What does /v/ think of the recent speed buff to spy?
it was a super strange buff
but i guess it makes sense considering spy isn't very strong against competent players
>>344629929
This is why I'm fine with it. I forgot that they changed it while playing but I rarely play Spy anyway.
It's incredibly annoying while playing as Pyro
>>344629929
I thought it made more sense from a build standpoint. The spy has the slimmest build other than the scout, and is carrying basically no equipment.
>>344629828
>Play Spy
>Get in enemy base cloaked
>Some Pyro goes around puffing randomly and manages to hit you
>>344629828
>run directly behind someone
>they never stop running and you can't backstab them
that's why
>>344630771
unless they're a scout or medic and you both have to run in a complete straight line and never deviate even slightly, you can catch them
>>344630771
If you're stuck running behind someone for any length of time above 4 seconds, it's because you insist on squatting next to their spawn rather than getting picks on the front line, so it's your own fault.
>>344630674
this makes it even worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdNm1b2-E2w
>DR speed now makes him move faster than a Kenyan running out of his children's lives
Shit's retarded.
>>344630771
That's why you're supposed to ambush preoccupied enemies instead of making a beeline for the enemy spawn, flailing your knife at random.
>>344630674
Cloak and disguise are pretty much useless for any extended period of time if you're not fighting a sentry, because players spycheck everything.
>>344631192
>>344631051
>>344630980
>blah blah blah I'm retarded and arguing in a world pre-spy speed buffs
>>344631443
all that's changed is it's easier for caught spies to escape, nothing else
The only buff that spy players need is a hat. If you have a decent hat, you do good at spy. It's that simple.
>>344629828
>now can outrun pyro
Wew, now Pyro passed from 90% useless to full 100%, congratulations Valve
What happened?
>>344631648
>not spycicle
>>344631704
>too new to remember sets
>>344631648
shit was so good for shitting on pubs
>>344631641
Do you think the Pyro should get the rework over the heavy?
>>344631771
i think they both get it, its just a matter of who's first
>>344631771
Not that guy but yes. Heavy is, at his core, good at defending. Rev up the gun and you're half as good as any sentry. Pyro is horrible at offense, and has had to rely on gimmick combos for years now
>>344631648
It made the spy a tank.
Spys aren't supposed to be tanks.
>>344631852
I think something has to be done either about Pyro's ability to close distance or his flamethrower damage. Pyro has the same problem most flamethrowers in video games do:
>Distance is horrible so you have to close the gap before you can actually start damaging someone
>DPS is too low and enemies can shoot at you just fine while you're dancing around them
>>344631771
I voted for team pyro because he is more broken at the moment than heavy
www.frompyrowithlove.com
But I understand why heavy mains are pissed. Their class didn't got a decent update in ages.
>>344631852
>>344631852
How is pyro horrible at offense? That's like saying the sniper has to rely on the jarate Bushwaka combo because he's godawful at melee. There are tight corners an different routes everywhere on every map. Pyro can be just as good on offense as he is on defense by basically doing the same things he does on defense.
>>344632336
>I play pyro using only W+M1: the post.
Pyro is better suited for blowing the fire away, aid your engineers, protect your medic and negate incoming damage with your airblast.
You shouldn't be using his flamethrower as your main way to deal damage. And remember that a soldier can kill you with just two point blank rockets.
Play the class a little more.
>>344632336
Pyro is bad at everything offensive though, if he didn't have the airblast there would be no reason to ever use him. Ambushes are defensive, not offensive. He's much better played defensively
>>344632510
>You shouldn't be using his flamethrower as your main way to deal damage
You're retarded. Bet you're a degreaser faggot.
>>344632649
Dude, i have around 600 hours only on pyro.
Once you've played the class a bit you realize using combos and airblasting is way more effective that walking straight foward people.
Try learning how to properly airblast and use combos. It's very rewarding, and your team will thank you for exinguising them and protecting them.
Because it grossly buffs the deadringer speed, which is great because dead ringer sucks.
