>Fighting magma robot
>Goes SS
>Not SS2/3/blue
>Gets ass handed to him
>Goku did the same shit
Why is everyone is this show retarded?
>>139272977
he got his ass handed to him because he didn't have no oxygen. SSJ is plenty to take out any of the fighters so far, aside from their gimmicks
they didn't go super saiyan blue because they're cautious of Hit, and don't want to show him all their cards before they have to.
>>139272977
>going all out
>for these fucking jobbers
Top tier tryhard logic.
>>139273057
Ok, Vegeta took Frost out in one hit. Goku could have done the same shit, but chose not to. Vegeta could have gone SSJ2 and still wouldn't have shown half of his "cards" to the enemy.
My point is, they're holding back for no good reason, other than the writers needing the fight to last more than a few seconds.
>>139273143
If you lose, it doesn't fucking matter if you tryharded or not. You still fucking lose.
>>139273327
>Goku could have done the same shit, but chose not to.
Goku likes fighting, he didn't expect to get poisoned.
>Vegeta could have gone SSJ2 and still wouldn't have shown half of his "cards" to the enemy.
SS2 and SS3 expend more power and thus more ki. While it wouldn't be showing all their cards, it waste more energy, meaning less energy for other contestants. It's why Goku didn't go Super Saiyan against Winnie the Pooh.
what part of "conserving energy" is so hard to get
staying super saiyan is relatively effortless but going cyan is hard work, doesn't last forever and leaves you tired and energyless for a while
>>139273473
>citation needed
>>139273522
hasn't every new form been difficult to preserve?
>>139273545
>applying old rules to uncharted territory
There was never any indication that SSJG or SSJBlue tires them at all.
>>139273327
Something established early on, is that all fighters in both universes realize that they need to hold back and guage their power through these fights, since they have to keep fighitng until the end.
If they go straight SSB from the start, they'll be out of energy by the third fight.
Magenta withstood Vegeta SSJ2's final flash that he charged up for ages head on while taking no damage. In the end Magenta only lost because the stage broke below him, which knocked him out of the ring, but his defensive power didn't lose out.
The people in the other universe aren't pushovers, and supposedly they're holding back as well at first. Even Frost thought he could get by in first or third form for awhile without having to cheat. Think about this from the other side; if you had been watching the guys from the other universe all this time, you'd be yelling at Frost instead for not immediately going fourth form, or yelling at Magenta for not immediately using Lava blast or explosion attack.
Both sides are generally holding back on things because they expect to fight for awhile without being able to take a break.
>>139273425
They have more than enough energy at this point to make their SS forms last for a century.
>>139274153
>*citation needed*
>>139274192
They've already been shown staying in SS2 form as if it's their base form.
>>139274313
>implying SS2 is relevant in a discussion about DBS
Toriyama's already said SSJ2 and SSJ3 will never happen again, so why even bring them up?
>>139274435
Because niggas can't get over MUH SPARKS and MUH HAIR.
I'd summon Shenron and wish a nigga would, but that's probably beyond his power.
>>139274435
>>139274678
He never said that, you mongloidal tumors.
>>139272977
I still don't understand how people don't realise that goku and veggie are fighting at their lowest level so they don't show how strong they are, just in case.
It's literally been like this through the who of dbz.
Hell, its even like this in real life, people don't show their best tricks unless they have to. Save it for when they need to.
Not to mention the guys want a challenge.
>>139273327
Going ss2 wouldn'tve changed much. They established at this point that the only stage worth going to is ss1.
>>139272977
>Eppisode shows clear reason why something hapened
>Anon still dosent get it
Just another day on /a/
>>139274313
As far as I remember the only time vegeta was shown as ss2 was when he was majin form. Every other time he transformed in the series canonically he was just normal ss.
>>139275184
Vegeta went Super Saiyan 2 against Kid Buu and most recently when MUH BULMA happened.
>>139275118
They said in this episode that it's because of Hit.
>>139274827
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/
>Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
Fuck off you idiot
>>139272977
Holy shit
It's been a while since I've seen OP not only eat his own words, but is proven to be more stupid than the shounen mcs that he is making fun of.
>there was no reason for any of this holding back bullshit
>this could have been the first literally even tournament ever
>nah lets have one universe a joke and our universe dick around to insult them
>>139275232
Nope
No sparks during "muh bulma"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7uDAVsxcOM
No sparks during BR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDpIcTaqjM0
The only time you see him all sparked up is during his fight with goku and fat buu.
>>139275286
So... Super Saiyan now = what Super Saiyan 3 used to be?
>>139275335
How does it feel to be so wrong?
>>139275335
>>139275376
>>139275341
No, SSJ3 is still more powerful but it consumes too much energy so it's inefficient.
>>139275335
>that gay trumpet music
DBZ was just plagued with bad music
>>139275335
I bet you think Gotenks didn't go Super Saiyan 2 too.
>>139275420
I'll take it over generic metal and rock or whatever the fuck that Falco guy was making
>>139275400
>>139275376
When are these from? Tbdf I've only read the manga once, I wonder why they didn't put the sparks in the anime.
Laziness?
>>139275450
Both OSTs had their highs. Falco's music was about 99% shit apart from the ssj3 theme and and a couple of others.
The trumpets in DBZ was just too much. It fit perfectly in dragonball but they just became ridiculous in later sagas.
>>139275436
Isn't that just him in between states? There's literally no official word on him in ssj2 form.
