Dark Souls 3 lore thread?
Dark Souls 3 lore thread.
A lot of people are saying the game is half finished and that you should expect the answers in the DLC, but every From game so far has had supplementary lore in their DLC, and not actual answers (AotA explained that the abyss is bad and Manus is the furtive pygmy, Lost Crowns was basically DS2 repeats itself, Old Hunters was what happens when you get blood drunk and get sent to Hunter's Nightmare) so I want to try and discuss things that we actually might know and not chalk it up to "the angels are serpents and it'll be in the Londor DLC".
How did Aldrich get back into Irithyll without his magic doll?
Why does Pontiff turn his best knights into beasts?
Why are there 5 Irithyll beasts in Lothric?
Who/why/what the fuck is Ocelotte?
Why are the evangelists from Cathedral of the Deep going into the undead town and fucking shit up? Why are they bringing undead to the road of sacrifice to be turned into Bloodborne werewolves or eaten by swamp slugs?
Untended Graves isn't Ludleth's Firelink, and our Firelink isn't fake.
It's actually the Firelink that belongs to Prince Lothric. It's the shrine that he never went to as a prince because he wanted to let the fires fade (indicated by his dialogue and being ravaged by the curse).
Furthermore, Champ's descriptions all state that he waited for someone to arrive to judge them, but no one ever showed up. Also, if you visit your starting grave, you pick up the Ashen Estus Ring. It states that Gwynevere (mother of Lothric) left the ring there to aid the Unkindled, so she had access to it. It would make sense that she has access to her son's Firelink if the Firelink belonged to him.
It might also explain the ties to the black knights there, if Gwynevere had access to the area.
To elaborate, I think all the areas that you visit in the game are ripped from various universes, because it is "the transitory lands". So it would make sense that you are the champion of your own Firelink, but you can also see the Firelink of another Lord.
Thoughts? Certainly a lot better than "Ludleth made a fake firelink because reasons"
Im sick of all this shit fucking gwyn's family soap opera bullshit. Gwyn did this, gwyn's mother's sister's step-son's daughter did that. Fuck that shit. Best thing introduced in the series is the Pontiff's shit cuz it was actually something new and interesting
>>335924019
>Aldrich without his doll
Does it matter? Aldrich is the saint of the deep, that Sulyvahn is the pope of. He probably just let him in or something.
>Why does Pontiff turn his best knights into beasts
It's implied that the knights are going feral from abyss corruption in the same way that Artorias went feral. That's why they all kinda fight in the same crazy style.
>Why are there 5 Irithyll beasts in Lothric
Why not? Same reason there are black knights all over in the first game, in the third game, and why Heide knights were all over in the second game. They probably just roamed because they were feral
>Who/Why/What the fuck is Ocelotte?
Ocelotte is Oceiros' son. Oceiros and Gwynevere had at least 4 confirmed children (Lothric, Lorian, Gertrude, and Ocelotte) and Rosaria is either Gwynevere reborn or their 5th child. Their line is fucked up for various reasons (Gertrude listened to "angels" that were actually Primordial Serpents and got locked away, Lothric took on Lorian's curse out of brotherly love, Lothric was too weak to perform the linking of the fire and chose not to, and Rosaria is Rosaria). It was their destiny to do something about the fire but they never did anything. Ocelotte was, for all intents and purposes, the true last hope of the Oceiros line.
Oceiros effectively became Seath 2.0/Aldia 2.0 and experimented with dragon research to make himself and his child immortal. It's implied that the Irithyll dungeon's prisoners are failed dragon experiments.
Ocelotte is more or less dead or never existed. Any crying you hear is Oceiros being delusional, as indicated by his crying before you enter the fog wall. Half way through the fire he thinks you kill his child and he goes berserk.
>Why are the evangelists...
They're evangelists of the deep. Aldrich, saint of the deep, was originally a massive cannibal. He ate so many people he became more than just bloated and turned into a fat blob. The evangelists lead undead to him to be eaten.
>>335924734
Lorian took on Lothric's curse*
>>335924734
where did you get the information that oceiros is gwynevere's husband and lothric and lorian are their sons? and where's gertrude mentioned? Despite that I liked your theory
Might be an easy question but who exactly are the firekeepers? Where do they come from and how do they become one? What exactly are bonfires? Why do undead respawn at them?
>>335924734
While we're on Oceiros, why is a guy scientifically turning himself into a dragon not a bigger deal? Even Aldia couldn't pull that shit off.
>>335924734
Don't forget that the Dancer also has some connection to Rosaria/gwynevere, you can transpose her soul into a miracle that is the "lite" version of bountiful sunlight.
>>335925732
Off the very top of my head, I think it's mentioned in the divine blessing. I think divine blessing says some ambiguous queen of Lothric is where the blessings come from, but the tool tip is identical otherwise to Dark Souls 1, and instead of queen of Lothric, straight up says Gwynevere.
I believe there are more obvious item texts but that's off the very top of my head.
>>335926063
I don't think there is an easy answer for that. Dark Souls 1's Fire Keeper Soul says they're the "corporeal manifestation of her bonfire", and that their soul is what you offer humanity to (and what humanity feeds on).
I think bonfires are links to the first flame. So, different parts of the first flame. That would probably make sense seeing how you can't make a bonfire just anywhere. And it's my understanding that not all undead respawn at them. Only the Chosen undead, who cannot go hollow, will spawn at them (hollowing is just a metaphor for insanity, that is, the Chosen undead goes "hollow" when the player gives up, or, in a sense, never respawns).
>>335926474
I don't know to be honest. I guess the fact he went insane probably didn't do him any favors? Aldia managed to stay sane and be a lore dump so he has that going for him.
>>335926597
Yeah, it Dancer's armor ()specifically the veil) also mentions she's part of the royal family. She might be another child, I don't know.
>>335926795
alright, I would agree, but the Ring of the Sun Princess from Drk Souls 1 says
'The Princess of Sunlight Gwynevere left
Anor Londo along many other deities,
and later became wife to Flame God Flann.'
with that said, do you think Oceiros might be Flame God Flann?
Who is the nameless king?
>>335925732
Forgot Gertrude. The Divine Pillars of Light miracle says that Gertrude is the "Heavenly Daughter" and holy maiden to the Queen, and that she was visited by an angel, which became a heretical faith in Lothric. There are numerous statues in the Dragonslayer Armor area and beyond of angelic-looking Primordial Serpents.
Now that I think about it, Gertrude might not actually be a daughter of Oceiros, just her title is "Heavenly Daughter" (like daughter of the angels or something). So scratch the one about her being a daughter. The point about Lothric/Lorian and Ocelotte still stands.
>>335927592
I considered that but there are other examples that imply that Gwynevere is the queen of Lothric. The Sun Princess Ring in her room past Aldrich says that she left her home and raised several heavenly children (Lothric/Lorian 100% look like Gwyndolin, and Rosaria too to a degree).
Furthermore, Divine Blessing in Dark Souls one specifically refers to Gwynevere as the "symbol of bounty and fertility". Divine Blessing in Dark Souls 3 says "The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty."
I think there are other examples from the various boss souls you can turn in for miracles, but I'd have to go looking them up again.
>>335927638
Son of Gwyn. There's like 7 item descriptions that more or less say that he was outcasted for siding with the dragons (explaining why his statues are missing in Dark Souls 1), the possession of his lightning miracles, and that Ornstein was one of his knights who went looking for him after he went to Arch Dragon peak. (The Ornstein you fight in Anor Londo is implied to be an illusion by Gwyndolin because Smough's armor says he's the last knight to have defended Anor Londo)
>>335924052
>Gwynevere (mother of Lothric)
wait what?
>>335928363
See
>>335926795
>>335928147
tldr divine blessings, various miracles
>>335928559
Interesting.
>>335928147
That makes sense, I was convinced that Gwynevere was queen of Lothric but the item description for the Ring of the Sun Princess was knocking on my head, I'm pleased now. I was thinking that the Dancer of the Boreal Valley was Gwynevere's daughter aswell, since she's related to royalty and Anor Londo in some sense, since Irithyll is the lower part of it.
>>335928870
Yeah it's entirely possible Dancer is Gwynevere's daughter too. At the very least, there is some sort of tie to her. Thanks for reminding me about that.
