Any closing thoughts on Fate/stay night: Unlimited blade Works (2014)?
>>134855908
That art is painful to look at.
>>134855908
Any route where illya doesn't win is a shit route.
>>134856035
Any reality in which Illya exists is a shit reality.
Disappointment
It met every expectation I had and actually surpassed them in several ways.
I don't mean this ironically.
Hated Shiro's autism about being a hero of justice. And the fact they kept prattling about it throughout the whole series. Some conversations feel like they are literally saying the same shit and they keep doing it over and over.
Its shit. So it matches the source material.
It was fun watching it with you, /a/.
IT was good.
>>134855908
Yes, after you check em.
Shitty OST, shity animation, Shirou vs Archer was disappointing and worse than the movie version.
Can't wait for Heaven's Feel.
>>134856325
Terrible opinion.
>>134855908
What is there left to say?
It was a shit adaptation that's best forgotten about, just like DEEN.
>>134856396
Put your trip on.
>>134856059
Look at the wormfag try to deflect.
>>134856035
This
>tfw no Illya route
>>134855908
UBW is ~210k words long. F/Z is ~310k words long. This is why the UBW anime has such a huge pacing problem when compared to F/Z's anime.
On that note, there were a lot of moments to the anime that I felt really shined through, with Saber and Archer vs Berserker and Shirou vs Gil being two of the greatest action scenes I've ever seen. But in the grand scheme of things and when you look at all the criticism people have about UBW, I have to say I do agree with a lot of it and it's now my least favorite route of FSN now, though something I still really enjoy.
I'm certainly hyped for HF.
>>134856468
>tfw nobody realizes HF was the Illya route
>>134856498
>This is why the UBW anime has such a huge pacing problem when compared to F/Z's anime
Fate/Zero had significantly worse pacing than UBW, especially in the first season.
>>134856566
They both had pacing issues but UBW's were more glaring.
>>134856655
Certainly disagree there. Zero's pacing is screwy. The first fight of the war doesn't happen until episode four. The entire first season builds up to a conflict with Caster that doesn't even happen until season two.
Do we even have to mention the fact that they dedicated an entire episode to lol Rin being a detective?
UBW hits you right at the start, with action scenes in 0, 1, and beyond. Likewise, there's an actual climax with Caster that happens at the end of the first season. Shirou loses Saber and is reduced to his lowest point.
>>134856566
UBW's first season had good pacing (though some would argue that it didn't have good plot progression, though I attribute that more to confirmation bias since you had people bitching about the pacing of episode 4 of UBW right after how amazing episode 3 was when F/Z didn't even have a proper action scene until episode 4, and it was no where near FSN's level), but the second season has god awful pacing. Episode 19 has scenes where the VA's intentionally take longer pauses between talking for the sake of padding.
>>134855908
I am infinite butthurt works about how badly they adapted Shirou vs Archer and care fuckall for everything else.
>>134856498
This. Having never read the VN, it felt like they were fitting a show that should have been 52 episodes long into one that is just 26 episodes long.
The pacing was awful, Shirou is the most obnoxious prattering little shit ever, and I miss Iskandar.
Zero was better by far.
>>134856325
Terrible bait.
>>134856753
There were some slow episodes in season two, but overall I think it evens out once you consider that they did spend roughly 90 minutes on the first three days for season one.
I mean 19 itself was a very important episode, even if it was pretty talky.
Better than DEEN's shit.
>>134856776
You started at the second story of something without having read the first. You fucked up.
Reminder that Sakura can't have children.
>>134856850
This. Honestly, ufotable didn't do a perfect adaptation, but it's going to be the best we're going to get. It's not as bad as anon says it is. It was actually pretty damn good.
Another shitposting thread, you guys are on fire today. Check em
>>134856988
Checked senpai.
>>134856988
WITNESSED
>>134856753
UBW cour 2's pacing was really bad.
>>134856908
Zero was the prequel. Sure I missed a few plot twists, but Kirei being evil and Saber being King Arthur wasn't going to save UBW.
It just was a worse anime, its story was stupid, its protagonist was almost completely unlikable, half the time the Servants get owned by random Mages, and the feel is far less epic.
Zero had a "Holy Grail War", and it had a cool set up, epic characters, and larger then life Servants.
UBW felt like Digimon. Just, waifu shit and the occasional okay fight scene.
Its not terrible by any means, but nothing in UBW stands out the way say, the fight between Gilgamesh and Rider does, or Saber completely destroying Caster's monster with Excalibur.
Not to mention they somehow got the pacing even worse then Fate/Zero, which is the anime that for some stupid ass reason paused the climax a few episodes to the end to give the protag's backstory all in one go.
Which is another thing, Kiritsugu honestly did the whole hero of justice thing way way better then Shirou did. Don't care how much flak I'll get for that, its the truth.
>>134856988
Best post in the whole thread tbhf.
>>134856776
>it felt like they were fitting a show that should have been 52 episodes long into one that is just 26 episodes long
Uh what? UBW has the exact opposite problem. They took something that should have been 20 episodes long at best and stretched it to 27. There's a reason the DEEN anime ended up having to mix in components from the other routes to account for run time of the full two seasons.
