*New* Helpful Links : http://pastebin.com/UdmipND6
Welcome to the 70s to early 90s Computer Gaming General. We talk about games and the hardware they were made for, either micro, mini or mainframe computers, desktop, tower or all in keyboard package, from Japan, the US, Europe, or anywhere, if the platform came out before 1995.
Don't hesitate to share tips, your past (or present) experiences, your new machines, your already existing collection, emulation & hardware advises, as well as shots, ads & flyers, videos, interviews, musics, photos, that kind of stuff.
Allowed : Computers made from the 70s to Windows 3.x and their games (of course), peripherals for these computers from any time period (MIDI expanders included)
Tolerated : Unknown, unsupported or not really popular post-95 stuff (BeOS, old Linux, stuff like this), baka gajin Western computers
Not allowed : Late 90s games and computers, Pentium PCs or more, PPC Macs and up, Windows 95 and later
Discouraged: Europe vs America shitposting, boring, long-winded technical discussions like the last thread (unless it's technical discussions about the X68000, PC-8801, etc)
IRC Channel : #/g/retro @ irc.rizon.net
Random music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny_YeviBR60
Random gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDuHveP0lY
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NXEfVGg.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
> Europe vs America shitposting, boring, long-winded technical discussions like the last thread
Yes please, last thread was a pile of crap.
Recommend me good rpgs
>>3304759
>baka gajin Western computers
Look like OP forgot to remove that shit.
>(unless it's technical discussions about the X68000, PC-8801, etc)
And that one too.
>>3304762
What have you already played? I'm no expert on that subject, but you might as well try the classic falcom games on MSX (Xanadu, the Ys series) as well as the Micro Cabin ones (the Xak series). Most of these might have translations or are already in english. Of course there classics like the Wizardry series on Apple II and PC or the Ultima series on Apple II and Commodore 64 (I've read somewhere that the PC version of the early Ultima episodes aren't that good compared to the other versions though). On Amiga, there are dungeon crawlers like Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder and Captive (gotta love the title tune of that one), as well as the Moon series (and a few Ultima episodes too).
>>3304936
I meant to remove those but I forgot. I copypasted the thread text into Notepad and edited it, but then I wasn't paying attention and copypasted the original one from the Foolz archive.
>>3304936
>I've read somewhere that the PC version of the early Ultima episodes aren't that good compared to the other versions though
They're CGA/PC speaker stuff. Not worse than the Apple II, but since they've all been remastered for better hardware, there's no reason to play those now.
Also U2/3 do absolutely no speed throttling and will be too fast on anything but an 8086, so on DOSBox you'll need to lower cycles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoLx_he6UIQ
This is patched for EGA btw so not what the game would have originally looked like.
>>3304946
As one other note, U2/3 are designed for DOS 1.x so they don't support saving your game progress to a subdirectory.
>>3304936
Thanks, i have actually played only a dew Ultimas. I need to checkout Wizardry series.
If you want to play the classic Ultimas (up to VI), the Amiga ports are the best ones.
>>3305301
IIcs were sold in huge numbers and aren't particularly valuable, no.
>>3304942
Nuke the thread while its still fresh.
We will start over in no time
>>3305471
Well it would be a waste imo, it started out pretty good. All we'll have to do is remind at the end of this thread to remove these stains, that's it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Radio-Shack-TRS-80-Model-III-Micro-Computer-System-48K-Working-/322155848128?hash=item4b01fc21c0:g:mNUAAOSwvg9XZINQ
"This is before my time, I don’t know how to test all functions of this computer, nor do I have any disks to test other than a (blank ?) disk that was in the drive when I acquired this. This computer turns on, both disk drives turn, and may or may not work perfectly"
Take the disk out and go into BASIC, you baka.
Seriously?
>>3305471
Too bad moot killed thread self-deletions thanks to starcraft shitposters on /vg/ a long time ago.
>>3305713
You can delete posts, just not after they've been up 10 minutes.
>>3305713
Nononono. It had to do with some stuff that happened on /sp/ in 2012 or somewhere back then. OPs of game threads were deleting them on purpose in the middle of an NFL playoff match or whatever and then accusing the janitors of doing it.
I know because I used to do it myself. :^)
>>3305860
Pots within a thread. Threads themselves not at all.
>>3305713
Oh well, maybe Hiro will give us back thread deletions.
3 MSX (2 Turbo-R models and a 2+ one), all equiped with an MSX Music chipset, playing Cosmic air way, the theme of the C level in Darius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adOr76TzHL0
>>3305590
>>3308558
>>3308567
>>3308572
Can we add eBay whining to the discouraged list next time? It's getting annoying.
>>3308639
Lol. I just want more vintage computer discussion, not complaining about prices.
>>3304946
>but since they've all been remastered for better hardware, there's no reason to play those now.
Huh? I don't play old games because of fancy graphics. The only thing a remake can do for me is if they have new scenarios or something else gameplay related.
>>3309167
Sometimes games can also look better on inferior hardware too. The Sanyo MBC-55 version of Time Bandit looks quite nice and colorful compared to the Amiga and Atari ST version for example.
Hey the Coleco Adam version of Dragon's Lair looks pretty neat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSinFyg6Y5Q
The animations looks great imo.
"An article in the November 1983 InfoWorld Magazine stated that as many as 30% of all Commodore 64s sold were being returned to their place of purchase by disgruntled customers, versus the industry average 2-5% return rate. Despite continued rumors of Commodore having shoddy reliability/quality control, the company denied this, arguing that all major technical issues with the C64 had been fixed earlier in the year and most of these returns were 'due to customers who simply didn't understand how to connect and set their machines up.'"
It does give pause for thought when one considers that Commodore sold computers anywhere and everywhere, including major department stores like Sears and K-Mart, Toys'R'Us, and college bookstores whereas Apple (to cite one example) sold only through authorized retailers which probably reduced the amount of tech illiterates buying computers just because it was the cool thing to do at that time. The early 1980s personal computer boom did end up attracting a lot of novices which was unfortunate at a time when computers were still too primitive and difficult to use for non-geeks.
>>3310549
but C64 ICs tend to literally self-destruct
>>3310597
Not sure if it was that and not mostly the shitty black brick PSUs failing and taking out the machine with it.
>>3310597
The VIC-II and SID do tend to get rather toasty; early models had a ceramic VIC-II for better thermal control, but this was changed to plastic on the Rev B boards. Officially, the RF shield was supposed to act as a heat sink, but not all C64 boards had it and many PAL machines had aluminized cardboard instead of a metal RF shield, which provided very little heat dissipation.