>>335928363
For me that is weird....she left Anor Londo to move basically next door? The locations are basically the same.
>>335929469
The land of Lothric converges the path of the lords, so the land might be shifted, we can't say Anor Londo and Lothric are close. Someone or something says 'the very nature of this land is weird', the same happens to time in Dark Souls 1
Gwynevere boss in DLC that does tit slams.
>>335926597
Rosaria is not Gwynevere
reminder that Archdragon Peak is a dream
>>335929469
Well there are two answers for this. The first is that Irithyll and Anor Londo are actually relatively far away. You cannot see Irithyll/Anor Londo from Firelink Shrine/Lothric Castle (firelink being just outside the walls of Lothric). Just because they might seem close because you can walk there doesn't mean they are actually close because it does take some time to get there. Furthermore, it's implied in the games that the distance you travel when you run from zone to zone isn't necessarily reflective of the actual distance you've traveled. First instance, in Dark Souls 2, you can see Heide's Tower of Flame at a distance from Majula, but it's really a very short walk. Drangleic Castle is also a very short walk, despite constantly being in the horizon. There's probably some better examples in Dark Souls 1 since DS2 is kinda black sheepish, but you get my point.
The other answer is there are implications that Dark Souls 3's locations are pulled together from various parts of the world from separate timelines or universes.
For starters, the intro cinematic states that you're in "Where the transitory lands of the Lords of Cinder converge." Furthermore, you have some areas, such as Carthus Catacombs, that say that the surrounding area is different than what it actually is. Carthus, in particular, was apparently a desert kingdom, but we know it's surrounded by a swamp and then Irithyll.
You also have things such as the height level disjoint between Lothric Castle and Undead Settlement. If you look closely past Vordt, you can see that the area you get picked up by the Anor Londo gargoyles is actually a bridge that was connected to Undead Settlement, but Lothric Castle is weirdly way above it, as though they weren't positioned correctly when warped in.
Finally, the existence of two Firelink Shrines (three counting the Kiln's) implies that a Firelink may have been warped in with Lothric Castle, right next to your own Firelink Shrine.
>>335930246
Does Rosaria have something to do with the old chaos covenant?
So is Dragonslayer Armor an illusion too? (Since we find Ornstein's armor in Archdragon Peak). And just what exactly is he?
>>335930407
smough
>>335930407
he is being controlled by the tree dragons
he is not a living being at all, literally just armour
>>335924019
>his best knights into beasts?
>best
No, it's a knights who were send out of his land
More likely he hoped that they will never return
>>335930392
probably
Why people keep saying that Aldrich was forced to link the fire and not did it willingly?
>>335924558
Well Gwen is like Zeus and family drama is pretty much what Zeus is all about
>>335930407
I think it's a generic set of Dragonslayer Armor. There's no real reason that there's only one Dragonslayer and it's only Ornstein.
The soul of the Dragonslayer Armor says that it's being reanimated by the Pilgrim Butterflies (flying undead dragon/nervous system things)
>>335930258
You say that based on the fact that the scenario changes? I don't think it's a dream since we can see it from Irithyll Dungeon. The scenario might change because Nameless King is a god (precisely Dragonslayer God of War), so I think he could have the powers to do whatever pleases him to the land.
>>335927638
Ornstein but also illusion Solaire.
>>335930643
you literally fall asleep to travel there
>>335930643
Don't forget that it's incredibly sunny there, despite the fact that 1. It's night time in Irithyll/Anor Londo 2. The sun in later points of the game has a Dark Sign over it and the sky changes color. This is visible anywhere else you can see the sun (IE including outside of Lothric)
>>335930381
Please dont start talking about DS2.
>>335923515
How come if you kill Emma and the Dancer early, she still teleports you to the castle after killing the other bosses? Was she even real or a hologram?
In terms of the timeline, how far ahead is Dark Souls 3 from 1? And where does 2 fit in the timeline? There's some things that contradict each other, for example: kingdoms and lands like Catarina, Carim, Anor Londo, still exist in DS3 implying it takes place not long after the events of DS1. And in DS2 we're told that many kingdoms have risen and fell since, which implies that millenia have passed before the events of DS2. But then we have characters like Yhorm, who is implied to be the descendant (not just son) of the Giant Lord (see Yhorm's soul & cinders). So this doesn't make sense chronologically. Any ideas?
>>335930969
This might connect even more Nameless King to the sun/Gwyn. Archdragon Peak could have some sort of enchantment on it to be invisible from Anor Londo/Irithyll, since I think the Sun's Firstborn don't want any business with his family, but I might be just spacing out.
>>335930246
Chill, i ain't saying one is the other, that "/" should be read as "or".
Honestly, i liked the theory some other anon threw into a lore thread last week, where Rosaria is a daughter of Gwynevere's marriage with Flann, Oceiro's wife and mother to the Dancer&co, making the item descriptions that mention the queen of Lothric's disappearance point to bailiff sillyman abducting her or the Dancer and blackmailing either one or the other into submission. Plus, divine blessing's mention the queen was a symbol of fertility which explains the ungodly amount of cribs in her chamber.
>>335931717
DS2 was an illusion...a 60 dollar illusion.
How did Pontiff get away with it all?
He's a fucking madman
>>335931449
It had better lore than DS3, meme-kun.
>>335931718
You can see it from Anor Londo. The thing is huge.
>>335932203
I mean, I could understand if DS2 was just retconned, but the fact that they still tied it into DS3 confuses me. Also, finding Gilligan at the Profaned Capital was funneh
time and space bends in Lordran lol
So why can you hear voices when you stand still in a silent room?
Is your character insane, is it just part of the curse or what?
>>335932364
Then I am totally spacing out, I think you can see it from where the fight clubs takes place, just before Pointiff's bonfire. Totally wrong lol
>>335931707
Dunno. Oversight? Maybe just in case on your first playthrough you magically kill Dancer first, and then the 3 lords later and you have no idea where you're supposed to go. Probably just bad coding.
>>335931717
Dark Souls 1 is meant to be the second time the First Flame starts dying, with Gwyn being the first Lord of Cinder. The Chosen Undead is the first possible person to become the second Lord of Cinder (you might go dark ending though, so maybe not the second).
Dark Souls 2 takes place far away from Lordran many many millennia into the future. Dark Souls 2 DLC takes place in between Dark Souls 1 and 2.
Dark Souls 3 takes place some relatively indiscernible amount of time after Dark Souls 2 (even longer after Dark Souls 1). The cinematic states that in this time period, the fire has gone an incredibly long time without being linked, longer than ever before. It rings a special bell (probably a Bell of Awakening from the first game) to raise five of the previous Lords of Cinder to make them relink the fire to preserve itself. But the lords of cinder don't want that and abandon their duty (save Ludleth), so it reanimates you, an Unkindled One, to go around and kill them and bring back their souls to rekindle the fire.
So, to answer your question, it takes place long after 1 and 2. The reason you see older places again is because they probably did not disappear with DS2 because DS2 does not take place in Lordran, while DS3 (to a degree) does. And characters like Yhorm are Lords of Cinder who came some time after Dark Souls 1 (and probably 2) who were reanimated to link the fire.
>>335932602
What? When you are hollow or all the time.
I did notice that if you are hollow you dont cast any shadow but no voices.
>>335932737
Gotcha. Thanks anon. I didn't play the crowns DLC so I don't know what happens there, but I assume it's more or less the same as in DS1 where we go back in time.
>>335932602
you have schizophrenia man
>>335932602
I think you can hear voices in every game whenever you stand in a silent room. At the very least, I know you can in Bloodborne. It's just an atmospheric thing and I wouldn't give it much thought.
>>335933097
Crowns DLC is more or less "Dark Souls 2 happens a lot". You have a kingdom with a king during an age of fire, and then a fragment of Manus shows up as a woman and loves the king and makes them do bad things, and then there's a dark age.
So yeah, more or less go back in time.
>>335924734
So when Gwynevere left Anor Londo she went with Oceiros ? Where´s is she in Das 3 ? Oceiros, Lotric, Lorian and Gertrude are all there. I dont thing Queen Lotric is Gwynevere
>>335924734
>"angels" that were actually Primordial Serpents
Sauce ?
