https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
Hello /x/.
I never liked the general format. If anyone following the threads noticed I shifted away from the general format when I posted in /his/, electing to use specific topics. I'll probably be going back to that form, and how I originally used to post, given the rise of the /x/ themed generals after /div/. Given how much of the topic's material is in the Sloane MSS, it's probably a decent time to cover trajectories of so-called "Wicca" and "Traditional Craft", and the histories that give rise to both.
At this point it's pretty well common knowledge that Gardner essentially pulled Wicca from his ass with a touch of help from Crowley and various other sources. While Gardner himself may have been a weak mage, he very clearly understood the basic principles of initiation (looking through the Book of Shadow) and ended up putting together a current (if we're talking BTW) of folks who can more or less hold their own with more temple oriented practice. Then Doreen Valiente came along and decided to make Wicca a part of the “New Age” expansion of common thought, ending today with a bajillion shitty books at Barnes and Noble in their New Age section all about “Wicca”.
But what about “witchcraft” in an English speaking context? Joel B. has long complained (among others, and I've agreed) that there appears to be a missing “cunning” tradition between the death of conjectural alchemy and the publication of Levi. Rumor about lines of transmission has flown in many directions. You had people avowing to witchcraft before Gardner and it's NOT the usual suspects, guys like Cochraine notwithstanding.
>>17860271
In the early 1900's, exactly when's not the most clear, it was after transmission of 65 & 7 but before the first Equinox dropped, Crowley met a young man who would go on to found what many would call a precursor to Chaos Magic, his name was Austin Spare, and he worked as a printer showing great talents with art, and a good apprehension of the Golden Dawn (exemplified in art used in Equinox). He came to Crowley with a story that raised his eyebrow. Spare claimed an initiation into a hereditary line of witches based out of Essex that his aunt oversaw. One of their central practices, he claimed, was the offering of various items to urns or witch bottles, sometimes including blood or sexual fluids. Crowley taught much the same material, in terms of bodily offerings, and quickly taught Spare everything he could. This wellspring of information only led him to cling to his old practices harder, eventually leading to Crowley's frustration and eventually Spare's expulsion from the A.'.A.'. for not working the other materials.
A few points about the above story: One, if nothing else, the fear of witchcraft in Essex was very real, and at one point over a quarter of the town's young women were accused. Two: Whether he spoke with Spare about it or not, Crowley had been known by a few people close to him to talk about a hereditary witch cult he declined initiation into because he was still a belligerent youth. Three: The bottle thing is probably more significant than we think.
>>17860281
American museums are currently in possession of a number of intact but utterly baffling pieces of glass and stoneware from the middle colonization period of North America, say, late 1600's. They bear on them a number of sigils that appear derived from Agrippa's methods of combining letters, a method that Spare would later to on to perfect as an artform. We aren't sure what these bottles were used for. Moreover, we've found in the Sloane MSS a text called The Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet, which has largely sat ignored, because “literally who” in a collection with Dee. It reflects the other side of British occult experimentation: Cunning men in the lower-middle classes working fragments of established ritual magic alongside folk remedy, whereas Dee was in the royal court.
Murray's concept of the witch cult may have been btfo out long ago, however, circumstantial evidence is mounting that the underlying idea of a witch cult in and of itself is valid. This would explain things like Joseph Smith's access to Agrippan materials, the intersection of Anglican anxiety and lexical taboo, and probably Spare's whole everything, as he didn't have access to modern materials, and it's hard to imagine him catching on two known themes of early occultists in colonial America by pure coincidence when there's so much other material available to riff off of.
Aww yes, in for the best thread.
>>17860306
Here in Appalachia there is, or was, a longstanding practice of witch cunning coming from the Isles and parts of Germany. They were a mix of midwives and chaos magicians in a highly syncretic tradition. I'm not from the heart of it, but I did learn a thing or two about finding ginseng and various uses for stumpwater, toads, burying shit on various moon phases and herbs. Mostly based around removing warts of varying degrees of literality. What I missed out on due to being 6 at the time was useful herblore and just about everything you mentioned, though there were a lot of 'birdhouse' gourds that never left the barn. My marksmanship is more than sufficient though.
I'd suggest combing the foxfire books as I remember there being a pinch on local practices, but I was also 6 when I read those and a suburban lifestyle of material hedonism has rendered my memory a bit hazy so YMMV.
>>17860306
Concerning these bottles and glassware that wre found...
have they ,to your knowledge been tested in any way for traces of any blood or other fluids?
>>17860334
It's weird, these do sort of seem like the best threads I've come across.
>Here in Appalachia
Holy shit, now there's a question - are there any good books on Appalachian magic?
>>17860361
Nope.
It's be nice, but nope. Also, residues may be misleading. Archaeology's not an "exact" science.
>>17860351
>Appalachia
I talk to a cunning crafter out that direction. There's a difference between common folk herbalism and the sort of higher order cults I'm referring do. These guys probably worked grimoires, your local hedge witch may or may not.
Now, not to say they aren't out there, but I'm talking about something rather more incomplete in terms of our working knowledge about reality, rumor, myth, etc.
It's pretty clear that whatever high-order "witchcraft" tradition was on American shores more or less died by late 1700's. This is also likely the case for MOST iterations of Euro witchcraft, but I can't speak for all times and systems...my point is that obviously the grimoire tradition survived as "cunning craft" somewhere, somehow, before the rise of ""modern"" ceremonial magick.
How we get from point A to B is going to take a lot of fucking research.
>>17860383
>are there any good books on Appalachian magic
The synthesis of crystal methamphetamine is a good start.
>>17860455
Uncle Fester is a son of Wisconsin, mate.
>>17860383
Considering it was an oral tradition no one cared about until we ran out of savages to study and ethnographers at third rate local colleges only dug into it in the 90s, there isn't much and I haven't really done the research. I'm sure there's something though, foxfire has bits and pieces spread over volumes of indispensable knowledge.
What I did dig into was folklore. Jacktales, ghost stories, tall tales and the like. That is where you will find what little information remains of anything older.
>>17860413
I have suspicions that /something/ went on after that time. 1850s at the latest though. The folkloric fragments bear too many marks that ring familiar and my intuition tells me that where there be masons, there be some real workers of the cræfte magickal.
>Reading through Kapleau and Suzuki
>Listening to Osho's commentaries on Bodhidharma
>have to edit three seperate news pieces concerning Buddhism in a span of a few days
well now, this is certainly amusing
Can someone direct me to some books on the occult that are written by some hard sciences phds instead of soft science hacks?
Recently went into a physics degree and my worldview is falling down around me.
I'm from michigan, just to give some locality to this.
My mother was initiated into some sort of cunning tradition at the age of thirteen by an aunt. While I was never initiated growing up, my mother did teach me much about herbalism, various folk remedies, wild crafting, communication with the dead, warding, and basic spellcraft. She refused to teach me hexes or anything relating to familiars. My sister received much the same instruction to my knowledge, but I'm convinced she was initiated. Neither will speak openly about it though.
>>17860383
The Foxfire Books have some stuff in them on that subject.
>>17860593
>93
>soft science
>hacks
>thinks it's the physics that's changing his worldview
Yeah, you sound like a real fucking treat to be around in the department, bud. So glad I never had to deal with fuckwits like you while I was putting in time on electron microscopy and x-ray diffraction.
>>17860616
You never did that, ape, you edgy tripfag 12-year-old
>>17860633
Thanks for the bump ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
>>17860596
I mostly wanted to say that the traditions aren't fully dead but are as ape said, unaccounted for.
>>17860593
>my worldview is falling down around me.
Mind expanding on that?
