appens with many paywalled digital media sites.
Piracy is still a thing. And theres no protection measures that can be used to stop it. That's probably why the creator of Patreon are not too concerned with it, well at least probably one reason anyway.
The best thing that could be done is put up rewards that arent too interesting to someone who pirates. Are at least make the reward files so enormous that a pirate cant just download packs in one sitting making it a pain to pirate.
>>234354
The only way you'd have good art is by making it viable to live from it. If it's not viable then the good artist will just go on to work on something else for a living, and you can enjoy your neverending highschool tier artist giving you porn in lined paper.
>>249124
>The best thing that could be done is put up rewards that arent too interesting to someone who pirates. Are at least make the reward files so enormous that a pirate cant just download packs in one sitting making it a pain to pirate.
or offer unpiratable shit like discounts
>>249538
>Discounts
>Package deals
>Actually desirable perks
The best way to beat piracy is to make playing by the rules more attractive. Or failing that, just fucking easier then the alternative. Let me support 5 artists at a time for a single flat fee and I'll do it over pillaging boards for their shit
>>248410
I've seen some talk from others that Patreon is quietly floating the idea of making you pay when you first sub so this sort of drop thing doesn't happen - at the very least you get paid the once and people will have to keep paying to get whatever the new is. Nothing official, just they're talking about it.
The worst part of supporting somebody on patreon is having the read the fucking comments people post on pictures. If I could filter it out so it's only the stuff put up by the artist I would in a heartbeat
>>241188
>But when every single 2-bit artist wants their own personal donation with next to nothing to sell themselves on, an insistence on individuality and virtually nothing coming back to me for my buck you've got a situation that just triggers all of my autism.
The harsh reality is that this is the case for many people who are pushing Patreon now. They're not putting in anymore effort than they have to just for a quick extra buck.
>>217393
>SLB
>Thinking about honestly supporting him
>Give him five bucks
>Oh wow is me to be a poor artist who cannot speak English all these mean people not giving me money
>Refuses to not post anything that has so much as a nipple unless it's behind his paywall
>Oh all these meanies donating and then taking it away at the last second but don't worry I'll still post the Patreon stuff just like a month later for everyone else
>Gave that shit up within two months of him starting it
I don't mind that artists give exclusive shit to their Patreon followers but don't make it the only fucking smut you're going to put out. Also don't get pissed when people leak it that shit is going to happen hundreds of people still give you money despite knowing they could get it for free.
http://www.patreon.com/orangepeel
This guy is the fucking man, all his stuff is great.
Incase https://www.patreon.com/InCaseArt
aka6 https://www.patreon.com/aka6
majalis https://www.patreon.com/Majalis
carbonoid https://www.patreon.com/carbonoid_nsfw
gats https://www.patreon.com/gats
Pretty much all artists that I already know I like and who release most of their stuff for free anyway. I don't see it as paying for porn so much as throwing a couple bucks there way every now and again to help support them. The less they need to worry about having other sources of money, the more porn they can create. I've gotten by on so much free porn that I figure I can show a sort of "thank you" to some of my favorite artists.
https://www.patreon.com/NotBoogie
>Somehow capable of nearly everything.
>Best shortstacks.
>Hates begging/watermarks.
>Hates paywalling.
Only downside to boogie is he's almost too adamant about ignoring what most people actually want.
>>251702
Did Incase's patreon decrease? I thought he was upwards $5k not too long ago. I like his smut and the fact that he doesn't hide it behind a paywall.
>>251722
Everyone's decreased. Patreon redid their front page calculations to better reflect what artists actually get, taking fees and the guys that pull their pledges before getting charged into account tends to drop that number by fair amount.
>>217199
... the fuck? Why?
>>219397
It's a job that they do and it supports them financially. What about it is "not real?"
>>237838
Shad just doesn't draw entry level kawaii uguu anime VN-style CG bullshit.
I probably wouldn't have liked Shad's crazy provocative style a few years ago, or Sparrow's for that matter, but once you really get into art, you start looking for things that aren't just pretty but are also interesting and unique.
You're a pleb is what I'm saying.
>>249585
Why in the actual fuck is that not the current model?
A child could have thought of that loophole within seconds of coming up with the idea of the subscription model jesus christ.
>>252255
Get me that picture of Ginny with her butt half way up her back. He does fappable stuff sometimes, but from an artistic perspective he is shit, especially when it comes to fundamental anatomy. He's just good at distracting from that with effects and colouring.
>inb4 it's his style
>spend years perfecting your art
>blood sweat and tears
>some edgelord on the net insists that despite your hard work and dedication, you should "get a real job" as he pirates things you keep behind a paywall
people are pretty terrible
>>252274
on u18, theres a fucking golden thread where some guys are trying to criticise someone for not leaking the art he paid for while he laughs at them.
also, thread related. Warning for goo fetish but fucking funny; douchebag anon dumps BSB's paycomic while BSB was posting in the same thread.
http://archive.loveisover.me/d/thread/5725518/#5729306
