Are there here people who actually like deep anime? Not ironically posting something and labeling it "DEEP" or "2deep4u" because they're contrarians or insecure about works they value in front of others. Yes, Evangelion, Utena or Lain are deep and are works of art. I'm wondering if some people are confident in their tastes here and value those works. The way they use multi-layered thematic exposition, the fact that they deal with strong topics but more importantly how they use the medium to touch upon them.
I don't think necessarily that these works require some kind of superior intelligence or whatever. What they do require is concentration, the ability to interpet visual exposition and sometimes the determination to rewatch a work, because sometimes elements might be presented in achronological order. People who call them pretentious or non-sense aren't stupid but they're just lazy.
>Evangelion
>deep
>>134434354
People never admit their tastes here because it's pointless. It doesn't matter what you like, there's always gonna be one dipshit who's gonna say that it sucks for the sake of annoying you, without reasoning his opinion and just sending any hope of mature discussion down the shitter.
Here you go, as I was typing one already arrived. >>134434411
>>134434354
>Are there here people who actually like deep anime?
Sure do.
K-On!! became deep when Yui waxed her philosophy "Fun things are fun" blew my mind away. I have since adapted that mentality into my everyday life.
>>134434470
There ya go, OP. Enjoy it by yourself and be on the lookout for the occasional thread that isn't plagued by people who would be better off at the bottom of the ocean.
>>134434354
Yes I like "deep" anime. Or as I call it "anything with substance". Anime like Angel's Egg is a bit different in that I don't feel there is a strong message. It's simply an artistic piece, like a beautiful painting or something.
So yes OP, there are people who like "deep" anime. What about it?
>>134434470
>never admitting you like something unless literally everyone else does too
>>134434411
Sure it is, and you being an edgy "le kek" contrarian doesn't change it. It took a set of themes, social relations and escapism and explored it presenting it through different methods of exposition: the dialogue, the story and action of the characters, the imagery, the setting and the visualized streams of consciousness. Often times it presented something through one method and then through another it showed how it wasn't the actual truth revealing what it is. If you have to go on the surface and have to go through multiple layers that does imply it is you have to go deeper right? The metaphorical use of the term isn't the same as the literal more physical one by chance.
>>134434470
So what, that's no reason to loose confidence and start pretending that you weren't serious or whatever.
>>134434625
Why do you write "deep" not deep. Do you also say your favorite comedies are "funny" or horror movies are "scary"?
>>134434648
That's not at all what he said.
>>134434648
That's not the point of my post.
I have no problems in admitting I like Evangelion, especially on an anonymous imageboard, but there's no room for discussion for it since every single time a deep anime is mentioned it gets immediately flooded by sarcastic posters that puke out buzzwords like "pretentious" and just drown the thread in shit.
People here seem unable to ignore threads about shows they don't like, they would rather be annoying douches that ruin everyone else's fun.
>>134434741
The last two episodes are literally spoonfeeding the show's message to you.
>>134434855
>pretentious is a buzzword and not a legitimate complaint
>People here seem unable to ignore threads about shows they don't like, they would rather be annoying douches that ruin everyone else's fun.
WELCOME TO 4CHAN FUCKFACE
>his real life is too shallow and worry free he has to watch "deep" shows to keep on living.
>>134434354
Persona 4 was being rather deep with Shadow Mitsuo.
>>134434855
That's because people don't go to 4chan for in-depth analysis and discussion. If you seriously expect that from the anons here then you're just a newfag.
>>134434354
Deep/profound is so last century. Now, the best art is about capturing the everyday. Even the simple things in normal life can carry different meanings to different people. That is is why works like Humans of New York and A takeaway show are so amazing. We don't need art to be profound when technology and science are making profound progress every day. Rather, it makes us want to go back to the human and intimate things.
>>134434913
Sup redditor.
>>134434944
Go fuck yourself. The fact that you say that seriously means you are new. Only relatively recently has discussion gone down the shitter. There are still threads, mostly spin offs, that maintain solid discussion without mouth breathers joining in.
>>134434354
>Evangelion
Pffffffffttt ahahahaahhahahahahah
>>134434991
Pretentious pseudo intellectual: the post
>>134434913
pretentious has become a buzzword, just like "edgy" and a fuckton of other retarded shit that's spammed so often here.
>>134434944
4chan isn't /b/.
OP asked why he can't find people that like deep shows here, and you're the living demonstration of the reason.
>>134434926
>hurr, complex things are for no-life losers durr
>>134434800
Because you can find depth in anything. Like >>134434547 did. It seems weird to me to classify anime as a "deep anime" as if an anime having depth was some genre.
So I can only assume OP meant exceptionally artistic/avant garde anime.
