What's the most friendly game to help you learn japanese ?
Look for games with Furigana above the kanji
i think zeldas all use furigana
lol give up
Draque.
a lot of retro games use kana only due to space limitations. i was planning on playing pokemon FR since there's a great series about japanese grammar using that game out youtube.
>>3088172
Pokémon is pretty good imo. Not much kanji and if there is, it's very simple and <5 strokes
>>3088332
here's that channel i mentioned if you're interested. pretty good study tool imo.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UqIZlupjIQ3vxcAOEoNug
>>3088264
>But I readed in Remembering Kanji that you've got to learn kanjis as soon as possible
Furigana are little kana characters that are placed above or below kanji so you can read them. They're there specifically to help people(usually children) read and pronounce kanji they don't know.
>>3088172
You can't learn Japanese.
None
If you want to get anywhere at all you are going to have to study like a motherfucker
>>3088339
Fucking show has been around for a year and they're still stuck at kana, shaking my head.
Try out Pokemon. It's literally made for kids so you shouldn't have a problem with it.
Great idea...If you want to be able to tell the store clerk, "In the year 200x a super robot named Mega Man was created." Other than that, go study like a real student and stop trying to take short-cuts. I'm a language instructor and this mentality drives me nuts (especially with the "Naru-tards")
Furthermore, Kanji is your final mastery after everything else.
(Vocabulary>Grammar>Kana>Syntax>Kanji)
So many students get so hung-up on kanji just because they think it's exotic or that it makes them cool. But you need to focus more on daily/actual communication.
Just a heads up but for beginners reading manga might be an easier first step. It's an issue with games because the ones aimed towards kids are usually kana only, which is good for kids but I've actually found that back when I was starting the lack of Kanji only made it harder for me.
As far as easy games go, the Tales of series is a great place to start. There's the occasional conversation where it might get hard to understand but it's good practice and great for fantasy words. Also, mining vocabulary from one Tales games is likely to make playing a whole bunch of them easier.
Just another small tip for manga, google Kanji Tomo and thank me later.
Dedicate yourself with legitimate studying of the language.
You can't learn japanese from media itself, you need to actually, seriously study it.
Start actually taking Japanese classes. Or study yourself like there is no tomorrow.
After you qualify for at least JLPT N5, which means you can read hiragana, katakana and about 150 basic kanji, know basics of grammar and have a vocabulary of about 300 words, try simple kana-only games like Pokemon.
After that, work on your grammar, vocabulary and kanji at try more and more text-heavy games. Super Robot Wars, for example. They have pretty basic dialogues you should have no trouble understanding once you qualify for JLPT N3.
But remember, that you can't learn language just playing games. You need to actually study and study hard. I highly encourage anyone who wants to learn Japanese, though, becaule learning foreing languages is really fun and worth time and money spent on it.
>>3088172
Find games without furigana, but without too much kanji.
The Slayers games on Saturn (there's PSX versions too) did it for me. Just the right amount of kanji for me at the time.
>>3088654
>Kanji is your final mastery after everything else.
you're a bad language instructor
Would definitely recommend Gen 1 of Pokemon if you're a beginner. The script is all in basic Japanese. Taking your time with it and stopping to look up any words you don't understand really helps expand vocab and commit hiragana/katakana to memory in one fell swoop. Not really sure what to suggest if you're looking for more on the kanji side of things, though. Books dedicated to that sort of thing, probably. Have fun OP.
>>3088654
Yeah. Nothing will ever help you learn a language like actually speaking it to other people on a consistent basis with native speakers. Rattling off memorized phrases is nice when you want a service, but it doesn't help in an organic conversation.
Media consumption can help supplement learning, but the learning process is only reinforced through practice and the best practice is using a language as it was intended to be used.
>>3088654
Nah, you need to know kanji to be able to do everyday communcations. Many words are basically crafted out of kanji (sinitic vocabulary), knowing the kanji will make remembering those words easier.
>>3088654
No, you fucking retard. If you actually are a language instructor and not just a dumb kid, you're really ruining people's chances.
The single most important step in learning a new language is consuming compelling content. It doesn't matter if that's playing fucking video games, watching Jdramas, trying to talk to natives, or reading meaningless books full of sample sentences that you'll never see in the real world.