That and spies should have a skill that lets them relocate easilly. Invisibility is nice but movement speed is way better.
>>344632649
literally sub-100 hours opinion
l2p
>>344632649
>using the flamethrower as your main source of damage
have fun getting kited all over, dumbass
>>344632879
>>344632908
>>344632927
glorious 3k hours here
Main weapon flamethrower is actually incredibly powerful and should be used consistantly if you are within range. Shotgun should be used yes but only on those that are low enough that 160 some damage would kill them outright. Otherwise stick to flamethrower for your ambushes.
Flamethrower and uber is probably the best uber combo out there.
Don't be afraid to look like an M1+W noob. Damage is damage.
STOP PICKING PYRO IN COMP MM STOP IT JUST STOP IT
SCOUTS JUST EAT YOU UP AAAAAAA
>>344633108
>if you are within range
have fun getting kited
>stick to flamethrower for your ambushes.
ambushes are defensive, not offensive.
>flamethrower and uber is the best uber combo out there
EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS MAN
He put his worst bait at the end of his post so you had to waste your time reading it before you realized it was just bait!
>>344633108
no it's not, if you're not playing against braindead players almost every class can either get away from you or just chew you down
>>344631071
>>344630674
Look up flamethrower mojoToo late fags already did it for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3gPQuVCWo
>>344633108
>In you are within range
Even in htose situations, flarepunching is a more efective way to deal with your enemy, toosing them away and rendering them useless.
Again, a soldier is capable of blowing you away with just two rockets at close range. Most competent players will destroy you if you just go around spamming fire.
If you really have 3k hours and you still haven't realized this, dude...you haven't improved shit.
>>344633108
>glorious 3k hours here
>Still going W+M1
Wow, you are an special kind of retard.
>>344629828
I don't like that they're fucking with TF2. TF2 was fine.
>>344633108
>Flamethrower and uber is probably the best uber combo out there.
>Everyone is able to outrun you because your shitty range.
We get it. You started not-so-long ago and getting healed by your friend in a pub playing pyro was fun. But dude, don't talk about shit you don't really know.
Play the game a bit more.
>>344633418
1900 hours, here, I agree with the guy you quoted. Flamethrower and Shotgun is the best combo.
You can say that bullshit about most classes that get close to an enemy.
>Again, a soldier is capable of blowing you away with just two rockets at close range. Most players will destroy you if you just go around spamming the scattergun
Y'all faggots must not know how to strafe, move around, and not get hit, because I don't need no shitty gimmick to get kills. Just MOVE AROUND.
>>344633598
It's better now, though.
Although it needs a couple of fixes.
>>344633409
Despite the fact I can't stand his voice, this is interesting.
>>344633598
I like that they're fucking with it, I just don't like that they're doing random shit and not listening to either the competitive community or the casual community for the changes they're making.
>>344633242
>>344633709
>people honestly don't play enough to know how good uber pyros are
jesus christ thank god no one important listens to /v/.
![[angry screech].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cVd8zpJ.jpg "[angry screech].jpg")
I don't really mind the speed buff itself but combined with his other unlocks it's retarded.
>dead ringer and big earner both make him faster than a scout
>dead ringer and spycicle let him escape from every pyro
>ambassador lets him snipe from across the map
valve has completely thrown out the core fundamentals of every class because they don't know how the fuck to balance the shitty half assed content they've added to the game for the last 8 years.
please for the love of god just get some plat hl and invite 6s players onboard and let them do it, it won't be perfect but anything is better than the fucking retards handling it now..
Did you know they were planning to buff the reserve shooter this update? I'm not joking.
>>344633876
what the fuck
>>344633841
dude, you are in the wrong here. Literally everyone know the best classes to uber are the heavy or the soldier/demo, just because the fack they have the biggest damage output in the game.
ubering a pyro is promoting him to go w+m1, and as everyone fucking knows, it's probably the worst playstyle in the game.
