Why are cartoons made in Japan so much better then ones made in America? The direction and scripts just seem way more solid in my opinion.
>>141268616
Because only animated movies are taken seriously in America, TV animation has been considered garbage for children for decades.
![304 - Jack and the Zombies.mkv_snapshot_19.16_[2015.12.17_01.46.54].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ryr15cJ.jpg "304 - Jack and the Zombies.mkv_snapshot_19.16_[2015.12.17_01.46.54].jpg")
Different audiences, cartoons are not perceived as a "serious" medium in America typically, though there are some standout pieces.
>>141268753
Like that, ninja'd me
Bro, have you seen Spongebob? Shit's genius sometimes.
Because the west thinks cartoons are for children and don't take it seriously
More autists who have trouble recognizing more subtle expressions and body language in live action shows so there's a bigger audience for animated TV shows in Japan.
More audience -> more shows produced -> more experience -> better results
>>141268753
Hey now we had some good TV animation the last couple of years.
Because it's not stained by western morals......yet.
>>141271346
Early Spongebob, sure.
>>141268811
>ninja'd
Man, I haven't heard that in a long time.
Some of the batman movies are pretty good.
>>141268616
Confirmation bias. Lots of shitty anime too.
>>141272092
Please tell me about all the great TV cartoons being made in America recently.
American animation is
1) Nearly always geared towards children
2) In the rare case that it is meant for adults it is almost always intended for comedy
3) Quality of animation is not a factor in how animations are judged
There are extremely rare exceptions to the above, however.
>>141272174
Please tell me about the 50 shows that America produces every season.
>>141272174
Gravity Falls was pretty good.
>>141272334
Wikipedia lists about forty new animated TV series for the US (including joint international productions) in 2016 so far. That's not as much as anime, but it's not tiny, either. Which are the good ones?
>>141272673
I guess I was wrong about their output.
But I never bothered watching any of them.
>>141271771
>Macfarlane shit
You've successfully triggered me.
>>141268616
Because American cartoons are made by Jews to push communism and lgbt faggotry. The Jews fear the samurai.
>>141272726
Not him, but that image at least made me laugh.
But in all seriousness, anything anyone could post would probably be flamed, anyway.
Most anime is garbage though.
>>141272982
And some of the garbage anime airing this season is still better than most of the cartoons airing now.
>>141268616
because of the marketing department
>>141268616
There are lots of reasons.
Americans tend to spend way too much money on production because animators in the US are overpaid and the process is not very efficient. Many Japanese studios are borderline sweatshops, and a lot of the big players like Toei just outsource everything now to actual sweatshops in South East Asia. Because of this western studios are a lot less inclined to take big risks because they might go bankrupt trying to do it.
There are also differences between how these industries typically generate profit. Anime usually relies upon merchandise sales whereas western television relies heavily upon ad revenue. You can sell massively overpriced merch to a handful of idiot otaku and make a profit even if your show pulls relatively few viewers. That kind of culture doesn't exist at all in the west: low views means low revenue, if you aren't as popular as, for example, Bob's Burgers, you are going to be airing the show at a loss. Bob's Burgers might actually be running at a loss right now, I think I've heard that somewhere. That sets a really high standard for animated content in the west, just look at the shit Futurama had to go through for straddling the line between profitable and unprofitable.
You also need to consider the fact that animation in the west is culturally associated with childishness, there's not a lot you can do to change that, but I think with the younger generations growing up with easy access to anime and adult-swim-esque content this cultural view might change over 20 or so years.
Honestly cartoons just aren't as big a focus in America as they were 20 years ago. Sure you still have the big players like Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry (though their modern stuff will never hold a candle to the works of people like Chuck Jones etc.) but in the past five or so years the actual popularity of cartoons in the west has dwindled super hard. There are probably less than ten notable new IPs as it stands.
Sucks cause in the 90s and early 2000s there were a lot of cartoons that definitely knew how to experiment with and push what was expected of the medium (the use of colors, lighting and direction in shows like Powerpuff Girls, Ed Edd n Eddy and Samurai Jack for example were pretty out there)
You obviously have never watched Mr.Pickles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0fw_rSPaQQ
Actual professional pitch to Cartoon Network
I actually consider this single cartoon to be the prime example of literally everything wrong with modern western cartoons
>>141268616
Gomenasai, my name is Ken-Sama.
I’m a 27 year old American Otaku (Anime fan for you gaijins). I draw Anime and Manga on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Japanese games. (Disgaea, Final Fantasy, Persona series)
I train with my Katana every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my sword license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.
I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%
When I get my Japanese visa, I am moving to Tokyo to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Studio Ghibli or a game designer!
I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Japan, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.
Wish me luck in Japan!
>>141275737
It's like I've watched this a million times
>>141275737
That's honestly the western equivalent to derivative moeshit, completely worthless.
>>141275766
>I own several kimonos, which I wear around town
But yukatas are comfy as fuck though
>>141268616
Let's not have this shitty thread again.
1) Comparative advantage. USA has a well developed movie industry, so they're better off doing series than cartoons.
2) Barriers to entry. "anime-style" is already well accepted by the public, but non-japanese people adopting this style are often faced with prejudice. So non-japs trying to compete have to cope with the higher costs of developing some other drawing style that also appeals to the public (riskier) or deal with the prejudice of not being japanese enough
RICK AND MORTY IS MORE ENTERTAINING THAN YOUR FAVORITE ANIME
>>141279510
But you don't even know what my favorite anime is, anon-kun.
