Previous thread - >>2873091
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
>>2899049
what display is that in pic?
>>2899049
Arle a cute!
>>2899097
Mitsubishi Megaview 37 Pro "XC-3730c"
Smaller aperture and a pretty slow shutter speed(1/5)
>>2899114
Best loli.
Looking for a PVM or similar in Toronto area if anyone has one
is there a difinitive wasy to adjust the picture settings on a crt for retro gaming? can I use the same dvd and silly glasses i used on my flat panel?
>>2899284
There are many CRT test patterns available for almost any input method, including most consoles
>>2899159
>XC-3730c
Do you have any moire effect on the sides of the xc37? seems all large sets have this?
its a shame the xrgb-mini has significant input lag
>>2899359
Not him nor the same model, but my large-ish NEC XP29 gets some moire pattern on the sides (visibility varies).
>>2899049
There's a 27" Advent HT2751A on CL in my area, it does 1080i, just wondering do you think it would scale right if I was dumb enough to hook my desktop up to it?
Is this a good transcoder?
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Authority-Component-Transcoder-Audio/dp/B00ASVXAFI
>>2899869
nope.
I don't own one either
>>2899284
240p test suite is the gold standard from what I've seen. Of course, you will need a flashcart to run the rom on the console.
Don't forget to google your exact TV model. You will want to try and find the Service manual, and the Service Menu code. The Service manual will most likely have the correct default settings for the Service Menu, which is important when calibrating. Just keep in mind, you can absolutely break your TV in the Service Menu, so don't play with anything you don't understand.
Will the really high frequency sound my CRT constantly emits damage my hearing? I already have mild tinnitus and don't want to make it worse. It's in the range that oldafags can't hear, and it kinda hurts. I don't know the model of TV, I just picked it up off the roadside.
>>2900089
Not him, but what about emulating it through the Wii?
>>2900114
No clue. Should work well I guess?
Just found out my 48" HD LCD has S-video input. So I unhooked my SNES from my 31" CRT and tried it out.
absolutelydisgusting.jpg is the only way to describe it. I swear to god the game looked better on emulator than it did on the LCD. I noticed the lag on the first jump I did, but everything else looked so horrible that the lag was one of the least terrible things about it. I'm now really glad I spent the time hunting down a CRT.
>>2900096
I doubt it. For hearing damage to take place, you need a loud enough sound over time, or a really loud sound impact. So unless the whine is hitting 90ish decibels(somewhat quieter than a fucking motorcycle), you're fine. A small 5 decibel whine will annoy the shit out of you, but you won't suffer hearing damage.
>>2900000
Nice get
What does /crt/ general think of getting a freebie CRT, and making an arcade cabinet that plays console games?
Basically just a standard AV hookup, with different control panels based on console.
I'd wire up SNES or NES control decks to give the proprietary connector and use arcade components.
Thoughts?
>>2900343
I'm a little confused by what you are attempting. Do you mean sticking a SNES and a TV inside of an arcade shell? Wiring up a joystick to use instead of a controller? Could you be a little more specific in what you are thinking about, cause I can't figure it out from your post.
>>2900362
>build empty arcade cabinet
>stick CRT TV in as a base
>have a platform so I can put in a console that I can switch out as I choose
>have a control panel for each individual console that I can plug in as needed
>>2900368
I see... So, you mean a basic CRT TV stuck inside an arcade cab. Then you want to (I might be misunderstanding this part) have control boards with the controls for each system embedded into them, that you switch out when changing systems? If this is what you are saying, then I'm not sure why you would want this. Wouldn't you be much better served with a control board with just two or four hangers to place controllers on with a hole in the middle for running the cables through? That way you would only have to switch out controllers through the board, rather than pull out the entire board to replace.
As for switching out the consoles, unless they all use the same cable then you will need to go back in and switch out the cables as well. At that point, why not just use a simple switcher? Press button, switch which console is connected to the TV.
I have just purchased a LLoyds portable TV/Radio Model L214 and I would like to connect my computer to it and use it as a second monitor to emulate older games onto for shits and giggles. The only problem is that there is no input other than the antenna. The only other input says "EXT ANT (75Ω)" and I think that's regarding the radio. I was told by a friend that I would need to buy something that emits a signal from my video card that the tv would be able to pick up. What do you guys think I need to do to connect it?
>>2900736
Here's what the back looks like.
>>2900736
I think the antenna built into it is for radio, the EXT ANT is for the TV. And to get your signal there, you would need something to broadcast on the right frequency. I guess there are ones that plug into your PC, but you might find it cheaper to hunt down UHF transmitters on ebay. Also try agile modulators. Not too sure about the UHF transmitters, but you can pick up an agile modulator for less than $40 if you look hard enough.
>>2900779
Unfortunately I know nothing of UHF transmitters and agile modulators. Is one more simple than the other, what else would I need to buy to go with it? Also you said there are ones that plug into my PC, what exactly do you mean by that? Sorry if I'm asking too much and sound like an idiot.
>>2900825
Well, the UHF transmitters are more expensive, so lets stick to the agile's. Agile modulators take an incomming signal and broadcast it on a programmable channel, in other words, over the air. So you would just need the right cable to feed some input to it from your source in addition to the agile modulator. As for ones that plug into your PC, what I was saying is that there MIGHT be some sort of analog TV broadcast PCI card or something, but I have no idea.
I don't know how we were able to tolerate the abysmally low chroma resolution of VHS. DVDs just look so much better, especially through component or RGB.
>>2901190
We tolerated a lot as kids because we didn't know better. RF, composite, VHS... we were just happy to be able to experience things like VCRs and video games. We were really one of the first generations that had both readily accessible. There wasn't much room to complain.
