UNANSWERED LORE QUESTIONS:
1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?
8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
Its his hobby
>>336021426
Some of the Abyss watchers were controlled by the Abyss.
He decided that, before he gets his shit fucked up, he might as well eat some gods. He decided to be a bad ass.
Gwyndolin is not canonically dead until DS3, as, in DS1, hes an optional booss.
Got me on Wolnir and Ocelotte.
No confirmation, but implied to be Gwyn's forgotten son.
The will to link the fire, embodied. And yes, Gwyn is implied to be a part of the Soul of Cinder.
Time fuckery, I'm sure. Since DS1, we've known time has been fucked.
Probably actually tending the graves, seeing as her husband's grave is around there in the Firelink, it might be there in the Untended Graves.
That is the darkness that consumes the sight of the Firekeepers. They normally lack eyesight.
>>336021426
Gwyndolin was an optional boss so his death was not canon.
Nameless King is known just read his gear.
Aldrich ate people and gained power he was then given Gwyndolin on a silver platter and became "devourer of Gods"
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
The abyss watchers were like a brotherhood of witch hunters. They hunted down any sign of the abyss or corruption and exterminated it.
Well eventually one of the bros got corrupted by something (red eyes) and they ended up killing eachother instead.
However... because they all share the same soul (combined, they share the soul of the wolf, because they all drank wolfs blood), as soon as one guy dies, another one comes back.
>>336021426
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
In your mind. Welcome to magic.
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
Not "The" Shrinemaiden. "A" ShrineMaiden.
Different dialogue and voice.
>>336021426
1. Abyss corruption
2. Got a taste for human flesh and that made him fatten up so much he literally turned into sludge. Had a vision of the Deep and started to prepare by eating gods and stealing their power.
3. Optional boss. Gwyndolin didn't canonically die.
4. The Abyss
5. Maybe Yorshka, maybe someone we'll meet in DLC.
6. Gwyn's Firstborn. Item descriptions leave no room for debate about that. Straight out call him the heir of lightning.
7. It's Gwyn and Chosen Undead fused, supposedly along with a ton of other fire linkers. Didn't happen with Gwyn because he was the first.
8. Time and space fuckery. Dark firelink is in the past. If you speak to dark firelink's handmaiden before hub firelink's, the hub firelink maiden will recognize you.
9. That's her job.
10. Looks like a darksign, so probably Humanity, yeah.
>>336021889
>Gwyndolin was an optional boss so his death was not canon.
>
>Nameless King is known just read his gear.
Nameless King is also an optional boss so any relevance you dismiss of Gwyndolin in the first game can be immediately dismissed of Nameless King in the 3rd game.
Everyone did kill Gwyndolin. It's stupid to bring him back.
After killing Lothric, I went to other areas of the game for one final check before heading to NG+. All areas except the Boreal Valley and Archdragon Peak have red skybox with the bleeding sun. It's neat and all, but what bothers me is why is Firelink's skybox not red? Lothric Castle is visible in the sky and yet the sky is clear.
Alternate world? Then how come NPCs can enter the shrine like it was part of the world?
1. Their members are tainted by the Abyss. The ones hostile to each other are the normal ones, and the ones with red eyes.
2. Eating powerful beings and turning into a blob.
3. Chosen Undead killing Gwyndolin isn't canon. He was an optional hidden boss fight.
4. Abyss. His Soul, weapon and miracle descriptions confirm this.
5. Probably Consumed King's imagination, going mad with his research into dragons in an attempt to find a worthy heir for himself.
6. Gwyn's Firstborn. Nameless King's soul, weapon and miracle descriptions, Ring of the Firstborn, DaS1 Sunlight Medal descriptions confirm this. He got removed from history books due to allying with Gwyn's arch-nemesis, dragons.
7. Soul of Cinder is the combined soul of all the previous Fire linkers, including Gwyn and Chosen Undead from DaS1. Check the Soul of the Lords description.
8. Untended Graves happens in the past. Confirmed by Gundyr's armor description. Don't know about Kiln Firelink.
No idea about 9. or 10.
>>336022000
>Not "The" Shrinemaiden. "A" ShrineMaiden.
It's the same one. If you somehow visit Untended Graves first and talk to the shrinemaiden there, then return to the regular firelink and speak to the one there for the first time, she has unique dialogue that shows she recognizes you before doing her normal introduction.
Why was Gwyn so obsessed with killing the everlasting dragons in the first place? What did they ever do to him?
>>336022075
>Untended Graves happens in the past.
This.
When you talk to the shrine maiden, she said something like "why are you here, everybody is still asleep".
You somehow travel back in time to before the bell rang and woke everybodys ashes up as unkindled undead.
>>336021426
1. They're edgy motherfuckers. They also probably lost their mind from all of that Abyss-watching, and in their delirium, see one another as pieces of The Abyss.
2. I think the religion that the Pontiff founded around him seemed to give him that title, or something. He also ate Gwyndolin, which grants some credence to the title.
3. The Gwyndolin fight may very well be non-canon.
4. The crown of Wolnir seems to have a bit of The Abyss infesting it, and within that Abysmal plane, you fight Wolnir? That is just speculation.
5. Ocelotte was a child of Oceiros, King of Lothric. He might be invisible, he might be dead, who really knows.
6. The Nameless King is speculated to be Gwyn's Firstborn.
7. I got nothing.
8. A few different theories here. The Kiln is definitely some other dimension, as is shown through DS I. As such, it probably doesn't follow the natural rules of time and space. The Untended Graves may be the future, in an Age of Dark, or it may be some forgotten past, when Champion Gundyr was unable to Link the Flame.
9. If you follow the "Untended Graves=Future" theory, it is possible she just stuck around. If you follow the "Untended Graves=Past" theory, it may be that she was meant to be Gundyr's shrinemaiden, and when he didn't show up, she just stuck around.