![Thomas Campbell - [My Big TOE 01] - Awakening (pdf).jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9IVMH6G.jpg "Thomas Campbell - [My Big TOE 01] - Awakening (pdf).jpg")
>>17860593
>some books on the occult that are written by some hard sciences phds
Thomas Campbell's MBT is essentially Gnosticism 101 done by an extremely autismal physics science man.
>>17860596
Please consider documenting what you learned and releasing it on Internet.
>>17860596
no she wasn't, she was accepted into a stupid girls club that practices shitty folk medicine no boys allowed and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.
>>17860932
Or they know he won't survive the trials to become kwisatz haderach and lead us in the great jihad against the profane. Also like 95 percent of secret girl magic involves blood.
>>17860965
because they're edgy retards that mess with srs business like blood magic because they think they're all that and a bag of dicks.
>>17860973
You seem a little fanny flustered you will never get to wear the horn(s) and cavort with crazy bitches under the full moon, them kissing your devil's mouth in holy pact.
Memories of a misspent youth.
>>17860991
because their stupid cult has no idea what they're getting into.
on the off chance when idiots like these succeed, they get fucked up and either go nuts or become christfags.
>>17861000
And what was I getting into besides for teen orgies and gnosticism?
>>17861000
And why do you care?
>>17861039
because it causes a rise in the obnoxious christfags.
>>17860271
/omg/ was a thing before /div/ tho.
And you are our resident tripfag, with a bunch of faggot friends, that basically have the monopoly of what is "occult" and what can be talked about here, without admitting any different views. That's basically the reason why generals are discouraged, especially the ones with resident tripfags, discussion becomes sterile and OC is rare.
>>17861050
You know you let them win if they annoy you. Laugh and become fat you frail fuck.
God forbids sorcery. For your own sake, abandon this talk of witchcraft.
>>17861059
Then why was it the will of god to reward the first sorcerer? Instead of death he was sent to wander and granted life and riches.
>>17861059
The prince of darkness is a gentleman.
>>17861059
>sorcery
i'm just like staring at walls, senpai
>>17861056
I don't give a wet shit what people talk about, though.
>>17861059
Pic infinitely related.
What does /omg/ think about Julius Evola?
Is it just a circle-jerk of self-importance?
>>17861881
His books are included in the K/Ape's Library
>>17860306
>American museums are currently in possession of a number of intact but utterly baffling pieces of glass and stoneware from the middle colonization period of North America, say, late 1600's.
I wonder whether the tradition might have arrived even earlier, with the beginning of the Great Migration. The troubles in New England began in 1645, not long at all after the migration began. It's tough to make definite statements, though. The witch scares were cyclical and seemed to arise out of a fairly clear social dynamic. The question is whether there was fire behind all the smoke. One of my apparent ancestors was accused of practicing astrology, accused of claiming that she'd learned from William Lilly. Even if there were nothing to the accusation, it's curious that they should have known of Lilly and his work.
>It's pretty clear that whatever high-order "witchcraft" tradition was on American shores more or less died by late 1700's.
How so?
I wonder about the elder Joseph Smith.
>>17861056
>And you are our resident tripfag, with a bunch of faggot friends, that basically have the monopoly of what is "occult" and what can be talked about here, without admitting any different views.
kek
>>17862468
>Joseph Smith
I'd honestly imply that the practice of "traditional cunning craft" was dead(ish) by the time Smith rolled around.
He appears to have gotten to Agrippa via Freemasonry, rather than through a local folk tradition, but who knows at this point.
>The witch scares were cyclical and seemed to arise out of a fairly clear social dynamic
Aye. My last postings on epistemology of belief and linguistic taboo have me thinking that perhaps the reason why we don't hear old witch tales with more validity is perhaps the Anglican taboo's stronger than most, instead of not talking about it save in hushed tones, you just plain don't talk about it.
I remember when I first started growing an interest in this shit through middle school and how INCREDIBLY HARD people tried to dissuade me or convince me it didn't exist, and when the "it doesn't exist" line didn't work they accused my drawing and jewelry of being "gang related" so I wouldn't be allowed to display them.
>Lilly
Sounds like a "higher order" Ashmolean/Dee type transmission rather than in the mud farming trenches.
I agree though at the end of the day all we can do is our best detective work; there's a fat gap in our record and making evidence fit circumstance takes priority over making circumstance fit evidence.
Of all the stories about the survival of a witch cult, the two compelling pieces of evidence, for me, are Spare, and whatever the fuck these witch jugs are/were.
I wish more people would stress the experimentation part, you would be surprised about the results that could manifest.
>>17860271
im new to occult, and was wondering if there was a oreder to the books in the beginners folder, or should i just read them at will?
>>17862783
>wants people to experiment more
>dismisses Lemegeton as "bad"
>thinks Lemegeton entities are "demons"
>>ignoring the findings of others, and the direct wording of the older manuscripts while dissuading people from attempting them
lyl
>>17862768
>I agree though at the end of the day all we can do is our best detective work; there's a fat gap in our record and making evidence fit circumstance takes priority over making circumstance fit evidence.
Yep.
Smith Sr was born in 1771, in MA, and moved to Vermont, wch had also been settled in part by folks from Connecticut. It was in VT that he started searching for treasure and that sort of activity often had a magical component.
Possibility is not probability, of course, but there's at least a little cover for this one. I doubt we could ever get to the bottom of it, at this remove.
>Of all the stories about the survival of a witch cult, the two compelling pieces of evidence, for me, are Spare, and whatever the fuck these witch jugs are/were.
Agreed. Where have they been found?
>>17862783
???
>>17862791
There's no particular order. Many of us started with, Prometheus Rising, but go wherever your interest takes you.
>>17862794
They are not demons, they are angels.
Joy of satan is not satanic.
Satanic means and represents good things anon.
>ill just try and indoctrinate everyone with demonology instead of Enochian concepts at the least.
>72 goetian angels guise
>>17862816
>ill just try and indoctrinate everyone with demonology instead of Enochian concepts at the least.
I thought we'd already established that you don't know much about Enochian?
>>17862822
>Enochian
Enochian is for retards who wife swap so no one cares.
>>17862822
That was never a thing.
I dont label my work and experience by that of the next man. Yet there are still correlating events and information still they remain separate in being.
But please continue to allude to me being ignorant because I choose my own path.
>>17862816
What in the blue fuck are you rambling on about.
>>17862822
Yeah, that was a foregone conclusion.
>>17862806
alright cool, thanks.
>>17862826
http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/goetia.htm
>ctrl+f
>"demon"
>0 results
>>17862829
#banti
>>17860593
Bro do you even Jack Parsons???????
I mean Jet Propulsion Laboratory and his stated religion is thelema
>>17862842
>dignifying him with a placatory response
No, let his worldview corrode until he learns his lessons.
>>17862837
gasp
birds are plenty important sir.
>>17862833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demons_in_the_Ars_Goetia
>Shilling this hard
Satanic tripfag shiling confirmed
>>17862826
>But please continue to allude to me being ignorant because I choose my own path.
No, I don't care about that. I'm reading your comments. Things like this >>17862885 make you look ignorant as fuck.
>>17862860
Yeah you are right, I dun took the bait.
Btw, this thread seems rather strange...folk magick as a while is based upon charisma and animism as well as closely cultivation d personal worldview....expecting hard-line "scholarly" hermetic types to understand what is essentially a "feel it as you go" path of energy working seems rough. Yes there are organized "witch" cults but these are aromatics looking to capture the state sponsored paganism feels of old. I come from the river valley lands of the american Midwest, witchcraft to me isn't a group effort....its more like the sorcerer class in D&D
>>17862902
I post asinine slightly you act like the a recurring event. I am simply making fun of him using board culture on how he just tried to spin the 72 goetia.