>>3310723
C64Cs are more reliable than the old breadbox due to fewer ICs and adoption of the newer HMOS process instead of NMOS. However, this is a bit of a problem for American retro computer collectors as the vast majority of NTSC Commodore 64s were the breadbox model and sales here started tapering off after 1986. The C64Cs are very common in Europe, not that common in the US.
>>3310604
The brick PSU is a horrible piece of shit, although the RAM is the most common victim since those are CMOS rather than NMOS and have higher transistor density. While the VIC/SID/6510/6522 can handle some overvoltage, 4164 DRAMs cannot take even a little bit above +5V.
>>3310728
That kind of proves Americans' tendency to move onto the next big thing quicker than Europe. The C64 continued selling strongly in PAL regions even as late as 1991-92 and was still profitable for Commodore. In fact it was ultimately retired not for lack of sales, but actually because the price of the 1541 drives was climbing, most likely due to scale of economics. It seems likely that Commodore's main supplier, Alps Electronics, decided to hike prices since there can't have been too much demand left for single sided 5.25" drive mechanisms by the early 90s and so they had to start charging more for them to keep their operation profitable.
>>3310758
Anyway, the established C64 user base in North America was big enough to keep it supported by software until the end of the 80s (Microprose stated in 1987 that their primary focus was on the C64, Amiga, and PC compatibles), but not a lot of new machines were still being sold here by 1987-88 and pretty much everyone with a C64 had bought theirs in 83-85. In the late 80s, the NES grabbed a lot of the gaming market on one side and then the PC/Amiga on the other side. In fact, the NES was sometimes referred to as "the last great hurrah of 8-bit hardware".
>>3310017
Holy shit, yeah! That's the rom I found at the flea in Oakland. Never seen that screen. I was never able to get anywhere in it, glad to see others using it!
>>3310828
The pic isn't from the game though, it's an TMS9918-like reproduction of an Iczer-1 fanart that was done on PC-8801. As the MSX1 and the Coleco Adam use the same video chip, well you know the rest.
But anyway, this game being a Dragon"s lair port yeah it must be pretty hard, but man it sure does look great!
>>3310728
>However, this is a bit of a problem for American retro computer collectors as the vast majority of NTSC Commodore 64s were the breadbox model and sales here started tapering off after 1986. The C64Cs are very common in Europe, not that common in the US.
No but C128s are pretty easy to find and they have the newer chipset in them.
>>3310964
The original fanart, from the MMK Anime collection 4 artdisk.
>>3310742
Yeah it does seem that bad power bricks are the main cause of RAM failures in a C64.
I have a question -- which old computers (that stay within the realm of this thread obviously) do you guys actually own, and which ones are you planning to get one of these days?
Is this worth picking at around 70$
it is a 286 with 1mb ram and 40mb hard drive
and its fully functinoal
monitor,keyboard and mouse all included
>>3314314
If you do buy it, check that the motherboard doesn't have one of those blue barrel batteries. If so, remove that infernal thing before it leaks.
>>3314314
Get a Gotek or HxC floppy emulator for easier file transfer.
>>3314341
Well he's not getting any files from a modern PC onto that thing if all it has is a 5.25" drive.
>>3314343
Ah, I didn't stop to think about that. My bad.
>>3314314
$70 seems too high for that. I had gotten a 386 from a flea market back in 2002 for $25.
>>3314356
>15 years ago
Yeah, the price of things remains static, amirite?
>>3314370
Wha...you think a 286 PC is more valuable/useful than it was in 2002? I'm sure it's as much deprecated, obsolete junk as it was then.
>>3314371
>If he's got a 40mb drive, it must already have some softwares on it, so maybe a terminal one or the DOS interlink
AFAIK Interlink was a DOS 6.x utility. If that's a 286 PC it probably has DOS 3.x on the hard disk and no Interlink.
The one other thing that I don't like about 286 PCs is that most of them don't have a BIOS setup program in the system ROMs, it's usually on a boot floppy. This is of course system-specific and you will need the correct one for your machine. There's a huge fuckton of different 286 PCs and it's quite unlikely you can find the setup program you need online unless it's an IBM AT. Even if you had it, you'd still need a way to copy it to a 5.25" floppy.
>>3314336
>>3314341
>>3314343
>>3314352
I have a pentium 2 with windows 95 can make file diskette put into 386 I have with both bigger and smaller disketts and can trasnfer from smaller to bigger ones and then into the pc
>>3314356
He I also get a working cga/ega monitor with keyboard if the keyboard will be mechanical I will surely go for it ,but ask again is it really worth it ??
>>3314408
I already have a fully working 386 with both small and big diskette driver so can copy on that
>>3314435
But can you even find the BIOS setup program for that motherboard? Again, there's so many 286 PCs and BIOS versions that it may be almost impossible to find it unless it's an IBM AT or maybe a Compaq setup program.
>>3314356
Cool, do you still have it?
>>3314446
Perhaps if he asks on VCFED someone could help him.
Plus/4 -- what can /vr/ tell me about it?
>>3314960
It's a fucked up half breed of a VIC-20 and a Commodore 64 that has a video chip that dies if you look at it the wrong way.
DOA in the US, but was kind of popular in some parts of Europe for a while.
>>3314965
The BASIC in the Plus/4 revived some of the disk commands from PET BASIC, though not all of them. There was one magazine reviewer who posted a lengthy rant on y u no RANDOM# command (this being used for relative file access). They did however revive the BACKUP command which was completely useless on a 1541 drive.
>>3314960
TED is dead, Jim.
>>3314960
Only bother with that thing if you're European and you heat sink the TED and CPU immediately. I'm not kidding.
>>3314960
I saw one in a flea market in its original box. They're kind of cool, but oh so useless and also so fragile you'd be afraid to turn it on.
>>3314435
>>3314426
>I already have a fully working 386 with both small and big diskette driver so can copy on that
Well, look like the potential problem is solved. If the computer you're asking for wasn't that expensive (70$ for an old PC clone that doesn't even have a well known brand is too much imo), I'd be telling you have fun with it.
>>3314446
If it uses some well known BIOS like American Megatrend, Award or Phoenix, there are still chances that he might be able to find it. Also, there are also chances that there's no need for all of that and that there are dipswitches on the motherboard for the setup(though you'll need the instructions to know what to do with them).
>>3314960
>Japanese Commodore Plus/4
lel they still tried to sell their computers to the Japanese after jewing them with the MAX, and still expected people to buy them? Even though the VIC-20 was a huge success there releasing a mangled unfinished Commodore 64 with a keyboard worse than the VIC-20's ruined all their credibility on the Japanese market.
