Starting with West Germans this time.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpp208_pink-floyd-the-final-cut-film-complete-1983_music
Official Schwarzesmarken soundtrack by Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is THE soundtrack, comrades.
He`s now working on his next album about interdimensional matress travel - when he`s not busy calling out the jew.
Also, commissar Gretel and Martin were lucky to attend to the last concert of the Puhdys https://youtu.be/7FCWNS02jP4 [Embed]
But you can't forget the classics(if fucking shlomo didn`t block them where you live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxITXgetyQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6ZtGpSH4g
I want to fuck Theono homo
>>141634257
>>141634257
He's a pretty good looking guy I'll give him that.
>>141634257
Get in line, I suppose?
>>141634687
>you'll never give Pham a Phamily
>>141634257
Edel, jr. Plz go.
Get yourself tested
>>141634725
It hurts, this feel.
It's so hard to watch - she desperately wants love, but she is so caring about everyone that she will sacrifice her own happiness until she has nothing left.
>>141634978
If it helps odds are she may survive in at least one route in Martyrs.
>>141635091
But will someone tell her she too deserves love?
It's interesting, isn't it? She is somewhat like another girl we know, who desired more than anything to be told the same.
>>141635844
>But will someone tell her she too deserves love?
>It's interesting, isn't it? She is somewhat like another girl we know, who desired more than anything to be told the same.
I can't do it, its too cryptic. I can think of at least two girls you might be talking about. And I don't know if she's gonna get romance, but she deserves to live.
>>141634891
Alex did plenty wrong, didn't he.
>>141635844
The difference between Pham and someone like Sylwia or Lise or even Iris, is Pham isn't broken. She's hurts sometimes, and she's been hurt before, but so far as I know, she's never been emotionally damaged the same way that a lot of the other girls have. She doesn't need Theo to rescue her (except in a very literal sense related to physical survival) and I think, if Pham ever made it out of the DDR alive, She'd find someone special. I could definitely see her falling in love with a hypothetical crew chief of her TSF, and her biggest struggle being working around commissioned/enlisted antifraternization regulations.
I also think she's the one who would be most likely to bang her crew chief, since I think that, given the opportunity, she'd basically adopt her ground crew.
>>141636200
1983 was not a good time to be a futt bucker
>>141637040
At least Schweppenstette did nothing wrong.
>>141637072
He could have spent more time developing a relationship with his son.
Best TSF. Takemifags need not apply.
>>141636190
Ah you're right, that's a third then.I was thinking of Beato actually.
>>141636215
But Pham is broken in her own way, isn't she? Her heart is so big, and her kindness so vast, that she feels she has to shoulder so many burdens. She's very much a self-martyr when it comes to love, kindness, and happiness for all - she is the person who would burn her own life out a thousand times over if it meant putting a smile on people's faces. She, more than many others, understands that the last lights must never die. All the more so in these dark times.
It's why I adore her, why I FEEL her in my very soul. It's because I realize, I have been and will be, what it means to feel this. To try to make everyone's day better, make everyone's hearts whole again - ignoring the cold dead hunger inside, crying desperately for that one thing we all need.
That hunger, it just gets quieter over time. It never really goes away though. It never will.
>>141637510
Phamfag, this has been said many times already, you truly are like your waifu. So you need to cheer up a bit as well, its what she would want.
altered fable sure is fun heh
too bad it stopped just there . oh well
If there's no KS update this week I'm ending it.
>>141638331
Sure thing buddy.
>>141638331
Katawa Shoujo dropped like three years ago
>>141638021
It's what she would want, yes. But I'm not as good as her. Maybe that is also why I adore her. I aspire to be more like her.
>>141637433
But Stella would say otherwise, no?
>>141638298
>that smile
rape?
Who /NVA/ here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CC7i6brEI
>>141639384
Is that Beatrix?
>>141633478
posting best girls.
>>141639433
Posting
If the EXTRA beta doesn't come out today i'm ending it!
>>141639433
Lise has finally been served her just desserts for all the long-distance running she has put you through. She has shin splints, and some minor bruising on the meniscus on her right knee, though the doctor told her that is nothing to worry about. Still, she has been advised not to run for at least six weeks. Right now, she's pouting about this twist of fate. However, she's pouting with a pair of harbinger fingerless gloves on, and a towel draped over her shoulders. You've decided that it is time to introduce her to the wild and wonderous world of picking up heavy things and then putting them down again, over and over.
"What are those things?"
"Those are kettlebells. You can use them for weighted pull-ups, since they don't flop over when you try and loop the belt chain through them like with normal plates."
"That seems like a pretty pointless and limited use. what are they really for?"
"Getting stupid people to sign up for gym memberships?"
You shrug your shoulders and smile unevenly. You're sure kettlebells have other uses, but god bless you, you can't think of any. Lise points to the row of machines
"What are those for?"
"Those are definitely for getting stupid people to sign up for gym memberships." At least you can be confident on this one.
"So what are you even supposed to do here?"
"Free weights."
"I... I'm not going to become one of those freakish looking muscle women, am I?"
"You don't have nearly enough testosterone for that. Those women are roiding."
"...Oh. Maybe I'm not ready for resistance training anyway. Knees and all that."
You grin to yourself, trying to hide from Lise the true nature of the device you are about to inflict on her.
"In that case, why don't you try an ergometer? This is a Concept 2 model C. It's the best cardio ever invented."
"The best? Are you sure?"
"Of Course I'm sure. Why don't you try it? 2000 Meters, maybe?"
PACT PRIDE WORLDWIDE
>>141639639
Those Slavs were made for breeding, even if they were designed for war!
>>141639682
I want to combine our collective commie genes with Cryska and make many beautiful Euroasian babies!
>>141639498
Gambatte Lise, you have discovered a different but equally painful world of pain.
