Cataclysm zones are now as old as vanilla zones were when Cataclysm came out.
>>345323608
Read that as "Reddit Bridge"
>>345323608
Mmmm, really makes you think.
yes this game is old a fuck and yet never received a sequel
Cataclysm leveling is much better than vanilla leveling.
>time is linear
wow holy shit I'm gonna make a sad frog post about this on Reddit can anyone hook me up with the melty clock sad frog
But Cataclysm zones are still worse than Vanilla zones ever were.
The cata zone changes are the main reason why I'll never go back to the game, ruined it.
>>345323798
Gonna go with this guy. IN vanilla, you could show up in any settlement and immediately starting doing quests for the Horde/Alliance.
Now everything is on rails and needs to be unlocked in one way or another.
My main problem with Cataclysm zone change is that now when you're doing quests you only have 3-4 quests going at a time. Vanilla zones were satisfying because sometimes you could pick up over a dozen quests, go out into the wild for a few hours, then come back and reap all the rewards at once.
I left after the first expansion, dont remember the name now.
What did i miss?
was it good?
>>345324012
I'll agree in that vanilla zones were more interesting in some ways, and had better atmosphere. But the questing is so much better.
After playing on Nostalrius, I was reminded of all the problems vanilla had. Like having to walk the entire length of Duskwood 4-5 times for that Jitters quest line. Or the Stonewatch quests in Redridge which were like 5 levels higher in difficulty than the zone is intended for, and the orc captains on 15-20 minute respawn timers. Or the four goblin parts on the island in the middle of Loch Modan that could only be looted by one player at a time, and had 5 minute respawns, so people literally crowd around the spawn points and have a click race to pick it up. And I could go on.
None of that is a matter of being more "difficult." Vanilla really was just full of so much bullshit.
>>345323798New 1k Needles is comfy as fuck
>>345323798
its still pretty amazing flying over the Thousand Needles desu
only real thing in the game with such large scale
>>345324891
fite me 1v1
>>345324679
Wrath of the Lich king was the following expansion and it saw the highest player base in WoW history
Basically what you missed is..
>Match making tool for players to find instance groups
>Character movement based skills added, such as pulling enemies to you or pulling allies out of fire.
>Mog system that lets you set the appearance of your character using existing gear assets.
>Several class overhauls. Some for the better, some for the worse
>Writing that makes no sense and shits all over the horde
>A bunch of cry babies who think Vanilla was gods gift to man.
>Pokemon style pet battling system for critters
Thats pretty much it.
>>345325154
You forgot the complete revamp to how talents work.
>>345324798
Shh
The bullshit is what brought people together instead of having a button to instantly teleport you everywhere to a dungeon, raid, or battleground.
It was more social!
Also I remember in vanilla I was chilling in Darkshire watching from the sidelines as a Horde and Alliance raid were duking it out
>>345324891
Flooding Thousand Needles was a crime against humanity.
>>345325261
Eh old talent system will be on your artifact weapons in legion so its a moot point
>>345325468
Not really, artifcacts you fill up completely over time, you can't fill up all 3 talent trees in vanilla/TBC
>Cataclysm revamp
>Destroyed zones filled with rushed On rails questing that's essentially 9gag tier memes and fanfiction lore that would make any self respecting oldfag throw up
>>345323797
>purposely attributing 4chan memes to reddit so you can mock them on 4chan
Just leave please
>>345325539
Mechanically its the same thing. You pick a bunch of 0.02% increases over the leveling process until you get one of maybe 3 things that actually does anything useful.
>>345324798
No, Mr Kosak, we aren't buying it.
>>345325107
It won't be 1v1, scum.
>>345323706
>You will never receive a MSN nudge again
>>345325729
>mfw post-cata Westfall
One of my favorite questlines reduced to a fucking CSI parody.
>>345325860
>Implying I ever got any.
>>345325729
This is what bothers me the most about those zones, the godawful humour that completely detracts from the atmosphere of the zones and makes everything a joke. What's weird is that Cata also had some really good questing that generally speaking took itself seriously (Gilneas and Vash'jir) but they get overlooked since people remember the cringey shit in most of the revamped zones and in Uldum.
Not to mention that having Twilights Hammer enemies in damn near every single fucking zone got really boring, just like Orcs did in WoD.
>>345325912
>Redridge is rambo now
I just want my constantly fucked warzone filled with gnolls, orcs and ganking horde back.
>>345326028
Dave Kosak. He's not the sole perpetrator but he's the main driving force behind the retarded changes. Can't say I was a fan of Gilneas, or worgen though. The naga were pretty top notch however!
>>345325729
>mfw those fucking badlands quests
what the FUCK were they thinking
>>345323797
>mentioning reddit
You have to go back
>>345326195
I feel you. Redridge was also one of my favorite zones. I remember killing Yowler with a couple guildmates, now you can just faceroll everything in the zone.
>>345325912
>>345326195
>>345326363
That's what happens when they spread the writing/questing staff too thin, they run out of ideas and have to rely on pop culture for content. The zones really suffered for it, but I think they realised they fucked up with it since it hasn't really happened since.
>>345326323
You don't have to be a fan of it to recognise that it's not all outdated memes and references and actually attempts to provide a consistent experience. Gilneas is about a people losing their homeland, Vash'jir is about being stranded in a strange place and making do with what you have. They both stick to that and evolve as they go along without constantly reverting back to stupid shit. Some other zones in Cata kinda do the same but it's been a while since I've done them, and then there's obviously Uldum.
