Almost twenty years later, and Serial Experiments Lain still hasn't been topped.
How can it be?
dropped that trash. Things just happen, there is no plot
>>143060384
Lain always has been shit, though. Just another bad anime overrated by nostalgia fags, pretty much the same case as Bebop.
>>143060448
>Bebop is bad meme
Reddit pls go and stay go
>>143060384
>How can it be?
>>143060432
>>143060448
>underage plebeians
Go rewatch Lain until you get it, retards.
>>143060933
>If you didn't like it it was just 2deep4u
Nice. Why don't you go ahead and explain it for us plebs?
Fuck this shit
Despera when?
Started watching it a month ago and dropped it after 4 episodes. To be honest it's pretty bad. Maybe 20 years ago people thought it was cool because computers and Internet, but it's just normal shit happening with some slightly weird stuff.
>>143061530
NEVER
>>143060384
>Almost twenty years later, and Serial Experiments Lain still hasn't been topped.
>How can it be?
In order to be "topped" there has to be another series about a cute girl dealing with the computerized world right now like big data, social media, general interconnection among peeps and their effects on society
Stuff found in Lain is a bit outdated
>>143060384
Wake me up when it's Despera time already.
>>143060492
>implying it's a meme
>implying it's not leddit's nr. 1 show to begin with
>implying it's not garbage
>>143064347
>Stuff found in Lain is a bit outdated
it's really not though. in fact, it's more important than ever these days.
>>143060384
The 90s were the pinnacle of anime as an artform, now all that's left is moeshit
>>143061640
>>143064347
>Lain
>outdated
The primary theme of the show is showing a society where everything is being increasingly connected by networks and how this affects how people act and think.
Someone's virtual identity is increasingly connected to their real self, to the point where they're indistinguishable.
Information is manipulated, only the things people remember are truly real, and to be forgotten is to have never existed at all.
Lain is more relevant now that it ever was.
>>143061336
It was very /g/ related with a bit of /x/ thrown into it. How can you not like cyberpunk psychological horror? Lain is legit one of the few anime you can honestly call deep.
![Texhnolyze - 22 [DVD 720x480 x264 AAC].mkv_snapshot_08.22_[2016.04.28_22.08.52].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hRzQBHw.jpg "Texhnolyze - 22 [DVD 720x480 x264 AAC].mkv_snapshot_08.22_[2016.04.28_22.08.52].jpg")
Close, but no cigar OP
>>143064662
ONISHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
>>143060384
Either Lain or Utena is the best anime of all time and both are actual works of art.
The reason neither has been topped is because it can't be because 10/10 is the maximum score.
The fact that nothing hasn't even come close is sort of sad though.
>>143064622
>cyberpunk psychological horror
Stop
>>143064662
Kill yourself, this show was a piece of trash save the surface episodes.
>>143064458
>>143064595
Part of the charm of lain was the futuristic tech, and you can't really get that feeling if you're watching it today. When it was released virtual reality was a combination of inconceivable and magic, and that really added to the show. The ideas presented are indeed more relevant today, but the way that the show can be perceived has changed drastically.
>>143064792
It was cyberpunk and it also was a psychological horror. What else would you call it.
>>143064433
holy shit I have never seen the hipster so strong before...
>>143064433
Go be a contrarian somewhere else
>>143064801
The surface episodes were amazing but the whole show was very strong,
>>143064801
Nice argument, you retarded imbecile.
Cancer thread.
>>143064595
>The primary theme of the show is showing a society where everything is being increasingly connected by networks and how this affects how people act and think
You've taken it way too literally.
The 'technology' in Lain is an analogy of the human mind and 'the wired' is 'culture'. Lain is about the separation between a human and a person; a genetic being and their memetic 'self'. Lain struggles with the idea that her 'personality' is the real her and her actual physical body is just an obsolete vessel, meanwhile other people's impressions of her create alternate "Lains" who are manifestations of the understanding her friends have of who she really is etc etc.
Like, the computers are just analogues for the sake of storytelling.
It's a posthumanist masterpiece and is a product of the whole cyberpunk thing, but it's not actually about computers, they're metaphors for human culture.
>>143064662
I dropped this on episode 10
when did it start getting good
>>143065060
Episode 11. I'm totally serious
K-On topped it pretty decisively.
>>143065238
Not even close anon.
>>143064978
What I said and what you said aren't mutually exclusive.
"Network" doesn't just mean computer network. The analogy made between "computers -> Internet" and "social networks -> society/culture/collective unconscious" is pretty clearly made.
The technology aspect is still relevant because in SEL, as in real life, technology is an agent of networking fare greater than anything that came before it. It allows you to be always connected to every network you are a part of, and make more connections faster than ever before.
This networking has become intertwined with our society and our consciousness so deeply that it is possible for new concepts, ideas, and even individuals that had never existed in reality to take on a life of their own and become "real" solely by the power of the networks they are entangled in, by the perception and input of the people who make them real.
>>143060384
It's good, but not that good.
Sadly there are only /v/ermin newfags in the threads nowadaysand you are clearly one of them.
"deep" moeshit for mature anime fags who think they are above moeshit.
just finished it. There's something I didn't understand: what did the guy in charge of making the new protocol want exactly? Why did he implode in the end? Was Lain really just a program of his? Was he God, or just trying to become God? Or did he want Lain to become God?
>>143065612
sick buzzwords you got there.
>>143065768
>what did the guy in charge of making the new protocol want exactly?
he was a disgruntled engineer with a god complex and wanted to merge with Lain who he thought he created. he imploded because he tried to "merge" with the real world and turned into a horrible monster. Lain is God, the guy was a false prophet
>>143064801
yup
>>143065396
Ah, yeah true. My apologies for writing in such a dickish tone.