>>134434890
If you avoid understanding how the message ties to the characters, and their psyche in general, the meaning behind the imagery, actions of the characters, the visualizations and even things like shot composition then you might say that.
But that's kind of like saying that any extensive work on a topic that has a summary at the end is shallow.
Even when the message is told it still doesn't act as some universal key to understanding the show. It might help but it's more like someone giving you hints on how to read a code, you still have to do the whole process of decoding every single letter yourself.
>>134434470
This is pretty accurate and explains a lot about the dynamics of the board.
Shows that are mediocre yet offer some sort of justification for watching aside from "because it's good and I like it" get loads of attention and posts, because it allows people to justify their interest in a show without opening themselves to nonstop criticism over their taste.
>>134434944
Not a chance. If all you've ever experienced of /a/ is that then I feel sorry for you. There are plenty of legitimately great threads, but they're usually some combination of slow/happen during slow times/are about old or unpopular things. If all you ever do is hang out in flavor of the month shitposting threads, it makes some sense that your conception of what is possible on /a/ is warped.
>>134434944
4chan is the smartest animu board on the web, we just like shitposting.
With evangelion it's hype backlash.
>>134434991
I don't see why you can't have both. Science and technology makes profound progess as well but makes small steps and makes simple things easier the same. Technology allows us to explore the cosmos and the structure of matter but also gives us aps that let us know how many calories we took in that day and post pictures of anime girls on image boards.
>>134435208
Okay, what are some examples of the imagery and visuals that show Evangelion is deep?
>>134435185
Because depth isn't really about the message itself, it's about how it's presented. That's why animation is art and not a lecture.
>>134434354
>>134434470
I've actually admitted to liking "deep" anime and given the right wording, I've never had anyone attack me.
>>134434354
Angel's Egg is less deep than the average anime. It has so little substance
>>134434470
>one guy is going to greentext me so I won't post my opinions at all
this is a flimsy copout
why are you even here if you won't post something in case people might mock you
>>134434354
the problem is more that pretentiousness is not generally accepted on 4chan (and /a/), and if you start going on about a show using words like "deep" you're going to receive a bunch of fedora pictures
you're more than welcome to enjoy Lain, make threads about it and talk about it, just don't go around with your nose up because you're watching mature anime for mature people like yourself
they require actually wanting to understand it, some people just don't give two shits about what they're watching, they don't want to take it seriously
personally I freaking love deep shit, even if its just being pretentious
>>134434354
I abhorr anything that requires me to use even a single brain cell unwillingly to decipher whatever the fuck I am watching. As a wagekek, when I go home, I expect that the otaku business panders to my need to completely turn off my brain and drool in my daki while i caress the empty void inside my soul.
>>134435442
Take any of the scenes where the angels probe the minds of the characters. Or all the shots with the more important conversations between Misato and Shinji. They may speak warmly to each other on the surface but are often in the shadows and Misato will speak to Shinji from outside the room. On the surface the characters seem to be talking normally but visually we see there is a barrier between them. Or the scene in which Shinji lands on Rei when he gets in to her room and touches her breast. She doesn't react (which is also used to play with our expectations concerning the the trope). On the other hand when Shinji does something seemingly casual like touching a pair of glasses she only slaps him then. This shows a lot about not only how she values Gendo but how she sees no value in herself.
The whole way the characters present themselves to others and then how it is revealed how who they trully are. How Asuka stands proud, wears the pilot things on her head because she identifies herself with it strongly and then will lie naked in a bathtub weeping.
I think the easiest way to realize these things is just to rewatch. You realize how half the stuff in the show is there for a really specific purpose. The first time you're kind of too confused, excited, in awe or disgusted to really pinpoint these things. Or you don't really have the knowledge by that time to interpret some of the elements. I mean the first episode has things you can only understand on a rewatch. Hell, pretty much the first minutes do.
>>134435956
>I think the easiest way to realize these things is just to rewatch. You realize how half the stuff in the show is there for a really specific purpose. The first time you're kind of too confused, excited, in awe or disgusted to really pinpoint these things. Or you don't really have the knowledge by that time to interpret some of the elements. I mean the first episode has things you can only understand on a rewatch. Hell, pretty much the first minutes do.
I was thinking about re-watching the series... thanks for the advice, I'm surely going to do it.
>Evangelion
>deep
I watch "deep" shit for the aesthetics.
I don't care about any meaning or substance or whatever as long as I find it beautiful on a surface level.
>>134434944
That sounds like you're really new here!
>>134436131
The Eva blurays are amazing for this. I always loved the show, but it looks so fucking amazing now.
>>134434354
Yes, I do.
>>134435442
Shinji's music player.