There's sort of a nostalgic warmth about how shitty VHS tapes were now, to me anyway. Now that all of my favorite movies and stuff are readily available in HD, remastered formats, and I've seen them a million times, there's a certain charm in seeing it the old-fashioned way again. It also puts into perspective why fullscreen edits of widescreen movies were standard back then. Aside from moron consumers not understanding that the black bars aren't covering part of the picture, considering how small your average TV was 20-30 years ago, and how poor the picture quality was, I might forsake the extra width of a movie to get a bit more size and detail out of it.
>>2900736
>>2900739
Literally anything that will convert the PC signal to coxial. Instead of screwing it on, you just strip some of the coaxial cable and wrap it around the antenna, then tune the TV to that channel. You miiiiiight have to insulate the antenna somehow to prevent interference, but it's doubtful.
Try it with that ext ant port first because it COULD be for the TV
How safe is this to turn on?
How do I put it back in place without electrocuting myself?
>>2901234
>How safe is this to turn on?
It's not.
>How do I put it back in place without electrocuting myself?
Turn it carefully.
Place the CRT screen on something soft like a pillow to avoid scratches.
Then unscrew and remove the back and inspect the internal damage, also check if the circuit board are cracked.
>>2901237
It wasnt turned on in a while
30 days
>>2901213
Thats nice, but you don't bother to explain the simple solution. What would that solution be then?
>>2901247
Kill yourself
>>2901240
It's still potentially lethal, even for years. Be careful.
>>2901304
>>>2901247
>Kill yourself
Oh you
>>2901247
>>>2901213
>Thats nice, but you don't bother to explain the simple solution. What would that solution be then?
I think your chances of finding the equipment to do what you want are pretty slim if that equipment does in fact exist in the first place. Unless you're a electrical engineer and can whip up an alternate signal input or make your own PC compatible uhf transmitter I honestly think you're better off just getting another retro monitor to mess around with that has, at the very least, a composite input. Sorry bro.
Look what just turned up...
>>2901207
So if I get one of these cables and put it into a RF modulator from my computer, and then from the modulator I have coaxial cable wrap around the antenna that may work?
So somebody please school me on the bvm-20g1u. I want to know everything I should know about one of these bad boys
>>2901918
Exactly like a 20F1U except 100 fewer tv lines and 2 less expansion slots.
Any good?
>>2901942
And the f1u is pretty much the gold standard
>>2901550
You won't have sound, if that works. That's assuming the signal coming off your video card is compatible with what your TV will accept, which may not be the case.
You have three options that I can see. You can spend the $40ish on the agile modulator and broadcast your own TV signal to pick up on the antenna(which you'll need to buy for any option), or spend $25-$30 for a digital to analog converter box(converts HDMI to composite) and spend the money on a cable to convert composite to coaxial which you can splice onto the TV antenna(though I have no idea how well that would work, or if it would even work properly), or if you have an old VCR you can try the VCR option with the 2nd option, and use the VCR to convert from composite to coaxial.
The first option is the only one I know would work for sure, but the other two may work. I've never spliced coax to an antenna, so I dunno.
>>2901980
Okay so I'm thinking of going with the first option. Now when I look up agile modulator I find stuff that looks like something I already have (pic related). Is this an agile modulator?
>>2902008
Wait, I think I'm retarded, is this what I should be looking for when it comes to an agile modulator?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blonder-Tongue-CAMS-60-Channelized-Agile-Modulator-/371378771641?hash=item5677e656b9:g:oAwAAOSw9N1Vnvi2
My PVM smells really bad
Is there anything toxic I'm not supposed to smell?
I'm gonna activate it outside
>>2901942
Is it multi-sync capable? Like would I be able to get 480p out of it
>>2901550
Yes. Just get a 3.5mm (headphone) to RCA cord as well for sound
>>2901247
Literally the post right above the one you quoted, dumb fuck. RF modulators work on UHF/VHF. Big shocker, I know.
>>2901462
>4000H
Fuck me, they turned it on for like two months and put it back in the box. That's amazingly low.
>>2901945
>the f1u is pretty much the gold standard
I've heard that; but why is it? The E1 models have 100 more TVLines.
>>2901918
>>2902116
would I be able to get 480p [to display on a BVM-20G1U]
Nope, 15kHz/SD/480i/240p only. Option cards will determine what inputs you can use. It probably comes with an RGB/YPbPr (component) input card, and a composite input card. The BVM series one before yours (BVM-2011/P) came with a region-specific card depending on where the set was intended to be used - so PAL for PAL regions, NTSC for NTSC, etc. You could of course add more, but I think your set might do all regions out of the box. (note that RGB and YPbPr are not region specific, and are the same everywhere)
It almost certainly won't have an S-Video (Y/C) input card, though those did exist.
Other cards may or may not be useful. An extra set of RGB/YPbPr inputs won't hurt. means you can plug in two consoles, lets say, and switch between them easily. Other possible cqards are the auto-setup cards which need an external probe to actually work, black-level cards, and a few others. SDI won't help you as i'm not aware of what actually uses it. Old video production equipment, I think?
The set will probably take BNC connections exclusively. You can get RCA-BNC adapters pretty cheap on ebay, and from a pack of 10 about 8 will be fine. Or you can pay more and possibly get them from a radioshack or jaycar or something.
BVM's need terminations on their outputs. Each input BNC will have a loop-through output right next to it, probably under it. These take 75ohm BNC terminators, also available on ebay. You can experiment with and without them. Without terminations will probably be brighter, but will also introduce signal reflection (think slight blur or image ghosting) in the lines.