Plus, social networks and the 'information super-highway' has proved to be an actual misinformation super-highway thanks to people's inherent laziness and entitlement when faced with a technology that offers convenience.
We've seen the definitions of terms like 'meme' and 'art' get completely rewritten since the birth of facebook and its serving as a gateway for silly-willies to come along and proliferate nonsense.
And of course, the presence of these jerks is visible even here with the whole shitposting phenomenon and /v/'s board-culture in general, as well as all the stupid terms that magically appeared like 'artstyle' and so on that actually don't make any sense...
Cool, Lain's pretty good, yeah.
>>143065768
In order:
become God
dunno
yes
second
no
>>143065830
>>143065877
Ok. And what about the first apparition of "Cool&sexy" Lain at Cyberia? Was that just the first instance of the wired merging with reality? And that other Lain was just her online persona?
>>143065973
Not gonna tell you that.
Just watch it again, remember that there's at least 4 different Lains.
>>143065973
Whenever Lain enters the Wired, the rest of the world has a reaction to her. That reaction is a new copy that is unleashed to the public. Since the Wired and the real world are becoming increasingly connected, people see a cool/resourceful Lain or an evil/mischievous Lain and think it's the real Lain, when it's basically an avatar online. The only "real" Lain is autist Lain.
>>143065992I already deleted the files
>there's at least 4 different Lains
Wait what
>>143066062
Pay attention.
You might not notice because they all look like Lain.
>>143065768
He was a strong, male influence; such as a teacher or a father or an older, cooler boyfriend. I'm not a girl, but these figures can be quite imposing and influential on a young woman's psyche.
He tried to make her do bad things- nothing is specified because it's all symbolism and whatever, but it could be drugs or sex, he could be a pimp trying to make her one of those school-girl prostitutes. It's that sort of thing. You can reimagine it in numerous ways, but that's the idea.
She essentially tells him to fuck off. She ends up knowing who she is and is self-assured (I think, it's been a while).
Erm, I'm not sure about the very end scene and the secret society lads, but everything else can be simplified to:
Teen girl dealing with who she is, who people think she is/rumours and so on.
>>143066056
>>143066106
>>143066122
Ok i guess i'll just rewatch it. Thanks lads
>>143066122
this. the whole thing is a Jesus of Nazareth allegory, only instead of transubstantiation, Lain able to control the Wired.
Why was he different from the women? He was the only one who acted like a parent towards Lain.
>>143066311
Because Lain created him that way.
>mimimimimimi
what did she mean by this?
>>143066424
any questions?
>>143064978
>memetic
Have memes gone too far?
>>143066062
base Lain, the shy autist
new Lain, the outgoing/assertive personality she assumes in the Wired
troll Lain, or "Lain of the Wired", the rouge personality that just fucks with everyone
It's a basic Freudian trinity of personalities.
I don't know what that anon's talking about with a 4th Lain though
>>143066165
Hold off, if you haven't watched Perfect Blue yet (or other things with similar themes) then watch them first. If you just rewatch it straight out you'll end up having a repeat experience.
I'd also recommend (not anime) "Zelig", "Air Doll", "Mulholland Drive", "Synechdoche, New York", "Talking Head" (directed by Oshii) and "Persona" (Bergman) is you actually want to get into it - not all of them, obviously, unless this is like your primary field of study or something.
.. Or read some post-modern fiction like Murakami or Abe. The Box Man is sort of similar thematically and it inspired Metal Gear Solid, if you play games (I haven't played it myself).
Hope that isn't useless information.
>>143066523
Maybe the striped sweater Lain, but that was a literal red herring so I don't know why you'd count it.
>>143066523
There's five total.
the Layyyyn lmao is obviously the red herring.
the knight's lain
>>143060384
it was 1/10 trash though
>>143066523
i thought assertive Lain was just character development after she became tired of everyone's bs.
>>143066571
Perfect Blue is in my backlog, but I've never heard about the others. I'll check them out, thanks.
>>143066478memes dies long agoWhat we have are El Hijo del Memes: Memes' illegitimate, luchador son
Poor Mr. Dawkins, the only cool idea he ever had became a frog on a unicycle.
>>143066731
"Real" Lain does get character development to become more confident as the series goes on, like how she goes from being afraid of the MiB to telling them to fuck off, but when she's using the Wired she's completely dominant and forward, far more than she ever is in reality.
As we have seen in the present, this behavior is similar to pretty much everyone else on the internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
>>143064662
This desu.
>>143064662
Yes
>>143060384
What's behind this 20 year old joke?
>>143065768
In order to fully understand that part you have to understand a thing or two about japanese gods. They have a shit ton. Basically believing something has power gives it the properties you believe it has. If enough people believe the same thing then the god becomes real and powerful. This is seen as a fairly common theme in Eastern mythos and in early Western. If everyone stops believing in the god then it had no power. This is mentioned multiple times in the anime.
The God of the Wired was created because people believed he existed; thus he existed. He wasn't a true 'omnipowerful' god as he was killed by lain expressing her own immense power. He was a god created through the will of others. His use of the wired was because he was created from within it. Lain, figured this out and became the God of the Wired. However Lain is the true god. She wipes all trances of herself from the wired and the real world. Even Alice forgets her. Yet, in the end, Lain is really there; watching. Thus she became a true god; one that does not need believers to exist.
Lain existed all along and didn't become revealed until the Wired was invented; everything was trying to will her to their side. In the end she removed both sides and created a world where the Wired didn't exist: just the Internet.