>>345323798
>Azshara
Pre-patch in two days cunts
who hype
>>345323798
>>345324012
I just started playing Wow, what's so bad about the Cataclysm zones? I'm currently leveling a blood elf Paladin and I'm having way more fun in zones like Hillsbrad Foothills and Thousand Needles than Eversong Woods and Ghostlands. I also tried out a Goblin Rogue and the beginning areas for the Goblin are waaaaay more fun and interesting than for Blood Elf.
>>345326028
>the godawful humour that completely detracts from the atmosphere of the zones and makes everything a joke
This is what baffles me most about Cata. I ran through Blackwing Descent the other day, and ignoring how stupid Nefarian's resurrection already was, Nefarian's lines were a shocking reminder of just how awful the writing was in cata. It wasn't enough for Blizz to write a shit story, but the villains had to crack "silly" jokes and break the fourth wall too.
>>345326694
I get you Anon but I'm just too salty about how the game has been handled, its been bastardized beyond repair for me.
>>345324798
>But the questing is so much better.
Until you've done it once before, then it becomes just as tedious as before, but with zero difficulty.
>tfw you will never ever get a TES-esque rpg set in the Warcraft universe
>You'll never break into Hyjal again and shit yourself exploring such a vast empty unfinished zone
Imagine if Classic was intact.
Imagine if Blizzard liked fun.
Imagine.
>>345326918
post the full pic pls
Remember to hug your local bird!
>>345327059
Are you from the general on /vg/? This sounds like some of the fucking dumb shit they would post.
>>345326879
Why did they have to ruin the way Furion looked.... Why did they ruin everything?
did you know that the pyramids were as old to the romans, as the romans are to us
>>345326828
If you look at the Cata patch content they seemed to dial that back, they seemed to have realised how shit it actually ended up looking and someone put a stop to it.
The game isn't humourless, but what we've gotten since then isn't Borderlands-tier stupidity like that "Slayer of Useless Incompetent Minions" title you get in BWD.
>>345327146I tought I was in /vg/
>>345326918
My understanding is the idiots auctualy deleted all the old world.
>>345326828
Nothing really wrong with Nefarians "resurrection" as he never really died to begin with. Defeating and looting a boss doesn't mean they're dead in canon.
>>345325748
You're a genuine retard.
>Log into Vanilla server
>Most level 60s are AFK on their mount waiting for their PVP queue or waiting for their weekly raid to reset or guild to get on to raid
>trade chat full of memes like anal thunderfury and chuck norris
>tryhards outside of Orgrimmar or Stormwind who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>world PVP are just gankfests where skill doesn't matter when someone higher level or geared than you outplays you
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
Vanilla was so much better guys
>>345324228
This isn't true at all, as someone coming from FF14 to WOW there's far far fewer rails. There's no Main Story Quest that holds your hand through every area in the game and instead you can just show up in an area that suitable for your level and start questing without needing to unlock anything. I just wish it was a little more clear how to get to certain places. The adventure guide tried to send me from the Hillsbrad Foothills to the Hinterlands and I died the instant I walked into the Alterac Mountains. Then it tried to send me to Desolace and I spent forever trying to get there from Orgrimmar without having ever been to Kalimdor before.
>>345327360
Pandaria managed to have pretty good humor. I don't know how intentional it was though, since most of it was in the voiceacting.
But yeah, Cata was a nightmare. It's what happens when you hire a webcomic writer to design things for you, I guess.
>>345326818
fuck you nigger Eversong Woods and Ghostlands are the best zones in the game
if you don't like them you're the reason the game is dying
>>345323608
THE PYRAMIDS WERE AS OLD TO THE ROMANS WHEN THEY DISCOVERED THEM AS THE ROMANS ARE TO US
>>345326763
I hated how they turned that area into a goblin slum, even if it was devoid of content before.
>>345327616
>mfw WoD was fairly serious with little humor
>Except for the major lore figure of the expansion being an autist
>>345327508
Vanilla private servers have an uncanny ability to attract autists and tryhards who thrive in that environment.
>>345327648
Nice bait
>>345326764
No one with any self respect plays this game anymore.
>>345327508
b-b-b-b-but MUH NOSTALGIA
DELETE THIS
>>345326818
I'll try to hit some of the main points without writing a wall of text out of my opinion.
>old quests were much more difficult, which also facilitated group play
>levelling was slower, but the game was less focused on end-game. Now it's just a race to level cap because that's where everyone else is
>old quests had much better writing
>1-60 revamp destroyed the narrative timeline
>geography was changed, sometimes ruining the key traits zones were known for (Desolace has more lush areas now, Barrens isn't one big expansive area, 1k Needles lost the salt flats, the whole LOCH in Loch Modan, etc.)
>many things loved by long time players were lost, never to be experienced again
>>345327875
nice meme
>>345327836
if he doesn't grow a beard in legion i'm going to kill myself
>>345327552
Hopefully they look into migrating some of the dynamic leveling tech in the Legion zones to the current "old world" zones. So you can have a much broader selection of places to go without being stuck with a choice of 3 zones at each tip of the world to level in. Imagine being able to just walk into the next zone along after finishing the current one, at whatever level you wanted?
>>345326828
That whole thing is made to be tounge in cheek anon. That's why it's like Saturday morning cartoon villain lair, complete with monologue and incompetent minions that lament that fact along with the "big bad".
Bad example of that would be Tol Barad. That bitch who casts that 100k a tick thing on you keeps yammering about raiders raiding her and how she hates them, while overall the raid doesn't give you any indication that it's made to be tounge in cheek or anything like a parody.