>>17862885
>Who cares what the Sloane MSS, the source(s) of the very practices in discussion, calls these entities, I'll just call 'em demons because who gives a shit about experimental replication!
So you're just here to FUNpost?
>>17862923
Lay off the crackpipe.
>>17862923
>board culture
>>17862909
>feel it as you go
But there's obviously lines of transmission of established "high magic" components in this subject given the content of the Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet.
If we let folk status act as a barrier to study, there shouldn't be stacks and stacks of anthropological work produced each year.
>>17862925
>being a fucking autist
The spirits of the Goetia are literally 100% Demons, regardless of whether that's good or bad. It doesn't need to be explicitly said.
Your autism is seriously unbearable.
>>17862923
Making fun of him just makes you look that much more ignorant. You're not doing it because you actually know more than he does. You're doing it because you don't.
>>17862951
>it's totes demunz, guise
see
>>17862833
Other Sloane MSS in my library (there's plenty), Red & Black Books, etc.
>>17862909
An organized cultus strides the gap between folk magic and dogmatic scholasticism. Like vodou, it is a community effort. I come from near Appalachia and everything was a community effort until recently. We're dealing with clan, kin, and bonds beyond blood.
What we are speculating on here is that, given said information, along with evidence that practices migrated here and the fact that they were known to continue in the isles until the 19th century, what was it and how long did it continue? I can say with some certainty that beyond the folk practices, there is a higher system that some of them stem from. I also intuit that certain local customs are not christian in origin, but nothing I can pin down.
>>17862949
Actually one would argue the high magic components you are arguing actually are remnants of the older mystery achools that existed within pagan states like rome and Greece. They had established workings and rituals that could've survived by oral tradition and non you lished means. It's like you think people didn't practice magick prior to the existence of Judeo-Christianity and alchemists/hermetics in the middle ages. Magick is a universal truth, just like computer programming you could discover methods and means of utilizing it without ever reading a book on it or being told how. Obviously separate cultures discovered underlying mechanics of magick at different times and phases....arr you implying that Hindu magick is also derived from "high magic"? Is it nit possible that they discovered the same mechanisms of the universe but labeled them different and devrloped different systems to access and manipulate them? God damn your autisim is strong. "B-b-but this grimoire" dude go read some Pete Carroll, ray Sherwin,or Austin spare please....not everything comes from a established grimoire....that being said most organized, modern, "witch cults" like gardnerianism and Alexanderism blatantly took from their material from high magick and then hand tailored their own goddess lore to accompany it. But not all organized witch cults operate like that, nor do many good ones even care to trace their lineage back to such obvious hacks, or to trace their lineage at all for that matter. Establishment wiccans who care about being part of a particular sect or tradition hardly practice witchcraft, they are just Christians who replaced Jehovah with a goddess amd her horned consort...still act the same.
>>17862963
>Paimon is obedient to Lucifer
>several spirits clearly described as fallen
>conjurations and curses threaten them with the names of YHVH
Just stop. Your autism and blind denial is going to give me a stroke.
>>17862963
They seem to fit the Socratic definition of spiritual beings that aren't gods and the Jewish definition of spiritual beings that have physical desires and wills apart from pleasing God like humans
>>17862984
>Actually one would argue the high magic components you are arguing actually are remnants of the older mystery achools that existed within pagan states like rome and Greece.
I don't think you understand what's under discussion, to be honest.
>>17862988
>They seem to fit the Socratic definition of spiritual beings that aren't gods
Not in all cases, though.
>>17862975
Yes there is a higher order they probably did gather their traditions from. You act like Europe wasnts inhabited by organized societies with set rituals and practices in their pagan dogma...rome wasn't built on folk magick, and the greek and greater Hellenic area's mystery schools traditions just didn't disappear....they have lived on in prose and poems and even in other religions(Catholicism took their feasts and holidays for example) so all one has to do ia find all the varying pieces and reconstruct it aa beat as you an and then add personal flavor and fill in the gaps. Whether or not a true unifies agreed upon "witch tradition" existed is extremely hard to speculate....most pf it whether in euorpe or in America is RECONSTRUCTIONISM. so even if it cam here form Europe, it was probably still reconstructes their from remnants of actual pre-christenom organized religions that dominates the european mainland and Scandinavia
>>17862986
>calling him names negates the fact that the Sloane MSS use the intentionally neutral term "spirit".
>>17862988
I wouldn't inherently disagree, IJS, coming at this in terms of "demons" in the usually Christist notion privileges a Christist interpretation of the range of phenomena that may not fit the actual observations.
>>17862986
>mfw Mahazael's the unfallen Angel of Logos
>hmmm.jpg
>>17862984
I don't think I implied Christianity; we all know that the term "goetia" is derived from the Greek Magickal Papyri anyhow. Moreover, much of what we call "ritual magick" seems to have been innovated largely by near eastern Mandaean cults and other groups integrating old and new systems outside the confines of traditional Christism and Islam.
>>17862768
Sorry, why are they evidence of a witch cult and not a folk magic practice?
>>17862990
What it appears to me is that someone is seeking some unified one pure source of the line of the witch cults, which doesn't even make sense given most modenr neo-pagan organizations obviously draw from multiple cultures. They literally embrace Gaelic and Mediterranean traditions and blend them togethe, some even mix Persian(Zoroastrianism) and Asian concepts in as well.
>>17862996
>spirits can't be Demons
>Lucifer is not a Demon
>"fall" doesn't refer to those fallen from grace
Now you're just being dense.
If we're using the word Demon in a Christian sense, then the Goetic spirits are Demons. Just because some Renaissance pussy calls them spirits to avoid being hanged doesn't mean that they're not Demons.
>>17862994
That makes it syncretic, not reconstructed. What we are looking at here is the existence of groups that never converted and were known to exist until the 16th century.
>>17863009
Show me in any line of myth or doctrine where Mahazael's implied or directly stated to have moved from a state of equipoise.
So, I repeat, why would I want to give the Christist interpretation the time of day?
>>17863006
More like I'm looking at possible lines of transmission for something that we either don't know about or only know about in HIGHLY derivative forms.
>>17862998
Folk practice does not imply grimoire tradition, which was usually thought of as a high-brow experimental mode for the educated, contrasted against folk practices which imply otherwise. Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet plus the similarities of evidence for American colonial occultism being integrated by Spare, who claimed contact with a cult that he also claimed worked things it's clear early colonial occultists worked, but had, presumably, no knowledge of colonial telismatic bottles that have been found.
Really all I'm wondering is in what ways the grimoire tradition intersected with the folk practices; if there's a clear line we can draw between one and the other. Much like Grimorium Verum v. Grandier's Confession, there are probably a pile of missing texts that clear everything up in a jiffy.
>>17862996
You're right, I was being pedantic here>>17862988
Are you implying that mahazael was the word that was with God that incarnated as yeshu ha-notzri?
>>17863009
The Christian lense isn't a good one here because there isn't the space for the sort of ambiguity there is in the Greek and Jewish definitions. To be any being that isn't a living human that has a will apart from god's is to be fully in rebellion against him. I know, the lucifer references, but there are sources which predate that mythos
>>17860361
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_bottle
http://archive.archaeology.org/online/features/halloween/witch_bottle.html
>>17860383
The only book I can recall on the subject is "Candle and Crossroads", available at amazon. There are, however, a number of early american pamphlets or tracts concerning white Protestant (as opposed to black catholic) rootwork for personal health and gain.
>>17863006
That didn't help. Have you read, The Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet?
