Previous >>123849168
Hours gone by without DW fucking something up: 88
(Change to "Days" if higher than 100)
>[Fate/GUDAGUDA Honnouji event]
http://fate-go.cirnopedia.info/quest_event_20151125.php
November 25 19:00 to ??? (December 11 13:59) JST
- Nobunaga is a free 4* event servant
- Ascension items are skulls from the shop (Check stock!)
- Milestone ladder awards extra Nubunaga copies:http://pastebin.com/vx4ydHd4
- Use promo servants (see link) to gain more points
- The first Nobu copy you get is temporary, at 100k points it BECOMES PERMAMENT and keeps the exp you gave her
- Copies after that are for NP upgrade
>Farming guide
- 10 AP until you get all you want from that, basically skull and 5* CE
- Then 20 AP until you get skull, 5* CE and all ascensions mats you want
- Then 30 AP if you don't have medusa ce or/and need bowls (gives a mix of bowls and spiders)
- Or 40 AP if you have medusa ce
- 30 AP on average gives 2k hp, 40 AP on average gives around 3k hp
>[Honnouji limited event gatcha]
http://fate-go.cirnopedia.info/summon.php#limited
- Rate up in the Event gatcha for:
- 5* Okita souji (will be gone after event)
- 4* Emiya
- 3* Medusa, Lancer cu and Mephistopheles
- 5* Gudaguda poster girl
- 4* Launch order!
- 3* Fate gudaguda order
>News and Reminders
- Latest changes
http://fate-go.cirnopedia.info/news.php
- Comptiq's interview with Higashide and Sakurai (about London)
http://pastebin.com/ipaXkpd2
- Regular Maintenance: Every Wed from 14:00 to 16:00 JST
>Dropmaps
http://imgur.com/a/6nXq9
>FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions
http://pastebin.com/Hp918cqA
>Mega Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/HTrhq7Nk
>Data Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WI4dKGcwWjn5XpTgfLsK8c0cipRzrWbVpiLGeVr55Ks/htmlview?sle=true#
Toaster version:
http://pastebin.com/jtxyf37T
>Friendlist Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q7PleXm4aQWpc0-fvUhS-p9LMoept7nc5WtwkCUX0os
>Wiki
http://fate-go.cirnopedia.info/
For the Emperor
Better.
Casko's arts skill is now party wide. Is she on par with other 5* now?
>>123884584
Wait she got a buff?
>>123884658
No. I am theorizing a small buff since people seem to rate her low
>>123884584
She still suffers the problem of how Arts chains with NPs work
>>123884174
We didn't need a second thread
nth for handsome uncle Vlad
xth for best rivals
The gacha was a mistake
nth for clown.
Thank you for a decent OP.
>>123884584
Her third skill is good enough already. I would personally change her other two skills.
The second one could have one of its effect be party-wide.
As for the first one, adding an extra something wouldn't push it too far. Hector has a stun, others have a increase to their own NP. To make it unique I'd go for a self heal or one turn damage buff.
But in all honesty, people make her out to be worst than she really is.
>>123884736
What do you mean? From what I know you should use Tamamo in a 3 NP chain and put her last to instantly get everyone back up to 40%, since it's crazy easy to get everybody's NP up with her
>>123884824
Is there any decent YARIO cosplay?
Arash has been killed
Any suspects?
Gotta save this general.
>>123884584
She's already fine as a 5* but fuck wavers buffs. All she needs is the same shit he got that charges NPs and an additional affect on her first skill. Maybe an attack buff for her NP too
>>123884938
Arts chain gives the 20% NP gauge at first, so if you use Casko with a 100% NP with an arts chain, you lose out on those 20% NP. Same thing Vlad suffers from. Imagine if this weren't the case and instead given at the end:
1st Vlad NP
2nd some other NP
3rd Casko NP.
Everyone would have atleast 57%(20% from arts chain, 37% from Casko).
Which assassin is better, stheno or carmilla?
>>123885007
Thank you for the higher res.
>>123885006
That wild man Ozzy!Or Arash.
This is the autism thread for easily triggered people
>>123885062
If you didn't understand my point: Arts NP feel very unrewarding to use in a full Arts NP chain
>>123885117
Thanks m8 but you need worse insults than that to describe this piece of shit.