>>141640043
>with Cryska
>not with Inia
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sqayrXm.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>141639188
COMMUNIST INVADER DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL.
![7543643_11875[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/aonGi9D.jpg "7543643_11875[1].jpg")
>>141639639
Vladimir Sandek is not amused.
>>141640067
Cut him some slack, he couldn't resist the Austismoe
>>141640043
But Cryska is expired goods,
>>141640133
Us chinks are used to getting damaged goods. I think I might even prefer a little breaking in, especially when it comes to my Mabu-Ravus. Broken girls are cute! CUTE!
Even if she is a secondary Gretel will always be the main heroine of my heart
>>141640133
I'm sure we could find some Tang to restore her to health.
>>141639449
Well, one of them anyways.
Her and Theo were cute.
>>141639498
>/fit/ weighs in on Schwarzesmarken
I like it!
Also, this would normally be a time for a joke on the steroid taking communist Olympic womens teams!
>>141640308
Which will win? Autismoe, or cloudcuckoolander-moe?
I eat you're waifu
>>141639498
>gloves
GAAAAAAAAAAAAY
>>141640858
D`83 jokes are for patricians.
>>141640858
Autismoe for me pleasethet're both the same shit anyways, just pick between pedobait and tittymonsterbait
>>141640858
>cloudcuckoolander-moe
I'll take this one
>>141641452
>If I want a mecha game there's always Armored Core.
It isn't a mecha game, it's just a quake3 with mecha skin. Real mecha simulators are very scarce.
>I've got no love for that series. If anything I feel bad for you guys, because no one fucking takes Muv-Luv seriously outside of your faggots.
O.K., 2 deep for u
>>141641452
1. we're not here for the mechas, hell most of us admit they're a dumb weapon in the first place.
2. what do you care if we take it seriously? if anything you're far more pathetic coming over trying to start shit on our little corner of the board for shits and giggles, or worse, cause you think this is a serious matter that needs correcting.
3.Aramored Core WAS good, It began to suck with 4 and only continued sucking with For Answer, 5 and Verdict DaySilent Line a best! A BEST!!
>>141641639
>2 deep for u
Not him,but how the fuck muv-luv is deep
>>141641672
>hell most of us admit they're a dumb weapon in the first place
But they're fun, and isn't that what really matters?
>>141639498
>"I... I'm not going to become one of those freakish looking muscle women, am I?"
>"You don't have nearly enough testosterone for that. Those women are roiding."
I KNEW IT
>>141641934
>But they're fun
Yamato damashii is not fun after some time.
>and isn't that what really matters?
Not really. Sometimes you just want to watch a soviet tank battalion on a meeting engagement.
Something which we have never seen.
>>141642269
>The real MfS insignia and not that ML abomination
It almost compensated for the ugly ass face they gave her.
>>141633478
I wish the real Germany would be this flamboyant.
>>141642325
what are lederhosen for 200 trebek
>>141642685
>that hair downstairs
>>141641639
That is a nice chart. Though it's still funny how only Japan manages to get aircraft it never had historically or based on a real world craft.
I like to hope Koukhi will basically say at some point tons more countries had their own aircraft/TSF programs that bore out in this world as opposed to our own.
>Look in corner
>A-12
Muh dik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7z8Id9eJx0
>>141640116
To be fair,it's like watching his sister grope his sister.
>>141639188
Gommies are dead and over with, don't you know? Turns out, their cultural marxism was what posed a longer term existential threat to us, not their brainless states backed by their supposedly mighty military machines.
>>141643462
>posed
It`s fucking you in the ass with a rainbow-colored dragon dildo right now.
A quick thought, since a TSF design of the J-XX is already drawn now, and adaptation of the Shinshin is confirmed as a TSF too, how long until Cookie decides to draw the AMCA? Then again, I suppose he may have to draw the PAK-FA first, though it doesn't seem the Su-47 was only a demonstrator in the MLverse.
>>141643686
There are quite a number of planes that didn't make it to TSFs or TSAs for that matter. It might take some years until non Jap and non Yank planes make it to ML.
Who removed >>141641452???
So Kyoko rapresent Kawasaki in the big 5 shogunate family?
Do I really have to play Muv Luv Extra and Unlimited to play Alternative?
>>141644784
Yes, don't be a little bitch.
>>141644694
Maybe, who knows.
>>141644694
>Creepy soldier-kun on the helmet
Fuck
>>141644979
He is always there lately. Check Latrova's handbag.
>>141644784
What the point in playing alt without unlimited?
And in extra you're fine with just Meiya and Kei routes.
Also these threads are horrible
>fanfics
>same posts spam.
kys
>>141644784
no /a/non, do it.
>>141646052
>>141646052
>>141646140
Mmmmhhhmmm, these delicious Senseis.
>>141646234
soldier-kun, stop
>>141646262
No, senseis taste the best!
>>141639433
how can 2 girls be so perfect?
>>141646387
Because the BETA must be defeated at all costs.
>>141643546
Regrettably, yes
>>141647072
Right, so we need to execute these people and find someone who actually knows what they're doing.
>>141647119
So nobody? Because competent grunts aren't necessarily great strategists Anon.
>tfw no Yugoslavia Front VN
>>141647602
Don't worry Anon, I'm sure they fought like lions and the less of the retarded ML politics we get the better.
>>141648406
>implying Tito will allow any nutty politics in his state
He'd just go Stalin Lite on them.
I wish there was something we could talk about.
>>141650010
How do you like your Mabu Rabus? Bloodier than this? or less?
>>141650010
We could do a poll on opinions of how the routes for Martyrs are gonna work out.
>>141650104
>now there is Iris fig
>still no Beato in sight.
>>141650077
>Beatrix's penetration CGs in a couple of months
It's going to be a good day.
>>141650129
She has a daki and a ton of posters though.