>>335933521
there are statues around that show the primordial serpents with feathered wings
>>335925732
In the Winged Angel armor she is mentioned. You can alsoFind her later in game
>>335924052
>>335925732
This, it al makes sense excep that gwynevere is the queen.
>>335933379
According to the Divine Blessing (I think there may be another item but this is enough): "After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared.".
So, quietly disappeared could mean anything I guess. Dead, turned into Rosaria, ran away, used camouflage to turn into a statue in Yorshka Church, maybe kidnapped by the serpents.
>>335933521
There are a LOT of statues around Lothric Castle between Dragonslayer of angelic-looking beings that are actually primordial serpents.
Here's another picture: http://i.imgur.com/kudTnxL.jpg
>>335933379
She left again...the girl is a terrible mom.
Also, who the fuck is the dragon thing in the tower, is she her sister? Or she is just crazy...and where the fuck is Pricilla? And dont tell me is her, because Pris was cute.
>>335933031
I'm pretty sure you don't need to be hollow but maybe it has to do with the dark sign.
I'll have reach NG++ or make a new character and test it.
>>335933180
I'm NOT crazy!
A friend was watching me play through the Steam stream thing and confirmed it wasn't just me going insane!
>>335933227
If that's the case then it's very disappointing.
I spent half an hour going up and down the Firekeepers tower behind Firelink because I could swear there must be an NPC hidden somewhere there making those noises.
Then later I got tricked by Patches and I assumed he was the one hidden and doing the sounds but even after I killed him the sounds were still there.I just wanted to find a cute Maiden In Black firekeeper that was still alive and hidden in some weird corner crying and I could save her and make her mine, is that too much to wish for? ;_;
>>335933894
That's Yorshka, new Captain of the Darkmoon Blades. She says she's the sister of Gwyndolin (and by extension Gwynevere). She also says that Sulyvahn imprisoned her in that tower. Some people say that it's implied that the invisible bridge is camouflaged by Gwyndolin to hide access to her, but there's not necessarily proof of that so your excuse as to why she's alive and not eaten by Aldrich is as good as mine.
Priscilla is probably in the Painted World. It's implied that optional bosses weren't killed in the first game (because Gwyndolin was still alive to be eaten by Aldrich). Furthermore, it's never specifically stated that Aldrich ate her. He only dreamed of her existence. The fact that he has control of Gwyndolin's body, bow, spells, and Nito's attire but can only make a Lifehunt miracle implies that he never actually got to her.
So maybe she's alive and will be in the DLC.
That being said, at one point in the game's development, you could obtain "crossbreed" clothes from the Irithyll dungeon. So at one point in the game's development she might've been prisoner or dead. But now she has a chance of being alive.
I am referring to this imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/olgvn.
>>335934229Yes, different universes and all that
There are feathers in Gertrude cage, and the cage looks like a bird cage.In his research Ocerios fucked a winged serpent and shes a deformed bird ...?
>>335923515
What the fuck is an unkindled
It's clearly different from being an undead because you can't hollow unless you get branded with the curse by Yoel of Londor, and there appear to be very few actual undead left.
Is an unkindled one simply a chosen undead that failed to link the fire? Perhaps they're men and women who died without ever gaining the darksign, and were branded with an artifical darksign so that they may be better kindling for bonfires
The homeward bone and bone ash both heavily imply that bonfires are made and maintained with the burning bodies of the undead.
Perhaps with so few true undead left the unkindled are put to better use attempting to kill the lords of cinder
So /v/, why aren't we marrying her?
She has more noble blood then lucky Anri would ever have, that's for sure.
>>335934634
I don't know. You are right, they are clearly different from undead because they can't hollow without a Dark Sigil. The most that we know really is that they're a sort of police used by the First Flame to seek out and kill the Lords of Cinder for not performing their duties and linking the flame.
But, they can perform duties that an actual undead can do. That is, they can choose to link the fire, they can choose to become the dark lord, and they can also steal the flame for themselves (dark lord ending 2.0? I don't actually know what that entails) or they can kill the flame and end the world.
So yeah, dunno.
Are there any other bells in the game aside from the ones in Archdragon Peak?
>>335933227
Remember how the half dragon cute is also invisible unti you hit her? The baby may as well be true.
>>335934634
I personally think the unkindled are what happened when an undead was first infused with faint heat by a king that never took the throne.
>>335935024
In the painted world of Dark Souls 1.
>>335934935
>But, they can perform duties that an actual undead can do
Well, it's implied that gaining the souls from the lords of cinder allows you to transcend your status as unkindled. You're able to "link the fire" because all that means is returning the lord souls to the first flame (by acquiring their power and sacrificing your form).
They can let the fire go out through inaction, but to steal the fire (steal the power of the first flame) they must be hollowed by the dark sigil.
>>335930381
Not to mention when you walk outside of the firelink shrine in the kiln of the first flame you can see an absolute clusterfuck of castles and other architecture in various states of disrepair where lothric castle should be, as if all the different realities are converging there.
>>335923515
Why do ppl even care for this excuse of a story. It sounds like a bunch of writers got drunk and shat on a piece of paper and they used that as a script for the story.
>>335934910
She is one of Manus daughters, no one should ever touch such disgusting creature
>>335934956
Chimes? There's also the one in Firelink Shrine that wakes up the Lords of Cinder I think.
>>335935024
People keep saying that but that doesn't make sense to me. Oceiros is clearly the one crying before you enter the fog wall. He's gone insane the same way Seath and other sorcerers have gone insane studying sorcery.
He's also clutching onto that "hidden" child the whole time. There's no reason to believe the child was ever there. Furthermore there's no other invisible dragons throughout the series. Priscilla is an outlier.
>>335935317
You can steal the fire by beginning the End of Fire ending and attacking the Firekeeper during the last 10~ seconds you control your character. That does not require you to be hollow, and there is not a distinct achievement for that ending.
https://youtu.be/00KiUkde08g?t=145
I started watching ENB's playthrough recently and noticed something I didn't before. What's up with the pictures about the flames you have to extinguish in Farron Keep? They look like maybe Nito, Bed of Chaos and Four Kings, but for what reason?
>>335934910
she got stretched out by jailors
Firekeeper is the only pure waifu
>>335934634
The popular theory I heard is that you are one of the Lord of Cinder, you have linked the fire and burn yourself until you are Ashen One.
>>335935024
Well either that or this is an advanced case of crystal madness as examplified by the breath of Oceiros.
>>335935538
I'd not go for Karla for pureness. You gotta embrace the dark. Sometimes literally.
>>335935434
Exactly, she's as close as you'll get to one of the original lords.
>>335935502
I mean bells, like the bells of awakening in DS1.
A bell rings out as you wake up at the start of DS3 and the bell signed messages guide you throughout the game. Obviously there are plenty of bells in the belfry at Archdragon Peak, I was just wondering if they were of any significance.
>>335935317
You aren't returning the lord souls when you link the flame. The flame seems to use souls as its fuel and any strong soul is sufficient to link it. If it where the case that you were using the lord souls then you could just dump them into the flame and fuck off without sacrificing yourself. In DS1 all gathering the lord souls does is grant you access to the kiln but it's your soul that links it if you choose that ending. When you link the fire you aren't transcending shit, you're fulfilling your purpose as back-up fuel for the flame in case the undead all fail.
>>335935515
It's a test for some undead who wish to join the Farron undead legion.
>>335935909
The Flame IS souls.
The reason the first flame began to fade in the first place was because Gwyn and Nito and Pygmy and the Witches took power from it, turning their souls into lord souls.
Whats the deal with the pictures of 4Kings, Nito, and Izalith above the fires in Farron keep?
Is it universally accepted that beanpole went to go find the first born, found out he teamed up with the dragons, and then either fought him and lost or just committed sudoku on the spot?
>>335934910
Because she's not unkindled? Your spouse has to be Unkindled and have Dark Sigils, that way they can have both the first flame and dark soul, Ashened One and Anri are going to start a new line of humans with both in the Usurper ending
>>335936487
That's an awesome spot, I never noticed that.
It probably doesn't mean anything in particular though. It's looks like it's just important Lords of Fire right before one of the Lords of Cinder.