>>134436999
>listening to Ys soundtrack is deep
>>134436999
I'll preface this by saying I'm too stupid to understand a lot of Evangelion in the first place.
What was "the point" of the music player? It seemed like it was just some pretty generic music. Was there a deeper meaning to it
>>134434944
>I only come to 4chan to act retarded and shitpost so that means that no one else can have any sort meaningful conversation or insightful discussion
>>134438115
He was just listening to some anime ost crap. The part of it being broken, always looping on 25,26 which mirrors the final episodes, and then in the rebuilds u suddenly get 27,28 etc, it's some pretty basic symbolism. nothing 2deep.
>>134438115
He listens to it whenever he doesn't want to pay attention to anyone. It's just a coping mechanism he uses to ignore everything around him.
>>134436131
Style is it's own form of substance in visual media.
>>134434354
You don't need immersive art or aesthetics to have deepness in anime.
Hokuto no Ken is seriously deep, Blame! is deep in its own way. Even Nichijou is deep when you follow the small hints in it
>>134438369
>deepness
kek
>>134434470
>people never admit their tastes because there will always be one dipshit who disagrees
Fuck off. People admit their tastes here literally every thread, and other people disagree with them every thread. Get off of the internet if a snide comment really destroys your ability to have a discussion.
>>134438115
The deep shit in eva is all in character actions, the meaning of AT field, and the interlocking web of characters just using each other at each other's expense.
I do agree that calling Evangelion particularly deep is a little bit of a stretch (let's potentially pin that one to social conditioning), however, yes I do enjoy deep works.
More to the point, I don't actually watch a lot of anime in general. My attention is usually spent towards manga, because the expectation towards anime fans is almost unequivocally lazy. Mainstream manga suffers just the same, but there's plenty more to explore, particularly of the ebbs and flows avant garde manga artists over the last five decades. Some of it is complete tripe, or nonsensical but every now and again you get something at the edge of your comprehension and it's wholly satisfying. Nishioka Kyoudai would be a good example for me.
At the same time, I can't put my head towards 'deep' things all the time. As you say, it requires concentration, and a significant proportion of the time that's not what I read manga or watch anime for. So, I read a lot of slice of life otherwise. Although, that's not to dismiss some of them as not deep, but they're more subconscious and subliminal in their messages.
>>134438115
It's a way for him to shut himself up, to not have to listen to the others. It fits with the theme of barriers between people (Ultimate Terror Field)
The fact that he always plays the same two tracks in repeat is probably a way to show that he's stuck and doesn't know what he wants to do/become.
Anything that makes me have a subconscious emotions that I can't describe off the tip of my head or whatever way you want to phrase it is deep.
>>134434354
is this the persona 4 anime
I like anime film more than anime TV because more effort goes into it
>>134439321
>that scene where asuka gets in bed with him while sleepwalking/"sleepwalking" and he practically motorboats her
>smashes the fast forward key
Wall of Jericho my ass.
>>134439529
This. Second age of OVAs and movies when?
>>134439473
Dude it's in the file name.
>>134434354
I like evangelion and Madoka Magica.
>>134435463
>Because depth isn't really about the message itself, it's about how it's presented.
I've told you before that this is incorrect.
>>134439529
Film is a better medium than television in general, so that's not terribly surprising.
>>134439651
No it isn't. A christian will tell you a work with a marxist message is dumb and shallow, and vice versa. But they can both admire a work for how well constructed it is. Also, what do you mean you told me before?
>>134439654
It's just a format of the same medium though.
>>134434354
Because people don't watch anime based on if it is good or bad or if they're interested in it or not.
They watch it based on how many threads it gets on /a/. I don't know how many times I've seen people say "I started watching it but nobodies talking about it so I dropped it".
>>134439985
No, it isn't. The expectations and possibilities allotted to the two are completely different.
>>134439529
That's fair enough. More budget, better staff. The only advantage that a series has is that it can last much longer than a film can and therefore cover more ground. Unfortunately, the amount of original content is absurdly low. Anyone who doesn't think that they're almost solely an advertising medium is delusional.
I simply like what I like, be it the most profound and beautiful representation of art and human existence or the most retarded piece of moe shit ever conceived.
Just because something appeals and/or has a certain significance to you it doesn't mean that it will also do the same for me.
>>134440060
Expectations? Sure. Possibilites? Nah.
>>134441073
>Possibilites? Nah.
Are you kidding? The type of story that you can tell in 2 hours is completely different than the kind you can tell in 6 or 12. An episodic format also changes things drastically.
This is basically like saying that you can do the same thing in a 20 page short story as you can in a 400 page novel. The two are completely different.