>tfw no Okita
>>123885117
Obviously it's shitty, we play because it has characters we like.
>>123885117
Anon, no one here has any delusions about this game being good.....
>>123885182
>fuck standards gais, just eat shit and enjoy it :))
>>123885117
Nobody talks more shit about this game than we do, retard.
>>123885117
/feg/ here, ignore this faggot and have fun with whatever games you play.
It's ogre, no way I can make it to 1.5 million hp
>the other one apparently got deleted
>>123885320
>5 Cus
>4 lolis
>cake
>red man
could be worse
>>123885519
>deleted
Just archived, anon
Other reddit shit thread deleted. Mission accomplished.
xth for Siegfried
If nero and the red man were released now they'd have way better animations and maybe even use the extra attacks from extra.
>look at the other thread its full of reddit they said
>look at this thread its full of gameplay discussion they said
Both were as retarded, you shitheads.
What the fuck happened to this general after I went to bed?
>>123885327
That's Kyte, not me
I don't datamine, I only data probe, different things
One is decrypting and reading game files, the other is reading values and stuff from memory at run time
>Anons sperging this much about reddittale
I wanna marry clown.
>>123885670
Just the best can be called a dragonslayer.
I finally did it!
>>123885853
wow
Reposting since the other thread got deleted
>>123882362
>Kiyohime: "I was thinking of connecting Master's room all the way to my room *heart symbol*"
>SFX "DO DO DO DO DO DO" (Drill sounds whatever)
>Tamamo: "Taaaaaaaa~"
>Semiramis: "Why am I even here?"
>>123884174
OTP
T
P
>>123885853
Kill yourself whale, this is why the game is still shit.
>>123885853
WHITE WHALE HOLY GRAIL
>>123885853
HOLY GRAIL
>>123885853
how?
And I mean how much did you spend?
>>123885762
>if any of the vanilla 5* were released now they'd have unique animations
It hurts
>>123885853
This isn't a normal whale, this is motherfucking moby dick.
>>123885853
>200 dollars
>0 okita
How much did you waste for 5 okitas?
>>123885981
Unless he has every skill level 10 that ain't shit compared to the jap who is 5/5 as well.
>>123885853
ebic man, good job paying these developers to continue to be lazy and jew you even more
>>123885853
You are legendary in all the worst ways.
>>123885902
Can we please just go back to shitposting about Lancelot?
>>123885853
Keripo pls
>>123886209
Never thought I'd hear this sentence
>>123886209
>this was all a ruse from jetsfag to make people want lancelot wanking
Sasusge
>>123885853
>tfw stuck at lvl3
Kill me.
>>123886249
White Whale! Holy Grail!
Let's do this again. Which two serants would you handcuff together.
Semiramis and Mordred.
Rate my roll
>>123886209
I'd rather talk about his objectively superior son who actually achieved the holy grail and was called the greatest knight of all time
Pic related
The course of my life is bounded to you.
Please, marry me!
>>123886249
How do you get a face and hair that greasy?
It's kinda disgusting to look at. Do whales not do personal hygiene or something?
Deja Vu
>>123886337
Medea and arthuria
>>123886365
>no UR
Shit/10
>>123886365
not enough nico
>>123886337
Karna and Semi
>>123886365
Needs more Nico, 1/10.
So now they introduced a point system. How long until ladder events are a thing?
>>123886365
garbage but at least you can idolize that SR
>>123886337
Cu and Emiya
>>123886337
Emiya and Gilgamesh
>>123886365
Is there a guide to playing this game? I wanna have some idol fun
>>123886337
Ozzy and Arthur. They'd actually get along well together, if it takes place after fragments when they're all buddies.
>even when Ozzy comes out, I'll then have to wait another eternity for Arthur
It hurts.
Has very high res card artwork been uploaded anywhere? I want that stage 4 EMIYA and Siegfried
>>123886365
Needs more Nozomi.
>>123886427
Whale blubber
>>123886481
>>123886468
>nicofags
disgusting senpaitachi. I bet your favorite servant is lancelot.
>>123886337
Archer/Lancer
Why is nobunaga such a womanlet?
>>123886337
Cu Chulainn and Cu Chulainn
>>123886535
>>123886556
Poor Shirou, that is bullying you known
>>123886337
Kojiro and Medea. Who would break first?