10. Not sure, could be The Abyss.
>>336022005
Not really.
Killing Gwyndolin was completely optional and the events of not doing so would have played out into what happens in DS3.
A optional boss fight in DS3 isn't not canon. Just the fight isn't cannon but the character is.
the dragon lady in 1 was a optional boss fight. She is still canon.
>>336022370
How do you travel in time?
All I did was beat a dragon and walk down a hallway?
I touched nothing.
>>336021689
>her husband
Who? Where? Explain?
>>336022434
Time is convoluted, ain't gotta explain shit
time and space is warped in Lordran lololol we don't gotta explain shit!
>>336022426
>>336022426
You guys are so quick to say time is convoluted for explaining retarded questions but on the case of Gwyndolin you immediately go for not canon.
It would make more sense from a story perspective to say that a different Chosen Undead could have killed Gwyndolin in a different time, but the timeline you are playing in, the Chosen Undead did not decide to kill Gwyndolin.
That makes way more sense than saying lol didnt happen.
Do you really think Miyazaki wrote out the setpieces of the game saying "yeah, lets jut retcon Gwyndolin boss fight" no, he has a reason. It's not just not canon.
>>336022651
Happening in a different timeline is just as relevant as it never happening. By that logic, everything is canon. Solaire linking is canon, Solaire not linking is canon, Solaire being corrupted is canon, etc. And it's technically right, but it doesn't matter. What matters is the world we're playing in during DS3, and the events that led to it.
>>336021426
who cares?
>>336022651
Glad someone brought this up. There is a reason for a lot of the stuff in DS III, and I think people don't really understand that. There is a reason history seems to be blatantly contradicted.
>>336021426
Is it actually confirmed that one of the Abyss Watchers is corrupted by the abyss? I got the impression that one of the Abyss Watchers understood why you were there and wanted to help you out by fighting the others.
>>336021426
>>336021689
I don't think Gwyndolin or Priscilla are really a concern as far as how did Aldritch eat bosses you killed in Darks 1 when He also has parts of Nito in him and the player character would have had to have killed Nito in order to finish the game.
>>336021426
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?It's you AND Gwyn from the first game, this is an alternate ending where you become pals and link the flame together, then after eons of jerking one another (as pals) you decide to mind meld into the same being.
>>336023069
He could have gotten the Gravelord sword just by eating somebody in the covenant, and the bones just by eating a ton of people. The aura is only an aura of death, which would fit around something like Aldrich. Really, until we have confirmation that he ate Nito, it doesn't make any sense that he did.
>>336023069
>He also has parts of Nito in him
Aldrich ate people, Nito is King Skellington the First but not all Skellingtons are Nito.
aldrich is sexy
I thought of the Untended Graves and Firelink as something like the Hunters Dream and the Workshop from Bloodborne. My suspicion is that the Untended Graves is the Firelink that exists in the real world where the Firelink that we start in is a sort of fabrication or memory. Not really sure where Kiln of the First Flame fits in to that though.
>>336023143
Technicallyyou have already melded, by taking Gwen's soul into yourself.
Holy shit, everyone who thinks Untended Graves is in the future, or an alternate world, or the true world, please fucking educate yourselves and stop with the stupid debunked theories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5mHuSFRzZM
The game seems to be going for some compression of space thing with the lands themselves being drawn together from what I gather, why not time too?
Did Aldrich consumed Nito as well? He sure uses Nito's great sword.
I just assumed that Aldrich was actually Gwyndolin
>>336022326
I suppose he was just tricked by primordial serpents who have a huge hate boner towards dragons.
Pls
>>336022036
>>336023359
That really doesn't say anything of substance.
>>336022036
magic
>>336021426
>>336023069
I thought rather than Aldritch eating the optional bosses you might have not killed, he instead just found their remains later on and devoured them then. The game never says he ate them alive and I think it is an important distinction as far as his power level goes. Could be a similar situation to how Domnhall always conveniently scooped up the boss armor after you kill a boss.
>>336023369
>time compression
>>336023542
It's unique dialogue only added if you meet the Untended handmaiden first. If you think it means anything other than her recognizing you, you're just trying to justify your own headcanon. It was placed there for a reason.
I always thought the Lord of Cinder is your player from DS1 after he linked the fire
>>336023429
Not Nito himself but obviously some sort of his soul shard. If he had the same degree of control over the power of death and disease as Nito on top of moon magic of Gwyndolin he would be impossible to kill.
>>336022003
>8. Time and space fuckery. Dark firelink is in the past. If you speak to dark firelink's handmaiden before hub firelink's, the hub firelink maiden will recognize you.
Wait seriously? Is this confirmed?
>>336023731
Here's the video >>336023359
>Acidentally do a Halberd R2 into the Untended Graves Handmaiden.
>Go back to Firelink.
>Handmaiden still there.
EXPLAIN THAT PAST THEORISTS.
>>336023248
Why is he a mermaid?
>>336023645
>If you think it means anything other than her recognizing you, you're just trying to justify your own headcanon.
I admit that much, what it doesn't say is what she recognises you as or what for.
No substance.
>>336021426
So Aldrich is that blob in the intro video? How does Aldrich go from blob form to boss form?
>>336022862
Everyone in this thread but you obviously
>>336023645
You're the one making it fit your headcanon that it's "in the past" because she "recognizes you" (thou art is pretty fucking vague mate). It could be anything, like the fact you're a multi-dimensional traveler and she's bounded to the shrine in every dimension.
>>336023773
Alternate timeline.
Do you even John Titor?
>>336023773
She's an undead, if you kill her in Firelink and rest at a bonfire she respawns and yells at you about it. Bitch can't die, same with Andre.
>>336023813
She only recognizes you if you met her in Untended Graves first. That's the trigger. Which means she's recognizing you from when you wandered in at some point in the past.