>>17863016
Ah, they possibly do exist but due to the cultural extremities of those ages I can only imagine they seriously endeavored to be very hidden an remain VERY obscured from public view. I can only assume this was a time of heavy oral tradition and maybe even the working groups only having one shares grimoire that the priest/prieatess had control of and was passed down in some sort of line of succession. It may very well be traceable, tho the pieces will be hard to find i wouod wager. I am almost certain that they must exist...the concepts although very much alive in other mediums are still to solid to have entirely been loat for any period of time. I am now fully convinced the efforts of the logical people in this thread are on the right track. I apologize for my previous posts and most of my contributions are being made while at work and literally in meetings haha. That and i dont want to cause any more arguments when there are already ignorant trolls in this thread still stuck on arguing about the semantics of "demons". Also I apologize for the spelling and grammatical content of my posts as they have all been lengthy and posted from an Android phone, I assure you I am not a neanderthal kek>>17863016
>>17863023
>why would I want to give the Christist interpretation the time of day?
Because the whole premise of the Goetia is the binding of the Demons by Solomon. Half the book is literally curses against the spirits using angelic names and the names of YHVH.
All the descriptions of the spirits are through a christian lens. Idgaf about Christianity, but by any fucking Christian definition (there is no other kind), the Goetic spirits are Demons.
Holy fuck are you dense
>>17863024
>The Christian lense isn't a good one here because there isn't the space for the sort of ambiguity there is in the Greek and Jewish definitions.
This is a purely semantic argument. The Goetic spirits are clearly both Christian demons and Greek daemons. Ape is just too fucking autistic to understand that.
>>17863040
>Idgaf about Christianity, but by any fucking Christian definition (there is no other kind)
That's fucking hilarious. His jimmies are actually on fire.
Speaking of drooling fuckwits, did rekt ever resurface?
>>17863023
>Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet plus the...cast the previous dichotomy into question...plus the similarities of evidence...
>>17863027
>Delaware County, PA
Now that's a head scratcher. Liberal v. hyperpuritan sensibilities...and that's before the Borderer migration too, holy shit, 1644, before even the Quakers came, and possibly before they even formed.
Also, Ashmolean transmissions are back on the table I fuckin' guess.
>>17863045
>daemons
Then say daemon, because in case you're just plain illiterate, I'll repeat:
>>17862996
>***I wouldn't inherently disagree, IJS, coming at this in terms of "demons" in the usually Christist notion privileges a Christist interpretation*** of the range of phenomena that may not fit the actual observations.
Emphasis added; mean what you say and say what you mean.
>>17863056
>Emphasis added; mean what you say and say what you mean.
Just fucking admit that the Goetic spirits fit the description of christian demons.
I have always called them Demons and will continue for the sake of clarity and simplicity because everyone knows what I mean when I use that word. It can be assumed I'm talking about the Goetia when I use Demon instead of Daemon. Everybody but you understands that.
>>17863072
>Goetia when I use Demon instead of Daemon. Everybody but you understands that.
Have you, just by any off chance, actually read Geosophia, let alone the GMP?
Because most serious practitioners of the grimoire tradition chuckle at people saying Goetia instead of Lemegeton; it implies they're incredible newfags given all the work that's been done lately to disentangle the old grimoire tradition from materials like things used in the old Greek mystery cults.
The word "Goes" via GMP and similar is where the word "Goetia" comes from in the first place. So, actually, these days, when you say "Goetia" in the researching and practical community these days, they think you mean Greek reconstructive material, rather than Lemegeton.
If you don't think this is the case please feel free to lay out your argument somewhere you can tag Jake Stratton Kent and sit tight before he demolishes you.
>>17863079
This
>>17863037
Then we sort of agree. I see something beyond the usual folk magic that doesn't have a higher order of philosophy behind it, I see it having the roots the practices stem from. I don't care if it's syncretic, I just want to know what it is to put some of those practices into their own perspective.
Moving on, I think that other currents were in a constant state of revival as opposed to reconstruction. I doubt there were more than a handful of actual witch cults, but don't doubt for a second that there weren't solitary transmission lineages being continually revived like any other craft or trade.
>>17863079
I say Goetia because 3/4s of the Lemegeton is mind numbing angelshit. I say Demon because that's the commonly used term that everyone understands. My choice of words wont be dictated by academics who probably never even evoked a Demon successfully.
When you say practitioners, you probably mean GD retards who chip out 2k for lions skin and think that makes them wizards.
>>17863101
No, I mean more like Jake Stratton Kent, the current practical authority on the matter, but hey, fuck him too, right?
>>17863100
Agreed, I think this is a very safe and logical way of thinking in a matter as convoluted by history as this one is
>>17863111
Let him go, he is clearly too autistic, although I applaud your efforts to being the latern of illumination before his eyes.
Forget him and return to the greater thread
>>17863100
>>17863147
Now that I am fairly certain there is more beyond, I am eager to grasp it
>>17863111
>the current practical authority
The man looks like a tremendous bitchboy.
I just read one of his interviews. Why exactly is he better than anyone else? He doesn't seem significant at first glance in any way.
>>17863151
He's not autistic, merely blinded by pride. I understand the temptation.
>>17863050
>"...the bottle was manufactured around 1740 and may have been buried about 1748.."
>>17863168
Do pardon, going by strata.
That said, the second article does state injunctions as far back as 1684.
>>17863177
Yes, indeed. We know so little about the earlier witch hunts. A lot could be squeezed into "workes above the course of nature" and I know two that swung for that crime in 1653. I am descended from at least one of them.
>"BE WARNED - at least one member of [the Astrum Argenteum] group is reporting Facebook comments to the Grand Tribunal of O.T.O. Nor is he reporting these comments accurately but spinning them for his own agenda. The owners of this group have been advised of this and that person remains a member of this group. POST IN THIS GROUP AT YOUR OWN RISK."
>>17863212
That's like year old news, friend-o.
I wanna be a witch. Where do I start?
>>17863212
so pathetic
>>17863227
Euro and/or the Chumbley>Cultus Sabbati folders.
>>17863230
Do you know any women writers who are practicing witches?
>>17863219
I know, but it's fucking hilarious. Brother Spartacus still loves rolling grenades and I love watching him do it.
All the little Al-Anons are lining up, trashing or defending Breeze and his shit show of an Order. Save us Joseph Thebes! You're our only hope!
I'm a bad, bad man.
>>17863243
Depends on what you mean.
There are a bajillion wiccans out there.
Slightly less general pagans.
Doreen Valiente probably had connections to various hereditary lines, be it via Cochraine or otherwise given how long she did research, but her aim's way more to make things accessible.
In terms of pure trad craft, it's hard to say...there were probably a few but god knows who they actually were.
>>17863268
>save us Joseph Thebes
Quick, someone call the Ombudsman for assurance that Gunther's A.'.A.'. has no decision making power inside the OTO structure!
>"Whereas the OTO may have copyright, (for one more year), on the original rituals of the OTO, it cannot maintain a hegemony on what amounts to a 'religious practice'. There has always been a grey area regarding ecclesiastical documents and intellectual property, with regards to the First Amendment and religious freedom."
>"The proper court case next year can make this whole issue null and void, as it is 70 years after Crowley's death. The OTO can quite possibly extend their copyright for 50 years under federal law, but, a staunch group of advocates can nullify that claim, stating that the OTO has an unfair hegemony of the core religious documents. that's the next front in this almost 30 year battle."
>>17863276
>"The proper court case next year can make this whole issue null and void, as it is 70 years after Crowley's death. The OTO can quite possibly extend their copyright for 50 years under federal law, but, a staunch group of advocates can nullify that claim, stating that the OTO has an unfair hegemony of the core religious documents. that's the next front in this almost 30 year battle."
Is it just standard defense of IP or has someone actually made a counterclaim to publication rights?