>>3315078
Imagine if they released the real C64 in Japan.
We could've had some actually good games.
>>3315097
There ARE actual good games on the C64.
>>3315103
>inb4 computers.png
>>3315078
They never sold the Plus/4 in Japan and that's not kana characters on the keyboard; the image quality just sucks and makes it looks like them.
>>3315078
>Also, there are also chances that there's no need for all of that and that there are dipswitches on the motherboard for the setup(though you'll need the instructions to know what to do with them)
286 boards never have DIP switches for the BIOS; that's an 8086 thing.
>>3315078
it also includes a cga/ega monitor and those are also very rare ,im gonna go see e it and IF the keyboard will ne mechanical i might buy it,the seller said it has a loud harddrive, that it sound like a helicopter when starting
>>3315183
no I need /vr/ to tell me wat to do
Hi, /vr/. I've got a Redstone Apple II clone and it has problems. I can get it running fine from a cold start, but after a minute or so the keyboard craps out and the screen freezes. If I power cycle it, it generally freezes up and puts a few random characters on the screen. Obviously something is warming up and becoming faulty. I don't think it's the ICs as I've done a full substitution and with no improvement Any ideas?
Anyone come across this before? Sockets? Power supply?
>>3316138
I'd take a peek inside the PSU or replace it if you have another.
>>3316138
Bad sockets, traces, IDK.
>>3314314
I always found 286s to be pretty much useless. They can't run the really old games like Digger due to hardware incompatibilities, they're too slow/gimped to run Windows or most VGA games decently, and they can't run 32-bit games at all.
>>3316735
They're perfect for games like Silpheed and other late 80s titles.
>>3317024
But you can just run those on a 386/486/Pentium anyway.
some 80s porn
>>3317062
Most PCs up to the Windows 95 era can run stuff going back to the late 80s without a problem so there's no need for an actual 286 PC to run those games..
>>3317062
Some might have speed-sensitive routines that make some features unavailable on faster machine. For exemple, I can't get the MIDI to work without speeding down my 486 (internal cache disabling and all that stuff) when I try to play PM2.
>>3317084
That's exactly what he said m8.
>>3317075
I'd get one of these monochrome monitors for my CPC 6128 one of these days, I bet that they're pretty damn nice for high-res adventure and detective games, or even CP/M stuff.
>>3317092
I had a Pentium 133Mhz and it rarely choked on late 80s games. Once in a while something's too fast and you'd have to turn the turbo off (it had a turbo option but in the BIOS setup, not with a button on the front).
>>3317098
Yup, many run just fine, but there are still some that truly require a 286 or else you'll have to slow down your CPU with various means (turbo buttons like you said, or internal cache disabling), thus making the 286 not that useless
>>3317110
I don't know of anything that explicitly needs a 286 to run. There are games that require a real 8088+CGA combo to run, but after 1985 games were mostly designed to run on a wide variety of hardware.
Best solution for games from the 86-90 period is a 386SX box as those have a 16-bit data bus and run slower than a full-up 32-bit motherboard and also are easier to set up and run (no BIOS boot floppy, all of them have VGA and proper protected mode support, etc).
I honestly don't understand why the C64 didn't have a built-in machine code monitor/assembler like the Apple II.
Is it possible to hack the kernal/BASIC rom and integrate one in there?
>>3317263
The VIC-20 and C64 dropped the built-in ROM monitor from the PET for cost reasons (revived on the Plus/4 and C128). You can get a disk/tape/cartridge monitor for them.
>>3315235
That's one spooky game cover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTn3gCHLQkQ
That boy can't be more alpha -- shutting down haters, collecting pussy, loading programs faster than a ZX Spectrum user could even dream, and being able to play great games.
>>3304759
Zoombinis?
>>3320851
Stop bumping the thread when it's not even in page 9, /vr/ is a slow board and it take a lot of time for a thread to go down there.
Here are some Amiga crack intros:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDO6fddE3-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhCJy6FBIYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKVbnms1IRY
This is very tenuously related but there really isn't a good place to ask. Can you run early DOS games on FreeDOS installed on a semi-modern (late 90's early 20's) desktop? Will there be timing/graphics issues? I imagine there would be.
>>3323060
Early PC and XT era games will run too fast. Also you'll have to use a soundcard that has DOS drivers.
>>3323081
>Early PC and XT era games will run too fast
And possible graphics incompatibilites.
Is a Vic-20 worth picking up? Local computer recycling place says they might have one
>>3323096
Well it's better being picked than being trashed. Even if you don't know what to do with it, you can still sell or give it to someone who will.
>>3323096
VIC-20s are a fun little computer and have a lot of games although they're all Atari 2600-level. The only problem is you need a memory expander to do anything useful with them.
So hell, get it if it works. You can probably even make a homebrew memory cartridge since the VIC-20 uses SRAM and you can buy those chips new instead of 35 year old 4116 DRAMs.
Memory expanders for the VIC-20 could use either SRAM or DRAM and apparently the huge cartridge PCBs were there to include optional support circuitry for DRAM (as the main system board didn't have any).
>>3323081
>>3323087
Oh well, I own a PC and XT system board but I've never gone about actually fixing either of them. I really don't know where I'd start though. First encounter I had with actually building and working on computers was in the mid-90's so it's a bit before my time. I have some vague concept of how the parts go together working backwards from what I know but I'd probably break something.
>>3323170
PC and an XT* so two different boards
>>3323170
Should probably ask on VCFED. They could help you more than /vr/.
>>3323659
It's a slow board. At least bump it with content, asshat.
>>3323096
So, did you pick it up?
Started collecting hardware with the intention to repair it and get it all working but I simply can't afford it anymore and I also just don't have the time. I think my interest is much more in the software anyway. So intend to just spend my money on a really good CRT and just go the emulator route. I've still collected quite a lot of half-working computers, mostly system boards for PC clones, I've got a 286 (I think), 386, 486, quite a few pentiums and later stuff. I also have a tandy 1000, a TRS-80 model 100 and so on. I'd like to see these go to a good home. Don't really want to make money on it since I've probably barely spent over 200 on everything and I've gotten my enjoyment from them. Where would be the best place to give these away to ensure they wouldn't just be scrapped?
>>3325739
Try to check if there are people into this hobby in your area, by going on forums treating these subjects and the like, and tell them that you're willing to give or sell some of your collection. That's the best way I can think of.