![[Kanavid] Serial Experiments Lain - 13 [BD][1080p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_13.36_[2016.06.14_20.00.37].png](https://i.imgur.com/TcjO8bZ.jpg "[Kanavid] Serial Experiments Lain - 13 [BD][1080p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_13.36_[2016.06.14_20.00.37].png")
>>143066523
>4th
Probably the one she is speaking with in the end. Or is it just the second one?
>>143066523
He could be referring to the Game. That Lain was a psychopath.
ＬＥＴ＇Ｓ ＡＬＬ ＬＯＶＥ ＬＡＩＮ
>>143067790
it all makes sense now
>>143068049
L-L-L-L-LAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIN
>>143067790
That's what it is in the world of the show, but it's not what it actually means and why it happens in the show.
You need to add >>143066122
and >>143066165
these guys to your thesis and not read things exclusively on a surface level.
But you at least understand the show better than 90% of people in the thread. Good job.
>>143060933
This
>>143064595
And this
>>143068391
You are correct. What I said didn't apply any theme or lens to the show. I find in order to fully grasp a theme, aka the need of a strong father figure (which is expressed far more precisely in the game), when a new viewer is still having a hard time what the surface meant. I find most people can see the themes and apply modernist ideas to the show but they often don't know what the ending means from the shows perspective.
Telling someone they didn't get the ending because of a lens isn't 100% correct. sometimes they need to know the reasoning behind the actual events to fully understand the fatherhood theme.
>>143068882
>>143060448
For what it's worth, the bait was tasty.
I bet you hate anything that gets widespread popularity. Shitty things tend to get popular but being popular isn't what makes them bad.
>>143060384
ayy ur rite
>>143067395
HE DIED?!!?!?
DESPERA NEVER EVER
>>143070547
I have more.
>>143071324
Why is Lain so moé?
>>143060384
I rewatched it with my wife (who had never seen it) a couple of weeks ago. I understood it a lot better now that I'm older. breddy gud animu
>>143064792
>>143061336
>can't accept that something might be too deep for them to comprehend
>gets defensive and claims the problem is the medium not themselves
This is the very definition of stubborn ignorance. next you'll tell me that blacks and whites shouldn't mix because if it was meant to be they'd be the same color and not even remotely consider that you might not be right just because you can't stand to be wrong.
>>143071389
Subscribed
>>143071458
Don't worry, the cool [new] thing on 4chan is coming into threads to call something you know nothing about shit.
It's mostly /v/irgins getting lost on their way to their JoJo threads.
>>143064347
>series about a cute girl dealing with the computerized world right now like big data, social media, general interconnection among peeps and their effects on society
That's also Corrector Yui though.
The entire plot was basically just gnosticism
>>143071594
>the cool [new] thing on 4chan is coming into threads to call something you know nothing about shit
>new
>>143071683
>[new]
Do you not know what square brackets are? It's become a way more common thing recently, that's why it's 'cool new', because its more common/en vogue. Come on, lad.
>>143071757
>Do you not know what square brackets are?
I would have accepted the sentence as sarcasm in a vacuum but the smugness afterward acting like this isn't something that every board is guilty of made me reply.
>It's become a way more common thing recently
Complaining about shit you don't watch is universal behavior that 4chan especially has always been filled with
>lad
please stop memeing in Lain threads
>>143071881
Stop replying to him.
People that dumb aren't worthy of Lain.
He's the one missing out.
>>143071881
>lad
I'm Irish, that's how I speak. Just because you have no knowledge of other cultures doesn't mean I'm 'memeing'.
Plus, this sort of thing was never as rampant as it's been recently, at least from my experience. Maybe I'd just been lucky up until the last month or two. I dunno, no need to be a weird asshole and make a big deal out of it.
>>143071960
No idea what you're on about, I've written a thesis on Lain and I'm sure I understand it a lot better than you do.
You can see my posts above, they're the ones that are right.
>>143071458
Now that's not even an argument. "You just don't understand that you don't understand. That's why you think you understood it as well as any of these other guesses but still didn't like it. Because you know less about what you think than I do."
Look buddy, when you grow up a little and realise the world's not obliged to share your shitty taste any more than anyone else's, you'll understand that people not liking pretentious postmodern bullshit is no different than people not liking vacuous shonen bullshit. And the fact remains that you still can't explain the plot of SEL, and no one ever does when challenged to, and instead resorts to the playground-level "I do know buh-but I'm t-testing you to make sure you do too!" Just admit you like it because its incomprehensible trippy semi-metaphors with a computer aesthetic that suits your personal tastes, stop pretending that those tastes are in any way better for being less common, and maybe one day you'll be able to actually talk about things instead of having fights on the internet about them.
>>143064662
>you remember his Secretary
>>143072190
Not him, but I agree with half of your point and disagree with the other half.
Lain is excellent, but almost every person who posts about it likes it because, as you say:
>incomprehensible trippy semi-metaphors with a computer aesthetic
It's the whole "it looks like it must be for smart people because I'm confused by it so it's good" deal and it's obvious when you read almost every post in this thread.
There are 4 or 5 posters that actually had a grasp of the concept behind Lain and even at that, they didn't cover the whole thing.
Of course, you are free to dislike it or not give a shit because you're not arsed with it or whatever and the pseudo-intellectual, surface level reading knobs who argue with you are worse than any ironic shitposter.
Lain is good, though. Probably the best anime, in terms of high concept etc. It, Utena, Perfect Blue... One of those.
>>143061336
It's funny when Englishfags can't get into philosophy and critical thinking.