>>141650232
Yeah, but I'm talking about figs. And aren't most of those posters and the daki, limited editions made for events only?
Type-00 Takemikazuchi is the best TSF there is, no substitutions, arguments, or debates.
>>141650333
They're definitely cheaper at their events, but you can still pick them up elsewhere. It's not like the figs aren't for specialty events either:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B01B3S1T8Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&keywords=%E3%83%99%E3%82%A2%E3%83%88%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BB%E3%83%96%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A1&qid=1463510084&redirect=true&sr=8-2
>>141650495
Seems to me that this guy >>141637433 wants to argue though.
>>141650010
Do you want to talk about how it would be a great idea to extend then intial first line of defence which is 80 kilometers away from the oder-nesser line and consist of landmines to 160 kilometers and have 3 mobile divisional battle groups (2 tank divisions and 1 motorised rifle division with 5 times the normal amount of ATGM and anti tank guns.) and have these fight inside the former polish territory to slow down and wear down the BETA attack groups before they reach the first line of defence?
You may wonder how these divisions would be supplied and the answer is simple, Mi-6/A HOOK heavy duty transport helicopters with Mi-17/HIP H medium transport helicpters and several forward operatin bases located in good positions that are easy to defend and is not in the way of the BETA main attack route.
You can also have TSF squadrons support these divisions with the help of Attack helicopter regiments for maximum combined arms warfare.
What/who could make adult Beatrix pout like pic related?
>>141650788
You know it.
>>141639498
>shin splints
Oh goddamn, that takes me back to my time in the military. So many little bitches complaining about how a ruck march would give them shin splints.
>>141650788
She shouldn't sweep her sidebangs behind her ears. It doesn't really suit her, even if she does have a very lickable nape
>>141650753
I think that a joint Czechoslovakian-East German-Polish defence line at the Vistula and San rivers would have been preferable, had it been build before the fall of Poland, since its only 50% or so longer and could have pooled the resources of three countries instead of each Pact Nation trying to hold alone. Hell, holding Silesia by using the upper Oder as well, could have worked better than the original, since it shortens the line overall and gives both the CSSR and the DDR some defence in depth, even if only along a part of the front.
>>141650788
If Jürgen's dead, nothing. Except perhaps a replacement.
How come Kai Shiden is always the asshole?
>>141650788
So if Juergen was the Char of Muv-Luv, does that make Beatrix the Haman?
>>141651148
Vistula and san rivers are good locations but sadly it was not built before the fall.
And your example of the holding silesia is also pretty good. It may also give more morale to the troops since they are fighting with another warsaw pact nation whom still exists instead of being alone on their own frontline.
But better defensive fortifications wont on the long run hold it without a offensive manouvers. But it would greatly benefit the situation in europe.
>>141639498
You and Lise are in the back of the gym, having a race to see who can row 2000m the fastest. You already showed Lise the basics of using a rowing machine, that is, Legs, Back, Arms, then Arms, Back, Legs. It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it. You settle into a rhythm, start counting your strokes, and tune out the world around you. Lise is not so similarly inclined. She's wailing away on the machine, which is set to maximum resistance. Her eyes are locked in rapt attention on the behind of some cardio bunny who is using a stairmaster several rows in front of you. Luckily for you, all of this stimulation does not translate itself to good rowing form, and she's using her legs, arms and back to pull the chain all at once, instead of isolating the three groups. Her rowing is erratic, and her breathing doesn't seem to line up with anything particular position of her body.
As you notch 2000m, Lise is still barely at 900m. You cover your mouth to suppress a grin.
"I win."
Lise looks up at you, exhausted. You put your hand on your shoulder. "We still need to work on your form."
She nods, and gets up from the ergometer. That can come later. For now, you head to your respective locker rooms, then drop into the hot tub for a nice relaxing warm-down.
>>141651670
So much about what could have been, and not about what really happened. Its sad, but competent planning is a rarity in ML in general.
But then again, the focus was usually on the characters and not the plot. Which is one of the weaknesses of SM, it tries to focus on the plot as well. But in order for everything to play out the way it did, almost everyone must have taken the worst option possible.
>>141651919
SM is extremely character driven though.
>>141651978
But the plot is somewhat hard to swallow. A single speech by the daughter of a Unperson brings down the Wall, a State Security apparatus that's basically feral and is composed of stupidly evil personnel and is incapable of doing its actual job, etc.
The characters are fine, but what's happening seems to overshadow them enough to make Watanabe give us his take on the whole matter.
Still enjoyed it though and looking forward to the translation of the LNs and VNs, but there are parts where you just have to enjoy it without thinking too hard.
>>141651909
Stop the stupid gym meme and get to fucking running in a forest like a proper German soldier.
>>141651909
I see she still has a few insecurities to iron out. Hope the bunny made it out of the locker room with all her teeth still in her skull.
>>141652273
Oh du schöner Westerwald,
>>141652273
or burying "beware moose" signs in beaches
![[Commie] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [4FC957A8].mkv_snapshot_14.20_[2016.04.10_19.07.47].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rCwgm16.jpg "[Commie] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [4FC957A8].mkv_snapshot_14.20_[2016.04.10_19.07.47].jpg")
>>141652230
The shitty part is that Hiroki should know better since he's a huge history nerd. The stasi really do bring down the whole narrative and turn it into a farce though. How an organization composed almost entirely of reckless psycopaths who must hurt others and don't even bother to hide shit like death/concentration camps for undesirables (in post-WWII communist Germany of all things) attained such power despite acting outside of the state in the face of much more pragmatic organizations is difficult to swallow, nor why 1/5 of the population would even want to help or inform for them.
>>141651919
But lets assume that we are forced to start from the current oder-nesser line and that there is no joint defensive line with the czech em's.
My plan should be possible and workable.
You could have two major mine lines, one which is 80 kilometers away from the line and then another one at 160 kilometers.