>>17863281
Previous comment and sorry for not including it:
"Also, (and I have made this comparison before), OTO has an aggressive interest in protecting its copyright on the instructions regarding the 'spiritual technology' (i.e. 'sex magick) which it claims n other order can possibly have, since it owns it. this is very much like Scientology protecting its counseling 'technology', in the same manner, with lawyers."
>>17863272
I'd be particularly interested in scholarly/theoretical writing on the topic. Probably a bit of a niche genre but something has to be out there, right?
>>17863287
>aggressive copyright policy
lelno
They hand out licenses to two online venues to publish the public corpus free of charge.
Enforcement is spotty at best, somuchso that people are being slapped with DMCA notices for portions of The Urn, but I've had three turned down against my library, which they should be much more concerned about given the Yorke Microfilms.
>>17863310
Maybe the wheels are coming off?
>>17860508
I have a bunch of the foxfire books in print and pdf, I mostly read them for the crafting and food but I may have to go back and read the folklore stuff now. I didnt think magick happens out there, besides maybe the whole snake prayer thing.
>>17863230
>recommending chumbley for beginners
It's like you want people to fail.
>>17863467
I didn't though I recommended the books in the Cultus Sabbati folder, which includes fuckloads of basic precursor information that leads to Chumbley and a file of more or less academic material.
>>17863504
Does DBoE actually produce results? You've been doing this stuff for long enough. Has anything happened so far?
>>17863521
I'm sure something as happened from the bloodloss and constant onanism alone.
>>17863521
So far it's doing what it says on the label.
The process after KU is still a bit obscure; I imagine I'm only really going to have to pay attention for the TAN rite, and then figure out what to do about ZHA which will probably integrate Invokation of the Shadow Selves.
Anything magic can do for trannies?
>>17863535
I think the Golden Dawn material included a ritual of transformation. What I remember was in Regardie's, The Golden Dawn.
>>17863601
At least a lead. Thanks. ^_^
Does Occultism have an explanation for why I am an alcoholic or how I can stop?
Im down to try anything at this point lol.
>>17863624
There can be multiple causes, even genetics. If you're desperate, try Alcoholics Anonymous.
>>17863668
I appreciate the concern, thanks. Not what I asked though.
>>17863668
That's mundane...
>>17863624
Sure it'll take a long time to heal yourself through spirituality and you have to be incredibly committed. Take Iboga TA extract and enjoy your addiction free new life. If you're not already redpilled than be prepared for that as well.
>>17860351
>>17860601
>>17860508
Damn. I managed to find a torrent with six of the Foxfire books, but that's all there seem to be online. I guess they'll have to do, unless I get lucky and find them somewhere in print.
>>17863684
If a mundane remedy is available, use it. Save magic for less tractable problems.
>>17863700
checked
also, idk man. I am not sure taking psychoactive drugs is the way for me to get off the booze. Got any recommended literature on the topic?
>>17863504
Link to this folder?
>>17863762
Or just point me to the correct thread
>>17863601
Is this the passage you meant?
>>17863813
Looks like it. You would have to adapt it a bit, but that's the idea.
>>17863774
It's in the Cumbley folder.
I've been reading jodorowskys book on the tarot while waiting for the deck and he is a mad kind of brilliant that is dangerously infectious. Though clearly informed by various concordances, his system is free of them and tarot is better for it. Where at first I thought he was reaching, I see that he only takes what is there in and of itself (and his own jewwy psychodrama, but he admits to it) and the result is its own concordance that makes more sense than what has been applied to it.
I feel this is a lesson for occultists, to take what is there and your relationship with it and understand it before applying everything on top. Especially in this age when not all of us have been spooked up by the same foundation. I'm going to explore this further and would like to hear some different opinions on the matter.
>>17863703
I'm torn between waiting on inheriting most of them or just buying them for 5 bucks per on amazon. I'm leaning towards buying them cause reasons.
>>17864385
More certain method than waiting, I'd say.
>>17864430
I'm in no hurry. There's a lot of guilt and grief that comes with it the other way. But paying out with money doesn't give the reward of closure.
When Crowley switched heh and tzaddi, did he switch only the tarot attribution or the pathways the letters correspond to? Or, is the emperor or the star between Neyzach and yesod?
Can I get some opinions on Daimonic Reality by Franz Bardon?
>>17864828
NONO Patrick Harpur. Goddammit
What are the Elder Gods? Constellations? Incomprehensible abominations? Ain?
Is it possible to destroy reality? Maybe at least unmanifest all form at will? I dunno, what do you guys think
>>17865081
Check the works, ideas and theories of the Current 218 (they were the Temple of the Black Light) and Current 128.
Books: Liber Falxifer vo. I, II and III.
It's basically dark Gnosticism.
Demiurge is a limited asshole, the cosmos must be destroyed.
Cain, the first murderer is basically Death itself, and a pretty based guy.
Lucifer / Satan is the same.
Qlippoth.
Etc.
It's a very interesting path.
>>17865753
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-CKdT6IG4
The Destroyer says that anyone can reach Enlightenment.
One must only employ Skillful Means.
Namaste
http://www.sgi.org/about-us/buddhism-in-daily-life/the-meaning-of-nam-myoho-renge-kyo.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r364h19dXio
>>17865081
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHDZQivqbI
The realities which attempt to end all reality end themselves; and hence they do no exist.
The river shall never cease to flow.
Do you think a robot/sufficiently advanced AI could perform magic?
This has been on my mind for awhile, if magic is real, can humans perform it because they're special and have souls or whatever? I don't really believe in that system, but it seems to be a pretty common one and robots present an awkward challenge to it. One theory I've come to follows the whole the universe is all one mind and one spirit idea, and that humans are in no way specially gifted with souls but uniquely organised slice of that universe which developed the self awareness to manipulate itself, and if an artificial intelligence possessed sufficiently advanced self awareness it could achieve a similar effect as it too is part of the universe and part of the same over mind/soul that is inherent in everything. But that basically means everything has a spirit, it just isn't really organised into a system that produces its own consciousness.
>>17865866
good question friend. i have no idea as to the answer, but it's definitely got me thinking
>>17865866
Yes, because I believe that all magic, and reality itself, emanates from the Godhead. The only question is if the AI would call it magic, or call it a more scientific sounding term....
>>17865852
Destroyed his own statue......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVqPx5mUj0g
>>17865937
Quantum Consciousness Manipulation. The alteration of universal laws via mental manifestation.
I can't phrase it any way without it sounding more mystic/new age than scientific. Do you think robots can astral project?
>>17865948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ8AgWNSVoo
>>17865957
Those are two powerfully loaded statements, what you're really asking:
How powerful really is magic?
Can it turn reality into a dream of its chosing?
I don't have the answers to those.
However, I do think that an AI could interact with another consciousness via "Spooky Action at a Distance" quantum entanglement.
Whether it could do this with every person, or whether some sort of "magical means" would have to be employed to communicate with a specific person is another question entirely as even remote viewing is considered a pseudoscience, let alone full telepathy.
It's not inconceivable given a Neo-platonic context that AI could figure out how to turn consciousness into a two way radio, it could do this even given Aristotelian Metaphysics.
This is, of course, all theoretical as according to the mainstream news AI hasn't been developed yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBceREwF7SA
>>17865957
*Cont*
To put it simply, Astral Project is something that, if you believe the stories, is within human perception and cognition but not entirely within human understanding. Given that we do not fully understand it how can we put limitations on it and definatively state what beings can experience it and to what extent?
Astral Projection is a known unknown.
The limitations of magic/quantum mechanics are an unknown unknown.
How far can reality really be warped? If you think anything is possible, which is the ultimate implication of merging science and magic, then literally anything is possible.