I like some shows people consider deep but not ever because they're deep, I don't think. Shit like Angel's Egg, Evangelion and so on, are often just very well directed and a pleasure to simply take in. Hell, I wish the show's themselves were less obtuse, if anything. I think all art lends itself to interpretive analysis. When a show seems to shout "look at how deep I am!" I can't help but roll my eyes.
>>134434354
There's is nothing deep in Evangelion.
It certainly tries to be deep, but the result is a meaningless pretentious trainwreck filled with random religious references.
>I chose the name because it sounds complicated.
- Hideaki Anno
>>134441507
There is*
>>134440047
That's because people are scared to start discussions or bring attention to series thanks to potentially attracting shitposters who will punch holes in any of the meager praise most anons let themselves utter (I'm sure you've seen posts in the "I like X even though it's shitty" vein before), or just outright shower them in buzzwords if they try a more analytic approach. Lots of people on this site have basically no fucking clue how to express themselves
>>134441507
what's anno got to do with anything?
>>134441507
>Namefag is a retard
People should get banned for even attempting to post with anything in the name box.
Its been like 15 years since i watched eva, maybe its time to watch it again.
Honestly, I'd rather not watch something that was made with the intent of being deep.
That's not to say I don't enjoy occasionally watching/reading something that blows my mind, or changes how I think about things; but I do appreciate mindless entertainment.
I work all day, I'm tired, the last thing I want to do is...
>watch some introspective adventure into some psychopaths mind...
>where he has to kill orbs of light that represent repressed childhood memories....
>climaxing a final encounter where he has to battle his former self...
>only to realize that all the orbs of light were actually rays of light entering his eyes...
>as they slowly closed for the last time because he OD'd on drugs...
>and the whole 3 hour movie actually took place over 10 seconds...
>and it represented his soul finally coming to terms with the fact that his mother didn't love him enough and...
...and I could watch that depressing/DEEP shit, or watch Non Non Byori. I choose choice B.
>>134434625
>Angel's Egg is a bit different in that I don't feel there is a strong message.
Seriously? It's pretty obviously about faith and doubt. It's supposed to make you feel what being a Chirstian is like.
>>134442083
i don't think deep really equates with depressing
>>134442163
Did the director explicitly state this, or are you just bullshitting? Because although there is a sort of vaguely mystical air that could be interpreted as religious I see no specific ties to Christianity.
>>134442388
i think he did, not that artist's intent is ever an acceptable interpretive starting point
>>134442433
He never explicitly states it, though he was a Christian in his early life and sought to become a priest before losing his faith and becoming a directory instead. I looked up some stuff on the subject and can see where people get this idea, though it's certainly not the only thing you can take away from it, nor do I think that it's horribly obvious as a theme.
The Devilman manga is about as deep as im prefer to go with the medium. A short story about loving someone enough to destroy the world and mankind a evil ways and its ability to rationalize complete destruction out of fear.
>>134442083
The thing is your definition of depressing is incredibly broad.
I don't exactly see how dicking around some crazy guys head is exactly depressing.
>>134442388
>Did the director explicitly state this
He did.
>sort of vaguely mystical air that could be interpreted as religious I see no specific ties to Christianity.
Noah's Ark, Angels, the dude carrying a cross, the girl putting her faith in something that might not exist, none of that is vague.
>>134442083
I don't understand why you can't watch both though. Why does it have to be mutually exclusive?
>>134442761
dude just said he prefers other stuff
>>134434991
But the best art appears to be normal and turns out to be strangely profound.
>>134434354
>Evangelion
>deep
u wot m8
>>134435712
The thing is that the work needs to earn your trust and investment and then if it is a story where "being deep" is appropriate and the writer and director can actually pull it off, the viewer can come to appreciate what the work is saying and genuinely want to understand it.
If they didn't really enjoy it and then it becomes deep they will just start to hate it.
>>134442388
Most of the symbollic elements in the show are tied to religion. Mamoru had a falling out with religion in his younger days.
>>134441329
Puzzles are fun anon. Especially with a few missing pieces and multiple solutions.
>multi-layered thematic exposition
I often wonder how to describe the word "deep" or if it is any context a word worth using, but this description made me laugh out loud. It's just a pretentious way of saying a show that has themes presented through multiple means is deep. I can think of a lot of mediocre anime which "multi-layered thematic exposition" could be applied to.
>>134443998
That's an issue of most entertainment mediums being mostly shallow as fuck because muh general masses.
>>134434354
I would like to disrespect the integrity of this film by saying I really want to fuck this loli. Just thought I'd put it out there.
Evangelion is deep, but it isn't any deeper or more artistic than something like Code Geass or Guilty Crown. Evangelion is good because it is technically well-made.