>>335935515
Nito and Four Kings can be explained by association with the dark grave of giants and the abyss itself...though due to proximity it might be residue from the abyss causing the apparent darkness in the grave, now that I think about it... perhaps we can raw the with Aldrich here.
We know he comes from the deep, which seems similar to the abyss, wears nito as a skirt and may have eaten the witch of Izalith, as signified by the root-like potrusions in his body...
Something is missing there to connect these dots...
>>335936487
it's a reenactment of the chose undeads journey, because you know it was the Chosen Undead who defeated the abyss, Artorias the little faggot just took the credit
>>335936568
His armor is just laying there with no corpse nearby, unlike all other armor sets across all 4 DS games.
This makes me think he stripped the armor off, threw it to the ground, and went off to become a hermit.
>>335923515
3 questions,
1. What exactly is the Deep, it apparantly is filled with tiny biting bugs but what is it and what is in there?
2. What was with the profaned flame? For something so cool sounding barely anything seems to have come from it.
3. What was the backstory of the profaned capital? Apparently the profaned flame burnt all the humans there but what's with the handmaidens, gargoyles and piles of what looks like treasure?
>>335936925
or maybe he is the worm in smouldering lake, which is supposed to be a former dragonslayer
>>335936851
In fact the undead legion shared something with Atorias. I don't know if I read it on wolf blood set or something.
>>335936997
1.Abyss, why worms never worked with Pontiff or Aldrich is mystery
2.Remains of the tree of artificial difficulty
3.You can see das2 characters and Nash portrait there, take a guess
>>335936689
That's finally a good reason.
I remember the theory of how the age of dark might look as few powerful individualls reigning over the weak by stealing their power. Seems with usurping the flame we finally gain the closest thing to a true dark lord ending.
>>335937127
>In fact the undead legion shared something with Atorias
I don't remember whether it was a soul, weapon or covenant item description, but the Undead Legion and Watchdogs are basically Artorias' followers. One description says that the "Wolf Knight" (Artorias) was the first of Abyss Watchers.
Their fate is also really similar. Artorias got tainted by the Abyss, and in the Abyss Watchers boss fight they kill each other (the red eyed ones are hostile to others) due to their numbers being tainted by the Abyss as well.
>>335936851
>>335937127
Haven't they shared the wolfblood? And seemingly being easily corrupted by the abyss, which I'd attribute the red eyed watchers to.
Though that even makes sense in case of the legion, since the corrupted could always be felled b those to come after.
>>335937204
The first is apparently wrong since deep is 'a darkness that lies beyond human ken'
>>335936997
1. Dunno. It sounds like it's some sort of worship of a false ending. That is, it's this false belief that there's Fire, Dark, Grey, AND Deep, but Deep is probably not real. At least, I doubt it's real. Maybe it was some form of worship that sprung up to get desperate people who needed some sort of salvation to get fed to Aldrich? But this is just Vaati levels of speculation so...
2. I don't know either. I thought it was like a false First Flame, like maybe something the Witches tried to create (but didn't go full Tree of Chaos)
3. What >>335937204 said, maybe? I never noticed the portrait of Nashandra, but it would make a lot of sense. Drangleic is often referred to by items "xxx of Want" so maybe Profaned Capital is a collection of human materials that we want? DS2 and DS3 often relate human emotions to hollowing, such as "want" or the concept of "luck". And I believe the Japanese translation for Profaned Capital is "City of Sin", so "sin" could be synonymous with "greed".
It would also explain the ties between giants. That is, Drangleic invaded the giants, beat them senseless, stole their throne, the giants came back and maybe Yhorm lead the revolution, or perhaps Yhorm was from a time before or after and lead his people against the humans. But then he was peaceful and gave out Storm Ruler to the humans in order to make them trust him.
My personal theory is that Yhorm came after Drangleic, and was half human half giant. He would eventually go hollow, and knew that he would. So he gave Storm Ruler to Siegward, and told Siegward to kill him if he ever went hollow.
It would explain why he's a lord of cinder, why he was on decent terms with the humans, and why Siegward was his friend and personally possessed the sword that could kill him (meanwhile Yhorm at one point reclaimed the other sword, probably as a matter of protectign himself).
This is all speculation, so I could be wrong, but it seems all plausible.
>>335936997
I think the profaned flame is simply the First Flame that Yhorm kindled, way back when. For reasons unknown, while it succeeded in prolonging the age of fire, it scorched the land around him, killing all the humans. It could be something to do with the fact that he was a giant, as a giant has never before kindled the flame. As for the Profaned capital? No idea
>>335937763
3. pt2 - I think Yhorm is half human because you can clearly see his face behind the hood he wears, but you can't see that face on any of the other giants. I don't know if it's just an "update" to how giants are supposed to look, but I think he's meant to be clearly distinct from the other giants, hence the "half human half giant, will later hollow" theory.
>>335937758
Actually, they're not just his followers, they are the very blood of Artorias. The legion were a band of warriors who came to Oolacile, found his corpse, and drank "the blood of the wolf". So when the Abyss seeped into Artorias, it was fated to seep into the Legion, eventually.
>>335936925
it'd be hilarious to find a red haired hermit hiding somewhere in the dlc
>>335934910
Because she needs to live so we can be her naughty studentscause sexy dark teachers make me hard
Also, why does future-ashen one go back in time and stab gundyr?
>>335938196
'You know, I was once a Dragonslayer like you... then humanity happened.'
>>335938428
Because the first time wasn't enough stabbing.
>>335938196
>DS1 had an Artorias DLC
>DS3 will get an Ornstein DLC
I'd be okay with that
What pose is the Soul of Cinder in when you see him for the first time?
>>335923515
Probably because they havent put together enough item descriptions to make some lore up.
>>335938774
I so want to have Ornstein make snide comments about the Dragonslayer amor
>>335938428
I think the Untended Grave and "other" Firelink are Lothric's Firelink. He was the one chosen to be next to link the fire, but that plan went to shit when he was born a cripple. So through his own inability (and the fact that he didn't believe in rekindling the fire), he was never able to begin his journey. Champ's soul says something like "the Iudex awaits a champion of ash to judge him, but he never came". So because Lothric shirked his duty, it's too late for someone to kindle the flame on their own, the darkness is already setting in. So that's why we need the Lords back on their thrones. Essentially we need the combined power of 5 Lords of Cinder to save the fire from extinguishing. (All of this is assuming the Chosen Undead kindled the flame in DS1)
>>335936568
No really, how the fuck can Ornstein keep coming back to life?
>inB4 illusions
Illusions don't have Souls
As someone who is completely new to the series, do I have to go through Demon Souls as well was Dork Souls 1 and 2 to grasp the story? And if I get Dark 1 via steam and play mouse and keyboard, how fucked will I be?
So what's the likelihood of Soul of Cinder being the Chosen Undead from DS1?
>>335937916
I've seen someone else say that exact thing.
I am willing to accept it into my headcanon.
What the fuck are the white jailer things that flock around the flames in those chalices though?
>>335934910
Sooo why isn't Karla working with Yuria? Being a daughter of Manus and probably the most powerful being in Firelink Shrine.
>>335939283
Play Dark Souls 1 & 2. Demon Souls is not canon. Or rather, not in the same universe
>>335939243
>Illusions don't have souls
Tell that to the damn giants in anor londor!
>>335939283
>Demon's Souls
No.
>Dark Souls
You're going to be missing out on the most content from DS3 if you skip Dark Souls.
>Dark Souls 2
It's mainly about setting up the universe but it's self contained otherwise.
You're only going to be missing out on references for the most part. The story is very unimportant and throwaway.
>>335938774
I want Ciaran's armor back.
I also want to know what became of her while we're at it.
Since optional fights are basically all not canon at this point, I'm willing to assume Chosen Undead didn't kill her when she asked for Artorias' soul in Oolacile.
It would be funny if there was a Ciaran fight where she wasn't small anymore and people had to figure out why the fuck she was small two games ago.
>>335939283
I tried. You're toast when fight anything but the gibbering hollows in the VERY beginning.
>>335939343
Not a clue. Generic enemies? The gargoyles are a bit of a mystery too. I like to think they're from Belfry Luna, but that wouldn't explain why they're in Lothric Castle.
>>335939480
>but it's self contained otherwise.
Aldia blew it the fuck open.