>>3324821
No, apparently it's really deep in storage and the guy who works there won't be able to get it for a few days. I probably will when I hear from him, though.
>>3320323
I've never seen this before. Really cool design.
Can anyone explain how RAM designations work?
http://www.issi.com/US/product-asynchronous-sram.shtml
>x8, x16, x32
What do they mean? Noob question.
>>3328161
It means how many bits per address pin. Oldskool 4116 and 4164 chips were x1, meaning that each address line represents one physical bit on the chip.
x8 means 8 bits per line, so each address line represents one byte. x16 means 16 bits or 64 kilobytes per pin. etc, etc.
>>3328176
For example, the Commodore 64 used the somewhat unusual setup where one bit from each 4164 was used to make a byte. Thus, the first chip held the Bit 0 for the entire memory space, the second chip held the Bit 1, and so forth.
The C64C switched to using 41264 chips which hold 32k of memory so only two are needed. These boards used a slightly different addressing scheme and it is possible to mod breadbin C64s to accept 41264s.
>>3328161
Low capacity DRAMs like the 4164 aren't manufactured anymore and they've all been replaced by SRAMs. Theoretically those chips listed there could be used as RAM replacement in most classic computers if you build a circuit to disable the RAS/CAS line and demux the address/data bus. Of course some architectures like the Commodore 64 it would be really hard to use SRAM.
The 4116 DRAMs are 16kx1 which means each chip physically holds 2 kilobytes of data and has one bit per address line. It took 24 of them to fill up a typical 48k computer of the time like a TRS-80 or an Apple II+.
The IBM XT (on the original 64-256k board) needed a whopping 80 4164 chips to get the full 640k of RAM (32 on the main system board and 48 on an expansion card). Later XTs with the 256-640k board had 4164s for the first 256k of system RAM and the remainder used 41256 chips which hold 32k each, so only 12 were needed for 44 total chips.
Which has worse sound effects and music:
The 48k ZX spectrum or the 8088 IBM PC?
>>3328282
It depends. Stock?
I don't know the the PC programmers did shit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDYInnzV9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRUQr457zkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl8dAVybwq8
If they didn't, then the latter is worse. If they did then it'sboth.
The first DRAM ever brought to market was the Intel 1103 in 1971 which stored a whopping 128 bytes and needed an even more whopping 16V of power.
Eventually there followed 512 byte DRAMs and then the 2k 4116 which claimed 75% of the total DRAM market at its peak.
>>3328202
Nononnono. That number refers to how many cells are in a RAM chip. The 4164 was 64x1 meaning there's one physical 64 kilobit (8192 byte) cell. On the other hand, you can have a 64kx8 chip meaning there's eight 1 kilobyte cells to equal 8 kilobytes. The 4116 was 16kx1 meaning there's one physical 16 kilobit cell, or 2048 bytes.
>>3328404
I own 3 Intel chips just a little older than this one.
The 3101 was Intel's first product and also the first solid state memory.
It can store 64bits as 4bit words, has separate inputs and outputs and runs on 5V.
The only chip older than these I own is one SN7400N made in week 18 of 1967.
>>3328548
Hey these chips are pretty good looking!
Also, nice model 100. What do you use it for?
>>3328553
Thanks.
I mostly used my M100 for writing as the keyboard (with it's linear ALPS switches) is superior than all modern laptops, in the long run it made me buy a Cherry G80-3000LPMDE/01 for my main PC.
Recently I used DSKMGR.CO for a Brother FB-100 disk drive (which the TPDD1 is based on) that I bought with an Olivetti M10 which came with all the manuals, including one for the disk drive.
>>3328574
I see. Does it use the same softwares as the other TRS-80 models, or does it have it's own softwares?
>>3328215
That's freaking inefficient af and uses a _lot_ of power.
>80 RAM chips each using 5V
IIRC you had to upgrade the power supply in an IBM 5150 for that because the original 63w unit wasn't enough to handle a maxed out 640k machine.
>>3328605
I have an IBM 5150 with an AST Six Pak. I'd have to take it out of storage but I'm pretty sure the power supply is 120w or something.
The factory PSU in the IBM XT was 135w but it also had to power a full height hard disk. Later XTs had half height drives and fewer RAM chips due to half of them being 41256es.
>>3325894
Yeah I was thinking of doing something like that, I know people do giveaways on VOGONS all the time. I'll have to get it all sorted and organized there a few things I want to keep anyway
>>3328604
They all have different software.
My M100 doesn't have a modem builtin just as my M10 because these were are intended for european market.
This means that their software is different from their american counterparts as all routines to handle the modem are gone.
>>3328779
No modem for the european market? In 1983?
Which country was it's main target? It would have been pretty useful in some countries like France which had the Télétel network.
But anyway, are there games that were made to run on these machines specificially?
>>3328404
The 4116 was the first DRAM to feature a multiplexed data/address bus which became the norm for DRAMs.
Why is Play DOS Games online whining about not having enough space on my computer all of a sudden?
>>3327510
That's the design used by pretty much every MSX2+ and Turbo-R that Panasonic released. Personally I like the Sanyo Wavy 70FD design more, with it's frontal floppy drive(s for the FD2 model).
>>3329526
I don't know.
Someone said the ZX Spectrum has better sprites than the C64.
What nonsense is this?
>>3331190
That's because the ZX Spectrum only graphic mode is 256*192, which is higher than the 160*220 mode used by many C64 games, and thus allow more detailed "sprites" (though the Speccy don't really have hardware sprites), which are preffered by some people over less detailed but more colorful ones..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZXer8pnjnM
It's a good thing that Sierra still supported the MT-32 when porting their games to the Atari ST (it would have been a waste for the Atari ST if they didn't). Apparently some of their games also support the high resolution monochrome monitor.
>>3331190
Don't know how the ZX Spectrum works, but the C64's high res sprites mode is fucking shit, it cuts the horizontal resolution in half.
So the only way to get decent sprites would probably be to use the monochrome mode and overlay sprites on top of each other, and hope to god that you can write a decent multiplexer.
>>3331223
Yeah, but the C64 could do 320x240 sprites too - but only at a single colour.
A few high-end games multiplexed 1 single colour and 1 multi-colour sprite to get high-res sprites.
ZX Spectrum had ass quality graphics compared to the C64 tho. Did any games even use backgrounds in it?
C64 sprites are 12x21 or 24x21 and you also have a scaling option for either the X or Y axis.
>>3332309
The hardware can also handle collision detection, which I think is not that common when it comes to VDCs
You haven't lived if watching your older cousins play this didn't give you nightmares.
