Previous thread: >>3136283
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x (embed)
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W (embed)
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
>>3153482
noob question. Can someone give me a good explanation why flat screen hdmi crt's are shit for retro gaming? There is a mammoth one at the thrift store for $7 and I really want it. If not for Retro vidya, for modern stuff.
>>3153494
All the HDMI CRTs I know of do scaling on the 240p signal to bring it up to a resolution that can be displayed by the ~33khz horizontal sync frequency of the flyback transformer (assuming this is a 1080i CRT).
It is scaled digitally in much the same way as a LCD would. HDMI CRTs are 'pixel-aware' in a way that the purely analog ones without small computers inside are not.
>>3153502
It's a Toshiba Wide Screen. I checked the back, has all the connections you'd want plus 2 hdmi inputs.
If my retro games will have lag and look like balls on it, will my HD systems look good/better than a conventional hd tv?
>>3153502
Also, due to the scaling, the 15khz horizontal frequency assumed by light guns like the NES's Zapper will not be present and the gun will not function, even with a theoretical (not real-world) zero-lag scaler.
>>3153494
Most of them do scaling and/or transcoding of the whole frame and thus introduce lag.
There are a few HD or ED capable CRTs that can handle 480i natively along with 480p and 720p although I don't know whether they use hdmi for input. Probably not.
>>3153506
I'd say they'd look a TINY bit better than on a comparable flat panel (plasma screens excepted).
Plasma screens and HD CRTs will have nicer black levels, and the CRTs in particular will (usually, depending on the phosphor used) have good color accuracy too. I think plasmas also usually had pretty accurate color reproduction, but I never owned one to test.
>>3153509
The PVM-20L5 is one of a handful I am aware of, along with a Conrac CRT (K42) and several arcade monitors. The GVM-2020 was a computer monitor from the early 90s that also handled 480i and 480p, but I don't think it did any higher than 480p. Maybe some Amiga monitors, too, but I never owned an Amiga sadly.
I don't know of any consumer level CRT TV's that do this, but I'd love to hear about them. It would require separate flyback windings for different resolutions, which increases cost and is why consumer HD CRTs tended to not do it that way.
In any case, none of those had HDMI. HDMI on a CRT without processing on analog inputs would require at least two totally separate video pipelines and increase manufacturing complexity and cost.
The closest I can think of would be the SDI input cards on broadcast monitors - I have seen HDMI-to-SDI solutions before, I think.
>>3153506
>Toshiba Wide Screen
Toshiba made some TVs that were able to handle 480i, 480p and 1080i. The models I wrote down are Toshiba 36HFX72 and a 32HFX72. These do not seem to have an HDMI input so yours may or may not be good for retro gaming.
You can look for the owner's manual and see if it can handle 480i natively.
>>3153525
I somewhat doubt the consumer owner's manual would specify if it _natively_ supported it.
It might claim 480i support because it can upscale 480i. The best way to check would be to have someone who can hear 15khz buzzing (or you if you still can) listen for a loud ringing noise when the TV is displaying a 480i signal. My 20L5 switches to the 31khz winding for 480p signals and the wine goes away (out of our range of hearing). A native support implementation would work like that.
>>3153520
>I don't know of any consumer level CRT TV's that do this
I believe Toshiba made two models, 36HFX72 and 32HFX72 I do not own them so I can't confirm.
>>3153534
My only toshiba's a 27A42. Works beautifully for games, supports 480i/240p only, but has composite, S-video, and YPbPr inputs. I don't use it much because it's too big for my tastes and I am always losing the remote I need to switch its video inputs. Also I have no RGB to YPbPr converter yet. I am drawing up a diagram for one that uses a ADC -> CPLD -> DAC to handle matrix multiplication to convert RGB + sync into YPbPr, though.
>>3153538
>RGB to YPbPr
Have you tried using something like pic or using an encoder chip?
>>3153548
I've seen that schematic and I bet it works well - I just want to learn about CPLDs.
The encoders you are talking about aren't made anymore that I can find. I could find them used on ebay probably, but they won't be around forever.
>>3153534
Neat. I don't see anywhere that it says 'n khz' explicitly in the specifications page in the manual online, but I'll keep looking.
>>3153494
There's nothing wrong with a flat screen as long as its not HD. HD means it has to upscale the SD image and adds latency.
I have a flat screen SDTV, and its fine even with light gun games.
YoU Can see some of the 27A42 on the left in this pic. Not got a better photo right now.
>>3153567
>there's nothing wrong with flat screens
Well, there is ONE thing. Geometry.
But it's easy enough to overlook usually. I found a flat screen CRT at a garage sale recently, and offered to pick it up for a friend that wanted a CRT, but explained the geometry issue to him. He took it anyway, of course, and he's happy with it, but I wouldn't use one myself if I had a non-flat one available with the same inputs.
>>3153573
The TV in question. Insignia NS-20FTV - the Best Buy brand. Seen here in the trunk of my car before I drove to his place.
Note the crack in the plastic up top - that was the tension band for implosion protection breaking through the top.
It must have gotten jostled in a move or something - I opened it, repositioned the tube to fit in the chassis properly, and while I was at it I repositioned the yoke to fix the impurity problem that had developed. It looks pretty good besides the slightly weird geometry now. My friend is happy with it since he doesn't need YPbPr or RGB or anything fancy - he programs games for the NES as a hobby, so composite is his best friend.
He was actually just happy to be getting S-video, too - for when he starts trying to make SNES games. His old CRT was composite-only and somehow the neckboard splintered during a move. -_-
>>3153590
forgot pic.
>>3153494
would work great for modern stuff
>>3153561
A user review somewhere mentions line doubler circuitry so it's likely the 36HFX72/32HFX72 do not support 480i natively.
Jesus man, slow down a bit.
>>3153612
Hey, 480p from the Wii/GC look wonderful on a decent ED/HDCRT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1O8kqrdjrU
>>3153626
Well, aside from being smaller than just about any consumer ED/HDCRT, that is the preferable setup; Same supported resolutions(plus SD) and without any of the input delay.
