Why did its popularity fall?
Someone mentioned dreamhack was going on and I think it peaked at 15k viewers. It used to draw 150,000.
Is the game itself a reflection of the viewers or did MOBAs surpass it?
Blizz went full retard with not only the story, but the forced competitiveness with SC2. SC was great and because of it (and obviously a lot of balance) a competitive community grew from it - with SC2 they tried to force that right out the gate and thanks to it we have boring fucking units, boring fucking metas and now the game is basically dead.
>>345050650
It doesn't matter cause Overwatch saved Blizzard.
Or alternatively I guess it could have just been a 6 year old game that couldn't keep viewers for this long.
>>345050841
This is why I have Overwatch filtered. What the fuck does OW have to do with anything? Why was Blizzard in trouble? They have WoW. Even in its declining years WoW prints cash.
I'm asking why SC2 is no longer in the limelight.
>>345050838
No I think that that would only explain why it wouldn't be initially popular. Which it was. SC2 achieved success almost unparalleled for RTS games and absolutely unparalleled in the modern era.
I want to know why it's dead now.
>>345050650
the game is just shit. the people still following it will not accept it but the game has some fundamentally garbage things that, if removed, would immediately make tons of people return to the game. but the vocal community that is left behind is against most of them (that's why they are the ones still playing - they actually like this shit game exactly the way it is except for balance).
concrete examples: remove macro mechanics (larvae/mule/chrono boost). I do not know in what universe it is a good idea to introduce a mechanic that has no strategic depth what so ever (in a fucking strategy game) with literally no purpose other than to artificially increase the APM required to play the game (this is what they actually stated when they were introduced back in WoL).
it's understandable to want to have a high APM cap in a game like this, but for fucks sake, what kind of shit designer thinks doing it with macro mechanics is a good idea?
>>345053873
neat an actual reply. thanks.
>>345053873
>cont
if you wanna have something that increases apm required, then make units more microable, make units take advantage of terrain better (for example by not having every unit by half a pixel big such that 200000 units fit up a small gap in half a second) such that players actually have to pay attention to that stuff instead of roughly positioning once and then a moving, while using 99% of their apm to do boring stuff like reinject larvae spam qqqqqq to build stuff.
half the units in the game are just utter shit designs that don't scale with effort invested in using them at all, or player skill. you have stuff like the sentry whose core focus is reducing the microability of the enemy units (i.e. reducing the skill that the player can use), which is retarded, tons of units are "easy to use, easy to master, but no increasing pay-off if you use them well" like ravager and actually most other units in the game.
>>345050650
I went back and played starcraft 1 on B.net and it was really fun, I joined a noobs game knowing full well that the only people player were really good player I got completely rekt. Starcraft Broodwar is still the best RTS. Followed very closely by Warcraft 3 tft
>>345053873
>>345054245
>cont
make better units that require positioning, micro, timing etc. and that actually scale with player skill like all of the core units that were used in brood war meta, and like practically the entire roster of warcraft 3 units. I know this is a lame ass generic advice and if they had a creative midas touch so to speak they would've done it long ago. but then again I'm also not sure if they know of much better stuff they could do but just don't have time to implement it.
the game has some other minor faults but those are the big ones.
now then there's the stuff surrounding the game. the division and league system. my god for fucks sake how can you screw up something that badly for so long. I'll actually start in the next reply on this one.
>>345054460
The gook they hired to balance and put the game together fucked up big time. I fucking hate David Kim.
>>345054245
>cont
so they design the ladder system and they seriously thought in a competitive game where it's practically all about measuring your e-peen it's a good idea to hide the player in one of countless meaningless divisions, and have you farm abstract 'points' which are not only relatively meaningless in and of themselves (since you need third party stuff to even look up other peoples points in the first place), but they decide to fucking INFLATE those points with even more meaningless bonus points! what the fuck blizzard!
they literally could have just copied the warcraft 3 leveling system where you gained xp for winning and lost xp for losing and it and you knew "man I'm level 45 this is actually pretty good" and "there's like only 1 guy with level 60 in the entire server right now" and would have been fucking PERFECT. fluff it up with all their development money (that instead went into this shit league system) and youre golden.
>>345051769
It's mostly dead due to the rising popularity of MOBAs, especially LoL. The skill floor for SC2 is way way higher than LoL, and LoL is free. To even start to be decent at SC2 you have to not only know the strategy behind the game as well as current unit compositions, but a shitload of mechanical skill as well. Playing early on against a protoss player as any other race would make you want to commit suicide because once they get a deathball going you're basically fucked. Back in WoL the only way to beat a deathball as a Terran player was to get MMMVG (Marine Marauder Medivac Viking Ghost), micro the shit out of your ghosts to try and get some good EMPs for their templars while microing your vikings at the same time to kill colossus, all while trying to maintain the meat of your army. Meanwhile, if you fuck up the protoss player can end you with some psi-storms and a simple a-click.
This sort of goes hand in hand with the issue that the SC2 devs were constantly leaving the players in the dark as far as balance updates go. Players made large, long-winded suggestions on the forums about possible balance solutions only for the devs to release something completely superfluous to anything anybody was talking about. This is especially relevant in WoL because infestor broodlord was hands down the strongest comp in the game, basically impossible to beat as Terran unless the zerg majorly fucks up, and a coinflip for Protoss as it required you to land a really good vortex from your (required) mothership along with a whole expensive army of your own. This comp went unchallenged for nearly a year and was only fixed with the release of HoTS. They literally released an expansion to fix the problem rather than try to fix it through balance updates.
>>345053873
>>345054245
>>345054460
>>345054846
Holy fuck if only blizzard weren't fucking retarded.
You sir are 110% correct.
>>345054846
so now after how many years have they finally decided to at least display your MMR and your progress towards next or previous rank. now we basically have the WC3 leveling system except youre still hidden in meaningless divisions where there's no meaningful competition between you and other people in the same divsion.
of course they did all of this shit for normies. the thinking they explained way back when was that they wanted players to have local rivalries within divisions or something.
I have a feeling that was wrong anyways (I don't think people give a shit about that, even normies just wanna know where they are globally and don't care about this spoon fed normie shit), but regardless it's a totally schizophrenic way to spend your design efforts - on the one hand make a game that so artificially hard that you introduce retarded mechanics to increase APM requirement - on the other hand try to spoonfeed farm ville players? what were they thinking?
>>345051769
>SC2 achieved success almost unparalleled for RTS games and absolutely unparalleled in the modern era.
Because it came off the back of the previously most successful RTS game.
I bought SC2 for the story missions and damn was I disappointed.
The entire campaign was either "handholding go here go there" or "build a base and defend these points". Even on the hardest difficulty there really wasn't much challenge.