>>141268616
The animation style is certainly ways above western standards, though the animation can be pretty solid in American cartoons too.
Also, I usually don't say this because it's the opposite of being /a/ related, butMLP is pretty damn solid, moreso than most never-ending anime series
>>141279510
Shit and Morty is tumblr garbage.
>>141268616
1st 3 seasons of Spongebob were the awesome.
>>141279705
There're various examples of american cartoons with a decent fanbase. The main problem is that america lacks a standard for their cartoons, each author have to come up their own drawing style, which might or not be accepted by the public. So it's harder to enter in the industry as you'll have to deal with the risk of people simply not liking your drawing style.
On the other hand, japanese people can just use the standard in japanese animation and focus on other things.
I liked Gravity Falls and Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated. Star Wars Rebels ain't bad either.
I should check out if new Micky Mouse short episodes came out too.
Danger Mouse is awesome too, but that one's British.
In terms of production value and overall enjoyment, there's good stuff that Americans can do, just as there's good Japanese animation.
>>141280504
I get that, but I don't think the writers have to stress too much about the animation style.
On the other hand, if there's one thing I hate about the show I mentioned, it's exactly the fanbase, at least the majority of it.
>>141280504
What? There's nothing stopping you from just learning from artstyles of popular cartoons. Which is exactly what you're describing happening in anime - there's no one big school where they teach everyone certain specific standards that all anime art must fall within, people just take inspiration from other anime artstyles.
Of course all anime look the same.
>>141275737
Still better than Dragon Crisis.
>>141281514
Dragon Crisis actually looked good and had a damn good OP though, it's just the story and characters that were shit.
>>141281010
Not denying it, but there's how people are going to value your artstyle. If your work looks too much like X, some might think your work is inferior to X. Picture an american taking the anime standard artstyle (big eyes, small noses, unrealistic heads, but realistic body anatomy, etc) and a jap doing the same.
>>141279377
>>141280504
All I'm hearing is that somehow it's more difficult to develop a good artstyle if you're not Japanese.
>>141281730
It wouldn't matter, assuming they both did it well. I mean, come on, generic "anime-ish" artstyles do well all the time, even if they're of varying quality. Avatar, Wakfu, Code Lyoko, etc. Half the people watching dubbed anime on TV don't even know whether what they're watching is anime or a western cartoon.
>>141268616
Everything is rotten, from the audience, to the people making it, to the source material.
im a softie for the western cartoons like steven universe, chowder, gravity falls etc.
i also rewatch ed edd and eddy on a regular basis.
>>141281903
Many don't care, others do. You're on /a/, don't deny the existence of weaboos.
>>141282095
We're talking about viability here, not "some people don't like this thing". That kind of artstyle is clearly commercially viable.
Anyway, my original point was about taking inspiration from other Western cartoons that are well-liked, which is what anime artists do with anime artstyles. There's no 'barrier to entry" regarding artstyle like you're talking about.
>>141280504
What, all western cartoons look the same, all have the same artstyle.
see this
>>141275737
this looks very generic, there is nothing creative about this artstyle. Brown colours, circle tool eyes, non-head hair. And the other stuff I can't really point out that contributes to its genericness.
There is some variation in western stuff, sure, but it's no more diverse than anime. Western cartoons put their effort into coming up with different animals to have as main characters, while everything else looks the same, while anime puts effort into stuff like eye shapes and clothes, but generally uses the same character outline.
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_NCOPED2_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[DEB8A1D1].mkv_snapshot_01.32_[2016.05.01_16.05.58].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/x7KT3FR.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_NCOPED2_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[DEB8A1D1].mkv_snapshot_01.32_[2016.05.01_16.05.58].jpg")
American animation is all for children and done in Korea with shoestring budget, also western millennial ""comedy""
>>141272816
>lgbt faggotry.
I dare someone produces an anime with a mixed gender cast but everyone is gay
>>141268616
The 90's-2000's animated DCU would like a word with you.
>>141282095
What? Weeaboos are exactly the ones who pile onto that kind of artstyle. "I watched ten anime and can say two sentences in Japanese, I'm such an otaku"-types love rwby.
>>141282513
Most anime comedies end up being unfunny as well, to be fair.
They're just different types of unfunny.
>>141273866
>You also need to consider the fact that animation in the west is culturally associated with childishness, there's not a lot you can do to change that, but I think with the younger generations growing up with easy access to anime and adult-swim-esque content this cultural view might change over 20 or so years.
Ahhhh, too long!
We need anime fans to get to executive positions in the TV/entertainment industry
>>141268616
Because the west favors live action and CGI animation, and has largely become much better at it than the east.
Same applies to the Japanese and hand drawn animation
nah
>>141272726
Don't compare American Dad to the garbage fire that is Family Guy. Showtunes Man has only done voices in American Dad for like 10 seasons now.
>>141275766
Kek.
>>141282654
Anime fans in the TV industry are just going to be horrible Toonami weeaboos.
>>141281478
What's the source on bottom right anon?I hate asking but it looks kind of cool.
>>141282360
There's cleary a demand for more mature cartoons in US, just look at the anime community outside japan, it's huge. If so, why aren't american studios trying to cater to this public? There're attempts, you named a few, but anyone trying to enter in this market will have to compete with japanese cartoons, and I'm argueing they have a comparative advantage. That's all.
>>141283174
Japs have an advantage because they have an established adult animation market with known names and lots of experience, not because Americans for some reason can't incorporate elements of popular artstyles into their own.