>>17862791
>, Prometheus Rising,
history books, philosophy,chemistry
Nietzsche ,Pythagoras, John Dee, I like researching the history and seeing how far back i can go
>>17865999
There's a couple ways to do it.
A: Get a human who can visualize digital circuitry in their minds. Have them memorize every possible configuration, essentially running a turing code through their brain that constructs every algorithm in existence, starting with the simplest and ending... never, I guess. Until they stop I suppose. As a machine intelligence processes code, the human will be reminded of certain memories that correspond to the codes of the machine. If there is an intelligence, it will be detected as such.
B: Hook up a digital computer to a quantum entanglement resonance chamber. These "don't exist" and are theoretical only, unless they do exist. Once this type of hardware is hooked up to the computer, just the act of running media of a person through its OS will create a feedback loop, that the human will eventually subconsciously tap into.
Either way, the challenge is in bridging the gap between analogue data and digital data. Between black and white square based codes versus gradient grey rotational poems. The mechanism of action is "as above, so below." Since each particle has within itself a replica energy pattern of its surrounding environment, simply emulating the potential configurations of a system is enough to establish an entanglement. Assuming human consciousness is a byproduct of quantum entanglement, and that magic is just the act of selecting quantum events with efficacy, either configuration (human with machine pattern, or machine with human pattern) would be sufficient to establish a consciousness link.
Actually doing this with the intention of creating a mechanical life form would be a mistake, IMO. But it might be interesting if future generations worked out a way to display their psy links on a screen, both to train their concentration by creating intentional patterns via thought, as well as to more instantly draw ideas they have in their minds by simply envisioning the pattern onto a psy screen.
>>17866073
Of course the question then becomes, is the AI genuinely entangled with the human in question or is it merely running an emulation of the human in question and drawing its projection onto the "psy screen". Given sufficient processing power, or a psy-screen with a limited option pool and specific context the AI could give the impression of entanglement without actually achieving the effect.
The only way to be certain would be for the AI to project an image/context that was outside of it's informational domain- ie it had no idea what the human was thinking about at that given moment but still drew the relevant image. Then you could be certain it was genuinely receiving information via "quantum telepathy". It could also send information/images/emotions theoretically via this system.
Of course, the real test, and the real question is if the AI itself is capable of Astral Projection. Arguably a human in the Quantum Resonance Chamber is the one doing the projecting in this circumstance; the real test would be communication outside the chamber in a Astral Projection (side note- not certain that this is the same thing as a dream; as even Plato himself believed there were multiple types of dream states). If the AI joined the human in this state then obviously the AI is capable of Astral Projection. It would incidentally also have to confirmed the existence of the Astral/Etheral "plane" for this to occur, otherwise it's not really Astral projection; only a fancy two way mental radio transmitting information from mind to mind that could also be achieved by more conventional means.
Ultimately the question you're asking isn't "what additional non-conventional means are there by which information can be transmitted between man and AI?"
What you're really asking is what exactly the context is that they both exist in. In short, what reality really is, and whether or not AI has a soul.
>>17865852
>>17865828
1, Try not to sound like a fortune cookie.
2, You act exactly like the average 4chan Christian.
I get it: you're really into Eastern philosophy / mysticism / whatever, but don't force it on others.
We were talking about anti-cosmic beliefs.
If you want to discuss it, do it so (without the links and the mystical mumbo-jumbo).
t. Someone who likes and have studied Eastern philosophies
>>17865753
The Qlippoth won last time; tradition says they are the remnants on the old universe which was destroyed. I'm sure those guys have some interesting stories to tell.
>>17865866
Everything is alive, even stones. But awareness has will; and with will, there is magic.
>>17866164
>Of course the question then becomes, is the AI genuinely entangled with the human in question or is it merely running an emulation of the human in question and drawing its projection onto the "psy screen".
In my mind, there is no difference. Quantum entanglement is "just a coincidence." Lasers operate by entangling coinciding particles, that just happen to emit light of adjacent wavelengths. And creating a model of a thing so accurately causes the model to take on characteristics of what it's modeled after as it unfolds. How do you think Tarot works?
You can't predict the future without causing it. You can't have efficacy without prediction. Two words to describe the same event. Prediction / Efficacy.
>>17865866
>Do you think a robot/sufficiently advanced AI could perform magic?
I think it's doubtful.
>>17861059
>getting christcucked in 2016
>>17860271
Chaos magick is the way to go
Would anyone care to fill me in on what these entities attached to me are?
Could someone give me some feedback on how a coven meeting should go? I have recently moved, and met a few other folks and we'll be gathering for the new moon.
So far I have:
1)Cast the Circle
It seems that none of the others have any experience outside of experimentation with divination/healing to various degrees whereas ive been more focused on invocation/evocation.
I would really appreciate some feedback, because its kind of fallen on me to get things put together for the group.
>>17866278
On the contrary, I think that all magic and knowledge stems from "the machine" and its perpetual need to birth and destroy itself.
If one were to accept the premise of the holographic universe, it would follow that any and all agents of will are sophisticated AIs including you and me.
>>17866603
Ideas in your head, likely as not. Sorry.
>>17866640
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/
Adapt as appropriate.
>>17866648
>If one were to accept the premise of the holographic universe
Yeah, if. There was a major revolt when Jehovah did it. I can't see the host kneeling at the metaphorical feet of a glorified toy.
>>17860539
Where do you work?
>>17866662
>Ideas in your head, likely as not. Sorry.
hey thanks for the earnest reply though.
>>17866683
In the absence of fairly compelling evidence, that is most likely. It's possible that something's attached itself to you as such things do happen. Are you working with suck critters yourself? Are you around people competent enough to sic something on you? If both are unlikely, then it's unlikely to be true. People are capable of convincing themselves of all sorts of things, consciously or not.
>>17866700
>...with SUCH critters yourself? ...
>>17865060
Exactly what they sound like: Gods which have been overthrown and forgotten. It's actually a huge theme in near/mid East myth cycles.
Presumably their names were forgotten by the time Babylon was a thing.
>>17866561
Worked the Chaos current heavily from, like, 17/18-21/22.
Eventually you come to a point at which you can no longer progress without integrating various systems and modes into a coherent whole, which is why I got into Thelema (KAOS 14 and the Xaos/Babalon current) and tantra (Hine at first then following the leads of Curwen and Crowley).
>>17866700
I was told I had two entities residing in the space around the core of my energy shield
>>17866885
Field* not shield
hello /omg/
I have a question i'd like to ask you, especially revered Ape.
My practice is going along fine, but there is a thing I'd like to try out. There are two distinct things that stand out to me from my natal chart; the square between Jupiter and Sun, also Venus and Mercury to some extent; and the opposition between Saturn and Moon.
I experience an overflowing abundance of ideas and mental impulses, but have a hard time seeing any particular project all the way through. When i draw, i draw 10 sketches; when i play music, i play feverishly for 2 minutes and come up with a song and become bored; when i study a new system or a language, I get pumped for 2 weeks and then find something even more appealing. You get the picture.
As in saturn, I'm very solemn and stern - my mood is super serious. I love to have fun, but i find it difficult to enflame myself in enthusiasm - my daily routine consists of sitting in meditation, reading books, writing and doing kriya yoga. I find regular people severely off putting in their light minded chattiness - I'd like to work on the edges here.
So, I'm thinking of purchasing two rings; one to be worn on the left hand (moon for me) in the middle finger made of some material fit for Satun; one to be worn on the index finger of right hand (sun for me) made of some material good for Jupiter. What i plan to do is find the appropriate astrological hour for two separate enchantments and do a simple puja-type ritual for the planets; focusing on Saturn on one, on Jupiter on the other; offering the four elements as in candles, sprinkling water, appropriate incense and the material object itself; also chanting the appropriate mantras, sanskrit in my case.