Operation & Service Manual here: http://dcemulation.org/~darc/SonyBVM14G1A.pdf
Enjoy!
>>2902170
Thanks bud, that's a wealth of knowledge you just dropped. I'm kind of ticked off I won't be able to display 480p as that's what I've been hunting for.
What would be an average price point for one of these?
Also I've seen a nice list of tons of monitors(pvm/bvm) that gives you specs as well as which multisync. Would you happen to know where I can find it?
Honest question.
What would happen if you tried to use a bkm-41/42HD card in say a 20f1u?
the non "D" model of course.
I found out my step-father has a Sony Trinitron WEGA, it has components and is big, flat-screen, can the problem of weird colors be fixed? it has that purple and green color degradation all over the screen, and how much will it cost? Also is a good model for retro-games?
>tfw you see your CRT freak out for the first time, and know that it is not long for this world
Expecting to need replacement of my TV soon, what's a good brand for a 27" 240i/240p/480i with component inputs?
>>2902251
I've seen my CRTs do weird shit once in a while. I've only ever seen one die.
But if you're looking for a backup, sony trinitrons are good. Standard definition only. Also, there is no 240i.
>>2902205
If the wrong colors are showing in strange spots on the screen, it's probably not worth it to try and fix. Corners can get weird colors sometimes without there being something seriously wrong. Do you know if the TV is degaussing properly?
>>2899049
Have an RGB modded NES, a Saturn and a PSX.
Currently modded NES and PSX are on S-Video and Saturn is Composite. I'm considering getting SCART cables and using something like pic related since my CRT has a Component input. I just have a couple of questions:
Does Sync type have any effect on this sort of setup? I don't understand this composite video + sync / csync / luma sync stuff.
Will using this device introduce input lag?
>>2902386
As far as sync is concerned you shouldn't have to worry about what kind of sync you use. However I've only ever used Composite video and Luma for sync with my converter.
And you won't have to worry about input lag since it's not upscaling the image. It's just converting the signal to another signal.
>>2902170
>I've heard that; but why is it? The E1 models have 100 more TVLines.
Someone wrote an article on it a few years back, and as such it get's repeated without much thought.
>>2902178
The brochure?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/m1srn8x3m6eb3k1/PVM+and+BVM+Brochure.pdf
>>2902386
>Does Sync type have any effect on this sort of setup? I don't understand this composite video + sync / csync / luma sync stuff.
I'm not sure how the CSY-2100 clones are effected quality wise based on different sync, but it shouldn't have any problem using any of the three.
Sync is how your CRT knows how to keep all the video data... in sync.
SCART as standard uses composite video for sync; This can introduce interference with some systems/setups, but not something you need to worry about most of the time.
Luma Sync is the luminance signal that would be used for s-video(Y/C) or component(YPbPr). It's essentially just a black and white composite video signal. Without the color information, there's less chance of interference with the RGB signals. It's also often suggested for platforms which don't have C-Sync easily available(PS1/some N64 models)
C-Sync is JUST the sync information, not video or anything else. May also be refereed to as Clean Sync or Raw sync.
>Will using this device introduce input lag?
It's a simple transcoder, not scaling or processing, so no. RGBS->Math->YPbPr.
You will want to get a little breakout to get audio though.
Wolfenstein 3D on the Mega Drive being fed into PVM-1344Q.
>>2902417
Exactly that brochure thank you very much
>>2902417
>Someone wrote an article on it a few years back, and as such it get's repeated without much thought.
I could have sworn Fudoh doesn't *actually* call it the ultimate display, though.
>>2902170
Indeed, which makes it a little frustrating that after all that care and lack of use UPS managed to smash it up leaving me with a bent corner and busted bezel!
I'm so unbelievably pissed off right now...
>>2902567
It wasn't Fudoh, rather people that may have interviewed him.
http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/
>>2902568
Oh god, I have my PVM coming tomorrow and it's UPS. Fuck.
Also, do PVM's have tuners in them for cable?
>>2902607
>Also, do PVM's have tuners in them for cable?
No, they're monitors, not televisions. If your set top box or what have you doesn't have composite out, a VCR would work just as well.
>>2902618
Alright.
Just was wondering about that.
>>2902616
I wish. No, single box with paper(?!) to pad it out. Fucking idiots even managed to put the "This Way Up" markings facing the bottom so it arrived upside down!
The last couple of BVMs I bought came on palettes and were absolutely fine of course but not in as good condition as this one was when it left the seller...
No wonder these things are getting harder to come by if this is how they get treated.
>>2902834
It's because people like you keep buying them from morons who can't pack.
>>2902836
I've bought from this place before and never had problems. I think they might have rushed it after I phoned to complain about it sitting in their warehouse for a week after they told me it had been dispatched.
At least it works, maybe I can transfer the guts into one of my other units with better cases...after they give me a full refund of course.
This PVM-14M2U I bought online just arrived. The seller said it worked, but when I turn it on the onscreen menu looks like this. The text is wobbly and so far to the left much of it is cut off. The video looks like this too when I connect a console. Is this thing broken? I looked around at the service menu, but the image is so screwed up I can't really read the options.
>>2902913
Jesus. It seems the Gods of Shipping are angry and demand sacrifice, as of late.
What's everyone's opinion on the pvm-20n5u? Anything noteworthy about this model?
So I just netted these fuckers. Bvm-20g1u's.
Tested them all out and they're perfect but the screen flickers. It's not noticeable while playing but in menus is when I really notice it. Any advice on how to alleviate the problem
>>2903126
That's just interlaced video. You're noticing it more because the monitor is good. There's an option in melee for "deflicker", but it makes it blurry.