>>141283261
I'm not saying they can't, they can and they do, but it's harder for them to succeed due to the lack of an established adult animation market there, which affects both the quality of their works but also how the public perceives them. That's exacly the point I was trying to make, damn.
>>141268753
This
Because it's for children, is has to be kept simple, so characters mustn't become too complex and storylines must be concluded in the same episode they began.
Nipjaps better look out though because their overzealous workethic currently guides their industry into a cesspool that will see them up to their nose in shit due running well-selling concepts into the fucking ground while simultaneously oversaturating the market. It's no coincidence that animoo is notorious for how extremely it rehashes characters and plotlines. The west is guilty of this, as well, no doubt, but nothing compares to the vast stage prop storage of anime-productions when it comes to tossing character concepts together.
If OP needs proof, just direct him to the SoL and harem category of any streaming- or torrenting-site.
>>141272364
Gravity Falls is legit underrated. Even its professed fans generally don't get it.
>>141284097
Heard some good things about it, tried it, couldn't watch more than like 2 or 3 episodes.
I don't see the appeal of it beyond it tries to at least do some more interesting things than just the regular braindead cartoon cliches, but never going anywhere high with those.
>>141275737
It's 'interesting' to see a show made by people who genuinely think that Adventure Time and Regular Show are based around 'random' humor and don't understand the weird observations about life experience embedded in them that make them work in the first place.
>>141284237
Gravity Falls has an incredibly offbeat sense of humor, most of the jokes fly way over more people's heads and it really doesn't care that few people will pick up on the weirder things it does. It can be genuinely generic at times, but if you don't see what its doing it will seem like a typical kids cartoon with an overblown plot attached to it.
Gravity Falls, South Park, Adventure Time and Steven Universe are all really good.
>>141268811
Samurai Jack was okay but it actually suffers from not finishing. And it's pretty clear there was no intent to finish in a timely manner.
>by Studio Trigger
What I can't tolerate is little boy lead in cartoons, which happens pretty often.
I blame anime for this though, because their faggy shotas made me hate all little boys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXpWAO0F7ck
>>141284913
B-but crossdressing little boys are great.
>>141284949
I like how he dodges having to talk about MLP by using its old generation as example, instead of the male/fandom pandering current series.
>>141283110Different anon but it's Nijuu Mensou no Musume. Not a horrible show.
>>141284839
Studio Trigger has not managed a good series yet, so it's not surprising.
>>141268616
Because western cartoons exist for sell plastic toys and t-shirts with hilarious faces, you cant expect western making esque- Hibiki euphonium cartoons.
>>141275766
Someone post the reversed one :D
>>141268616
There are all kinds of factors not just one. Here some reasons.
>Better education
In America the teacher's just care if you pass the class and get a passing grade on those retarded standardized tests. In Japan, there is a greater emphasis on other course like arts and crafts, and even higher education classes in America struggle with teaching kids things like anatomy or live drawing two subjects that are so vital to animation. Because not many people are good at drawing they wind up on television, the good ones get hired by Disney and Pixar.
>2. Respect for the medium
Not just Japan, but in other countries that produce better animations, like France. There's a reason why Je Suis Charlie existed. Its because to be a cartoonist in France is the equivalent of a hollywood celebrity. Americans think cartoons and animations are just silly shit and giggles.
>3. Animator's Union
They raised the wages so high for animator's, even lowly ones doing small shit, that all the jobs got sent to Korea, its the reason most TV animation is done in Worst Korea.
>>141285529
>esque- Hibiki euphonium
>>141268616
> Why are cartoons made in Japan so much better then ones made in America?
Many are better 'cause they do some serious work on them. Especially the animators and voice actors are amazing.
That said, their story writers often suck. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that some of the dumbest shit is apparently what TV networks can peddle best, and will fund to be animated.
>>141286140
I agree. As far as writing goes in regards to serious plot, anime is really underwhelming.
Many of the aforementioned cartoons have a better plot even in self constrained one shot episodes.
>>141285516
Well, I think the Japs really do like 'Akuma Buster Star Butterfly' these days
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28544589
>>141268753
>TV animation has been considered garbage for children for decades.
That's exactly what anime is for japs though.
>>141286414
Once again, ruined by little boy.
Fuck do they need to push one in every series.
King of the Hill is based. Nice mix of Comedy/SoL with occasional drama and great characters.
>>141285399
Main characters remind me of Big-O. Hopefully this show doesn't have a mind fuck ending. Thank you
>>141286462
>That's exactly what anime is for japs though.
stop watching shounen / shoujo
>>141286515
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxdgCPtanow
>A girl meets a boy, unable to confess her love. she.....
Yeah japan is totally better on every plane.
>>141286611
just like muh shirobako
>>141286598
>implying than shounen is the trash of the anime
>but every best selling anime ever has been a shounen
If there's a genre of japanese cartoon that isn't considered unsuccessful garbage for kids by the japs (there isn't, but let's say there was), it's shounen. Shounen is the best genre and sales prove it.
>>141286770
Shounen is not a genre, it means the target audience is 8-15 years old mostly.
>>141286820
8-15 boys*
For girls, the same age range would be shoujo.
>>141286820
I guess that's why there's a huge section of shounen in manga stores mixed with all the other genres right? Leave it to gayjin to talk shit about that Japanese stuff he doesn't know about it really.
>>141286915
that doesn't contradict what he said at all
>>141286770
>>but every best selling anime ever has been a shounen
What. The best selling shounen is SnK, and it's ninth overall.