I like to think Aldia went on scheming against Keith and Frank. In some sort of Xavier/Magneto adversarial bullshit.
>>335923515
>AotA explained that the abyss is bad and Manus is the furtive pygmy
If you think that's all AotA explained then you weren't paying attention.
AotA basically established our current understanding of Humanity, humans, hollows, the nature of dark and fire, all sorts of shit. Retards think Aldia explained that but AotA did it all first.
>>335939243
Iudex Gundyr didn't have a soul, and the silver knights/gargoyle messenger things all drop souls, despite being illusions of Gwyndolin.
What's your point?
>>335939283
You don't have to play Demon Souls. It's its own game. Still worth a playthrough.
If you wanted to understand Dark Souls 3 in it's entirety, yeah you have to play Dark Souls 1 and 2 first, but they're both decent games and worth playing through.
Mouse and keyboard controls are pretty terrible. You should seriously consider buying a controller if you're interested on PC.
>>335939289
Soul of Cinder is a reincarnation of all the people who have linked the fire. It's not specifically the Chosen Undead from DS1 anymore than it's specifically any other people who link the fire in the later games.
It's an amalgamation of everyone who has ever linked the fire. That's why it uses a variety of builds, and why the second half is Gwyn (the first person to link the flame). The Firelink Armor, however, is clearly meant to be a nod to the Elite Knight set, the mascot armor of the first game.
>>335939343
The jailers are part of a race that somehow survived the kindling of the Profaned Flame. The white ones are members of the same race that worship it for some reason, and they probably love Yhorm for lighting it.
>>335939679
>It's not specifically the Chosen Undead from DS1 anymore than it's specifically any other people who link the fire in the later games.
>and why the second half is Gwyn (the first person to link the flame).
So it's not specifically the Chosen Undead any more than any of the other guys, but it IS Gwyn more than any of the other guys?
Have you considered that maybe it's more Chosen Undead than the other guys in the same way that it's more Gwyn than the other guys?
>>335939785
Their size seems similar to whatever Artorias was supposed to be.
A lesser giant?
>>335939367
I'd rather ask why Kaathe hasn't gone and collected all of Manus' daughters at this point...
It's really a bit murky how they relate to the Age of Dark and those trying to make it happen.
>>335939283
Demon's Souls and Darks Souls story aren't related.
Play with a controller
>>335939870
there is no such thing as a lesser giant
when will this fucking meme end
>>335939679
>>335939552
Welp, looks like I'm gonna have toWatch a playthrough of the first one then play 2 and 3 on piss 4
>>335939878
All this boils down to
>we need a primordial serpent DLC
From doesn't even need to try so hard, they just need to throw some more focused bullshit lore pieces and we'll make a decent story out of it.
>>335939367
Because even Manus thinks Age of Dark fags are embarassing.
>>335939243
Powerful beings can split their souls. See Gwyn. Aren't Pyromancies flames literally that too? You can easily retcon DaS Ornstein as some construct/illusion being powered by a piece of Ornstein's soul and DaS2's Dragonslayer as being just another dude using a replica.
Alternatively Ornstein is Undead too.
>>335939679
That makes sense. I was going to point out that the Soul of Cinder didn't show up in DS1, but then I remembered that's the first time the fire was linked. It would have been cool too if the Soul of Cinder fight had some attack patterns similar to the Lords of Cinder we already fought, considering it's an amalgam of all the previous Lords. for example, a two-handed downward chop for Yhorm, a sweeping attack for the Legion, that kind of thing. Still a 8/10 fight though.
>>335939937
Nigga what the fuck are they then?
Don't give me the "shit changes size based on power level at current time" either because player character gets powerful in all 3 games and never changes in size.
A different race is the only thing that makes sense. I call it lesser giant because I dont want to make up an arbitrary name that is more vague.
>>335939283
Demon's Souls happens in a different universe, and is completely unrelated plot wise to other games. At best you're going to be seeing references in Dark Souls. Can be skipped, though it's still a good game.
Dark Souls 1 is vital for understanding the later games. Must play before playing Dark Souls 2 or 3.
Dark Souls 2 doesn't have major plot stuff in Dark Souls 3 apart from a few references in equipment descriptions. However this could change with future DLC.
tl;dr I'd suggest playing them all, but if you want the short version just play Dark Souls 1 and Dark Souls 3
>>335939621
Not really. For the most part, it explained that humanity are fragments of the dark soul, the abyss fucks things up and why Gwyn is scared of it to the point of linking the fire, and that Manus is the furtive pygmy.
It doesn't touch on humans, hollows, the nature of dark and fire, or anything else. That's mostly Kaathe in his exposition dump.
>>335939858
The reason I think that's dumb is because there's no reason why the Chosen Undead is any more important than anyone else. He's the second person to link the fire, which honestly isn't anymore important than the third or the fourth or the 50th or the 1000th person to link the fire. Gwyn, however, was a god, and was the first.
Now, I think, for sure, that Soul of Cinder was meant to be a nod to the Chosen Undead, because he's wearing Elite Knight armor, which I said was the mascot armor of the first game.
However, the fact he uses a variety of builds implies it's a variety of undead across all time, while also reflecting the variety of builds you could've used to beat the game.
So it's as much the Chosen Undead as it is not the Chosen Undead. The most you could interpret it as is a nod to the first game (which I mean, is what the entire game is really: pure fan service). But I wouldn't say it's clearly the Chosen Undead. It is, later, clearly Gwyn (because the moveset is identical, the song is identical, it's the final boss in Kiln of the First Flame, etc etc)
>>335940173
>because player character gets powerful in all 3 games and never changes in size.
Yeah, except when you fight him as a boss in Dark Souls 3, when he's about the same size as Artorias.
'but wahh its an amalgamation', yeah, it's an amalgamation of a bunch of fucking normal sized humans you dumbass. If souls don't affect size then it shouldn't matter how many normal sized humans you cram together, you'll still get a normal sized human.
>A different race is the only thing that makes sense.
Go watch the intro cinematic and look at the Witch of Izalith and her daughters. Same race. Hugely different size.
>>335939289
he is + every other person who has ever linked the fire in the past XXXXX years
>>335940173
Not him, but the size difference between humans and whatnot according the devs is just because they want major bosses and characters to seem intimidating. It's also the reason for the big knights. Player character turning big would be hard to do gameplay wise.
Don't know about giants though.
>>335940003
Kaathe and Frampt are the Patriots of Dark Souls.
It might even be the same fucking guy.
>>335939858
I like my headcanon that Soul of Cinder is just a vessel hosting one Lord of Cinder at a time and they kinda just takes turn having their fun until everyone step aside because it's Gwyn's turn
>>335940307
>The reason I think that's dumb is because there's no reason why the Chosen Undead is any more important than anyone else.
Uh, yes he is.
Do you think second place athletes are indistinguishable from 55th place athletes? Do you think the guy who comes first is the only one anyone cares about? Chosen Undead killed basically every single God or demigod or close-to-god in the very first cycle of the world and absorbed most of their souls. He is probably more powerful than anyone else to have ever linked the flame except for Gwyn.
You're a moron. Doubly so for the AotA comment if you couldn't connect the dots.
>>335940492
>primordial hydra
>>335924052
Maybe. Ludleth actually does have a connection with the dark firelink as mentioned by our firekeeper.
She says something about Ludleth knowing of the location of something that firekeepers have been longing for or something. Which is of course the eyes you find in dark firelink.
>>335939878
Is Kathe also Ansem?
>>335924052
Wrong. Our Firelink is Prince Lothric's Firelink.
>>335940581
>Chosen Undead killed basically every single God or demigod or close-to-god in the very first cycle of the world
A big point was made in DaS that the world is dying and most of the gods you find are way past their prime.
>>335940727
You have proof for that?
>>335940143
That would be kind of a clusterfuck. Soul of Cinder already uses 4 different fighting styles.
When you look at Dark Souls you need to get your head out of your ass a little bit and realize not everything has a lore reason. A lot of the game's design is actually from a gameplay perspective than anything. Where you find items is heavily reliant on how the loot would affect your gameplay (strong heals, strong weapons, situational items) and how far into the game you are as well. They just put in some text that COULD amount to a story and the fanbase takes care of that nicely. The devs mainly just want to make sure you don't get certain items in the wrong time in terms of game progression and try to make them drop at spots that could sort of make sense lore-wise.