>>345327971
>Imagine being able to just walk into the next zone along after finishing the current one, at whatever level you wanted?
What would take some level scaling or phasing shit.
>>345327552
That's because FF14 (ARR not 4.0) used modern WoW for the basis for its design and went from there. WoW is still heavily linearized.
>>345327405
>Defeating and looting a boss doesn't mean they're dead
Which is why to this day you can still kill Nefarian in BWL and fucking decapitate him and bring his head back to Stormwind.
But then again I shouldn't expect less form Blizzard.
>Blackwing Lair was merely a setback!
>>345328084
Which is exactly what the new Legion zones have. You can pick and chose where to level and everything will scale accordingly, even with multiple people of varying levels fighting the same mob
>>345328258
I saw some "instance" of that in FFXIV and it wasn't so bad. But that was only downscaling, I don't think the game would ever upscale you.
That would also be weird for the gear rewards in quests. Surely they could have that scale as well, but it kind of kills what I like about the game.
>>345323798
The only thing they did right was that they mostly left Winterspring alone.
They knew they couldn't match perfection.
>>345328091
WOW may be more linear now than it used to be, I dunno. But there's always at least 3 different zones you can go to at any level and start questing there no problem. In FF14 once you leave your starting city you get railroaded on to a MSQ that takes you to every single zone and dungeon which is laid out in a linear progression and you have to do every single side quest if you want to maintain level parity. Even then there's still some zones where you have to go grind FATES or dungeons in order to catch up in level and unlock the quests in the next tier of MSQ. You may think WOW is linear, but it feels incredibly open in comparison to FF14.
>>345327971
This would be cool, but they'd probably have to redo all the quests from the ground up.
>>345328675
And yet they ruined Ashenvale beyond all recognition Why was Ashenvale not spared? :(
>>345327836
>FOR THE AZEROTH
I hate that I always laugh when I see this.
>>345327508
>Log into retail server
>Most level 90s are AFK in their garrisons waiting for their PVP queue or waiting for their weekly raid to reset or guild to get on to raid
>trade chat full of memes like anal thunderfury
>tryhards outside of garrisons who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>world PVP are just gankfests where skill doesn't matter when someone is a higher level or in full pvp resilience gear gank people in pve gear
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
Retail is so much better guys
>>345327836
At least he felt like that was just his personality rather than him spouting shit like going #YOLO during the WoD starter quests when he blows up the dam.
>>345323798
visually, catazeroth is fucking diarrhea, but in terms of gameplay vanilla quests are almost indefensible.
>>345328860
The rest of this is true but I actually haven't seen gold spammers or corpse-signers in years. Blizzard cracked down pretty hard on that a while back and now you can legally buy gold from Blizzard so the Chinese gold market took a huge hit.
>>345328976
Yeah. Khagdar was an annoying character done right.
>>345328258
Legion scaling wouldn't work in the old zones though, how legion scaling works is it takes the mob and puts it at the average level between the players fighting it. The reason it works is because a lv90 player and a lv100 player can both fight the lv95 mob just fine.
If a 60 fought a lv30 mob with a level 1 the level 1 would be decimated.
>>345327508
I'm going to explain to you why Vanilla was better.
For 2003-4, that world was massive.
The quests weren't put in front of you to do, you had to go explore to find quests. You might be underleveled by the time you finished a questline in a zone.
So it pushed you to go to other zones in different racial regions or the next continent to continue questing.
There was no instant port system. You didn't get all the flight paths right away.
You were forced to have your own path of success.
Grouping up to do Elite Quests was generally done with friends.
Even at that the Dungeon System was all by personal request.
My first dungeon wasn't even through the LFG channels, it was by me exploring the Horde Territories at level 45 and coming across a group of alliance looking for one more DPS for SM.
They ended up being my good friends up until Cataclysm.
The Adventure is gone.
It's not because of casualization, it's not just because the game is so simplified.
They took out the aspect of self-determination.
Even on your own personal story they fucked up and made the Player Character (THE HERO). It use to be you had no real place in the story, the story was a side show. So even in the aspect of story, the game was self-determined.
Random raids on Horde towns because you were bored.
Harassing people in STV
Fucking around just because you could. You could probably find something interesting that would lead you on the beginning of hunting down rare gear just by accidently finding an area.
All gone. The game sucks completely right now because of these aspects.
And they refuse to fucking listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tm4Pj6QM8s
>>345327909
These all sounds like the complaints FFXI players have about ARR.
>>345326879
good. TES is shit
>>345329230
This.
All these "improvements" that children cried for just made the game less interesting.
The easier you make fast travel, the less massive does the world feel.
>>345323608
What with this weirdass leather road under the bridge?
>>345326818
>mobs were stronger and often overtuned (such as the infamous Deffias Pillager) encouraging group play while leveling
>way more group quests that required players to group
>much harder to gear characters, reducing the ability of player to easily solo content
>Old Zones focused more on environments and fitting quests to zones. Zone design felt more natural and less formulaic
In general, Vanilla zones and quests felt more natural and expansive, with quest chains leading players all over the zones. In a lot of ways, this was far more tedious than post-cata, yet it allowed for cool and memorable shit (like Stitches) and in my opinion gave the world a better atmosphere. Furthermore, the general class and mob design, along with lack of gear, basically forced players to interact if they wanted to get anywhere with speed. Vanilla wow's leveling experience was far more social than post-cata because of this.
Which isn't to say Vanilla didnt have a lot of issues. The game could be absolute ass if you couldn't find a group, overpopulated zones were hell when trying to tag specific mobs, there were huge content droughts at certain level brackets, and many zones were devoid of content. Still, at the end of the day I preferred Vanilla's world over Cataclysms
>>345327508
>>345328860
So what's the major difference between vanilla and current retail at their core game design?