>>2900067
It has about 1.5-2 frames of input lag
Sup /crt/, just got a RGB-Component transcoder so I can get a better image on my TV. So now the question is where to get scart cables? I know there's that UK site, but I was wondering if there's anywhere in america I could go first, just to make it easier.
The consoles I'll be using it with are SNES, Genesis (model 1), and Saturn. I hear there are two different versions of saturn cables too, not sure what to make of that.
Not strictly CRT related but I can't think of a better place to ask - I bought a cheapo 'VGA to Composite video' thing to connect my laptop to my TV for emulation and some other stuff. The amazon reviews didn't say there were any major problems with it working, but it's doing this. What exactly is happening here? Also it's black & white for some reason.
>>2903334
Nevermind - I figured it out. It was PAL or something. Got it resolved though
>>2903305
that's fantastic as it's not just a linedoubler
>>2903126
Component cables.
>>2903126
>menu
>maintenance
>password: 1111
>HD/Tele Text
>1
>????
>PROFIT!
It's ok, you can thank me later
is a fd trinitron the best pleb tier crt tv?
>>2903447
Not if you value good geometry
Don't even get me started on 100hz sets either
>>2903453
suggestions on sets to keep an eye out for?
>>2903458
Confirmed by me at least.
Give it a go but don't go changing other stuff in that maintenance menu unless you're 1000% sure you know what you're doing.
>>2903439
What would this do to get rid of interlace flicker?
>>2903545
It deinterlaces
>>2903532
So I get up to the part where I put my password in but after that I can't find HD/tele text.
>>2903584
Shit, forgot a step
>E Board
Then go up a couple of pages, you'll find it
>>2903589
>>2903584
Found muh screenshot
>>2900000
Yeah I use it. Works find, but that price is crazy. I paid $50.
>>2903646
*fine
>>2903589
Hmm thanks but it actually made the flicker worse so I switched back to 0. I'll have to do some more research
>>2903550
That sounds terrible. It's either going to lag, or be 30fps
>>2903756
>How is deinterlacing terrible
All of them add latency, and some of them output one frame for every two fields, harming motion quality. But then again, interlacing looks terrible too, so for turn based games it's probably worth deinterlacing.
>>2903447
If you can fix the geometry, yes.
>>2903983
So I won't go through the trouble of de interlacing considering I'm playing melee
>>2902913
Hey, I just got the same unit damaged too but not that bad.
They packed it with the screen facing up and the back of the monitor taking most of the damage.
It popped all those little plastic tabs out and cracked the back plastic housing.
Anyone got a service manual for the PVM-14M2U? I need to find the part number for the back plastic panel so I can maybe order a replacement.
Lucky for me I have a guy here that still works on CRT TV's and Monitors and he most likely will be able to fix it up a bit.
Is it possible to swap the screens of two different monitors that are the exact same model and year? One has less hours but a chip on the screen and the other has a perfect screen but a couple more thousand hours
>>2904032
Is that something either I or my local podunk shop could correct? All I have atm is a sanyo 20" flat crt and the convergence? is off.
Google wasnt clear on a solution
>>2904137
The screen you're referring to is physically part of the front of the tube (the physical geometry of a CRT is essentially like a large lightbulb), so unless you're referring to some kind of bezel or protective plexiglass (some arcade cabinets have these to protect their CRT screens from scratches or glare), the answer is definitively, No.
>>2904126
What would the back shell be called in a parts list?
>>2904142
Dang that's upsetting it's the difference of about 6k hours. And I wouldn't want to risk keeping the chipped monitor, who knows what could develop there plus it's distracting.
>>2904126
If you have a guy that can "fix" pvms then you should just ask him for a manual because they will have all that if they are a legit repair shop.
>>2904154
Well, the store has been in business sense the 50s. I was more wondering about part numbers so I can try and find the part myself so I can get an idea of what it will cost.
>>2904152
You can get optical epoxy, maybe you could somehow fill the chip with it.
>>2904139
A crt repair can certainly do it.
>>2904176
Hmm I'm going to contemplate my options, I certainly don't want to cause anymore irreparable damage to the monitor
>>2904137
Putting a older tube into a newer chassis does not make the tube newer.
>>2899049
I can't take pictures with my phone without experiencing banding. Tried using the Snap app, which says it has anti-banding, but it doesn't work.
>>2904629
Thanks
Well, I'll keep my eyes out for one.
>>2904635
Well, I already solved one mystery. What those little fuckers are called that hold the case to the chassis.
Nylon rivets
I have a similar question to >>2904137 but with a few crucial differences
As can be seen in >>2901462 and >>2902568 I've got a BVM 20G1A with 4k hours but with transit damage to the casing - tube looks perfect. I also have a 20F1E with ~85k hours which also has some pretty nasty gouges in the tube AR coating but an undamaged casing
Can I swap the tube between these two to frankenstein a good monitor? I know there is a difference in TV lines (800 vs 900) but surely that's just the aperture grille density and they will accept the exact same internal signal right?
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
>>2904642
Wondering what would be a good replacement. Something that can be undone easy but still holds the pack panel in place.
>>2904415
So no matter what I swap the tube will still carry over the hours
>>2904965
Think of it in these terms
You blow up your engine on your low mileage car. The replacement you fit is from an older higher mileage car but works fine of course. What does your odometer now read and does this magically mean the replacement engine has covered less miles than when you took it from the donor?
The hour (mileage) counter is tied to the monitor chassis (car) not the tube (engine). In fact most tubes got replaced around 30k hours so if your hours are higher than this it's probably on its 2nd or 3rd tube.