>>143072440
She was a typical badass but executed in an atypical way, at least for anime. My favorite moment from her is when she gets shot in her side while driving Onishi and Ichise away from danger and she doesn't even register pain. They only reference it later when they show her bandaged up.
>>143071354
I don't know but I'm not going to stop watching her being cute.
>>143072539
I watched this twice and still couldn't figure out what the fuck was going on. I think I'm just too dumb for this anime.
i still prefer Bebop honestly
lets love lain
http://fauux.neocities.org/Love.html
>>143072190
>pretentious
But Lain is fucking easy to understand.
The real world starts to merging with the Wired and Lain is a robot/protocol/IA designed to act as a interface between humanity and the network.
It's just another story about the common scifi troupe of collective consciousness filled with symbolism and some abstract storytelling.
>>143073297
God, I forgot how to login.
It's been a while.
>>143072941
Watch Mulholland Drive and then read a synopsis of it. They literally have the same core concept. Perfect Blue does as well.
It's basically girl growing up. Lain in particular looks at identities with Lain having her own perceived identity (standard Lain) and her friends and other people seing her differently and misreading her intentions and so forth (the other Lains). Then there's the God guy who you can explain by considering him her shitty boyfriend or something to that effect.
It uses technology as a symbol for culture and ideas because culture and ideas aren't physical things and computers and the internet where just beginning at the time and proved a perfect analogy for the memetic process of viral ideas and mutation of ideas.
It's really straightforward
SEL hit that same comfy level for me as Chungking Express did.
PRESENT DAY
Lain has practically no value as a didactic piece.
I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to teach people anything, because if it is, then it fails.
The writers of Lain had to come up with a LITERAL MAGICAL PLOT DEVICE (the psyche chip) to create a story in which the real world effectively merges with the internet.
It's just fiction. It doesn't predict anything that can be achieved by science as we know it. At best it could be an allegory, but since it has no strict equivalent in reality, it wouldn't work; and even if it did, it wouldn't be enough to demonstrate anything. It just introduces a bunch of funky concepts, some of which may be relevant to you when taken individually, but that only work together because they're part of a story.
Just enjoy it as a psychological sci-fi mystery, not as some sort of post-human manifesto, because you're just gonna end up entangling yourselves in broken analogies and pointless assumptions if you do that.
>>143078532
>an allegory needs to have a strict equivalent in reality
10/10 bait, made me reply.
>>143078693
In order to be of use as a didactic tool, they do.
Otherwise they're just a narrative protocol, which is fine too.
>>143078773
Yes, Lain is fiction, not a didactic tool. It has metaphysical reflection at best but it's not didactic by any mean.
>>143078938
that's exactly what I said, though.
Literally no one has ever explained the plot to this shitshow.
>>143078991
Yes but I have no idea of who would use Lain as a didactic tool, all the science fiction after the silver age don't try to achive science prediction but social commentary instead.
>>143079152
Explain Naruto's plot first.
>>143079152
Some scientist creates a device that harvests the powers of psychic children to modify the world by linking their brainwaves into a network. The experiment fails as all the kids get dematerialized. The scientist destroys his research
Years later, during the internet boom, another scientist digs up his research, realizes he could use it to become god, and designs a new type of computer around it, along with a microchip that's a smaller version of the aforementioned device; he then dematerializes himself, but not before he and his lads (the Knights) create an AI that's supposed to be a link between the internet and the real world. To that end, they download a copy of her into a cloned body and assign her a family who are supposed to help her get better at internet so she can re-unite with her original internet self. As she does so, she starts affecting the world through her network of internet friends (who all presumably have the magical psychic chip in their computers) and gets in touch with the second scientist, who tries to convince her that he's God and that if she follows his orders he'll fix everything and she'll have friends and stuff.
She refuses, goes into the internet on her own, and that's about it.
In the meantime, a bunch of people experience the results of the reality-warping in bizarre ways.
>>143072941
>I watched this twice and still couldn't figure out what the fuck was going on.
It was one of those post-NGE shows that tried to be deep and wound up being incomprehensible.
The only person who understands the plot is the creator. Even in this thread you have 5+ people with widely different interpretations, and all of them saying "It's all so obvious, you cretins!"
>>143079633
they disagree on the SIGNIFICANCE of the plot, not on the series of events that constitutes that plot.
It's a mystery show, of course it's not gonna present the events in a linear, immediately understandable fashion.
>>143065396
g2b nerd
>>143060448
ABSOLUTE SHIT TASTE
>>143064595
>Lain is more relevant now than it ever was
Right you are anon
>>143080162
not really, it's very much a product of the 90s internet boom, and even if we did have a few cases of kids who went psychotic from playing too much WoW 15 years ago, the whole "virtual reality" schtick seems a lot sillier now than at the time
>>143080295
Did you even watch the show you retarded underage
It's not about going psychotic because of video games, go watch the show again and understand what it's about
![Texhnolyze - 21 [DVD 720x480 x264 AAC].mkv_snapshot_08.46_[2015.07.03_12.59.12].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MgsdefA.jpg "Texhnolyze - 21 [DVD 720x480 x264 AAC].mkv_snapshot_08.46_[2015.07.03_12.59.12].jpg")
>>143072440
>kill me
Lain should replace Monster in the overrated shit threads as main image.
>>143078532
>psyche chip was a literal magical plot device
Next you'll be telling us that the human psyche itself is just a magical plot device too, won't you? Wouldn't want to be inconsistent, would we?