>>345329506
Basically yeah. There's no reason to ever actually interact with people now. You push a button and you're instantly where you wanna go and now things that took a few hours take ten minutes. MMOs need that kind of tedious quality to them to help foster player interaction and build immersion. I haven't felt immersed in the world for years now.
>>345329230
Everquest's game world was bigger than Vanilla WoW
Questhelper addon was released and defeated this purpose
You could shout in chat for help in a group quest, you didn't need friends just random people.
There was never an adventure in WoW unless you were completely new to MMOs or you actually went out of your way to roleplay in the game.
please don't let me get back int othis game
Did people actually miss the leveling experience in Vanilla/TBC WoW?
What was so exciting about grinding boar meat for some NPC or grinding the same dungeon multiple times for a CHANCE to get a piece of gear?
Can some oldfag WoW player please help me understand why people praised this type of game design so much?
>>345328487
FF14 downscales your character level for FATES and dungeons, but it doesn't alter any of the content to fit to your character's progression. They've come up with some interesting methods to encourage players at level cap to redo old content (like the daily dungeon roulette or the relic quests that require you to grind fates) so that new players have people to do content with and so they downscale your level so that content is still sorta challenging for new players.
>>345329230
vanilla servers are fucking ass nowadays compared to modern wow and I'm glad those days are gone.
The only people who still play vanilla still are the ones who have some superiority complex over knowing every smalld etail about an old game, and those who never experienced vanilla
Vanilla is gone and its for the better , I never want to do a dungeon without group finder again
>>345329724
Basically;
>vanilla
>you wanna run deadmines? hit up zone chat, coordinate with other players, get to the stone, summon everyone, pray to god some tweeker kid didn't get impatient and leave before you started
>retail
>you wanna run Deadmines? press this button. instantly teleported to the dungeon. no one talks. everyone just does their job and goes back to whatever they were doing before
Both philosophies have their merits in some ways, but imo social interaction is the entire point of MMOs and the current game feels very soulless after it was removed in favor of instant gratification.
>>345330083
because they are masochists who want to be hipsters over their nostalgia
>>345330083
>Did people actually miss the leveling experience in Vanilla/TBC WoW?
I miss the vanilla quests but BC questing was always total ass. I could never understand why people said BC quests were an improvement.
>>345329506
I'd like to add to my rant.
I complained about the lack of adventure in leveling, mainly. But even the end game forced you to explore.
If you played the game mainly blind, you'd learn about your experience and how to improve your character by word of mouth.
People were much more social in the end game. Debating on Trade Chat about better gear, lead to people discovering new ways to better their own character.
Guilds were communities, people knew eachother on a much more personal level.
To even raid you had to be in a guild.
Friendships in the game actually meant something.
It wasn't like "Hey, you're a good damage. You're my friend now"
It was developed by socializing with these people. There were things they knew that you didn't, and things you knew that they didn't. Past that, personal interests such as music, movies, other games were also the higher bond in the in-game friendship.
You were pushed to make friends, not be the lonely grinder.
The aspect of community is missing.
The Lonely Grinder is basically manditory, not even optional.
The game was meant to be accessed by those who were openly social.
So again. Blizzard killed their own formula of success and question why.
They can't save WoW. If they want to stay in the SUCCESSFUL MMO market, they need to start from scratch.
>pic is the only other World of Warcraft picture in my folder. Sorry.
>>345329714
Unfortunately, you can't have a questing system that's focused on group play when the majority of players are at level cap. It makes it much more difficult for new players to progress through content than it was for people who started playing at launch.
>teased for years about what was behind the gate in Tanaris
>when we finally get to access Uldum 90% of the zone is devoted to an Indiana Jones spoof
>>345329724
>>345330183
>vanilla
>spend longer making the group than doing the dungeon
>retail
>spend longer waiting for the group finder to pop than doing the dungeon
The difference is that vanilla just plain took longer to do anything so you tended to socialise to pass the time.
>>345330154
faggot
>>345330154
>cucking yourself
Faggot
>>345330183
>vanilla
>LFG deadmines i'm a mage
>get invited to group after spamming for 5 minutes
>say hi
>"hello o/"
>get summoned to the instance
>we go inside
>nobody says anything for the next 10 mins
>"wait I gotta drink for mana" "okay"
>continue going on with the dungeon with minor stops for HP/Mana
>beat the dungeon
>"thanks ^^"
>leave group
>retail
>press queue button
>instantly teleported to dungeon
>say hi
>"hey"
>nobody says anything for the next 10 mins
>"brb"
>continue going on with the dungeon
>"okay back"
>beat the dungeon
>"ty ^_^"
>leave group
it's literally the same shit
>>345329938
Bigger isn't better, you don't have to use quest helper, and sometimes those random people became friends.
I'd argue the reason that I loved WoW so much from the beginning was because it was Warcraft. I loved Warcraft 3 and so WoW's game world had that perfect mix of new and familiar.
>>345330504
>implying I find joy fucking around in trade chat for 2 hours looking for a random to join a group just for him to be total ass and now I have to repeat the process
this is canceled out by being in a guild, which if you are in one with friends literally nothing has changed for you since vanilla anyway
>>345330183
More like.
>vanilla
>You wannt run deadmines? Spam LFG 1 DPS for at least 2h and you might find a group. When you finally find this group everyone needs to get there and that will take around 1h. Then you will run the dungeon without saying a word to the group.