>>2904975
Thank for that great example. And the knowledge on replacement tubes. The monitor with the intact screen is a little over 34k, so I could assume that it's hopefully been changed. The other is at 28k so probably. I'll take a roll of the dice and go with the first, I don't have much of a choice anyway
>>2905125
Geometry and convergence? No idea, probably a fair bit as it can be time consuming.
Why not learn to do it yourself? Service menu and either 240p Test Suite or a setup DVD and you're away. Just remember to note down values before you change them so you know what to reset them to if you fuck up. Take it slow and be methodical. Try to think ahead and determine how the different adjustments are likely to interact with each other.
It's really not that hard at the end of the day and very satisfying to get everything just right by your own hand.
>>2905283
I've done convergence on old rear projectors. I will give it a shot. gonna call the shop on monday, will post the quote.
do all tvs have a service menu? my sanyo is off and im definitely not paying to have that fixed.
>>2904724
I think it would be more worthwhile to repair the broken case.
>>2905125
No idea how much someone would charge. But the FD tirnitrons are great CRTs (other than the geometry problems), so if you can't find an RGB monitor, they're pretty much the best.
>>2905346
good to know I bought the 24" for a whopping $10.
Old guy was confused about my happiness.
>>2905297
found the service menu on the sanyo. turn on>unplug>hold menu button>plug in.
there is a bunch of numbers and letters. I'm a little overwhelmed. Where can I find a service manual or instructions for this. in one menu its just a blue bar across the center of the screen and it doesn't line up with the "notch" in the left side.
>>2905346
so its fixable with adjustment? why did they leave the manufacturer wonky?
>>2905367
Can you take a pic of the service menu? Sometimes they can be a bit cryptic but usually decipherable without the manual.
If you really want the manual, let us know the model and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction if it's available gratis.
>>2905374
Flat CRTs are much harder to adjust and by definition are never perfect. It probably would have added a significant premium to the price and Joe Public couldn't care less about it.
The best tubes for geom/conv are the "goldfish bowl" ones as featured in horrendously expensive Ikegami broadcast monitors. They look antiquated but really give a fantastic image when dialled in correctly.
>>2905428
I found a pdf! reset everything to the initial setup specs and it looks much better already. maybe somebody accidentally got in there and screwed with it. it was a thrift shop buy.
Not VR related but it is is CRT related
Odd development...you know what looks kinda nice on a CRT?
PORN!
The scanlines are very pronounced on skin/flesh tones especially more "amateur"-ish produced stuff. And if you are into it it kinda gives off an 80s porno shop vibe.
Currently watching (not fapping- background porn makes me surpringly productive while doing school work) a mid budget DVD video from 2005 featuring a few modern day stars when they were still working their way up and its kinda cool.
If getting into laserdisc wasnt so expensive and troublesome I might thinking about it.
>>2903734
I think this is the kind of deinterlacing that removes vertical resolution not temporal resolution, essentially it turns the picture 240p @ 60Hz
Am-3501 33.5"
>>2905485
That looks lovely.
Might I ask about your setup? What platform, etc?
>>2905503
most early dvd pr0n is interlaced, which make a crt more adapted for watching em.
But also most discs from this era have completely wrong AR, like letterboxed masterings, which wastes something near half vertical resolution.
>>2905535
PC.
I'm using an HP Pavilion mx704 from 2004 set to 300x400, as Shovel Knight runs at 400x224. Not the best monitor, but it works great for low-res stuff.
It would undoubtedly look better on a television than on a PC monitor, but it's much better than having it stretched to 1280x720 on LCD. And Shovel Knight does not have a 1:1 option unless the fullscreen resolution forces it.
>>2905508
So it would either:
-take one field, and display it twice. Skipping the other field essentially 30 fps.
-show each field on the same lines, still being jittery.
-average both fields somehow, and display them as 240. laggy.
>>2905536
If it's non-interactive then deinterlacer lag doesn't matter. I like the w3fdif deinterlacer in ffmpeg, because it doesn't try anything too clever and therefore never severely fucks up like fancy deinterlacers do.
>>2905764
QTGMC or bust
Hey CRT guys.
So I'm going to soon be buying both:
14 inch - Sony Trinitron PVM-14M2A
17 inch HD - JVC DT-V1710CG
I'm likely going halves with a friend and I get first choice of which to keep for myself (Unless he loses interest, then I'm keeping both).
I wanted to ask, is there a far and away better of the two that should be my first preference?
I think they are both going to look wonderful.
Secondly, would it look good, or even be possible to connect a PC to it to run emulators or games like KoF98UM through it? Or would it be a massive pain in the ass and not even be the right res?
It's mainly going to be a Mega Drive, Saturn and maybe Dreamcast display. I'll even look into some other older consoles down the line.
>>2905736
Oh my
Thanks for the information. Maybe it isn't so bad after all.
Too bad the other ones I see on ebay for parts are fucking $150 a pop.
>>2903001
i have one, modded it to have the RGB inputs included with 20n6... works great.
How does /vr/ feel about retro gaming on a projector?
pic related
>>2906948
Latency.
Ghosting.
Poor color quality.
And did you fucking add scanlines?
>>2906948
This thread would only be interested if it's a CRT projector.
>>2905632
I don't own one myself but judging from what I've read about it here it's the second one
-show each field on the same lines, still being jittery.
If it has that it could be really useful to turn 480i ports of 240p games back into 240p, though. (Say CAVE games on Xbox 360 for instance).
>>2906512
pretty expensive, but I'd go for it if I had the money (I so want a multiformat capable monitor).
Would $300 be too much for a bvm-20f1u? It only has cosmetic damage and looks like the picture is perfectly fine. I've been looking for a solid 20 inch
>>2907384
I'd want to know how many hours it has first
>>2907387
For $300 . Just go xrgb mini
>>2907394
Is it just an upscaler? Also how much
>>2907394
Enjoy your lag from the device + LCD response time.