>>123886638
Why is Nozomi so based? I bet her and Drake would get along.
>skull drop never
>CE drop never
>400 blacks shits never
>>123886365
Not enough Maki.
>>123886872
skulls dont drop retard
Will I still be able to make it?
>>123886839
That is not even a question
>>123886862
Because Nozomi is best love live.
>>123887060
Probably not
>>123886337Meandmy waifu.
>>123887060
If you have apples, sure. It doesn't matter if you use them now or later, might even be better drops later.
I'm at 250k myself with 0 apples used since saving for last days to see how many I'd actually have to use
>>123887078
TL?
>>123884346
>For the Emperor
>Posts heretical whore on par with Slaanesh
Extra Heretical
>>123886558
Visit llsifg.
Every thread until Astolfo
Who here ready for Carmilla and Stheno fags to come out of the woods when the next quest appears
>>123886558
Play starlight stage instead.
>>123887154
I have 36 apples left, I used quite a few getting to 100k. I probably should've leveled up my party more beforehand.
>>123886337
Gilles and Jeanne.
No telling if Julius did it after he realized Shirou was the one keeping him from his dream all this time, to be a dick, or if he always had her under his thumb like this.
She's a bit broken now though
>>123886558
You can't play Love Live on a rooted device or emulator just in case you use any of those. It exits once it detects root access.
This is quickly becoming the worst general on /vg/
Is that what you faggots want? To become worse than Katawa Shoujo General?
>>123886389
>achieved Shiny cup
The bread and bleeding spear are where it's at. The Grail is an overrated cup.
>>123887659
Wait why?
Are japs just too bad at computers to root?
>>123887696
At nighttime we're perfectly fine when the jetfag isn't around to stir up power level arguments
In the day we have people like the undertale anon who thought it'd be funny to stir shit up between generals
>>123887696
Anon, this is /vg/. Shitposting is the norm.
>>123887564
I forgot to check your level and all that.
That's a bit of an issue since apples are basically half value. On the bright side you got level up refills. But since you're not high level/probably don't have very high level servants for later quests, don't think you'll be able to get everything from this jew ass event.
My advice is to set your priorities from the store now and wait until last days of the event and then see how many apples you want to blow. Also, get some high level supports from the spreadsheet/from these threads. Would offer myself but I'm pretty much full and don't have all that fancy servants
>>123887696
The only thing we need is a mod to come down here for 5 minutes and ban the jetfag
>no way to see how old your account is
>no way to see how many days till bonus quartz
>>123887819
>Are japs just too bad at computers to root?
What?
>>123887920
>Anti-jetfag spotted
You are the one always starting shit up
>>123888161
>you are the one who always starting shit up
delusion reaching critical levels
>>123887659
I'm sure there must be ways to play it
>>123887659
>>123888297
There is a modded version with root detection removed, yes.
>>123888540
link?
Reminder that Herkcvcks use proxies just to try dirtying UNRIVALED name
>>123888980
>>123888980
Gawainposter here, Sir Lancelot doesn't have a name to tarnish.
>>123888980
>no one likes us
>IT MUST'VE BEEN RIGGED!
literally 12 year old mentality, which isn't surprising at all
>>123887912
Ah alright, I dropped the game like a month after release and am now trying to catch up on a bunch of things. I'm mostly focused on getting golden skulls and nobunaga copies.and trying to roll Okita.
Thanks for the advice and good luck to you as well with this hellish event.
Send help
>mfw just past 500k
I'll not make it guys.
>>123886337
Scathatch and Atilla. Do you think they would get along?
>>123889319
i love this meme
>use friend okita with medesa CE
>realize she is extremely squishy
I feel bad for people getting her NP to 5, she's definitely a replaceable 5*
>>123889319
>500k
>im not going to make it guys xD
>>123889293
You niggers are putting way too much effort into this shit game. It's patently obvious the devs aren't giving it 100%, so why are you? Just cheat apk and let the game farm itself, you can go back to playing it for real when this abysmal korean game grind event disappears.
>>123889293
Grats on wasting 40ap.
>>123889059
>>123889169
>Herkcvcks spotted
>>123889137
Fuck Off
>>123889520
Fuck off back to reddit already.