>>134439241
>More to the point, I don't actually watch a lot of anime in general. My attention is usually spent towards manga, because the expectation towards anime fans is almost unequivocally lazy. Mainstream manga suffers just the same, but there's plenty more to explore, particularly of the ebbs and flows avant garde manga artists over the last five decades.
FUCKING THANK YOU
>>134439241
What would you recommend as "deep"? I'm genuinely interested
>>134444353
>Evangelion is deep, but it isn't any deeper than Code Geass of Guilty Crown
You're contradicting yourself.
>>134444612
>>>/out/
>>134435463
>That's why animation is art and not a lecture.
How do you expect people to understand your work then? The average person is dumb as fuck and the only way they'll get it is if you explicitly explain to them what it is about.
>>134445286
What? You quoted the wrong person. What were you even trying to do? I'm not even op.
>>134445491
I don't know which of those two posts you are, but I didn't think either of them was OP.
>>134445542
That was my first post. This is my second.
Bloody hell.
Can someone please explain how Evangelion is "deep"?
>>134445622
I still don't know which of those two posts was your first one, but I wasn't implying that either of them wasn't. I can't even tell what you're mad about if you don't say which poster you are, you stupid Brit.
>>134445659
Read the thread.
>>134445659
Do you really have to ask this or are you just trying to perpetuate a shitty meme? Because it's not just an anime about fighting in robots. Shinji's struggle is deeper than that and it reflects Anno's own struggles. Have you even watched the series? And no, I'm not talking about the imagery or "symbolism". It's deep for its ideas about human relationships and its tying it in to a metaphysical idea at the end.
NGE is a mishmash of religious symbols with inexplicable, very loose or even non-existent connections to the actual storyline, bundled together with a cast of some sick, seemingly sociopathic and weird characters, plus a large dose of confusing science fiction. And I’m not just deducing all this based on the fact that after much thought, research and second viewings of episodes that I still don’t understand what the fuck most of what was injected into the story means as it was said :
Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool.
– Kazuya Tsurumaki, Assistant Director of Neon Genesis Evangelion
>>134434354
ITT: anime that makes u think
>>134434354
I really do enjoy anime that explores a theme in a fresh way. The way Lain is used as a vessel to explore not just aspects of personal identity, but the nature of the internet, prophesy, and even the end of the world, is really breathtaking.
I can even enjoy a series like Gakkou Gurashi! in spite of all its flaws because of how acutely it explores the idea of 'cult' as the beginning of 'culture'.
A big part of how deep a thing is comes down to an individual's capability of drawing out themes and motifs where they are and not where they're not. Lots of people who are anon are only capable of looking at things through a 'critical' lens, and in their hurry to find flaws and criticisms, they can easily miss the forest for the trees. I've even seen anon call Serial Experiments Lain 'slow paced' and 'nonsensical' in the same sentence; blissfully unaware of how those two things can be contradictory.
>>134443998
I describe "deep" as "metashit". Basically any story that tries to be something other than an entertaining story. I wouldn't describe Lain as deep for that reason. It has a fairly average plot told through a unique narrative. It never tells you how to live your life, spout propaganda, or the author projecting himself into the story (like Anno).
>>134445966
For >>134445659
By the way.
>>134445966
>a cast of some sick, seemingly sociopathic and weird characters
Yeah, this is the part people like and think is deep. Good job discovering a quote literally everyone has seen and knew about anyway, though.
>>134434354
yea
i prefer that the story isnt exactly clear and lets me try to figure it out on my own
>>134445966
Having no explicit meaning relating to Christianity does not mean that all of the symbolism in Eva is meaningless. This meme needs to end.
>>134446129
It has no Christian meaning. It doesn't have any meaning. Anno just thought it looked cool.
Calling evil robots names of angels from in the Bible, including the scene of a 14 year old masterbating over an unconscious girl and having vague endings isn’t “classic” to me. The Human Instrumentality Project is a bunch of artsy-fartsy bullshit that makes no sense to anyone not fond of thinking in the extreme abstract. Anno urges us to find our own answers because he himself has no answers for the very thing he created
>>134446198
No, Anno chose the name of the show because he though it sounded cool. The religious imagery exists to set a specific tone. It's not directly related to Christianity but it isn't meaningless.
/a/ doesn't even watch anime. Let alone "deep" anime.
>>134434354
I like Angel's Egg, Utena and Lain.
I won't pretend to understand Angel's Egg, but I thought Utena stood out pretty well as being deep but understandable. Lain isn't necessarily deep once they explain a lot at the end.
Evangelion is enjoyable but fairly pretentious. Religious symbolism for the sake of religious symbolism.
>>134446271
>artsy-fartsy bullshit that makes no sense to anyone not fond of thinking in the extreme abstract
Dude, it really was not that complicated. I don't understand how you could be confused by the concept of instrumentality.