>>3332503
Collision detection registers are worthless for all but the simplest games which is why Nintendo never included them in any of their consoles.
>>3332079
> Did any games even use backgrounds in it?
It would be understandable for most of them not to have one -- the ZX Spectrum don't have any hardware sprite, so if you don't want your "sprites" to switch color when it's navigating through the screen (though that would be pretty fun in some kind of Cameleon-themed game) you'd better not have any elaborate background consisting of more than a single color.
Anyway, posting some OC.
>>3334336
>zx80
Don't laugh, but zx80's go for some serious coin now.
I was really interested in the ZX Spectrum a few years back, never got one though. The fact that it can only be connected through RF is a damn shame.
>>3336324
It wasn't composite?
Anyway, the 128k model have an RGB output.
>>3336328
Oh well, might get one then. I gotta fix my Amigas first though. I'd love to have a Silicon Graphics computer too, but they are sorta hard to find, and since they were workstations and not home computers, they aren't exactly that useful today.
>>3336339
SGI stations are still useful in a way that they're still UNIX stations -- they can do the stuff you'd do on any other Unix(-like) station. Also, there's alway the 3D hardware you could use too, like if you wanna make some raytraced scenes for fun, or game that would take advantage of such stations.
>>3336349
Sure, but I don't possess the skill necessary for that, so if the computers can't be used for gaming or demos (which there are few for SGI) I don't really have much use for them aside from the novelty of it.
>>3336402
Yeah, I understand what you mean, it's true that not everyone might find it useful, seeing the kind of tasks you could do with it.
Anyway, you mentioned earlier that you owned an Amiga, which model do you own? I do own one too, a model 500 (the last revision before they turned it into a 500+ with less stuff), and I think I'll try to get my hands on a 2000 or 3000 one of these days.
>>3336429
I own one 1200 and one 500.
Apparently there's a sequel to the dungeon crawler game Captive called Liberation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljq6jvJ1q-8
Unlike it's prequel, it appears to use texture-mapped 3D environments.
>>3336502
Nice. I hope you'll be able to fix them soon.
Anyway, a demo that I particularily enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3FYdj02kxg
Anyone here interested in classic Macs? I've got an old SE that I've been attempting to stuff with games/applications, and I'd appreciate recommendations.
>>3338653
The SE was produced from 1987 to 90 so look for any software pre-1992 and it should run on the thing.
>>3338653
Also if it's not maxed out to 4MB, you can scan Ebay for 512k 30 pin SIMMs.
>>3338653
There are the obvious Mac choices like the Mindscape Macventures (Uninvited, Shadowgate, Déjà -Vu I & II), Balance of Power, Shufflepuck & Shufflepuck Cafe.
>>3338664
It's maxed, and I'm booting off of a Zip drive because it's the dual 800k floppy model. What's the difference between Shufflepuck and Shufflepuck Cafe?
>>3338738
>Zip drive
Neat! Which capacity? For a late 80s macintosh even the 100MB ones must be some pretty huge storage. I should get a Parallel one for my Amiga one of these days.
>>3338749
>Parallel one for my Amiga
Are there parallel Zip drivers for Amiga? I know the SCSI ones "just work" if you have a controller card.
>>3338805
Yes there are, but you'll need to tweak a parallel cable in order to make the parallel units work on the Amiga though though.
>>3338849
Would it work with one of those multi-port cards that can switch the parallel port between Amiga and IBM compatible? I think the only difference is +5V on one pin.
>>3339212
Well I think it would, but it'd be better to verify it though.
>>3317092
Why would anyone get a green screen for an Amstrad CPC? They look disgusting.
>>3338749
Just a 100MB drive. I'm using about 70 megs right now, and that's with a pretty large game library, and a few basic applications. Any outstanding applications I should grab? (music related, possibly?)
>>3339297
>Why would anyone get a green screen for an Amstrad CPC?
Because monochrome = readable text in high resolution mode. On a color monitor, it's still readable, but some color combination make it pretty damn difficult to read. Therefore a monochrome is, like I said in my previous post, really useful for CP/M stuff and high-resolution games.
>They look disgusting.
That's like, your opinion man.
>>3339912
>Any outstanding applications I should grab? (music related, possibly?)
There's Performer, Vision or Notator that are well-known Mac sequencer (though the last one only became available on Macintosh in, like 1992, and was an Atari ST-only software before that). There might be a version of Cubase for classic Macs, but I don't know if it'll run on a Mac SE.
>>3340160
>>3340502
>>3340504
Oh well, my bad, I though it was released later. I have a copy for my Mega ST (a cracked version though, if I ever find a guenine version for not too much $$$ with the documentation and all I'd buy it even though I can already run it) so I've never really searched about the macintosh version.
>As they shared a CPU with the Atari ST, it probably made porting the program really easy.
Yup, though the ST having built-in MIDI ports, they had to take advantage of that on top of the serial interfaces.
>>3340504
>implying a CPU is the only component in a computer
The Genesis and Mac SE have the same CPU as well. I'd like you to port Streets of Rage to the latter and see how well that works out.
>>3340549
cubase and streets of rage is not a fair comparison
>>3340549
You'd need a 68030 or 68040 or a PowerPC Mac to pull that off. Having no sprites or hardware scrolling makes Johnny a dull boy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7GUkCbmqs
SOR is also not one of the more advanced Genesis games. It's only 512k and the animation is pretty basic.
>>3340549
It's true that saying you can port a software from one platform to another based on the CPU only isn't alway true, but come on, Cubase is a sequencer that only really need a 640 * something video mode and a serial port (RS-422 or MIDI) while Street of Rage is a video game that's supposed to run on a machine that have 2 different CPU and some heavy-duty video hardware for a home console of the late 80s, they're 2 different kind of software.
>>3340606
Genesis has 1 CPU. You're confusing it with the Saturn.
>>3340612
The megadrive have 2 CPU -- a 68000 and a Z80. The 68000 is the main CPU, while the Z80 take care of the sound (and maybe the graphics if I recall correctly).
>>3340616
I checked again and no, the Z80 only has access to the sound hardware (OPN chip and PSG), 8kB of sound RAM, and a 32kB window of the memory that the 68000 can access.
Anyway, while we're talking about 68k-based machines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adh7MftTsCU
>>3340616
The Z80 can run the whole system, since the sound subsystem is basically a Master System, intentionally implemented for compatibility.
It's not designed as a full co-processor though.
>>3341324
No it's not a full co-processor, but it's still like on various arcade boards, multiple CPUs with a main one and other more specialized ones.