>>336023773
This is actually pretty conclusive, not gonna lie. Maybe they are different then, and being the handmaiden to firelink is like a shift of work?
They clock in and sit there for a couple hundred years and then clock out for a new one for awhile.
>>336023596
Read any items relating to the Pontiff. He was the one that captured Gwyndolin he's the one that throws him to Aldrich. So at least Gwyndolin was alive when Aldrich got him.
Probably kept Gwyndolin as a fucboi for a while.
>>336023773
Every time you kill her she raises the prices of her shop. Is it more expensive?
In first PV I didn't have high expectation to Aldrich thought he is just another gloomy slime monster.
Who could have imagine he played such a huge role in DaS3, you can say almost 70% os senario is dealing with him and his army.
>>336023821
he puts on a fancy hat and pulls the rest of his blob ass together.
>>336022426
Corvian Greatscythe refers to priscilla in present tense.
She also apparently has a whole cult of bird people wandering around road of sacrifices.
Priscilla probably gonna show up in painted world dlc
>>336021426
Alright
1. >If you look into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you"
2. He discovered Vore and it grew on him
3. Optional boss. Same for Priscilla and the other Asylum demon
4. Wolnir is trying to save himself from being sucked into the abyss (constantly grasping and moving foward). The moment you defeat him, he gets sucked in
5. Invisibible baby/ neverborn of the King. He didn't take it well either way.
6. Gwyn's firstborn and probably Ornstein mentor
7. It's an auto mechanism of defence of the Flame
8. Time is convoluted especially when the flame starts dying out
9. I honestly don't know that and it's creeping me out
10. I see manus
>>336023906
>>336023884
If >>336023884 is right, the past theory is probably right.
>>336023912
Not that I've noticed.
>>336023821
He penetrated Gwyndolin with his huge black cock and hides the rest of his own body below the boss room. It's not even known how much black goo there is down there.
>>336023932
Not really. You're dealing with the Pontiff's shit, not Aldrich's. Aldrich is his fat pet, Wouldn't surprise me if he was the one that helped Aldrich go from cleric in his religion to blob god.
>>336022326
Maybe they wanted to live in the surface and not underground like some kind of moels
>>336022036
This is ultra speculation, but the game does say that the lands of the lords of cinder converge. It does seem like they keep the same climate as where they were previously, boreal is snowy, crab woods are flooded. Presumably, the lands are still in the same place where they were previously, but by converging, you can still get to them from other places. So boreal valley may just be so far away from the fucked up sun over lothric, it isn't visible.
>>336023886
OR the Untended Graves is the future, where the fire has gone out, and she's recognizing you from the future because her eternal soul is bound to the shrine in all timelines.
>>336022651
I never killed Gwyndolin, but i did kill Andre in DS1. Why is Andre in DS3?
>>336023886
It alludes to much but says nothing.
I don't mind the theory but it needs more solid founding.
>>336024161
In that case, she would recognize you no matter what.
So in aldrich's boss room, is all the black goop on the ground aldrich's blob body, and he's merely controlling the nito/gwyndolin thing like a puppet?
>>336023907
Oh yeah true that bro.
Would this relate into that one anons theories that the different sequel games to souls are alternate universes where different endings took place in DS1 or Demon's? Because if so you could definitely argue this one as being the one where the chosen undead fully obeyed Frampt's plan to light the fire and all that.
>>336022434
The dark skies firelink is in the same point in time as the rest of darksouls, except kiln and the normal firelink.
>>336022446
Do Sirris' quest. Holy Knight Hodrick of the Mound Makers is Sirris' grandfather and husband to the merchant.
>>336023932
Is that some sort of crown amidst all that goop?
What IS the abyss exactly?
>>336021426
>Criken begins DS3 series
>Vaati is with him again
>Named his character 'Gwyn's Firstborn'
>Fat guy in Sunlight Helmet
I'll admit, I chuckled.
>>336024206
How so?
Past you is in Firelink still, where you haven't met yet, and future you makes it to Untended Graves later on. She wouldn't recognize you until you went into the future.
It's implied that the Nameless King is the first born. That's common knowledge, right?
>>336024243
It's definitely a sequel to the kindling the flame ending, that's for sure. That theory can only exist because DS2's story is so vague and unconnected though, so it's hard to place it in relation to the others.
>>336023773
If you kill her in the present she comes back with higher prices.
Which means she can't die (like the firekeeper)
>>336021426
>Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
The deep obviously
>>336024235
No, Gwyndolin is just commiting atrocities under the guise being a sockpuppet and getting away with by blaming the corpse of a saint.
If they're called the Abyss Watchers you can assume their duty is to Watch the Abyss, so the obvious question is why do they wear hats that cover their eyes?
>>336024107
Yeah I still can't believe that half of the shit is happening in the game was part of Sulyvahn's keikaku
>>336024313
Entropy.
>>336024404
Nah nah, it was the abyss, or near it. Deep would be wet.
>>336024313
Manus' Humanity going fucking bananas.
>>336023143
he's definitely reminiscent of the chosen undead + gwyn and other linkers of the flame
>>336022005
Gwendolyn is an optional boss, but he exists. Any information you get from his questline (the illusion, Gwynivere's absence, the real state of Anor Londo, anything his gear says about him) is canon, even if his death is not.
Same thing for the Nameless King. Whether or not killing him is canon, the information found about him in DS3 is canon.
>>336024313
the darkest side of man
so there are place in the dark souls world where people actually live a normal lives?
but then apocalypse happen everything get fucked until someone rekindle the fire again
what happens in the apocalypse and who and why we had kill the lord of cinder?
Dark Souls 3 Comprehensive Lore Summary:
1. From Software wanted to throw in as much fanservice as possible so the entire game mostly consists of references to the first game
2. Since they don't have to literally tell a story in their game they can just lazily connect it all together incoherently and without much effort.