And the story. Jesus how on earth did they manage to fuck up the story that bad. Jim doing a full 180 heel turn. QoB being the 'chosen one'. It was actually worse than bad fanfiction.
I never thought I'd feel ripped off by paying full price for a starcraft game...
>>345055158
if they wanted to do actually AWESOME stuff for normies, they would have introduced a CS:GO or TF2 like skin system ages ago. I mean how hard is it to figure out that normies like to collect and show off awesome stuff, and then in 2015 after every other game on the face of the earth already had that progression shit in for 5 years, they finally decide to add custom skins to units and have like what... 4 alternative skins per race or something? WHHYYYYYY BLIZZARD WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR GAME?
>>345050650
Something which I never understood.
Why no other games used a movement+aiming system similar to bloodline champions?
Why there aren't MOBA games focused on coop and different map objectives?
>>345051769
that guy is right. it came off the back of the previously most successful rts ever made and it had the best advetising in the world of any rts ever made. of course it had a huge initial popularity. but because of the reasons the guy said its popularity dwindled.
Blizz could have released a shitty 2d turn based strategy game all done with 1 voice actor and it still would have had a huge amount of popularity at the start because of the millions of starcraft fans who wanted to see what 2 would be like and all the wow fans who buy new blizzard games because they are blizz fanboys.
>Battle.net 2.0
>shitty campaign
>added nothing to the gameplay of SC after 10 years of development
>got rid of Kerrigans VA because this new bitch was hotter and sucked more dicks
>>345055412
so to close this off, one of the most ridiculous things I've heard from them are their repeated claims that the SC2 team hasn't been downsized and that like 200 people are working on the game.
no fucking way man. I know they have literally had this repeated by several designers like browder and david kim, but it's just not possible. I mean the ladder 'overhaul' was in development for like 9 months after they announced it and it was what... some fancy new animations when you rank up, a counter that displays your points and a progress bar to show where you are in terms of ranking up/down?
and it's not like the other 195 people are working on campaign or coop content then. in the time they add some new heroes and a few short campaign missions for the nova shit (in an engine they've worked with for YEARS) other developers shit out entirely new games.
I can only get the impression that the SC2 team now has mostly incompetent people left in their dev team.
Too git gud for normies
Too accesible for /v/ brood war nostalgia autists
Absolutely terrible story
>>345050650
Combination of the increasing casualisation of gamers, and Blizzard mismanaging the game during the peak of it's popularity.
Gamers these days don't like to be challenged too much, and they like frequent rewards and lots of "small victories". SC2 doesn't really offer this, it's hard and punishing if you fuck up and wins can sometimes take a very long time.
Blizzard also allowed Brood Lord/Infestor to happen, a period where the balance and meta were so shit that it killed a ton of interest in the game from more casual fans. The complete and total lack of attention Blizzard paid to SC2 during it's peak years of 2011-2012 drove people away from the game.
>>345055845
>and it's not like the other 195 people are working on campaign or coop content then. in the time they add some new heroes and a few short campaign missions for the nova shit (in an engine they've worked with for YEARS) other developers shit out entirely new games.
>
>I can only get the impression that the SC2 team now has mostly incompetent people left in their dev team.
I mean that could be true. If 100 were jobbers that answered phones, got coffee, delivered packages. 50 were marketers or marketing analysts. 10 were developers. 30 were managers. et cetera.
>>345055845
I believe the Heroes of the Storm team and the SC2 team are made up of mostly the same people. That could be where they get those high numbers from. There are a few hundred people working on the game but very few of them working on it full time
>>345050841
Overwatch won't last. Just like hearthstone. Its over hyped now but it'll fade by the end of the year.
>>345056567
the game had too many of these invincible builds, protoss at one point would two base all in zerg and could do absolutely nothing, terran could 1/1/1 and protoss could do absolutely nothing. Other things too like making the maps larger, decentivizing cheesy openings, units with only one purpose etc etc
>>345057210
ya the fact that the soul train build and the 1/1/1 in the right hands were unstoppable for long periods of time didn't help at all :/
>>345056936
With the money they're putting into Overwatch? People said SC2 wouldn't last and it's still going even if it's fallen far. Overwatch is a long term investment for Blizzard and they WILL keep it alive by throwing money at it.
>>345053873
What's wrong with additional larvae, mules and chrono boost?
Queens being able to spawn more larvae isn't too much of an APM increase, since larvae take a while to spawn and you only need to decide what 7 units you want. Mules are basically super SCVs that you ignore while they mine for you. Chrono boost is a passive buff that increases how fast a building does shit.
Like, I can see how each thing speeds up stuff so you need to act faster but it's honestly not a lot more. I don't think this is a good example of something wrong with the game.
sc2 was popular because people thought it would be the new broodwar. but eventually that hype faded away. it was just all bad. some people herald wol as the glory days, but...how? that was when balance was the worst. not to say that the balance these days is great. the problem that I see is that the top tier people/ex-bw players love showing off their apm. so things like useless macro (larva, mules, chrono) is always going to be in the game, just so they can show off. its why sc2 is such a macro heavy game and no one wants to watch that shit. they want to watch fights. but the only fights that happen end up on the mineral lines either through harass or just expansion denial.
>>345058151
the thing thats wrong with them is that they could be easily automated. they have been in the past. in the campaign, and when they actually did a beta update to remove all that stuff. but people cried because it would lower their apm and they'd have to concentrate on doing other things.
>>345058293
>but the only fights that happen end up on the mineral lines either through harass or just expansion denial.
That sucks but I don't see how it could have been much different.
>>345058293
Automated? How would that work? Like, additonal larvae and MULEs cost energy after all so would you want to automate that? You don't want to suddenly need a different skill only to find out your energy has been depleted. How would automating chrono boost work? Would it auto target the nearest building that's doing something? Or auto target the one that's doing the longest task? I can see how that would be helpful, but only as long as you have the option to over ride it. I might want to produce units faster rather than research upgrades faster you know?
I only got SC2 a month or two ago and haven't really done much of the campaign admittedly. I'm terrible at Starcraft and RTS games in general, I only really got it out of a feeling of obligation sinceI'm Korean
>>345050650
Blizzard sucks at balance. I personally quit in the last year of HotS, because the meta was stagnant for nearly the entire year. At the Masters level, there was pretty much one viable build for TvP, and if you didn't pressure enough or micro perfectly, you just lost. TvT and TvZ were kinda fun still, but it seemed like every other game was TvP.
On top of that, in the competitive scene, almost all the foreigners don't get any results. I haven't followed since I quit, but Stephano was going to retire, and there was no other foreign hope really. Scarlett never put up results as good, and there were no top-tier P or T players.