>>143080295
>the whole "virtual reality" schtick seems a lot sillier now than at the time
The timing is off, but save for that the argument that it is a plausible future reality is stronger than ever. I doubt it will be possible to sabotage everyone's thought processes using Schumann frequency though. At least I hope that to be true.
>>143080295
>anonymous people getting together to talk about literally everything
>The real world being affected by things that happen in the network
>Network used for black market and other shady stuffs
Yeah, we don't have nothing of that.
>>143080510
>People genuinely think shows like texh, monster, lain are shit
My cousin also thinks Chopin and Vivaldi are shit music, she much prefers Drake, it's ok to have shittaste in art, but please don't open your mouth to discuss it if your preferences are for the lowest of the lowest when it comes to quality. You just end up looking underage or an ignorant shit
>>143080510
Why is there no genocide against people with such such shit taste like you
>>143080907
Because most people in the world have shit taste like him.
>>143080731
Hey, I believe in magic and shit, but not the way it's presented in this show.
>>143080821
We have things LIKE that but not to the extent where Lain would teach us anything about them.
>>143080346
It's about people actually confusing real-life and the internet. The only real-life occurrence of such a thing ever happening is the cases I mentioned.
People only like this show because they are told they are supposed to.
lain was pretty shit desu, pretty sure people only pretended to like it.
>>143080993
How the fuck are you this retarded
Seriously go watch the show again and come back in the thread
>>143081016
>thinking this is ever true
reddit go
>>143079633
>It was one of those post-NGE shows that tried to be deep and wound up being incomprehensible.
There are surprisingly more anons who get it than you'd think. Especially in the last year or so I've seen a lot of people who finally worked out the significance of the cafe scene in episode 5 as well as realising that the events of episode 9 spell out the most important aspects of what's happening in great detail once you stop being distracted by the bear/alien/child metaphors.
>>143081016
No, I'm pretty sure they like it because it portrays NEET internet addicts as edgy techno wizards.
>>143081032
I re-watched it before coming here. In Lain people are right to confuse internet and the real world. In real life they're wrong.
So it's even less relevant than if Lain was purely about psychosis.
>>143079633
>this much redditfaggotry
>>143080993
>Hey, I believe in magic and shit, but not the way it's presented in this show.
The stuff in Lain is sci-fi as opposed to fantasy. The Psyche chip represents the human psyche - that aspect of conscious thought that allows us to grow and learn and make decisions of our own. Notice how after installing her 'psyche' chip into her 'computer', Lain greets her sister without being prompted for the first time.
There's some heavy symbolism going on which throws a lot of people off when they first watch SEL because they're too used to taking everything at face value, whereas in SEL, events could be taking place in the wired or in the 'real world' and it's often hard to tell which.
>>143080993
>We have things LIKE that but not to the extent where Lain would teach us anything about them.
No fiction material would predict things exactly like they would be, retard. You learn about the social implication, not about the technological ones.
>>143081169
You misunderstand the show, people do confuse the internet and real life but it's not presented as right or wrong to do so, only that its what happens
>>143081042
That's interesting, I never really figured out what the cafe scene was about. I get that Lain's sister's mind was trapped in the Wired when she got hit by a car but that's about it.
>>143081169
>it's even less relevant than if Lain was purely about psychosis
It's not about psychosis. It's about the internet in light of consciousness as an emergent property of neural activity in the brain.
>>143081216
>you learn about the social implication not technological ones
Fucking exactly anon
>>143081042
I'd like to think I understand the show to a reasonable degree, and I would love to discuss this shit with you but I have a terrible memory and cannot remember these scenes to save my life.
I watched it maybe two years ago? It might be time for another viewing.
>>143081227
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_d-dRXi05s
These are two different scenes from episode 5, played simultaneously. See if you can spot the parallels.
>>143073401
How do you login?
>>143081186
>the psyche chip represents
maybe, but in the story itself, it's LITERALLY a magical device.
There's some symbolism, but no allegories, that's why it's simultaneously vague, rich, and heavy. Symbols, as opposed to allegories, don't represent definite relationships between things, they just allude to a bunch of *stuff*.
Which is why the best way to appreciate Lain is to take it at face value (which is to say as entertainment), and then possibly take out a few parts of it that seem relevant to you.
People try too hard when it comes to Lain. Even without looking into it that deeply the themes and basic story are pretty clear- science man wants to merge the real world and the wired, Lain says no. It's only confusing when you try to detail every little thing when the show was intentionally made to be experimental and have red herrings.
>>143081222
>>143081234
It's right in the context of the show since the internet is actually merging with reality. Because "that is what happens".
But it's wrong in real life.
Which makes it irrelevant.
pretty simple to understand, huh?
>>143081275
>It might be time for another viewing.
I've always enjoyed SEL more each time I've re-watched it, so I wouldn't be surprised if you have a similar experience. Notice the anachronism in episode 5 in light of the wired and the real world existing in parallel to each other, and pay attention to the narration in episode 9 (not the stuff about conspiracy theory so much as the stuff about the history of the wired). The discussion of conspiracy theory and subsequent roasting of historical myth is there to lead you to the idea that Lain's own memories may not be accurate. With that in mind, the ending scene of episode 9 with Taro will make much more sense.
>>143081436
Are you literally autistic
Seriously watch the show again and stop being retarded
>>143081299
Yeah I noticed that they played out similarly but I don't get the significance of it, if there's any at all.
>>143081465
It's irrelevant because what happens in the show is not happening in real life and cannot happen in real life.
Except on an individual basis if you're psychotic. But this show won't have anything to teach you about it.
For all the hype about Despera, I don't know much about it beyond the synopsis. Is it basically just Lain set in the 1920s?