Obviously, you don't bite off more than you can chew and start reading ancient literature as a beginner, but anything you can stick with because you're interested in it is fantastic learning material. Base your study on what you actually want to read, not thousands of terms that you'll barely see.
http://japanese-lesson.com/index.html
Learn Japanese Online for Free!
ジャパニーズレッスンドットコム
>>3088828
You DO need kanji, but you need to know how all the rest of the language works first. I know a dozen or two kanji just from playing jap games, but I couldn't craft a single sentence in Japanese.
>>3088916
>The single most important step in learning a new language is consuming compelling content.
Videogames are pretty fucking far from compelling content, unless you want to end up sounding like some hardcore anime nerd.
Just go to int/
>>3088804
You can actually learn a language just with games, movies and similar stuff.
A language that's not japanese though.
Also it's too easy to forget everything in just one or two years without practise. I took two years of japanese classes and i can't remember anything. I learned more than 300 kanji and now i can't recognize more than 20 or 30. And all that being a full weaboo.
>>3088172
Don't play a video game to learn Japanese, read a book or take a class. Better yet, don't learn Japanese at all if your only intention is to play video games and watch anime, you weeaboo faggot.
>>3088937
>>You can actually learn a language just with games, movies and similar stuff.
>A language that's not japanese though.
No, you can learn any language with games. The only difference is that Japanese has a higher barrier to entry than most.
>Also it's too easy to forget everything in just one or two years without practise.
No shit. What was the point in even trying if you then spend a year actively avoiding the language?
>I took two years of japanese classes
A terrible idea, classes are incredibly simplistic to stop people dropping out.
>I learned more than 300 kanji
Case in point. 2 weeks of work at a fairly relaxed pace will get you that far, I'm talking around 30 minutes a day.
>And all that being a full weaboo.
Who didn't look at anything in Japanese for a couple of years, okay.
>>3088734
Kana works for *Japanese* children because they actually know a lot of kanji already they just don't know how to write them. To a foreigner who doesn't know kanji and barely knows any words the kana are nearly worthless.
>>3088954
I watch animu every week but that doesn't mean you're gonna remember all those kanjis and grammar. And you can't learn 300 kanjis in two weeks with a "relaxed pace".
I still have hope to learn moon just going to Futaba everyday though.
>>3088968
>And you can't learn 300 kanjis in two weeks with a "relaxed pace".
Yes, you can. I learnt a couple of thousand that way.
You're severely overestimating how much you actually knew, probably because you wasted 2 years on a worthless course. Next you're going to tell me all about how you passed JLPT N5 or something so that proves you were a Japanese master.
Watching anime with English subtitles is literally nothing. You aren't even paying attention to any of the vocab, so you wouldn't be reinforcing anything.
Keep doing nothing and hoping one day you'll magically learn Japanese, dude.
>>3088942
literally this
>>3088942
You sound like an asshole who thinks that every skill needs to be used for a practical purpose or else it's a waste of time.
>>3088984
It wasn't a "course" but 9 hours a week in university. After that two years we were supposed to be at N3 easily. If i didn't learn more japanese in that time it was entirely my fault though.
And by learning kanji i mean learning the on'yomi, kun'yomi, how to write it and how to read it in any case. Maybe i'm just stupid (not even being ironic here) but i'm not capable to do that with 100 kanji in a week at a relaxing pace.
Also if it were so easy you should be able to learn all common kanji in less than 4 months.
>>3088172
MUGENDRAMON UNIMON ARURAUMON
METALGREYMON INSEKIMON CLEARAGUMON
I didn't know the last of each line.
>>3089029
>>And by learning kanji i mean learning the on'yomi, kun'yomi, how to write it and how to read it in any case. Maybe i'm just stupid (not even being ironic here) but i'm not capable to do that with 100 kanji in a week at a relaxing pace.
You don't think you're capable, it's not that you aren't capable.
The first thing to throw out is writing. Most Japs can't write the kanji a couple of years after high school or university. It's a fairly worthless skill that only helps you read handwriting a bit better. You can easily learn 20 kanji a day, you just haven't tried.