>>344633108
>3,000 hours
>still W+M1's
holy fuck end yourself.
if you aren't using your shotgun 99% of the time you are a dogshit pyro.
>>344633841
wow uber pyro can take out a nest like literally any other class congratulations, now the entire enemy team is hitting s and negating the rest of the uber
why do people that don't play at a high level think that they have valid opinions?
>>344633598
here's the thing though
if they had never done any updating or fucking to begin with, TF2 would be about as dead as DODS or CSS by now.
The game would have had it's biggest spike in popularity happen in 2009, and then have less than 500 players by 2012
Hatconomy saved TF2 and enabled it to last as long as it is.
>>344629828
whats his speed at now? iirc the speeds were
scout
medic
everyone else
soldier, demoman (or was the demoman at base speed?)
heavy
>still no official option for hiding all the special snowflake cosmetics
>>344634091
He's as fast as Medic
>>344634098
>triggered by cosmetics
>>344633108
did you idle for 2900 of those hours?
>>344634091
The demo is faster than the solly tho.
>>344634098
there's a script you can download to hide them all. and even though you know this you probably won't even bother because deep down you don't really care enough to do it.
>>344633108
>Don't be afraid to look like an M1+W noob
>be a M1+W noob
Just wow.
>>344634091
107%
he can outrun everyone but scout.
>>344633841
>how good uber pyros are
you are easy as fuck to kite and knockback, you have below average mobility, your damage is shit, and you're incredibly weak to other pyros.
>>344633876
>valve has completely thrown out the core fundamentals of every class
This. Part of the reason why I quit the game years ago was that cosmetics and items eventually changed how each class plays and fucked up the balance like crazy.
Every time I consider going back to TF2 I remember that I have a 99% chance of playing with a bunch of assholes looking like they walked out of a circus with super special abilities that I'd never heard of. It's just enough to make me boot up Overwatch again insteadand then uninstall that game too since ranked is fucked.
>>344634202
>>344634091
Scout is 133%, Medic and Spy are 107%, Demo is 93%, Soldier is 80%, Heavy is 77%
Engi, Pyro and Sniper are 100% obviously
>>344634371
>complain about super special abilities
>'boot up Overwatch again'
>>344634282
Doesn't that script also remove stuff like Soldier's helmet?
>>344634371
Overwatch design is even more atrocious. Even if you can dress up a Tf2 class with pink cosmetics and shit, you still can recognife one from another only from it's silhouette.
Meanwhile, In Overwatch each character has atrocious proportions, and half of them are just...ugh.
Don't get me started on your gamer gurl bait or your edgy mcedge.
>solo queuers getting matched against 6 stacks in casual
jesus fuck valve why
>literally going 100:10 and blowing the enemy team the fuck out
>still lose because my team can't be assed to move out of spawn and as soon as I get near the objective I get gangbanged
>>344634686
Nigger at least people is going for the objective now.
Go suck a dick.
>>344634746
that's only true when you've got two 6 stacks playing against each other. the rest of the time it's just gibuses getting their shit pushed in. I saw a heavy TRY TO CLIMB A FUCKING LADDER 10 minutes ago. SEVERAL TIMES.
>>344634686
>KOTH is best out of 5
>get matched to koth_harvest
>enemy team spawn camps us for 3 fucking rounds
>also the server is in dubai so everyone is lagging like crazy
what were they thinking???
>>344634874
I hate harvest.
>It's 4 black box soldiers divebombing the point non stop and minis everywhere
>>344634846
>get matched with 5 braindead animals on my team
>one of them unlocks soldier milestone 1 during the match
why is there no fucking time barrier or something
Is it just me or are some maps played way more than others in matchmaking? I've played mountainlab a good 15 times now.
>>344634926
They are actually implementing the "time barrier" now.
Casual will match you with people of your same causal level once it's fixed. At least that''s the idea.
>>344635124
>casual
nigga i can't be assed to take casual seriously, i mean in 6s
>>344633841
>get airblasted
>have literally no way of defending yourself
Real talk, how many of your hours were spent on valve servers?