>>143081532
>It's irrelevant because what happens in the show is not happening in real life
What the fuck
Everyone reading this is laughing at you for being this retarded
>>143081591
Okay, then explain me what this show taught you about the real fucking world.
>>143081371
>but in the story itself, it's LITERALLY a magical device.
No it isn't. It's sufficiently advanced technology. Learn the difference. You surely understand the concept of a chip that accelerates a device with a desire to continually build upon itself with some sort of bootstrapping AI algorithm? It's not technologically unfeasible, it's just ridiculously complicated to implement.
We live in a world where AI programs have beaten the world's best players of both Chess and Go for crying out loud.
>>143081532
>It's irrelevant because what happens in the show is not happening in real life and cannot happen in real life.
Wow, almost like it's fiction or something.
>>143081470
Mika is Alice'sphone.
>>143081639
Do you honestly think that you can't learn anything from a piece of fiction unless it directly mirrors modern life?
>>143081686
wut
>>143081639
It taught me a lot about the real world and myself anon which I'm not getting into because it's personal stuff that no one gives a shit about. But to say "It's irrelevant because it's not in the real world" is retarded
>>143081575
There's not anything else to know because it didn't get made
>>143081737
Sounds like it taught you more about yourself than about the world, what it's fine.
>>143060432
>events occur
>there is no plot
>>143081755
I thought it was continuing with a new director
>>143081658
There's fiction that COULD happen in the real world.
But this is fantasy.
>>143081651
>Learn the difference
the point of the "sufficiently advanced technology" expression is to show you that there's effectively none.
The Psyche chip doesn't just make computers smarter, it connects the user's mind to his computer thanks to the electrical sphere. Which relies on the assumption that thoughts ARE effectively broadcast in the form of radio signals, which is bullshit.
>>143081792
>There's fiction that COULD happen in the real world.
Yeah but after a few decades that things aren't plausible in the real world anymore but they didn't become irrelevant because of that.
>>143081722
Notice how as Alice comments on the spam messages she's getting about 'fulfil the prophecy', Mika is seeing one come up from her spilt coffee. Notice how when Alice deletes it, the room Mika is in goes blank.
The knights are basically DDoS-ing Mika with spam, which is why she loses her mind in the bathroom later on.
>>143081692
Skills, maybe?
>>143081783
It is. A manga has been published for Despera too.
>>143081792
You really don't get science fiction do you?
>UHHH YEAH, THAT MOVIE WHERE THEY TRAVEL THROUGH A BLACK HOLE ISN'T SCI FI BECAUSE BLACK HOLES PROBABLY DON'T WORK THAT WAY
>>143081792
>only plausible and realistic fiction is relevant to the real world
Read a fucking book.
>>143081863
Yes, they very much did.
That's exactly why they became irrelevant.
>>143081885
So you actually think that all literature written since the beginning of mankind has nothing to offer you simply because they aren't set in 2016
>>143081792
>The Psyche chip doesn't just make computers smarter, it connects the user's mind to his computer thanks to the electrical sphere
No it doesn't. You have that completely backwards. You haven't worked out the answer to the first question, which is why you can't make sense of anything else.
The first answer you need is to the question:
Who is Lain?
>>143081898
The overwhelming amount of science-fiction is actually fantasy where machines replace talismans.
>>143081908
then prove me wrong, faggot.
>>143081792
>The Psyche chip doesn't just make computers smarter, it connects the user's mind to his computer thanks to the electrical sphere.
>Thinking Lain isn't special
>mfw
>>143081931
If it doesn't, then it has no actual role in the plot and could easily have been omitted.
I reiterate: the Psyche chip is a literal interface between the user and his computer, and it works with magical radio waves, just like KIDS.
>>143081987
Lain is special because she exists in the Wired and is a stronger psychic than everyone else. But at first, she needs the chip to get in contact with her Wired self.
>>143081914
>what's history
No, idiot. We can learn about them because they are still human creations that talk about how we humans see the world, how we feel and how we developt as society.
Fucking Homero is still relevant after thousands of years. Art, the good art, is and will be relevant as long as we are human beings.
>>143082014
I'm going to spell it out for you because I'm nice like that. Don't feel stupid for misinterpreting the story, btw. I had to watch it 3 times before I finally worked out what was really going on.
Lain is (in a way) connected to her computer, but that is not a consequence of the psyche chip. She was connected to her computer from the very beginning.
>>143082066
Only insofar as they tell us what the creator thought the world can be like.
Since very few people are actually involved in the creation of each work of art, it only tells us about a handful of individuals, whose views may or may not be accurate.
>>143082118
Explain how, and explain the Psyche chip's role in the plot if you're correct.
>>143082133
Gosh, are you a robot or what?
Art is not didactical, it's entretaiment. It's not about how was the world was back then, it's about how we see the world, that's what as barely changed.
Before we used magical creatures to explain what we didn't know, know we use sci-fi. At the end of the day it's the same.
And what is more important, it's about learning about ourselves as specie and society,
>>143082155
I've explained both of those things already, but I'll do it again using different words anyway.
>Explain howLain is to the internet what consciousness is to a human brain.
See: >>143081234
>explain the Psyche chip's role in the plot
SEL is about Lain's journey from a mere prompt->answer device to a fully fledged ego - a journey that mimics that of the human as they grow from a baby to an adult. The introduction of the psyche is the turning point where she begins to act out of her own interests as opposed to because she was instructed to.
See: >>143081186
>>143082362
That's exactly my point.
Since it's entertainment, it's fucking stupid to call it "relevant" as if it had a didactical value, as if we could learn anything from it.