>>134857117
What the fuck is this formatting?
>Zero was the prequel. Sure I missed a few plot twists, but Kirei being evil and Saber being King Arthur wasn't going to save UBW.
Zero's spoilers are most relevant to HF, which leans on the mystery surrounding Sakura for a good chunk of its first half.
.
Despite not caring for the UBW adaptation, I'm still really hype for HF.
As long as they nail the Ilya scenes, I'm good.
>>134857224
I think he meant F/SN as a whole. To a secondary with no knowledge of the route format the way Rider is killed off and Sakura, Kirei, etc neglected it probably seems like a problem with too little runtime.
>>134857117
>Zero was the prequel
Zero is a prequel to FSN as a whole, not just UBW. The very reason UBW was picked to animate was because people already knew the Fate route because it had a full anime, and is just generally well know.. You chose to ignore that though, and you think you have a leg to stand on here?
This wasn't Fate/One, it was Unlimited Blade Works, and it adapted that. You're the typical Zero secondary who thinks it was the original, and whatever came after it needed to cater to that.
>>134857309
More or less what I meant. I know the VN itself carries it better, but if I hadn't watched Zero and read up on these characters and learned about people like Kirei and Sakura and so on before hand, I would have basically laughed at the complete lack of attention to detail in this anime.
Most of UBW is horribly lacking in context, that I luckily mostly had, but speaking purely for the anime? Its god-awful in how much it glosses over and doesn't explain.
>>134857245
Okay, that just helps my point. UBW wouldn't have been made better if I had watched it before Zero.
>>134857102
I don't think it was "really bad". How was it any slower than the first?
>>134857117
Reminder
>>134855908
Yeah, it's my opinion and many others thatNASU IS A HACK!!!!
>>134857446
UBW is the second story of FSN.
What you did was go into season two of a television season, with a third season confirmed, mind you, and get annoyed that you didn't understand everything.
Do you understand how ridiculous that is? This isn't Fate/stay night. It's Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works]. This wasn't a fresh start or a jumping off point.
>>134857393
No, I know about the Fate route, and the VN, and so on. I came into UBW knowing the context. That still doesn't change my mind about Zero being a better self-contained story and just a more enjoyable anime overall. >>134857455
Almost everything in that bingo is true. Deal with it.
>>134857547
television series*
>>134857446
>UBW wouldn't have been made better if I had watched it before Zero.
In the UBW scenario, the two plot points you listed, knowing Saber's identity and that Kirei is evil, are things you already learned in the previous story. While Kirei really doesn't do much in UBW, knowing Saber's identity and her character is crucial to understanding and getting the full enjoyment out of the dynamic between her, Archer, and Shirou, especially if you haven't seen the first anime.
>>134857569
1. You read some things off a wiki
2. UBW is not a self contained story. No one said it was.
Again, read this >>134857547
Let me ask you, if you just read a summary of Star Wars, and then jumped head first into Empire, and that's all, would you be satisfied? Empire isn't a beginning, it's not an end, you could make these same criticisms, but it's still considered a good movie.
>>134857450
Crappy additions to Illya's backstory that felt like a weird mix between Zero pandering and blatant padding. Random comedy skit between Shinji and maids. Rushing of Shirou's first encounter with Gilgamesh, which is understated but very important to the route. The way they dragged out the Shirou/Archer conflict. Whole epilogue felt like something that should have been an OVA, which is admittedly not that big of a deal but personally annoying because I thought UBW's original ending was perfect
>>134857569
>Almost everything in that bingo is true.
Just went through the list and none of them are. Mind listing anything specific?
>>134857682
>>Crappy additions to Illya's backstory that felt like a weird mix between Zero pandering and blatant padding
That served a purpose. The reason they connected Ilya's death to Zero is because they didn't directly have Fate material to add there, and the emotion behind Ilya's death rides on you caring about her from the Fate route, so Ufotable used what they had to try and draw a connection. It was kind of patchwork, but I understand it.
>Random comedy skit between Shinji and maids
That was to explain away how the maids died in UBW, which wasn't touched on in the VN.
>Rushing of Shirou's first encounter with Gilgamesh, which is understated but very important to the route
I don't remember what was rushed from this.
>The way they dragged out the Shirou/Archer conflict
It was about two and a half episodes. I can understand it dragging, but the main meat was in 20, with build up in 19 and some leftovers for 21.
>Whole epilogue felt like something that should have been an OVA, which is admittedly not that big of a deal but personally annoying because I thought UBW's original ending was perfect
I wouldn't prefer it to be an OVA, cause that'd just be Aniplex jewing people out of more money, especially considering it's a 400 dollar set already.
>>134857677
I really don't see how that is anything similiar to what I'm saying. I watched Zero, I did read large amounts of wiki yes, and I've been in a fuck ton of Fate threads. I knew who all these characters were and I knew what was going on, and I knew that the themes they were presenting were handled better in the source material. Saying I lack context when I clearly don't does not change my mind on Zero being a better anime.