Genesis has specialized graphics hardware. Not a fair comparison. The Mac SE and Atari ST are much more alike hardware-wise, even the Amiga is quite different due to also having specialized hardware.
>>3341441
Some ST models do have a blitter though (MegaSTs, and later the STe).
>>3341469
Though about 20 people bought those things.
>>3341490
I didn't say Atari Transputer parallel workstation, I said Mega ST and STe, which were successful models. In France it's pretty easy to find an STe, and not particularily hard to find a Mega ST (I own one, and if it's not as easy to find as the STe, it's because there are still musicians using them -- the guy who sold me his was among them). I think it would be the same in germany, or even easier to find these, as it was the country were the ST was the most popular, among both home nad professional users.
On the subject of the hardware differences between the ST and the Mac, let's not forget that the former have a real sound hardware (PSG chip) instead of a single PCM channel, 2 additional graphic modes (320*200 w/ 16 color, 640*200 w/ 4 color, among a 512 color palette) available with a color monitor (the monochrome one forcing you to stay in 640*400 monochrome).
Also the Ste also have a better graphic chipset with an extended color palette (4096 like the Amiga), hardware scrolling.and the blitter that non-mega models didn't sport.
The ST architecture isn't as simple as the Mac one, sure it isn't like the Megadrive with it's 2 CPU and other specialized chipset or the Amiga with Paula, Agnus, Denise and Copper, but it's still more than a machine with only one graphic mode available, 1 PCM audio channel and nothing else.
What's really easy to port from the ST to the Mac are GEM applications and games, like cubase, but stuff like non-GEM dependant games and applications wont be that easy.
"Speculations on IBM's new entry in its Personal Computer line ended up being more ambitious than the finished product, perhaps a machine based on the Intel 80186 or other next-generation features. Ultimately, there was disappointment to learn that the XT was nothing more than a conservative enhancement of the PC that did not even use the 8086 CPU, but merely the same old 8088. The biggest enhancement to the XT of course is its eight expansion slots, correcting one of the biggest complaints about the PC. This is not without some caveats as the two slots closest to the power supply cannot accommodate full-length expansion cards and the narrower spacing in the XT also means certain cards designed for the PC cannot fit, especially those with double PCBs. The prospective customer is therefore advised to make sure any expansion cards he purchases will fit inside the XT."
"The XT has a beefed-up power supply, putting out 135 watts as opposed to the PC's 63 watt power supply. This is necessary to accommodate the extra expansion slots in the computer as well as the new fixed disk drive. The XT motherboard has been upgraded to accommodate larger capacity 64kx1 DRAMs as opposed to the 16kx1 DRAMs in the original PC. IBM has also redesigned the PC's motherboard for same and discontinued single-sided diskette drives and the cassette model, which was never much of a factor anyway. Although the PC still has the cassette connector, sales literature no longer even mentions it."
"I was slightly disappointed to find out that IBM does not offer the XT with two diskette drives even though the floppy disk controller is unchanged and the ribbon cable for the drives still has two connectors on it. If IBM had used half-height diskette drives, this might have been possible. The lack of two diskette drives is a bit of an inconvenience for some applications particularly copying files between floppies. It seems that the only 'legal' way to purchase an XT with two diskette drives is to buy the 5161 expansion chassis and install the fixed disk in that, then put two diskette drives in the computer itself."
"The fixed disk is one of the XT's biggest attractions and greatly increases the convenience of the machine as well as speed. With a transfer rate of 1.5 million bits per second as opposed to 250,000 per second from a diskette drive, accessing data is threefold faster. I found it took only one second to load BASIC from the fixed disk instead of the four seconds it took from a floppy. The fixed disk is also considerably quieter than the noisy diskette drives. Also the XT can boot directly from the fixed disk as opposed to needing to boot from the floppy drive first. During startup, the computer will still attempt to boot off the floppy and if this is not successful, the fixed disk. It is still of course necessary to boot from a diskette under certain circumstances, particularly when running copy protected software such as Microsoft's Flight Simulator."
"The ST-412 drive in my test XT developed a howling sound within three days. Although I did not lose any data, this was unnerving enough that I had the drive replaced under warranty with a Miniscribe unit which has been completely trouble-free."
"DOS 2.0 is if anything more revolutionary than the XT itself. Microsoft says that it is a complete rewrite from the ground up and has many features derived from their Xenix operating system. This includes support for the XT's fixed disk as well as subdirectories, a more advanced file handling system, and many new and upgraded utilities. BASIC has also been significantly upgraded. Most DOS 1.x applications will work on DOS 2.0. Some will not work and Microsoft has included a list of them in the user documentation. It can be safely assumed that in the coming months, nearly all software vendors will release updated versions of their products for DOS 2.0."
"Having said that, the documentation for DOS 2.0 is a disappointment and shows obvious signs of being rushed. There are numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes and the manual for BASIC 2.0 was even worse. In addition to more spelling mistakes, the examples shown of BASIC's new functions prove that the writer did not understand the purpose of most of them. The initial BASIC 2.0 manual released last spring was in fact nothing more than the BASIC 1.x manual with a couple sheets of printed paper listing the new BASIC 2.0 features that the user was expected to staple into the manual."
"IBM as of yet has not offered any new video display cards for the PC and these still consist of the Monochrome Display and Printer Adapter and the Color Graphics Adapter. The former is mostly designed for an office environment and provides sharp, high resolution text, but no graphics capability. Aside from IBM's 5151 monochrome monitor, one may also purchase a compatible third party display. I had tested an Amdek amber monochrome monitor, but preferred the IBM 5151 for its sharpness and phosphor color. The Color Graphics Adapter provides 16 colors and full bitmap mode graphics, but at a much lower resolution. In addition, IBM has finally introduced a color monitor, the 5153. One of the more nagging complaints about the Color Graphics Adapter is its tendency to cause screen flicker when scrolling text due to contention between the CPU and the video circuitry. BASIC does not have this problem as it uses the BIOS text output function which properly obeys the rules for preventing screen flicker."
"One of the industry's least favorite subjects to discuss is backing up data. Although the business world uses archival data tapes for this purpose, tape drives are extremely pricey and unaffordable to the average customer. As such, the only cost-effective option for backup is by using the floppy drive in the computer. To this end, Microsoft has included a backup utility in DOS 2.0 to do just that - it will copy the contents of a fixed disk to diskettes in a compressed archival format, which can later be restored. The problem is that this will require a significant amount of diskettes. The fixed disk in the XT stores 10 million bytes, which is equivalent to 27 diskettes. Worse still, the backup utility in DOS 2.0 requires that you have blank, formatted diskettes on hand which will create a problem as the user typically won't know how many diskettes are needed to back the fixed disk up beforehand."