>>123889420
>medusa ce of getting hit 3 times per turn
Yeah totally okitas fault for being squishy you retard.
In other news, SHINJI!
>>123889293
Team?
>>123889420
Do servants have different defense values? Seems my Arturia takes less damage then a support Okita does.
>>123887405
but anon, carmilla is legitimately good
>>123886337
Spooks and Zealot
>>123889319
you have like two months left how won't you make it
I want to fuck Mordred
>>123889625
Not that we know of
>>123889638
legitimately good at being shit
>>123889625
Only changer is level difference.
Anything else is nothing but placebo and variance
>>123889137
Oh baby, that Ye Old Burn. Middle Ages trash talking is the best trash talking.
>>123889609
even without medusa she is frail as fuck
she's just the next trophy 5* that'll rust on the shelf after the event
>summoning ticket
>another Gandr
I didn't have any Gandr, but after rolling for Okita I now have a maxed out Gandr, but no Okita.
>>123889638
Shes the best assassin but when you're compared to shittheno and a 2*, that doesn't really say much
>>123889737
>he doesn't know that after quick buffs that she can fill her NP bar in two turns and nuke shit consistently while healing herself for 2k
>>123889717
Event is ending in 11 days lol.
>>123889937
>he doesn't have Kintoki
>he thinks tickling the enemy is a nuke
:^)
>>123889802
I have gotten 15 tokiomi's, he just won't stop appearing in the gacha.
>>123889737
Someone post the carmillia soloing prenerf 40ap with infinite dodge marie image collection.
>>123889625
Not that I found, but given that I just started to properly dataprobe the combat data during runtime, I might find something. Or not. Most likely not.
Attribute modifier plays into damage taken, too, so that might be it.
>>123890034
Good thing Kintoki has good survivability right?
Not like he gets rekt in 2 shots from a boss right?
>>123889625
No, Medusa CE makes all enemies attack you for 3 turns since the start of battle. She looks squishy because she takes all the hits. Any character will die like shit since ghosts are fucking stronger than the nobus.
If you're using her in 40AP, better abuse the 60% attack buff and clear the first wave with buster attacks then use her evade on 2nd and master evade on the 3rd turn.
>>123889457
>>123889479
Never mind, Cu is literally immune to whores apparently.
>>123889612
77 Emiya, support, 60 Cu, 50 Medusa, 35 Benkei, 40 Nobu
>>123890224
>he isn't one shotting bosses
maybe you should have refunded more :^)
>>123890034
i dont know whats worse, the kintoki fags who try to invalidate every servant with his burst, or the cheatapk fags who try to invalidate any discussion about difficulty. both are retarded faggots.
>>123889215
Forgot to mention, if you're going to add people from the spreadsheet it's probably a good idea to add yourself before, since there are people who won't accept otherwise thinking you're a random support.
Also, the 40AP quests will only get harder now, so something to take into consideration if you're saving apples. Bit of a gamble either way.
>>123890224
>Implying Kintoki won't kill the boss in a single bbc or np.>>123890239
>>123890272
You need a Caster for this quest. I went with my Tamamo and dropped from 360% to 340%, the same shit.
So have we finally reached the consensus that Nero is the cutest servant?
>>123890569
I want to smell Nero's farts!
Calling the cops I am certain this is a crime.
Hey guys, do you like bullying Saber? I like bullying Saber. She's so cute when her face is full of anguish. CUTE!
>>123890636
>getting the 5* archer in disguise
You're fine mate
>>123890636
You got what you were promised anon, a 4*. Heck there is even another one.
>>123890743
Come on, Robin's at least a 6*
>>123890706
reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/
They're all secondaries like you. Please go there.
Is the old thread in the archive?
Can I bring it back?
I just wanna see people crying over the Gacha and showing off lewd pictures of their waifus.
>money gone from my wallet from Google fucking up
>no gems
>game won't even let me attempt to buy more gems
It's like Google wants me to become a refundfag
>>123887078
>>123887172
メディアリリィが実装されました。
Medea Lily has been added to the gacha.
メディア!?
Medea?
(あのキャスター!?)
Is it really "that" caster?
まさかあの女狐にもこんな小鳥の様な頃があったとはな!
At one point in time, that old fox was this cute little bird?
この少女になるとは時の流れも残酷なものよ!