Zero is a better anime because it had
-A grander and more mythological tone.
-More interesting characters
-Handled its themes much better
-Had better pacing
-Just plain had a more interesting story.
I honestly don't care if you think Shirou is more interesting in the VN, or if the DEEN adaptation of the Fate Route is any good. Unless there is something specific in one of those works that would completely change my opinion on the story itself being told worse, or the pacing being worse then Zero, I really do not care.
And shouting "Well you just lack context" without specifying what kind of context I'm lacking when I know who all these characters are and what the context of the story is, doesn't really prove anything.
>>134857682
Actually Illya's backstory in UBW explains various things from the VN and HA. But of course can't expect more from newfags.
>>134857805
-Not taking the war seriously
-Should be dead
-They have plot armor
-Its a high school setting
-Its pretty generic shounen
-F/Z has more mature characters
-Saber is far more moe and less interesting
-Fanbase can't take criticism very well
-Too much fanservice
-F/Z is more serious
-Shirou is insufferable
-F/Z are deeper
-Its mediocre
-Too little development.
-Stupid immature teenagers/etc.
Clarification: This is only true for the anime. The VN I imagine clears up or just plain does not have most of these issues. Though I still think Shirou sucks, even knowing all his backstory and more fleshed out motivations. He's just insufferably annoying, and I hate his ideals.
>>134857862
>-A grander and more mythological tone.
>-More interesting characters
>-Handled its themes much better
>-Had better pacing
>-Just plain had a more interesting story.
Everything you said there is just an opinion that I can't really argue other than to say I disagree, with the exception of pacing, which I will argue to the bone was much worse in Zero.
Regardless though, you argue that you know the story based off of what people on /a/ say, and some stuff on a wiki. That's still completely ridiculous,
>>134857971
Why do you hate the ideals of someone who wants to help others.
It is worst than Zero but pretty decent. Shirou wasn't a great main character but was okay enough to move the story.
>>134858031
Not at all. I'm only arguing that I am not lacking some magical context that would totally change my opinion of UBW.
I'm not saying I know the whole story of Fate, that would be ridiculous. I'm saying that unless you can tell me even a hint of what specific piece of information from the source material would make me think UBW is just "okay", I'm going to go on thinking it was just "okay".
If I have never watched any of the anime or read/played any of the VN/games, what's the best way to get introduced to the FATE universe?
I've exhausted my backlog of anime and honestly I can't find any more excuses not to get into this thing. I put off watching anything EVA until 2014 and it was alright, so I figure it's time to dive into FATE.
Fate/Zero was so deep and mature, unlike Fate/stay night and loli pedo shit Prisma. You'd never see 2011 Ufotable releasing promo material of a sexualized 6 year old. No sure.
>>134857852
I'm aware of the intention behind each anime-original addition but still find them vehemently bad, much like everything Miura did with KnK6.
In the VN Shirou's confrontation with Gilgamesh following Illya's death was more clear in establishing their conflict/parallel. As an example he says he could never "close the distance", obviously foreshadowing the outcome of their fight in the route's climax.
>>134857881
But I read every Fate VN.
>>134857971
> The VN I imagine clears up or just plain does not have most of these issues.
Correct.
>>134858069
I think the material itself posts my biggest arguments for me.
1. Shirou's ideal is inhuman, the morality of an automaton, not a human being. You cannot dedicate yourself entirely to helping others, you have to look out for yourself somewhere in the process.
2. His ideal of a world where no one is hurt would be a boring literal hell on earth completely devoid of meaning, arguments Rider and Gilgamesh presented decently well.
In short, it comes down to the difference between pure altruism, and the concept of reciprocity that is the basis for the Golden Rule. The former is Shirou's morality, and is in my mind short-sighted and suicidal, the latter is the basis for almost all human moral codes.
>>134858213
>But I read every Fate VN.
Then how did you miss the fact that the backstory gave bigger insight on what Illya said in HA?
>>134858140
>If I have never watched any of the anime or read/played any of the VN/games, what's the best way to get introduced to the FATE universe?
The general recommendation is to start with the FSN visual novel as it is the only way to get the full story of FSN at the moment, and the best way to experience the Fate route and arguably the UBW route. When you finish the FSN VN, you can then go to any other entry in the Fate franchise of your choosing, whether that be Fate/Zero(It's recommended to watch the anime as opposed to reading the LN for F/Z since the LN isn't as good), Fate Hollow Ataraxia, Fate/Extra(This is a PSP game) or Prisma Ilya.
>>134858115
You have to understand what Unlimited Blade Works is in context. It is the second route of Fate/stay night, that inherently works off your assumption of knowing information from the first.
Characters like Rider get killed off early in UBW, but that's okay, because she had decent exposure in Fate, and more to come in HF. The same with characters like Kirei. Kirei's death in UBW great because in Fate, he was the final bad guy, so it's a twist, and shocks the viewer when you see him die expectantly.
You've already seen him in a climactic light, so it's okay to see him in a story where he isn't center stage. Even then, he gets more screen time in the third story to come.