>>139275453
>When are these from?
The manga and Super
>Tbdf I've only read the manga once
And that's why you make dumb assumptions like that.
>I wonder why they didn't put the sparks in the anime.
>Laziness?
Yes. Toei hasn't changed with Super. It's just as lazy as it's always been, but now you have rookie animators compounding the problems.
>>139275495
Daizenshuu 7, 1996. Literally official word on this. Gotenks goes Super Saiyan 2, then moves right into 3.
>>139275290
I just don't see Hit being that strong unless he's the Goku of their universe who trained 24/7.
>>139275615
Careful. Your age is showing there, kid.
>>139275341
Like >>139275418 said, it's still stronger but SS2 and 3 consume too much energy to really be used, 3 specifically.
So instead of relying on temporary power ups, Goku is just training his normal state and Super Saiyan more since it's more energy efficient. Super Saiyan that's as strong as a SS3 > SS3 since Super Saiyan isn't going to tire you out in two minutes.
That being said, it's really just an excuse to not have SS2 and 3 show up anymore since he likely wants to keep it simple this time around, which is why SSG was just a red Goku instead of some cluttered mess and SSB is just SS with blue hair.
>>139275586
Yeah I mean i'm not the dude you were responding to initially but yeah I'm not going to argue that he did that once.
>>139275661
Aura and killing intent. They can sense it.
They know he is serious fucking business, and probably has something between a high power level and some hax power to go with it.
Honestly, he reminds me of that one villain in that DBXenoverse game
>>139275661
No he's the Legendary Super Phallus, he can only get an erection when he teleports behind you and cuts you in half with his 1 million times folded steel superior nihon katana while whispering "pssshhh, nothin personell saiyan."
>>139275400
That was the first time he faced a God though. Goku realized that it was inefficient after facing Beerus so it must have been the same for Vegeta.
>>139275495
>Isn't that just him in between states
>In between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3
>Not Super Saiyan 2
>>139275738
>not "pssshhh, nothin personell just saiyan."
So close
>>139275661
>implying he is not U6 Cell
Blew up earth, got bored, spent all his searching for strong people to fight, became a hitman.
>>139275744
Wasn't arguing that, was showing that Vegeta could and did go Super Saiyan 2.
>>139275376
>>139275436
>>139275400
>>139275335
I think Super Saiyan 2 is probably the stupidest 'transformation' in the entire DBZ universe from a design standpoint. Other than "muh sparks" you can't tell it apart from regular SS.
I like to think of it as not a separate transformation, but more of a "focused Super Saiyan". Think of it in terms of running
>SSJ1 is like running as opposed to jogging or something
>Full Power SSJ1 is training yourself so that you can run without taking a huge hit to your stamina
(In the real world, athletes who train in aerobics for extensive periods of time experience heightened states of rest: heart and respiratory rate are much lower than that of a normal person. This Super Saiyan form follows a similar fundamental concept: by remaining transformed for extended periods of time, the Super Saiyan can desensitize themselves to the negative effects of the transformation.)
~DBZ wiki
>SSJ Buff is like skipping instead of running
You make up for your lack of speed with muscle. Power bounds and the like. Though it's highly inefficient, you could still technically achieve higher speeds (i.e SSJ2 power) this way
>SSJ2 is like running faster, but more efficiently. Kind of like "focused running" so to speak. It's hard to explain I guess
>SSJ3 is full on sprinting which is why it expends so much energy
Now, these all refer to different running (i.e power up) techniques, but it doesn't mean that you can't achieve the power (or speed) of a higher form. An SSJ1 could be as strong as an SSJ3, but they're using different techniques to achieve that power (or speed)
>>139275751
yeah my choice of words wre pretty bad in hindsight but in my mind i was thinking of a fight of a scene of him in a SS2 state. That small panel is literally the only time we ever see him in that form which I respect as a true ss2 state.
>>139275855
I always thought that SSJ2 was going to be a Gohan thing because he was special, but then Cell got it, and then Goku and Vegeta got it and then Gotenks got it, and then Goku and Gotenks got SSJ3.
So fuck it.
>>139275786
I thought about U6 Cell, but I don't think U6 Earth had any Saiyans to steal DNA from unless we see a flashback of Frost being on Earth and the little Saiyan.
>>139275911
not a literal Cell, but same too cool for school tough guy archetype.
>>139275688
>which is why SSG was just a red Goku instead of some cluttered mess and SSB is just SS with blue hair.
To be completely honest I actually like this, because it's totally Toriyama's style of subverting expectations and shitting all over cliches.
Fans want some kind of buff beefy muscle monkey man with flowing hair that would make Fabio blush, Toriyama gives them a skinny redhead. Whiny fans want 2 and 3 and some kind of new 4, fuck that they're blue now. 2 and 3 were a mistake, he basically says.
Remember the only reason Goku's hair isn't black as a Super Saiyan is because Toriyama was tired of coloring in his hair. Toriyama is and always has been a lazy fuck, hell he even says so in the manga directly.
And I couldn't be happier about that. He's more fun that way.
>>139275855
This is basically what Toriyama says about the forms anyway >>139275286
>>139275786
>>139275911
>>139275941
I'd almost believe this given how hard his actor seems to be trying to mimic Norio Wakamoto's Cell.
