KOTOR 2
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
I know that most people praising KOTOR 2 tend to say that the game doesn't get good until the Telos section is over (or whatever the post-Peragus area is called) but the game is simply not good, it's padded to hell, it has no interesting mechanics, you spend half your time running around waiting for trash bins to open, demolishing pushover droids, being given simplistic light/dark choices (a literal black and white situation where choosing black always makes you look like a petulant manchild) and most of the plot is telegraphed in advance through silly information retention exhibited by Kreia.
It has zero interesting mechanics, it has no puzzles, dialogue is shoehorned somewhere between needlessly quirky (the dashing space swashbuckler you get on Peragus is like a poor version of Guybrush) even for a Star Wars game and the overall art design is quite poor, especially regarding maps and hubs no one in their right mind would live.
What's the fucking point of going to the dark side anyway? So you can be a rotten blind corpse spewing shit about 'power'? This whole game is a fucking bluff. Fuck Obsidian, the most overrated developer in the history of video games. They can't design shit, can't even write dialogue.
It's just so railroaded, you know? One apartment block is to the left, you get choice A. The other is to the right, you get choice B. Smack in the middle is the back alley where you make the choice and get alignment points. Then some more exposition is had. All the while you experience completely mind numbing gameplay.
Didn't you get tired of all the trash bins containing chemicals and parts in this game? The fucking blackjack clone? All the unimaginative padding? I'd rather play through Nier's sidequests again so my brain only partially dies.
>>333834060
(you)
>>333834060
Well aren't you a pleb and a half.
>>333834138
Thanks for bumping.
Regarding this part
>dialogue is shoehorned somewhere between needlessly quirky (the dashing space swashbuckler you get on Peragus is like a poor version of Guybrush) even for a Star Wars game and the overall art design is quite poor, especially regarding maps and hubs no one in their right mind would live.
I meant to say "between needlessly quirky and painfully grandiose", hence the comments about Obsidian bluffing their way through like they did with Planescape Torment while they were on Black Isle still. This is some low, low tier genre fiction, probably unpublished tier at that; it feels like a sectarian language when complex terms like dark/light/power/loyalty etc are introduced and every character seems to revolve around them in dumbfounded wonder... until the whole charade juxtaposes with another quip.
>>333834424
>>333834060
Good job, you just realized videogames are nothing more than entertainment and are generally infantile even at their peak.
However this doesn't change the fact that games like PS:T or KotOR2 sadly represent the peak of videogame writing and vast majority of other games are even worse.
If you want to actually flex your brain why don't you study quantum physics or read books? I mean, I don't know what the fuck did you expect. It's fucking videogames.
I also think that a good point about people this game was made for is inadverently made in that image calling out Bioware for making a "sunday morning cartoon villain" - which, while true, doesn't manage to hide the fact that "Obsidian's legitimate threat" represents nothing more than a villain propped up purposely for purpose of being preposterous like this sentence is. Avellone or whoever wrote it may be more verbose than your average Gaider employee but in the end it's just a poor attempt at characterization through insertion of 'mature' themes in an interactive storytelling design that doesn't really support any of that, especially when motivations are concerned - which, every genre fiction writer will tell you - is where these sort of cardboard characters live or die.
>>333834614
You missed my point completely, read the paragraph above. It's when you call out others for being infantile (like Obsidian fans do) is where you fail to take into account any sort of nuance and come off as a dogmatic prick. Like you do when you push that chaffed strawman towards me.
>>333834060
>the dashing space swashbuckler you get on Peragus is like a poor version of Guybrush
Was Guybrush a violent Sith Assassin who tortured and killed the only women who loved him?
>>333834614
It's a design critique, writing is the least of its problems.
>>333834741
Is that what the twist is? Why, I'm shocked!
>>333834716
>You missed my point completely, read the paragraph above. It's when you call out others for being infantile (like Obsidian fans do) is where you fail to take into account any sort of nuance and come off as a dogmatic prick. Like you do when you push that chaffed strawman towards me.
Good job, you just demonstrated that you are a fucking imbecile that can't even read considering I didn't call you infantile, I called the medium infantile because that's a fact. But now I will call you infantile too, you fucking dumb kid.
>>333834808
Art isn't infantile, themes do not make it so; only the approach and the desperate need for validation. Comic books weren't infantile until someone tried to call them graphic novels.
>>333834902
Video Games are not art, fuck off back to /lit/.
>>333834060
>What's the fucking point of going to the dark side anyway? So you can be a rotten blind corpse spewing shit about 'power'?
The point of Kreia was that both Sith and Jedi at the time the game takes place lost their way, Jedi reduced themselves to isolationist space monks who would not interfere with a horrible war out of a fear of something even worse happening, Sith in the game lose their identities and everything else in the pursuit of "power". So you've gotten that thing right, you shouldn't want to be like Nihilus.