On another note.
Soul of Cinder is a dedication to the PLAYER and the OG boss for added nostalgia.
It's fanservice, and a damn nice one at that.
>Gwyn's theme in the second phase
I almost teared up.
Reminder that Usurpation Ending is the LITERAL best ending of the game and that Kaathe was right all along!
>>335940589
Would be pretty cool,.
One giant scheming soul monster with snakes for tentacles.
Doesn't that stuff with the Untended Graves work better if you consider it a past version of "our Firelink", set in the time when fire was almost completely out (more so than even today), Iudex having woken up too late and Ludleth deciding to link the fire on his own?
>>335940742
Witch of Izalith as Bed of Chaos was probably ten times more powerful than she was originally.
Nito was only slightly weaker.
Gwyn was fucked.
Manus was ten times more powerful than he was originally.
Artorias was fucked.
Smough was as powerful as he always was.
Seath was ten times more powerful than he was originally.
Gwyndolin was as powerful as he always was.
Priscilla was as powerful as she always was.
Etc.
>>335940727
I'm pretty sure Untended Graves is Lothric's Firelink, judging by Champion Gundyr's boss soul description. And the fact that we, the player, awake in our own grave when the bell tolls.
>>335940596
Yeah, Ludleth obviously has something to do with the Dark Firelink or at least knows something about it, though I don't think he's some sort of time lord illusionist like some idiots do. However the Dark Firelink does indeed happen in the past since your bloodsign in Untended Graves also appears in the current same place, plus Gundyr's armor description mentions that an unknown warrior (the player) beat him.
Like you said the Firekeeper mentions Ludleth knows something about Firekeepers, and when you find the Firekeeper Eyes and go to Ludleth before giving them to the Firekeeper he says something along the lines of "You found her, didn't you?", meaning he probably knew the dead Firekeeper in question.
>>335924052
>Untended graves isn't Ludleths firelink, it's Lothric's firelink
it can be both famalamadingdong
>Firelink shrine gets all prepped for Lothric's arrival
>he fucks off to go chill in the Abyss instead
>nobody links it
>place falls into the Abyss
>Gundyr arrives too late to save it
>Ludleth has to link it in Lothric's place
Ludleth personally knew the dead firekeeper in the Untended Graves, he states that he and those around him tried everything they could to save her from the dark visions that the eyes brought her
>>335940451
Yeah I do know that. If you wanted to give it a "'''''''''lore reason'''''''''''' though you have to embellish that.
Most of Dark Souls is just gameplay-based design choices. The Lore is an afterthought but here we are, discussing lore in a game that has anything but.
>>335940948
Well, there's no reason to believe Witch of Izalith was any less powerful before her transformation.
>>335940948
>Nito was only slightly weaker
>The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death -- Lord Soul
seems like Nito was significantly depowered by the time you fight him, since he had to consciously expend his own power to keep Death running properly. He can't even walk properly, and his death miasma isn't an OHKO like it should be
Can anyone help me with Greirat?
>Sent him before talking to Onion Cook in the kitchen.
>Went to talk to Onion Cook afterwards.
>Accidentally found my way to "Irythyll Dungeons".
>Killed Anthony Sullyvan but died a few times prior.
>Activated Sullyvan bonfire and returned to shrine.
>He's not there.
Where did I mess up? This is beyond stressful.
>>335940948
>Witch of Izalith
No, she became a defenseless bug, in her prime,she burnt Archtrees and Dragons to ashes, when you fight her she's reduced to making the ground collapse despite you being in a relatively tiny room
>Nito
Sucked off by Pinwheel for years and was just awoken from his sleep
>Manus
Literally a mad ape desperatly searching for his pendant
>Smough
A punk compared to the original Lords Souls owners
>Seath
Literally drove himself mad
>>335941186
>Witch of Izalith as Witch of Izalith
>Makes dragons sweat with a few infernos, with the help of all her daughters
>Witch of Izalith as Bed of Chaos
>Creates an entire race of extremely powerful demons which are mostly responsible for the downfall of the entire kingdom, and a flame to rival the first flame which only begins to fade many many many thousands of years later
>>335941318
Check the sewer area before the kitchen, with all the water centipede chicks, his ashes are there if you fucked up
>>335940693
Since Ansem is apperently everyone, yes.
>>335940874
Depends. If you go the Darkwraith route it will become a hell hole of right makes right.
For all i know Oceiros could be calling to his missing son.....or maybe he watched this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyG5D68ags
and went gay for revolver ocelote
>>335941504
>if you let the Age of Dark fall, the world will become a hellhole of might makes right
Londor seems more civilized then that, and besides, that still sounds better than whatever bullshit that Aldrich/Sullivan and Oceiros cooked up
>>335941449
I think you understimate just how powerful dragons are. And consider the possibility that after she used her soul to create demons, it left her weak and pitiful, literally turning into an insect
>>335941051
So why is it his and not Lothric's, despite the fact that he says that when he became lord, he linked the fire? Despite the fact that Untended Graves is clearly a Firelink that never got linked? Despite the fact that Champ's soul clearly states that no one showed up to perform their duty, so he waited the entire time? Despite the fact that this Firelink is located next to Lothric castle, and contains a ring from Gwynevere, the Queen of Lothric?
There's nothing that specifically states it's Ludleth's Firelink. All we know is that he's familiar with the eyes. There is plenty of evidence that this is Lothric's Firelink, but there's no evidence that Ludleth ever performed his duty (which he states he did).
>>335941382
>No, she became a defenseless bug
No, she's a bug inside a giant demon-spawning chaos tree that spans the entirety of Lost Izalith
Gwyn is technically just a squishy little brain, that doesn't invalidate the power of the brain's casing
>Sucked off by Pinwheel for years and was just awoken from his sleep
If Pinwheel gained that much power from him then Pinwheel would be stronger. Pinwheel's a little bitch. He's a mosquito.
>Literally a mad ape desperatly searching for his pendant
Doesn't mean he's not probably more powerful than Gwyn at that point. This is the bearer of the Dark Soul we're talking about here. He created something which has literally altered the natural order of the world.
>Literally drove himself mad
Madness doesn't make you any less powerful. Big Hat Logan is at his strongest when he's butt naked throwing crystal dragon breath at you.
>>335940874
Kaathe almost fucked everything up though, if Chosen Undead had become the Dark Lord then Humanity is fucked, Ashen One having the First Flame is only reason everything will work out for Humanity
Can someone spoonfeed me pontiff lore ?
>>335941450
Yeah but that's exactly what I did 1 to 1, what Iisted.
The onion bro is on the prowl already. He has his suit.
If he's dead even after following what everybody says and "not" to talk to Sqiegward until I send Greirat, then this game's quest system is beyond absurd.
>No clear determined route showing which way is the dungeon, you just end up there.
>The third bonfire of the area has a route to the dungeon itself, and you'd think this is the way to the boss.
>Entering the dungeon is the death flag for this particular character.
This is stressful game design.
Where does this "Ludleth/Lothric Firelink" shit comes from? It's only one Firelink you moron, you don't get a new one everytime you burn yourself to ashes.
>>335941853
Because Kaathe doesn't give a shit about humanity.
How dense are you nigga?
why can we hear a baby cry when fighting oceiros
is the baby actually there but invisible? makes no sense
if so, how?
how can we hear babby
>>335941985
I'll be honesty, its been a long time since I got that ending so I don't really remember it or Kaathe all that much
>>335942093
Priscilla's a Seath-flavored dragon crossbreed and she can go invisible.
Connect the dots.
>>335941774
>All that headcanon
Yeah ok.
If you watch Dark Souls intro cinematic before looking at the actual Lords Souls bearers you fight in-game and think the latters even reach the same powerlevel as the formers you're an idiot
>>335942140
makes no sense though, he keeps his arms in a way to hold a baby, yet says the line "dear little ocelotte where have you gone?"
where is babby?
>>335939031
And even snider if you wear Smough's.
>>335942175
>If you watch Dark Souls intro cinematic before looking at the actual Lords Souls bearers you fight in-game and think the latters even reach the same powerlevel as the formers you're an idiot
>DARK SOULS INTRO CINEMATIC
>FEATURING
>GWYN THROWING A SUNLIGHT SPEAR
>WITCH OF IZALITH CASTING FIRESTORM
>NITO CASTING MIASMA
>SEATH CASTING REEEEE
Truly, the difference is night and day.
