Wow...what a piece of shit
>>344808159
I told you it was bad.
Lemme get this straight.
He prevented the world's only means of creating a vaccine against the virus?
>>344808921
it's not like it was promised.
and how can the vaccine be mass produced to even make a difference?
>>344808921
There is no such thing as a vaccine for a fungus, which is what causes zombification in this game's setting.
You can create fungicides that the body can tolerate but that's about it. It's why black mold is so fucking deadly.
>>344808159
Troy Baker's excellent performance was wasted on that game.
It was like Walking Dead only somehow dumber.
>>344809384
It wouldn't be an actual vaccine. What it WOULD be is a benign strain of the fungus that, being already situated in the brainstem, blocks the hostile strain's attempts to infect the host.
Could we just have chose to not save Ellie? And let the doctors kill you and just assume that they find the cure?
So how did the fireflies imagine it going down even if they did successfully create a cure?
>Try to bargain with Gov
>Gov just raids their shit
>If they get the cure then happy days
>If not then they just maintain the status quo but don't have to deal with the firecucks anymore
At least the multiplayer was decent
>>344809847
Against his character. Joel wouldn't let the world take another daughter from him.
>>344809510
you know how The Walking Dead zombies came to be?
Military aliens crashed into earth and somehow affected humans
>>344810078
Cliche: The Game
>>344810245
>proveit
I... I liked it.
>>344809872
What gave you the impression the fireflys had any idea what they were dong?
>>344809847
I stood in the Doctors room doing nothing but they just just stood there in fear.
Then I decided to hit them and Joel was brutal.
To be fair though, I don't think choice was ever advertised to be in the game.
>>344810356
What the h**k are you talking about? The ending to TLOU is constantly praised for being non-cliche. Cliche would be him sacrificing himself or the girl for the vaccine.
>>344810356
You're not wrong, but I'd call it Contrivance: The Game
>>344810872
>h**k
Bait aside, the hospital section wasn't all that cliche. You could easily call it, yeah, but I'm having difficulty trying to think of a setting where the heroic anti-military rebel group is both evil and incompetent.
>its another /v/ tries to be edgy and pretends what joel did wasn't right episode
>>344811362
Would you do what he did?
>>344808159
It's not THAT bad. I really enjoyed it but after a couple play through I can't play it again. The infected a.i is too inconsistent in regards to how they react to Joel stealthing around and the human a.i is just retarded. Joeland, Bill, and Ellie were good. Tess was okay. The cannibal leader was a nice antagonist. Everyone else was either shit or forgettable. Selling a difficulty mode as DLC was shit. The actual prequel DLC was shit. I personally did not like the multiplayer.
Very overrated but not terrible.
>>344808921
It was a Hail Mary anyway. If you listen to the doctor's audio note it's basically "She has the ppm count of a click but it hasn't progressed to her brain because ???????wizards????????" without even a clue as to what it could be.
Even on the off chance an autopsy could reveal what her X factor is, which is unlikely, it wouldn't be something they could give to other people.
>>344809847
It's not an RPG. You can't make moral choices for Joel. You do not have the freedom to make him a good person.
>>344811362
>being selfish is good
The right thing would have been for Joel and Marlene to tell Ellie the truth and let her decide whether to go through with it.
>>344812574
Yes you do
>Walk in the room and see Ellie
>Walk out
>Get shot
>You die
>No one left to save Ellie
>Ending is open ended
>You choose to make it not shit
>>344808921
If you grab enough of the background lore, they never had a reasonable attempt at any form of cure or vaccine
The whole thing is bookends: They killed his daughter to try to prevent the fungus from spreading, and now they were going to kill her to attempt to bring things back.
Neither technique was effective, or marginally expected to be effective. The world has changed and the human race is adapting for it. They've simply been carelessly destroying the next generations of humanity in a vain, egotistical attempt to return to the world they knew.
It probably was a lot harder to stop after they failed the first time: You have to justify the things you do, and it's very hard to justify the things you did in the pursuit of failure.