>>141286915
What are you even talking about?
>>141275737
This low detail, noodle people shit that Adventure Time popularized aggravates me to no end
>>141286998
What is doragon boru? What is Naruto? What is shinseiki? What is detective conan? What is one piece? What is...
>>141287063
NGE is anime-original, the rest all sold worse than SnK.
What's the KotH of anime?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amKyA2PrSu4
the first Ben10 was good. Probably one of the first time I had an incest pairing.
Teen Titans was pretty nice too.
>>141287095
>SnK sold a bit more than 22 million
>One Piece sold more than 273400 million
>SnK doesn't even make it to the top 20
Source your claims user 141278095.
>this kills the newfag
>>141287295
http://www.someanithing.com/2581
http://www.someanithing.com/312
http://www.someanithing.com/1
Fuck off.
>>141287186
>mentioning incest pairing
>that picture
Neat.
Also I watched current generation of MLP too after years of passionate hatred for it, and it's actually a pretty amusing moe/SoL show, almost like watching my anime so far, though I fear I will see why it's hated so much soon.
>>141284839
>Studio Trigger
○TRIGGER TVアニメ売上一覧
(2013) 11,563 キルラキル
(2014) **,996 異能バトルは日常系のなかで
(2016) *1,424 ニンジャスレイヤー フロムアニメイシヨン
**1,301位/**1,301位 (***,162 pt) [*,**2予約] 2016/06/08 キズナイーバー 1(イベントチケット優先販売申し込み券付)(完全生産限定版) [Blu-ray]
RIP and good riddance fucking westaboo fucks.
>>141287316
>posts sources for TV/discs only
>source keeps track of sales only in Japan
>even though source is shit, it doesn't even support his original claim that SnK is the best selling series of all time
I guess this is the kind of shitpost people post when they're desperate right?
>>141268616
Anime has cute girls and is not limited by western morality and SJWism.
>>141282669
Was that supposed to be so fucking sexual?
>>141287393
MLP was great regardless for what people say.
I started watching it for the popular lesbian horses. Then dropped it after the third season because it got boring and I just started to notice how disgusting the fandom really was.
>>141268616
American cartoons are kind of trash right now because they're dominated by young creators who all went to the same school, leading to little variety and originality, and generally low quality. It worked for a few shows so now CN and Disney do it for just about every show. I'm not sure about Nick but I haven't watched a Nick cartoon since Korra.
They also have a different direction, so it makes sense to prefer one over the other. Japanese animation tries to look detailed and complex in regards to character design and effects, sometimes leading to really cheap-looking animation. Western animation has extremely facile character design, but much more fluid animation as a result. They also generally have larger budgets and much more time to make them, so that helps a lot too.
Also, anime obviously has much more variety. In America 90% of cartoons are comedies for children, and those that aren't are either comedies for adults (mostly trash), or action/drama shows for kids (with lots of comedy). This is probably the reason you say Japanese scripts just seem way more solid, shows like your pic just aren't made. As far as direction goes I don't really agree, Adventure Time has great direction in some episodes (although, perhaps non-coincidentally, the best episode of the show was directed by Masaaki Yuasa. Go figure.)
>>141284839
>Frozen the television series
Wait, what? First time I hear of it. And I even went to check the Frozen Wikipedia page and there's no mention of such thing.
>>141287393
Yuzuki was the incest girl not Ruu.
>>141287510
I don't really intend to get involved with the fandom. If the show doesn't drop huge in quality, I guess I've found myself a nice addition to my list, which is pretty ironic after how much I hated it until a few weeks ago.
>>141287599
I know. That's why it was subtle.
Anyone have that image about animation in America being a dying craft and how schools don't teach even the basics anymore, you know the one that triggers /co/?
>>141284839
>broccoli soup
I have literally never heard this. And macaroni and cheese is a 0/10 pleb dish, he can get pasta with almost-real tomato sauce if he wants macaroni.
>>141268616
Not how closely this reflects an animator's schedule, but 3 hours of free time per week might be a reason
>>141284839
>by Studio Trigger
I googled the text and the page with that interview says it's Studio Khara.
https://marinasauce.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/sakura-con-2016-designingworking-in-the-anime-industry-with-hiroyasu-kobayashi-and-shigeto-koyama/
The best American cartoon in the last decade was Batman Brave & the Bold.
>>141287095
What the fuck is SnK
>>141287718
You're right
>Khara (studio)
>Founder:HIdeaki Anno
>>141287653
It's broccoli and cheese
>>141268616
There's a few rare gems around.
The original Watership Down movie, at least.
>>141268753
Animated movies don't get taken seriously either. Academy Award nominees for animation aren't even watched by judges. They literally give the awards to Dreamworks or Pixar depending on how many of the judge's children saw the cartoon.
Last year's was particularly hurtful considering that literally any other nominee was better than what actually on the award.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Animated_Feature#2010s
It's just a fucking joke. This whole industry is a joke
>>141287527
>American cartoons are kind of trash right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8wOE7J8G1U
>>141268616
The really simple answer is that they produce significantly more of it, and a much larger percentage of Japanese artists must draw cartoons than in other countries.
Manga is a multi-billion dollar industry and the largest source of comics in the world- without taking doujin or piracy into account. Over a quarter of all book and magazine sales in Japan are manga, in a rather literate country.
Anime follows from manga: the art styles are nearly identical, and comics are naturally easy to adapt into animation.