>>345058140
People will move to Quake because it offers servers with higher tick rates and more intense gameplay.
>>345058853
>I'm terrible at Starcraft and RTS games in general, I only really got it out of a feeling of obligation sinceI'm Korean
>>345059425
Bullshit they will, it's an entirely different audience. If high tick and intense gameplay was their target audience then they'd be playing CS:GO or TF2.
That's who Quakes gonna skim off, not OW. OW is for people that just wanna fuck around and shoot each other.
>>345059286
they region locked koreans out of most tournaments this year. if you only like foreigners now is the time to come back. Stephano and Scarlett are both back now and getting better and the best foreigner is an American protoss named Neeb
>>345059453
>My little brother is better at Starcraft than I am
>So is my cousin
>So are my friends
>I'm basically the only fucking Korean who can't Starcraft
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if I played a game against my 7 year old niece and get fucking destroyed.
>>345053873
>concrete examples: remove macro mechanics (larvae/mule/chrono boost)
This is one of the reasons I never played multiplayer. I really hated all of those mechanics. They just felt like busywork.
>>345059634
I'm watching a replay of the matches earlier today from DreamhackWhich is why I made the threadand Polt, who is Korean, is competing. The tournament is in Spain.
>>345059737
Isn't Overwatch supposed to be the new big thing?
>>345050650
Because modern Blizzard are hacks and once people realized how stale and boring SC2 was they left for MOBAs.
At least MOBAs are fun, Blizzard outright killed every ounce of fun in SC2 just for the competitive scene.
>>345059862
sure but only koreans who live overseas are allowed to complete. Polt, Violet, TRUE, Hydra and a few less relevant ones are allowed but foreigners like Neeb can often beat these guys.
>>345059634
Maybe I'll start getting back into it. I was always a Terran fanboy though. And there never were any good foreign terrans. DeMusilm never showed up. Polt is actually Korean. Never really followed MajOr. And QXC also never showed up outside the one time he all-killed IM, plus he's retired now.
Plus, I'm so out of touch with the current state. I have no clue what LotV has introduced and what the meta in matchups tends to be. It'd be like trying to watch LoL as a DOTA player I think.
>>345060036
Oh alright. That doesn't really make sense but region locking tournaments is silly to begin with so the explanation is sound.
>>345059865
I don't buy that. I used to love playing the game because it was competitive. I avoided MOBAs for years because I enjoyed playing a competitive game where I was responsible for everything. If I lost, that was on me. Playing DOTA now, it seems like every couple of games there's just one that is unwinnable due to the actions of random teammates.
>>345060225
Games based off teamwork are so strange. Theoretically it shouldn't be hard to work together as a team, or even communicate basic information. People can go "Enemy coming in from the right" just fine with their friends but when you're with strangers it's like you treat them as some kind of AI party members in your single player game. I never really understood why teamwork with randoms has to be so difficult.
>>345060049
foreign terrans are still weaker so you might be out of luck. MaSa (who's born korean but grew up in canada) is probably the best one.
>>345060127
it's not a universally popular system but for just this year it's okay. plus foreigners are still allowed to complete in korea for some reason. Scarlett almost qualified for Code S this season.
>>345060036
Wait.
.. how bad are the north american tournaments then? Is it an entirely different skill level?
>>345058853
i don't know about mules and chronoboos, but larva should absolutely have had a toggle auto-cast.
>>345060496
enough Europeans come to them to make them okay. it's still a step below the korean ones though.
>>345060225
I have similar feelings about Rocket League. Most matches, I feel like everything I do matters and I need to do my best. But sometimes, even at the mid level (challenger) you get paired with a guy or guys that miss easy saves or blunder easy shots or never pass. And you get your boipussy pounded.
The positive side of it is matches are only 5 minutes (plus overtime if applicable which will never realistically last more than an additional 5 minutes) so a bad match is over as quick as a good match.
>>345059862
Overwatch is designed to be family friendly, easy to play, and easy to watch. Competitive Overwatch is like competitive mancala.
>>345060941
Which is why Quake won't draw players
It's got a big learning curve, and being good requires actually having the skills to multitask and think critically, and/or metagaming the shit out of everyone. There are also no big numbers or letters flashing up on the screen, every voice prompt is somebody complaining about something and the units all look similar. If you're a casual there are much easier ways of having fun.
>>345061102
I mean, yeah, Overwatch has probably been great for Blizzard's collective cocaine habit, but it's competitive because it's popular, not vice versa
>>345061345
Overwatch has made at least 1 billion already. It's incredibly successful
>>345050650
The game is too static. Everything is hard counters and hard strategies with solid numbers and no variables. There's no chance to hit or miss, there's no cover system, I find it boring. I like Company of Heroes, Wargame, and Men of War.
>>345061558
I'm not disagreeing with you
I can't stand Rotterdams casting.
>>345061558
>at least 1 billion
>imaginary numbers
its been hugely successful but make the lies believable
>>345059585
Those games are nothing like Quake at all. I don't mind Overwatch and I fucking loathe TF2. I thought TF2 was shit in 2007 and I still think it's shit.
>>345051769
MOBA's hold way more appeal to casual gamers. It's like an RTS with a lot less going on.
Competitive MOBA's took off. People would rather watch competitive play from a game they can actually play than one they can't.
The whole RTS genre is in a state of downturn since MOBA's cannibalize a huge segment of the market that used to play them.
SC2 still has 50K players doing their placement matches per region. So there's still a ton of people playing it, just not a lot of people watching it on twitch. My guess is people prefer to watch VOD's instead of watching GSL at 4am.
>>345062207
They're competitive games, which OW is not unless you're a casual that got lost or a huge masochist for poorly designed competitive games.
>>345054846
Bonus points existed to let players who didn't play as frequently keep up with people playing dozens of games per day.
>>345062305
Is Terran a lot harder to play right now? I'm not seeing many at DH
>>345050650
what killed SC2 no joke is nationalism.
People got tired of seeing the koreans win everything and the NA scene became just like a handful of people and even they under perform comparatively.
On top of that blizzard fucked the game up over and over again by doing what was best for a quick sales boost instead of keeping players hooked.
online MP ladder was literally inaccessible to people that weren't devoting all their time to it but it was so frustrating to learn while getting beat down that most people gave up hope and would jut finish the campaign and uninstall.
Some people achievement hunted but that was it.
Some played customs but i don't really know who would.
I've not seen a single person boot up SC2 in my bnet friends list in literally 5 months.
>>345062529
Dunno, haven't paid much attention to the game for a few weeks. Terran was pretty pervasive during the last GSL though. I doubt they did anything too crazy with balance since then.