Why the fuck is conserving energy suddenly so important. Hasn't pretty much everyone since all the way back in dragonball been able to go entire days fighting multiple opponents in a row before getting tired? Now suddenly everyones worried about having to so much as walk a few steps because they're so worried about running out of energy.
Seems to me like just a cheap way to make the stakes of this dumb arc feel higher since nobody is dying and there's nothing really on the line.
>>139276050
>everyone since all the way back in dragonball been able to go entire days fighting multiple opponents in a row before
Post the manga page and chapter, you are completely talking out of your ass. Energy conservation was always important in the series, including DB.
>>139272977
>that boring ass final flash
>>139276050
Not when said opponents have any actual fucking strength behind them.
All they know is that they're the strongest fighters in the other universe, nothing else.
>>13927605
>Hasn't pretty much everyone since all the way back in dragonball been able to go entire days fighting multiple opponents in a row before getting tired?
I don't think that ever happened, the opposite however has happened in pretty much every major fight, against Vegeta, against Frieza, Cell and Buu.
>>139276050
better than popping senzu beans all the time or having undead hax.
I really wish Toriyama didn't write Buu out of this arc. His fights would've been so much fun.
>>139276126
Yeah, I feel like he made a huge mistake on that front.
But then, he could probably one shot most of them by turning them into candy right away.
>>139276050
Conserving energy has been important ever since Super Saiyan 3 was introduced. Super Saiyan 3 caused Gotenks to only last 5 minutes instead of 30, remember? Goku mentions that he can never use SS3 for very long because it tires him the fuck out.
For this tournament in particular though? Because it's fucking survival rules. You have to fight and then immediately fight again. You don't want to blow your entire load immediately and then get bodied in the second round. You also don't want to let your opponents know your trump cards early.
>>139276125
Senzu beans are literally the "This battle has no real consequence" button.
I'll watch every piece of DB material that is ever released for nostalgia, I think, but it really has shit storytelling.
I find myself skipping all the fight scenes, and just listening to the main plot points of each episode.
>>139276169
It feels like Buu could've soloed everyone but Hit, maybe. Still it would've been fun seeing someone else do something for once other than Goku or Vegeta.
>>139276050
If you are talking about all this ssj transformations and shit, I would agree and point out it's just a way to dismiss ssj2 and ssj3 without worrying about showing them. I mean, what would even be the point of ever going into a battle regular if you had all these other transformations at your fingertips?
But if you are talking about the current battle, then it's more about secret trump cards and shit.
Noble Phantasms, "that" techniques, forbidden techniques, ect.
If they know what your best moves are, then you lose the element of surprise and they get a chance to prepare to counteract it.
>>139276090
Im pretty sure all the world tournaments regularly involved multiple fights per day.
As for DBZ, Nappa fought like 5 people in a row without any breaks, Vegeta fought 4 right after that, Freiza fought a ton of people, Cell did, Buu did.
I'm not saying characters never got tired before super, but now in super it's suddenly all they talk about, even though all the characters are supposed to be stronger than ever now.
>>139276192
>I find myself skipping all the fight scenes, and just listening to the main plot points of each episode.
I pray for you.
>>139276228
SS2 is tricky since they've never really complained about it, though it makes sense that you can maintain it less than normal SS, but it's been a thing since SS3 was pulled out that it's time limit is shit and it's a bit of a double edged sword because of it.
>>139276211
Yeah, I have no idea why Toriyama made Goku and Veggie his babies.
I get that they're Saiyans, but from a story perspective, he could have fucking made Krillin unlock some arbitrary "super monk" powers or some shit, and have another character in on the fray.
I'm bored with Goku and Vegeta always coming to save the day, and Goku ALWAYS being objectively stronger.
>>139276256
Only the prelims.
>Nappa fought like 5 people in a row without any breaks, Vegeta fought 4 right after that, Freiza fought a ton of people, Cell did, Buu did.
Note that these all happened when the opponents they faced were way weaker than them.
Goku and Vegeta don't know how strong the Universe 6 guys are.
>>139276294
>Goku ALWAYS being objectively stronger.
seems like this is less of a thing at the moment.
>>139276260
SSJ2 was always elusive, right down to appearance. It was always hard for me to tell when the characters were SSJ2, and when they were just SSJ.
I had to pay close attention to how spikey their hair was and maybe lightning around them. That's about it.
Only Pre-teen Gohan had a clear indication what his SSJ and SSJ2 form was.
>>139276295
.....when the people fighting them is significantly weaker than them, you don't go all out you idiot.
>>139276192
>Senzu beans are literally the "This battle has no real consequence" button.
No actually, that would be the eponymous dragon balls. Although I suppose senzu beans do basically the same thing. And even when those things weren't enough, Toriyama just writes a new, better set of dragon balls into the story. And then on top of that, he upgrades the original dragon balls for no reason too. And when he runs out of dragon balls, he just makes it so kais can bring you back to life.
DBZ in general is the most "this entire series has no consequences" show. There's countless ways to avoid death. Even if you die, there's countless ways to come back. And even if there's no way to come back, being dead is basically no different from being alive.
>>139276112
And it will happen in this arc too, because it's the easy way to make things exiting, we're just getting moths of wind up.
>>139276343
Way to completely miss the point, dumbass.
The point was, since their opponents were weak as shit compared to them, they could face multiple ones at the same time.
And even then, none of them every went all out until they went solo with someone who could take it.
Goku and Vegeta do not know how strong these guys are, and are basically testing them to figure that out.