>>333834958
Sure they are, it's interactive storytelling. That's why the writing you're so hung up on is the least important part of the experience. Pong is less infantile than your mature themes.
You represent the mindset of average western consumer and this is why most western games are utter shit, lacking spirit.
>>333835120
Then don't gear the game around 'choice' if anyone with common sense wouldn't want indulge in route B.
>>333834902
I'm sorry but videogames are not art.
It's liberals like you that completely devalued the meaning of art.
>>333834060
The game is pretty trash. Kreia and Atton has some good dialogue which it why the game hasn't been completely discarded as boring garbage, which the rest is.
>>333835181
Video Games are a form of entertainment and will never and should never be considered art. It's fucks like you who are ruining the industry because you demand games be set to some standard that as never meant for them.
>>333835223
>It's an American shows up, uses the word liberal through the lens of military industrial complex and denies interactive entertainment the art moniker that has been expounded on through the exploration of ludic narrative in the 1970s academia all the while throwing around "infantile" stickers at anything he doesn't like
Never fails
>>333835181
>Then don't gear the game around 'choice' if anyone with common sense wouldn't want indulge in route B.
You don't have to follow Nihilus' mistake if you want to turn to the Dark Side. The ancient Sith weren't like that, the ones whose tombs you visit on Korriban. They were knowledgeable and powerful, not mindlessly hungry. The Other Sith, the great threat looming on the fringes of the old Republic, they aren't like that either.
>>333835375
>whole point of my posts is ridiculing Obsidian's bluffing with piss poor passive, wall-of-text based storytelling because they can't do interactive narrative/gameplay/map design properly
>I demand standard that was never meant for video games, an interactive form of entertainment
You seem to be suffering from cognitive dissonance. I specifically mentioned Pong as being more mature than this sort of piece of shit game design.
>>333835474
Nothing in the writing supports that, everyone sounds like a retard or uses grandiose sentences ultimately not meaning anything.
>>333835452
You should go back to /tv/ you libcuck. Videogames were never meant to be nor should be art.
People like you is why games are polluted by garbage like Gone Homo, various walking simulators, literal movies like Heavy Rain and so on.
You disgust me.
Enjoy your thread because I'm out, thanks for being the cancer killing videogames with your fucking "art".
t. disgruntled grognard that actually appreciates real art
>>333835671
>ultimately not meaning anything
Maybe it just goes over your head?
>>333835671
You're clearly retarded
>>333835671
>Nothing in the writing supports that
Kreia literally tells you about Ancient Sith being greater than any contemporary Sith. Kreia was a Sith herself, arguably is, and she isn't stupid. I get it that you don't like the tone of the writing, fair enough, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore what it says and pretend it never happened. This seems really dishonest, makes it look like you're more interesting in shitting on a game than actually arguing about it. Which is fine, too, but I probably won't engage in that.
>>333834060
This sounds like someone's terrible copypasta. Well done, OP. You're today's biggest faggot. Here's your (you)
>>333835874
I was talking about motivation and you don't make characters smart by making other characters make that claim.
>>333835720
Does basic reading comprehension really come that hard for you? Maybe I should do a video with some wacky jump cuts? After all first two posts were made by the meme generation.
>>333834060
>no puzzles
but that's wrong. Being able to circumvent puzzles with brute force doesn't make the puzzles disappear.
>dialogue
Is considered quite good, especially when compared to KOTOR 1 or other Bioware titles. Obsidian has always been praised for their writing.
It sounds to me like you just don't like D&D mechanics and pacing, in which case why the fuck are you playing a CRPG?
I don't like Basketball, so instead of buying NBA2K and complaining about how boring it is I just don't play it.
>>333836103
The ancient sith lords are dead, so making them smart through a word of another character is fine. Kreia is smart, you see her manipulating other characters through the entire game. The game doesn't exist in vacuum, anyway, Dark Side is an established thing and people realize what it represents (selfish desires for power, knowledge etc.) and why would they want to pursue it.
>>333834802
>It's a design critique
That's incredibly generous given OP doesn't actually discuss any of the negative elements of the design. He asserts a lot and gives an overall opinion but that's not the same thing.
>>333836206
>It sounds to me like you just don't like D&D mechanics and pacing, in which case why the fuck are you playing a CRPG?
D20 implemented in KotOR is a bad, castrated system, it's totally fine to bash on KotOR combats.
>>333835946
Thats not how you (you) faggot. Lurk more kiddo.
>>333835671
>nothing in the writing supports that
So not only are you the kind of idiot who plays a game built on mechanics they don't like, you also didn't pay attention during the writing you intend to criticize.