>>345062305
>It's like an RTS
Cease this meme. MOBAs play nothing like RTSes
>>345062529
Terran has always been the hardest race to play
>>345062548
>what killed SC2 no joke is nationalism.
I was going to laugh at you but then i realized how true this is
>>345062820
>>345050650
I'll be honest and I was a casual of SC2 but it was the game to get me into pc gaming where I built a new pc for it (before that the last pc game I played was red alert 2).
I never heard of it, it looked like a mash between halo with red alert 2 with southern pride, and I liked that. Cutscenes looked cool, still entranced in futuristic confederacy, it felt like cool new red alert 2 with actual choices and a fucking Odin (like a grand canon and german tank mashed into one glorious norse god).
Looking back the story sucked, but gameplay was still fun, and cinematics still cool as hell. Then HoTS came out, story sucked even more but the evolve system intrigued me, but wish they altered it somehow for the terrans. Never touched LoTV.
>>345050993
Starcraft II started off well but faltered after some bad decisions
WoD was shit, same with everything after WotLK
Diablo 3 was awful
Overwatch biggest problem is that the price tag didn't keep out the garbage communities such as Mobashitters and CoDbabbies, and Blizzard has to listen to them because they are the only ones who bother using the forums and complain about Torbjorn
>>345062770
That's like saying Thief plays nothing like an FPS. Yes, they are very different styles of game but that doesn't mean they don't have a ton of similarities.
MOBA's appeal to casual RTS players for a myriad of reasons. The simplest way of putting it is it's an RTS where you only have to control one dude and you have a team to blame when you lose.
>>345062942
SC2 made them a buttload of money
WoD made them a buttload of money, same with every WoW expansion
Diablo 3 made them (get ready for it) a BUTTLOAD OF MONEY.
These games were even critically successful even if lots of us hated how they turned out.
Evaluate the difference between success and opinions
>>345062926
I'd honestly recommend LOTV.
The campaigns are always great for their mission design and the army customization. The story is dumb as shit, but that's what makes it fun.
Idra retired
>>345061702
What you are basically saying is you want more RNG in a strategy? That's fucking stupid, there is enough variability and unknowns present due to the fog of war and human players. Any "hard strategies" or "hard counters" do not exist unless the map design is shit. You have no idea what you are talking about.
#IStandWithDario
>>345061702
For the most part this. SC had counters but one marine shouldn't be able to take on a whole horde of mutas. Because of this is encourages balling and battles are over way to fast.
>>345063108
>$40
this probably caused as much damage as anything else.
>>345050650
Shitty custom games
Expansions literally added one unit to each race
Game is too fast+hard for normal humans
Most importantly, it's not FUN. There's nothing fun about bioball steamrolling an idiot or being cheesed out by some retarded build.
All of my casual as fuck friends that played this game just wanted to build big units and have big battles, but it takes thirty fucking minutes and you have to NOT DIE that whole time to get le epin army.
>>345063108
Probably, especially after I found out how to put the confederate flag in the game...i think.
>>345061702
they didn't really require that
Brood War/SC1 had % chance of hitting based on high ground (50% to miss if attacking from low to high ground), but in general Brood War was quite simple, what made the game interesting is that despite being simple in the outside, it was intricate and hard on the inside based around all the micro and strategy you could pour into it.
It's very ambivalent if Brood War was complex or simple. Many people that play games like Men of War would think of the game as simple since the in game mechanics are simple (No cover or ballistics), but the level of "perfection" that the strategies had to go through (planning and trial and error by great players) was incredible, plus the APM needed to play top-tier Starcraft was just unbelievable high.
If anything, the only strategic problem that Starcraft has is that it doesn't favor adaptation, and brute-forcing an opening is the usual, but games like Age of Empires rely a lot about how you improvise.
>>345063235
Plus battles are over in seconds so it's not even fun to watch.
>>345063150
Not him, but I always enjoyed Relic RTS because they had a little RNG.
You knew that there was a very high chance that X engagement would be bad for you, but if you got lucky your opponent might overextend and you'll come out on top once support arrives.
Learning when to play a little risky and when to play it safe was an important skill and separated scrubs from good players.
Shame that CoH2 got ruined by whiney idiots who didn't understand this concept.
Blizzard forced a huge amount of absolutely cancerous design in order to push the "competitive" angle and as a result, fell into the same traps as Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3.
Every unit had to have some retarded "unique" ability, every unit had to have an alternate mode, every unit had to have a gimmick.
As a result we got Liberators, Tank Medevacs, Disruptors and Ravagers, which were not fun to play with, not fun to play against, and not fun to watch.
Blizzard failed to differentiate between good micro and bad. Good micro is Blinkstalkers, Marines vs Banelings and tank positioning, or Lings vs Banelings. Ravager Biles are not good micro, it's just point and click MOBA horseshit. It is extremely binary with a low skill ceiling, and as a result, it's boring to watch, but so powerful that it is mandatory.
Legacy of the Void is a textbook example of how to absolutely fail at making a competitive RTS. Micromanagement is something that should develop naturally, not as a result of a button that must be pushed.
>>345063235
They actually changed the pacing a lot in LOTV, so you can get big max pop armies within 10-15 minutes now.
>>345063235
you saying the casual thing is exactly why I left. I want my Thors dammit.
>>345063449
>Shame that CoH2 got ruined by whiney idiots who didn't understand this concept.
Have you played since the OKW got the latest overhaul? They're fun as fuck. Feels like Oprah went over to them and started yelling "AND YOU GET AN STG! AND YOU GET AN STG! EVERYONE IS GETTING STG'S!"
Playing Ost is suffering, though.
>>345062895
Terran is harder than the other two races to play due to macro mechanics. If you fuck up and your army dies, you can't instantly remax with your 20 gorillion larvae or warpgates. You have to be constantly macroing, while microing your units.
Terran army comps usually require much more micro than the other races on top of that. You have to leapfrog siege tanks, split units, and deal with casting abilities on top of that. In comparision, Z or P pretty much only have to deal with casters and getting a surround,
>>345063235
It probably didn't help that so many of the campaign missions are "Build up at your own pace them steamroll" and multiplayer is "harass deny harass deny harass deny win because of a good engagement and you had 20% more"
>>345063587
There was a thor match at DH yesterday but it didn't counter the vipers well. Yoinked and focus fired by roaches while brood lords pummeled the tanks
>>345063670
>and multiplayer is "harass deny harass deny harass deny win
just play protoss then
>>345063612
I stopped playing when I saw the patch notes for that, actually.