>>344812713
It's rather easy to convince a child that their sacrifice is for the greater good. It's a lot harder to convince one that their sacrifice would be in vain.
>>344808159
>seriously implying four people in white coats using a shitted out, run off fumes Uni lab could have ever created a vaccine or inhibitor
You're a fucking retard. The Fireflys had no way of producing that vaccine, and if you paid attention and read the fucking notes / listed to the audio recordings you would have resized they were full of shit.
>>344813191
Pure speculation
>>344808921
I really liked that about his character. Too many protagonists do the noble, self-sacrificing thing. By the end of the story, Joel had murdered a lot of normal people, many of them with his bare hands. He'd tortured people slowly. And when the time came to sacrifice his surrogate daughter to save the world, he picked her life over humanity. It's selfish, it's shortsighted, but it's damned fine character writing.
>>344812713
Marlene was a retard and the fireflies ere incompetent. Joel did the right thing.
Logically, at that point in time, a vaccine wouldn't help much anyway . Things are far too gone for a "cure" to do any good.
Plus, the fireflies are not egalitarian. They do not do good for goodness sake. They hate the military and the zones that they control. They would either not give them the vaccine or would use it as leverage against them and all the people living under their watch.
>>344813630
based joel
loved this fucking scene
>>344813405
>He didn't listen to, and read, all the artifacts
You can't make a vaccine for a vaccine spore, and the fireflies had the best doctors in the world prior to the complete collapse of society and they still couldn't figure out how to combat the virus. Some faggot sub-30 year old "scientist" who was born after the collapse of society is supposed to have the knowledge of how to make a vaccine from Ellie's brain when they can't even do it with dozens of other infected?
He isn't speculating, you just don't know how to read between lines.
>>344813989
Those recordings were totally cliche and written by Naughty dog plebs who don't know anything about medicine
>>344814154
So how does that disprove the fact that you can't make a vaccine for a fungal infection, and how does that disprove the fact that the Fireflies obviously didn't have the resources to distribute one even if it could exist?
>>344814154
So where were their facilities?
Do you have any idea how much infrastructure goes into modern medicine?
They don't even have the mechanisms to make pills for god's sake.
>people trying to change the profound meaning of Joel's choice in rejecting humanity to keep Ellie safe by somehow validating it as the right choice
>"s-she would'nt have cured anything anyhow"
It's like you retards can't into character development.
>>344812713
Being selfish IS good.
Evolution 101 my friend.
>>344812713
That's a helluva thing to put on a child.
>kill yourself or you damned humanity
>>344815024
What you just said is dumb
>>344814616
>profound meaning
lol
You don't have any idea what the "right" choice is all about faggot.
Haven't you ever heard the saying "might makes right, and I FEEL mighty"
>>344815219
I like how you also listed the reasons why too.
>>344815306
I was hoping you'd just read it and realise but okay.
You're thinking of survival. Being selfish is good for survival.
Being selfish is terrible for evolution. To use your own term, evolution 101 should be mass mating and collective learning; The opposite of being selfish.
>>344815223
The "right choice" referred to trying to rationalize his selfish decision as the one that would've worked out for the best anyhow, you stupid smegma breathed faggot.
The point is that regardless of whether you the player believe that the Fireflys legitimately could've cured it with Ellie's death, Joel was in no position to know that. Nothing in any conversation from him indicates that he doubted that they could've done it. No, he chose Ellie believing he might be damning the world with the choice.
From a storytelling perspective, that's a great move. It turned the expectations around and reaffirmed that Joel, while the protagonist, isn't terribly noble.
Trying to reframe the situation though just cheapens the entire scene and the gravitas of his decision.
>>344815616
>Being selfish is terrible for evolution
You don't understand what evolution is. Evolution is survival of the fittest. ie. the most selfish being the most fittest. ie. not sharing your might with everybody who you first meet at an equal rate with people who you care about the most
>mass mating
lol, because all the mice and other rodents are more evolved than humans?
>I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain anything
Well THAT was fucking dumb.
>>344814472
This just goes to show how poorly written certain aspects of this game are.