I've been trying to find good numbers on the size of the anime industry versus the U.S. and Chinese industries, but the most I can say is that they're of similar size. Those countries are also 2.5x and 10x the size of Japan.
That means Japan is the largest major producer of animation per capita by a long shot.
If you want an extremely rough demonstration of this, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animation_studios
137 studios from the United States are listed, however 58 are listed as defunct.
92 studios from Japan, with only 8 defunct.
So nearly the same number of studios listed between the center of the global entertainment industry and an island with 40% of its population, on a page made by English-speakers.
That says little about the total number of animators, but you get an idea of the disparity.
>>141287816
I don't have the image saved but someone screencapped the judge commentary for the animated films and it was absolutely disgusting. Just a bunch of housewives and old people bitching about anime being too confusing to watch and not family-friendly enough.
>>141287498
old dc animated shows were 10/10
>>141287775
What the fuck aren't you lurking more?
>>141287910
>>141287816
It's ok anons
Oscars are really nothing more than the (jew run) industry patting itself on the back. It's all just rich white men jerking each other off.
>>141284752
>South Park
hi /pol/
>>141288005
He also mentions Adventure Time and Steven Universe which are SJW/tumblr friendly shows.
>>141287393
>though I fear I will see why it's hated so much soon.
The reason why it's hated so much is the fandom. The "bronies" are cringy just to look at through a computer screen; how they prance and rave about shit nobody cares while infesting it with filth only adult degenerates or autistic manchildren can. If you like watching cartoons it's fine, just don't go all zealous about it, it's just a show, a colorful, comfy time spender to help unwind.
It's kinda like the sonic fandom. Enjoyable franchise on its own, but the eyes of God turns away from the degeneracy going rampant with OCs and autistic fetishists.
If you just watch it and steer clear of that you'll be fine, I liken the experience to watching Power Puff Girls growing up, although I grew bored of it by, like, season three. Catchy songs tho.
>>141287816
>>141287910
I remember seeing an article where they interviewed people eligible to vote on the animation category, what they thought of the nominees and which one they would vote for. Or maybe it was which one they did vote for? Anyways the point is:
The responses were things like "I didn't see any of these, but this one was made by Pixar and they always make the best ones so I'll vote for that." or "This one has a cute dog. You've gotta give it to the cute dog, right?
>>141288093
I'm just through a number of silly songs by the pink one which I didn't dislike, but then there were two actual songs and I love them. Hope they keep this up.
Also if I was able not to go full apeshit about anime, I'm pretty sure I can handle this too without becoming a "brony". How correct am I in calling them the equivalent of weaboos?
>>141288005
/pol/ hates steven universe.
>>141288047
Steven Universe isn't very subtle with its moralism but I don't get that vibe from Adventure Time.
>>141288005
>implying South Park isn't among the most mainstream of shows and the most general kind of popular, unfunny shit, like a moron.
>>141287820
>reddit memes in Powerpuff Girls
WHY
>>141288314
They are like rabid fans of moe anime. Best girl wars, merchandise, porn, etc
>>141282669
What's the point of this post? Old Cape cartoons are nice?
>>141268753
>Because only animated movies are taken seriously in America
>animated movies are taken seriously in America
>>141288408
Whatever, nothing new, or anything I want to get involved with, thanks for the heads up.
Also it amazed me that the characters I expected to hate from a glance turned out to be quite lovely, but I guess I can't judge characters as well without much experience with the medium.
>>141288047
They kinda are man.
Adventure Time started out as a boy and his dog going on trippy adventures and good old fashioned dungeon crawling and princess saving, then, as the show went on it began focusing on stupid shit and characters nobody cared about, and shitty romance plots for a 14 year old that went nowhere, THEN Finn and Jake turned into a pseudo side characters as it became more the Princess and Marceline show. And SU goes pretty on the nose with their shit, they even had a female character throw the "term" "Nuclear Family", there's also points where it becomes uncomfortable with the visuals and undertones and "Fusions"
>>141288314
Risking becoming one isn't the issue, as any sane person will just watch the show for it's face value, I'm just saying what kills it or otherwise puts people off is the religious following of manchildren.
>How correct am I in calling them the equivalent of weaboos?
>>141288408 What this guy said, though those aren't inherently exclusive to weeaboos.
>>141288606
Good thing the fandom never really influenced my liking of a show.
>>141287711
This is so baka to post, low level animator schedule and weekly managa artist are probably incredibly different.
Each manga artist has a different schedule based on needs,assistants,life,etc. To even TRY and compare to the two is simply baka.
>>141287820
Let's take a little walk through my thoughts in the last minute or so.
New powerpuff girls?
Oh wow new season, that's awesome
Bubbles, no
Why would they do that
Wake me up inside
CAN'T WAKE UP
>>141288606
>SU goes pretty on the nose with their shit, they even had a female character throw the "term" "Nuclear Family", there's also points where it becomes uncomfortable with the visuals and undertones and "Fusions"
This isn't SJW/Tumblr. This is your own insecurities poking through. I honestly don't know how anything in SU can make you uncomfortable.
>>141287775
A fighting game
>>141288400
>>141288749
they just want to be hip and updated with the young audiences with 8 year old memes.
>>141288749
They really fucked up with the reboot didn't they?
>>141288819
>they even had a female character throw the "term" "Nuclear Family"
wow someone call the cops
>>141288749
I hate people complain about the new PPG, it's not for you anymore. You're a grown ass man watching little bug eyed girls, move on.