3. Since the lore is just item descriptions and environmental details, players get tricked into thinking there is a lot of depth to it and they try their best to connect everything together, when in reality this format of storytelling just leaves way too many gaps so a good chunk of what people think is canon is just grasping at straws and filling in the gaps with their own headcanon.
Just stop guys, it's sad. The format of Dark Souls lore worked when it was fairly simple and straight forward with the first game but when it just needlessly tries to connect itself for fanservice there is just too much they can get away with by just vaguely throwing shit in the game for the sake of it. When it's lazily strung together like this, it gets too easy to just pass off criticism as people missing subtleties but you know it's true.
>>336021426
1. Abyssal taint. Even dragons succumb to it, it works like a parasite that burst out from a host at some point.
2. He predicted the coming of some age of deep sea and decided to accumulate as much power as possible to save his own ass.
3. You're pretty fucking delusional if you think that we really fought Gwyndolin in DS1 and not just his illusion carrying a small part of his soul. Just compare his bow skills to the real thing, in DS1 he could only shoot a small volley of arrows and in DS3 he goes full shmup on your sorry ass.
4. Have you missed the fact that catacombs of carthus are connected to headquarters of abyss watchers? It was obviously abyss sealed within that artifact.
5. Not explained. Either Yorshka or DLC.
6. Firstborn. Gwyn is dead and Firstborn was next in line so even though he rebelled against his father he's still the only one who is suited to be called a king of gods.
7. Literally an immense amount of sovereignless souls that gained some sort of primitive consciousness just because of how vast its accumulated power was.
8. They exist in either different times or different dimensions. I actually suspect that "current" firelink is the one that we only reach in the very final of the game.
9. Same reason there's multiple firelinks.
10. Dark sign. Probably connected to that thing in the skies.
What is up with the hollows worshiping trees and eventually turning into them? Something to do with the giants? Ive always wondered about the significance of them ever since the network test came out
>>336021426
More than half of these have pretty clear answers tho...
Lord of Cinder's Strength in Lore wise.
Ashen One>Chosen Undead>Aldrich>Yhorm>Abyss Watchers>Gay bros>Who Went Beyoned Death
No objection, right?
Kind of upset that you can't really visit the abyss in this game.
Hope the DLC shows it off, or maybe the Deep
>>336024679
Apocalypse happens whenever the First Flame starts to go out. Undead start appearing, they start to go Hollow, and then start fucking everything up. If it goes too long without being linked, the world itself starts to fall apart like in DaS3.
You needed to kill the Lords of Cinder to take their power so you could link the Flame again and give it more juice.
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
They went mad from hunting the abyss for so long. Maybe they realized the humanity within them is part of the abyss and so they self destructed.
>2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
He had a vision of a future without the fire, an age of deep waters. He liked what he saw and so he started to pursue that goal. Eventually he became a blob and pontiff ended up locking him in anor londo, where gwyndolin just happened to be hiding still. Eventually he found him and ate him.
>3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Optional boss means at least one player didn't kill him. Dark souls 3 takes place in that players canon.
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
Contained abyss
>5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
Ocireses last hope for a healthy heir, mixed with his research of ancient text and dragons. Possibly a great one involved as was the case with the queen of yarnam. More than likely resulted in a stillbirth, as all surrogate children of great ones do.
6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
Gwyns firstborn, stricken from history for siding with dragons.
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?
Amalgamation of previous fire linker souls.
>8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
Time is convoluted.
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
That's a younger version of her. She can not die, so she's always there.
10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
Darkness in general, to keep them blind.
What is the closest to official timeline of the series?
Armored Core to King's Field to Shadow Tower to Demon's to Darks to Bloodborne?
>>336024735
>I don't like it so you're not allowed to like it either!
See you next thread.
>rescue a prisoner
>they vanish into thin air and appear in firelink right after
If they could do that all along why wait until some faggot ashen one arrives, are there any reasons for that besides gameplay, do they need like "someone to follow" for that teleport ability to manifest? it's the PC who actually teleports them?
>>336024679
I know this answer for Dark Souls 1
During the apocalypse places are leading normal lives except some are affected by a curse that leads them to hollow. To stop everyone from hollowing you need to link the flame (hypothetically)
Who knows why we had to kill soul of cinder. maybe because Gwyn's will was the strongest to defend the first flame.
>>336023069
is this an AD reference?
>>336024898
You give them a homeward bone, it is the same effect and sound.:^)
>>336024321
I thought Vaati was great in Criken's DS2 vids - he didn't use that completely forced serious voice we know him for. Too bad Criken's latest stuff is him roleplaying a retard with stunning accuracy
WHY IS ANDRE IN FIRELINK SHRINE NIGGA YOU MUST BE LIKE THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD NOW
>>336024794
>chosen undead and bearer of the curse
>lords of cinder
You dont fucking understand this at all, do you
>>336024874
>See you next thread
You sure will :^)
>>336025079
why bother making a new model when soulsfags are more than happy to see the same one recycled? can you blame them?
ALDRITCH DID NOT EAT PRISCILLA. READ DESCRIPTIONS.
Why is the darklink handmaiden selling artorias piece?
>>336024898
It's identical to the homeward bone animation/sound. Make of that what you will
Stay at home, be a good boy.
Your big bro is gonna literally fuck the dragon.
>>336023932
Pretty much the entire game is Lothric/Ocerios and Pontiff Sulyvahns fault
>>336025079
He just really loves his craft. As long as undead is focused on something he won't go mad and Andre is the most focused undead ever. He won't succumb to the curse as long as he has that one estoc he rapes with his hammer endlessly.
>>336025079
You ever wonder about that identical stone version of andre in the moonlight butterfly tower in Das1?
Yeah.