I don't know why people keep memeing about that vanilla was somewhat more social just because it forced you to spam the general chat for hours.
>>345329938
>There was never an adventure in WoW unless you were completely new to MMOs
Literally 90% of the player base at the time.
>>345330294
BC was in "improvement" in that it was hard to run out of quests to do.
post youir favourite city
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEzjtH4s_E
>>345330309
>The aspect of community is missing.
While this is completely true, it's not fair to put all the blame on Blizzard for this. If you look at video games as a whole, there has been a massive change in the behavior of the online gaming "community" over the last 8 years or so. This is partly why every other MMO these days also has an automatic group finder. A lot of new FPS games have matchmaking rather than a server browser. The people playing these games have changed, and Blizzard just caved in to this new crowd.
>>345330154
Faggot.
>>345329974
You mean you'll pay for a subscription, log in and then stand around in your garrison because there is nothing else to do. The game is also dying in terms of population.
Go buy a half decent game with that money instead,
>>345330393
>The difference is that vanilla just plain took longer to do anything so you tended to socialise to pass the time.
Which is what makes MMOs unique, isn't it?
>be on Nostalrius
>running RFK
>decide to ambush horde at the elevator to 1k needles while we wait for the last two members of our group to arrive
>end up having low level group world pvp
>had more fun waiting for the dungeon to start than in the actual dungeon
Vanilla took a lot more time to do anything, but it wasn't all tedious grinding.
>>345329230
yeah vanilla wow is hardy perfect and easily the most unbalanced wow, blizzard made vast improvments to the game, but they took it into the wrong direction
>>345330747
Ironforge. Always Ironforge.
>tfw seeing someone in full purps in vanilla IF and you knew right away the guy was a fucking badass
>tfw lusting over those stats more than you've ever lusted over women
>>345330380
Yeah. Even by TBC, players were too spread out and it was difficult to form groups for group content like instances or outdoor elite zones especially in vanilla areas.
>>345330585
You'd also share quests in vanilla but yeah if you didn't have someone that's really social people would usually be quiet.
The urge to resub is rising, help me friends
>>345330590
While bigger isn't better, EQ had a lot more content than WoW did and actually emphasized socializing a lot more than WoWs forced group quests/instances. You couldn't even make it to the next town in Everquest without having a group to escort you there, that's how deadly the world was. In WoW you can just buy a mage portal or turn off your PVP flag and walk the roads.
You didn't have to use quest helper, but people in-game expected you to use it. During Vanilla it was the #1 most downloaded addon of all time. It got to the point where people were too lazy to explain quests and just told you to refer to thottbot or questhelper.
I understand that WoW was many peoples first MMO but it really didn't do a lot of things right.
>>345331271
It will be fun for max 1day and then you realize that you just spent a month sub playing a game with nothing to do.
At least wait until Legion if you're going to try it again
>>345331271
Wait two days for the legion expansion patch
>>345331271
>"The itch tingles, but never scratch"
>>345331271
Why the fuck would you resub now? To do some shitty pre-expansion event with shitty pre-expansion rewards with shitty-pre expansion imbalance? Then when you've done that you can sit around afk in your Garrison for the next 7 days and 23 hours until the event switches to the next shitty stage.
>>345330380
I guess retail wow is so bloated with leveling content from prior expansions, streamlining it as much as possible is the best of bad options.
>>345327552
You don't go to Alterac when going to Hinterlands from Hillsbrad. There's a path north of Durnholde Keep.
>>345325154
>and it saw the highest player base in WoW history
Yeah, because BC was fucking amazing, so all the casuals heard "oh shit WoW is growing even more with another awesome expansion?", went out there alot and bought it. Has nothing to do with WotlK.
>>345331104
>Ironforge during Winter Veil
>>345331443
This is why they now include level boosts for free with new expansions, so people can skip straight to the new content with one character.
>>345331513
The game peaked about halfway through Wrath I think.
>>345331152
Yep. Blizz had to take a giant nerf bat to most of those group quests, reducing them in scale to 2-3 man content to accommodate the newer distribution of players.
I think WoW was pretty much unavoidably fucked in the long term. While I think certain things could have been avoided, it was already apparent during early Vanilla that WoW was primarily an end game instanced content focused MMO. Since the expansion packs focused on a new level cap, it was inevitable that the leveling process was going to get fucked to accommodate the ever growing gap between starting a character and reaching "the proper game"
>>345330747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyQiK8cGCHw
>>345331768
All Themepark MMOs follow this unevitable end. The only way solve this is to move away from the vertical progression system and use a more horizontal progression system akin to PSOBB or FFXI.
>>345331335
>You didn't have to use quest helper, but people in-game expected you to use it.
I have no recollection of this.
>You couldn't even make it to the next town in Everquest without having a group to escort you there, that's how deadly the world was.
I'd definitely agree that WoW was more "tame" than prior MMOs. That might have been the reason why it succeeded in the first place. It was casual enough, relatively speaking, to draw in people who would otherwise not be playing this type of game.
Really, I'd equate your fondness for Everquest and my fondness to WoW to how people feel about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Namely, whichever one you played first was your favorite because it set the standard.
>>345331271
the best thing about playing Nostalrius is that it made me realize just how fucked WoW is. Not just current Retail, but all of it. Vanilla was a fun but deeply flawed experience, and every expansion since has fixed some aspect of it while ruining another. WoD + Nostalrius has freed me from the sub withdrawal.
>>345323757
>Cataclysm leveling is much faster than vanilla leveling.
ftfy. Levelling alone vs with hundreds of players in your zone alone. Tough choice.