>>2907403
Just about $300 on eBay, you might need a d terminal to component adapter and JP21 to scart.
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html
Above review covers everything but tldr is its a fantastic low lag HDMI out 240p upscaled with scanlines (720p, not so Much 1080p) De interlaces 480i very well and 480p is satisfactory. Only down is doesn't handle 240p to 480i switching games well
I say for $300 go for a mini or the upcoming diy unit from marq, with a good low input lag IPS monitor or tv and get a broadcast CRT locally hopefully for cheap (under $100) when it's in your area. I own plenty of Crts and find myself looking for another one with lower hrs, better geometry etc. They are rarely ever without problems
>>2907469
The device itself is pretty low lag 1.5-2 frames, but don't forget that the LCD you're running it on will also have significant lag added to that unless you have a low response time gaming monitor or TV, both of which are usually expensive.
>>2907465
This could be an issue for some agreed
I use a MX279H with the mini and compared with a pvm using 240p test suite manual lag test I get just a bit more lag on the mini setup when I last checked
Not trying to start a xrgb vs CRT war but for $300 I'd rather get a mini over a bvm
>>2907480
Does your pvm have passthrough/outputs? You should try doing connecting your console to both the pvm and xrgb and doing the regular lag test, the differences will be a lot more clear
>>2907480
Also, scanlines are fucked up on 1080p with the xrgb-mini, hate that.
>>2907585
Depends on what games you play. For casual use and most users its no problem. If you're planning on playing games with frame-perfect tricks or doing speedruns or anything like that it's not a good choice.
The one drawback with using a PBM/BVM is the initial cost or the struggle of finding a good one, then if you really insist on using RGB outs you have to blow a ton of money buying the right cables and/or doing the mods to the consoles or paying for the mods to be done, which can add up quickly. If you're just planning on playing with composite or s-video etc. then you're fine.
Before you spend a lot of money or time getting a good broadcast monitor, maybe try a standard definition sony trinitron which can be found for free/cheap
>>2907593
thats what I did just got a 24" fd trinitron for $10 po even had the box. looks better than my sanyo flat and is going in to be tuned up on monday!
>>2905428
forgot to thank you for your offer.got the screen size and position set with the service menu but am afraid to mess with the rest of it. blue seems shifted on the right edge of tube but not too bad.
>>2907512
They got a little better (as in actually tolerable) with the latest upgrade, but they're still far from perfect.
I still use mine in 720p
>>2907585
As a cheaper and not that much worse looking alternative if you want to stick with a crt, look for a sony trinitron with component in and get a csy2100, it's lag free and will let you use the rgb out on your consoles and convert to component. If you get one that does 480p over component you have that option too so it's a good alt.
>>2907664
>csy2100
Apparently that that piece of hardware is shit, a quick search on youtube will give you lots of poor reviews on it from anyone who cares about picture fidelity.
Also, converting from RGB to component/YPbPr pretty much loses many advantages of outputting RGB in the first place, at that point you might as well use s-video if your console supports it and there wouldn't be that much difference.
>>2907593
GameCube possibly n64 or ps1. I have other retro's but eh
>>2907723
Probably won't matter too much then, unless you're good at melee
Does anybody have or know of a good comparison between the n64 and wii versions of games? I'm wondering if the 2d assets are stretched in the vc versions
So I'm going to look at a few PVM-20M4As later and was wondering what I should be looking out for specifically with them since I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff.
They seemed to have been used as CCTV monitors so I assume there's a ton of time on them.
Should I be looking at the service menu to see the time logged on them?
Is there an internal test on them so I can see how the colour/brightness quality are?
I assume that even though it's an EU screen I should be able to switch it to 60hz?
>>2906948
My buddy had one set up in his basement. I'm not sure of the specs, looks good though. No noticeable lag with Mario Kart 64. It's old, probably 640x480 max.
>>2908089
>Should I be looking at the service menu to see the time logged on them?
Those models won't have hour counts on them.
>Is there an internal test on them so I can see how the colour/brightness quality are?
Nothing internal; It'd be advisable to bring something with you to test them with, even if it's just a game you know (the looks of) very well.
>I assume that even though it's an EU screen I should be able to switch it to 60hz?
Automatically handled, even. Shouldn't have any problem dealing with stuff with NTSC encoding(for composite and the like) either.
If they've been used for CCTV/Security monitors, there's a high likelihood there could be some burn in from reference timers.
If you can't bring something with you, the best you can do is mess around with the brightness and contrast while having the menu up and looking for tell tale signs of age, such as bars extending off of bright areas.
Disregarding the odd ringing, and moire, this is what it'd look like. With the monitor's menu up, it would extend off of the text.
>>2908123
Thanks for the help, really appreciate it.
It's pretty short notice so I don't think we'll be able to bring anything with us to test, trying to get to them before anyone else does.
I'm hoping that even though they're CCTV that they're still in a decent condition and I guess even a worn PVM is still going to be decent to play on. There's no way to plug in RGB without the breakoff connectors, right?
I live in the middle of nowhere in one of Canada's least populated provinces. I feel like my chances of finding a CRT that supports RGB is going to be impossible, let alone component or S-Video. Should I cut my losses and instead look for a PC VGA monitor instead? I'm only looking for a CRT around that size to put on my computer desk anyways, and retroarch plays really nicely with them from what I can gather.
>>2908145
>breakoff connector
Breakout cable
All that cable does is take one cable/connector carrying many signals and separate them out into individual ones.