>>336025079
>tfw he mourns his giantsmithbro in Anor Londo
Dark Souls 3 lore is like MGS5. It just needlessly tries to bring everything together for no reason but fan service. I was expecting the world/lore in this one to be more creative.
>>336025079
He Smiths some shit, when the fire is linked he goes to sleep or some shit, when the worlds going to hell, he wakes up, picks up his hammer and gets to banging that anvil. He lives for this shit, he's got a boner for forging and so he'll never hollow.
>>336025218
Imagine what could happen if Firstborn was still around and on Gwyn's side.
If someone would even thing about touching his little bro he would be annihilated in an instant.
>>336021426
My take on the Abyss Watchers:
>They are a bunch of regular enough dudes watching the abyss.
>Hear someone is coming to take them back.
>They don't want to go back.
>Hold a massive free-for-all to find a champion.
>He gets all the wolf's blood.
>>336025334
Both of these do the opposite of that other than a couple side things that are nigh meaningless.
>>336025021
>>336025021
>homeward bone animation/sound
Is it really, it's always been to fast for me to notice.
So do you actually get subtracted a bone whenever you rescue someone?
>>336025420
>So do you actually get subtracted a bone whenever you rescue someone?
No because that would be pretty bullshit for not having any.
>>336025420
No. I guess they had one of their own? It's a bit of an asspull but hey I guess they needed some kind of justification for how people who cant use bonfires to teleport get back to firelink.
>>336025381
No they are corrupted by the very thing they hunt. They attack each other because they are succumbing to the Abyss.
>>336025263
Well, Andre in DaSIII is as old as the Anor Londo Blacksmith Giant, so even if he's not the same Andre that helped the Chosen Undead, he's still old as fuck.
>>336025079
He is unkindled
Unkindled are rising from their graves
>>336025079
I think he is just a guy that managed to not go insane or die for a very long time.
>>336025218
>>336025376
>Your big bro is gonna literally fuck "with" dragon.
Why reality is so cruel.
>>336025376
>he didn't save him
>>336025525
What even are Unkindled? What sets them apart from regular undead?
>>336025183
Because it's in an alternate reality where Gundyr failed and no one (AKA Lothric) linked the fire.
The untended graves has been consumed by the abyss
>>336024313
In the first game the 3 lords find brilliant white souls, that they then use to create a world based on the power of flame.
The Furtive Pygmy (Manus) found the dark soul, which he used to create a world of dark (the abyss). Humans are derivative of the dark soul, so they naturally seek to return it. In the first game New Londo and Oolacile, both of the human cities, were the source of the abyss rising up.
Probably get to see more of this from one of the expansions, seeing as they keep hinting at Londor (probably New Londo, given it's the realm of Kaath).
>>336025376
That is kind of sad. If The Firstborn had been around, maybe Gwyndolin could have lived.
Who is this guy exactly? Where did he get that Chaos Blade before Ashen one stole it from him?
>>336025579
They're made out of ash.
They aren't traditional undead at all, they're literally reconstituted ash. It's why you bleed fucking ash.
>>336025551
At least Gwynevere probably died happily, if she's dead, she had a ton of kids and lived to see the flame being linked again.
>>336023704
>running to dodge arrow rain
>grave swords pop up in front of you
>nothing can die in this universe thanks to the undead curse
>super powerful bosses however
>they are mortal and die when some faggot eventually respawns enough times to take them down
Explain this.
>>336025659
he's a high level weeb
Not really a lore-related question, or maybe it is? but why sometimes when you arrive to Firelink there's a fog gate covering the exits as if you're getting invaded/summoned.
I think it happens both off and online.
Surely the if the game operates on a cycle, the flame will make similar things happen within each cycle? (poetry-wise)
There's always a king fallen from grace
There's always a dragonslayer
There's an aged blacksmith who's pretty good at his craft
There's always a grand cathedral of sorts.
There's a princess.
Does the flame cause these things to happen or is it just the nature of the in-game universe and thing's just happen to occur?
>>336025659
>Sword Master
>Chaos Blade
No.
>>336024107
Its confirmed, read the description of the deep braille tome you get outta cathedral.
Pontiff sully slipped perverse pages into the religious documents of the cathedral, once the holding place/sealing ground of evil. Literally everything is pontiffs fault, even the release of the abyss upon the watchers.
>>336025539
Firstborn chose his own fate, lived his life free, surpassed his own father in terms of power and died in battle. He has one of the best stories and endings in series.
>>336025743
I'm forced to assume its some kind of shitty loading screen.
>>336025745
They're just common fantasy tropes, you're overthinking it. You could draw lines between common aspects of the three games all day, and it wouldn't mean anything.
>>336025714
The souls never actually die. The lord souls just get passed down, they're always derivative of the being that came before them.
Humans also have dark souls, which function differently.
>>336025743
I take it they decided to have that area load when you are in Firelink so that the loading time to get to Firelink would be faster.
Most of the time you go to Firelink you don't need anything that's outside.
>>336025743
Loading the rest of the map so you dont have to sit through a 5 minute loading screen to level up
>>336021426
lmao who fuckin cares
>>336025807
>surpassed his own father in terms of power
No he didn't.
This isn't irrelevant to the OP but my brother in law and I came up with some funny headcannon for Smough.
>telling brother in law about Nameless King, saying he's basically first born
>continue telling him how you find Ornstein's armor there, and that the original may just be an illusion
>we start talking about Smough, I say that the only reason he stood at his post was he wanted to be a knight of Gwyn really bad
>Smough was basically "that kid" that just kind of lingered around the cool kids
>when Gywn knew shit was fucked he gave Smough the worst job
>Gwyndolin also created the Ornstein illusion to help Smough because they knew he was way too fucking incompetent to defend the throne by himself
tl;dr: Smough is a "that kid" and no one liked him.