If a mine free land route is wanted into poland then it could be placed on the upper part of the oder-nesser line. If the BETA try to go there then East German Navy would be able to pound them.
>>141652547
History nerd does not really equal to understanding why history went X instead of Y or Z.
He may like reading history and think it is cool but if he understands why things happend is another thing.
Woah, she is really pissed. She should drink some tea.
>>141652230
>>141652547
Retarded evil villains aren't always bad and can be a lot of fun, but characters like Beatrix really do clash with the overall tone of SM. SM takes itself too seriously to have over the top evil caricatures. It's why characters like pic related may be great in Hellsing, but absolutely ridiculous in something like a Miyazaki film.
>>141652230
>A single speech by the daughter of a Unperson brings down the Wall
ever hear of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back"
>a State Security apparatus that's basically feral and is composed of stupidly evil personnel and is incapable of doing its actual job
This is mostly the fault of the anime, where the Stasi are nothing more than moustache-twirlling cartoon villains. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that the VN/LN Stasi aren't evil, but most of the incompetence stems from the butchering done by the anime, which they don't care to try and make it a legit adaptation since they're using it as a marketing tool to bring in secondaries into the fold, so they can sell them the VN/LN as well as figmas and all other sorts of crap that fools with too much money and no impulse control will happily pay for.
>looking forward to the translation of the LNs and VNs, but there are parts where you just have to enjoy it without thinking too hard.
Par for the course with Muv Luv in general. There's a lot of shit you're just better off ignoring.
>>141652547
>>141652716
Oh wait.
Hiroki is the one that wrote the LN yes. But he is not the one behind the anime but that is Watanabe. The guy that did not know the stasi was real.
>>141653056
Yeah, Watanabe is the director and guy who though the stasi was made up until Hiroki corrected him.
>>141652893
>Figmas
I wish. We're getting Kotobukiya and that's about it. I really hope they decide to come out with a Lise nendoroid, though, it would be amazing.
>>141652716
I am not saying that its not possible, defence in depth is preferable to that rigid line they have, so many lives wasted in the trenches, when they could be better used.
>>141652547
Right on the money.
>>141652734
There are many reasons why Beatofags like me exist anon. And one of them is the opinion that she is not, or at least wasn't meant to be the non plus ultra evil sadist and mass murderer some believe her to be. Not saying she isn't evil though.
>>141652893
>ever hear of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back"
I have. I doubt that a single speech could do that in a totalitarian dictatorship, under the conditions shown in story. The wall fell in RL do to a speech. But only because of many, many factors paving the way.
>>141653206
I thought you guys mostly liked her because she's hot and voiced by Yukarin.
>>141653129
It would be a waste of a design perfectly made for a nendoroid if they didn't.
>>141653340
I am not a fan of Tamura's voice, its usually too squeaky for my taste. And no matter how hot, at some point your morals kick in. But that's just me, and you have to remember, there were Beatofags long before Tamura voiced her.
>>141653523
Usually, yeah, but Tamura's sexy voice is incredible.
>>141653608
It is. http://www.age-soft.co.jp/Product/sm/wac/index.htm?process=7&escurl=../character10_esc.html
And one of the anime's flaws is that it toned down that charm she is supposed to have. But well, its too late now, and we still have the VN.
![[Commie] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [4FC957A8].mkv_snapshot_00.18_[2016.05.15_11.16.56].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OwTeOx7.jpg "[Commie] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [4FC957A8].mkv_snapshot_00.18_[2016.05.15_11.16.56].jpg")
>>141653733
Yeah, I don't think she got as into her role as she did for the VN.
https://www.twitch.
tv/planetwarrior/v/
38971154?t=05m10s
Too rough, not enough elegance or smoothness in the anime's take.
>>141653340
>>141653523
>>141653608
Yukarin has a great voice, and obviously people are more tolerant of Beatrix than if she looked like Danny DeVito, but part of the appeal of Beatofaggotry is that she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a vicious cycle of escalating violence that she can occasionally steer but is unable to stop, and you just want to steal her away from the nightmare she's trapped in.I'm actually a Lisefag, btw
>>141653872
Iris sounds way hotter too.
>>141633478
Yuimouto is love
Yuimouto is life
>>141653890
I noticed Lise seemed to have a deeper voice too. Not sure the reason but they made her more mature in looks and voice.
>>141653890
>she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a vicious cycle of escalating violence that she can occasionally steer but is unable to stop, and you just want to steal her away from the nightmare she's trapped in.
Theres a reason they say Beato and Lisefags are in bed together.
>>141654014
The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
>>141653890
>>141654165
>Theres a reason they say Beato and Lisefags are in bed together.
Indeed.
>>141654266
Kohaku please.
>>141653890
>the nightmare she's trapped in
And the primary position, I suppose, comes from the nightmare she has decided to trap everyone else in.
>>141655232
>position
Opposition.
>>141653890
>Beato apologists
She was just a bitch, deal with that.
Cryska, Inia and Yui are my waifus.
>>141655608
Correct
>>141655608
>>141655667
'tis evening in murrica I see.
>>141655703
it's evening in canada to, eh
>>141655232
>>141655314
Someone said last thread that if she let all the pain she went through change her into a monster, then she deserved all that pain.
>>141655608
Yeah. That seems to be her role. Beatrix is a prime example that beauty is only skin deep. She's largely acknowledged as the hottest girl in and out of story, but is extremely ugly on the inside (I guess that's where the Wearwolf name comes from).
Give me someone like Katia or Iris, who may not be as physically attractive, but have beautiful personalities.
>>141655765
Is Ellen the greatest tease and bantzmaster left after Alt. V?
>>141655817
>blandness is beauty
Or did I read you wrong?
>>141655703
I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of the Malfags are Americans. It sucks that they have such a shit anime community.