>>344635174
Well, they'll fix it's ranking system too, eventually.
>>344634874
Did you just have that game 2 hours ago?
If so, I was in it.
>>344635174
>playing competitive
Why? You can win any game by stacking scouts and forced 54 fov and motion blur is disgusting. Just play ESEA instead.
I never bothered with quickplay, and now casual has made me realize how many official (valve/community) maps there really are. Also never realized how bad the majority of them are.
Standin and Landfall are pretty gud though.
Also reminded me of how terrible badlands koth is.
>>344635485
>landfall
>standin
>good
surely you must be joking.
CTF in general sucks ass in TF2 and standin is always a steamroll.
>>344635565
How about kong king?
>>344635565
landfall fucking rules as a dm map
>>344635565
I like landfall
>tfw dead ringer ambassador spy is now viable in 6s
>>344635482
All that shit is getting fixed soon.
>>344635565
CTF may suck, but Turbine is still my favorite map in the game.
>>344635815
>Spy
>being ever viable in competitive
How can the Scout's VA be so based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUBeJmA9Mtg
>>344635679
mid point isn't very good and it's a pain in the ass to rollout on because of all the clutter in the skybox. Very little cover from snipers. There are only two good koth maps, coalplant and viaduct.
>>344635751
>dm
back to hightower with you
>>344635858
turbine's mid is fun but nobody ever plays the objective.
>>344635815
Spy will literally never be viable in 6s
>>344629929
Makes sense to me. Chasing after enemies that can basically run as fast as you are while hoping for a backstab is an exercise in anger management. The circumstances that cause them to stop (while NOT turning to look around) are pretty few and far between.
Aside from those fulltime trickspin spies of course.
>>344635992
>good koth map, [...] viaduct.
Objectively bad taste
>>344636026
What's wrong with spy in 6s? He can be a good choice if your sniper can't get a shot on the enemy medic or for last second backcaps.
>>344636187
>The most played map in competitive across the board
>Bad
>>344636193
At best, you'll get a single kill before getting obliterated by the enemy team.
Unless, of course, the opposite team is composed by a buch of retards. But a class that depends on the other team making mistakes will never be viable, no matter how you put it.
The sniper can do the same a spy does at range, without risking getting killed.
>>344636291
are you memeing on me or are you literally retarded
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Product_(competitive)
There's a gamemode other than Payload?
>>344636485
>Not playingKOTH, objectively the most dynamic and fun gamemode.
w e w
>>344636485
yeah it's call cp and dustbowl rules
that said pl_dustbowl when
>>344636479
yes that is viaduct, what exactly is your point here?
>>344636647
ok so you're memeing, here's your (You)
>>344629828
Useless, because you will spend you time disguised most of the time.
>>344636724
was this a joke response
like a 'what someone who is bad at the game would say' sort of thing
>>344636695
>>344636724
It is supposed to help you escape, and it's a buff to all the weapons that give the spy a speed buf.
So, yeah. It isn't as useless as you think. Don't talk about shit you don't know.
>>344636814
>proving my point
?
>>344629828
am i the only one in this thread that has played on the same server for 6+ years? 24/7 2fort. only ever done halloween maps otherwise
>>344636930
you just said viaduct was bad not 3 fucking posts ago >>344636187
>>344637016
viaduct is bad, viaduct pro is good. literally no one refers to viaduct pro as viaduct.
please stop fishing for (You)s now
>>344636992
Have you tried competitive? You'll probably realize you are shit now.
>>344637110
but i want to have fun
>>344636631
Koth is the second best game mode, but nobody ever plays the objective. It's pretty much deathmatch.
Any payload server, you're going to find 13 people on the cart and 14 people trying to stop them
>>344637080
it's the same fucking map but with a hallway on the side and worse sniper sightlines, are you seriously going to try and pretend shit like nucleus or sawmill is better?
oh I get it it's the epic "I argue semantics to pretend like I won the argument" well congrats you did it champ you got me
>>344635954
Fucking hell this guy is too much.