>>3153623
Pure 60fps goodness.
I've not got a good camera for CRT captures.
Here's the one 480p recording I ever made (warning: photosensitive epileptic people may want to stay away. Also, not a video game.)
>>3153626
Hail, L5 brother. Want to trade? :p
I kinda want a smaller set. If you're near northeast indiana, let me know.
>>3153636
and in 480i so you can see what the difference is like.
>>3153636
Even with this camera, getting everything to pick up properly without either being too dark, too bright, or with heavy beam shadowing is a mess.Still need to stop being lazy, and rollback drivers to decently process some video again,
>>3153643
Drivers? whut.
What kind of drivers are you using on your computer to get video from your camera? is this some DV camera?
If I could just manually focus mine it'd be better.
>>3153643
Actually, is it just a capture card?
I can fix 240p being seen as two 480i fields on my capture card pretty easily - I'd imagine you could fix whatever issue you're having similarly with some ffmpeg filters.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57311112/sonic1-svideo-em2861-chipset-capture.webm (about 200MiB, just so you've been warned if you happen to be stuck on Comcast or a limited mobile data connection)
>>3153645
Nah, Sony RX-100m1
I don't just directly upload the output from my camera to youtube anymore; I send it through Vegas, lower the bit rate and do a slight bit of color/brightness correction if need be.
The last drivers released for my aging AMD 6950 (Crimson) disables OpenCL, and makes video rendering take anywhere from three to five times as long as the video in question, where as the older Catalyst drivers(with OpenCL still enabled) gives me nearly real time rendering: 10 minute video = ~10 minute render time instead of 30-50+
>>3153653
Ah. Why do you lower the bitrate?
Color correction I understand.
I use ffmpeg for that because linux. Back when I used windows more often Vegas was the go-to for me, too. But I was on a laptop with integrated graphics, so I was probably more miserable than you without openCL.
>>3153653
Question, since I know nothing about AMD cards.
Why did they disable OpenCL?
>>3153532
>The best way to check would be to have someone who can hear 15khz buzzing (or you if you still can) listen for a loud ringing noise when the TV is displaying a 480i signal.
Alternatively, you can place a probe of a multimeter with a frequency setting near the flyback. Of course this doesn't work it the monitor is shielded.
>>3153573
>Well, there is ONE thing. Geometry.
Not all flat tubes have horrible geometry.
>>3153671
>Not all flat tubes have horrible geometry.
True, but a flat tube with great geometry won't have it as well as a rounded tube with great geometry.
>>3153657
The 28Mbit/s the camera is using is by no means necessary for Youtube(in fact it's double their recommended 12Mbit for 1080p60 and still more than the 24Mbit suggested for 1440p60) and dropping it to a VBR of 14-20Mbit is unnoticable to anyone, takes less space to keep around, and takes less time to upload(3.5GB for ~30 minutes of video vs ~6GB unprocessed)
>>3153663
I believe the new driver makes use of a newer version of OpenCL that my now 5-6 year old card doesn't support, so they just disabled it for legacy devices. I am planning on upgrading to (in all likelihood) an r9 380 soon, because I prefer the new driver interface and options to the older one.
>>3153675
That depends on what distortions bother you less.
>>3153679
As long as it's under 20GiB, I'd rather give Youtube the highest quality I possibly can. Since I usually encode with h.264 with constant rate factor, I use level 18 (visually lossless in ffmpeg), that's good enough for me. But I don't unnecessarily cut bitrate because I know youtube's encoder will do that whether I want it to or not, so I try to minimize the effect of it.
I have to scale my video captures nearest-neighbor to 1440x960 (from 720x480) to get youtube to do a decent job encoding my videos. Also for 60fps playback.
>>3153681
I don't have a rounded tube that bulges out by more than a couple centimeters, so I don't notice it being rounded while playing. I _DO_ notice pincushioning though.
>>3153679
Also, why not nvidia?
Maybe this is just a brand loyalty thing, though.
>>3153690
No maymays or anything like that here, just not a fan of the company to be entirely honest.
>>3153694
Alright.
Their attitude towards linux leaves a lot to be desired, I'll admit. Like following up and actually giving the nouveau developers some signed firmware like they said they would for their newest cards.
Best I can do since I have no magnifying glass handy.
>>3153713
Less blurry
Greetings from Silent Hill
>>3153482
>Cleveress Reflected in Title
That's pretty good for a tripfag
>>3154256
Heh, thanks, I guess.
Only a tripfag now because someone started impersonating me two threads ago. I wish it wasn't necessary.
>>3154412
tripfagging is NEVER necessary
>>3154420
okay, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Can't find my magnifying glass anywhere, but I found my microscope, so here's aAGS-101 GBA SP LCDunder it at 40x.
>>3153636
What made them think that eye rape was a good idea?
>order RCA to BNC adapters
>Amazon ships them in an Uncharted 4 envelope
My connectors are tainted with non-retro.
Hey /crt/, how many lines how you say it's optimal for 240p? How about 480p?
>>3155087
More lines=Bigger dark lines
theres not really an optimal amount (now thats not what 20L5 guy would say though)
>bit of green tint on my computer monitor
mitsubishi cs-3115r
looking to find any info you all may have on this model tv. Google isnt coming up with squat that I can find on my mobile anyway.
>>3154132
Tell me of your monitor. I Feel this is the way Silent Hill was meant to be played.
Dumb question incoming. Can one set a receiver on top of a PVM? Besides obvious potential heat issues are there typically any magnets in home receivers that are going to mess with my CRT?
>>3155291
Actually I agree. I don't have any specific TVL count that I consider 'superior'. It's all obhective, but I prefer somewhat lower counts. Also some monitors (like the 20L5) have a narrower beam when tun in higher resolutions - this problem is also why the black areas between scan lines are so much thicker when you use doublestrike on a 480p PC monitor to get 240 lines.