Kanji are not an issue. They make reading a little slower to start with, but the benefits they give outside of that are enormous. Vocab is the issue. You have to learn 20,000+ words with no relation to your native tongue. A few thousand characters made up of a couple of hundred primitives are nothing in comparison.
N3 after 2 years is an absolute joke. 9 hours a week is more than I actually spend studying Japanese, and yet you learned nothing.
>>3088172
アナルモン
>>3088654
You need to learn kana before anything else. Romaji is basically worthless.
I don't think you can learn vocab without inadvertently learning kanji as well, the two are basically tied together. Japanese words are largely made up of kanji and kanji help you understand the meaning of words.
>>3088654
Looks like other anons have already called him out but I'll chime in to say that this is BS... Learn the kana first, that's the most important thing you can do to help yourself learn Japanese.
To the people criticizing the language teacher for saying kanji is unimportant:
He's probably trying to instill basic use of the language to a bunch of lazy students that he sees five hours per week, tops. Getting them able to say basic greetings, order at a restaurant, or ask for directions to the disco really doesn't require many kanji.
To the people who are criticizing OP for wanting to learn Japanese through videogames:
Most people who really learn English do so because of our media. Japanese media is pretty much the only compelling reason to learn the language beyond the basics. You don't need much Japanese to learn martial arts or vacation in Japan.
OP:
Try Madou Monogatari for the Mega Drive. It's for children and has a small child as the protagonist, so the language used is mostly simple.
>>3088179
this is really nice
any other game with furigana?
Pokemon has an option to turn all of the kanjis into hiragana I think
>>3088654
>Kek-ko desssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
>>3089312
I'm not sure about games but a lot of children's manga have furigana. Yotsuba&! is one particular example.
>>3089114
People learn at different speeds and have different aptitudes. Being able to do something doesn't mean everyone can do it.
>>3088172
Since casuals consider visual novels and walking simulators to be games I'd have to say your best bet is Rosetta Stone.
>>3089371
lel rek those weabos
>>3088264
>readed
Might wanna brush up on your english before moving on to something difficult like Japanese.
>>3089371
Rosetta stone teaches kana way late. I don't even know if it goes through kanji I never got that far. If you want to actually learn the language it probably sucks.
It might be better for latin or germanic languages but I can't see it being useful for japanese or other asian languages.
>>3089393
It's bad for everything and overpriced too.
>>3089393
It's no good for romance languages, either. It's just generally shit. You don't learn a language by studying text. You have to speak it, on a regular basis, in conversations. At any level of mastery, this is the best teacher, because you will fuck up and the other person in the conversation can assist you.
But neckbeards can't get over their social anxiety, let alone something like foreign language anxiety, something that affects people who aren't afflicted by anxiety in other situations. So shit like rosetta stone sells.
>>3089632
That makes some sense, but neckbeards can talk in imageboards like this so at least they can learn the language besides pronunciation.
>>3089632
I went on a trip to Italy for a fortnight. I learned more Italian in one week than three years of high school.
>>3089640
This is so true
>>3089640
You won't be able to actually say what you need to say in a conversation, even disregarding poor pronunciation unless you converse, even if you know how to say it and know what the person is saying. Conversation is a whole different beast. It is not something you learn on a sheet of paper. It is something you learn by doing it.
Learning the characters and words of a new language doesn't actually give you the capacity to communicate or listen to and comprehend a language. There is no substitute for conversational practice. It's a nice place to start if you just want to learn the different characters but it's not worth paying for when there's plenty of free and just as effective alternatives. And at the end of the day you can jerk off over your knowledge of kanji but you will still shit the bed if anyone asks you a basic question in Japanese if you haven't had conversational experience.
Consumption of media is always a supplement, never a substitute.
>>3089986
So I should just jump into conversation then?
>>3088931
> but I couldn't craft a single sentence in Japanese.
Yet you are giving advice?
>>3089986
>but you will still shit the bed if anyone asks you a basic question in Japanese if you haven't had conversational experience.
And people who just practice conversation will shit the bed if you give them a basic sentence with kanji in it, or if you use a slightly difficult word in conversation. You need to spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on all aspects if you want to get good at the language.