>>143082133
Actually, the people involved with the creation of SEL really did their research, looking into various eastern and western philosophies, the book of revelation (trust me that there are some very telling parallels in the final arc of the series), as well as a peculiar title: Douglas Rushkoff's 'Cyberia', hence the name of the club.
>>143082417
You didn't answer my question
Do you disregard the sum of human history before this very moment as irrelevant simply because it doesn't directly and literally speak about your exact circumstances?
>>143082404
Sounds to me like you're making a lot more assumptions than I am, by making more elements of the plot metaphorical than need be.
>>143082541
Death of the author nigga
>>143082499
Yes, I very much do. Don't do as if the relevance of historical studies hasn't been fiercely debated for centuries.
it's EXTREMELY doubtful that the knowledge of history, let alone fiction, is of any use at all.
>>143082417
You can learn but not in a technical way, it makes you reflect about themes and with your other knowledges you can learn about the world or yourself but it depends on your personal experience, not all the pieces of art are for everyone and not all of them will make you reflect about something, that doesn't mean it wouldn't make other people reflect about something.
Futhermore, we need to know about the old ideas and believes to progress as society, if we forget about them then most likealy we will doing the same thing over and over for centuries.
>>143082417
>as if we could learn anything from it.
Of course you can. SEL is a crash course in visualising things as emergent properties and microcosms of that which they are made up of and are parts of respectively. It also beautifully explains the collectivist mindset of easterners to individually-minded westerners and vice-versa. It gives extraordinary insight into how the dreamers and hippies of the 90's thought the internet would turn out to be (in contrast to the corporate monolith it is becoming) and shows the power that mere spreading of information can achieve.
>>143081874
So the relevance of that scene is just revealing the knights are fucking with Mika's mind?
>>143082480
I will admit that the recap episode did teach me a handful of facts some authors, but that's because that episode wasn't entirely fiction.
>>143082541
Watch episode 9 if you doubt anon. They spell out exactly those metaphors when showing Lain's father working on the construction of the wired itself.
>>143082619
That scene demonstrates that some of the 'real-world' scenes with people you're seeing are actually taking place in the wired. It changes everything.
It also shows what you said too though yeah.
>>143082615
In other words: it illustrates some of the misconceptions that some people had about the world.
And it doesn't show the power that mere spreading of information can achieve, it shows the power that psychic teenagers with internet can have if a shadow organization uses their magical powers in a coordinated manner.
>>143082601
Making people think about themes =/= teaching them things.
>>143082597
Congratulations on being the single stupidest person that I have met in my entire life. I'll always remember you and your mind blowing level of idiocy and arrogance and judge everyone I meet from now until I die on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being the smartest man ever, and 1 being you. I will always wonder whether you were mentally handicapped in some way that disallowed you from understanding anything that isn't within your line of sight, or if you were simply failed by modern education.
>>143082767
>Making people think about themes =/= teaching them things.
Yeah, and what? No piece of art teach you things in that sense.
Who are you? Plato?
>>143082783
How can you not even remotely be aware of the fact that historians have continuously been struggling to convince the rest of society that they aren't parasites?
Not that there's anything wrong with being a parasite, but when you start convincing yourself that your hobby is more than just that, you need a serious reality check.
>>143082899
What is it like to genuinely hate knowledge in every form?
>>143082866
If anything YOU are more in line with Plato than I am, because I don't think that art should teach people anything. It's ridiculous to evaluate art based on how "relevant" it is.
>>143082767
>And it doesn't show the power that mere spreading of information can achieve
When Lain doxxes the knights in episode 10 it gets them all killed.
Did you know that /pol/ took an image of an ISIS training camp video, used google maps to search that location for fun, actually found it, told an informant one of them knew online, and that location was then bombed in an airstrike?
Did you know that what people are found to have said on twitter can in certain occasions get them fired from their jobs or even arrested?
Forget your talk of psychic crap. That shit's real, it happened in the series, and it's happening today.
>>143082980
>>143082866
What kind of shithole have I stumbled into where people are insulting each other by calling each other Plato
>>143082980
>It's ridiculous to evaluate art based on how "relevant" it is.
I'm not that anon and that's what I was saying
>>143083008
Shut up, Aristotle
>>143082959
>in every form
not in an empirical or practical form, fortunately.
It's a little frustrating because I constantly run into academic nerds who think that there's an essential difference between themselves, and the average Star Wars fanboy who can name every last secondary character of A New Hope.
>>143082899
Idiots like you are the reason young westerners are all growing up with the idea that communism is in any way a good model for a society to operate with. Ask people what the Holodomor is and they'll look at you with a confused expression.
>>143083078
But history is practical. We would never know if what we are doing it's new or not without it.
>>143083078
Do you feel impotent and confused any time people talk about things that aren't literal step by step descriptions of how to perform an action?
>>143082999
>Forget your talk of psychic crap. That shit's real, it happened in the series, and it's happening today.
Big fucking deal, and there's also touch-sensitive smartphones, which we have now.
Does that justify watching Lain? Does that teach us anything we didn't already know?
Fuck no it doesn't.
>>143083133
Communism is a bad model for society NOT because it doesn't work, but because global social equality is inherently abhorrent. No need to look at history to realize that.
>>143083133
Holodomor was a deliberate attempt to cleanse an ethnic group.
If you want an actual example of communism failing, you should use the Great Leap Forward, an actual example of overzealous policy leading to the deaths of millions of people.
>>143083218
Why is social equality abhorrent?
>>143083218
No, you need to look at history to relize that. People in the future would think that there is a way to do it unless they see how we failed at it before.