>>139276211
Magetta is definitely stronger, Frost was strong enough to be above base Goku.
>>139276294
I think Vegeta is supposed to be stronger now.
>>139276410
Hope so, since Frieza fight proved how he should have stacked again Vegeta and Goku, minus cheating
>>139276404
Most of the people in DBZ who fought entire groups of enemies didn't know how strong those people they were fighting were either.
And those were life or death fights, not safe controlled tournament fights, so they should have had even more reason to be careful, but still hardly if ever cared about conserving energy.
Is it so hard to admit DBZ is just a badly written series, and super is even worse?
You're a spic aren't you.
>>139276211
>>139276410
>>139276451
I don't think Buu could've soloed shit. Just like how Frost and Poo were shit in the U6 team, i'm pretty sure Piccolo and Buu were the worst fighters in U7.
The robot, Cabba and Hit are probably much stronger than Buu and Piccolo.
>>139276468
When did they ever fight multiple people who weren't obvious gooks?
>>139276512
The entire main cast of characters.
>>139276468
Yeah, they did.
Nappa and Vegeta had scouters, Frieza had already fodderized everyone in his Third Form and was a huge egotistic anyway, Cell could sense power levels and Buu just kind of never gave a fuck regardless.
Is it so hard to admit that you're trying too hard to hop on the 'everything Toriyama writes is shit' train and start actually paying attention?
You're a retard, aren't you?
>>139276411
>>139276313
True, Vegeta did get the 6 month head start on Goku and somehow became a Super Saiyan God on his own, but knowing the DB series, Goku will come in and save the day.
>Goku gets beaten by Frieza (on a technicality)
>Vegeta steps in to finish him
>Goku STILL gets the finishing blow
>Goku loses his match with Frost (on a technicality)
>Refs realize Frost is cheating and Goku is back in the tournament
>now he's after Vegeta
>HOW CONVENIENT FOR THE PLOT
Also
Has Goku ever even lost a fight? Like, I'm talking not on a technicality, not on a "I can't beat you, I quit", not on a "Oh shit my heart", not on a dirty laser shot from a henchman -- I'm talking, like actually getting the shit kicked out of him, and not being able to do anything.
>inb4 Superman
I'm excluding the original DB because I didn't even watch that.
>>139276539
That's not a moment in DBZ. Give examples, anon
>>139276410
Only way Buu could have beaten Magetta is by calling him names. And if he did that his buddy Hercule might get upset, and he doesn't want to make Hercule upset.
Honestly I can see Buu and Magetta getting along great once the Tournament's over.
>>139276557
>but knowing the DB series, Goku will come in and save the day.
most likely. probably why Vegeta is getting his time to shine now.
>>139276557
Great Ape Vegeta fucked him up pretty hard and Cell beat him too.
>>139276557
He lost to Beerus and lost to Frieza you twit. He also lost to Frost if you haven't bee paying attention.
>>139276576
I already did list the examples. You dismissed them by claiming that apparently the likes of Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, and all those other characters are apparently "obvious gooks" now.
>>139276502
Buu has insane regeneration, body manipulation and fucking magic. He would've done fine.
>>139276557
TaoPaiPai, Radditz, Vegeta, Frieza, Cell Jr and Beerus all fucked him up.
>>139276557
>Like, I'm talking not on a technicality, not on a "I can't beat you, I quit", not on a "Oh shit my heart", not on a dirty laser shot from a henchman -- I'm talking, like actually getting the shit kicked out of him, and not being able to do anything.
TaoPaiPai
Tambourine
King Piccolo
Raditz (technically Piccolo)
Oozaru Vegeta
Sort of Kid Buu?
Beerus
>>139276557
>>Refs realize Frost is cheating and Goku is back in the tournament
>>now he's after Vegeta
>>HOW CONVENIENT FOR THE PLOT
Because of this I don't think we'll see Monaka fight. Monaka will be the new gag of an opponent we never get to see fight.
>>139276601
Fuck, I forgot to add the Jr.
I meant Cell Jr. not regular Cell.
>>139276637
I don't think regeneration would've been useful against Mageta's fire, and if Mageta is stronger than him his magic would've been useless just like when pic related happened.
>>139276544
But almost everything Toriyama writes is shit. I enjoyed it as a child, but now that I'm not a stupid kid I can see how much the story is riddled with plotholes, simple logic errors, deux ex machinas and all kinds of other bad writing staples.
Hopefully someday you'll wise up and be able to see them too,though I'm not getting my hopes up you dumb spic.
>>139276710
Thanks for addressing literally nothing I said and insulting me, really puts you on the right side of the argument.
Also
>He doesn't think what I'm bitching about is wrong
>Must think the series is absolutely perfect
Fuck off.
>>139276601
>Great Ape Vegeta
You right
>Cell
Nah, he quit there
>>139276611
>Beerus
You right
>Frieza
That was a technicality. He didn't beat Goku 1 on 1
>Frost
Again, technicality, Goku could have kicked his ass if he wasn't literally a radish farmer
>>139276659
I said I was excluding the original DB because I didn't watch that.
>Raditz
Don't really count that as "losing" more like a "I'm desperate to save my son and this is the only thing that's a sure kill"
>>139276661
You realize monaka is just motivation for Goku and Vegeta and really isn't strong at all, right?