If your only reason for learning japanese is to try to hit on japanese cumdumpsters then sure you should just focus on conversation
>>3090040
you should just focus on wearing shades and playing up your blackness
I always hear this meme "oh no, don't learn Japanese from games, you'll sound like a goofy shounen hero" like, nigger, if that wasn't the easiest shit to tone down after doing the hard part which is picking up the language.
>>3088172
You're not going to learn Japanese from playing video games. If you already know Japanese then you might expand your vocabulary a little, but that's about it.
Seriously, go pirate a fucking book or course if you want to learn.
>>3089986
I found that brushing up your conversation skills once your comprehension skills are on point is pretty much effortless, took me like a couple of months after finding a conversational partner.
>>3090139
Did you ever learn a language in your life? A "fucking book" will be over in a couple of weeks and leave you with some grammar pointers and 200-400 essential words and that's it, you won't "know" the language after finishing it, or even after finishing 10.
To actually become proficient you need much more than that, you'll need to know thousands of words and have a shit ton of exposure, which is something only exposure to the language itself can give you. And you will need a shit ton it, and it doesn't really matter where it comes from.
>>3090230
Yes, several languages. And I never used video games to learn I language I had no familiarity with. Pirate a fucking book or course and learn the language first, then do whatever you want. Thinking you're going to learn Japanese by playing video games and watching anime is idiotic.
出来ない
>>3088734
This program Kanji Tomo is amazing, Thanks.
>>3089012
>You sound like an asshole who thinks that every skill needs to be used for a practical purpose or else it's a waste of time.
If a skill is not practical for you, that means you wont practice it as often, which will make it harder to learn and much easier to forget.
>>3090040
>Yet you are giving advice?
Considering that I'm bilingual on top of being able to read kana and some kanji, I'd like to think that I know more than the average 4chan poster about learning languages.
>>3090040
>And people who just practice conversation will shit the bed if you give them a basic sentence with kanji in it,
And how do you tell a person was speaking a kanji or a kana in a sentence while having a conversation with them?
>>3090457
why would pride yourself on stupid shit. i know more than the average 4chan user period because look at the stupid shit they post
>>3090404
this
>>3090457
You should really shut up about subjects you know nothing about.
>>3090462
Hahaha what?
in my experience, it takes study and immersion to pick up a language. while Japanese is difficult, there's a huge advantage in the immersion aspect due to a vast japanese media. games/manga/anime etc. can definitely help you absorb the language. with that said, you still need study to become competent, especially when it comes to grammar (e.g. wa & ga).
romaji are like training wheels. they're useful for familiarizing yourself with Japanese, understanding how it's pronounced, and learning kana. but once you've mastered hiragana & katakana, you should drop romaji (just like you should take training wheels off a bike once you learn to ride). once you've got the syllabary script down, you've got a foothold in Japanese (especially since kanji often have kana guides written on top). from there, study/immersion/practice is what you need to git gud. there are no shortcuts, and anyone who claims you can achieve fluency in 30 days is bullshitting.
I don't know if this would work with everyone, but for study, I would take japanese text, run it through online translators and dictionaries, and try to translate it into smooth english. I know it sounds weird but it helped me get familiar with it in an organic way.
>>3090457
>being able to read kana
Are you actually bragging on the Internet about knowing something that takes a day to learn?
>>3088931
no
noooooo
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>>3090756
kana takes more than a day to learn. you could get vaguely familiar with them in a short amount of time, but it'll take weeks to read them quickly without hesitation and without getting stuck on the less common ones.
>>3088942
don't /only/ play video games to learn anything. i use video games to study japanese because they're interesting and it's an immediately rewarding way to study. same with japanese tv. reading a book or taking a class on their own is just about as bad, if not worse, because nobody in japan learnt it that way.
>>3088172
I copied down the full text, then the romaji for things manually. It was a good way to pick up on kana. Shounen jump books are great for this. I had hiragana and katakana downpat in middle school copying down everything in some Shaman King and the Ocarina of Time managa.
When it comes to games, action games and platformers tend to lack any cause and effect, plus the text is usually there and gone. I'd recommend a simple puzzle game or something lacking a lot of speaking characters. Rpgs are find for picking up basic terminology. Pokemon on 3ds has a kanji vs. Full hiragana/kanji option if you choose to play in Japanese. I wholeheartedly recommend writing it down by hand though. If your kanjo vocab is piss (which it is), it's a great way to catch on to basic grammar.