It's all objective though - I prefer lower but wpuldn't refuse one because it's TV line count was 'too high' - I'd love to get a BVM-20F1E or similar, for instance. That's not really likely, though.
>>3155306
My Sony GPM-100sf (I think that's the model anyway) has that problem, too. I think I could fix it with some potentiometer on the main board or neck, but don't really care enough to mess with it. But I feel your annoyance.
>>3155486
You'll probably be fine - but if it's got a transformer coil inside that'll be somewhat magnetic. Dunno if it'd be strong enough to matter.
>>3155424
Forget it i turned the guy down. It only has composite and s-video so im not interested.
>>3155554
Honestly, the MGA Mitsubishi TVs with svideo are very impressive. I had one for the longest time, but then.. Flyback transformer and caps started to fail. They are an old line of televisions, and I have no idea what the previous owner used it for or for how long they did. Looked really great, too. Standard black cube. Very utilitarian 90s.
>>3155554
>s-video, not interested
S-video can look REALLY good for low resolution signals - in fact its maximum chroma subsampling rate is high enough that with a really nice encoder you can get RGB-quality in 240p resolutions. Now, most consoles don't have encoders that good, but RGB -> S-video encoders on digikey are numerous and I wager at least one of those will do it extremely well. I don't see what your problem is with it.
Even stock s-video (or in the case of the Genesis modded s-video since it never outputted it originally) can look really fantastic. On my SNES it is absolutely great.
People dismiss s-video as crap, but it really isn't that bad.
>TV works fine on it's side
>normal orientation everything is a washed out blue
am i fucked, /crt/?
>>3155696
Probably a false contact or dry solder joint.
>>3155696
pixplskthnx.
Images would be helpful - I assume you've tried degaussing it in the normal orientation?
You could mess with the yoke and fix it too if you are ready to deal with convergence and purity adjustments.
>>3155702
If it's a problem where at a certain point it 'jumps' from normal to blue, rather than a slow transition as it's rotated, this is the answer.
Hey /vr/ i need some help I dont know where to plug the other audio cable on this sony 8' PVM and thus can only get one channel of audio, any help is appreciated
>>3155737
First of all, fix your rotation.
Second, PVMs have shitty speakers built in as a rule. Don't use them.
Third, you'd want to sum the two channels together for mono, if you insist on using one of the shittiest speakers I've ever heard. You can 'cheat' with a Y-splitter, or use a better resistor method (I use 330 ohms on each channel usually) or a mixer.
>>3155737
PVMs, with few exceptions, only have mono audio if any at all.
You could technically build a circuit to combine stereo audio into mono(or do the dirty thing and just force the two together), but you'd be much better off just getting a separate solution for audio. If you're looking for high visual fidelity, why not go for audio fidelity as well?
Best thing if you don't want to use headphones or a amp + speaker solution would be to use a set of desktop PC speakers. Those can sound decent if you get nicer ones. Used ones are really cheap - I have a pair of harman kardons that came with some Dell computer - paid a buck for them at a garage sale.
>>3155737
>Monster cable
>photo taken in iOS
Going to bed early tonight. So you won't have to deal with me for a few hours.
>>3155635
Not saying its bad but i wouldnt really have a use for it without YPbPr or RGB. Although I do agree ita a very clean looking chassis. Simple like you said utilitarian.
>>3155681
Never said S-video is bad but i need RGB or YPbPr because im just looking to find a larger tv for when I splitscreen with guests. And all my systems are setup for either of those 2 signals. The only thing i have outputting via S-video would be an N64 and a NES using composite so having to use for 2 systems isnt worth it for my situation.
Im looking for something with 480i YPbPr, S-video, and Composite at or above 25 inches.
>>3155775
I can recommend the Toshiba 27A42 (27") because I have one and it fits that description. Not really thin scanlines or anything, but YPbPr in particular on it looks really good.
Splitscreen on 20" isn't bad, though.
Why was component YPbPr introduced last when it is the easiest to process?
>>3155780
4 player splitscreen would be pretty bad. 2 player im sure isnt awful
Is there a way to hook up pc speakers to a pvm ?
>>3155790
>a way to hook PC speakers to a PVM?
That's actually pretty stupid when phrased like that, but I think I know what you mean. You connect the speakers to your audio source and put them on either side of the monitor. If you have an A/V switcher or more than one console you hook the speakers to the switcher output, and if you just have one console you just connect its audio output straight to the speakers.
Use a 3.5mm TRS to stereo RCA cable to connect to the speakers.
>>3155780
Also ill look into the tv but im trying to stay local for this television because It more optional at this point.
I already have the 3 necessary monitors for my solo setup.
BVM-20F1U
BVM-D24xxxx i forget the rest
21" PC monitor forget the brand name and model ATM.
Picking up an old Sony 25" consumer set with the 34 pin RGB out this weekend but it lacks S-video.
So i could set for an s-video only but if get a large 30"+ tv it better have component(Ypbpr) and s-video.
Then i could bypass the 25" and get an RGB to Ypbpr transcoder and hook everything up to the big screen.
Even found an old CRT projector locally but they want $500 and it only takes RGB unless i try and track down old probably nonexistant expansion cards for it. Multiformat for 15khz to 7xkhz horizontal forget the vertical. So it capable up to 1080i 100" screen maximum
>>3155810
Name of projector: Electrohome Marquee 8500
Sorry for any grammar or spelling errors hard to check long posts on mobile.
>>3155771
It's a cable for Wii, and the Monster Cable for the Wii is actually pretty reasonably priced and very well built. One of the few situations where it isn't a rip off.
Some things you might need - gender-changers may be unnecessary but I don't know your setup.