>>333836373
>D20 implemented in KotOR is a bad, castrated system
It's a basic D20 system with some interesting force powers and a decent range of build opportunities. If you want to bash KOTOR and KOTOR2 on combat you have to bash NWN and D&D 3.5 as well. In which case I again ask: why the fuck are you playing a CRPG?
>>333834060
>the dashing space swashbuckler you get on Peragus is like a poor version of Guybrush
Want to know how I know you've barely played the game?
Fuck off.
>>333836603
>with some interesting force powers
You mean, really basic force powers.
>NWN
The first NWN has shit combat, yes.
>D&D 3.5
Not only DnD is a much more complex system, with more classes and feats and abilities and shit, all decent DnD RPGs also give you an actual party that you can control in an isometric perspective, which offers for some decently fun tactics. All I did in KotOR was spamming Master Flurry, using a shield if I was taking too much damage and using a sticky grenade on Malak in 1 to get out of his force rape range and heal myself while he was stuck to the floor.
The last part was actually hilarious.
>>333836332
>you spend half your time running around waiting for trash bins to open, demolishing pushover droids, being given simplistic light/dark choices (a literal black and white situation where choosing black always makes you look like a petulant manchild) and most of the plot is telegraphed in advance through silly information retention exhibited by Kreia.
>What's the fucking point of going to the dark side anyway? So you can be a rotten blind corpse spewing shit about 'power'?
>fucking blackjack clone
I didn't know KOTOR has other mechanics? What else is there? Finding a data slate telling you about the 'puzzle' you need to 'solve'?
Slicing the computer for that oh-so-carefully hidden information?
Being explicity told that you don't have enough influence with Kreia just so you know that she is not telling you the truth?
As for map design, I can post literally any screenshot from KOTOR 2 because they arr rook same. Unless you consider texture swap to be map design.
>>333834614
lol
>>333836824
>The first NWN has shit combat, yes.
>I could've made my team have synergy and used tactics but I was able to brute force through so it's shit
We're done here.
>>333836824
First NWN has better combat from more animations
>>333836702
It's a Sith Assassin that can become Jedi Consular because character development LUL
I bet he quipped his way through grief counseling.
So let me see if I have your complaints right
>exploring and collecting items takes too long
>combat is too easy
>morality is too simplistic
>plot is telegraphed (?)
If you don't like exploring and collecting loot why are you playing a cRPG?
If you don't like D20 combat why are you playing a cRPG?
The game goes out of its way to point out that while the choices may seem simple and obvious they have consequences you cannot foresee. The very first choice explicitly shows you that helping and being light side made the target of your benevolence a bigger target who was still unable to defend themselves without you.
It's called foreshadowing.
You're a silly bitch, go back to playing your Halos.
>>333837417
Can you stop pushing the "KOTOR 2 is the cRPG mold all other cRPG games should be measured by" quasi argument? We're not all without faculties here.
>>333837417
>Explicitly telling you the consequences of your actions is called foreshadowing
Jesus Christ I hope you don't have a degree in anything important.
>>333836948
>but I was able to brute force through so it's shit
Well yes, if a game system is so bad you can "brute force" through it without thinking it's probably pretty bad. I just took whatever companions I liked with me, who cares about combat, I could've solo'd most encounters alone. I even played on """hard""" difficulty!
Original NWN has bad combat because it's a DnD game but you don't get a party. It sort of makes sense when you consider the campaign is only there as a tech demo for the editor, though.
>>333837047
Who the fuck cares about animations?
>>333837705
You do get a party in HotU.
![StrawMan2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GGtX8EH.jpg "StrawMan2[1].jpg")
>>333837505
I was wondering when my good friend would show up.
OP would hate Planescape: Torment
>>333837417
>>If you don't like D20 combat why are you playing a cRPG?
I don't agree with the OP at all but you are a special kind of retard to thing that shallow and boring KotOR combat is some kind of a be-all end-all CRPG experience.
You actually make OP look like a reasonable human being with your idiocy.
>>333837796
Cool. I only played through OC, was enough for me. Lighting effects and "wow real 3D" was cool for its time, though.
>>333837705
>so bad
Nigga it's a star wars game with a D20 system. If you don't want to be able to get through on brute strength min/maxing and items ratchet up the difficulty.
>Original NWN had bad combat
Kill yourself.
>>333837819
>>333837505
You didn't need to post two of the same strawman
>>333837812
But that's exactly what he/you said.
>If you don't like cRPGs why did you hate KOTOR 2?
And then you talk about PST as if certain I'd hate it based on your 'argument'. Which I don't it's a decent visual novel that falls apart halfway through.
the combat in kotor is fucking atrocious because your character is insanely overpowered
>>333837913
SoU is much better than the OC
And HotU is arguably better than MotB
You should definitely play them.