Hell, there are other inconsistencies in the game too, though these ones are smaller but still irked me when I played the game
>Joel, Tess, and Ellie reach the sewers right near the Capital Building
>Joel finds. Firefly corpse with a note on it, Tess wonders if they're the guys they're looking for
>The note specifically describes that they're looking for a woman that fits Ellie'sexact description
>"Nope, not our guys"
Even if they weren't ape specific group from outside the zone that they were looking for, they still had knowledge of Your and that she was to be picked up somewhere by them. Joel and Tess shouldn't really be able to make the distinction, since all Marlene told them was that they were to drop Ellie off at the building and leave. She never mentioned who specifically would pick her up and where they came from.
>>344814616
t. Retard with no semblance of critical thinking skills.
>>344815882
>that would've worked out for the best
>durr, the right choice is the best one hurp
You are a RETARD.
>it could've
And it might not have. While there was a 100% chance of Ellie dying.
>>344815882
>It turned the expectations around and reaffirmed that Joel, while the protagonist, isn't terribly noble.
But that was established way earlier than the climax. Hell, that was even established during the prologue.
>>344810245
Isn't that what the comic author's original pitch was, which turned out to be BS just so he could get it printed?
>>344816278
I'll be honest with you, flooding your post with greentext, out of context remarks, faggot talk and no real content... I don't even know what you're trying to convey here. Use your big boy words and type out an actual response instead of this garbled /r9k/ pisspants gibberish.
>>344808921
It's a lot less morally grey when you actually think about it.
I mean you have to ask the question of why they needed to /immediately/ kill her? They have someone who's immune, and their first thought is to tear it open without doing any sort of proper study first?
>>344815616
>You're thinking of survival. Being selfish is good for survival
How is Survival not directly tied to Evolution? If something doesn't survive it can't evolve.
>>344816625
Because the scientists are retarded. If they were smart they probably could have made that vaccine with a regular clicker corpse or something.
The Last of Us sequel when?
>>344816515
I give you the response you are worth. If you still can't parse my meaning from the one sentence that matters (it's the one with caps), then there is no helping you. Not that I really want to, if it's not obvious enough.
>>344816316
Right. But the expectation is that there'd be growth. That this, as the climax of the hero's journey is when Joel makes the greatest sacrifice and lets go of the only anchor he has left to his humanity.
But he doesn't. As a storywriter, that's not the easy way out. It would've been far easier and more palatable for them to have made the sacrifice and ended with some bittersweet note of hope for the future.
Instead we have Ellie questioning Joel who selfishly lies to her face. Her troubled expression as she quietly accepts it.
That's fine writing. Pic related.
>>344816776
Exactly,
You spend the entire game seeing how incompetent these people were, and now they're bringing completely rash by trying to kill the golden goose.
If you only look at things on the surface, it's kind of grey. "Oh, he's making a selfish choice over the good of humanity", but in reality, he was just saving a kid from a bunch of bumbling morons.
>>344816826
Then don't. I'm not going to beg you to carry on a conversation like a coherent adult. If not wanting to be understood is a hurdle you care to pass, by all means, keep autistically flooding the thread.
>>344816070
Evolution refers to a whole species. You don't evolve faster than other humans when you don't share your knowledge or "might." It's the fittest species that survives and through mating and collective learning it passes on genes and knowledge which ensures the species evolves to better survive in its environment.
You tried to critique mass mating without bringing in my other dependent point. Rats aren't more or less evolved than humans. That's not how it works.
You also misquoted me.
>>344816639
By survival there I'm referring to that one human or their crew, not the whole species. Evolution would be very difficult in the Last of Us' universe.
>>344816625
This was the flaw with the plot. Them rushing to kill Ellie seemed more writer's means to deliver the heavy ending.
>>344817019
Na, I think the writers intended for us to assume that Joel just doomed humanity because of his paternal instinct.
>>344816793
With Neil Druckmann helming the project without Any to keep him under control? Hopefully never, but it will obviously happen. I'm not buying it, I'm done with Naughty Dog.