>>141655703
I'm actually europoor
>>141655817
>iris
>not attractive
Beatrix didn't become bitch after Jurgen death.
It was the trigger,but she did it by herself.
>inb4 she saved girls for PTSD battalion
All she needed were loyal subordinates, she didn't care about them all
>>141655765
Waaaait. Aren`t alternatives all ages?
>>141655817
>if she let all the pain she went through change her into a monster, then she deserved all that pain.
What a horrifying outlook to have on life.
>>141655703
What, I can't have a negative opinion of Beatrix?
Sorry, but after reading all of SM and BiS I still found her to be a bad human being.
>>141656216
don'i lie you didn't read it and BiS isn't even finished.
>>141656216
you finished reading a series that hasn't been completed yet?
>>141656053
Beatrix was always evil. She was born fucked up, and I think that if it wasn't Jurgen and the stasi, it would have been something else that would have made her snap and become a serial killer. I don't think Beatrix is really capable of love or true empathy, even for people she thinks she loves like Jurgen.
>>141656132
Lise went through far, far worse than her but still managed to hold onto a shred of decency while Beatrix fully embraced evil. I think that how she behaves in SM is who she truly is.
>>141656216
Yeah, she's an absolute cunt. Nothing really that tragic about her in my opinion. Her death was a good thing and it was extremely cathartic seeing it happen.
>>141656303
>>141656304
He could mean all of BiS up to this point.
>>141656216
>Sorry, but after reading all of SM and BiS I still found her to be a bad human being.
If you can read Jap, the you can enlighten us here with proper evidence to back you up.
>>141656328
Same goes for you, chap.
>>141656368
he could but more porbable is that he is just lying.
>>141656368
That's exactly what I said
When you say you've read all there is, it's obvious I mean all that's available
Her cute self in her teenage years doesn't erase everything she will do in the future sadly
>No. Iris bro didn't like the DDR and she's mad butthurt over Iri existing and being better at being a pilot Basically Beatrix is a shit human being all around, and that's before we get into the torture porn
>No, she's just butthurt her brother was a revolutionist and swim with sharks you're a shark thought processs
>Is that anything new at all? She's a gloryhound who wants to exterminate all the possible GDR defectors from the DDR, she literally killed MCs family as far as he's concerned being a STASI cunt, Axmann
>She's a rappist who fucked Pham and Sylwia and wants to fuck Katia too.
>>141656453
>Her cute self in her teenage years doesn't erase everything she will do in the future sadly
No, it just means SM is badly written and that Hiroki is a hack. Esdese's backstory was much more believable for a budding psycho than Beatrix's. Trying to make Beatrix sympathetic/waifuable is stupid and goes against the whole point of her character.
>>141656453
>When you say you've read all there is, it's obvious I mean all that's available
No, That is specifically not what you said, and it is not something that could be reasonably inferred from the context because it directly contradicts what you said before. You've been caught in a lie.
>Sorry, but after reading all of SM and BiS I still found her to be a bad human being.
>>141656686
You're just nitpicking because I said something bad about Beato
In any normal situation what I said stands true
>>141656559
Didn't Hiroki claim in a tweet that Beatrix was like a daughter to him? Or am I remembering wrong?
>>141656393
Wasn't she going to have Katia raped in the VNs, then try to kill Theo, Pham, and the rest when it didn't go through?
How about sabatoging the NVA to produce more casualties to make her rescue look better, or not helping Kurt's unit hold the last fort before Berlin despite having a unit of TSFs dedicated to keeping the 666th from saving Katia?
>>141656728
You are a liar who cannot keep his story strait. You clearly intended to argue from a point of authority, but were not familiar enough with the subject material to be convincing.
>>141656806
Buddy, don't ask me, I'm the one asking for proof for all claims made. You lot, meaning the fanatical Beatrix haters, rarely come with any evidence beyond your own interpretations of widely known, but necessarily seen events. If you can deliver evidence please do, it would finally kill this endlessly repeating clusterfuck that is the debate on Beatrix's nature.
>>141656806
>Wasn't she going to have Katia raped in the VNs
No evidence to suggest it but her Werewolf battalion being in the area probably means that lead-belly in Neuenhagen was keeping an eye on her for Beato
>How about sabotaging the NVA to produce more casualties to make her rescue look better
Yes that was during the Maelstrom but it wasn't stated that it was her original plan but she went along with it since it advanced her goals
The Nuremberg defense isn't a suitable defense in court though
>not helping Kurt's unit hold the last fort before Berlin despite having a unit of TSFs dedicated to keeping the 666th from saving Katia
Yup she prioritized capturing Katia right after Theo and Annette got her out of the fort
>>141656860
Whatever you say Beatofag
>>141656735
I think someone else said that Beatrix seemed like the author's daughter and Hiroki agreed with his post.
>>141657017
Exactly, she's as bad as Axmann, and has possibly even surpassed him by the time SM has started.
>>141657083
Wording it like that makes it sound like she was based off his daughter. Perhaps its the way Hiroki describes Beatrix that makes him sound affectionate towards her. If there had been a clear vision of her character between every source she appears in (LN/BiS/anime) then a lot of this back and forth could be avoided.
Speaking of fathers I can't help but imagine what it would be like to be Mr. Hohenstein. I hope his death was quick, I don't want to think of what it would be like to know my daughter went through what Lise did after she was captured.
>>141657151
I wouldn't say as bad as Axmann since she doesn't actively ruin the life of her female henchmen
>>141657017
>>141657151
Wasn't her plan largely pointless too? It's not like Europe needed East Germany to sacrifice itself to evacuate. They did just fine getting everyone, even the East Germans, out of Europe. So really, all the death and evil she unleashed didn't serve a purpose. She can't even claim to be a greater good utilitarian like Yuuko and is in the end just another tinpot dictator wannabe.