It's the same with Shirou, who you grow to see over the VN. In Fate, you're introduced to his character, and see his dreams and wants. In UBW, he's confronted with the issues in his ideals, and put to the test. In HF, he takes an alternate path, and chooses to move away from them.
The entire narrative builds onto each other, and Zero is built on references to the original. Like, half the things people praise about Zero are already in the original story.
>>134858115
The point everyone's been trying to tell you is F/SN is meant to be read as a whole, not individual routes. Each route is weaker than Fate/Zero (debatable), but as a whole it is much better.
The sequel routes require knowledge you learn from the previous ones, so if you haven't read Fate then UBW seems lacking and so forth for HF because things aren't explained again that you learn in the previous one.
F/SN is to be judged as a whole of the three routes together as there is progression in information and character development for Shirou across them.
>>134858221
>1. Shirou's ideal is inhuman, the morality of an automaton, not a human being
Yes, and Shirou accepts that. He knows that following his ideal isn't human, but he's okay with that. He doesn't want to be human, he wants to be a hero, and he's okay with the sacrifices that that may lead to. This is already readily in the anime, and is a climactic character defining moment.
>2. His ideal of a world where no one is hurt would be a boring literal hell on earth completely devoid of meaning, arguments Rider and Gilgamesh presented decently well.
Shirou knows that his ideal is impossible, but he wants to seek a world where everyone is happy. He knows that it likely can't be done, but he wants to put more good out there than bad. It's an ideal he's trying to obtain. The peak of something.
>>134858115
Well the UBW anime adaptation is just plain bad in terms of conveying any theme or meaning the source material held. See >>134856396 for how badly they degraded Shirou's character
If you want to know why Fate/stay night is so acclaimed there is literally no way but to read the VN.
>>134858221
>1. Shirou's ideal is inhuman, the morality of an automaton, not a human being.
That's actually the point, and UBW is about Shirou embracing a healthier "version" of this machine-like existence. If you're asking why he's like this, it's based in how he lost his existence/identity in the Grail fire, and his Origin of "Sword", which compels him to live for others.
>>134858366
I can see that, but that doesn't really address my biggest dislikes of the anime, which was pacing, the characters themselves being less interesting, and the overall tone.
I think even if I went and read the entire VN right now, came back and watched both animes again, I'd probably still think I like Zero better just because of its grander more somber tone, and I just plain like the characters better.
Tohsaka is fun, Iskandar is a riot, Kiritsugu is interesting and a good foil to Saber, Lancer is fine for what he is, and Gilgamesh is just regal as shit.
In UBW, Shirou as I've said before I just find insufferable. Rin has no personality besides pride and being tsundere, Lancer is fun but unexplored, and while Gilgamesh's return [and interactions with Shinji] buffed it up in my mind a little, it wasn't enough for me to get over the overall tone shift and my dislike of the characters vs in Zero, where almost everyone I enjoyed.
>>134855908
Mediocre show that is popular for no discernible reason.
>>134858523
Shirou, in the anime, actively talks about how he knows he can't create a world where no one is hurt, but he will still strive to reach it, because what he's trying to reach is inherently good.
>>134858422
I'm sure that would make a solid argument, if I was comparing Fate Stay/Night vs Zero, but I'm purely comparing the anime UBW.
Stay/Night as a whole might potentially be a better story [though since my views are based on characters and tone, I doubt it], but just UBW? Not so much.
>>134858523
Which is an interesting character arc, and one I'd enjoy if I didn't find Shirou's personality so obnoxious. I didn't say I didn't like the story behind his ideals, I just hate the ideals themselves.
>>134858525
Already knew all of that. Honestly, Shirou is really fun as a psychological study, but as a character I just find him to suck all the life out of a room.
Compared to a more 'human' character like Kiritsugu [yeah sad day when Kiritsugu is more human then someone], Kariya, or again, Rider, he's just not as fun to watch.
>>134858546
You can like it more if you want, but the thing is, you have to remember that it's built off of the core material.
Like, there are little things that people who go into Zero first just won't get. Like, you know Gilgamesh vs Rider in Zero? How Gil used Ea to ruin Rider's Reality Marble?
That entire scene is built to answer the question of what would have happened if Shirou hadn't cut Gil's arm off in UBW. He would have easily destroyed the RM.
Lancer's character is to just draw parallels with FSN Lancer, Kirei's character is built from FSN, Kerry is just basically there to fully flesh out a bad end Shirou could get in the VN.
Zero is just entirely layered around you knowing shit from FSN.
>>134858673
> though since my views are based on characters and tone
If it's the dark tone, wait for HF.
>>134858673
>yeah sad day when Kiritsugu is more human then someone
Haha what? That's all you buddy, I find Shirou more human than that manchild.
>>134858732
Already am. Hoping they include the scene where Gil gets munched.
>>134858752
Well obviously they will since it's part of Sakura's character.
Art style was shit
>>134858546
If you want a "grand, somber" tone, HF has those things in spades. Even though it's my least favorite route I can't deny that it really nails the apocalyptic feel (though how much of that is intact with the anime adaptation obviously depends on the staff, and UBW was fucking awful in atmosphere department).