The RCA -> TRS 3.5mm cable
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2
RCA female-to-female stereo coupler (maybe unnecessary, depends on your cable length and setup)
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10587
3.5mm TRS female-to-female coupler (some speakers have a cable coming out that is not detachable for input, and if you use those you might need this)
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042901&p_id=7230&seq=1&format=2
>>3155810
Let us know what the model number on the set is, that sounds cool. I think I may have seen one, but I can't remember where. (the sony consumer one)
Most projectors will handle 15khz RGB fine through the VGA connector, from what little research I've done into them.
>>3155828
Oh this one has 5 pin BNCs and take Comp sync on the hsync pin.
Oh and the consumer set is a Sony KV-25XBR
>>3155810
I'm not positive on Toshiba's model numbering practices, but I think any model in the xxA42 series will have those inputs. I know the 27A30 does not, and the A30s are a bit older. Not sure if there were intermediary models.
>>3155813
There's a 9500LC near me for $400. If I had the money and in any way could actually make use of the massive screen it can output, I'd probably grab it; It's just about as high end and high spec you can get with that line.
>>3155842
Yeah, you can find VGA -> 5 BNC breakouts pretty easily. I see them locally at a computer store all the time. Most will accept composite sync over the horizontal sync pin, in case you decide to try that route.
Just rememeber that this projector info is from a friend of mine - I don't own a projector at the moment. It applies to his three projectors and he's pretty sure it's more or less universal.
>>3155783
YPbPr is not the easiest - RGB is since it requires no processing.
black and white System M video (on which NTSC is based) is also extremely simple and can be done with minimal processing (and with entirely analog components). I believe color NTSC/PAL/SECAM can be too, but they are a lot more complex. they exist because no one wanted to drop backward compatibility with black and white televisions.
YPbPr is a stupid solution - RGB with sync-on-green was a better one that used the same number of cables and required less processing. But YPbPr looks to be derived from the idea of S-video - separating a black and white Sysyem M image from the color information and encoding it over two lines instead of one, to improve subsampling quality.
>>3155709
slow transition is more accurate, if i tilt it back it gradually gains color coming from the top.
>>3155902
Then yeah, that sounds like a purity issue that either a) a degauss in normal orientation or b) adjusting the yoke could fix. I'd need to see pics or a video though.
>>3155856
I know about VGA breakouts but i meant it actually has BNC inputs on the projector 5 in total and the hsync is also Csync compatible.
>>3155853
Yeah if I had the room Id totally use something like that that would be some wicked sized splitscreen or even Solo playing. But id want to ceiling mount it and that involves scan reverseing which according to th manual a technican must do but im sure its doable yourself then again I could be wrong.
>>3155906
Only large high grade projector I'm hunting for is a 35mm one to play my movie trailers on. :\
Sadly those make any CRT on this thread look like it's worth pocket change.
![SNES_YPbPrCircuit[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7fKOuIS.jpg "SNES_YPbPrCircuit[1].jpg")
Decided to put together a little transistor-based amp to try and fix the component output of my one SNES.
Amplifying only one line didn't do much at all and even made things worse in one regard. Amplifying both has things -almost- to the point where they match the RGB output (in terms of color) without adjusting chroma, but the greens still seem slightly under-saturated. Still, much better than it looked before.
I'm using the circuit applied to Pr in the picture for both Pb and Pr, with the exception of 2 things:
-330uf cap instead of 220uf as I only have one of the latter at the moment and I figured matching the two would be better than mixing. I do have 100ufs that I could put together to try instead, but I'm not really sure if that'd do much.
-75ohm resistors to ground instead of 80, since I do not have any of the former at the moment.
>>3155906
>But id want to ceiling mount it and that involves scan reverseing which according to th manual a technican must do but im sure its doable yourself then again I could be wrong.
Mounting a platform that hangs from the ceiling and placing the projector on said platform could get around that.
>>3155949
If they wanted 75 Ohms couldn't they use two 150 Ohms resistor in parallel instead of the 82 Ohms resistor?
>>3155949
But the projector is made to be angled up when floorstanding the reversing is need because the projector is placed upside down for ceiling mounting. Unless you can angle it down without distorting the picture? Im not too familar with CRT projectors.
How do I get 240p YPbPr output from a modern PC so I can emulate on my CRT?
>>3155974
output 240p over VGA and use a converter to make it yuv
What's with the nonstop posts from tripags in here?
>>3155974
VGA->Component transcoder.
>>3156182
not that simple
he needs a compatible graphics card
I need a remote to try and fix this right?
>>3156328
fix what?
>>3156328
>time blaster alarm clock
you're alright anon.
>>3153509
how can i tell if my crt kv-34hs420 has input lag?
>>3156417
>kv-34hs420
It's HD so it's upscaling 240p and adding input lag
>>3156417
If you want to test for yourself, split a video signal and feed it to both the CRT in question and a known reference point(SD CRT or PC CRT, something that doesn't do scan conversion/upscaling) and display something fast moving on it, preferably with a timer. Take a photo/video, and pause the video: If the CRT you're testing matches up with the reference CRT, it doesn't have input lag(or at the very least is under a single frame). If the timer is behind, there is delay.
That said, the HS420's do have input lag for both SD and ED signals: 3 frames and 2 frames respectfully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g
The CRT in the back is a KV-27HS420, a small 4:3 brother to yours. First timer is displayed in 480p, the second in 240p.
>>3155949
I think that one signal is stronger or weaker than the other.
If you really want to fix that then you need a oscilloscope and testpattern.
Both R-Y, B-Y must 0.7Vpp (for "component input"), it could be very likely that amplitudes of the encoder are very off.
Most video ICs used in TVs from the 90s (for example delay line for PAL decoding: TDA4662) has something like 525mVpp for R-Y and 665Vpp for B-Y inputs and outputs twice as much.
An alternative way would be to put a variable voltage amplifier before the current amplifier (which drives the 75ohms in the TV/Monitor), with this you could adjust the image till it looks perfect to you.
>>3156452
Really, one of the big issues here is that I'm trying to make do with just what I have laying around.