>>3342658
Less Murrifat rubbish and more real computers.
Is there a good list of games for the PC 98 that you can play without knowing Japanese.
>>3342839
Well by trying to avoid text-heavy games like strategy, role-playing and adventure games, and by checking for more action-oriented ones, I guess that you'll end up with quite a few games that doesn't require you to understand runes.
>>3342906
>New! IBM PS/2 model 30 now available in ant size!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRS-80-Model-III-Micro-Computer-Radio-Shack-/282093629693?hash=item41ae1730fd:g:mGkAAOSwRQlXfsx8
"Sold as-is, no returns vintage Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3 MicroComputer. When powered on one red light turns on and then turns off. The power cord's prong looks like it was cut and replaced. Does come with cover with a slight rip. Please look at pics before buying. I do not know if it can be fixed but it can be used as parts."
This is actually normal behavior on the Model III. If you power it up with no bootable disk, it just sits there with a blank screen and you can go into BASIC by holding down Break and then pressing Reset.
Anyone want to drop this poor sod an email and explain that he has to press Break+Reset and that the computer is probably working just fine.
>>3344743
Why don't you do it instead of asking some people on a mongolian magic tapestry sharing forum to do it for you? It's not like it'll take more than 2 minutes.
>>3344794
I don't have an email account set up atm.
Amberstar on the Amiga:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3u6Ar4PPO8 (6:30 to skip the credits)
I really should give the Thalion RPGs (Dragonflight, Amberstar and Ambermoon) a try, they seems to be rather good games.Has anyone here ever played these games?
are there any examples of C64 cartridges that were larger than 16kb except for the easyflash?
how easy would it be to build one in theory and just slap a game on it?
>>3344959
Couple of PAL region carts like the Ocean Double Dragon used bank switching.
So LGR just dropped a megaton on his fanbase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjYkPKRm-8
Wow. Needless to say, DOS PC prices that were already crazy are about to get far, far, far worse. I've been looking for a 486 for months and seeing this pretty much single-handedly made me give up.
>>3346020
Talking about him sure wont help though (nor does giving him free views). Just avoid ebay as your main supplier and check for other selling websites and you'll be alright.
Anyway this thread need more music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgn9djDqSDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2YQp-sDsb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZN7-AWXnBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkrUFxePuWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8VonBWGXg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-TRS-80-Computer-w-Printer-with-Manuals-Radio-Shack/351774824547?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3Dc7daf254462d4cf8a96e0bd25696c823%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D282093629693
Apparently not working but at least he's fair enough to charge a reasonable price and holy god, that printer and all that software.
>>3346020
This guy is one of the many autists who post on Vogons and think you need a real 486 to run games that can just be played on DOSBox and are almost indistinguishable from the real thing.
>>3346693
dosbox sucks though
you have to have a different config file for almost every game
>>3346748
So it's just like a real PC where you have to configure a different CONFIG.SYS for every game? :^)
>>3346750
Not if you actually know how to configure your shit (putting everything in high memory, shit like that) and run memmaker. Also
>DOS Box is indistinguishable from a real 486 PC
Until you run a demo and you see the whole shit crashing when trying to replicate some simple effects.
>>3346756
>Not if you actually know how to configure your shit (putting everything in high memory, shit like that) and run memmaker. Also
Of course unlike yourself, I was not born in 1998 so I did actually do this stuff back then and it's not as easy as you think at all.
>Until you run a demo and you see the whole shit crashing when trying to replicate some simple effects
But who runs demos anyway except Yuropoors?
Believe me when I say, you'd have to be constantly readjusting stuff for every game depending on its memory or other requirements.
>>3346759
>born in 1998
Nice assumption.
>so I did actually do this stuff back then
Considering the way tou act, I doubt you actually did.
>it's not as easy as you think at all
It's not easy when you don't read the fucking manual. There's everything needed in the DOS help for you to allocate EMS out of your XMS, free the monochrome display drivers from memory, specify which segment you want your TSRs and drivers to be placed in memory, in other words make sure the way you managed your stuff allow most games to run on your configuration.
>But who runs demos anyway except Yuropoors?
Now I see you're just shitposting.
>>3346765
All the games I have on my 486 HDD don't require me to change my config.sys file. After running Memmaker i have enough conventional memory (there's alway >600kB free when no other TSR are loaded), I alway have some EMS that is emulated and enough XMS to run most pre-95 games.
Anyone have to deal with any retrocomputing bullshit lately?
I installed Mini vMac on my laptop so I could play Wesleyan Tetris while I'm away from home, and I got kinda carried away and downloaded a software archive or two.
Much to my dismay, I found out that several of the games in the archive had the nVIR virus and I spent the last hour disinfecting everything and swapping virtual floppies.
I never realized how prevalent the nVIR virus was.
Also, it feels silly, but I have a folder of virtual blank floppies.
>>3348581
Ah yeah, that kind of stuff does happen from time to time too when it comes to Amiga disk images -- some people didn't check his disks before dumping them, stuff like that. Hopefuly, many cracks, demos and tool disks also include a little antivirus of some sort that'll check the memory for well known viruses (most of them are reboot resistant so if it was there when running the demo, it'll still be there when you'll be trying to do some serious work after rebooting).
>>3348687
Yeah. Everything's good now.
On a side note, does anyone here know where I can download the macventures? The original ones for the macintosh, please.
I can't seem to find any of them, only the amiga ports. I know macintoshgarden has deja vu, but it's 404-ing on me.
>>3348706
The mac version of Shadowgate seems to be downloadable on myabandonware, same for Uninvited.
>>3348718
Only the dos version.
>>3348758
Never mind, I'm dumb
Man, getting files in and out of Mini vMac is such a cludge. ImportFi *works* but only for archive files. Problem is, all the stuffit archive stuff I have is too modern for stuffit 4.0.1 which runs in the emulator. There's miniunzp, but the file has to be named "arc.zip"
There's a improved miniunzp, but it requires system 7, which I haven't gone through the trouble of installing.
>>3304759
I'm about done with my AT build, its got everything it needs short of a 386 upgrade.
>>3349237
Those IBM brand printers...did anyone actually buy those things except government agencies?
>>3349237
1.44MB drive and I guess it's a Hercules card driving the monitor?
>>3349241
He has at minimum a monochome card of some kind. It could even be an EGA card set to mono mode.