The game was best for me back when Brits just came out. I liked the original OKW design the best. Everything they've done since with them has been horrible community ideas. The community is shit at the game and only knows how to build 4-5 squads of infantry and medium tanks.
I think I'd have fun with Ostheer in the current patch though. I was doing a lot of Brummbar builds before they did the last balance preview shit, and all they did was buff my build so it would have been even stronger.
>>345063150
>What you are basically saying is you want more RNG in a strategy?
What's wrong with it? You rush a tank and throw an AT grenade you may blow out the engine, might knock out a tread, or maybe it'll just do straight damage and not critically damage it. You won't know exactly where your artillery strike is going to hit but you know the general area when you deploy it over an enemy position and hope to god it all hits like it's supposed to. Sometimes one of your soldiers gets lucky and scores a headshot on a guy in an enemy squad and drops him dead instantly. You never know. Chaos in war is fun.
>>345063974
Then go fight a war or play yahtzee. This is a game that was designed to be competitive.
>>345063771
That's why so many noobs did
I bought SC2 but never played it. Should I play it? I liked WC3.
>>345064179
Having variables spice things up. I don't know why that's such a problem for you. Competitive games can have RNG.
>>345064501
>Competitive games can have RNG.
No they can't, fuck off.
>>345064179
A small amount of randomness increases the excitement. In real life the randomness would be weather or players not playing to their peak performance due to whatever extenuating factors. Maybe they had a bad burrito and have to shit real bad, so they make a bad shot or throw a bad pass.
>>345064528
There's no need to be upset. The ASSFAGGOT Dota 2 has lots of RNG, and that's one of the biggest e-sports out there.
>>345064664
And adding in a bunch of MOBA shit is what caused SC2 to start dying in the first place, adding more is not going to help matters is it? Even using your own example, random Headshots, would completely unbalance the matchup. Liberators randomly getting double damage on Ultralisks would legitimately make TvZ unwinnable for Zerg.
>>345064501
>>345064537
There is plenty of chance moments and seemingly random events that arise organically from having two people play each other with limited information. Blizzard should be focusing on balance that allows for more varied playstyles if they want to include more "randomness" in their encounters.
>>345064664
It's a shitty mechanic in a shitty game. MOBAs are successful because poor people are stupid and have bad taste in games.
>>345050650
Because the only game mode people continue to play is one that requires you to not suck to have fun. And most people suck dick at the game, myself included, despite being masters at one point.
They fucked up the story
They fucked up the chat rooms
They fucked up custom maps
They fucked up by not having an unranked queue
They fucked up basically everything but muh esports
LotV might have fixed some of these things, I don't know, but the only way the game could have survived is if they didn't fuck up on WoL launch.
>>345064405
yes but just stick to wings of liberty
>>345065474
Pretty much this. They had a strong esports presence but with nothing keeping that game alive for regular players LoL took over easily.
Still can't believe how bad they fucked up custom maps/lobbies
REMOVE MBS
>>345066831
nigga it ain't 2009 anymore no one cares about that
>>345067030
i care...
>>345067060
why would making the game way more difficult to play be better?
>>345067270
because apm is a resource blizzard forgot to include in game balance
>>345063136
the only good thing to come from sc2
>>345067060
>elipses
/scv/ is dead you faggot
>>345067502
you are dead
>>345067030
I cared. But yeah it's 2016 I have no fucks left to give.
>>345050650
Only half of Korea liked it
The ladder was "updated" recently but I seriously doubt blizzard still cares about sc2 enough to make any real changes which is super sad.
>>345050650
People always forget that a game to stay competitive needs to appeal to the masses. You need to draw in a huge fucking crowd.
Look at football, everyone can grab a ball and play it and think they are some kind of pro. With games like this, and its ladder system pitting you against equall or stronger oponents, it keeps hammering into you that you are shit. So the casual crowd leaves because the only one to blame are themselves. They cant even blame it on teammates.
And once the casual crowd leaves. You are left with the top 1% playerbase which is not enough to keep tournaments going, because who the fuck cares if only the people competing turn up on a tournament and the seats are empty.
>>345068186
Did they ever fix the fucking matchmaking? Last time I played seriously I was low Masters getting matched equally often with GM and Bronze players, and those Bronze players were very often as good as the GM players.
>>345051769
It's the same as Diablo 3.
It sold because it was Blizzard's IP. But the stroy sucked major ass, and no fans of the universe were drawn to it, because it sucked ASS indeed.
And the MP is excellent, but it has quirks and stupid decisions throughout the development to entice the expansions. LotV is cool and all BUT the damage was already done. No one gave a fuck about the campaign.
>>345068365
>Bronze players were very often as good as the GM players.
you wot
I'm still upset at how Blizzard scrapped a system where players distributed maps they made and instead created a single centralized system with them being in full control. Now, of course, Valve is doing the same with Dota.
how can you have the confederate flag as the decal for campaign? I don't want to use Raynor's decal.
>>345068186
Recent community summit discussion still haven't been released yet either. And the only word that came out was "they are planning to change some units" but I'm not holding my breath.
>>345068365
Ladder was recently updated and now shows your MMR as well as your opponent.
>those Bronze players were very often as good as the GM players.
Was probably someone who tanked their ranked MMR to bronzeplayed unranked up to GM MMR to fool you with their border.
>>345068585
where in that picture do you see a confederate flag
>>345068390
I'm actually playing through the HotS campaign right now because I never finished it and it's literally, without exaggeration, a slog. I'm forcing myself to play through it.
Every other mission is a shitty hero mission that you would have to be completely and utterly braindead to mess up on. Yeah they have extra objectives and all that but the missions themselves are ridiculously simple.
Like I've never had high standards for RTS campaigns but the HotS campaign isn't RTS enough. It's more like a single player MOBA experience.
>>345068440
When they changed the ladder so that you couldn't get demoted mid season it FUCKED their matchmaking and caused a cascade failure. Within a month, 50% of the playerbase, including former Masters and GM players, were in Bronze.
>>345068695
And the characters are Mary Sues in their own universe if any of that makes sense. SC1 was interesting about the betrayals and all the drama around the characters. Kerrigan in this one is a super saiyan dindu with edgelord issues. Cringe all around.
Raynor is cringe.
Zeratul is cringeworthy and dies so sad=(((
>>345068593
I have some communication with a few people at the summit and while they wouldn't give me any details they said it was a pretty massive overhaul of certain units and mechanics planned.
>>345068754
>r so that you couldn't get demoted mid season
Why on earth would they do that? What did i miss?
>>345068695
I remember a time when your hero unit died in the mission you failed it. Now they just resurrect with no repercussion. Even the Nova Covert Ops revives her when she dies.
>>345068754
>Within a month
also what
they had a serious problem with match maker and it wasn't resolved in like 3 days?