Technically, you could make a cable for any given system that already ends in the correct connector type (BNC in this case) and that would be able to connect up to it fine. Outside of making your own or commissioning someone to make one for you, you're not going to find one; That's if you just want to stick to the default av connector though.
>It's pretty short notice so I don't think we'll be able to bring anything with us to test, trying to get to them before anyone else does.
If you can stop at a store somewhere that sells BNC-RCA adapters, you could technically bring anything that can output composite and test it with that. If you have something that outputs s-video and a cable for it, you don't even need adapters.
>>2908224
Yeah we might just bring S-video to test. We're planning to go RGB > breakout later down the line but we couldn't get the cables in time since the monitors went up for sale a day ago.
I'm a total retard when it comes to this stuff so thanks for the help guys.
>>2908172
livin in small town alaska, know those feels, found a trinitron for nothing.
>>2908172
doing actual scanlines in that wierd super-widex240 mode look kind of harsh on pc monitors and compatibility with retroarch cores wasn't the greatest in my experiience.
>>2908224
Hey, asked earlier but do you have any moire pattern on the left and right of your mitsu? Was told that large sets will all have it?
>>2907687
Huh, always thought it was decent since I've heard good things. But yeah even s-video on a trini is a good cheap alternative.
>>2908429
Sorry about that.
At the distance I play at, I really can't say I see much of a moire pattern on my set; The coarseness of the dot-pitch in the corners maybe, but that's about it.
There's actually a "Moire" setting in the menu, but it set so low, I doubt that has anything to do with it.
>>2908589
anything visible up close, 1ft away? I don't really notice mine unless it's a solid color on the screen.
>>2908589
It's too cold to go back up to stare at it and actually look for anything, but nothing really comes to mind off the top of my head.
Maybe once it gets a bit less....frigid up in the attic, I'll take a look, but not tonight.
>>2908713
No worries, sounds like you dont have any.
Hopefully I can get mine to disappear once I get it set up permanently
Feelsbadman.jpg
Finally got my 75 ohms terminators, bright screens are no longer an overload mess.
pics comming soon, as new phone makes pretty nice pics also (no 60fps recording unfortunatelly)
>>2903126
you play competitive melee? where at?
>>2909218
Getting these monitors -just- for melee or gamecube only is a total waste
>>2909236
Explain your logic.
>>2903126
I'm surprised the Smash community isn't more into PVMs. For the handles and heavy-duty cases alone...
>>2903126
Melee let you turn the flicker filter on/off in the options.
not terminated
terminated
not terminated,
terminated.
the most extreme, unterminated it was an eye burning overload
now it's fine terminated
So I got this circa-2000-ish trinitron and its reds are way fucking oversaturated. I want to turn down the saturation, but only for reds while leaving the other colors normal. However, I fear that if I do that, I'll just fuck up the hue and end up getting weird colors, like yellows looking greenish or something.
Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?
What's the most I should pay for a CRT? Do I need a fancy one to get the input advantages?
>>2910272
Service menu. Adjust gain/bias for red
>>2910395
I have a pdf of the service menu, but unfortunately it doesn't really give any real definitions to to terms it uses
There's R Drive, R Cut, and there's also something called axis AKA "R-Y phase offset". Not even sure what that last one means, but as for the first two, could you explain what Drive and Cut mean in these instances?
>>2910403
Cut is the cutoff level for each color. You can adjust that to see if it tones down your saturation.
Drive shouldn't need adjusting.
>>2905915
Just wanted to ask again if anyone had any info on either of these. The JVC seems to be 720p, would that be a problem for 240p games or pre DC era in general?
>>2910556
I assume it's the upper limit cutoff then, not the lower limit?
Alright, cool. thanks for your help.
>>2910574
>The JVC seems to be 720p, would that be a problem for 240p games or pre DC era in general?
Googled the set name. It It says multiformat, and lists a bunch of common scanning frequencies. Looks like a pretty great set for anything, including retro.
Anyone here ever build a PC specifically for emulation on a CRT TV? I have a CRT with Component and would like to build a PC that can output 240p to the TV. Anyone done it?
>>2910587
You need to get one of the older ati video cards that can output 15khz VGA/RGB
>>2910632
What about soft15khz? I keep seeing it mentioned but I'm not sure if I can set it up on anything.
>>2910653
Will this work via S-Video?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Y103D-ATI-Radeon-HD3450-256MB-PCI-E-Low-Profile-Video-Card-DMS-59-S-Video-/111680361374?hash=item1a00ab139e:g:SpgAAOSwpDdVeIL6
>>2910694
From what research I've done any S-Video signal from a graphics card like that is 480i, so you still need to convert it to 240p. I also want to use component instead of S-Video if possible.
>>2910703
This might be helpful:
http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
>>2910724
Already read through that, but thanks. Was thinking I'd need to get an Extron VSC and an Extron RGB, but was hoping there was an easier way.
>>2910587
VGA -> yuv converter. Output 240p from the computer.
>>2910734
Have you done it? From what I've read you can't just output 240p from VGA easily.
>>2910742
I haven't done the conversion part because I only have RGB monitors. I have gotten my main desktop computer to output 240p over VGA, though. It uses a modern AMD card.
>have 3 old CRTs at my house
>1 is completely busted
>1 works but the brightness constantly flickers up and down for no apparent reason
>1 works but has strange bright spots and dark lines
Is it even feasible to try to repair these or should I just start looking for a new TV? I have some basic soldering experience replacing capacitors and stuff.
>>2910742
you gotta use crt_emudriver and an old Radeon card
>>2910936
Terminating involes 'capping' the video out or other unused connectors on the back of the monitor. The 'cap' is basically just a dummy connector with a certain electrical resistance (usually bnc/75 ohm).