>>335928147
>>>335934229
pretty sure there's a piece of lore that states that Gertrude was rumored to be a daughter of the queen of lothric
Gertrude = Rosaria.
>>335941882
Sith Pope is Pope of the Deep. He's pals with Aldrich. Aldrich being the cannibal he is wants to eat a god because it mite b fun. Sith Pope hooks him up with Gwyndolin. He also has a bunch of loyal knights who show signs of feral corruption on the same level as Artorias (Dancer, Vordt, wandering Irithyll knights, Pontiff guard).
His fire sword is made of the Profaned Flame, which could mean anything. He also apparently can use powers of the abyss by giving himself wings, making a clone, Dark Lurker stuff.
>>335942140
The baby is not invisible stop saying that jesus christ.
>>335942093
The baby doesn't exist. You can literally hear Oceiros doing pretend crying to himself outside of the fog wall. He's making the sounds to himself. The actual crying you hear inside is just a mockup of what he's actually thinking. It's the same reason you hear him beckoning Ocelotte, despite the fact he's in a life or death moment with you. He's fucking delusional (AS IS SAID HE'S GONE INSANE BY HIS SOUL) because he does the same research that Logan and Seath did (TWO ALSO VERY INSANE PEOPLE)
The fucking baby is not invisible. It's fucking nonexistant. Jesus christ LITERALLY NO OTHER DRAGON CAN TURN INVISIBLE, WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING IT'S PRISCILLA 2.0.
>>335941882
Normal sorcerer found the Profaned Flame. Got super powerful and became pontiff or Aldricht's religion, ensuring him the support of its followers and a way to kill the gods he hated.
Gave berzerkers rings to any knight that could challenge him so they'll go mad and act as guardians beasts
>>335940948
The With of Izalith was bound by her daughters staves. As per law of pyromancy they would be weaker then her.
Nitos Miasma isn't instantly gibbing you like it was with immortal dragons.
Gwyn is always fucked, I mean the dude was grey when he led his knights.
Manus was drained of humanity. It's literally what Kaathe told Oolacile sorcerors to do and led to him succumbing to the urges brought by his, already fragmented, Lord Soul. If the Guy was conscious and in possession of all his power he would similarily instagib you by just draining ALL of you.
Artorias was on suicide mission, but became an 'incarnation of the Abyss' as told by Miyazaki himself
Smough is also an ass.
Seath was also mad as stated by Logan and later presented by him. Also Man-scorpion Tark. Don't know about how, or even if that effected him in anyway. Also his kind of immortality didn't empower him perse. Though him failing because ONE dumb minion took a nap is pretty mean.
Gwyndolin was, arguably even more powerful if we go by the series' themes. He took the Throne of Anor Londor after all. Though keeping up the pretense of something not ment to continue might've taken a toll, even on a god. Though, that discussion is pretty meaningless since optional bosses are canonically alive as mention further above.
>>335941690
what makes you think that you're still in the present when you visit the Untended Graves? Time is convoluted and this wouldn't be the first time that you accidentally wander into the past.
Furthermore, the description of Gundyr's gear states that he showed up too late to prevent the Fire from fading. He saw that he was too late to fetch the Lords, as the flame had already faded, and stood watch.
Also, geographically speaking, Firelink and Dark Firelink are in the exact same spot. Pic related, it's the view that you get when you exit firelink shrine. Notice Lothric Tower in the background, the top of it is where you fight the Lothric Bros. Both Firelink and Dark Firelink are the same place, just in different points in time.
Also, there is far, far more evidence than Ludleth "just being familiar with the eyes." He explicitly states that he tried everything he could to save the Dark Firelink firekeeper, and that he failed, and that her death served as his motivation for Linking the Flame. The power for which he got through sheer willpower alone. Try talking to him after collecting the eyeballs and see for yourself. Ludleth was the one who linked Dark Firelink, whether that firelink was MEANT for Lothric is a different story entirely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtoGYMEHJnc
Best theme in the game. Debate me.
>>335941449
Demons existed before, as provided by firesage demon
>>335942248
There's a socery that allows you to create a fake sound off in the distance to fuck with people. Oceiros was probably magicking some baby noises because he was bat-shit insane.
Is he the maddest of men?
>>335941882
Sullivan saw the Profaned Flame, and got the motivation to become pope. He kitted out the soldiers of Irithyll with the Profaned Flame, and armed them all with Dark magic.
It's reasonable to assume that he's the reason why the Deep's teachings became infected with Dark worship, and why all of it's clergy fell to the Abyss.
He sent all of his political enemies and descendants of the Old Gods out to their doom by making them exiled Outrider Knights, fated to become mindless beasts.
He fed Gwyndolin to Aldrich (who had returned, planning on waiting for the Age of the Deep Sea aka the Age of Dark), and protects Aldrich so that no Unkindled can come and claim his ashes.
Sullivan wants the Age of Dark to come, and corrupted the Church and sided with Aldrich to do so.
>>335942521
That ain't sillyman's theme.
>>335942521
rebuttal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwFA2VdCGcY
>>335942472
>The With of Izalith was bound by her daughters staves.
wat?
>Artorias was on suicide mission, but became an 'incarnation of the Abyss' as told by Miyazaki himself
Artorias is a sword and shield fighter. When you fight him, one of his arms is broken and he's already thrown away his shield. He is also potentially using the wrong hand to wield his sword.
>Manus was drained of humanity. It's literally what Kaathe told Oolacile sorcerors to do and led to him succumbing to the urges brought by his, already fragmented, Lord Soul. If the Guy was conscious and in possession of all his power he would similarily instagib you by just draining ALL of you.
Now THAT'S headcanon. The abyss is concentrated humanity, mate, he was the exact opposite of drained. Manus as he was originally was just the pygmy, some unassuming normal-sized dude. He was apparently really gentle and kind too. Bet your ass Manus, Father of the Abyss is several hundred times more powerful than the Furtive Pygmy.
What connection between Lothric kingdom and Irythill? These cities exist at the same timeline, and I`ve found strange that power hungry Darth Pope didn`t try to conquer Lothric.
>>335941610
Sullivan is a madman. Also FURYPRIEST.
Aldrich is literal sludge and behaving as such.
Oceiros has a case of crystal madness.
EVERYONES picture of the future is fucked up, even the firekeeper's.
The only person I can sympathize with is apperently teaching you humanity brand magics and only because she doesn't seem to care at all after being locked up and violated (multiple meanings, please guys) for god knows how long.
Wait wait wait, what are those dragon things that shoot at you during the Dragon armor fight? Never was shown again
>>335942574
Firesage Demon was the first demon, but he didn't predate the Chaos Flame.
He was around before Witch of Izalith was engulfed by the Chaos Flame. He wasn't around before the Chaos Flame existed.
![Ocelot[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/QsI510E.png "Ocelot[1].png")
>>335942248
Oceiros is mad and Ocelotte doesn't actually exist, at least in the physical sense of the word. Ocelotte is actually part of the King, an alternate personality of sorts. The King looks like a dragon, Ocelotte is supposedly a "child of dragons", ergo Consumed King = Ocelotte.
In the first phase he thinks he is holding a baby, yet he is also unable to see Ocelotte and calls to him. In the second phase he goes completely feral, meaning the Ocelotte personality has taken control.
>>335939963
Why not use Piss4 controller on PC?
Gimme a ballpark estimate of the time between the Lords awakening and our character's awakening.
>>335942506
Name one other time you wander into the past that doesn't involve a portal or cutscene transition. (Bloodborne DLC doesn't count, not same universe)
Furthermore the very fact that he says he links the flame and the fire is very clearly not linked should be all the proof you need that Ludleth never linked the fire there.
Also why is Gundyr not dead? Did Ludleth just sneak around him? And why does Gundyr's soul say that no one ever came? You can't say that Gundyr was just sleeping. The very moment we show up, he gets pissed and starts fighting you.
I don't deny they're in the same location geographically, that makes perfect sense to me (also I'm pretty sure they're just coded the same way. You can jump on the tree branch next to the tower to get onto the roof and get behind the shrine, and you can loot chests there which will cause the ones in real firelink to be looted or vice versa).