Having said that, I've never liked 286 PCs. There's nothing really you get out of them that you can't get out of a 386/486//Pentium, they're too slow to run Windows decently, too fast to run the really old stuff that needs an 8088 and I also dislike how the BIOS setup is on a boot floppy instead of the system ROM.
Where the heck did the Amiga thread go?
>>3349239
>>3349241
Its got an ATI VGA Wonder running in EGA mode.
Soundblaster 16
3COM Etherlink III
Hayes 1200 baud modem
Intel Aboveboard with 1.2mb of EMS
And the standard fixed disk controller card for the 20 meg drive.
>>3349248
It looks like it was deleted.
>>3349250
Why? The thing was over 400 posts of mostly constructive discussion.
>>3349252
No idea, it was still on topic too.
>>3349257
>>3349250
>>3349248
The thing got axed because it had a furry OP pic. Per Global 3:
"You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Trolls, flames, racism, off-topic replies, uncalled for catchphrases, macro image replies, indecipherable text (example: "lol u tk him 2da bar|?"), anthropomorphic ("furry") or grotesque ("guro") images, post number GETs ("dubs"), or loli/shota pornography."
>>3349249
A proper extended memory card would be better but maybe hard to find since most 286 PCs were never used with XMS or with anything except as a faster 8086.
>>3349259
You honestly mean to tell me Captain Hot Pocket deleted a PERFECTLY ON TOPIC thread with lots of interesting discussion solely because it had a furry image as the OP pic.
>>3349249
Yet another nice looking pic. Do you have any other photos?
Anyway, that's a pretty nice setup.
>Soundblaster 16
>3COM Etherlink III
I have both these cards in my 486 machine too (though my SB16 is a value model, without the waveblaster port). Also, is the modem for BBSes?
>>3349263
Yeah, took me a while to scrounge enough DIP RAM chips to populate a few banks.
Can i put two identical VG isa cards in na 386 DX and then have dual monitors, both cards have only 1 vga output ??
Also I have a EGA/CGA monitor and would like ti hook it up to the 386 ,can I use the dual VGA/EGA-CGA without removing and replacing the cards every-time I wanna switch between monitors ??
>>3349263
IBM had a XMS card for the AT which is either 2-4MB (not sure how much) and is populated with single DIPs which I assume are 41256es. Most third party XMS cards had 30 pin SIMM slots.
Another interesting experiment would be building a homebrew memory board with SRAM.
>>3349275
>Can i put two identical VG isa cards in na 386 DX and then have dual monitors, both cards have only 1 vga output ??
No. That wasn't possible at all in a PC until PCI cards.
>>3349275
If I recall correctly the only display cards you can actually put in the same PC-AT are one VGA/EGA/CGA and one MDA.
>>3349281
>Most third party XMS cards had 30 pin SIMM slots
286 boards generally only have the first 640k of RAM on the motherboard, although I think some late ones might have had SIMM slots (late 286s made in 89-91 were more like a 386 and included 1.44MB floppy support, onboard BIOS setup, etc)
>>3349287
Get one of these and he can run Windows 3.1 on that thing at a painfully slow clip.
What's the best retro computer to get if I want to use it for making music?
>>3349318
1. Atari ST
.
.
.
9001. Anything else
>>3349249
>And the standard fixed disk controller card for the 20 meg drive
If this is an original CMT hard disk, I'd be all like "Damn." because those things were a piece of shit.
>>3349334
Seagate ST-225
>>3349298
Or he can run Princess Maker II at the right speed. If he had an MPU-401 unit he could even play the music in MIDI (with an MT-32 or a GM expander) when faster computers need to be slowed down to do so.
>>3349318
It depends on what you want to do when it comes to music.
You wanna do tracker stuff? A DOS PC with a Soundblaster-compatible or an Amiga 1200 would be good, though you can already do that kind of stuff on a modern PC with a Windows or Linux tracker.
You wanna do MIDI stuff? The Atari ST is among the kings because it doesn't require you to have any additional hardware other that the MIDI expanders and synths themselves. Some PC soundcards have a "wavetable" (which doesn't really use wavetable synthesis) unit incorporated but most of the time they barely sound better than the MS wavetable (which basically consist of the SC-55 patches without all the effects that makes them sound more than passable). It doesn't mean that you can't do MIDI stuff on DOS, it's just that you'll need more than just your computer, a sequencer, a couple of DIN-5 cables and a MIDI expander to do something decent, unless you're willing to go for the third option. Also unless you don't get a fast 386 & later or use an MPU-401 in Intelligent Mode, you're gonna have some shitty timing.
You wanna do FM synthesis? Then unless you're living in Japan or Netherland, stick with DOS PCs with a REAL Adlib or pre-PCI Soundblaster (FM emulation done by some soundcards suck really hard). You can also go with an ST and an external FM expander. I you do live in Netherland (and to some extent Spain and France) you can also use an MSX with an FM-PAC or MSX Audio cartridge, or even better, use a Yamaha CX5M or CX7M/128 MSX.
You wanna do bleeps and bloops? Then everything that has at least an AY-2-8912 or the likes will be enough.
>>3349334
There was a guy on VCFED who said one of his prized possessions is a working CMT 20MB hard disk.
Basically, these things were junk that IBM installed in the AT because it was cheap. But then factory-installed PC components are always like that.
I'd just get a common 16 bit multifunction ISA card and an IDE drive. They're faster, more reliable, and have a hell of a lot more space than that ST-225.
Also you don't need to manually park the drive heads with PARK.COM every time you move the computer around.
Also the AT had Ye Data 1.2MB 5.25" drives which were infamously bad for not being able to write to 360k disks properly which is why on dual drive models, IBM equipped a 360k drive as B:
Later ATs (spring 1986 until their discontinuation in spring 1987) could be had with 3.5" 720k drives and the last revision BIOS also recognizes 1.44MB drives and 101 key keyboards.
>>3349343
>Or he can run Princess Maker II at the right speed
That thing came out in 1993. I'm pretty sure he's not running that on an IBM AT.
>>3349381
Wolfenstein 3D came out in 1992 and could run on a 286 PC. He also got a VGA card and more than 1MB or RAM.
I'm pretty sure that the PC-98 version could run on a PC-9801VX and some lower-end models (like the U and UV ones), which used a 286 (and a V30 for the lower-end ones) and had only 1MB or RAM. Hell, it even came on 5"1/4 floppies.
I don't think the PC version require more ressources than the original version. The only thing that would cause problems is the fact that the game would take more than half his HDD.