>>336025751
Yes.
He uses chaos blade when summoned. You also get it from his corpse in untended graves.
>>336025721
>Hehe, they call me the Sword Master.
>Nothing Personal, kid.
Who's the bitch who is across the invisible bridge anyway? Why didn't she get eaten?
>>336022036
Only argument people can make to that question is that you never see anyone walk to firelink. Everyone, as far as we know, teleports there. So it could be fake, could be in a different world, could be an oversight and they forgot that skybox. Who the fuck knows
>>336025743
This
>>336025843
The assumption is most of the time you're coming back just to level up or buy things, so the outside is loaded after if you go near it to save time on the initial load.
>tfw I put a message in firelink shrine
>go to darklink shrine much later
>the same message is there with the same amount of ratings, in the same place
WHAT
ARE
THE
IMPLICATIONS
>>336025948
Even the combined power of soul of cinder and Gwyn as we fight him in DS1 ain't as over the top as shit Firstborn can do.
>>336025768
>>336023886
Fucking this. Gundyr's armor also confirms that Untended Graves is in the past.
>Gundyr, or the Belated Champion, was bested by an unknown warrior. He then became sheath to a coiled sword in the hopes that someday, the first flame would be linked once more.
>>336025956
aint headcannon.
Thats basically what actually happenned in game. At least Smough was honored in Death, his armor being displayed at the gallery of irithyll
>>336025996
She implies at one point that pontiff captured her...
Headcanon says that she was next after Aldritch finished digesting.
>>336025996
Yorshka, Gwyndolin's 'sister'. Despite his father being dead and him living in the city where the one woman who looks like her is guarded and that she named her, she's his 'sister.'
>>336026079
>whatdidyouaboutmeyoulittlebitch.jpb
>what did you about me you little bitch
gj
>Untended Graves is the past.
It's the present, Firelink Shrine is the future. UG connects to Lothric Castle where FS would connect if FS was the present.
>>336022651
>It would make more sense from a story perspective to say that a different Chosen Undead could have killed Gwyndolin in a different time, but the timeline you are playing in, the Chosen Undead did not decide to kill Gwyndolin.
>That makes way more sense than saying lol didnt happen.
The fuck? No it doesn't.
The story is just that Gwyndolin wasn't killed by the Chosen Undead. That's not an impossible thing to fathom; that's just how it played out for how Das3's story was written.
By your logic, if I killed Patches in Dark Souls, why isn't he dead here? Or Andre, you can off that fucker as well. The canon is as Miyazaki states; that's the definition of canon.
>>336025768
What did Pontiff have to do with the Abyss Watchers? To me, it seemed like those two parts felt a little disconnected from one another.
>>336022075
>>336022370
I don't believe this is true, though I admit Gundyr's gear is a bit odd. It would APPEAR as though it's in the past, but remember: Untended Graves is the ONLY version of Firelink that's attached to the actual world.
Also of note: when you bring the firekeeper's eyes back, Ludleth all but admits that the version of firelink you're in is constructed.
>>336025263
I believe in an interview or the design works it was explained that those are different people, they just used Andre's model as a hint for who the player should give the ember to. Pretty dumb regardless.
OKAY
So darklink shrine is in the past
Why the fuck do you go to it? Why is it connected to the main geography of the game, whereas firelink shrine isn't? Is the entire fucking game set in the past?
>>336026247
Nothing? Not EVERYTHING is related to Sully, you know.
>>336023056
He has red eyes, just like all the abyss corrupted enemies (like those hollows that transform into black spludge). Plus he attacks you as well, he just attacks the closest target
>>336025714
Not NOTHING. Only those actually afflicted by the Undead Curse, which was never 100% of the population. You can tell someone had the undead curse by the big swirling sphincter of darkness on their back in hollow form, the Darksign.
The bosses aren't undead cursed. Thus, they die for real real and not for play play
>>336025956
That's hardly a headcanon. It's basically entirely true.
>>336023359
its not in the fucking past
its literally the real one
the illusion realized you met the real one and has a brain fart
>>336025659
More importantly, why the fuck is he in the untended graves? Did he fight Gundyr and beat him, and after discovering nobody was waiting for him in the firelink, stayed there until the hollowing kicked in?
>>336026006
Watch the opening cinematic very very carefully.
You can see the firekeeper at the room you start at in lothric castle putting on her visor.
The attendent at dark fireling makes reference to "the cursed girl"
Put two and two together.
Dark Firelink is the real one, whilst the one we use is most likely a physical manifestetion created by the firekeeper, based on her memories of dark firelink.
The place probably transcends the boundaries of space and time, while being grounded very much in reality by the links to all the bonfires, hence why npcs slip in and out of it, because they too use the bonfires.
Our firelink is an extension of the firekeepers psyche, anon.
>>336026120
She's not his sister. She just is repeating the Darkmoon mantra which was created by Gwyndolin.
>>336024323
Then she wouldn't recognize you at all since she would be present/past herself in Firelink along with you.
>>336026391
I'm not saying Pontiff has anything to do with The Abyss Watchers, I was asking the anon why they thought Pontiff was, which was implied through the whole "everything is Pontiffs fault, even the release of the Abyss."
>>336026262
>Also of note: when you bring the firekeeper's eyes back, Ludleth all but admits that the version of firelink you're in is constructed.
He doesn't. All he says is that the eyes showed a possible world without Fire, therefore he got scared and decided to link the Fire in order to stop it from happening. This is an undisputed fact too as he sees nightmares about burning if you kill him, then return to Firelink to see him resurrected and crying in his sleep.
>>336025245
>inb4 at the and of the game, after doing all the dlc, he's gone and in his place you find a +11 estoc
>>336026558
but she exists in all timelines simultaneously; you don't
>>336026262
I wrote this and after watching the video
>>336026301
is the only possible explanation I can see as possible.