It's truly a cruel twist of fate for this little girl to become a woman like that!
あの、アサシンさんですよね?
Umm, Mr. Assassin, right?
未来での私ととても仲良くしてくださってると聞きました
I heard that you became good friends with the future me
未来の私は今の私よりも頼りになるとおもますので・・・
Since the future me is more reliable than the current me...
どうか・・・これからもよろしくお願いしますね
In any case, I look forward to working with you
いやぁ、あの様な無垢な少女見てしまったからどうにもいつもの悪態がつけなくてな
Weell, after seeing such a pure little girl, there's no way I can saying anything bad about Medea now
あちらは可憐な少女ではあったが・・・
Such a cute little girl...
年期が入っているのもいいものだと拙者は気付いたぞ、キャスター
You know, caster? I realized that she'll turn out really nice if she grows up the way she is now
小次郎ー?
Kojirouooo?
小次郎どこー?
Where are you, Kojirou?
出番だよー
It's time!
ケンタウロス狩りに行くよー?
Let's go hunt some centaurs!
こじろー・・・
Kojir-
こ・・・っ!
Ko-
小次郎ーーっっ!!
KOJIROOOOOOU!!
>>123890743
But I maxed out David and Robin from FP and single rolls a long time ago, they're useless to me now
>>123890569
No
>>123891221
>single rolls
Why would you do this?
>>123890706
YAMEROOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I hope this bonus point for specific servants system is in every event from now on
Mostly to make the retards mad, that don't keep 1 of every servant and level them equally
>[Deleted]
>[Deleted]
>[Deleted]
>[Deleted]
holy shit these buffs
>Janitor literally done with our shit
based
Is using a fully ascended gandr better than the 5 star version that hasn't been fully ascended? Since it saves on cost and is only 5% weaker?
>>123891314
>leveling equally
Nice autism.
Only worth of most of them is their interlude quartz
Did we just lose like 25% of the thread or am I imagining that?
>>123885486
1 million is enough, why would you want the extra trash?
>>123891374
What a welfare team
Are you that afraid of the gacha?
>>123891374
>arts team
>wasting 30 minutes fighting this slowly
>not using kintoki
Why do this to yourself?
>>123891518
Unlimited deletion works.
>>123891472
>He plays the game differently from me
>Must be a super autist!
The universe is now big enough for you to fuck off far enough to not pollute this thread with your idiocy
>tfw 3 of the 5 4* servants (across two accounts) that have dropped for me are camilla
>>123891518
The autist sperging over reddit got pruned. Now if only the jetfag would get the same treatment and this general would be bearable again
>jetfag and redditard gone
Don't like how part of the thread is gone now
time for derailing
PosttheoreticalServants. I'll start.
>John III Sobieski, king of Poland
>Rider class
>Led the largest cavalry charge in history (18,000 horsemen) to remove kebab from Vienna
>Special skill, kebab removal A++
>Noble Phantasm would be a massive charge easily on par with Ionian Hetairoi but without all the bullshit that comes with a reality marble
Only issue I can see is that practically no one knows shit about Poland, so he'd get few region buffs.
>>123891714
Not just him. Janitor went full scorched earth. Anyone who interacted with him is getting pruned too I think.
>>123891630
>calls people who don't level equally retards
>gets mad when he gets called an autist for leveling equally
Based Counter Force cleaning up the thread.
>>123891880
>walt disney as caster
Literally famous in all western countries and a whole lotta eastern as well aka massive fame boost.
Reality marble filled with his shit.
Etc.
Can we talk about the game?
>>123891880
Obligatory hyper autism
Can we now discuss how shit Arts NP in an Arts chain are?
I think I fucked up
>>123891663
This event was a ruse.
Emiya and Okita rate up? Fuck that, the rate up went to Drake, Carmilla and Pirate Duo.
>>123892091
this is fanfiction tier garbage
i love it
>>123892138
>no quartz
>no apples
It's gonna be a sad Christmas for you, anon.
>>123892138
how many points?
>>123892138
You fucked up by not leveling your Okita
>>123892091
my face hurts
>>123892138
This is exactly what I want to avoid.