>>141657443
Yeah, but she was basically trying to do on a national scale what Axmann did to Lise, which makes her worse in my mind.
>>141657491
This implies hindsight anon, we can't assume she knew everything we know, even if her plan was ultimately useless.
>>141657557
Using them as cannon fodder and whoring them out and breaking them, differ quite a bit, even if I think I can follow your argument, that in the end they end being someone's expendable tools.
>>141657443
The delight she takes in their suffering would say otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if she had a system going on with Axmann where she provides him with people, he has his fun, then he gives the broken people back to her for her to play with.
>>141657491
This is where "whats and ifs" start getting thrown around but I'm on the side that her plan was ultimately pointless and optimistic
It's not that East Germany had to sacrifice itself for the sake of the evacuation, it was that she was trying to set an example to the UN and other nations that a country ruled by might and fear would do better militarily against the BETA.
In doing so she hoped other countries would adopt the same form of iron rule and then the supposed increase in military performance against the BETA would save the planet.
But I think her plan was far-fetched and that no other major nation would follow her example
>>141657557
No matter how much I dislike her I find it hard to believe that she would condone something like that
But under her policy of iron rule by the Stasi I imagine she would give in to reason and accept that said practice would continue no matter what she did.
>>141657710
Please don't use the anime Beato as a reference
They still are enemies and she hates how Axemann does his job
No matter how much I don't like her the anime ver is off the charts
>>141657706
An idiot could see that her plan wasn't going to work. That a 15 year old girl could figure out how to have her cake and eat it too tells me that either Beatrix was either malicious or a retard.
>>141657812
>This is where "whats and ifs" start getting thrown around but I'm on the side that her plan was ultimately pointless and optimistic
>It's not that East Germany had to sacrifice itself for the sake of the evacuation, it was that she was trying to set an example to the UN and other nations that a country ruled by might and fear would do better militarily against the BETA.
>In doing so she hoped other countries would adopt the same form of iron rule and then the supposed increase in military performance against the BETA would save the planet.
>But I think her plan was far-fetched and that no other major nation would follow her example
That's even more retarded. So she was advocating for global fascism and the destruction of everything good in the world. This right here is why she's worse than Axmann. It's like comparing someone like Pol Pot to the BTK murderer. I don't know how anyone could love her. As vindictive as it is, I'm glad she lost Jurgen; she never deserved to be happy.
>>141657441
I can't help but wonder what happened to them, if Theo was the first to break, and Lise was the last, it's implied that the others survived as well. Maybe he and his wife spent the next 5 years putting together tank transmissions in a prison factory or something. (The Nazis actually did this. It was a really dumb idea. Something like half of all Panthers were deliberately sabotaged in one way or another)
If that's the case, It's probably that he has no idea what happened to her. The next time he'd hear anything about her is when he sees the picture from operation Neptune, which would at least give him the totally wrong impression that everything is OK.
>>141657812
>No matter how much I don't like her the anime ver is off the charts
What don't you like about the anime version compared to the LN. I hear that the anime version is actually nicer in some respects (like not torturing Iris).
>>141651670
>"Are we...are we cucks Sibowski?"
>"N-no, Schultz...we're not cucks..."
>>141658275
Her whole demeanor is just more sadistic/cruel and especially noticeable in her interactions with her subordinates
I guess what set the tone was how in the first episode she executed civilians with a grin which is not something I imagined her doing anytime before the rebellion and how she seemed in cahoots with Axemann
>>141655703
But the Beatohaters usually come out of the woodwork when most Murrilards are asleep. Americans on here at least like Beato, and some waifu her hard.
So it's either some random Asian punk, a Europoor, or one of the few Mericans holding the night watch.
>>141655817
>She's largely acknowledged as the hottest girl in and out of story, but is extremely ugly on the inside
Yeah. By you giant flaming faggot. Now shut it with your fucking attempted meme already.
Why are Katiafags such terrible human beings?
>>141656070
>Maaaaybe
>>141657812
>>141658003
Hmmm, seeing you two in fight, is kind of fun, but ultimately, there is a great flaw in >>141658003 's argument. Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction. And even if Beatrix was a dumb, delusional, evil bitch had her plan delivered better results it would have been preferable in those circumstances. And its very hard to believe that among tens of millions, no, hundreds of millions, one naïve fifteen year old was the only one to think up of unifying Germany and evacuating its population.
>>141658563
What are you talking about. Most of the Beatrixhate seems to be between 3:00 - 8:00 in the evening Eastern Time.
>>141658366
You cant cuck the willing.
But you can cuck Poland.
>>141658660
You know how Germany or Japan weren't going to surrender to the Allies despite losing bad; change the surrender to evacuate and the Allies to BETA. Selfish leaders will sacrifice millions if it allows them to stay in power for just a few more days.
>>141658465
The anime seems to just be a concentrated take on her. You said yourself that she's your most hated person in SM. So what they brushed off some of her more extraneous characteristics; her cruelty and sadism are the core of her character and they are what defines her.
>>141658796
Both Japan and Germany surrendered and the Allies never had the intention to slaughter every single Jap and German. You are pulling shit out of your ass and you know it.
>>141658660
>Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction
You're thinking like that because you're imaging it from a position of power
You didn't live in the Stasi controlled DDR of their universe and clearly those civilians didn't want to either.
Now imagine if currently free people suddenly had their rights taken away by a secret police and overbearing government.
It wouldn't work out either here or there, extinction or no extinction.
After all as the saying goes, better dead than red.
>>141658909
Hitler wanted Germany to fight on until it was totally destroyed. So did the Japanese nationalist. It was only after Hitler died and that the Emperor spoke out against the military junta that surrender was acheived.
>>141658660
The sort of fascism she advocated is the edgelord type that kidnaps children and breaks them of their morality.