>>344808921
Fuck the world. I rather have a cute daughtfu
>>344817019
That's not a reality Joel is aware of though. You, as the viewer have determined they're incompetent. But Joel and Ellie? They've crossed half the damn wasteland on their firm belief in the Fireflies and their scientific ability. Joel's decision was made out of selfishness, not because he doubted them.
>>344813630
>being an edgelord is good writing now
Okay dude
>>344817182
Amy**
>>344817041
>If not wanting to be understood
Different calibers of people are able to gain different calibers of meaning. Weaker and more pathetic ones, understand less, for example. The posts I make are not for you.
>>344817278
Not forcing a happy ending is not the same thing as being an edgelord, you underaged penis wrinkle. Someday you'll grow up and discover that some endings that lack a strong resolution or some upbeat message to leave feeling good on aren't diminished in quality because of it.
>>344817239
Ellie? Sure. Joel? No. Joel would have the knowledge because he interacts with them regularly and reads the artifacts left by them. If the player knows, Joel should know. He isn't stupid.
>>344817082
>Evolution refers to a whole species.
You really aren't aware of how evolution works do you?
>rats aren't more or less evolved than humans
lol
>>344817437
joel killed the world. he's evil.
>>344817239
He's seen several times at this point that they've proven ineffective and incompetent.
Remember the fucking shit with the monkeys?
Then, when it's time for hand Ellie off to the Fireflies, he's told they're gonna straight up kill her like there's some sort of immediate ticking clock without any other choice. They're rash idiot.
>>344817532
The world was already dead.
You're doing that thing that idiots do, it's like people who criticize the past with modern lens. It doesn't work properly.
I understand him.
>>344817376
>>344817465
>You really aren't aware of how evolution works do you?
Apparently you aren't aware of how evolution or English works.
>lol
I see no point in continuing this debate.
Was Joel really a bad person if he saved Ellie from a bunch of pseudo scientists?
>>344808921
No. You cannot vaccinate a fungus.
>>344817956
With all the information at hand, and the situation he was placed in, no.
There's potential for him to come off as bad, if the scientists were well informed, had proven tests that killing her was the only solution, and that it could save humanity and change the world as a whole, but that's far from the reality presented in the game.
>mfw ND Thinks that Uncharted 4 is the best game they ever made
>It isn't even better than Jak 1-3
>Hell, it isn't even better than their overrated, but pretty good, apocalypse simulator
What the fuck is wrong with those guys?
>>344817786
A whole species doesn't evolve, retard. Only one animal brings that about from the beginning, just like Joel will by saving ellie and his friends and damning the rest of the "human" race, who can't even defend themselves against a bunch of retarded mongoloid zombies, to death.
This isn't a debate, you retard. You don't see a point because I've been fucking laughing at you the whole time since you have no clue about anything.
Joel has spent like 30 years witnessing the absolute worst that humanity has to offer. Even partaking in some of that himself. Then he finds Ellie and she's decidedly more human than anyone he's met in fucking decades. And you expect him to sacrifice her to save the people who he's watched rape and torture and murder and cannibalise for decades on end? Come on now.
Daily reminder that the Fireflies are terrorists and only the United States Armed Forces can restore order in this God-forsaken hellhole.
Reminder that after all that they went through, the fireflies didn't even give Joel the guns he was promised
He did nothing wrong
>>344818183
>It isn't even better than Jak 1-3
I beg to differ.
>>344813630
>>344808159
This is what made the game stick out for me.
Joel goes throught the whole game being a selfish bastard, with the story suggesting he would make some sort of sacrifice to redeem himself at the end. Like losing Ellie to save the world or dying to save Ellie.
But when the time comes he says it is fucking to the whole planet instead. Simultaneously the last thing you'd expect but completely consistent with his every action to this point.
The characters learnt nothing and they change nothing. The whole journey ultimately resulted in nothing. It was fucking brilliant.
>>344818457
Holy shit you're right. A year passes throughout the duration of the game and by the time I reached the hospital, I'd completely forgotten the terms of the deal to begin with.