>>345331768
This is true. Unfortunately they kinda painted themselves into a corner as far as leveling and game content goes and it'll probably get hit with another overhaul within the next year or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxEUKOwKnpU
What does this song make you think of, anon?
>>345332051
I still wish it hadn't died. Easily the most fun I've had with a videogame in years.
A serious question here, is Blizzard intentionally trying to ruin WoW? I find it hard to believe that a game company that's been working with games for so long can basically just ignore one of the most sub based games losing over half of their subs. I mean they must realize that WoD was a total disaster and most of their design choices didn't work and was shit, and despite that they do the same shit with Legion.
And why do they not actually put a little effort on the game? You can't seriously have a sub based MMO and not put out content for 12months. If they actually did make some content now and then more players would be playing and they would make a higher profit. I really don't get Blizzard, are they just incompetent,lazy or do they actually want to kill WoW?
It does not take a genius to see that Blizzard can do a lot of stuff to get a lot of more players back.
>>345332119
Sunken Temple, Dustwallow Marsh
>>345331768
>I think WoW was pretty much unavoidably fucked in the long term. While I think certain things could have been avoided, it was already apparent during early Vanilla that WoW was primarily an end game instanced content focused MMO.
I feel like a massive faggot, but I always enjoyed the leveling the most. For the first few expansions, anyway.
>>345332224
I've picked back up again on Kronos, near equal, just less populated.
>>345332246
Hearthstone has made a shitload of money with significantly less cost put into it, that probably changed a lot within the higher ups at the company.
>>345332246
WoW has and always been a cash cow for Blizzard. They don't need to put effort into something that is still raking in million of dollars each month despite being on the market for 12 fucking years.
>>345332119
a confused dwarf, wondering what happened to all these night elves
>>345331529
That's a heartwarming webm right there.
>>345332360
No, I enjoyed it the most too. Adventuring in the world of Warcraft is what brought me to the game, and the leveling process best encapsulated that. I still enjoyed instances, but they were at their best when they came as the climax of a zone's (or multiple zones') story and quests
>>345330385
>hating on Uldum
kill yourself nigga
>>345332426
But they could make a even bigger profit it they just put a little more effort in the game.
It's sad to see that this is the new trend for video game companies like Blizzard and Valve, despite them having a super popular game they nearly ignore it because people play it but if they actually would put a little more effort even more people would play it and they would make more cash. It's also so insulting to the players playing the game.
>>345332390
Is there an RP community on Kronos Horde side? Pre-blood elf Horde RP was comfy as fuck.
>>345332702
Ah not sure, I'm sure there's a guild dedicated to it, though I can't answer that, sorry fella
>>345332119
running from crocodiles and killing sludges in the wetlands
>>345332360
I never understood the appeal of vanilla leveling then and now. All you did was grind solo kill X, collect Y quests until you eventually hit instance quests (deadmines) or group quests (hogger).
A lot of people on /v/ seems to say that leveling in Vanilla was half the experience, but I recall most of everyone in vanilla/TBC back in the day wanting to skip the leveling so they can actually get to the "hard" content. I daily saw people speedrun/powerlevel through SM cath to get fast EXP, I saw mages just gathering mobs in their level appropriate zones and blizzard them all down because it was better EXP than just running around doing turn in quests, there were also people out there who were also selling level 60 WoW accounts in-game they botted just so people can skip the grind and get to the "real" game.
>>345330747
It's a shame that it was so out of the way and underpopulated.
I feel like the night elf zones have aged the best as far as vanilla zones go.
>>345332664
The zone itself is great, the quest content being devoted to shoving in as many Indiana Jones references as is humanly possible detracted from the experience. It could've been amazing, but they fucked it up.
>>345332664
Uldum would've been miles better if it didn't rely on that (not)Indiana Jones for a good chunk of the plot. It would've been Storm Peaks-tier otherwise.
>>345332679
This isn't a Blizzard/Valve exclusive thing, this is EVERY AAA game developer. Money comes first, making a good product comes second.
>>345326860
>but with zero difficulty.
This is a good thing
Leveling is the most pointless part of every MMO and it's just a chore until you get to max level.
Anything that lets you get to the real part of the game faster is good. Don't really feel like playing hundred hour of nonsense to get to the real game.
>>345332702
Pre-Belf Horde in general was good. Now every faggot and their mother is a Belf hunter or paladin.
Same thing happened to Alli when they introduced Worgen. Suddenly, furfags everywhere.
>>345327058
personalami
>>345327552
>i never played vanilla but I know it's not as good as cataclysm because FFXIV
okay
>>345332946
Nah, blood elf pallies are cool, especially if the player does a good job of RPing them. Doubly so once they learned to chill post-BC.
>>345323608
It would be nice if blizzard would eventually trash WoW and make a proper sequel with good gameplay. It would never happen because of the risk involved with making a new mmo, but I'd play it.
>>345331768
I used to flip flop between Guild Wars and WoW back then, and I really wished Guild Wars would introduce a group finder or something so I could clear some PvE content (since all of them are group content). Or even just an AH so I need not hop between 3~4 hubs to sell shit to players.
Finally, in their nightfall expansion, they introduced NPC robots that you can command and gear up so you could just play the whole game solo and fuck socializing altogether.
>>345325451
>crime against humanity.
Wasn't 1k Needles controlled by the Tauren though?
>>this whole thread
>vanilla
>summoning stone
>>345331438
I don't think you said shit enough.
>>345333457
Of all the problems with that post, that's what you point out?