>>134858736
Shirou doesn't exist in reality and is so far delusional it only works in anime. Give me Kiritsugu's complexity over the simply asisine hero complex that is Shirou any day of the week.
>>134858736
Its the scenes with the wife and daughter that get me bad. There's a lot of humanity shown in just that scene with them walking through the snow.
Shirou gets some humanizing moments too, but none that hit me as hard as those. Maybe its the contrast, Shirou for all his machine-like nature at least acts somewhat human. But Kiritsugu is basically a living weapon and a mercenary, and to see someone whose obviously lived hell not just in one big event, but throughout his life?
Its like watching a military vet with family. There's just something inherently bittersweet about it.
>>134858824
So you liked the character more? That's different from one being more human than the other. Shirou is the typical case of a guy with survivor's guilt.
>>134858812
Damn dude, ever heard of survivor's guilt it's a real thing.
>>134858812
>Shirou doesn't exist in reality
People have survivor's guilt all the time.
Kerry's goal was to hedge his bets on a omniscient wish granting device that would go past any monkey paw bullshit, and create world peace.
Like, his entire character is built around being cool and collected up front, but simple and idealistic on the inside. It's a contrast to Shirou, who, when he first hears about the grail, thinks it's fucking bullshit, and he just wants to protect people from being hurt from the fights around him. His character is naive and idealistic up front, but inside, he's far more grounded.
>>134858673
> Compared to a more 'human' character like Kiritsugu
Yeah...then wait for HF Shirou. He is the most human version, and why many people extremely like Shirou in that route but dislike Fate, and are mild towards UBW Shirou.
Then again, the adaptations will likely be complete shit at characterization just like any other we've had so the only thing looking forward to the movies are the fights.
If you want to know the characters, read the VN.
>>134858920
Not him, but wasn't it stated somewhere in the VN that Shirou wasn't acting out of survivior's guilt as a kind of pseudo-plot twist?
>>134858930
>and why many people extremely like Shirou in that route but dislike Fate, and are mild towards UBW Shirou
I see plenty of people who are the opposite. They prefer the Shirou from the first two routes and dislike how he was in HF.
>>134858954
Survivor's Guilt is definitely ingrained into Shirou's character.
>>134858965
I think that's the minority desu. But that's the thing with the VN, there's characters for everybody. There's no arguing though that Shirou is the most human with his sacrifice of the ideals to save the one he loves in HF.
>>134858930
>He is the most human version
Not really it's the same guy. Agreeing with him =/= More human, not like I agree with HF Shirou but that's what most people point out. In HF he is more of a common protagonist giving his all for his waifu.
>>134858920
Shirou, at least in the anime, acts like a high functioning autist most of the time, and basically stares off into space when he's not in the middle of something relevant to his ideals.
He's a machine and acts like it. He's a robot whose prime directive is justice, and the closest thing to humanity he shows is his scenes with Rin and whenever he's cooking, which he seems to legitimately enjoy.
Kiritsugu however has a wife, he has a kid, he clearly loves them very much, and he has a lot of scenes that just hit me harder, like when he blew up that plane. I sympathized with him, because he really felt like someone who wanted the greatest good, but still tried to retain some humanity.
In contrast to Shirou, who felt like someone with little humanity to begin with, striving for his unobtainable ideal, and picking up a little bit of humanity along the way.
Its the difference between a shell-shocked veteran and Pinocchio.
>>134858954
Not really.
>>134859008
>like when he blew up that plane. I sympathized with him, because he really felt like someone who wanted the greatest good, but still tried to retain some humanity
Why didn't Kerry just let Natalia jump out of the plane then blow it up
>>134859006
Maybe more-relatable would be the right choice of words?
>>134858921
>he's far more grounded.
Top kek....oh you were serious? Let me laugh even further anon top fucking kek.
>>134859005
Man I've seen plenty of folks argue that HF Shirou is the worst.
"Human", maybe, but HF is built around being a divisive narrative in the first place, so you're gonna have folks who don't agree with him abandoning his ideals.
>>134859059
No fucking idea. Kerry's kind of an idiot.
>>134859073
I think he meant more grounded then he lets on, not more grounded then Kerry.
>>134859008
Shirou pushes himself to act like a robot because of his survivor's guilt. Rin brought his human side, it's different more light hearted way of telling that he is also human. I guess you need more drama to understand those things.
>>134859106
I bet Natalia wishes she were grounded
>>134859073
Grounded in the sense that he he says that he wants to save everyone, but inside he knows that's impossible.
Kerry really did hope that the grail would be his answer, and he placed everything on that.
>>134859060
Yes.
>>134859124
>Sides fed to the Holy Grail.
I just noticed there are only 26 people in this thread.
>>134859239
I juts joined, but I can imagine. This threads have been spammed to death and are mostly shitposting. People get tired of it but in this situations you only need two anons bantering to keep it alive.
>>134859152
Okay so one is a idealistic autist who is heading towards his own destruction and knowing the end result.