While getting something like an oscilloscope would be nice, as it stands, I would have no other use for it and would just be wasting money.
Considering that, as another anon said, neither of the two were ever intended to be used for driving anything and were only there to further derive composite and chroma from, it would be no surprise that they're off. Really do wonder how the same encoder can vary so differently between consoles, as some have apparently had great luck with the 94 being able to output to a TV directly.
Would you have any suggestions for such an amplifier that I could mess around with? As it stands, all the trips back and forth, disassembling and reassembling circuits is a real bother, and a way to adjust things on the fly or at least without needing to take everything apart would be nice.
I wonder if lifting the pins to remove any possible load the filter stage may be putting on them, and just pulling directly from them would change anything. Something I'd like to avoid as it would would remove composite and s-video output in the process, but it's not like this is my only SNES.
>>3155949
This mod is pretty awful
There are better alternatives that im too lazy to look for right now
>>3156351
Obvious image tilt?
>>3154412
I think the problem is that you were such a phenomenal douchebag that you managed to develop enough of a persona that someone started impersonating you on an anonymous image board.
Also, Jesus, like 70% of the posts in these threads are you. I'm starting to agree with all the assholes that say these threads are pointless.
I'm the life of this thread.
Bow to my superior intellect, modifications, cables, general poorness, and my beloved shadow mask.
I'm optimized fools.
>>3156328
>>3156525
oh i see it now. I dont think a remote would fix that. I dont really know what im talking about btw. Fixing rotation requires turning the metal sliders on the yoke. also see some pin cushion can be adjusted maybe with a pot on the pcb inside the tv. Hopefully someone else can give you a less retarded guide.
>>3155774
too bad you stayed and posted 50 more times.
these threads need to die if youre going to be the authority here.
I propose we all just go to shmups if we care about talking about CRT
Throw your aperture grills out unless you like 480i.
They're un-optimized.
>>3153482
bad convergence is bad
i thought you were handy with CRTs?
>>3156664
we need George Foreman Grill technology in our crts.
>>3156675
Those products aren't optimized.
The lines between are a little too wide for my preference.
I much prefer cheap grills those look like they might be quality or something.
>>3155481
It is a Sony PVM 14-M2U. I have the sound running through a Yamaha RX-V373 for even more immersion (also used for my Technics turntable) And I would say it totally is the best way to play (especially at night).
>>3156665
>bad convergence is bad.
>I thought you were handy with CRTs?
Along the right hand side?
This screen is small enough that I never notice while playing, and fixing it on my 20L5 took ages. If I played it as close as I usually take my photos, I'd work on it. But at 14" it hardly matters that it's a little bit off - my 20L5 was far worse.
>>3156683
I rotated it on my 20L5 but only after I fucked things up by getting a convergence strip piece of permalloy stuck to the inside of the yoke, which I had to take it apart to fix. I would have dealt with it were it not for the convergence issue I caused requiring me to head to the yoke anyway.
>>3156710
Oh hey, I use a RX-V365 amp/receiver with some really old Jensen speaker cabinets - it doubles as my RGB switch (over the component and s-video inputs). How's yours treating you?
>>3156813
whoops, meant component and composite video inputs.
>adjust the yoke
Why is this recommended so often? I haven't found a CRT that couldn't fix a tilted image issue with a combination of its geometry controls.
Holy shit that thing is positively heavy
>>3156929
You're fucking retarded
>>3156954
21"?
im jealous
shitty 17" here
>>3156929
>what is convergence
>>3157026
24" Sony FW900. My 21" PVM seems light next to this one. And I live on the third fucking floor
>>3157040
be careful anon
small bump can fuck up the convergence/purity
=[
show it to us in action when you get it up there
>>3157040
>mfw still waiting for a callback for a fw900
>>3156328
a lot of flat sonys have a tilt control in regular options. But you might also need to adjust v-angle.
AFAIK, only a genuine sony remote can trigger service menu. But also many sony models work even if not the exact model.
>>3156757
That's actually what I attempted to do first, but the only THS7314 I had laying around was one that I believe was fried, so I need to order another before I can attempt that. Without a doubt, it'd be the better option, given it would not only allow for a more compact installation but also proper amplification across all three at once.
>>3157059
actually got the call just now, pick is tomorrow. 3h round trip tho...
Mfw FW-900 will do 2560x1600 at 70Hz progressive.
and 2880x1800 at 60Hz (endure 60Hz like a real man)
any other CRTs sync higher than 121Khz?
resolution wise the IBM T221 LCD is still the highest 16:10 display. (i want one but it says it requires 2 DVI-D connectors how is this possible?)
>>3157256
I've seen that, my video card in 2008 had two DVI ports. I guess they decided they needed more bandwidth than what was available at time of introduction.
>>3157256
http://www.cnet.com/products/iiyama-vision-master-pro-510-crt-monitor-22/specs/
answering my own question
as far as i know this is the highest res consume CRT
it can do 2728x2046 at 60Hz
Are Samsung TVs good?
>>3157395
Same as any non Japense TV new or old. Pretty bad overall but good for the price.
>>3153569
who's that qt with the tripod
>>3157402
What about Sanyo? Seems like they make quite a bit of the jungle and processing chips other manufacturers use but how are their sets?
And RCA?
>>3157412
Huh?
>>3157508
It depends. Sony often used their own tubes.
The chassis can play a big part.
>>3157050
Posting from my FW900.
Boner won't go down.
Text and web seems better on my LCD, but Lightroom and vidya are terrific on this behemoth.
>>3154412
shouldn't post the OP under a trip, though. people may filter you out
>>3157547
what resolution?
my pc crt has 2 knobs inside that affect vertical and horizontal sharpness.
>>3157585
You're right, I guess ill turn it off.
>>3156328
Is there any way to fix the picture shifted to the right? There used to be knobs for this on older TV's but this one doesn't have a setting for it in the menu or a knob.
Its not too noticeable on some games, but on others I'lll have a bar on the lefthand side.