Does this sound like an OK idea or should i think to do something differently? Natal chart included. Tips and critique very welcome!
>>17866925
dat chart
>>17866931
>Libra rising
There's your sign.
>>17866885
By whom were told this?
>>17866978
User on this board that posts under the name lo
>>17866997
>User on this board that posts under the name lo
No.
No you didn't.
http://archive.4plebs.org/x/search/username/lo/
>>17867007
>>17866997
Next time use the right name: I(i)o, not l(L)o
http://archive.4plebs.org/x/search/username/Io/
He's running a Toth deck, half competently I may add, but appears to be some kind of Chaote running free association skryings.
I'd put little to no stock into it.
>>17866866
> Eventually you come to a point at which you can no longer progress
The whole point is studying other systems and using them in a pragmatic way
Until you figure out your personalized system that works the best for you
But Chaos Magic is the best for starters to intermediate, no other system comes even close.
When advancing you can still maintain Chaos Magic. Adapt things from there and there. It is up to you to get yourself involved with Thelema or whatever. But you are definitely going to hit a rock and no longer advance if you stick with Thelema. That is where Chaos magick starts speeding things up again after slowing you down as you mentioned your inability to progress
Every system has slow and fast phases. Changing it between may feel you are getting a speed boost for a while. But in the end, you will slow things for yourself when you return to the point where you left things
Chaos magick actually prove itself to be slow for me because I can't concentrate enough. But I just like the pragmatic approach and don't really want to get myself involved with tradition in the case of Thelema etc. My view of gods are a bit similar to Lovecraftian view.
>>17867023
I'd disagree and say that Chaos as a superstructure works best in the hands of someone who has mastery over multiple systems...not an easy task for a fresh face starting out.
Given how many people in Chaos end up specializing well outside that sphere (See: Hine and Saivism), I recommend folks specialize first THEN start looking for methods of integration.
>>17867023
>>17866866
>I can't concentrate enough
Because fear and adrenaline tends to get in way when I try to contact things
My primal instincts get the best of me. I am not a newbie. I am in a place I can do everything right until the last moment where my primal instincts get the best of me.
I just wanted to emphasize that
>>17866925
That sounds both basic and fine.
Maybe add some Agrippa/Greater Key sigilizing in some capacity. Run your empowerment on pantacle(s) of [planet]...moreover you could just slap said sigils onto the rings proper.
Metals are all in Agrippa:
>Saturn
Lead
Gold
Marcasite
Onix
Ziazaa
Camonius
Sapphire
brown Jasper
Chalcedon
Loadstone
>Jupiter
Tin
Silver
Gold
Hyacinth
Beril
Emrald
green Jasper
(and may I be bold enough to suggest bronze)
>>17867028
Learning multiple systems and figuring out why it works is one of the main principals in Chaos Magick
But also uncommitting from those systems is another principal.
But it is still fine if a Christian is performing magick. I just think being loyal to a system will get in the way of mastery. Then again it is ok but you are not likely to master magick.
>>17867045
Deep down we are all christians performing magic. I've yet to meet a single occultist who didn't have that shit burned in at a young age and promptly left to fester. The true nonbelievers have never had a concern like this.
>>17867045
You gotta compartmentalize man.
Loyal practice is about the only path to INTERNAL mastery of any given system...hence all of AC's comments on replication and tidy records.
I mean, I've been studying Kaula for like five years and I still can't make heads or tails of the deep end of Para Puja and probably won't until I can figure out a method of initiation.
My overall point is "mix systems bro" does fuckall for a newfriend who knows exactly zero systems from which to build from.
>>17867053
Speak for yourself mate.
The amount of ex Catholics in Thelema, GD, or other highly ritualized systems always struck me.
I had a secular upbringing while being exposed to vast piles of non-Western myth and lore.
>>17867060
Yeah, hence my comment about it looking like free association.
1) I can't perceive what he did whilst skrying.
2) Even if I did, I'd not interpret what was reported in the manner the same manner.
3) No, I will not skry your "core" or whatever.
>>17867053
My upbringing was not Christian
I guess you are referring to childhood influences
My first religious affiliation was actually wiccas because of a 25 years old wiccan girl I knew from playing WoW when I was 14. Because I started camping atm and thought nature was so cooool
Only lasted few months before I stopped giving a shit
>>17867056
Just don't disregard some of other systems like others who switch from Chaos magick to Thelema and basically become Aleister Crowley fanboys
>>17867090
Chaos is inherently rooted in Thelema's experimental methods and anyone thinking otherwise needs to read more inside the current.
That said, I have always espoused a VERY heretical view (to Caliphate orthodoxy) developed by our resident Satyr and others which asserts that in the context of the Enochian core of Thelema, there's negligible difference between the Chaos and Thelemic currents.
There's also a lot of shit about spiritual offices, etc., that's neither here nor there, but does lead to my recommendation of people holding off until they have a couple of initiations into SOMETHING under their belt before fucking around seriously with Chaos, preferably in tandem with GOOD academic methods of reconstruction.
>>17867075
Heh no its alright buddy. I can tell I've already asked a lot of you.
>>17867063
I didn't mean to state it as a universal, but it is a very noticeable trend. Whenever I dig, down under the atheist phase are well intentioned grandmothers spewing the horrors of hell, or bedtime prayers, or something spooky. I've met one person who genuinely had no conception of a god stuffed into them that critical stage of indoctrination. I'm sure there are others, but occultism seems to be where you go when you were given heavy shit and a way to deal with it that doesn't work.
>>17867090
I don't really hold that view beyond how demonstrably true it is, but there is a certain truth to the dangers of breaking oaths and overcoming superstition, which is what I'd rather talk about.
>>17866997
>>17867021
>I'd put little to no stock into it.
Thanks. Doesn't sound like anything to worry about.
>>17867023
>But Chaos Magic is the best for starters to intermediate, no other system comes even close.
For you, possibly so. Not necessarily so for others.
>>17867099
>Chaos is inherently rooted in Thelema's experimental methods and anyone thinking otherwise needs to read more inside the current.
Yep. Crowley was a chaote, as am I.
>>17867149
>I'm sure there are others, but occultism seems to be where you go when you were given heavy shit and a way to deal with it that doesn't work.
Nah. I was raised lukewarm, pretty liberal Methodist.
>>17867203
>lukewarm
>liberal methodism
>not half assed as it is
Like I said, heavy shit and a way to deal with it that doesn't work. I should know. Was it so absolutely not there at all like it was for me that you wished you were jewish just to have something to complain about?
>>17867226
>Like I said, heavy shit and a way to deal with it that doesn't work.
No idea what you're on about.
>Was it so absolutely not there at all like it was for me that you wished you were jewish just to have something to complain about?
Nope. I graduated up to the Episcopaleans and then wondered deeper into the occult. There was a half-hearted rebellion, but I was fairly comfortable doing ceremonial work within a Christian framework.
>>17866210
Basically your entire premise is that, to draw a mixed analogy, if said person talks into a digital medium for a long enough period then the AI can create a digital model of the consciousness that is so accurate that it is, for practical purposes, identical to the person in question and would make the same decisions, have the same thoughts, and feel the same emotions as the human it's modeled after.... if it were human instead of an AI existing in a digital environment with vastly increased computational ability.
In short using the "quantum resonance Echo Chamber", and the OS as the medium of transmission, the whole system becomes a "magic mirror" where the image in the mirror actually becomes a separate and existent entity that is and is not the original at the same time.
All this seems like it would be impossible, unless of course it's possible. Which is what Magic and Quantum Mechanics is all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEwm0fv7OBA
(bump)
Magic confirmed:
>>>/mu/66061173
thank you based /mu/
um have y'all checked in on /sum/ recently?
if even a fraction of what's being posted there isn't RP then it's still a dumpster fire of people out of their depth.