The other is an immature manchild looking for his own salvation.
Give me option B for 100 Alex.
>>134859344
Option B willingly destroyed all the connections in his life and killed countless people in the search for that that salvation, with the idea that what he was doing would lead him to happiness.
Shirou outright knows he's not gonna be happy, he sees he's gonna be doing some fucked up shit, but he's okay with that, because he knows what he's doing is right.
>>134859344
But he isn't heading toward his own destruction.
>107 posts
>26 posters
Holy shit Fate is dead.
>>134859451
There's a Rin thread up right now with over a hundred posters.
>>134859451
Or it's late in most time zones and people are asleep.
>>134855908
At least it didn't have so many goddamn breakfast and dinner scenes to go through.
>>134859549
>not liking cooking scenes
Taiga a cute.
I wish there had been more of her.
>>134859444
They are both piece of shit, you are just glossing over how much a piece of shit Shirou is.
He knows how bad Archer becomes and how badly he fucks up at the end but is heading towards that.
Least Kiritsugu had a fucked up enough childhood to being a sociopath.
>>134859651
Archer didn't fuck up though, that's the point. He witnessed everything he did, evaluated it, and said it was still worth it.
Archer helped people. It might not have been a Saturday morning cartoon where no one died and they all laughed at the end, but he did help, and Shirou still wants to help too.
That's why Archer lost. He thought if he could show Shirou what he'd end up doing, he'd turn tail and run, but Shirou weighed his potential sins, and he'd still move forward, and Archer couldn't argue against that, cause he lived through it too.
>>134859701
And Shirou had a plenty of fucked childhood. He was a six year old who ended up being one of the only survivors of a disaster that killed tons of people. He was scarred at a much younger age than Kerry, who was going through puberty even.
>>134859651
>He knows how bad Archer becomes and how badly he fucks up at the end but is heading towards that.
Again, untrue. He isn't going to become a Counter Guardian, which is where things went downhill for Archer. During his life he was happy - UBW's final line is literally Archer saying "I was not wrong".
>Least Kiritsugu had a fucked up enough childhood to being a sociopath.
Kiritsugu's childhood doesn't really begin to compare to how horrific the Grail fire was, but the anime obviously skimped out on depicting a lot of its brutality because it's a TV series.
>>134859701
Anon a murderer is still a murderer no matter if he believes he is on the path of righteousness.
In fact Kiritsugo wanted a result that would save the most people and so did Archer....they just had different means of getting to that answer.
>>134859785
Yes, that's true. No one is saying one is more moral than the other. Hell, Kerry did plenty of good in his life as well.
The only thing I'm saying is that Shirou knew he was heading towards a fucked up future, and he was cool with it, because he knew it wasn't wrong.
>>134859832
How is that grounded then? It is heading towards your own ruin.
It isn't grounded in anything but rather foolish idealism of a child.
I like it in many ways more than the VN particularly the fight between Shirou and Archer.
Rhinoses are pretty bad though.
The amount of bait the threads generated was amazing.
>>134859884
Kerry genuinely believed he could use the grail to bring about world peace. He hedged all his bets on it, and spent literal years planning this all out, including getting married and having a kid as part of the deal, with its initial point of just just furthering his goal.
Shirou wants peace too, but he knows he's likely not gonna get it, but he'll still do his best, so he spends his life in warn torn areas doing as much as he can taking out bad guys and helping the local populace.
>>134859940
war torn*
>>134859451
>Bait thread
What do you expect? Any other fate thread that isn't blatant shitposting has over 100. You expect people to autistically discuss this over and over?
>>134859940
Kerry's is still better and makes sense.
Shirou should change his idealism of "I will help as many people instead of "I will save everyone" shit. Saving people by killing terrorists will only breed more anger and more fighting. You don't solve violence with more violence, this is basic hero discussion 101.
Least Kerry was looking at the bigger picture and had an end goal.
>>134860089
That is basically what Shirou does by the end. He wants to help as many people as possible, but he knows when push comes to shove, he'll have to make harder decisions.
For instance, he'll save Shinji, cause despite him being an asshole, he ultimately probably didn't deserve to outright get murdered, while he'll kill Gil, because he had a plan to try and destroy the world, and that's a dick movie.
And Shirou's first action isn't to try and just murder everyone in the room, hell that's arguably more Kerry's MO if the situation calls it, it's just sometimes you have to use force, and Shirou accepts that.
And Shirou does do good. We know he saves the world outright at least once (beyond the grail war).
>>134860206
I disagree with saving Shinji. He raped Rider and was going to make Rin a sex slave then kill her.
A person like that doesn't deserve to breath and normally most people would have cut his nuts off, shoved them in his mouth and then decapitated him.
You can't reason with "evil people" as he called them and so he resorted to violence. That was his driving force for using violence because he was doing the right thing to these irrational people.
Who said Shirou doesn't do good? All I am saying is that they are both piece of shit.
>>134860089
Not the other guy, but Kerry mainly spent his time killing bad guys too.