Regardless, the very fact that the fire is not linked should be proof enough that Ludleth never linked there.
>>335942335
i laughed out lout at SEATH CASTING REEEE
Again guys, the DEEP is NOT the Abyss
>>335942889
They're like Rome and the Vatican city. Irythill is part of Lothric kingdom but the Pontiff is the pope and de facto ruler of it and Anor Londo.
>>335943060
A month.
Long enough for them to wake up, decide that linking the fire is fucking stupid, and fuck off to wherever their home is.
>>335943060
a day
>>335930628
I think it's more that he was a dumb ass who tried was lead to consume his final boss for more power before it back fired and made him a lord of cinder.
>>335943035
Yup, as such the creation of demons as race can not be credited to the bed of chaos. It was inherent to the lord soul of the witch and that got out of control... is this the same thing that happened to manus when Oolacile under Kaathe fucked up?
>>335943113
Yes it is.
>Abyss is associated with 'gnawing' particularly with firekeepers who literally say 'shit man this gnawing sure is annoying'
>Deep magic includes:
>Gnaw
>Better version of Gnaw
>Variants of Gnaw
Predictions for the DLC?
>first takes place in Carthus
>second takes place in Londor
>Gertrude is like Ludwig/Artorias
>>335943113
The deep seems more analogous to the bed of chaos or the profaned flame. A cheap man made copy of the real thing (the abyss/dark).
>>335941610
>that still sounds better than whatever bullshit that Aldrich/Sullivan
Lol
>Reduces undead curse build-up and cures hollowing.
>Inhabitants of Londor, the land of Hollows, use this secret treasure to feign normalcy.
>Occasionally, a Hollow fools even himself, and turns on his own kind.
And we heard about world that Aldrich/Sullivan preparing for
Aldrich wasn't a good person, but he still linked fire to save world from darkness, so I'm sure that deep is less shithole compared to the world of serpents(dark ending) too
>>335943036
That. Right there.
He calls out to himself not to fear because he has gone the way of the dragons and as such is trying to invoke the beast in himself. But as the enemies on the road of sacrifice he ends up fighting like a scared, cornered animal.
>>335943013
They're tree dragons.
Sulivan is the Tree pope.
Which means Iriythll is full of tree worshippers...hmmmm.
>>335943339
A L D I A
L
D
I
A
AND A FUCKING PRIMORDIAL SERPENT TO WRECK
>>335932215
He was clever and the other lords were desprite
>>335943339
nmj,sdvgfnj,dgfnjkdgfnjkdgfnjkdgfnjkdgfdgf45645h
>>335943339
>Gertrude is like Ludwig/Artorias
Gertrude is Rosaria.
>Daughter of Gwynevere
Check
>Divine
Check
>Mute and blind
Check
The Artorias/Ludwig of the Dark Souls 3 DLC will be the Bearer of the Curse and/or Aldia from Dark Souls 2.
The Manus will be the Primordial Serpents.
>>335943198
At the very least long enough for Ludleth to reach his throne and cut/singe his own legs off to keep him from leaving his post.
>>335943580
Ludleth lost his legs when he linked the flame.
Firekeeper probably carried him to his throne bridal style. Or he crawled.
>>335943540
>>335943514
I would love Aldia to be in the DLC, but I doubt it
Would shit my pants if I came up to a bonfire in the middle of one of the DLC's and he came up
>>335943013
They're called Pilgrim Butterflies. The name is specifically stated by the Dragonslayer Armor Soul.
I believe they're "hatched" from the dead Pilgrims you see all over Lothric. Like, that shell on their back? Think cocoon.
It makes a lot more sense than "they're the undead stuck on trees that grew wings"
Is there a lore reason for why dogs are so damn annoying?
>>335943329
http://www.ign.com/wikis/dark-souls-3/Deep_Gem
>There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken.
>>335943367
It apperently is a resting place for horrible things but was once peaceful
>>335943060
900 million trillion years
>>335943728
Rabies.
>>335934494
I personally like to think that Nameless King sided with the dragons due to his love for Priscilla. Yorshka being their daughter.
>>335943679
Really? None of the other lords got fucked up as a result of linking the flame (Lothric's mute and crippled but apparently that is his brother's doing). I assumed he did it himself (or allowed someone else to do it) due to the blood/ash marks on the piece of cloth on his throne.
>>335943781
>There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken.
Apparently not since there's an entire fucking Cathedral of humans that know about it.
The abyss is 'beyond human ken' by that standard too. Just because we know all about it doesn't mean it's common knowledge in-universe.
>>335943339
I'm going to flip my shit if the DLC doesn't explain Primodial Serpents' motivations or have Aldia and DaS2 stuff like "curse of life = curse of want" in one form or another.
Explaining the Hollow Lord or Ludleth and his relation to Firekeeper Eyes and Untended Graves would also be fantastic.
>>335943726
>They bore large covers on their backs to ensure that they would not become seedbeds for spreading darkness.
So they are abyss creatures? Doesn't look like that
>>335943540
I need some sources on Gertrude. Like EVERYTHING.
>>335943065
>why is Gundyr not dead
he is dead, he's a reanimated Abyss golem like the two dragons in Lothric castle (at least he is when you fight him as Iudex Gundyr). He also doesn't drop a soul, because again, you stole it from him in the past
>Champion Gundyr was bested by an unknown warrior... -- Gundyr's set
aka you
You travel to Dark Firelink after Ludleth's fire keeper died, but before he linked the flame in response.
If Dark Firelink is Lothric's Firelink, then why is it that you don't see the Abyss from the High Wall or Lothric Castle? It should be right fucking there. Why is it that in Dark Firelink, the bell never rang, and noone heard a bell ring, but the Bell objectively rang in the outside world?
>>335943915
Some people are saying they wear them to prevent themselves from turning into pilgrim butterflies.
>>335943370
I'd take an Abyss-fueld world of STR over the outrageous cruelty of the Church of the Deep any day of the week
>>335943889
But the Abyss, as provided by Darkdriver What's-his-name, has no larger ill effects on humans. Those who worship the deep need to shield themselves with a miracle. Though I'm starting to think they don't worship it as much as they tell of it's inevitable coming and, like Aldrich, try to prepre for it.
>>335943882
>None of the other lords got fucked up as a result of linking the flame
Well Aldrich is a slime monster, he can't get much more fucked up.
Yhorm is a giant, even the first flame can't fuck him up physically, although it may have hollowed him.
>(Lothric's mute and crippled but apparently that is his brother's doing).
Lorian is mute and crippled. Lothric's fine, just sickly.
>I assumed he did it himself
One of his dialogues is
'I linked the flame. You want proof? Look at my fucked up body mate'
>>335930407
Are you serious? The one you find in a place you go to by meditating is the fake.
>>335943882
he was probably physically deformed, he only linked the flame when no-one else would, as a last resort. he was never "intended" to do it
>>335943829
I thought it was implied somewhere that Priscilla was his daughter
>>335944152
>But the Abyss, as provided by Darkdriver What's-his-name, has no larger ill effects on humans.
ahaha
AHAHAHA
AHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK ALL THOSE BUGHEADED FUCKS IN OOLACILE ARE YOU BRAINDEAD RETARD?
WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED TO BEATRICE?
OR THE FOUR KINGS?
jesus christ you niggas be retarded
>>335943781
>ken
>knowledge of imagination
"the truest extent of Darkness is darker than your wildest dreams" -- Deep Gem
wow much hidden meanings, such insight
>>335943901
>I'm going to flip my shit if the DLC doesn't explain Primodial Serpents' motivations
Isn't it obvious?
Primordial Serpents are native to the Dark. That's why their necks stretch into the blackness.
Right now they're cooped up in the corners of the world.
They want the age of dark to come so they can have the whole world to themselves.
>>335944159
>'I linked the flame. You want proof? Look at my fucked up body mate'
I thought he was just referencing the fact he looks like a piece of burnt wood.
>>335943060
I would say the exact same time. It's the bell (of awakening?) that woke up the lot of ye. No reason for some of them to wake later than others
>>335943370
Aldrich was forced to link the fire, he didn't do it out of his own free will;