>Calling evil robots names of angels from in the Bible
Oh I get it, you either weren't paying attention or you're just an idiot.
I enjoy what I enjoy, and don't like what I'm bored by.
I liked Texhnolyze and GITS, but Jin-Roh and Angel's Egg bored me to tears.
>>134446699
Religious symobols are there to look cool.
Actual symbolism is the shots of shinji's hand, his walkman, asuka's doll, those sorts of things. Along with some of the god tier cinematography in the show.
I liked perfect blue
>>134446980
You absolute madman
None of these works are deep since none of them make you enlightened.
>>134446761
>Angel's Egg bored me to tears.
Angel's Egg has an overwhelming amount of Christian symbolism used to tell a gripping personal tale, but if you can't pick up the references, there's no doubt that it would be boring to you. I really liked Angel's Egg, but I wouldn't casually recommend it to anyone else for that reason.
>>134446699
>Evangelion is enjoyable but fairly pretentious. Religious symbolism for the sake of religious symbolism.
The angels of revelation and 'third impact' are slightly clever, but there's no doubting Eva is more interesting from a psychological perspective than a philosophical or religious one.
I think Lain does a better job of using Christian symbolism than Eva, desu. The death of the beast of revelation and conceptualising of the internet itself as the second coming of Christ throws down all sorts of interesting questions in light of Christian theology: particularly Christian prophesy.
>>134446980
Millennium Actress and Paprika were both on par with it, imo. I'm amazed by Satoshi Kon's consistency as a director.
First, describing something you like on /a/ as "deep" is the equivalent of sticking your hand into a mousetrap. I don't do it because no one takes it seriously and it's difficult to define anyway.
I care more about anime that have emotional appeal rather than complexity. For example, Tatami Galaxy. It's not a deep or complex show at all; if you tried to write a paper on its thematic content it would probably come up short. But it resonated with me, and that's what I care about.
I also like shows that are just easy entertainment. Not like there isn't value in what /a/ calls "mindless fun" as long as it's well-made.
>>134447249
You could definitely write a paper about Tatami's thematic content and how that thematic content is delivered.
![[gg]_Mawaru_Penguindrum_-_01v2_[59E3CAF4].mkv_snapshot_08.14_[2015.07.04_15.44.36].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PeBcb1n.jpg "[gg]_Mawaru_Penguindrum_-_01v2_[59E3CAF4].mkv_snapshot_08.14_[2015.07.04_15.44.36].jpg")
Liking "deep anime" isn't about being "confident in your tastes." It's about enjoying anime that raises questions and requires thought and analysis over the course of watching it. Some people take pleasure in that activity. It doesn't necessarily mean the anime is good, some "deep" anime isn't very good but still gives you that mental exercise so it's enjoyable. I'd say Texchnolyze and Lain are both deep, thought-provoking, but also sort of mediocre. I'd even put some lesser-appreciated shows like Glasslip and Zvezda in this category, both of which kind of misrepresent themselves and fall flat at times for this reason.
By comparison, some anime requires zero analysis, doesn't reward deeper reflect, doesn't raise questions about itself, but is still fantastic. Slice-of-life shows like Nichijou or Azumanga Daioh fall under this.
Finally you get a category of masterpiece that is both thought-provoking and enjoyable and can be appreciated on several levels. This is where I think anime is at its best. Madoka, Evangelion, Penguindrum, a few examples of this. Not boring to people who aren't intellectually engaged, but not disappointing to people who demand a more intellectual exercise. I'd even say some slice-of-life shows fall under this category, like Yuyushiki and Non Non Biyori, both of which have deeper themes that reveal themselves on further reflection.
In other words, intellectual stimulation is just one level on which anime can be enjoyed, and an anime that is intellectually stimulating but nothing more than that is, in my view, not necessarily better than something with less "depth" but with other merits.
And just to be clear, yes I am saying Yuyushiki is as good as Evangelion.
>>134447362
About the delivery yes, about the actual philosophical implications probably not. Of course, you can't do that without interpreting the delivery.
>>134447249
As far as dens of masochism go, this one is pretty top notch.
>>134447362
I think the other anon has a point though. I could write over triple the amount about a show like Serial Experiments Lain than I could TTG, but there's no denying that TTG's message was delivered with an exceptional degree of flair and ultimately left a greater impression on me after having finished watching it for the first time.
>>134447508
That's true of everything. Even philosophy books are basically just a few pages of explaining the philosophical concept and then the rest of the book is explaining how the author came to that conclusion and why that conclusion is accurate.
>>134447371
>I'd say Texchnolyze and Lain are both deep, thought-provoking, but also sort of mediocre
The difference is that Tex had a lot more 'filler' episodes to get through. Tex could have done well with having eps 8-17 being heavily abridged, while SEL really only needed its first 2-3 episodes slightly shortened with at most a few minutes of atmospheric content cut from each..