But that's most fictional heroes. If they wanted to help the world they'd be spending their off time volunteering but thats' just not good writing.
>>134860288
I use "bad guys" loosely, it's not his definition, it's just we know he fights terrorist types in the middle east.
And again, while Shinji is an asshole, he's not so far gone that he deserve to just outright get killed when it can be helped.
>>134860288
Shinji was salvagable and Shirou knows this.
>>134860340
Shirou does volunteer.
>>134860089
>>134860288
How does somebody completely understand Shirou's character yet simultaneously completely fail to understand the point of his character like this? It's like listing an in-depth explanation of all the reasons Batman refuses to kill the Joker, and then ending with "but he should still totally kill the Joker"
>>134855908
Good adaptation, could have used better pacing. The original scenes didn't add too much and some important details were left out. The artstyle leaves a lot to be desired too. I know they wanted to be loyal to Takuechi's style but his art really is not very good. Shirou needed better characterization though I think they got a lot done with visuals which helped with how little was actually said/narrated.
Also Zero shitposters should leave.
>>134860340
I never said Kerry was a saint. You can bet your left nut I acknowledge what a scumbag he is but so is Shirou. The original arguement was over an anon using the phrase to describe Shirou's ideals as "grounded".
>>134860371
Drug dealers as well don't forget those baddies.
Apparently raping someone and then potentially raping and murdering another isn't enough for death. If Lancer wasn't in the vicinity Rin would have been used and thrown away like a used napkin. He deserved death anon and you know it.
>>134860485
>Apparently raping someone and then potentially raping and murdering another isn't enough for death
>He deserved death anon and you know it.
Not in basically every single legal system in the entire world anon. I don't want to throw around the edgy word here, but holy shit, dial it back a little will ya?
>>134860451
Oh I get his character and I understand the change he does to his ideals it is just that for the majority of the show he was acting like an autistic hero puppet who spouting off utter drivel.
Both characters undergo massive change to their character but that isn't what we are arguing about.
>>134860485
I think its because Shirou's Ideals are so unrrealistic that it makes them more inspiring. It's an "ideal" in every sense of the word.
Even he's aware its not possible, but he strives for it because he knows the world would be a better place with him attempting to reach it (regardless if he ever truly gets it or not).
It's incredibly romantic thinking in contrast to Kiritsugu's pragmatic.
>>134857569
>Zero being a better self-contained story
Of course it's a better self-contained story. Zero has no other parts to it, it IS the story. Its entire story. UBW on the other hand, is one third of a story. If the route was meant to stand on its own without the others, they wouldn't have coded it so you had to play all the routes in a specific order.
>>134860549
Shinji is a violent sister beating rapist who could have added "murderer" to the list and yet you are telling me to dial it back? In any other show this guy would be killed off and no one would make a fuss about it but apparently I was wrong.
>>134860630
Good post until you said
> world would be a better place with him attempting to reach it
I vehemently disagree anon. He killed the evil people at the time but who is to say they don't bring reinforcements and attack the villagers with even more force and brutality?
Archer is running around saving as many people as possible, going from one place to another and leaving the people he "rescued" to deal with the consequences of his actions. Oh sure when you look at face value he is doing the right thing but objectively he is making the world a worse place.
Pragmatism>Romanticism any day of the week
>there will never be a slice of life magical university anime set immediately following UBW
Why even live?
>>134860778
Yeah, but who DIDN'T rape Sakura?
I just started fate(ubw) series and im 9 episodes in
Shirou is too generic and boring of a mc but i think i can finish it.
Should i watch deen's adaptation too?
What is the correct order of watching?
I dont want to play the vn
>>134855908
The new emiya remix is great.
>>134860856
>I dont want to play the vn
Then you aren't going to get much out of the series.
>>134860856
> Shirou is too generic and boring of a mc but i think i can finish it.
Read the VN.
> Should i watch deen's adaptation too?
No, read the VN for Fate route.
> What is the correct order of watching?
There isn't a correct way of watching, read the VN.
> I dont want to play the vn
You'll never get good adaptations. Read the VN
>>134860897
>>134860948
SHUT THE FUCK UP
>>134860856
Ffs read the VN, then DEEN then UBW. Reason why I say to read the VN is because everything is completely fleshed out, then you can enjoy the angle they took for DEEN and then enjoy the much polished version with UBW.
>>134860948
>>134860897
Ok, i might play the vn, but one of the min things that brougt me to fate was rin vs luvia, but now i saw that theres no luvia i ubw
Can i just skip to prisma illya instead?
>>134861118
>main
>brought
>in ubw
>>134861118
Prisma is completely unrelated to F/SN, but it has HF Spoilers in it soo do whatever you want anon.
Luvia is in the final episode of UBW since it extended the true ending of the VN, but mainly in Prisma.
>>134855908
Can someone remind me if F/SN or F/Z is the good one?
>>134861188
Carnival Phantasm > F/SN VN > F/Z LN > F/Z Anime > UBW Anime > Yurilolis >>>>> DEEN
>>134861188
Fate Zero collectively is better but the second half of UBW is better than the second half of Zero.