>>139276687
>>I don't think regeneration would've been useful against Mageta's fire
His clone move could be useful since Magetta can only fire in one direction.
> if Mageta is stronger than him his magic would've been useless just like when pic related happened.
It's possible, yeah.
I just really wish Buu had another fight.
>>139276733
>Thanks for addressing literally nothing I said and insulting me
No problem, stupid spic.
>>139276749
I added >>139276685 that I meant Cell Jr, not Cell, my bad.
Nah, Raditz counts, there was nothing Goku could've done in that fight to win.
>>139276749
>That was a technicality. He didn't beat Goku 1 on 1
You're right, he beat Goku 1 v 4.
>Don't really count that as "losing"
Definitively counts, Raditz is the one that lost on a technicality.
>>139276654
>>139276659
It's sad that out of all those TaoPaiPai was the most "shonen defeat" of them all. The kind where he loses his confidence and trains to improve as a fighter and as a person. The rest are just like "oh, well, I lost, lulz, it happens."
>>139276749
>I said I was excluding the original DB because I didn't watch that.
And I'm listing them anyway because they still count. You SHOULD watch it some time.
Idiots forgetting Jackie Chun also beat him as well.
>>139276705
your forgot your "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
>>139276811
lol nah, DB as a series is shit. I'm just watching Super because nostalgia, there's no other anime worth watching RN
>>139276842
You should watch it anyway.
>>139276633
No, bad guys they took out in hordes that weren't gooks. A lot of the battles Goku, Vegeta and many others usually take on their opponents one on one. Even the Resurrection of F makes it so they have a reason why characters won't team up to take down other characters.
Basically if they aren't boss level at first glance, then they don't even warrant a team up, much less not being mopped up by the DBZ gang solo, like in Resurrection of F.
>>139276842
DB is better than DBZ imho. The story isn't a constant cycle of "this enemy is so powerful I can't do anything! Oh wait I've suddenly gained a new form and now I win!" like DBZ. But if you don't wanna that's fine.
>>139276830
That was actually one of my favorite fights in the franchise.
>Won because Goku's a short fucker.
I lel everytime.
>>139276830
Technically that was a tie. He and Goku were down for the 10 count. That was a fucking cool fight, though.
>>139276842
>calling DB shit,
>haven't even watched the original pre Z arcs
>>139276917
>Technically that was a tie. He and Goku were down for the 10 count.
Didn't Chun get up last second to win the tournament?
>>139276953
Nope, they both were down for the 10. The referee basically said whoever stood up first and said 'I am the champion' would win and Chun did.
>>139276953
Nope, both were down for the 10 count. The Announcer guy stated that because there has to be a champion, the first to stand up and declare themselves champ would do it. Goku almost did, stopping at the last syllable. Jackie Chun said the whole thing.
>>139276842
0/10
You can do better than that, anon
>>139276830
By the same account Tien beat Goku too, though Goku clearly would have won had he not touched the "ground" first.
>>139276981
>>139276989
thanks its been a while.
We have to continue the tradition, guys.
In DB, Krillin died once. In DBZ, Krillin died twice.
First for Krillin dying three times in Super.
>>139277025
Both Goku and Tien are incapacitated. Jackie still has more stamina than Goku so he can finish. It's a hair's wide but he was better.
Hopefully they pull their thumb out and make the animation better soon.
>>139276883
I'm not talking about teamups, i'm talking about those extended fights where one character took on several opponents in a row without complaining about conserving their energy every 5 seconds.
Like Vegeta in the saiyan saga. That was one of my favorite fights because of how bloody, drawn out and grueling it was. Vegeta takes on Goku, Gohan, Krillin and even Yaijirobe to a degree. Everyone goes through different forms, stages and strategies and is left a bloody, almost crippled mess by the end. And Vegeta wasn't holding back and constantly crying about being tired, he was just going all out in a life or death struggle.
So now when I read this tournament with Vegeta, and there's virtually no real struggle, I can only see this sudden emphasis on conserving energy as a cheap, dumb way to make it seem like there's tension when there isn't really any.
>>139277105
It's a 1v1 tournament where once you run out of energy, you're fucked.
Not a 1vblank where everyone's trying to kill you.
>>139277105
Are they allowed to eat senzu beans? If they could, it really makes everything retarded.
>>139277210
Everyone should have nuclear amounts of energy at this point.
>>139277105
Again, it's less about conserving energy, and more of trying to get by with everything but showing your trump card in front of people who might actually pose a problem >>139275290
>>139277234
So could the other side.
>>139277210
>Not a 1vblank where everyone's trying to kill you.
But you're even MORE fucked if you run out of energy in that situation. But nobody ever complained about their energy back then, because it was never a problem.
Yet somehow now that they've trained to be as powerful as fucking gods, they're afraid to spend even 5 minutes fighting at like 10% of their full capacity.
>>139277262
What good will hiding their "trump cards" do? They change their hair color, and then do all the same stuff just better.
It's just bad writing.
>>139277291
They aren't complaining about it.
They're noting that it's a possibility, which is admittedly more thought than they usually put into shit, but it's not completely unfounded.
>>139277291
I suppose the sudden increase in strength and speed between SS and SSG would give a surprise advantage.
I bet you Vegeta and Goku will go SSG and still try to "feel out" their opponent, instead going all out and trying to win as fast as possible after the change.
>>139276557
>I'm excluding the original DB because I didn't even watch that
people like you are the reason these threads are always derailed by same questions and arguments.