>DLC
>In the arcade
>Ellie pretends to play the racing game
>Talks about how bad a racing combat game would be
>Trophy Unlocked: "We all make mistakes"
>tfw you really liked Jak X
>>344818282
I have already given up trying to reason with you. Posts like this really don't help your case either.
>>344818546
You don't actually think that, do you? You must be joking.
>>344818550
>they change nothing
Joel finds a surrogate daughter.
>>344818648
That's because your pathetic attempts to "reason" have all been batted down and negated and you can't see that at all.
>Making a sequel
FUCKING DUMB
The ending was fine as is. We shouldn't even see Ellie's face ever again.
Sequelitis is stupid.
>But duh brand
Fuck you. Not every story needs to be dragged out.
>>344818550
>The characters learnt nothing and they change nothing. The whole journey ultimately resulted in nothing. It was fucking brilliant.
This is what I liked about the very, very end that everyone else seemed to hate. Ellie asking for the truth and Joel lying straight to her face and her just accepting it, even though you can tell that she knows he's lying. That got me. Really enjoyed that.
It was like a subtle, hidden way of her asking him if he loves her and he said yes.
>>344818653
Uncharted is way better than the Jak games. You can stop being contrarian any day now.
>>344818802
What if it was a sequel focusing on a different cast of characters but in the same world?
>>344818653
Not joking at all. The characters and story of the Jak games are better, but the actual games themselves, the way you can play the games, is vastly inferior to uncharted 4's game segments.
>>344818457
Worse, him not being outright killed was considered a "gift".
Cunts.
>>344818770
Not him, but it's more because you're a retard who genuinely believes that someone infected with a noncontagious strain of a disease is "the next step in evolution" and that solitary groups of violently antisocial humans are more evolutionarily fit than larger groups of social and cooperative humans.
>>344818282
Where do you think the infect will be in another 20 years? We saw bloaters, what could be next?
>>344818605
Yeah I don't get that. Especially since Crash Team Racing was good too.
>>344818770
They haven't.
Saying "lol" and calling me a retard over and over isn't an argument. Nor do they negate what I said.
Everything else you said were just parroted phrases without any context. You seem to just have a misconception of what evolution actually is and are very arrogant about it.
>>344819042
>believes that someone infected with a noncontagious strain of a disease is "the next step in evolution"
Maybe you should fucking keep up with the responses then faggot, and learn what people are talking about before you jump to your dumb little conclusions.
>>344818941
But the Jak games have more, and better, gameplay than Uncharted 4.
>Uncharted 4
>Game segments
Like walking in a straight line, climbing in a straight line, and watching scripted events and cutscenes all day? Fucking Kek.
>>344818605
Was Jak X not well received or something?
>>344817278
>protecting a child who you deeply care about, is being an edgelord now
The edgy thing would be to let her get sacrificed.
>>344819042
>that solitary groups of violently antisocial humans are more evolutionarily fit than larger groups of social and cooperative humans
Well maybe not any solitary "antisocial" humans, but for a fact Joel clearly was.
It's like saying that one life form can't be more evolved than another when the other is working together, but an ant colony are like a hivemind and yet they can't even stop a single human from pouring molten iron into their entire home.
>>344819370
Well you haven't played the games then, go figure.
Dunno why you're trying to argue otherwise at all when you aren't going to get anywhere with the crippling lack of experience you have.
>>344818938
The thing the made the Last of Us(story) special was Joel and his relationship with Ellie.The zombie apocalypse we've seen over and over again was just a backdrop.
>>344819387
http://www.metacritic.com/company/naughty-dog
It's their lowest rated game on metacritic, but it doesn't have outright bad reviews.
>>344819613
>Y-you just haven't played it
Nice argument, retard.
>>344820087
>tfw they changed the cover art for the collection
>>344820197
What was it originally?
>>344820279
no that is the original
heres the new one
>>344808921
>brother sets up a stable community with water and even electricity
>hur dur just kill the kill for a chance at saving a bunch of niggers that have been trying to kill and rape you all game
Fucking moralfaggots.