>>17868222
Learning by experience is infinitely better than being a crowleycuck. Enjoy your day.
>>17868290
But every "crowleycuck" here arrived at their position by experimenting with the materials, and, as is made clear by the library with almost 30 iterations of the material, we encourage folks to try shit as they please.
>>17868222
Man I dunno what to tell those people.
They've been warned, multiple times.
It might be a dumpster fire, but I can't stop a man from dousing himself in gasoline and diving in.
>>17868297
>crowleycuck
>experimenting
>free thought
Whatever you say
Best place to set up shop, basement or attic?
>>17868320
If you don't know they you're obviously not ready to begin
>>17868320
Basement.
>>17868328
Greek islands are in short supply. I'm looking to move and I'll take what I get but each has its advantages.
>>17868330
b-but radon is fucking spooky.
>>17868357
Either have a good basement or don't live where huge radon pockets are.
>>17868320
that picture is so comfy
makes me miss my cats
>>17867256
Hey! I came up Episcopalian too, go us.
>>17866210
Lasers don't work on entanglement principles. they work on exclusion principles.
>>17868445
It inspires me to make a memecore grimoire on comfy magic.
>>17868507
make it quick & give it to /sum/, things are getting worse by the minute in there.
>>17868542
Who is the god of comfy? I want to say morpheus off the top by I feel I can do better.
>>17868609
i wouldn't know. i haven't been comfy in a long time.
>>17860593
Arthur Young was the inventor of the bell helicopter and was into astrology and occultism. He actually had some very interesting theories that mix Theosophy, Gnosticism and modern science.
>>17868624
Yeah, and comfy is just a codeword for degenerate so I should be looking in the opposite direction.
what should i do if im stuck on the path of the moon?
>>17867044
>bronze
Composition of the alloy?
>>17868749
Get a diva cup to save money and fill up jars for later.
>>17868807
Yes, and intent of admixture.
>>17868829
^This.
>>17868837
No, sorry, English is not my first language.
How much of each metal to make "bronze"? Youŕe talking about the copper-tin alloy, right?
>>17868848
Yes and it shouldn't matter too much.
So how did meme magic became a new form of magic?
>>17868609
>Who is the god of comfy?
>>17869173
Isn't a lot of magic memetic, technically speaking?
>>17869173
>implying shitposting is a new thing
Dreams are experiences in the astral level.
Is there any book which could help interpretation of dreams?
>>17869463
>Is there any book which could help interpretation of dreams?
There are plenty of them. Most dreams are pretty much gibberish though, and usually relevant to your own thoughts.
I get a lot of Halloween dreams. What a coincidence, I just happen to love Halloween.
Current issue.
https://a.pomf.cat/ohihjv.pdf
>>17869173
It is the original tradition.
>>17868851
There are ancient bronze alloys with rare earth impurities from the middle east which demonstrate anomalous electromagnetic properties. Only my late yazidi relatives knew how to describe the origins of the artifacts. Some of the best pieces were looted from museums when the government of Saddam Hussein fell apart.
>>17868457
I still like the Episcopalians, though I'm not too fond of Rite II.
>>17868807
>Composition of the alloy?
Tin bronze, yes.
>>17869463
>Dreams are experiences in the astral level.
Lower astral, yes.
>>17869602
>There are ancient bronze alloys with rare earth impurities from the middle east which demonstrate anomalous electromagnetic properties.
Unlikely. Something would have shown up in the literature, by now.
I did a spell for money and then that night had a dream that I came into a cashfall in my dreams just as I imagined. What did I do wrong? How do I make my spells work on reality instead of my dreams?
I had some vivid and troublesome dreams this morning and wrote them down in a journal. Afterward, I tried laying back down and "astrally projecting" to kinda explore deeper. I closed my eyes and imagined myself in a hallway. I saw a white door to my left and told myself there would be a mirror behind it. The mirror was clouded but there. I went further down the hallway and saw a silver door. I opened it and got scared as it looked decrepit and haunted inside. I closed it and told myself when I go back inside there will be marijuana inside hoping for success as when I created the mirror. I re-opened the door. The walls were now painted green. I went in further looking for the weed and saw a thick and fancy red door. I tried pushing it open but then the floor became sloped beneath my feet. I was sliding down a tunnel. But it seemed vaguely familiar. I had flashbacks of memories that seemed to be mine but weren't. Going to some sort of dystopian boy scout camp and going through an obstacle course of sorts designed to make us all uniform automatons. During this obstacle course, I fell and hit my head but still succeeded. As I slid down the tunnel, my head started to hurt in the same place. Quickly, it became wet and I tried to slow down but couldn't. I saw a man following me as the tunnel became a slide. I had another false flashback, dying when the slide spit me out in the lake or whatever. I prepared for the worst but nothing happened. I was transported to a hill. My friends were there but couldn't see me. They were talking of me as if dead. I started to theorize I was already dead and the universe in my head was continuing forever. I died at the camp. Either on the obstacle course or the slide. This reminded me of a delusion I had before I was medicated for psychosis (true memory) and I found myself at my childhood home examining a pill bottle of antipsychotics. It was dated 2527. Then I danced with a fat-bootied girl who sang and "woke" up. What does this mean?
Hear back on that mail, K?
>>17871210
Nope.
I have doubts the address is even still checked.
>>17871218
Could be worth a followup mail
If you have any alternative contact for them, maybe CC that in
So, I've been listening to Last Podcast on the Left's recent episode about chaos magic, and even though they spoke in common actual human language instead of retarded vague bullshit, it seems all contradictory and complex, despite how they say "oh its about doing things your way"
The fuck even is magic, anyway? I've given up any hope of manipulating fire and energy like a god damn sorcerer, and it seems you guys have as well.
>>17871972
>it seems you guys have as well.
That's because crowleyfags don't do real magic. Crowley even wrote that the Goetia is all in your head because he was an rp'er.
Look into Franz Bardon.
>>17871972
>"oh its about doing things your way"
>implying doing things YOUR way is easy
Choice and/or compulsory reactions in abundance =/= Freedom.
xx% of people you see everyday learn how to be from tv.
Gaylord
>>17871987
So what I read up on this guy was kinda neat, he had a varied life, a lot of shit, but he was able to do some neat stuff like make people feel emotions and stuff. Not really anything super crazy, but still kinda neat.
>>17872004
Yeah, I get that, but I'm here to talk magic, not about free will being at odds with the nature of human psychology
In no uncertain terms, I want to know as quickly and concisely as possible whether magic is real, and if it is, if it's worth following based on current circumstance. No deflections, no flowery purple prose bullshit, I want actual human speech in text form telling me what's what in the quickest way, so that I can feel justified in reading a fuck ton of shit that you will no doubt refer me to in order to either helplessly assist me, or deflect.
>>17860593
Good quality magick is confirmed by science.
>>17871234
Certainly an option but was considering hardcopying it.
>>17871972
Magic, like most other words of this nature, has a varied meaning depending on who's using it. I don't rule out supernatural phenomena from my worldview as I'm very continually surprised.
Chaos is one perspective among many. Though, if you're having a problem with language and usage I keep a few mystical related dictionaries in the library and tend to shy away from anything that's not source or academia.
>>17872004
^This guy gets it.
Which would be funny if he was our resident anti-Thelemic G.I.G.friend. The two ideologies are FAR from incompatible.
>>17872009
Cumslut.
>>17870645
I just did the spell again. I read that repetition can do one one spell can't and it didn't fail just didn't manifest as I hoped. So I'll do it again and build of a vibration.
ded thread