>>141288846
samurai jack here we come
>>141288900
I like the subtle ass cheeks in the opening though.
Is that worth something?
>>141288900
>Defending the new PPG ever
>160 posts
>Ctrl+f Gumball
>0 results.
Why haven't any of you twits mentioned this yet? Amazing World of Gumball is basically the only recent cartoon worth watching nowadays.
>>141289067
Because that doesn't fit the 'western cartoons are SJW-pandering garbage' agenda
>>141289067
It's only worth watching for the mom.
>>141286915
Just like there are YA, "guys' reads", and women's sections in American book stores, yes.
>>141288900
The new PPG is literally made by a bunch of SJWs and nu-males who care more about brainwashing children than making a good cartoon
>>141289180
nu-males sounds like a type of candy
I don’t know, The Venture Bros is much funnier than Konosuba, Gintama, etc.
>>141289111
>mentioning her and not posting the relevant web.m
Why anon?
>>141288900
>We never really made the show for kids; we always just made it for us.
Craig McCracken, on The Powerpuff Girls.
the only thing western cartoons do better than anime is humor
japanese comedy is just terrible. the timing is bad, the delivery is bad, the jokes aren't even particularly funny, and punchlines always get overly explained like they think the audience is stupid.
>>141284839
Studio Trigger's style does feel like it takes a few notes from American cartoons.
Their character designs and color palettes seem simpler and more streamlined than other anime.
They've hit a good balance in my opinion.
>>141289237
>The Venture Bros
I forgot about that show. I love Venture Bros.
>>141289237
>>141289447
that's more of a matter of cultural differences than a difference in production quality
besides, if we're talking about production quality take a look at some of disney's hand-drawn movies or ILM, which i'd say are miles ahead of most of what japan makes
>>141268616
>The direction and scripts just seem way more solid in my opinion.
Are you memeing me?
Who Archer here?
>>141268753
Aren't there cartoons aimed at young adults though? Like Archer? (which is the only american cartoon I've watched in the last five years)
>>141279840
>It's popular therefore it sucks
This is literally all that you wrote.
>>141289623
That's to be expected of the animation equivalent of Hollywood. The thing is, animation itself is the medium, so the studios with access to more money/workers will invariably have better production, which isn't true of live action films.
>>141287063
Prime time anime have an unprecedented history of selling like shit. If the lifeline of Naruto, Conan, and One Piece relied on anime sales, all three would have died about 2 decades ago. Dragonball only has a high average due to countless box set and rereleases. Also, the average volume for primetime shows have four episodes as opposed to 2 for most seasonal shows and are sold at a lower price tag.
>>141287458
>source keeps track of sales only in Japan
>Implying westerners buy anime
>>141268616
I play a euphonium and I love this.
At least American cartoons can do comedy.
>>141289689
Bojack Horseman on Netflix is a cartoon aimed specifically at adults
>>141289310
you post it anon
>>141268616
You could argue that LN don't count because they can be so steeped in Japanese comics' culture, but I wish there were more western animations, films and shows, based on novels. I'm going to watch The Magic Treehouse some time soon, and also Ulysses 31.
>>141289623
>disney's hand-drawn movies
Do they still make those?
>>141290053no
>>141290053
Last one was 2009. It was their movies that made me see the value in CGi, but the real reason is because it sells better. The best you can hope for are TV originals by Disneytoon.
>>141290104
my problem with disney's CG is that a lot of their movies seem really obviously formulated to me, in the sense that they had a think tank come up with the setting and plot that would sell the best
for example, i thought zootopia looked absolutely gorgeous but the script just wasn't very good
>>141281478
>Top Left
Looks like Senior fighting someone from School Shock, which is chink stuff
>Next three
Prefer sauce in top right since reverse image search only gave me info on bottom left
>>141268616
You gotta watch the old ones, no the good ones. Let me give you a list:
Courage the cowardly dog
Tom and Jerry
Loony Toons
Scooby doo(Dont go past mystery inc.)
Marvel Comics: Spiderman
Spiderman unlimited
Spectacular Spiderman
Batman:TAS
Batman Beyond
Batman: Brave and the Bold (Watch the animated films too)
The Maxx
Spawn
Teen Titans (Original)
Hellboy Films
Transformers
X-men series
TMNT (2003)
Samurai Jack
Hey, Arnold
Krypto
The original PPG(Plus the Movie)
Gravity Falls (Amazing Writing)
Star vs. The forces of Evil
Wonder over Yonder (Great idea that got cancelled too soon)
All the Animated DC movies
All old Disney movies
All old Dreamworks movies
And Pinky and the Brain
Thats all the Greats.
>>141290319
t. 1992
>>141290256
Because that's what it pretty much is. Disney has been creatively dead for ages. The most they do these days are the corporate and marketing stuff like acquiring more properties (Star Wars, Marvel etc). They don't really give much shit about experimenting around like they used to.
>>141290256
I haven't seen the last few, but I know what you mean. It's a shame, since a lot of the latest ones have interesting concepts and, alongside the great look, interesting styles. It feels very unlike things from any other time period, though. Even taking into account the obvious difference between decades, there's still a distinct feel to their films, and that kind of went away with the advent of CG. It's like the new medium let them (or made them) change the pacing/tone. Or maybe it's just that they're not trying to animated. A lot of them feel like they're trying to be live action movies that just happen to be animated, even if they do "cartoony" things.
>>141290319
wow, how did you not include Gumball or a bunch of older CN and AS shows
>>141290319
Avatar should be up there, or does it not count since it's styled after anime?