>>139273473
>conserving energy
>gets tired in ss1
clearly thats not how its meant to work, would of been so much better to turn blue and 1 shot, shouldn't even take him more than 2 seconds.
why did goku lose his regenaration ability he had in the beerus fight, that could heal open wounds? He could easly used that when he got shot by the lazer, and when he got poisoned.
so should i be watching the series or is the manga no longer in works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdkWPnlQ4g
This is way better then SSG or SSGSS or any of that shit.
>>139280295
Because SSBlue isn't anywhere near as strong as SSG. SSG is a God form, SSBlue is some of the God power combined with SSJ.
Toryiama flat out stated he picked blue as a colour because he wanted something weaker than red, yet retards still don't understand that SSBlue isn't as strong as SSG. Want more proof? SSG clashing with Beerus would destroy the universe, SSBlue clashing with Golden Frieza did no such thing.
>>139275341
If you mean in terms of powerlevels then no, it's incredibly more powerful since Goku and Vegeta made god ki their own.
>>139275418
>After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength
>>139275418
>>139275688
>>139275688
Have you read the fucking interview
>After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength
> Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength
>Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength
>Super Saiyan would raise his level more
>>139272977
>Thinks SSJ2 and 3 are relevant.
Shit, how on Earth do people still not know those forms are worth shit?
>>139275118
See this is what i don't get. Why does it matter if they know how strong you are? You're either strong enough or not.
What if Vegeta beats Cabba to an inch of his life repeatedly to Zenkai boost him until he achieves SSJ?
>they can eat and drink between matches
>let's not eat senzu beans just because
Admit it, Toriyama is a hack.
>>139281412
Not him, but I thought super saiyan blue was basically going super saiyan while in god form
>>139282940
If Toryiama remembers it exists, probably.
>gets beaten almost to death over and over
>finally goes SSJ
>Vegeta still wrecks him in SSBlue
That'd be very very mean.
>>139285771
Vegeta is a very mean man.
>>139276917
No I disagree as that being a tie. The way I saw it, Jackie Chun gave Goku a chance to win but, it couldn't say the entire phrase and collapsed but, if you noticed how Jackie Chun then sprung up and easily declared he was the champion, I'd say he definitely won that fight / had way more energy at the end of it.
>>139272977
He's Vegeta.
>>139275286
>tfw they already did this in Cell Saga
>>139276050
After killing got killed first time Home lost to tamperine caus he was tired from the world tournament
Goku often complains about being hungury for his reason for not fighting in dragonball
>>139286331
The issue with these forms was kinda different. Wasn't it simply that the boost in power you got wasn't worth the speed you'd have to give up for it?
>>139286631
It was about how Goku & Gohan decided to go for efficiency instead of simply increasing power. That's why they went & spent the entire few days outside the HTC in SSJ form.
>people seriously discussing this piece of shit series
Die hard fans are really mentally retarded.
>Thinking SS2 and 3 are still a thing
I want this meme to end, please
>>139286114
>>139286277
That's the point of Vegetable
I like Dragon Ball Super!
>>139288217
Alright calm down love
>>139286927
nyerrrrrrrrrrrrrr
OH SHIT
>>139290579
Fucking FINALLY
I love the guys and gals at funi but holy shit what were they doing waiting this long.
>>139290579
>tfw Heroes cast is better than this
>>139281552
It could be saying training in base raises his level more, and training in SS saps energy less.
>>139282940
>>139290579
hopefully Funi just start from the start of the u6 tournament
>dismiss all powerups that were established before Super that worked perfectly fine against enemies stronger than they Saiyans
>everyone thinks this is a good thing
No one in Z ever complained about SSJ2 draining too much energy, that was a SSJ3 thing. The only reason Cell was ever beaten was because of SSJ2.
The whole SSJ2 is irrelevant meme needs to die. It's just an excuse to not having to animate lightning.
I've only been reading the manga version
Who's left?
In mine we have goku and piccolo out in univ 7 and poo and blue frieza out on the other team. Although vegeta wants to fight blue frieza but I'm guessing he's gonna beat him easy.
>>139291639
The manga is now behind the anime, comparing, the manga with the anime, the manga is tecnically episode 34 of the anime, and previous week, episode 36 aired.
>>139290637
What happened to them doing the Kai's Buu saga anyway? I wonder if they're just not bothering with it now?
>>139290579
FINALLY FUCKING FI-NA-LLY
I've been waiting so long for this garbage to get dubbed so I can FINALLY watch it! What the fuck were Funi thinking waiting this long? It's DBZ for fucks sake!! It's a crime to be left with the nip voices for almost a year, it means most of the world can't watch it and thats a serious loss in money.
>>139276294
>Krillin will never get Roshi's massive gains mode
>>139291167
If everyone was so obsessive over efficiently, why not get Old Kai to dance around them too? Surely not everyone has Gohan level potential but Mystic Gohan is stronger yet more efficient than SSJ3. Overlap SSG & Mystic & SSB's be obsolete and no one would need to animate anything but base form anymore.
>>139292072
I didn't know there are people who still called it Mystic.
>>139292039
why the fuck are you so excited about it? the show its terrible dumbass
>>139292410
Doesn't matter its still DBZ and I KNOW Sean Schemmel will at least make the show 10x more watchable.
>>139292410
The show is great.
The animation is bad.
Funi can fix that.