Yes I know the tv is dirty.
>>3157605
You have the remote?
Should be able to optimize your display with the service menu however you trigger it with that remote.
>>3157605
regular menu if you're lucky
hidden service menu most of the time
proprietary service connector and dongle if you're unlucky
unadjustable rom setting at worst.
>>3157593
I'm running 2304x1440 at 80Hz
It was quite a bitch to setup since I'm not even using VGA, but BNC (didn't have any VGA cable on hand).
But I feel like a CAD engineer in the late 90s
Also that game is shit unless you use a walkthrough and even then
prepare to be disappointed
Serious question guys
What are my chances of ordering a new in box (19-22") PC CRT and it getting to me without getting fucked up convergence and or purity?
Also I am very serious about my displays, I can't stand even the tiniest issue with convergence because I come from my BVM with perfect convergence, and spent hours adjusting it, so im very perceptive to these kinds of issues.
I know its blasphemy I'm considering just buying a 20" 1600x1200 S-IPS LCD to avoid issues/wasting money.
>>3157674
CRT's are terrible at actually displaying an image. You buy a CRT for their look not for them displaying an image well.
Your best bet is a professional monitor not a PC monitor. At least then you have many options for adjustment via a service menu.
>I know its blasphemy I'm considering just buying a 20" 1600x1200 S-IPS LCD to avoid issues/wasting money.
Why?
>>3157678
hurr durr CRTs don't have advantages hurr durr
>>3157698
There's a reason they're not used anymore. And I didn't say they have no advantage, champ.
>>3157678
LCDs cannot have geometry, convergence, or purity issues.
As far as I'm concerned that's the only advantage, besides CRTs have more charm in my opinion. Reminds me of better times.
You're saying to not buy a CRT, but also not buy an IPS LCD?
This is for browsing and HD content, my B(roadcast)VM is better than any P(rofessional)VM for SD content.
>>3157706
they have a better picture for 240p retro games.
>>3157715
Not really. They just have all the image quality defects that come with using a CRT.
>>3157714
>You're saying to not buy a CRT, but also not buy an IPS LCD?
I'm more confused by the odd resolution.
>This is for browsing and HD content, my B(roadcast)VM is better than any P(rofessional)VM for SD content.
Again the resolution.
Just saying the PVM L5 is better than most BVMs.
>>3157031
>what is impersonation
>>3157508
Samsung tube in my apple monitor looks great. Fuck you.
Only the worst of the worst in consumer CRTs are shit without redeeming qualities.
>>3157638
Don't listen to him.
Look inside the chassis for a vertical hold or 'H. POS' (horizontal position) trimmer. Even my TV with an OSD still had internal trimmers for that.
>>3157714
>All BVMs are created equal and none are PVM tubes with more user-adjustible controls
I will say that a BVM would be nicer and easier to adjust, but saying that no PVM can possibly be as good as any BVM is just wrong.
</rant>
>>3157725
Eh, only because it can handle higher resolutions - Though most of the BVMs that are not top-of-the-top are on par with it besides configurability where they easily beat the L5s.
>>3157678
There's a reason that color-graders and professional photo manipulators/opticians used CRTs so long after LCDs captured the consumer market.
>>3157725
Because you can't get a 2048 x1536 IPS LCD for cheap is it that strange to want a large res?
1600x1200 is not strange for an LCD of CRT
>PVM 20L5 is better than most BVMs
the fuck are you smoking. maybe it has like an equal amount of lines but remember PVMs have like shit for adjustments while BVMs have nearly every thing adjustable at the press of a button
>>3157785
You can still make those adjustments internally on the L5 and any other PVM. It's just not as easy.
>>3157791
Okay, what is your BVM?
Keep in mind that higher TVL models have even more ridiculously huge spaces between lines in 240p. For 480i content, maybe.
>>3157783
>Eh, only because it can handle higher resolutions - Though most of the BVMs that are not top-of-the-top are on par with it besides configurability where they easily beat the L5s.
I disagree. I'd take a PVM L5 over any BVM expect for the later BVMs in the 2000s.
>There's a reason that color-graders and professional photo manipulators/opticians used CRTs so long after LCDs captured the consumer market.
Because it took a bit before the other tech caught up and/or became viable.
CRTs got out performed. That's why they're legacy equipment now ion the industry.
>>3157785
>Because you can't get a 2048 x1536 IPS LCD for cheap is it that strange to want a large res?
The resolution is as random as you can get.
>>3157810
I'm going to assume you're a child or brown. Your reading comprehension is terrible.
>>3157769
flatters have like 0 chance of having a pot, even more with brands.
I'll give you 0.1%
>>3156328
Look up the service manual for you CRT model and figure out how to get into the service menu. You might be able to fix it there.
>>3157831
Look it's mine had it
he has at least an 80% chance of having it
>>3157848
is it a brand
Why are we even talking about aperture grilles anyway
>>3157815
Nice one
>tfw you'll never win the lottery and buy a CRT manufacturing plant
>>3157871
Feel free to quote where I said any of the shit you think I said.
>>3157876
The part where you called CRTs terrible for displaying an image but wonder why someone would buy a 1600x1200 (a very common PC CRT resolution) LCD monitor.
youre super angry for some reason :^)
>>3157891
>:^)
Confirmed child. Still provides no quote.
Stick to /v/.
>>3157093
Nice bro, I'm jealous.
>>3157904
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>3157678
>CRT's are terrible at actually displaying an image
>Why?
question an LCD while shitting on CRT
I don't get it.
I like this 4chan attitude refusing to acknowledge anything until you specify everything to a microscopic level
20L5 guy does it all the time.
It's actually a symptom of autism and aspergers to not be able to understand what other people mean unless they specify commands with absolute precision. Essentially not being able to think or imagine what the other person might mean without it being clearly spelled out for you.
>hostile attitude
>stick to /v/
I remember about 6 months ago when you didn't get shit like this and could have civil conversations on this board.