Just make sure to play SoU before HotU as HotU is a direct continuation.
>>333838024
cRPG's have D20 combat. That's how they were built. If you don't like D20 combat, don't play cRPGs.
>m-m-muh placement!
Is important on difficulties besides the default-for-children-because-it's-star-wars difficulty, sperg.
>>333838024
At this point I'm genuinely curious, what RPGs DO you like?
>>333837705
So let me get this straight
You like choice
>It's just so railroaded, you know? One apartment block is to the left, you get choice A. The other is to the right, you get choice B. Smack in the middle is the back alley where you make the choice and get alignment points
but you hate when given options you don't like?
I'll add my voice to the choir; why the fuck are you playing games that aren't targeted at you?
>>333838170
You're confusing cRPG with their mechanics.
>>333834060
>>333838024
>doesn't like planescape
>doesn't like NWN
Can we all just stop trying to argue with this retardation and call him a faggot now?
OP the genre is clearly not for you.
>>333838278
>OP criticizes a cRPG for having basic cRPG mechanics
>OP clearly does not like basic cRPG mechanics
>DURR WHY U SAY KOTOR 2 IS DA BESS CRPG
>YOU CONFUSE GENRE WITH MECHANICS
OP was trying so hard to be the biggest retard in the thread.
He never stood a chance against you.
>>333838254
I'll try to explain you the following, read carefully:
- Not all games that offer differing paths are EXECUTED in the same manner.
Do you get it now why your Kappa aligns perfectly with other Kappas?
>>333838310
>we
I'M GONNA MARRY KREIA!
>>333838465
Do you realize there are different RPG systems and that they differ from fluff which is slapped onto them?
>>333837915
>ratchet up the difficulty
>I even played on """hard""" difficulty!
Reading comprehension!
I even gimped my char by using heavy armour on a Consular because I liked how it looked. No Force Speed, no Force Lightning. Still rolled over enemies.
>>333834060
>>333838170
>cRPG's have D20 combat.
Fallout and Arcanum do not. Not to say they have good combat, though.
>>333838254
I'm not OP, I like KotOR 2, I just think its combat is crap. Can you not read?
>>333838024
>PS:T
>decent visual novel
>Hates NWN and KOTOR2.
Okay, the Planescape line got me to figure it out. OP likes JRPGS with nonsense "deep" plots and VNs. His favorite game is probably Stiens;Gate.
>>333834060
>>333838870
It sounds like OP is playing cRPGs when he wants to be playing VN's or reading a book.
Why don't you go do that, OP. Goosebumps makes some great COYA books that would be right up your alley. Just the right reading level, too, if your posts are any indication.
>>333837913
>I only played through OC
You've never actually played NWN then
>>333839096
And your screencap doesn't make me regret I didn't!
>>333834060
Nar Shaddaa was full of puzzles, you mongoloid.
>>333837796
Is there a way to have three companions in HotU, not just two? It pains my heart every time I end up in Cania and have to leave Nathyrra, Valen or Aribeth behind.
>>333840940
technically. You could also say that Deadly Premonition has tons of puzzles.
Another failed mechanic in KOTOR 2 is party mechanics you never use due to how simplistic the gameplay is. Despite 'connection' protag and Kreia have, there's barely any interaction apart from dialogue and cutscenes. Compare that to tri-party system in Xenoblade which is seemingly simpler yet proves that interaction in practice, not on 'paper' is king.
>>333839096
That is garbage and whomever made it should feel bad.
MOREOVER, HOW DO I EVEN GAIN INFLUENCE WITH EVERY PARTY MEMBER WITH SUCH LIMITED TIME? REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>333839096
The fact that panties are described in pure DnD terms, how much AC they give and how much do they increase spell failure rate, makes it pretty hilarious, though.
>Dildo
>Simple One-Handed Thrown Melee
>Critical: ×2
>Range Increment: 10 ft.
>Type: Bludgeoning
>Hardness: 5
>>333842468
The affinity system didn't fundamentally change the story in Xenoblade. It made more impacts in the combat, but having affinity with party members in KotOR 2 gave you more customization options to play with. The coin system didn't really let you go outside of the charcter's intended role in Xenoblade.
Also, the dialogue in KotOR is a gameplay element while in Xenoblade there is really no gameplay with the dialog.
Also you are a faggot.
>>333843024
>Dialogue is a gameplay element
technically
Choose your adventure books are also ye olde haptic controllers.
>>333842468
>there's barely any interaction with Kreia outside the only two possible ways for characters to interact in the game
>>333842557
ADwR is actually pretty good. Fun low level rogue gameplay.
Op proving yet again he is the biggest faggot ever.