>>139292039
>Ameripleb: the post
>>139275286
So from what I gather with what Toriyama said, SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just crutch forms. Good for the inexperienced, but the SSJ1 form is the most efficient and has the highest growth depending on how much time you spend refining it. Makes me wonder if the same applies to Ascended SSJ1, since it still SSJ1 but shifts the form's speed to power.
Wouldn't that make Ascended SSJ1 the most physically powerful form, potential wise, outside of Cyan?
>>139293614
Probably, but the most useful is still Full Power Super Saiyan. Complete control over the form, without it being too draining to use.
Plus the physical buff from Ascended probably isn't enough of a difference, especially when Blue is available.
They kept dropping those hints. I'm ready.
>>139293872
I just wonder if Saiyans from different universes could fuse.
I hope Whis and Vados purposefully withholding information still continues. Shit's hilarious.
>>139293614
Let's be honest, he's pulling this out of his ass
>>139294716
Like he always does, really.
>>139294716
>>139294788
It's funny how retards like >>139293614
Take the made up bulshit tori says seriously, bet they also believe android 17 is a park ranger
>>139294912
The point in since the very beginning Tori's been pulling shit out of his ass. It was bullshit back then and it's bullshit now, the only difference is now the series is finished. Doesn't mean you should take it any less seriously.
>>139294912
Of course he is. Just because Toriyama makes this shit up doesn't mean it's wrong. It's funny. It's supposed to be.
Or sometimes it actually does give some minor bits of depth to characters.
16 is based on Gero's son, a Red Ribbon soldier who was shot on the battlefield. Gero, in his grief, made the machine a behemoth beyond even 17 and 18's strength, the ultimate weapon to destroy Son Goku. But the lingering shred of humanity left in him prevented him from completing 16's bloodthirsty programming, because he couldn't bare seeing "his son" going out on the "front lines" again, to die once more. 16 was incomplete. Because Gero refused to complete him.
>>139295053
Exactly, I honestly believe it's just away to cut back the animation (let's be honest ssb and ss1 look the same), and with the shit storm that happened last time goku went ss3 garentees we'll never see it again
>no one remembers this either
>>139295170
Did tori say this? Sounds way too interesting to come from that washed up faggot
>>139295170
>>139295317
thats great storytelling so no way tory said it
>>139295317
He actually did in some of the side materials.
>>139295503
Soooo random bits and pieces of bullshit fans scrapped together huh?
>>139295783
If by that you mean some Q & A session in one of the volumes, yes.
No, he's actually a very badman
>Goku was poisoned
Comes back on the torunament
>Piccolo was poisoned
Disqualified
>>139295783http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-03/
>>139293614
>Just crutch forms
Then why the FUCK does he keep introducing new forms?
Like Holy shit, the first SSJ would have been just fine, and then SSJ2 would have been great if it was a Gohan-only thing. No brows was nothing but fanservice, and this whole God BS is just that. BS.
Though, I will say that I absolutely LOVE the design of SSJblue
>>139296461
He wasnt disqualified at the beginning, it was Vegetal who told Piccolo to quit.
>>139296505
>love Blue
>>139290579
they haven't released DBKai the final chapters yet they are advertising this? lel
>>139297453
Dragonball is for fags, read naruto
>>139296550
>tfw Piccolo is getting shafted this hard
It's just like Toriyama's original Buu Saga plans were changed & what GT did.
>>139273057
>because they're cautious of Hit
This is the most retarded reason ever.
Why is this series still going?
>>139297990
Because Toriyama.
>>139296422
>he never wore these clothes again
>they aren't even in any games
>not even piccolos nor gokus clothes from the driving episode aren't in any games
kill me now
>>139276885
You should rewatch DB
>>139297990
Evolution happened.
Toriyama tried to warn Hollywood but they didn't listen to him.
Then Toei wanted to make a dark and edgy movie and Toriyama said 'fuck that' and rewrote the script into BoG.
The guy has outright said that he thought he was finished with Dragon Ball, but he can't stand and let others handle it.
>>139298768
Considering how things Toei ignored such as Toriyama's suggestions that Frieza recruited special space mercinaries into his ranks, potentially justifying why that Red guy can defeat Piccolo & more, I see why.
>>139285771
He already made poor Magetta cry
>>139298768
Which is weird because he let them do GT.
>>139300184
That was a younger, more tolerant Toriyama.
Now, he's an old man who doesn't give a fuck about saying the anime quality sucks in his intro message to the latest fanbook.
Poor robot.
;_;
>>139298768
That's funny because when he handles it, it really isn't any better.
>>139297508
Frost did nothing wrong
So is the anime still terrible? Should I read the manga instead?
>>139275855
>>SSJ2 is like running faster, but more efficiently. Kind of like "focused running" so to speak. It's hard to explain I guess
Think of yourself running for about 100m (~100 yard) at your top speed while trying not to lose the bus. When the last person on the bus stop is about to enter the vehicle you still have more 50 meters to run, the bus driver starts pushing the accelerator and suddenly you become Usain Bolt for 5s and manage to catch the bus before the door closes behind the guy who just entered.
When you sit down you are literally about to puke your lungs out. That's what SSJ2 feels like for the first time.