So watch both shows with Zero being first.
>>134861118
No. Now you have to read Fate/Hollow right after the original VN also.
>>134861188
FSN > FZ
>>134855908
Weak, average at its best. Funny how it had an unlimited budget but even so it wasn't top 5 that season.
>>134861188
We been over this FZ>FSN UBW.
>>134861278
>an unlimited budget
Actually believing this. You must think OPM has a huge budget too.
>>134861302
We been over this FSN UBW>FZ.
>>134860089
Oh for fucks sake, that is what Shirou changes his ideal to.
>>134861388
Oh were going back to the Kiritsugo vs Shirou shit? I thought I buried that half an hour ago.
>>134861418
Different anon, but might as well.
>>134861510
But how do you feel about it in the VN?
>>134861547
Significantly better than the anime, why?
>>134861572
Was the argument regarding Kerry and Shirou based on the anime adaptions of their characters?
>>134859451
OP's bait is an eyesore
UBW is old and busted
Most Fatefags are focused on the superior product
>>134861596
Considering the OP was about the 2014 anime, I would say the anime.
>>134861631
2wei Herz was pretty disappointing to be honest.
>>134861631
OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait. OP's bait!
>>134861650
Then how do you find them comparing Fate/Zero's LN and the VN?
>>134861724
Well I was arguing from the point of view of the anime, everything else was irrelevant because this is an anime related thread.
>>134861118
This is bait.
>>134861738
Forgive me then, I apologize.
>>134855908
AOTY.
>>134861653
At least things are happening again in the manga
>Miyuverse VN never
>>134861785
AOTYAY
It was a really good adaptation in contrast with what DEEN did.
The characters designs could have been better of course, but overall it was a pretty solid job, one of the best this year
>>134861783
No need to apologize, this shitty thread needed a divergence anyway.
>>134861833
>pandering to fans the anime
>>134861862
>Fate series
>pandering
You don't say?
Friendly reminder that Shinji did nothing wrong.
>>134862517
He did wrong things, but people who think he should have gotten murdered indiscriminately because he did are probably a little more off than even him.
>>134862577
Those people don't want Sakura to be happy. Did they not see how happy she was to have her onii-chan back?
>>134860778
What should Shirou do? Plant his ass down and help set up a form of proper government for these war invested countries? That's not what he's good at.
Likewise, should he just ignore things? The idea that taking out people terrorizing the locals will just lead to more harm is a defeatist attitude.
I mean what pragmatism are you talking about? Shirou is good at making swords, and making people bleed with them. He's not a politician, all he can do is what he's good at, and we know he helps. He's saved the world at least once.
I mean if you can pull that off, you might be on to something.
>>134862935
infested*
>>134862517
>>134862577
I've always thought that Shinji was just a guy who had a fucked up upbringing messing his mind up.
Zouken or whoever pretty much condemning him to being useless early on in his life, which gave him unwarranted arrogance (as a defense mechanism/subconscious inferiority complex) and a desire to prove himself.
I've mostly read him as a tragic character similar to Kariya, though he invokes a sort of sympathy as his life burns out, whereas Shinji invokes both anger and pity.
>>134855908
Okay show, but made the mistake of airing beside Amagi Brilliant Park. Sento best girl.
Hey guys, how do I get into hollow ataraxia? Is there an english patch for it like with realta nua?
>>134863508
Yes. No voices though.
http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/5046-Fate-Hollow-Ataraxia-Translation-Patches
Why are fatefags the worst fanbase on /a/? Not even EVAfags or KyoAnifags are this insufferable.
>>134863540
Aight, thanks anon
>>134863568
Because of you, anon. We don't like you, and behind your back, we're actually really super chill, but when you come along, we try and piss you off as much as possible.
>>134863314
Yet Saber had to deal with her and Kanye.
So /a/, tell me,what was your fire?
>>134863568
Preach anon. Nasu is a hack.
>>134863646
But is he really as bad as Kojima, Toriyama, or George Lucas?
>>134859005
There are plenty of people who don't like Shirou period, even on international polls, Shirou loses to all three heroines by a pretty sizable margin.
He is a good character in all routes. But the other guy is right about divisiveness, but that counts for all routes.
For instance, I see as much fanart now for all routes and couples these days in a more equal fashion, it's much better than the climate even 6 years ago.
The bitterness of HF isn't as bad in the fandom as some people make it. At the end of the day, FSN is liked as a whole if we looked at it from a majority standpoint.
>>134855908
Shit adaptation of a shitty vn, next.
>>134865453
Why did you do that.
>>134862626
She feels responsible for him despite being a living science experiment for her grandfather. It's both a big character strength and and flaw, she has extremely high empathy.
That the abuse victim who could use therapy and intervention herself is the one to rehabilitate him and basically acts like his mother in Hollow because of his brattiness is pretty pathetic on his part. At the very least he got a job in Hollow.
Holy fuck why aren't you giving OP what he wants? He tried too hard already
>>134856161
the vn is pretty much that but with cooking too
Regardless of anything, Rin is still best girl.