>>143083162
No, I mostly feel smug but bored.
>>143083151
Knowing whether something is new or not isn't practical. By practical knowledge I mean skills.
>>143083218
Except there is a need. You're incorporating knowledge of how people work and how they don't work in your reasoning, which is learned through history.
You're actually even worse than i thought. Not only do you hate learning and knowledge, but you just use it all anyway and pretend you thought it up on your own.
>>143083281
Do you actually not understand how pathetic and useless you are?
>>143083255
>Why is social equality abhorrent?
Because nobody wants it and it's boring.
>>143083318
Being useless is a luxury, I'm proud to say that nobody can use my skills to draw benefit from it.
As I said, nothing wrong with being a parasite, as long as you don't delude yourself into thinking you're something else.
>>143083323
Abhorrent probably isn't the word you want to use then. Though I understand your point.
>>143083290
>Except there is a need. You're incorporating knowledge of how people work and how they don't work in your reasoning, which is learned through history.
The way you're describing historical studies is just making it sound like it's an institutionalized form of over-generalizing shitposting like "man, people are dumb".
>>143060448
THIS!
>>143083281
>Knowing whether something is new or not isn't practical. By practical knowledge I mean skills.
Yeah, let's see people inventing the same shit over and over because they forget they already invented it. Or having bad ideas over and over because they forget that idea was bad.
>>143083185
>Does that teach us anything we didn't already know?
>us
It's just you. I've even explained many things I've learned from SEL in this very thread.
You're apparently incapable of learning anything because you've already assumed your conclusions to be true and are ignoring anything that contradicts them. At least you're indicating that you are. Deflecting away from the topic with talk of touch screens? Poor form.
>>143083218
>No need to look at history to realize that.
Look at history and you'll find clear horrifying examples of communism in practice. Lots of them. No need to resort to theory when the evidence is right in front of you.
>>143083255
>If you want an actual example of communism failing, you should use the Great Leap Forward
You're right. That's an even better example. I just like referencing the Holodomor because people will 90% of the time reply with 'you mean the Holocaust?'
>>143083422
>last time some very different people tried that, it failed
>surely we can't possibly try that again, despite the circumstances being different
Historical learning doesn't work the same way individual trial-and-error works.
Utterly shit
>>143064433
>bebop
>garbage
Look everybody, here's a great example of how you can determine that a post is baiting you.
Note how he doesn't say that he doesn't like Bebop. That would be a valid though contested position which could possibly open discourse. But instead he makes the statement that Bebop is objectively "garbage," and therefore of no possible value. And that position is obviously so ridiculous that no rational, thinking human being could maintain it.
Obviously the most logical conclusion is that this poster is not completely deluded. It's possible they actually don't like Bebop, but regardless the hyperbole here is most likely intended to goad the reader into a pointless emotional rebuttal to a position nobody actually holds.
Classic bait, but too easy. 6/10.
Remember lain is always with you. During the PRESENT DAY, PRESENT TIME, anywhere. Don't forget about her.
>>143083437
You didn't learn anything. You were shown fictional events that just HAPPENED to resemble real things.
>Look at history and you'll find clear horrifying examples of communism in practice. Lots of them. No need to resort to theory when the evidence is right in front of you.
People will call those "failed" or "false" communism, and they're probably right. What I'm saying is that even true utopian communism is horrible.
>>143083536
Saying that you don't like something isn't a position on an issue, it's a statement about yourself. It's not really something that can be debated.
Unlike the objective quality of a work of art. Even if you can't reach a conclusion, there's at least something to debate.
>>143083583
>You didn't learn anything. You were shown fictional events that just HAPPENED to resemble real things.
By that logic it's impossible to learn anything from books or television programs in general. Stop humiliating yourself.
>>143083502
If you don't know about why they failed then you'll likely make the exact same mistakes. You can't know WHY they failed unless you learn about the history of when they failed. You understand that much at least.
>>143083583
>People will call those "failed" or "false" communism, and they're probably right.
And yet people today are trying to push for the exact same brand of communism, all because they lack the historical knowledge of why that failed.
>>143083697
That really doesn't invalidate that logic. It just invalidates books and television.
But even if I were to admit that books and television actually teach stuff to people, it still wouldn't make Lain's predictions more than just guesses that carry zero epistemic value.
The creators of this show just happened to guess stuff.
Big fucking whoop.
>>143083732
Yeah but learning why THESE PARTICULAR attempts failed is barely relevant to the present situation, if at all.
>>143083801
No, they're still pushing for them because they think that if they succeeded, the result would be good, when it in fact wouldn't be.
>>143083829
>books are invalid learning tools
Are you okay? I mean, are you drunk off of your face or high as a kite or something? Maybe go and get some rest then read what you wrote later on.
>>143083942
Some books give you instructions that work because the guys who wrote them knew they'd work if you followed them. That's as close to teaching as books get.
>>143060384
ITT:
point
---------
head
>what is present day
>what is present time
>>143064662
>There's people who actually think that boring piece of shit is better than Lain
Why?
>>143084211
Because of muh comatose dream theory
>>143084211
They're a sucker for angsty nihilism and dark atmospheres, didn't mind the incredibly slow pacing, and possibly recognised the clever and symbolic aesthetic design of the surface world and its inhabitants.
Having said that, I didn't really like Tex all that much. From the surface world onwards was great, but it was a slog to get to that point.
>>143084280
The climax was good, but it didn't felt it had a deeper meaning besides what we actually see on screenI also found the drama between Ichise and Ran to be forced and stupid
>>143084377You and me both.