>>141290256
>the script just wasn't very good
Didn't that go through extensive rework later on because it was getting a bit too dark for a target audience consisting of children?
From what I gather it was supposed to have a more dystopian feel to it with predators forced to wear shock collars and there being a very VERY strong level of disparity between the species. There was also a bleaker set up, Nick was also the main protagonist out to try and solve a murder he was framed for.
>>141290319
>Teen Titans (Original)
That isn't what you think it is.
>All old Disney movies
>All old Dreamworks movies
HA
You've got a relatively narrow list here, grabbing from just a few areas.
For my personal recommendations, I'd say anything by the CN Trio (McCracken, Faust, and Tartakovsky), Disney films from 1989-2000, with Avatar and Totally Spies! for flavor.
>>141290466
>A lot of them feel like they're trying to be live action movies that just happen to be animated
I think you nailed it with this. Say what you want about anime, but there's the sense of them playing around with the visuals in the way that the medium allows them. I tried getting into the more recent works of Disney and it just doesn't have the sort of elements that separate it from the typical live action in terms of things like the presentation or direction.
>>141287510
It oddly enough got better after the third season because of fan complaints. Bronies are like a double-edged sword.
>>141290561
That actually sounds fucked up. I haven't seen the film, but I don't think I could deal with the original tone.
>>141290319
Aren't you just illustrating the issue?
That in a list of "all the Greats", there is only that few entries from over the past 85 years.
>>141268616
what show is that?
>>141290501
>>141290530
Your right
Avatar (Not Korra)
Amazing world of Gumball
Totally Spies
Regular show
Invader Zim
Danny Phantom
T.U.F.F Puppy
CatDog
Black Panther TAS
Dextors Lab
My Life as a Teenage robot (Jenny is best girl)
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
Ronny and Mr. Whiskers (Ronny Best girl)
Ben 10(Anything after alien force is shit repeat SHIT)
Oh yeah Mickey MouseAnd Zootopia
That should be it i think.P.S. Judy is the most Moe girl this decade
>>141288900
I still watch old PPG at 3 am in Cartoon Network, and enjoy every single second, you are a faggot.
>>141290980
Don't forget Spongebob before the movie, Sealab 2021, Wakfu, Oban Star Racers, Ed Edd n Eddy, etc. I'd also argue that Korra is actually good.
>>141283939
But even kids anime in Japan are way better than most kids cartoons in America.
>>141271771
>>141289689
>>141289836
That guy was just half right.
Most of the west still thinks cartoons can only be 2 things. Simple stuff for kids, or raunchy comedies for young adults.
A few things have come close. Some shows like adventure time and steven universe are still pretty damn episodic and childish, but they've at least tried to have overarching plots and serious tones at times.
And then there's Avatar, which while still kind of intended for kids was a huge step up and more like anime than anything else.
>>141288819
>I honestly don't know how anything in SU can make you uncomfortable.
I don't get it either. If anything SU is a show that actually succeeds at being 'diverse' in that it's created by people who are actually interested in exploring various characters as human beings, as opposed to shoving in characters to push a specific agenda.
>>141287295
>273400 million
That isn't how numbers work.
>>141290764
Even if the characters only do regular, everyday things without much flare, there's still a lot you can do stylistically that helps inform the character direction. The Garden of Words comes to mind. It's realistic, but it has a style that just doesn't get used in live action things. Animation usually has more varied tones just because people don't feel obligated to make it "realistic", which can at times just make things seem too same-y. I don't think that "realistic" acting is that much closer to life than "cartoon" acting, either (comparing similar genres, that is).
>>141290952
Most of those are from the past 35 years.
Past 85 years wouldn't be that weird; the 30s was kind of the start of the industry in the west and the east.
>>141268616
Anime's target age group ranges from 5 to 30+ years old. Also has the benefit of usually being based on some sort of source material. Meanwhile cartoons are done off no source material and targeted to kids 16 and under.
>>141291256
Yes, it is.
Good Rule of Thumb
Don't try to correct people when:
1. He is more right than you.
2. You are ignorant of the subject in the first place.
>>141290053
>watch Tarzan last night
>Be amazed at the scenes where Tarzan is surfing thru the trees.
>That amazing hand-drawn animation
>Never to be seen again.
>All that talent will be lost in time
>Like Tears in the rain.
Fuck you Disney you bunch of greedy kikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGKj_yB5_PI
>>141291423
After 999 million, the number is 1 billion.
>>141291154
>I'd also argue that Korra is actually good.
At the very least, it looks super good.
>>141291423
Go back to math, 2nd class.
>>141291333
You missed my point; it's not that "would be that weird", it's that if you are making a list that is covering that long of a time frame, there should be far more entries than that.
But there aren't.
And that illustrates the issue OP has brought up.
>>141291256
>>141291545
It's not technically wrong, it's just a very non-typical way of saying it.
>>141272174
Please tell me about all the great anime being made recently.
Deal with it, most anime and most US cartoons are shit.
People only remember gems.
>>141291465
>>141291545
Oh yeah, my mistake! No one has EVER formatted a number like "twenty five hundred" for example.
Fucking moron.
>>141290980
>Danny Phantom
>CatDog
Ya blew it
>No Young Justice
>No Johnny Bravo
>No Animaniacs
>>141291565
I understand, and I agree.
>season 2 never
>>141291654
Twenty five hundred is just said because it's easier than two thousand five hundred, and it's only once decimal place off.
273400 million is just autism.