>>141658909
I imagine he is talking about how military leaders were trying to keep japan in the war once the emperor had decided to surrender already
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/08/06/national/history/coup-emperors-broadcast-never/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident
>>141658563
>Why are Katiafags such terrible human beings?
Why do Beatrixfags support such a terrible human being? Besides, Katia deserves to be loved. Unlike the others, she doesn't have the shield they have to ward off the horrors of East Germany.
>>141659229
If Katia was the one carrying out Beato's plan
I wonder if I'd support hermaybe
>>141656132
It's up to people to rise above their trauma. Most of the characters had terrible lives but tried to be good people. She didn't.
>>141657812
Doesn't she hate totalitarianism?
>>141659494
In her younger days yes, but she changed it around that if they were going to use her she'd use them instead.
So she's using what she hated/hates as a tool now to achieve her plan.
>>141658680
It's this one very vocal guy, yes (or as he's known, Eugenicsfag, because he apparently seems to believe Beatrix was born evil and should have been snuffed out in her cradle), or two guys, one saying she should have been killed as a baby, and one droning on and on about how she's the prime example of beauty is only skin deep, yada yada.
During Europoor time, it's more the atmosphere just seems to be oppressive against Beatofags. If said faggot above stays up during that time, he gets a much more rapt audience, sadly. Though to their credit, not always.
>>141657710
And now we're moving into imagining cruel things about someone solely because you hate them.
Congratulations faggot, you are now like what you imagine Beatrix to be. I hope you feel proud of yourself.
Reminder that Katia was stupid enough to defect to Stasi controlled East Germany because muh unity
Hiroki seems to really hate Muv-Luv. Everything in SM seems to be a dark parody of ML.
Beatrix is totally wrong on everything. Like nothing she does or thinks is right, and her whole ideal that sometimes what is moral isn't always the best choice and that progress requires sacrifice is shown to be a sham. Meanwhile, Katia's naive idealism is shown to be the correct path, as it saves the most people and leads to the happiest possible ending. This is contrasted against Yuuko's pragmatism or the Valkyries who believe heavily in "making your death count".
True love is also shown very negatively. Lise and Beatrix experience true love in the way that Sumika or Meiya have and are worst people for it. Someone like Gretel, however, who doesn't devote herself totally to Martin and has a much more down to Earth romance with him (so much so that most people don't even know that they're in a relationship) is shown to be the better path. Furthermore, the main heroine and the character held up as the example for the rest, Irisdina, doesn't believe in that sort of foolish romance and put the MC at arms distance. She doesn't even give him a kiss when he tells her how much he loves her in the finale.
>>141659706
She was looking for info on her family, actually.
>>141659706
You know, for a beacon of hope shining out into the darkness, that girl is not very bright.
>>141659706
Reminder that no one cares cause everyone in the damn franchise has held the idiot beach ball at some point.
>>141659920
>>141659941
Yeah well she ended up been the "spiritual pillar" of a revolution who ended the DDR
![t4lk3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/N5Xw182.jpg "t4lk3[1].jpg")
>>141658660
>Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction
This is premised on the assumption that the Beatoplan was the only alternative to extinction, or at least offered a better chance of avoiding extinction than any other option. That NOT being the case, this point is (arguably) correct, but irrelevant.
Also, all the hindsight criticisms thrown at critiques of Beatrix's plan are all equally applicable to her plan itself. At the time and from our detached viewpoint, there is certainly not a preponderance of evidence saying it would have achieved optimal or even mostly positive results.
>>141658980
>better dead than red
Excellent point.
>>141658980
>better dead than red.
Even reds think they're better off dead.
>>141660238
Exactly. Her plan was stupid and she was a terrible fucking human being. Theo killing her was probably one of the best things that he could have done for Europe and the world. I have absolutely no sympathy for her, and no cute prequel shit is going to change my opinion on her.
>>141660416
well meme'd
>>141658563
>Americans on here at least like Beato, and some waifu her hard.
No they don't. Most of them are Katia or Gretelfags. If you want to look at the normal quality of the American anime community, just take a visit over to MAL.
>>141659706
No
Her adoptive parents in West Germany died.
With no more living relatives she joined the Bundeswehr and eventually defected to East Germany to find her real father and what became of him since she didn't know what became of him after he left her in the west.
She always held the belief that unity was better thanks to her father's ideals but unity became a feasible priority once Iris gave her the chance later on during the beginning of the rebellion.
>>141660467
That don't make less of an idiot
>let's get involved in a revolution and promise complete political reforms in a country that I don't know shit about it and I was only there for 3 months
>>141660454
What part of his statement is incorrect.
I've got no love for this series. If anything I feel bad for you guys, because no one fucking takes Muv-Luv seriously outside of your faggots.
If I want a mecha game there's always Armored Core.
>>141658465
>I guess what set the tone was how in the first episode she executed civilians with a grin which is not something I imagined her doing anytime before the rebellion
But you can imagine her taking delight in murdering scores of people, can't you, because unlike Schmidt or Axmann, she's not just using evil as a vehicle for her plans, she's doing evil because she gets a thrill from it.
>>141660416
>>141660613
Nice samefagging, at least have the balls of calling him out as yourself instead of pretending to be someone else.
Then again, with that childish logic you're using in the original post, I guess this is to be expected of you.
>>141660581
It was that or be detained in Stasi custody
I'd rather start a rebellion
>>141660724
Hello again shitposter, weren't you BTFO by >>141641639 and >>141641672 earlier in the thread today?
>>141660724
Hey senpai
MuvLuv and Armored Core aren't anywhere near the same genre. You can't even compare them.
And VNs are as much "games" as Walking Sims.
>>141653890
>she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a...
The problem here is that the appeal is not of a lonely, heartbroken person; it wouldn't work with a male character under almost any circumstances. In short, it IS an appeal other than 'SHE'S HOT!', but it's still built on her sex appeal.