>>134447712
Both of them should have been feature films instead of full series.
>>134446376
Forget it. They don't want to look further into it. Till the end of times people will get some out of context quotes from a guy that admittedly has trouble communicating to extrapolate on how all the imagery is meaningless since there's no direct relation to Christianity and since the name only won because it sounded cooler than the other choices in the ballot. Completely ignoring in the process that the christian imagery is just a means to an end and just the fact it's alien to their culture in itself already justifies it's choice.
>>134447756
There's absolutely no way you could fit either SEL or Tex into a film. SEL is around 4 and a half hours of content as it is, and if you were cutting out more than 10-20 minutes, you'd be destroying its message. SEL is already blunt with its symbolism as it is, and people still struggle to make sense of it.
As for Tex, I think you could probably squeeze a 1-cour series out of it. Maybe a 15 episode series. Something like that.
>mfw people use the intentional fallacy in interpreting deep anime
If I ever meet your high school English teachers, I'm punching all of them in the crotch
The only anime to ever make me seriously think was Serial Experiments Lain. When I first watched it, I couldn't stop thinking and pondering about what was going on.
For everything else, I didn't care enough/wasn't engaged enough to think about it (Penguindrum, NGE) or it was actually piss-easy to understand if you simply paid attention and didn't really require me to think. (Madoka, Tex)
I did think about Haibane for awhile because I was interested in the world, but its fairly obvious.
>>134447092
>but if you can't pick up the references, there's no doubt that it would be boring to you.
Not him, but are you saying there aren't people who can pick up the references and still find it boring?
>>134448133
>I did think about Haibane for awhile because I was interested in the world, but its fairly obvious.
It was certainly left open-ended, but with the themes of sin and redemption, it wasn't too hard to guess it was something along the lines of:The charcoal feathers are in a sort of purgatory, having been reborn after committing suicide.
I think Haibane Renmei was more of a character-focused story and was doing everything it could to leave its themes in the background, in stark contrast to SEL, which was extremely upfront about presenting the viewer with a mystery steeped in symbolism and presented with abstruse direction.
>>134448240
>are you saying there aren't people who can pick up the references and still find it boring?
Well, I'm sure that they exist, but they'd be a small minority. Angel's Egg leaves you with enough to think about that it shouldn't be boring if you're willing to think hard about why you're seeing what you're seeing and you are able to pick up what the director laid down.
>>134448133
Read "Exile and the Kingdom" by Camus and then watch Glasslip. Enjoy being one of the 20 or so people who actually understand its deeper themes.
>>134448405
I am 100 years too early to even consider the possibility of understanding and comprehending Glasslip.
>>134448405
>Enjoy being one of the 20 or so people who actually understand its deeper themes.
So it's a boring slice of life that goes nowhere 'on purpose'? Well I never.
>>134448391
It's boring since it's the same thing. There is nothing deep about messages such as humanity is a bunch of a shitters.
>>134449326
>There is nothing deep about messages such as humanity is a bunch of a shitters.
>I didn't get it
Good for you anon.
it's always bothered me how plens hold a "deep" work to be one that relates to grimdark existentialism, or some other edgy my-first-philosophy
I know that doesn't account for everyone, but it certainly seems to be what's intended when using the word
>>134449326
>>134448133
Neither Angel's Egg nor Tex (not sure which you're replying to) are about that. Not every message comes as a sermon on human morality.
Form matters in art., and form can be a kind of message itself. Angel's Egg is the most extreme example, Tex also does a great job with this because the work's ideas on human physicality and the interplay with robotics are presented primarily through directorial decisions, including all those painstaking walking scenes.
Lain is great but it doesn't actually do much in terms of stunning directing or anything. You basically get told and shown some clues from which you can puzzle out the themes wrt god as a machine/network.
Being deep is less important than being artistically significant.
That's why Evangelion is deep while something like Ghost in the Shell: Innocence is "deep" (hamfisted quoting of continental philosophers is awful).
Themes alone never make something good. It is about how those themes are executed.
What are you talking about OP? /a/ does love deep anime. They just are tsundere about it
Eva and Utena are good. Lain is ok, but the ending is bad. Technolyze is better. Deep anime are nice.
When I try and think of a "deep" anime/manga the first one that comes to mind is Oyasumi Pun Pun. From a constantly shifting abstract main character to literal discussions with god it kind of checks off all the boxes.
The second would probably be Flowers of Evil. I really like FoE because I always go back and retread it hoping to understand more of what the author meant and why he wanted to write that story.