>>141291684
Also forgot Batman: The Animated Series. Probably the best show that American animation has given us in the past 30 years that wasn't a comedy.
Why was Avatar so much better than 90% of anime?
>>141268616
They're not, it's just that the really good shows are just dragged on forever until they suck.
Take earlier seasons of The Simpsons and Archer, no anime exists that are better than them, only on par.
>>141291788
>Probably the best show that American animation has given us in the past 30 years
AH--
>that wasn't a comedy.
Oh, then I agree.
>>141291798
>little boy main lead
Already wrong
>>141291788
For sure, the team who worked on that was insanely talented.
>>141268616
It's an extension of Japanese attitude toward manga and art.
Mangaka are highly respected in Japan, earning the same title as teachers and doctors. Manga is consumed by a very large chunk of the population, spanning a huge age range with countless different genres and publications. While publishers and editors have power in determining what gets written, manga are still largely in control of the mangaka (especially if they're someone like Togashi).
Here in the US, comics are consumed by a tiny pocket demographic that is often as extreme as hardcore otaku in japan. The plots of the comics are controlled almost entirely by corporations and nobody outside of comic fandom knows the names of the authors.
Japanese culture also just has an enormous respect for art of any sort. By contrast, the only thing that gets respect in the west is whatever sells best.
>>141291937
>Mangaka are highly respected in Japan
>>141290256
>>141290466
I feel like the problem with cgi is that doesn't age well, love the Incredibles but watching it now it feels a bit aged, the character's skin looks to oily at times. it doesn't help that many video games look just as good. Hand-drawn rarely does bad, you can watch Pinocchio and it still looks good.
One thing I will say about Disney is that they seem to be only ones that are trying. Everything other studio seems to be selling out in order to sell shitty merch.
>>141291937
>manga are still largely in control of the mangaka
What the hell are you high on?
>>141291937
Er, most Japanese people aren't otakus like the weebs on this imageboard (this includes you).
Hollywood films are still the biggest ticket sellers in Japan. Hell, they make some decent live-action films themselves too.
>>141287647
Right here bro.r>>141285578
>>141291937
>earning the same title as teachers and doctors
>he thinks the term sensei by itself denotes prestige
>>141291798
Because 90% of everything is shit. The 10% remaining anime are much better than Avatar in every aspect.
Remember, the best way to enjoy king of the hill is in japanese:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7385863
>>141292067
>every aspect
>every
Oh man, I'm not an oldfag, but I imagine that old /a/ just had people enjoying anime and manga, not stereotypical weebtards.
Is this the stupidity that oldfags complain about?
>>141292133
More discussions
More elitism
/a/ got a lot of traffic right when we started getting a lot of fantastic anime seasons in 2007-2008 so I guess everyone was a bit happier.
>>141292133
Do you have any actual arguments as to why avatar beats out the 10% of anime that's considered the best that Japanese animation has to offer?
>>141291442
Fuck man, I don't need these nostalgic feels
>tfw it was the late 90s and you only had the option of watching dubbed Disney movies on VHS or theater
Great adaptation of songs though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x90JskM5DE
>>141291937
>Mangaka are highly respected in Japan, earning the same title as teachers and doctors.
Something I noticed. The "ka" means "writer". A literal translation would probably be "cartoonist", but the implication is that it's WRITING. Someone with the same job would probably be called a "comic artist" in the west. In other words, there's less emphasis put on it as story. The "ka" is also used in the word for "novelist".
There's also the obvious difference that "manga" and "cartoon" refer to drawings in general, which include animation, but "manga" has a slight implication towards still drawings and "cartoon" has a heavy implication towards animation specifically, not necessarily drawn things.
>>141291992
>>141292063
Going along with these, you're right that it's a definite difference in the way these creators are seen (language probably plays a part in that), but the term "sensei" doesn't really mean anything special. If we're being literal, it just means someone with more experience in a certain field.
>>141292311
>The "ka" means "writer"
No it doesn't. The 家 in mangaka denotes '-ist' as used in indicating someone's occupation or pursuits.
>>141271683
Anime has nothing to do with autism. Stop believing everything you read on the Internet.
>>141287527
Fluid animation doesn't count for anything if the character designs and camera work are dead simple.
>>141289623
Disney had very fluid animation, but that was the only thing they had over anime. And having fluid animation doesn't even mean anything by itself.
>>141291798
It wasn't.
I feel like Japan has a set a standard that America refuses to acknowledge.
>>141291442
Fuck man, I've never seen any disney stuff in HD. I might have to go find some BD rips of Tarzan and some other old disney movies now.
One thing that blows my mind is that Disney has shown the world how to seamlessly integrate CG with 2D animation on at least two occasions now with Beauty and the Beast (ballroom scene) and Tarzan, but nobody has followed their example. It's really quite simple: rely on computer shading as little as possible. Instead, paint textures (including shading) the same way you paint background mattes and apply the textures to your 3D models. This is what they did for the trees/vine surfing and it looks great. The manual texturing adds that missing imperfect human touch.
Most modern CG instead tries to mimic 2D purely through shaders and disfigured models and it looks like shit because that's really fucking hard to do right.
>>141292698
Treasure planet also makes amazing use of CG if I'm not mistaken
>>141292698
What should blow your mind more is that Disney demonstrated they have the capability to do things like that but didn't really make use of them beyond a scene here and there. "Well that was cool I guess, now let's go back to boring wide angle shots from the side." They had to switch to 3D animation to get out of that mindset.