>>345332773
What's the huge appeal of end game content? Pvp, sure. Vanilla's honor system was cool and at the same time a shitfest. Raiding? Playing a rogue in MC against Ragnaros is just backstabbing and occasionally stepping back to avoid an AoE attack. And if you're playing real hard, your time spent in between raids is time spent farming for flasks and shit which is definitely less exciting than leveling. Getting a 40 man raid to coordinate and work together is cool, but I get that kind of enjoyment in 5 man dungeons. In raids, you expect everybody to have an optimal spec and be geared. In dungeons, your group composition is much less ideal, and sometimes you have to think of unique was to win with what you've got.
>>345327720
I never realised that they terraformed it into a sideways horde logo.
>>345333443
WotLK was Naxx
>>345333607
I didn't notice that either. What the hell. The Zone is called "Azshara." That has a lot of history that isn't horde tied to it.
Any game that lets you bot is a shit game. WoW is so easy that a fucking computer program can be scripted to do PVE content.
post best wow music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNstdF54ypo
>>345333607
Makes me cringe every time I see it. And Blizzard tries to deny that they slurp on Horde cock 24/7.
>>345330385
>hating one of the best zones and quest lines
you know what, you can keep all your "good vs bad" or "save the world" quest lines, I'll just take my adventure all for my self
>>345323798
No one who hasn't played the game before probably could even tell the difference looking at these separately. This whole idea was a joke.
I will never not be mad about Azshara.
>>345332119
Fighting 24h a day for Devilsaur spawns on Nostalrius
>>345333830
Not anymore, there's some ghosts around but they only exist for laughs, like Azuregos.
>>345328860
>Most level 90s
>tryhards outside of garrisons who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>resilience
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
So you've never actually played the game and just spout whatever memes you heard people talk about like a good little retarded monkey?
Because literally all of those are wrong and don't apply to WoD.
>>345324798
Until people realize that inefficient systems and mechanics bring players together then the understanding of how to restore the community will not be gained.
MMO's suffer with too much polish.
>>345333843
The only thing Cata did right was soundtracks. Sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URh8ca89olM
>>345333903
People shat on Uldum so much I think they didn't actually play it. The entire thing was a blast.
They should have just got rid of the level system in WoW from day one. They stagnated their game design by designing their content around levels instead of designing their content around each classes unique skills you can accumulate.
>>345334250
if you were stupid enough to buy wod you don't deserve a serious answer
>>345334476
kill yourself
you're the cancer killing /v/
>>345333830
>rape one of the most unique and beautiful zones from vanilla WoW because of "FOR THE HORDE SO EPIC FOR THE WIN!!!11"
>>345332246
>blizzard's face when they realized they could make more money with a flop than with a hit
>>345332927
Levelling is part of the game. The idea that Endgame PvE is the real game is one of the cancers that killed MMOs. That and stories that make the protagonist to be "the one hero".
>>345334378
The Cata soundtrack is good but it's not a world soundtrack.
They completly ignored the ambient feel of vanilla soundtrack and created a new one that 90% of the players mute because it's just loud noises 24/7
it's good music, not a good soundtrack
>>345329230
>Even on your own personal story they fucked up and made the Player Character (THE HERO). It use to be you had no real place in the story, the story was a side show. So even in the aspect of story, the game was self-determined.
Except Human/Alliance players are kinda the only thing holding Stormwind together from going all out anarchy and civil war in the vanilla story line.
>>345333830
Yeah and the goblins came and fucked it all up with a tacky travesty of self indulgence.
Like the goblins they are. It fits perfectly.
>>345334552
>I feel the need to use a reaction picture everytime I post
it's just like on rebbit!
>>345334660
>Endgame PvE is the real game is one of the cancers that killed MMOs
even WoWs lead game designer believes that endgame is the real game and leveling is just filler to act as a tutorial to the games mechanics and extend your monthly sub payments as long as possible
>>345334404
I'm surprised you've even quested there yourself, considering you seem to lack even the most basic reading skills.
Nobody's complaining about the zone itself, genius. That parts has been spelled out for you multiple times. The major problem is the painfully transparent "Harrison Jones" NPC and how the whole quest chain is a parody. You could have written an original chain of archeological quests that didn't just spoof movies 90% of the player base is too young to have even seen, but that's just how shit Blizzard's writers are.
>>345334763
>Complaining about images on an image board
>>345326918
I don't understand why they kept trying to fix what wasn't broken. It was on the up and up from vanilla to wrath, and they decide "this shit sucks" and change everything. I can't understand it.
>>345334763
kys
>>345334589
Admittedly it was lacking for content, but I actually kind of liked the zone the way it was. I never leveled a character without stopping by to do the handful of quests it provided. They literally could have invented another island to give the Goblins their 10-20 questing hub. That's what they did with the Draenei.
It was doomed because of its close proximity to Orgrimmar.
>>345334829
Woah man, you too because I just said specifically that the Harrison Jones stuff was a blast.
I'm sorry you didn't like the aliens in Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull but Uldum is still a blast.
>>345334054
>I will never not be mad about Azshara.
That's the exact phrase that comes to my mind whenever I think about Cataclysm.
>>345334404
>NINE NINE NINE HITLER JOKE AMIRITE GUYS?
>INDIANA JOOONES REFERENCESSS
>PYGMEEESSS
Uldum was shit
>>345334668
I'll give you that. I think the pieces evoke the zones they are set to well, but that doesn't mean they should be played on repeat.
>>345323757
The only thing they need to fix is the pace really. Levelling 1-60 is way too short.