I'd define deep as a story with enough substance so that you can keep on coming back and questioning it, looking at it from different angles. This can be executed poorly either by not being deep enough to be able to look into it further, or by making a story so... needlessly layered that there isn't a clear point.
>>134452570
>checks off all the boxes
Which is exactly what it shouldn't be. If those are your idea of deep, then no offense, you should keep reading.
>>134452444
>Lain is ok, but the ending is bad.
I think the main problem with the ending of Lain is that episodes 5-10 are so jam packed with mysteries which you're trying to retroactively solve, that it's difficult to keep up with the significance of what's going on at the end itself.
I don't think the ending itself is at all bad, but demanding the audience to have kept up with it to that point is a bit taxing.
>>134448133
Ever watch any of Sotoshi Kon's work?
>>134451913
Do you even know what you are saying?
>>134453178
Paranoia Agent drags on with its gimmick for a little too long, but his movies are all excellent.
>>134446008
>how acutely it explores the idea of 'cult' as the beginning of 'culture'.
Jesus fuck, I'd hate to eat what you think is a good sandwich.
Stay away from my cute-girls-doing-cute-genre-tropes, m8.
>>134447371
>This is where I think anime is at its best
>Madoka
>but not disappointing to people who demand a more intellectual exercise
>Madoka
>>134448405
>camus
>good
>>134451303
deep means not mindless kawaii sliceoflife/fighting/comedy.
>>134454160
As much as it was a fun twist on CGDCT, there's no denying that Gakkou Gurashi! had some interesting thematic ideas. The acceptance of Yuki's delusion became the criterion by which they could share a sense of 'us', and mutual trust, from which social codes were constructed over the time of the show. At the end, the question of belief was re-packaged to the audience as whether or not they believed thatTaroumaru was still alive.
It's no masterpiece, but that doesn't mean it didn't give the audience some interesting ideas to ponder over, not to mention pic related (escapism).
I feel like people give some series to many point for being "2deep4u". Was there a series that had what people would call deep themes but most people would consider it shit anyway? I'm asking this mainly because Madoka exists.
>>134455062
Psycho Pass tries to be deep and utterly fails.
>>134455133
Psycho Pass is fairly well regarded by most people.
The second season isn't though, so I guess that would be your example.
What about Aku no Hana? I'm a secondary that never read the manga. But I'm planning to. I absolutely loved the vibe they gave me. I'm really absorbed in the world.
The art style is not the most pleasant to the eyes but the anime itself, it felt beautiful. Strange
>>134455221
I'm talking about both seasons. On a surface level, it's well directed, but its philosophy and social commentary is completely baseless.
>>134455062
It goes both ways.
>>134435526
I've admitted to many an unpopular opinion on /a/ over the years, including analysis of stuff like Haibane Renmei, Lain, Paprika, the 80's OVA scene, etc, and I rarely get a dissenting opinion.
The thing is, I rarely get any replies at all. Ever. More often than not, a thread will die with my post being the last reply.
I am not sure if this is because most people agree with my post and see no reason to add on to it, or because my posts are so uninteresting that not even trolls feel the need to reply. If its the former, that is perfectly OK, and I guess the latter is OK. It just feels wrong to be completely uninspiring.I may be asking for an answer here
>>134455455
Here's your reply.
No one cares.
>>134455455
When you have so many threads on the catalog competing for peoples' attention, it's hard.
Your complex analysis won't draw in anyone from the catalog. You either have to ask a somewhat broad question or say something immediately controversial (shitposting works but isn't ideal). That brings people to reply to your thread, and after about 10 replies or so you samefag your analysis or whatever.
>>134455455
Controversial or aggravatory posts always yield the most replies. Or idiotic ones.
I do enjoy watching weird experimental shorts even if most of them are senseless (or too deep for me and I miss their meaning), does that count?
>>134455607
As long as it is not ME!ME!ME!, yes.
I have the same obsession with the early OVAs.
>>134455607
I read some 60-70s manga for the same result.
>>134455692
I mean stuff likeYuji Kori shorts, more weird than deep.
I like anime that show an author has made a lot of research about something totally non related to Japan. Fate, Berserk, Vinland Saga, of course Evangelion but also all the sports/culinary mangas that explain things only a specialist or professional would know. I've never seen such interest for other cultures, such amounts of research about any subject in any other country.
'Deep' anime are in that category. The one where an author can't start a story just with a few characters, like a lot of moe/harem/ecchi 'plots'.
But then I would call Air and Clannad 'deep' too, only on the mental aspect. You don't have to think only about the characters feelings, but also the public, and when a love story has such an impact on people, well I think it can be called 'deep' too.
>>134455455
think of all the times you read a post and were more or less with the author but had no insight or comment cause they already covered it or knew more about the topic than you