>>3090772
best way to learn kana is just to hammer it out in an evening just through hard memorization, then quizzing yourself frequently everyday until you memorize it completely. kana's probably the easiest part of the language.
>>3090768
Obviously. I doubt that guy can read them fluently without hesitation anyway.
these threads are always hung up on Kanji when it's the stupidest shit to learn. making combinations of them to form words, on the other hand, is really hard
>>3088931
>Videogames are pretty fucking far from compelling content
You're saying this on a video game board?
>>3090783
I'm one to learn best througg muscle memory. Catching on to things I write over and over, like repetitive terms (i.e. furyoku) helps me notice trends and phrases I can look up as well and pick up a few kanji along the way.
>>3090804
I have a bad habit of responding to things without following the whole chain of comments. I see what you mean now, knowing kana is basic and not bragworthy at all. I'm probably farther along than him.
ridiculous teaching methods are a major reason people get frustrated and quit.
>>3088654
You say that but I started learning Japanese through games 15 years ago and I'm JLPT2... It's not a bad thing do, but it's not going to teach you exclusively. You're a shitty teacher if you don't think any and all immersion is going to help
>>3088264
>But I readed
>>3088172
SRW series would be perfect so long as you play an English one first. They all use the exact same menu layout so you can still play the games with no knowledge of Japanese whatsoever allowing you to practice while you play without it hindering your progression.
>>3090457
>Considering that I'm bilingual on top of being able to read kana and some kanji
So fucking what? Japanese is going to be my 4th known language once I'm done studying it in a few years.
And by studying I mean sitting in front of a book/computer screen reading, writing and memorizing a ton of words, kanji and grammar rules before even attempting to create sentences by myself.
You do that every day for a few hours, and you'll eventually actually learn whatever language it is that you want to learn.
tl;dr: you're full of shit and you're trying to fool other people into your bullshit
>>3090852
I've been studying for 6 years and I'm already N2. So I think you can just shut up about it, やめニルをください as we say in 日本. And I'm not some japanese anime obsessed otaku nerd, I can read pretty much any classical work with my level. Also I'll be N1 (JLPT) in about a year.
>>3090446
What if I want to use it for fun?
Saying somebody shouldn't bother learning Japanese if they're just going to use it for anime and video games is like saying somebody shouldn't bother learning to draw if they're only going to use it for drawing Sonic fanart on deviantart. Maybe it can be seen as a waste, but if that person enjoys it then I don't see any reason for them to give a shit.
>>3089986
I wasn't talking specifically about japanese but i must say i myself learnt a language without using face to face conversation.
I probably can't use it in social real life situations without spilling spaguetti but i can read books and watch movies and that's more than enough for me.
I understand Japanese and want you to know Japanese culture.
90 or so posts on and i still know little, i was really excited when i saw this thread.
trying to sum up what was posted i got thinking, how do kids learn a language, very small steps, first you learn things around you and from there you broaden your perspective, would it be an idea just to sticky my whole room and go from there?
>>3091190
This thread is a slurry of misinformation and terrible advice from people who don't even know Japanese, so don't try to get anything out of it.
Here's a guide from /a/ that isn't retarded:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ynwmcFwy0ccT70cVRp-G97fYlcf-GYZ86T62SvQMDdY/pub?embedded=true
You can certainly use games for practice, but /vr/ games aren't exactly the best content to practice your Japanese on.
Old games are either full kana, which is pretty pointless for learning purposes, or low res kanji, which is a pain to read and look up when you're a beginner.
Your best bet would be 90s Japanese PC scene, since the games there are in decent resolution you can read shit without going blind. Lots of good shit on PC98, RPGs, adventure games, eroge, and you can set up a text hook from anex86 emulator so you don't have to waste time looking up kanji by radicals.
>>3091252
tnx anon
>>3091269
Just remember that when people say "Don't use games/manga/anime to learn Japanese", they're only partially right. You shouldn't use them to *learn* Japanese, but it's perfectly fine to use them for practicing and maybe even learn some bits of vocabulary here and there.