>>139302212
The anime is getting okay parts, or good, good for Toei standarts, you can see that on the episode 36, and the manga is only until the Frost vs Vegeta fight, which is the equivalent of the episode 34 of the anime.
be honest guys.. this is terrible, why haven't you dropped it yet? as for myself, I have no fucking idea why I'm still watching
>>139274435
>>139274827
>>139275286
How does it feel to be so wrong?
I wish Toei could some how replicate Toyotaro's vision.
If only the manga had time to create content ahead of schedule it would be animated better.
Why do people fight about the SS forms when they're all shit?
SS1: Hitler would be proud
SS2: SS with sparks. Without sparks, it cannot be told apart from SS1 besides Cell Saga Gohan.
SS3: Ugliest, most useless, piece of shit form. No accomplishments, no relevance, no eye brows.
SS4: Magic pants + eye makeup + Nickelback emo 90's style. Shit
SSG: More like Super anorexic magenta Saiyan with sharingan amirite?
SSB: SS Hair + SS2 muscles and sparks+ BLUE
>>139302468
>I have no fucking idea why I'm still watching
You're not the only one.
>>139302626
Toyotaro actually runs his storyboards through Toriyama first and listen to his corrections so it's naturally to be better than the anime
>>139303670
I'm so stoked to see what we have in store for us in their new interview in Vol 1 of the Manga.
>>139273473
If the fight against Golden Frieza is any indication, Goku and Vegeta have a good enough handle on SSB to not tire out with it too quickly. Frieza's golden form followed the rule you're citing, but they explained why that rule stands and what they did to overcome it with their blue form.
>>139303670
That's the thing, the manga is actually more loyal to what Toriyama wanted thus things would make more sense.
>>139304128
If RoF was any indication, Frieza never stood a chance unless he blew up the planet. Goku & Vegeta both played around with him.
>>139275979
But now the skinny weak looking guy who everybody thinks is a joke is actually the sttongest is a cliche too. It's not even a new cliche.
>>139304775
My problem with the transformations is that they would have been more distinct designs who too looked weaker. Frieza for example, his final form is shorter than his second, far less monstrous than his third, yet still his strongest (pre-gold) and distinct from his first form. Cell's forms are all differently shaped with the last one being the most human looking. Buu didn't look like any of the previous villains either.
>>139304947
*could
>>139302793
>when they're all shit
SSJ1 could just have be fine.
>>139276169
Yea writing Buu out was a huge missed opportunity. Buu vs Frost would of been a really good fight.
>>139293872
i really wish tori would just make them fuse permanently and live with the decision. having both personalities battle eachother from time to time would be amazing.
>>139308313
How would they handle their families?
>>139273143
>All those jobbers
But Vegeta isnt a jobber
>inb4 pic related
>>139308341
shipperfags can finally get their goku x bulma.
>>139310159
whoever made this image seems salty
>>139310159
no he's a midcarder. Krillin is job squad for life
That was retarded, but it is also retarded how Goku and Piccolo are out of the tournament when someone cheated because Vegeta wants to show off because he is the prince of of less than 10 people.
>>139273057
>they didn't go super saiyan blue because they're cautious of Hit, and don't want to show him all their cards before they have to.
>IN THE NEXT EPISODE OF DRAGON BOWL SUUUPPPA
>VEGETA IS CORNERED AGAINST A NEWBORN SUPER SAIYAN THAT IS A TEENAGER!!
>VEGETA IS FORCED TO BE SUPER SAIYAN BLUE!
>DONT MISS OUT ON THE BLALBLABLA IN DRAGON BOWL SUPA
Yes, so much for the not showing all cards.
Nipples is still there anyways.
>>139312664
Goku isn't out of the tournament, just Piccolo
>>139312739
not him but why didn't Champa fight that. He's just like yeah ok whatever.
Guys
Guys
What if DB Super...
Guys
What if DB Super took place after GT...
Guys
and there were no god forms...
and the animation didn't suck
>>139312813
Frost got caught cheating.
The one who should be pissed is Beerus since he just lost another fighter, Buu wasn't allowed to compete and he brought Monaka just to make Goku and Vegeta train harder.
>>139272977
Are you retarded? did you not watch his and Goku's interaction after the fight?
They are purposely not using their full potential to save energy for Hit.
>>139312883
>taking place after non-canon spin off.
yeah no thanks.
>>139297808
Being worried that a fighter is potentially very powerful and wanting to preserve as much energy as possible to combat him is retarded?
Your autism is showing.
>>139282690
are you that one anon that's always like "but ssj3 never won a fight"? If you are, just shut up. SSJ3 isn't incapable of winning.
>>139279474
He was out of breath because the barrier was being heated and running out of oxygen, not because he was tired. It's like you didn't even watch the show.
>>139302793
>SS2: SS with sparks. Without sparks, it cannot be told apart from SS1 besides Cell Saga Gohan.
Not just the sparks, even though TOEI and Toriyama in the manga forgot about those sometimes after "Kid" Gohan. The hair is spikier, SS hair isn't that spikier, just gets more detailed with time or with them mastering SSJ.
For example USSJ(or whatever it is called the muscles Trunks) had spiky hair like the SSJ2 too. SSJ2 seemed a better version of that with that strenght or more+speed.
Anyways, Super Saiyan was enough, the SS2 should just be a final version of SS1.
With the last 2 movies I actually thought Toriyama would go back to base form finally since Super forms drains ki overtime, but nope.
>>139281412
Except you're wrong. It's outright stated that SSB is stronger than SSG
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_God_Super_Saiyan