Not to mention you start off during the cataclysm. Cant stand that leap into the third expansion straight away.
>>345334589
What happened to Azshara ought be enough for any self-respecting elf to declare jihad against the Horde.
>>345334763
>>345335148
Pretty sure they're lengthening the 1-60 leveling with Legion, I remember something about that.
Looked at my bnet account and saw I had WoD access even though I never bought it. Just resubbed. How long does it take to level to 100? I'm 90 right now.
>>345335106
to be fair, the default setting for the soundtrack was not repeat. So the song would only play once and then it would be quite for quite a few minutes before it faded in again. Helped with the ambiance
>>345323798
>Flooding Thousand Needles
>Make cringey Horde symbol on Azshara
>Not updating Tanaris in the slightest
>Flooding part of Darkshore, making it a pain to traverse through it compared to vanilla
That's how much I'm willing to give you.
>>345335225
About 23 hours of work.
>>345335225
Few days if you quest in Spires of Arak.
>>345335225
Not too long, you could probably be 100 by the time the Legion pre-expansion event kicks off if you're interested in that. The leveling experience in WoD is one of the better ones in the entire game.
>>345335225
You could probably do it today if you just rush through and do all the bonus objectives. It took me about a week but I like to do every quest and explore all the zones while I level.
>>345323608
WE LIVED CLOSER TO T REX AS THE T REX LIVED TO STEGOSAURUS
I'M NOT EVEN LYING.
Azuremyst Isle is probably on of my favorite yet it gives me the creeps everytime I level there.
Feels like you're truly alone there
>>345335225
Without heirlooms 8 hours is easy as fuck to do
With heirlooms and exp potion you can do it in 3-4 hours easily
>>345335291
Also the whole Defias in Westfall, now is just bad.
>>345335590
Why would he use heirlooms at lvl 90, retard.
>>345335647
Why would he not?
>>345335518
It means they did a good job then, since that's exactly the kind of experience the Draenei who landed there would've felt. First time on a new world, no idea what the fuck it's going to be like, no idea who you can trust or what dangers are out there.
>>345334820
>even WoWs lead game designer believes that endgame is the real game
And since they started making the game entirely around end-game, the playerbase collapsed.
Maybe they need a new lead.
>>345335432
That's fucked.
>>345335291
I feel like the only person who was mad as fuck about the changes to Desolace.
>>345335161
Blizzard will never write any sort of retaliation for the Alliance. Their precious horde would be too upset about it.
>>345335701
Because they don't scale past 60 unless you upgrade them. And he's not going to have the gold to do that at lvl 90.
>>345323608
11 year olds playing CoD MW2 when it came out can now post on /v/.
>>345335817
No one really goes there so it gets looked over in favor of being mad about the more accessible zones.
Say what you want about current WoW and how little there is to do at endgame, but lets be honest here: Blizzard always manages to create amazing looking and comfy zones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlXJJoXW2qM
>>345335771
They don't need a new lead, the game still makes millions of dollars each month. Dude is already set for life.
>>345335639
>I guess he put the cart... before the horse.
Memes.
>>345335935
blizz's art team has always been top notch when it comes to environments
>>345323798
>no run for menethil harbor anymore
>>345336046
AQ 40 isn't very good
>Try WoW for the first time
>"Hey, this isn't too bad!"
>Start doing quests in first zone
>Can't get anything done because of people riding on heirloom sidecarts ganking all the quest enemies
>Finally kill enough
>Hoping the next quests let me explore the area
>QUEST COMPLETED, and I'm immediately too high level for this zone to be of any significance
>rinse and repeat for several levels and zones
>try Battlegrounds because it sounds fun
>get fucking annihilated by heirloom faggots
this isn't fun
>>345335308
>>345335338
>>345335381
>>345335406
Thanks buddies. Gonna try and reach 100 before Legion world event.
>>345336046
If only their gear design team was on point.
>Every tier set has giant shoulderpads
>All endgame gear has to have some sort of particle effect
>>345336107
At least the soundtrack made it feel kinda weird.
Not that you'd have music enabled while raiding.
>>345323608
The updated zones work better mechanically but I don't like how a lot of them are used to hype up the battle with deathwing, which players will probably never do now. The original zones all had self-contained stories that made sense regardless of which expansion you were playing them in.
>>345334763
>>345323798
Is there one for Azeroth?
>>345329246
Except the geography part, 1.0 geography was complete garbage.
>>345336046
Yeah that's my point.
There is not a single other game where I can just run around for hours, just looking at the environment
>>345336237
The gear design varies so much it makes me wonder if they're smoking crack half the time when working
Half the sets are so goddamn ugly, while half the sets are amazing looking
>>345336191
This is why I stopped subbing.
>>345336323
I always felt bad for the music guys. They go through all that trouble to make music for raids, try to make them fit the boss, and edit it to suit the phases, but raiders will almost always turn it off.
>>345336191
Heirlooms ruined the early levels of WoW. Worst thing to ever come to the game, it's not even fun. Whenever I want to do low level PvP or questing, I have to grind on my 100s just to make sure I have every heirloom.
>>345336369
Guess you mean Eastern Kingdoms
>but it was called Azeroth in WC1
No, only the Kingdom of Stormwind was called Azeroth
>>345335817
Yeah Desolace too, but the other were more upsetting to me.
>have some fond memories of leveling in strange places
>basically the zones everybody though sucked ass because they didn't offer the best rewards
>looking up shit right now
>it is all gone
Blizzard fucked up big time with the revamp of vanilla zones. Not that I care too much, I don't play anymore and don't think I will ever again