>>123891880
>Jacques de Molay
>Saber
>has NP based off rumors surrounding him, hates using it
>long hair and manly voice + pretty face for fujobucks
>agreeable personality
>>123892138
You better hope the chinese fuck up their servers again or DW fucks up as usual as otherwise you're fucked for Christmas which will 90% chance follow the same formula
>>123891880
>Charlemagne
>Augustus Caesar
>Camilla (different from CARmilla)
Just to name a few. Camilla would be lancer and the other two would be Sabers (probably).
>>123892335
I like him already. Maybe when we get to the DEUS VULT chapter of the story we might just get a crusader. We can only hope.
>>123891880
>Moot, founder of 4chan
>Ruler class
>etc etc
>>123891880
Lovecraft as caster when?
>>123892138
>christmas coming soon after guda guda
Ahahahaha enjoy your coal for christmas
>>123891958
Because it literally is retarded to not do it after this event
>>123892227
Not that much
>>123892376
They will fuck up and we will at least get 20 apples for sure
>>123892469
>Asuka best girl A+
>Banhammer EX
>>123892545
Loli Lovecraft as a caster when?
Loli Poe as a caster when?
>all this Berserker infighting
thank god the actual best Berserker is actually UNRIVALEDsince there are no other zerk girls
So how do you refund multiple orders? It isn't specified in the FAQ
>>123892469
Counter Guardian MOOT when?
NP: Unlimited Shitposting Works
>>123891557
>implying
>>123891593
>leveling herkek and cancerlot
>>123892610
The very fact you don't see the irony and your own hypocrisy is enough to make me give up on you
>>123891880
I want John Hunyadi Saber. He and Vlad could hang out
>>123892694
>Kiyohime
>Tamamo Cat
>Fran
>Liz
>Arc
>Jack
Only one
>>123892790
Irony would only be there if the statement that it is stupid to not be prepared was false which it isn't
Hypocrisy also only applies if calling stupid people stupid and refuting that people who are not stupid are stupid was in fact applying a double standard which it isn't
Try harder next time
>>123892694
I agree that she's the best, but Tamamo Cat is kinda cute too.
>>123892938
that was easy
>>123892545
What would Lovecraft's Noble Phantasm be? Can't be too close to his canon, otherwise it'd be too OP for Nasuverse.
Guys a question.
How the fuck do we beat level 80 archer 40ap?
As far as I can tell its literally impossible with sn event team even with a 70 support cu or a 80 support liz
>>123893032Demonbane
>>123893051
>we have no idea what enemies are in the quest, what HP and attack stats they have
>it's literally impossible guise
>>123893093
I approve of this. Hell, I'd even advocate a crossover of Demonbane and Fate. Grand Order seems like the perfect place to start. Wasn't there that one fighting game that mixed them up?
>>123892948
>calls out people who don't level all servants as retarded
>get called retarded for doing this
>complains that people need to accept differing ways to plsy the game when he himself was atracking those who didn't level all servants at the same time
If you truly can't see the irony and hypocrisy in your double standard statements than I give up on you.
>>123893051
It could be Arash for all we know you fucking retard.
>>123893051
If a single Caster Liz could carry my team through the Assassin event then any level 70+ Lancer will do fine in the Archer event
>>123891880
Esfandiyar archer.
I was writing him up as an NPC for a HGW I am planning to do.
But I can't come up with anything for him but not-kavachakundala and not-enkidu.
>>123893238
>Friendly reminder that UNRIVALED can beat Elder God Demonbane by KoHing him.
>>123893032
We already got cthullu with caster gilles and it was fine
Lovecraft would be slightly more powerful but still on that level.
>>123892747
このイメージボードは・・・! 間違いなんかじゃない!
>>123893051
Better hope that it is Arash Akbar.
>>123893381
>Friendly reminder that LED Mirage could KoH UNRIVALED because the writer is a fucking lunatic
Did rum abandon fgog? He's not on the friendlist
>>123892948
Are you by any chance a jetfag?
>>123893263
retarded =/= autism
See, this is an actual doublestandard you are applying now.
>>123893051
>Arash
Jeanne will be useful again.
Any clown in Chibichuki yet?
>>123887607
I can't read coryyan
>two Shinjis in a row
>Quick Black Keys
Why do I keep doing this to myself
>>123893032
nobody would know, it'd be indescribable or outright lethal/or with extreme lingering effects to the servants, likely only resisted by those with ME (which would be it's weakness)