I honestly just don't know. How do people find themselves in this "Nexus"-like firelink that you meet in the technical past?
It's all very odd
>>336026519
I think he's just a random awoken Unkindled that went hollow.
>How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Why's people even asking this so much?
It's clear canonically you just didn't fight him or he was yet another illusion.
Or maybe you didn't kill him just weakened him and that's why he falls ill.
How exactly did Gundyr fail?
In his prime he could have kicked any lord of cinders ass
>>336026747
>bested by an unknown warrior
>>336026732
he was canonically in Anor londo. It's stated he was the last living deity there.
>>336026747
He was too late to link the fire bro. Not that he was incapable.
>>336026680
Unless she's traveling back and forth in time than no, present her cannot know what future her knows.
Untended Graves is in the past, fucking deal with it until you bring forth information that she's somehow moving thru time of her own accord.
>>336026747
He showed up too late. He was late to the party and someone else was handling it, so he got super sad and just waited for someone to show up.
>>336026747
Parried to hell and back by either player or this guy >>336025659
>>336026849
Still doesn't mean CU ever killed him.
>>336026247
The abyss, the spread of it is/was stamped out By the chosen undead, and bearer of the curse.
Sully is seen to have ties with the abyss due to his use of his deep clones, a technique used by four kings and Darklurker.
These show he has power/uses the abyss.
the deep braille tome also tells tales of dark miracles/sorceries. The dark hexes and such.
Things only found in post-abyss fucked oolacile.
Needless to say, with darkwraiths in such close proximity to the cathedral as well, and Sully's use of Abyss clones in his fight, its easy to see he meddled with Abyss watchers on his way to irithyll.
HE KEEPS GETTING WORST THE MORE YOU LOOK INTO IT
>>336026421
Vendrick in DS2 disappears after you kill him despite him being undead.
>>336026639
I was almost positive he says something to the effect that BECAUSE of the the world he saw in the firekeeper's eyes he constructs the current version of firelink. I could also be wrong, I mean that video posted in the thread seems to prove me wrong about Untended being the future, as it only makes sense to be the past.
But that means current firelink would be the future. So then shouldn't the Dark-Sign in the sky be there from the very beginning, as that WILL eventually happen? Time is confusing...
>>336026926
Not saying you're entirely wrong but Abyss =/= Deep.
>>336026924
Ii wasn't addressing that part but I agree
>>336026747
How did he show up too late if he's in the PAST FUCK I DONT UNDERSTAND
>>336024794
>Who Went Beyoned Death
BEARER. OF. THE. CURSE.
Jesus christ.
>>336027062
Orbital wobble
>>336024323
this level of headcanon and delusion is why its impossible to discuss the lore of these games. you get an otherwise simple answer to a vague question posed by the game and then mongoloids come in offering needlessly complicated alternatives and act as though that is somehow more likey
At least bloodborne had some pretty concrete lore and very little speculation regarding what the old ones/nightmares were, but dark souls is written to be as convoluted and unintelligible as possible. Its literally the Donnie Darko of video games that pseudo intellectual 20 somethings flock to
>>336026926
Don't forget that Sully also has the same face and wings as Pilgrim Butterflies, highly advanced abyss spawns.
>>336027062
It was too late to link the fire, world was consumed by dark age, he got corrupted by the abyss.
>>336026664
my sides
>>336027062
There are multiple Ages of Fire, anon.
>>336026920
Sword Master gets decimated if you summon him for Gundyr
Speaking of, how is the sword master even at the untended graves?
>>336027062
He showed up too late for the previous linking of the flame, you kicked his ass, and he just sat there with the coiled sword through his chest until the next linking, the current one.
>>336026926
Can we get a tally of everything this motherfucker has done/may have done?
>Stole the dancer
>Fucked his own soldiers up mentally
>Fed gods to a disgusting blob
>Fucked with The Abyss
>Seems to have fucked up The Abyss Watchers
What an asshole.
>>336023812
He's not. He's sludge. Do you remember what the floor was made out of when you fought Aldrich? Sludge.
THAT was Aldrich.
>>336026976
Someone already posted this theory somewhere, but
Untended Graves = Past (the whole game world might happen in past)
Regular Firelink = Current time or separated from the "real world"
Flameless Shrine = Future (the different lands literally converge and are sucked together even more)
>>336027062
>fires keep going out throughout time
>people keep showing up to deal with it
>Gundyr was too slow, someone else was dealing with it
>got sad and decided to throw a tantrum when you showed up
>gets bodied by you again in the future / your timeline
It's not that hard anon.
>>336026849
So what?
You definitely didn't kill him canonically.
What was the Pontiff's plan anyway? Using Aldrich to stop the kindling of the Flame?
>>336027206
>>336027175
But you show up in the FUTURE but it's not too late FOR YOU? Do you see how this doesn't make sense? How is he too late when there's enough time for you, the player character, to do it. And he didn't seem too corrupted in Untended Graves
>>336027325
Crashing Lothric, with no survivors.
>>336027291
so really it's more like a copy of the last giant/giant lord in dark souls 2
>>336027363
You show up in a different Age of Fire. Completely different flamelinking going on.
>>336027264
>Seems to have fucked up The Abyss Watchers
No?
The abyss watchers have become internally corrupt by their constant fight against, you know, the abyss. They're literally following in Artorias's footsteps, they're all becoming corrupt fighting the abyss just like he did.
When you enter the bossfight, you're entering on a giant brawl between the abyss corrupted Watchers and the normal watchers. Note how when a second watcher joins the battle, he is basically identical to the primary watcher, and the two do not fight. Then suddenly a THIRD watcher joins, this one with GLOWING RED EYES, and immediately one of the "normal" watchers peel off to go fight it.
Like seriously this is the most unambiguous question posed in Das3, there need not be any debate on it.