>>345068954
Because getting demoted made babbies mad.
It fucked their league distribution so hard. 60% of players were in Bronze for around 6 months and Masters was only around 0.8% of players when it's meant to be 2%.
>>345068681
huh, no I was showing of decal I didn't want, here is pic I do want.
>>345068954
Don't want to hurt people's feelings.
>>345069079
>>345050650
personally i loved Wings of Liberty, played the shit out of both SP and online
got HOTS and was very underwhelmed at the ending
had no desire whatsoever to pick up Legacy of The Void, heard there was nothing to see in it anyway and multiplayer is not so strong anymore
>>345069079
Oh wow. It actually seems to be a thing. Apparently I played through the whole game without noticing it.
>>345069064
>>345069104
fucking
WHAT?
No seriously WHAT? YOU CAN'T FAIL? THEY THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WOULD IMPROVE THINGS? YOU JUST CAN'T GET WORSE?
>>345069045
>>345069229
Matchmaking and ranking algorithms are notoriously complex. They poked it without knowing what it was, and couldn't fix it when it broke. I went from High diamond to Silver over the course of one season, and was getting matched with Silver/Bronze players who had multiple season finishes in Diamond and Masters are were playing with 250+ APM. Shit was fucking broken.
This was in Heart of the Swarm by the way, in 2014.
>>345069229
You just get demoted next season instead of the current season. It's a shitty system where they want to appeal to casuals, yet the only people that play ladder are competitive and hardcore already.
>>345069292
I remember that period. Was fucking harsh.
>>345068458
That shit is so infuriating. I though valve would learn from blizzard but they only paid half attention.
>>345069206
I know it is a very little thing, but it just helps the tone of the game for me, that and I got a good enough pc to see the damn things and want to bask in it.
>>345050650
mirrors and chink vs chink is boring to watch
>>345069493
>Like TvZ
>Like TvP
>TvT makes me want to fucking die
And that's why I play Zerg, because at least ZvZ is over quickly.
>>345069415
Based decalbro, I stand with you. Blizzard heard the clamour for more skins, voicepacks, and portraits and neglected decals as a result.
>>345069493
the chinese scene is fucking bonkers, their metagame is completely bizarre and anything but boring
well, except for pvp which i agree is horrible
I'm gonna say this right now: Starcraft 2 wasn't the first time Blizzard went full retard with the series. Not mentioning the retardation surrounding how they screwed up development of Starcraft: Ghost, their real problems began in Brood War. Yes, the gameplay was good and the new units were nice, but for all intents and purposes, the plot was beyond retarded. For some reason everyone magically becomes stupider, and Kerrigan fools everyone and now she's all powerful and she can literally defeat everyone in the galaxy, and everyone gladly turns their back towards her so they can get backstabbed in an orderly fashion. Even the age-old Zeratul forgets everything he learned and gets duped by miss mass murdering whore.
Of course, I think the worst was the bonus mission, where it's revealed that Duran, or possibly a being above Duran, is the true mastermind behind everything. And right there I can pinpoint where the game suddenly went beyond retarded and beyond redemption. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had Amon and his stupid prophecy and chosen one garbage planned out then.
>>345069613
how so?
>>345069660
Watch some games, it's like a weird hybrid of gook/whitey.
>>345069292
Huh that's funny. I wasn't great (high gold/low platinum) but I came back after warming up against cheating bots to get my ass brutally handed to me by bronzy's thinking everyone just got really good at the game in a short period of time.
>>345069641
I mean SC1 came out in March of 1998 and Brood War came out in November of the same year. They had no idea (and barely participated in) what Brood War became.
>>345069613
It's also bad, which is why they get destroyed whenever they go to non-korean tournaments. Except that one Protoss who always does weird shit and makes it work somehow, anyway. He's entertaining but pretty much never wins against opponents that just play safe, normal games and scout a lot.
>>345069716
Even if you were "low gold" you would never get matched against a bronze player in your first games.
>>345069641
proto neo blizzard
>>345069795
He would though, because he couldn't get demoted. The matchmaking broke because mid-season demotions were disabled, so while he was technically in gold, he might have had Bronze MMR.
>>345069781
If you are talking about sen you are like half a decade too late to be saying anything relevant.
>>345069795
I was playing those custom pvp maps where people spectated, ran around with critters, and gambled.
>>345069781
You talking about Has? He actually plays way more standard now and his macro game has improved a lot. He still busts out crazy cheeses sometimes though.
Anyone got the revolution overdrive songs of liberty up for download?
We can agree the jukebox had good music in it
>>345050650
I got mad at the scene after they wanted you to pay money to get 720p/1080p streams. This was for GomTV and for several leagues in Twitch.TV.
I got enough of shit quality streams watching Brood War for years.
The only thing I miss about SC2 was getting comfy and watching Boxer be Boxer
>when your girl goes super saiyan and she makes this face
>>345070350
That was the greediest fucking shit.
Is there any game that gives you the same feeling as smurfing in bronze and just doing whatever the fuck crazy build you want completely chill and still stomping the other guy?
>>345070229
Is it these? If so, you can use http://www.zezula.net/en/casc/main.html this to datamine the songs if you have SC2 installed.
anyone remember how cancerous /sc2g/ was? even before the migration to /vg/, what a cluster fuck of shitposting. so glad the community and game are dead.
>>345070942
sadly.
>>345055375
>tidings of DOOM
HEY! Hey! /sc2g/ is the REASON, the very WHY that /vg/ even exists, you ungrateful moron! clusterfuck? maybe, you are the clusterfuck my friend. a clusterfuck of New and teh GAy!
>>345070942
>what i thought it'd be
teamliquid.net late night no rules edition
>what it was
Underage homosexuals using a vg thread for their own private hang out that didn't play sc2
They fucked up the balance of all three so bad
Ladder games heavily favor all-in tactics and punishes macro based play
Late game is more deathball than every before and unit composition is irrelevant now because their whack a mole balance approach has removed hard counters.
Toss is obnoxious because protoss just all-ins and retarded pylon cannon slows the game to a crawl
Zerg are forced into essentially the same build path every game. Way too much useless shit
TvT is the most cancerous shit ever. It plays just like PvP, but 10x slower.
The story is someone's fanfiction with no oversight
Low masters before anyone asks.
>>345070942
I posted regularly in them at first and it was pure cancer
Half kpop memers and the rest was gold/plat trash that didn't even want to discuss the game.
The SC community is arguably worse than the pokemon community, but it just has so fewer people
>>345061702
lmao coh is literally just hard counters with no variables. even more so than sc2 is.