Some models require this and some don't (since these monitors were usually used for broadcasting/medical/security purposes, they almost always had something like another monitor or tape recorder etc. attached to it in addition to the source input). 'Newer' models usually don't require it.
>>2910742
>you can't just output 240p from VGA easily
You can at 120Hz, but it creates scanlines that look even worse than normal scanlines because they are so thin.
>>2909218
Haven't been to a tourney yet, just have to gather the balls and the time to go to my weekly in NYC.
>>2909236
I'll play other stuff on it, just mostly melee
>>2909394
Maybe the 14inch ones, they're not bad at around 40 pounds. But anything over that would be ridiculous to bring to a tourney. 8inches is too small in my opinion
>>2909414
I'm aware, I've already messed with it
>>2903298
And here I thought I was going crazy and or my TV wasn't working correctly. Case in point, boot up Saga Frontier for the Ps1 and check out the title screen. Flicker all over the place.
>>2903298
So there's nothing you can really do about it
>>2910952
I knew what terminating meant just didn't know where you terminate at.
My PVM has in and outs. So if I'm not using the outs it's makes a difference to cap those?
>>2904126
I dropped off my PVM at the service center today. The guy was kinda surprised and excited to work on something older.
Should be all tuned in a couple of days and ready for pick up.
>>2911056
Did he give an estimate on the work at all? I was looking at having mine worked on just because I dont have the time or expertise to do it myself.
But id rather not spend a fortune on servicing either.
Also just received this in the mail today. inline 31608HVA. Wont really be able to set it up until the weekend.
>>2911218
>>2910936
>>2910952
>>2911051
here is the setup.
>>2911231
if your monitor has that little resistor symbol, it means it auto-terminates.
As a general rule, PVMs autoterminate while BVMs don't.
>>2911316
thats not bad at all id pay $40 to have my properly calibrated.
And yeah its a 16input 8 output BNC video/audio matrix switch picked it up for $55 after shipping etc.
>>2910586
Thanks! It sounds like a good TV.
I also found out it has the following input options. I'm thinking S Video is probably the best bet?
The Sony will accept video over Component input, as well as 2 Composite video inputs and S-video.
The JVC has an SD-SDI card installed for 2 SDI channels. It also has 2 Composite inputs and S-video. The JVC also has a spare card slot for other input options.
>>2911319
Yeah, it isn't that bad at all. He was pretty excited it seemed to be able to get inside a CRT Monitor again.
>>2911321
Now i just need to find someone locally that can do the same for me. My monitor displays skewed, and i have to turn rotation almost all the way to 0, default is 100, in order for the image to be straight.
in doing so it seems to have really messed up the convergence in the upper right and lower left corners of the screen.
>>2911320
>The JVC has an SD-SDI card installed for 2 SDI channels. It also has 2 Composite inputs and S-video. The JVC also has a spare card slot for other input options.
The JVC RGB/Component option cards are apparently quite expensive and hard to come by, so it might not be the best idea to pick up.
>>2911337
If you want, I can talk to my guy about maybe possible taking orders by mail to tune and fix PVM's
>>2911354
So I've heard. Would it be worth using with S-Video or Composite? I understand Composite isn't very good.
>>2911363
Correction, it's RGB/COMPONENT Sorry I'm new to this :(
>>2911363
15khz RGB (the one outputed by consoles) was usually carried by a SCART or JP21 cable (along with sound and other signals) because they were the most commonly available connectors for such signals.
But at core, it's only 4 wires (R, G, B, sync), so you can either make a custom cable for your console, or an adapter/cable that will break out SCART/JP21 into R, G, B, sync BNCs to connect to the monitor.
As a side note, many high end PC CRT had separate BNC inputs for R, G, B, Hsync, Vsync BNC inputs. It allowed better shielding for each signal, important for avoid interference at high resolutions. And before you ask, no you can't use them to connect a console, as these monitors are 31khz.
>>2911378
Thanks for that. I'm beginning to wonder if i should cancel the purchase.
It sounds like I'd need to not only buy a SCART cable, but also an adapter to get it to work with this Sony PVM (PVM-14M2A)...
Might be better off waiting for one that has a SCART input straight out?
Is S-Video comparable, or not worth buying a PVM to output with S-Video?
>>2911383
don't pass on a PVM. S-Video is already a huge upgrade, and when you feel you want to upgrade you'll already have a RGB capable monitor.
>>2911389
I wasn't sure how hard they are to find, especially in Australia.
The Sony doesn't sound capable of RGB apart from using the 3 cable solution. You're right though, I can upgrade to that later and use S-Video in the meantime. Ultimately it's not a lot of money for the two...
If I use CRT_emudriver or something similar to get a 240p resolution, would something like this carry that to the TV at 240p in S-Video, or would it turn it back to 480i?
http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Direct-SW-23000-PC-Converter/dp/B003BVVYSM/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1452612035&sr=8-6&keywords=vga+to+s-video
So after waiting days to hear back about a 20" PVM the guy gets back to us and says he made a mistake, it's only 14" instead.
Anyone here own a 14" PVM, is it still worth picking up? Was dead set on a 20".
>>2911803
I've got a 1440QM. Picture is perfect and it's a great size for a small room. Found it at a university and it hadn't been used in 10 years.
If it's in good condition then it will still be a good monitor, just make sure it has the inputs you need.
>>2911803
Where you at?
Finally got a real camera, this is my first pic with it
>>2911356
Nah its alright, shipping is what caused my issues in the first place id rather avoid it, because the one I bought supposed what calibrated and when I received it, its wasnt terrible but not what I would expect from a quote "professional calibration".
>>2912106
Supposedly was*