>>336027467
Pretty much, yeah.
>>336027325
guess he might have been preparing for the deep or something, I still don't know what those wings he grows are supposed to be for
>>336026664
>he appears in final battle of final DLC when you struggle against unbeatable enemy and goes full Kittan with his Estoc, absolutely faceraping everything on his way so you could actually fight the boss
>>336027493
The abyss watchers are panicking after the reappearence of the Darkwraiths.
Two of them literally are making their way to the boss chamber when you get there.
>>336027493
The anon I was replying to was implying that the spread of The Abyss was being artificially quickened by Pontiff, which inadvertently affects The Abyss Watchers.
>>336027684
>reappearance
>implying they ever left
It's outright stated that the one locked underneath High Wall has been there for a very long time. The Darkwraiths never went anywhere, there's just never been an exceptionally large amount of them.
Also I'm pretty sure the Abyss Watchers aren't panicking about anything other than the corruption of their own ranks. They're a bit preoccupied.
>>336026870
Did you read the post, dude? Guy claimed she exists in all timelines. Simultaneously. She's omnipresent, because "convoluted lol".
Which may or may not be true, but if it IS true, then she is aware of herself and her experiences past, present and, more importantly, future.
Also, why all this discussion about time as a forward-moving entity? What if all the Firelinks in game exist at the same time, superimposed upon each other? If time is truly convoluted, that implies some massive quantum fuckery, not just time travel.
>>336027684
>The abyss watchers are panicking after the reappearence of the Darkwraiths.
No they aren't, they're too busy fighting each other. They probably don't even know they're here because half of the watchers in the keep are infected by the abyss
And even if the Darkwraiths did make it to them they'd still get ganked
>>336027798
Yeah well he's wrong. I couldn't be fucked explaining why because he's just really fucking wrong.
>>336027127
In Jap's faraam armor discription it implies Bearer of the curse is the one who beyond death.(絶望をくべる者)
>>336027283
I would have to agree with this.
I would assume that the version of firelink you're in isnt real at all (again, I can't remember exactly what Ludleth says, but it would maybe explain why he seems so weakened: since he's using all of his power to create an entirely different world).
Pros:
-This explains why the darksign sky never shows up/isn't always there
-Explains why firelink isn't EVEN DARKER than untended (since untentded is the past, if normal firelink is in the future, you'd expect it to be even darker)
Cons:
-Doesn't really explain why the handmaiden recognizes you like the video shows. It would seem to imply a past/future relationship, or at the very least that they're the same person.
-Doesn't explain why the normal firelink version of Gundyr has Pus of Man coming out of him.
I do want to add that we could get more head-canon-y here and say that it's not out of the realm of possibility that the normal version of firelink Gundyr is meant as a proving ground (you fight him for the coiled sword, which will then let you warp to the normal world, proving you're at least a little worthy). It's obvious that this was not the intention of Champion Gundyr, who seems to have some to firelink to light the flame but got there "too late" (which, how? if you're not too late).
All in all, it's confusing, and we obviously don't have definitive answers. I don't even think I agree with myself.
So is that "annals of history" thing really a mispronunciation or just a rumor?
I haven't seen any proof.
So wait, if UG is in the past then why are the chests that you open in FL still open when you go there? Like the chest with the Covetous Silver Serpent ring for example.
>>336027209
How is he alive but Hollow in Cemtery of Ash yet a corpse in Untended?
>>336028032
Who gives a fuck what one random piece of armours description in japanese says, the MC of Das2 is Bearer of the Curse.
Most important question:
>How the fuck was Havel the Rock still alive?
>>336027853
Then she should be selling me her best shit without me bringing her ashes because I've already brought her the ashes, and at max price because I've "killed" her a bunch.
If it's true then it's pretty weird and a little dumb, but fuck it that's all time travel stuff.
As for them all existing at once like that, that's some theoretical shit I'm not smart enough to even begin guessing at.
Why do the dickwraiths even want to fight the Abyss Watchers?
The Watchers are fucked into endlessly killing each other in a room, theres no threat from them anymore
>>336028219
that wasn't havel the rock, just another imitation
>>336028175
Pretty sure that chest is empty no matter what you did with the silver serpent ring chest in FL, obviously whoever put the ring in the chest hadn't done it yet.
>>336021426
Ocelette is Yorshka.
>>336028264
I guess they want to tip the scales in favour of the abyss corrupted watchers? I mean I imagine having to fight the big one whos absorbed the souls of all the other watchers wouldn't be too pleasant.
>>336028320
Well, I can't confirm this but I remember an Anon in another thread saying that if you don't open the chest in FL then it will have the ring in it when you go to UG. I'd be interested to see if that's true because it would make the past-theory a little less believable.
>>336028264
If they ever get their shit together they're firm foes of the abyss
>>336028442
God I hope that isn't true
That'd just fuck with everything
Hang on I think I have a character who never opened that chest, I'll go check.
>>336028204
>random piece of armours description
are you serious?
>>336028229
Assuming that theory is true, she does have all the ashes. In the future. Which, until you reach it, you're not part of. SHE exists in all timelines. You do not. You have to experience time normally.
She can't pull shit from the future to sell you in the past. She's bound by your presence. Get it?
>>336028264
>theres no threat from them anymore
not all of them are corrupted by the abyss, they are still capable of fighting it. The dickwraiths are just taking advantage of the disarray to try and finish them off
>>336028580
I get it, but I don't like it.
>>336028219
>>336028274
See, I saw him. In front of a fucking dead dragon, and he doesn't drop Havel's ring (which specifically states that havel never used it) and thought "this is the real Havel". This is also the very first time we've fought a person wearing Havel's set where they literally use magic to become a fucking rock.
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he left with Orenstein to go fuck up some dragons and bring back the nameless king/faraam/whatever