>Inb4 NO!!!
The Byronic Hero is a thing, but he is usually quite a bit more ambiguous than Beatrix is, along with a host of other differences (much less certainty, for example).
>>141660811
ML as a setting is pretty ridiculous. Why do you think there were so many Frodos back in the day?
>>141660778
Yeah well SM Stasi is retarded evil, because in real life the few West Germans who defected to the DDR where actually given a spotlight
>>141660899
It think the problem is that the setting was never really all that important to the original trilogy, because Alternative never was a war story. The BETA needed to be there, but they and the rest of the world were designed to suit the narrative. This works fine in the limited scope of the original trilogy, but as a result it starts to look silly when under a more martial light.
>>141661016
Katia was given a spotlight, the anime never touched upon it and it was in passed over very very quickly in the LN/VN
Not only is the Stasi in SM retarded evil, it is also very big and far reaching compared to their real life versions
>>141660898
That doesn't contradict anything I said, though. There is a sexual aspect, it just goes far beyond skin deep (I actually prefer Iris purely for looks. She's just not as compelling as the Stasi girls past that) I'm heterosexual, so this is something that only applies to women. If I was Alex Edel, maybe I'd be more attracted to the same qualities in a big, burly Stasi bear. It would still be pretty compelling.
>>141661142
They should have gone with the original academy idea rather than the grim/dark war story.
>>141661284
Although now that I think about it, that might be part of what drew Tischbier to Edel, jr.
>>141661314
>wanting the muv luv version of Infinite Stratos
no thanks
>>141661284
>It would still be pretty compelling.
Probably, but I question whether it would motivate people to go to the lengths they do to justify her actions. This character might be compelling, but still unquestionably bad (in some way, shape, or form).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTx6ZogBbY
>>141661386
It MIGHT not turn out like IS but now that I think about it you're probably right. Disregard my suggestion.
>>141661407
I'm kind of weirded out that people were actually sad about her dying. It always seemed like her death was what allowed everyone to move on and attain happiness.
>>141661575
>everyone sans their own dicks
>>141661603
At least her death was highly sexual.
Holding hands with Gretel!
>>141661603
Considering that she's responsible for torturing and killing or trying to kill the majority of everyone else's waifus, I'd say that it still stands. Sylwiafags, Katiafags, Gretelfags, Irisfags, and so forth can't stand her. The only ones who seem to like her are the Lisefags and that one weird Phamfag.
>>141659941
Because she wasn't the light, duh.
You know who it was.
>>141660759
Look, just ignore it. He is never, ever, going to stop shitting his stupid opinion on here, the best you can do is just ignore and move on.
>>141661407
My personal belief is that 99% of people are good, 99% of the time, even the sadists, even the sociopaths. Whenever that balance changes even slightly, terrible things happen, such as the cultural revolution in China or the mass killings behind lines on the Eastern Front. The Holocaust demonstrates this pretty well. They had to move to a death camp system because the killing squads were suffering a collapse of morale, and the individual actors were all insulated either from the ability to make any decisions that didn't result in their own deaths, or in the case of the officers, from the consequences of their decisions. The reason Mengele did so much of the sorting during the liquidation of Hungary's Jews is that he was reportedly the only person that could do that job sober. By comparison, Eichmann and Heydrich were almost completely insulated from the consequences of their own actions, and Hoess was a nutter who grew up talking to his pet horse.
In the long term, any other balance is essentially impossible for human civilization to function in the long term. So for me, it's less about excusing Beatrix's crimes than it is about the idea of taking a character I find fascinating and appealing, and removing her from a situation where she has to make these decisions. That's nice to think about.
As for the decisions she makes, I think she's caught in a number of traps. First of all, with each atrocity she commits, further atrocities seem more permissible by comparison. Second of all, though by now it's twisted beyond all recognition, she's serious about trying to live up to Jurgen's ideal, it's just that the path which gives her the most opportunity and influence to do good is also the one that requires her to do the most evil. Her plan is brutal and unworkable, but she's falling back on the only things that have been successful for her. That is ultimately what makes her a tragic and appealing character.
>>141661949
>>141660759
I'm not samefagging though.
>>141661897
She saved Gretel's husbando so I cant be mad at her
>>141662033
I personally though she was more compelling back when she was a no frills Pham-raping, jealous psycho lesbian.
>>141662089
But she killed his whole family.
>>141662201
>Pham-raping
You have my attention. When did this happen?
>>141662353
'71
>>141638298
She knows what?
>>141662350
Now he needs to start a new family with Gretel
>>141658180
>Your mother and I have decided, we're hopping the wall. Go tell your brother, we leave tomorrow night.
>That sounds dangerous
>It is. Don't bother packing, we can't afford to be slowed down.
>If this is about the drama club being shut down, its okay, really, I can just find a new hobby..
>Absolutely unacceptable, you and I are artists Lise, and we can't flourish in this stifling environment. I need my creative space.
>This doesn't seem worth it
>You'll understand when we reach the other side.
>But most people don't make it over the wall, and with the recent crackdown since..
>Nonsense, we'll be fine. What could possibly go wrong.
>>141654165
>I noticed Lise seemed to have a deeper voice too. Not sure the reason but they made her more mature in looks and voice.
This is one of the few changes I liked in the anime.
>>141659920
Don't forget that SM is the first to have openly evil villains who know they're evil and enjoy it. Most of the badguys in the previous MLs have been merely misguided or at least well intentioned. I think the lack of humanism that Kouki injects into his stories is really what older ML fans dislike about SM. In Kouki's works, people feel human for the most part, and even the bad ones are easy to empathize with.
>>141662201
Huh?
>>141663275I kind of liked letting Mr. Hohenstein squirm a little bit when he found out what happened to his daughter in the mattress story.Not too much, though, he was trying to do the right thing, after all.