>>3157968
Those quote have what to do with the post?
Oh you're going on about autism now. Ok, champ.
>>3157974
Hmm are you trying to get me to keep posting or something? Since this has become a shitpost-off I thought I should tell you.
Anon I realize you were talking about the resolution exclusively and not the idea of an IPS display.
It's quite funny to me that through all this you never clarified or admitted you don't know anything about standard resolutions.
What resolution did you expect 1440x1080? Which resolutions don't seem random to you?
>>3157987
I get that you're like 15 years old or something.
What I don't get is how you're so fucking ignorant and dumb to not understand that just because a resolution is "standardized" doesn't mean it's well supported.
Idk even know who is making 1600x1200p monitors anymore.
>>3157801
Show me a IPS LCD with the same black levels. And also, they aren't outperformed in color accuracy - they were only more expensive to manufacture. They are legacy equipment because they aren't replaceable should they fail.
LCDs have lots of good characteristics - but claiming they are better in every way for professional uses is wrong.
>>3157996
No one said anything about well supported
the damage control is hilarious.
in fact you acted like you had never heard of either of those very common resolutions
partly because you don't know shit about monitors and I realized you were spewing shit out of your ass from the very first post.
Just lets leave it at this. You won't admit your ignorance so I'll just quit egging you on.
>>3157808
Thank you for stopping posting as me.
Bang & Olufsen uses a high quality CRT. Not sure what the actual tube manufacturer is, so I'd love it if someone can check.
Some consumer sets could use the same tubes as PC monitors to increase quality. I don't have a large sample set of CRT screens, so I can't check how much this was actually done.
>>3157831
You mean flatscreen tubes?
I bet they do. PC monitors do, and all my TV's of every age have had trimmers. I think my old flat Apex TV had them, too.
>>3158015
>Show me a IPS LCD with the same black levels. And also, they aren't outperformed in color accuracy - they were only more expensive to manufacture. They are legacy equipment because they aren't replaceable should they fail.
"Pure" black no. Any contrast test done to ansi spec? Hell see virtually any LCD made.
>>3158020
>No one said anything about well supported
>This is for browsing and HD content
Should stop kid.
The post chain is very easily read on 4chan. Not sure if you're used to reddit or something.
>>3157848
Again, fuck you, imposter piece of shit.
>>3157862
>>3157865
Looks like I thanked you too soon.
>>3156864
>do you hace experience cleaning them out?
Either compressed air to just blow out a bit of it nd stir it up, or preferably unscrewing it and using compressed air on the boards directly.
Not had to do it to mine yet, but I work at a place that repairs speakers and audio equipment and that's what we always do.
>>3158032
Not that anon but those resolutions are pretty much well supported. Hell for browsing you could use nearly any resolution and be fine.
>>3158054
>HD content
Good luck with that.
>>3157968
>It's actually a symptom of autism and aspergers to not be able to understand what other people mean unless they specify commands with absolute precision.
It's also symptomatic of more common complaints, like being argumentative on the internets. No need to over-medicalise everything :)
>>3153520
>[multiformat sets] require separate flyback windings for different [signal formats]
Source? That sounds like utter BS to me.
Also, Amiga monitors were not multisync AFAIK
>>3158053
Thanks dude. I figured that's all I had to do.
A friend heard that I'm a fan of evacuated glass tubes, and sent me a present - a very well taken care of BVM-20F1U!
>>3158284
While the set normally only accepts RGB, it also included this addon card which accepts composite NTSC, PAL, YCbCr, SDI 4:2:2, and even composite SDI (the horror).
>>3158292
Unlike the 14 inch BVMs, the expansion cards all slot neatly into either side of the tube.
One oddity of this unit is that as a space saving measure, it includes no controls - instead, it uses an external RS-485 remote unit that can control up to 32 monitors in a daisy chain. I don't have the remote, so I am currently limited to the YCbCr input.
>>3158302
The controller unit BKM-10R is gonna run you atleast $50 with shipping from what ive seen. Both of my BVMs came with it so it wasnt an issue for me
>>3157275
You can go even higher with those monitors if you are a bad enough dude to endure 50 Hz.
What's the number of TV lines on typical consumer trinitrons?
Hey /crt/, hopefully you guys can help me out. My brother just donated me a Trinitron; after hooking it up I realized that the monitor is lopsided and the edge of the screen is cut off. I tried opening the TV up to see if there was a a screw missing or something, but everything seems fine (to the untrained eye anyways). Maybe you guys could help me troubleshoot and find out what the problem is? I can open it back up and take pictures if needed.
Question; on PVM each time I set the V and H then shut it off it reverts back to its default setting.
It saves my user preset for VOL and other changes I have made and the yellow light is on, it saves my calibrations as well, but my screen positioning always goes back to default after a power off and on.
Is there something I am missing here to save my updated H and V settings?
>>3158284
I must admit I'm extremely jelly. But I'll live with only the L5 and 1944Q, I suppose, since I'm probably never going to be getting a free BVM like that.
>>3158302
If you feel like experimenting, you could probably use a RS232-to-RS485 adapter to connect it to your PC serial port and start throwing random bytes at it until something works.
Someone really should hook a remote to his serial port and start logging input while hitting buttons so we can make our own cheaper hacks. I would, but I have no remote. My 20L5 does have a connector for one, though.
>>3158424
If it's rotated, you need to rotate the yoke. Not easy, and it sounds like you don't know what you're doing at all, but that's how you fix it.
If the picture goes off the side of the screen, you can probably find a trimmer dial (potentiometer) on the board somewhere to move it - unless it has an on-screen display, in which case you can probably just do it from the service menu. Find a service manual for it.
>>3158059
Sources are the fact that my 20L5 has a relay to switch between flyback windings for it's different resolutions, and a friend who built a heathkit TV in the 1970s (and was a verizon technician since 2000, and a Bell Atlantic technician since the Bell System was broken up in 1984) said that that was how he thought my L5 probably worked.