>>345058853
in the beta patch, they removed chrono, and mules, and made larva autocast. (so you could just park a queen by a hatchery and that was the end of it) and a LOT of people liked it. but the elite of the community that bask in their high apm hated it, so it didnt get put into the full game.
>>345050650
The expansions where not nearly as good as Wings of Liberty which hurt its overall popularity, and SC2 enjoyed several years of high popularity. SC1 and Brood Wars solidified themselves as a pillar of RTS in an emerging genre. That coupled with the exploading MOBA genre and shifts in how games are streamed and shared SC2 simply never had the same opportunity to become so cemented and influential and they dropped the ball as time went on.
is it time?
>>345069889
>>345070045
Yeah, Has. He's fun, glad to hear he's rounding out some though.
>>345071387
Well, I need chemo now.
>>345071387
what is this? sad mkp for ants?
>>345055375
This right here. I loved the single player in the original, along with the bizarrely unique confederates-in-space trailer park theme the Terrans had going on. SC2 toned down the Terrans, fucked up the characters, and had these lame single player missions that felt almost like WoW quests at times.
No one gave a flying fuck about ladder in the BW days and it didn't help that the game speed was capped. BW rocked because of UMS, BGH, and money maps--team games.
SCII launches and what was there for the non-tourney player? The shittiest b.net, a shitty custom games finder, and this awful-weird popularity system that made it impossible to play more than a few customs.
Oh, and then the censorship. Good luck finding Mario's Cap, Dodge the Rapist, or Dawn of the Niggers. StarCraft 2 offered nothing for this scene. 1v1 only.
most of you guys probably weren't even in high school when this thread happened
>>345071249
>>I posted regularly in them at first and it was pure cancer
>
>Half kpop memers and the rest was gold/plat trash that didn't even want to discuss the game.
>
>The SC community is arguably worse than the pokemon community, but it just has so fewer people
I remember something.
I remember going into /scv/ about 3 months back because i happened to catch a GSL match. I made a prediction about 6 minutes in on who would win. I had not played since WoL.
/scv/ told me how wrong I was and talked a bunch of shit and then exactly what I said would happen, happened.
I stopped playing at high diamond and hadn't played in 4 years. I could still watch and predict a match better than they could and this was their general.
At that moment I knew for certain that no one there played above a gold level and most of them didn't play regularly.
>>345072135
>high diamond
>>345072251
Sorry I grew up and can't spend my entire life laddering senpai
>>345072135
I had a very vocal tripfag challenge me to a 1v1 years ago and he was diamond, but played like a silver/gold player. He got so ass blasted that he didn't even play the second game in our best of three and told the general I was map hacking
Everyone in that general needs to be ip range banned from this site
>>345071819
My fav part of BW was 8-Players Big Game Hunters Free For All, where anything went, alliances would happen, backstabs were prominent and it was just a clusterfuck of fun.
Then FFA was put into SC2 ladder and just became the most boring unfun thing ever. No sparked alliances. No Backstabs. No bad spawns/good spawns. No -FUN-
That for me was the telling sign that SC2 was gonna be shit, and it was.
What was even worse was the custom maps were so limited and they had that most played system back when it launched, which meant any game past the first 10 were never played. They fixed this since, but people have moved on.
>>345072251
mfw everyone on the internet says they're a low high master when they have some kind of real dank opinion to share
mfw they're always plat
>>345072491
>retarded tripfag called you out and absolutely humiliated you during the callout meme of 2014 in front of everyone
>u still mad
>BANNU EBRY1!!!!!!1
>tfw no alive competitive 1x1 online videogame in 2016
what the fuck is this shit
>>345072774
Reasons we can't have nice things:
>Muh Ladder Anxiety
>>345071194
You meant to say /lolg/, right?
>>345072883
sure, whatever you like
idiot
>>345072675
I won the first in like 9 and he wouldn't even play the second
You must be him
Stay mad shitter
>>345070942
>tfw was a faux avatarfag that always tried to discuss strategy and breakdowns of games
>was forever bronze until I started frequenting the general, before it was utter shitposting
>say it transform to kshit and homolust
I'll never forgive them
Reminder that Brood War is still clinging to life. The first matches of the ro16 will happen on Sunday.
>>345072675
He's not wrong. The only 4chan communities that have high level players are ones that have games without e celebs.
As soon as e celebrity or watching the game becomes as important as playing it, underage and losers flock to it and make it their outpost for degeneracy. Instead of practicing or gitting gud they shitpost. All day. Every day. Then the few good players go elsewhere because why the fuck would you hang in a place that barely talks about the game and is focused on tertiary things like kpop?
Really why? No one wants to stay there and read shitposts. I recall counting the on topic posts that night I was making predictions on matches and getting called out then proven right. Excluding me and people that responded to me there were about 13 on topic posts and 500+ about kpop or just random ass shitposting about insular meems.
/scv/ and to a lesser extent dota general are absolutely worth purging everyone that posts there. They are everything bad about 4chan in one place.
>>345073080
It's really hard to keep up with it. I'll have to literally mark the calendar on my computer.
>>345073169
most of /scv/ is diamond and higher and at one point it occupied more than 4% of gm (the top 200 players in the entire world) so I'm not sure why you are so misinformed or maybe you are just lying really, really hard
>>345073360
>and at one point it occupied more than 4% of gm (the top 200 players in the entire world)
That's literally 8 people.
>>345073460
stop confirming how young you are
>>345073460
8 in the top 200 out of millions.
Yeah that's pretty horrible.
>>345050650
>turn a sequel into a sequel trilogy
>"we promise we aren't milking this"
>they milk it for years
I'm sure this had nothing to do with it though
>>345073603
>millions
:>
>>345073360
>you are so misinformed
>proceeds to just pull random ass unsupported statements about players in a general
alright anon. you win. how can I defeat a man like you that can conjure facts.
shame that all these "diamonds and grand masters" don't know how the fuck the game is played and spend all their time posting korean idols.
>>345073952
if you can't name 8+ veegees that were GM find your nearest and most convenient bridge to jump off of
>>345074040
>If you don't obsessively follow avatarfags in a general in /vg/ you should kill yourself
Evaluate your life.
>>345074175
you wouldn't have even started the argument in the first place if you were so grand but suddenly you are losing and looking at how sad and wrong you are look at your sad and wrong post you've made
I never even got in to sc2 because I didn't like the art direction from the outset and then they told me I was going to need to buy the game three times without any indication of when I would be allowed to purchase the additional two thirds of the game and I decided I didn't care enough to be taken on this ride when I knew it wasn't going to live up to everyone's expectations of it anyway.
>>345074289
Anon I made a thread about why sc2 has fallen in popularity and then /scv/ showed up to start talking about /scv/.