You're not going to get anywhere if you don't properly study, but once you have the basics down the best way to retain and improve your Japanese skill is by immersing yourself in the language in all aspects (by which I mean reading, writing, speaking and listening). This includes finding people to have conversations with on the internet, as well as consuming Japanese media. Games, anime and manga are perfectly fine ways to practice your already-existing reading and listening skills, as well as Japanese news, radio, and television. If you go down the games/anime/manga route, you just need to make sure that you don't try to mimic the way that the characters talk when talking in real life.
>>3091281
if you're not going to go to japan and have to use japanese in your daily life, you are never really going to get it.
I've heard good things about Dragon Quest 1 and 2, the SFC remake. Not to mention they're pretty fun.
My problem is I'm making good progress on kanji but I don't feel like I know any verbs. Probably just my fault for being lazy about reading grammar books, but in my defense I hate grammar books.
>>3091285
I mean, sure, you're never going to be close to native-level Japanese unless you live there for at least a few years, as with any other language. But you can still learn it to a reasonable degree where you can consume media and hold some conversations with natives without having to go there, you just need some conversational partners.
>>3091289
Just learn words as you encounter them, grammar books won't teach you much of them anyway.
Every time you see a new word write it down somewhere for review or put it on a flashcard.
>>3091293
it's just hard to ID them when they're conjugated already. Like I pick up on something like たたかえ but if it was some over form of it then I'd be hard-pressed to know what tense it was, if it were positive/negative, etc.
Alright, here's how I vent from zero Japanese knowledge to effortlessly playing video games in less than a year, using mostly video games as my study material.
No fun preparation:
1. Learned both kanas first thing, took like 3 days or so
2. Read all of tae kim guide to Japanese, took close to a month
2.5. Went through some basic vocab in anki at the same time
Real thing:
Text hooked through old PC98 games adding every word I don't know to anki, every single day with no skipping and that's fucking it.
I'm still far from fluent as I get my butt kicked by serious literature and lit wannabe visual novels, mostly because they require the sort of grammar comprehension that would take years of experience with the language to acquire, but any /vr/ game is pretty easy nowadays.
Tools used: anex86, ithvnr, firefox + rikaisama + furigana inserter, Anki + anki realtime import plugin, google.com
Setup looks like this, takes a mouse over to look up a word and a hotkey press to create a flashcard with it in anki.
>>3091928
Damn, that is an exceptionally smooth setup. Props anon.
>>3091928
Text hook works with PC-98 games? Cool.
>>3091928
>but any /vr/ game is pretty easy nowadays.
This. I was pretty surprised going from VNs and literature to games. It's even annoying to play games sometimes because of the hiragana flood.
I don't think I've even played that many PC-98 games, but I'm interested. Is there a rec chart? I'll Google it otherwise, the "/v/" Wiki (since taken over by Reddit) has a small list. Maybe those who are actually competent at Japanese who play /vr/ games should make a beginner's chart, although it's hard to judge difficulty once you're relatively experienced because everything seems easier in hindsight.
>>3088172
I just played MOTHER1. Only uses Kana and simple enough. Hard at first but at the end I wasn't learning a but.
>>3091928
How did you add words in Anki?
>>3092417
>(since taken over by Reddit)
Elaborate please.
>>3092417
Yeah, pretty hard to judge difficulty since all PC98 stuff seems easy nowadays. In general I would say RPGs are a bit easier than visual novels, and the further in time you go the fancier the writing gets.
I personally started with Falcom games, Popful Mail and Legend of Heroes.
My favorite on the platform is probably Toushin Toshi II.
>>3092492
http://rikaisama.sourceforge.net/#realtime_import_help
http://pastebin.com/DgZ84qwk
>>3092712
Pretty sure that post is ironic
>6 years for N2
>やめニルをください
>not some japanese anime obsessed otaku nerd
>>3093170
lol yea I skimmed, it definitely is.
>>3093170
I know people who have studied for 2 or 3 years and they have only N4.
Would it be good practice to play through a game and translate everything yourself?
>>3093996
in my experience, translating is excellent practice. it gives you a natural feel for the language and makes everything more familiar.
>>3093996
Practice for your translations skills, yeah.
Not so much for your reading comprehension, for that reading more instead of spending time translating would be more useful.