>>3156351
image is slightly tilted, left side has underscan and geometry issues.
>>3156358
NICK-NICK-NICK-NA-NICKNICKNICK-NICKALODEON fuck it's loud.
>>3156657
>>3156683
>>3156929
it has tilt in the setup menu, got that figured out.
>>3157024
nope. he was 100% right in this case
>>3157395
i have a 2006 model, it is a slim crt and had the worst geometry and linearity issues with 240p out of any set I've had so far.
>>3157419
my little 20" sanyo flat has been great for years, best picture but the color isn't great. good blacks though. The set on the right in my first post is the sanyo.
>>3157605
HPOS in the service menu on all 3 of my sets. sanyo can do it with no remote, look up your service manual.
>>3157836
I did after I posted, ordered a og remote so I can give it a go.
thanks for the replies guys. I have a 32" kv32-fv310 in the shed and am going to muscle that inside next. It has a cracked housing though, I think it was dropped :/
>>3158661
Oh, also, the 15khz flyback whine goes away the moment the relay clicks into 31khz (480p) mode.
Even if it turns out we are wrong, there is still clearly different deflection circuitry and something is giving the transformer a different resonant frequency response somehow, which is very unusual.
>>3158648
Well, the L5 has advantages too, in that it's multisync - the F1 is stuck with 240p/480i. I don't have any gen6+ systems though.
>>3158651
I do, I already have one ordered, unfortunately reverse engineering a protocol by only sending things is a bit hard, so I'll probably need to get the remote too.
The closest I could find is a similar Sony VCR protocol: ftp://ftp.sgi.com/sgi/video/rld/vidpage/s9pin.html
38.4k, 8 data bits with odd parity (!), and unfortunately variable length data and checksums that make sending random bytes unlikely to work.
>>3158705
Damn.
Well, let us know when you get the remote - and PLEASE do start logging it! It'd be awesome to be able to hack one together.
A quick picture of the beast in its new home. My cat is happy to have a CRT again to sit on
>>3158676
Again
That anon doesn't know what convergence is
We have a MASSIVE problem with people talking out their ass here
Very disgusting
>>3158947
That poor desk.
>>3158962
Pretty sturdy actually. Also, this is a temporary setup. I don't have a house for the time being.
Why are we posting in a thread made by a tripfag
Any thoughts on a Sony KV-32FV16, it's flatscreen.
>>3159187
Its fine
20L5 guy will tell you its shit though.
Hold on, you're telling me tv stations like the news and other broadcasting places get rid of these tvs for FREE? People keep saying these are the best for playing retro games, but are they any good for the 6th gen consoles?
>>3159281
They just dumped them because they're worthless for their application.
Not sure why you'd want one for 6th gen unless you play PS2 garbage mainly.
>>3159287
hopefully i can score one from here
The scanlines of a BVM or PC CRT look nicer than most CRT TVs despite being more obvious.
>got fw900
>was in storage for 8 (!) years
>only nanoscratches, expected
>werks
>too bright, retrace lines errywhere
>open and inspect
>no G2 pot
turns out you need to leave it on for +30mins and do "Image restore"...
pretty sure it's more than 30, it seemed like it took it sweet time...
at least I know this fucker is shielded as a tank.
>>3159325
There are a LOT of geo and convergence settings, and to make matters worse, with laptop I get shitty image Q, with ghosting. Dunno if cause is laptop (have to do DVI-VGA), or the cable (it is a vga-bnc tho). Probably both...
dem sweet colors tho, also I have that hdfury lying around... gonna come in handy.
and ultimately, the price was right.
>>3159347
nv 8600m gs
will try later with desktop hd6870
>>3158676
>it has tilt in the setup menu, got that figured out.
Congratulations!
I wish my 14L4 had tilt setting as well.
Noob question /vr/, will the following setup cause any problems, and am I forgetting anything essential?
>NSTC SNES
>PAL CRT w/ RGB compatable SCART
>RGB SCART Cable for SNES
I know there are more optimal Sony PVM's for a monitor, but I can't see any way of getting one without paying 150+EURO to have one shipped over from the States. I just want to know if this will work. (Sorry I'm pretty new to this stuff)
>>3159325
>>3159331
>>3159392
Give it plenty of time to settle down before you go tweaking. My IBM P260 looked like fricaseed shit after 5 years out of use but came good in the end.
Also, do yourself a favour and look into WinDAS if you want to adjust G2 or advanced geometry/convergence. There are actually just as many, if not more, parameters if you go that route. It can be a bitch to set up though so be warned. Tons of fun though.
Don't have much experience with crts and wanted to ask, I have a magnavox CD130MW8 13". Isthis a decent crt for retro consoles?
>>3159421
probably not, its a little small and appears to be mono only. Look for a set with Component inputs, those seem to have the best overall picture in my experience. who knows though plug it in and see if you like it or not, I have been through 4 crt's I just get rid o the old one when I find a better one, any crt with decent geometry is better than a flat panel hd set.
why do we constantly have posts like this
its so fucking simple
NON HD= GOOD
COMPONENT/S-VIDEO/RGB=GOOD
those 2 things arent hard to remember or find out
fucking put it at the top of the thread every time
>>3159287
>a 1080i monitor was worthless for a 1080i broadcasting station
Whatever, dood.
>>3159287
>PS2 is mostly 480p
It isnt
these monitors are just fine for PS2
>>3159401
-the tv might not support 60hz (very rare but does happen for low grade noname models; brands are usually fine)
-you must use a scart cable made for US super nintendo / JP super famicom. You can't use a PAL scart cable (like the official one that was bundled with the console in france) on a US/JP SNES/SFC console.
you should be okay.
>>3159447
if he uses scart rgb he'll be fine.
Do monitors like these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009728
truly make CRT obsolete?
>>3159450
>>3159453
>BVM-20x1n
>1080i
>480p
>>3159459
>100,000,000:1