No one fuckin cares about the arguably worst general on /vg/ and its merry band of retards that collect there.
>>345074452
nice revisionist history I'm sure /pol/ would just love to have you
>>345074495
Anon this is why no one talks to you. And I'm done too.
>>345074551
then I guess this is the last word lol
>>345068365
How is that bad match making?
You getting matched with bronze players that are as good as GM players, and also getting matched with GM players clearly means the bronzies are playing on their skill level.
They're probably only bronze because they're shit and getting boosted.
>>345050650
its just a shit game that doesn't hold a candle to brood war.
Killing the korean scene was a gigantic mistake.
the story was utter shit. which wouldn't be a huge deal since most of the missions are pretty fun to play, but it gets boring to play the same race for 30 missions in a row. it also doesn't help that the zerg expansion was easy as shit and the protoss expansion was ridiculously overhard.
and then multiplayer. it's been mentioned this thread but the macro mechanics are fucking dumb. there's no depth to it. you either do your larva/mule/chrono every minute or you're at a disadvantage. there's no interesting choices to make. you just have to click some bullshit or you're fucked.
overall they tried to force balance with counters and 1 use units and it's boring as shit.
>>345074937
It was bad matchmaking because those people had been DEMOTED to bronze.
When they disabled mid-season demotions, it caused a cascade effect from GM. GM players could not get demoted, therefore Masters players who should have been in GM couldn't get promoted. Which led to Masters being equally full of people who should have been GM and people who should have been Diamond.
Then Diamond players got matched with Masters players who should have been GM and lost. So their MMR dropped, and come the next season, they were demoted to Platinum (while being good enough for Masters).
Then gold players got Matched with Platinum players who should have been Masters, then got demoted the next season. And so on, and so on. This went on for 3 seasons, at one point 65% of the player base was in Bronze because the matchmaking was so fucked.
>It may not be tomorrow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you.
>Wah wah wah I lub you kerrigan I'll protekt you from the bad alirens
Literally this.
>>345075767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntR2g8L6y7Y
david kim should be unemployed forever and his salary retroactively recalled
short answer:
>SC1: "You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare."
>SC2: "I BRING TIDINGS OF DOOOOOOM"
>>345050879
I'd say it's this. Games like SCBW and DotA are outliers. Most other games lose viewership/playerbase organically simply because people get tired of them.
>>345076907
NEVER, try to group DoTA with BW EVER again you filth
>>345077583
Dotas been around for like what, 8-9 years now?
>>345077583
Calm your tits anon. I'm not trying to say they're similar or as good. Just saying they are both games that have had staying power that hasn't been seen from 99% of other games, which is the topic of this thread.
>>345076325
>Uhhh well Zerg has no counter to Liberators because Zerg has no offensive AA
>So we're giving Queens 1 extra AA range, that will work!
>>345077834
>watching dream hack and seeing terrans get turfed using strats that were previously very challenging to counter now get exposed
>>345077820
and you do it again
embarrassing
The fact that it had extremely broken builds right out the gate that seemed to either get more broken or simply replaced by another broken cookie cutter build really fucked the game. I'd say that was what really did it in, regardless of other retarded decisions (there were plenty). You just cannot have a thriving RTS that takes Korean level APM and attention to detail while also having ass-backwards macro builds. It makes the game a click-a-thon and not even general RTS fans are going to put up with it.
I wasn't interesting to see a deathball of stalkers, immortals and colossus attack moving across the map
>>345050650
its killed by APM/inhuman competition with young gooks
its impossible to win for normies no matter how balanced the game was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q
>>345078374
I don't think it's possible to have an RTS game without a few cookie cutter builds surfacing after people learn to play it.
>>345050650
>no lan
>online only
>no fun allowed
>dumb ass story
>dota clones infected the genre
*ladders*
>>345078296
the Problem is it nerfed everything EXCEPT those builds even hard than those builds. When was the last time you saw cloaked banshees in TvZ actually do anything?
>>345070883
I think I clicked that twice in my life.
>>345078512
But you don't have to play against gooks. On ladder you should get opponents around your skill level.
I think the game just lacked some fun things for people who don't ladder such as custom games and a powerful easy-to-use editor.
>>345069641
>For some reason everyone magically becomes stupider, and Kerrigan fools everyone and now she's all powerful and she can literally defeat everyone in the galaxy
I think that Kerrigan was literally using her magic (or psy or whatever) to make people trust her and make people more stupid.
The plot of the original starcraft wasn't much to write home about either.
>>345078902
I think the only positive thing I have to say is at least the ladder was an adequate match maker that usually put you against a person that was roughly in your neighborhood.
>>345050838
Absoloutely wrong.
The units are way more interesting now than they ever were.
The metas are a lot more dynamic now as well. However Protoss sucks fucking ass fuck them.
>>345050650
The reason SC2 failed was because they failed to push the game.
When the game launched the legacy kept its popularity up but through the years the game just fell from grace because the gameplay wasn't as good as it should have been.
Right now in legacy of the void the gameplay is the best it has ever been in sc2 but its kind of too late.
>>345081698
This is literally David Kim.
>>345081698
>The metas are a lot more dynamic now as well.
Compared to SC2 WoL or HotS yes. Compared to BW or WC3? No.
>>345054979
I agree with this guy. Lol and HotS are shit though, DotA is the real gem that is stealing the SC fanbase.
>>345050650
I think it's good this way since Blizzard killed all RTS and Nu-Starcraft flopped hard.
>>345081698
LotV is fucking shit, it's legitimately worse than 3 hour Swarm Host turtlefests of HotS. Liberators are horseshit, Disruptors are horseshit, Ravagers are horseshit, LotV didn't actually improve anything about the game beyond cutting out 2-3 minutes of dead time.
>The metas are a lot more dynamic now as well.
Maybe if you're Protoss. If you're Zerg or Terran you do the exact same thing every fucking game because 2/3 of your tech is just downright non-viable.
>>345081772
>Compared to BW or WC3?
>No.
T has always been too overpowered and Blizzard failed to nerf them correctly.
>>345078315
>>345077583
Why are you upset about people pointing out similarities between the situation around BW and Dota?
GSL is live if any of you poseurs even care
>>345081974
Terran was perfectly fine at the start of HotS after the first Widow Mine nerf. Then Blizzard nerfed them again because ???
I mean, they even said in the post where they announced the nerf that the nerf was not because of balance, but because of Blizzard wanting to "change the metagame".
Take HotS and replace Swarm Hosts with Lurkers, and apply the Collosus nerf from LotV and it would have been very well balanced.
>>345081728
Dave Kim?!
Like off of from the Goldbergs?