>>344637383
>are you seriously going to try and pretend shit like nucleus or sawmill is better?
where did i say this lol, it's fine to be wrong sometimes anon-sama, take it on the chin
Are the servers down or something?
I just want to play vidya
>>344637080
Anon, you knew full well what he meant. That whole debate was asinine as fuck.
>>344636193
It's pretty much impossible in 6s to not get busted after a single kill, even with dead ringer. Unless the team is retarded. Spy can be a good choice as a surprise action if you've trouble capping the last point .
>>344635954
>>344637434
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2UEYG9-kk
>>344637509
>talking about casual rotation
>brings up viaduct being good (lol)
product isn't in casual rotation, it's the abortion of a map that is original viaduct
>>344637605
Yeah but that single kill may be the medic or demo and if you're trapped in last that could turn the game around.
>>344637627
>>344637627
Is he autistic?
>>344636642
Someone made a mod of that concept. It was pretty fun, but not as fun as pl_2fort.
>>344638035
probably
Considering Valve has b4nny as their adviser, I wouldn't get any hopes on pyro update. Most likely future of pyro is complete devotion to support with occasional "debuff"-like offensive things.
The point is, you can't just balance this fucking game around 1v1, and trying to have a look at all possible combinations of players is plainly impossible.Combo fags are fucking cancer though, you can throw shit at me now, I don't care. I just want to burn things.
Finally, right now you can't do shit without nerfing powerhouse classes like scout, soldier and probably demo. It's like in L4D, with those three being survivers and other classes being specials. And we all know how nerfing them will make everyone and their dogs cry everywhere. I do understand that it feels bad when your class is nerfed, but come the fuck on people, it's Team Fortress, not ThreeClass Brawl.
>>344636642
There already is a payload dustbowl. It isn't so great.
>>344638035
Not only that, he's also a general cuntboy in real life.
>>344638079
>Combo fags are fucking cancer though
I'd much rather fight a combo pyro than the hordes of retards who try to hug you with the flamethrower and have insane fucking range because of their shit ping.
>>344637627
>>344638445
This. Plus pyros who m1+w should not be rewarded over someone who at least juggles a few buttons.
>>344638606
>300 ping
>goes from 5 damage to infinite fucking damage in a fraction of a second
>>344638079
but combos add some depth to the class
you either accept them and give pyro powerful combos
or you give him additional mobility to allow him to pop in and out of combat
>>344638672
Then your problem is Valve's netcode. Bitch about that instead. You can't balance the game around people who have shit pings just because bullshit can happen in between.
>>344638798
>You can't balance the game around people who have shit pings
Yes you can, you kick them.
>>344638907
I'm talking about class balance anon, not server team balance.
>>344629828
I think a lot of people put too much emphasis on the fact that you can now catch the average speed class instead of chasing them if they decide to keep moving. While this sometimes does happen when you were going for an important pick that could help your team, it's still uncommon to see it if you were going after an enemy that's causing trouble to your team, because anyone doing that will be distracted shooting your team to turn around or be moving in a straight line.
Instead, I think the immediate benefit is from being able to move faster while cloaked through the enemy lines, or getting yourself away from a backstab. After this update, I have sometimes been unable to avoid getting bumped by an enemy, yet it was still easy to avoid further detection by simply keeping moving. No longer do you feel like bumping into an enemy is certain doom, but you now stand a chance to get away through use of wit and unpredictability, since few classes can now keep up with your speed.
Being able to get yourself away from a backstab, while still pretty hard, is at least feasible now. Before, the meta of the Spy was, if the enemy team was competent, to throw away his life by getting a backstab on an important target, die, back to respawn and repeat. It's part of the reason why the Dead Ringer saw so much usage.
Also, now the Scout disguise is slightly more viable, although not by much anyway. Medic disguise is still just as difficult to fool someone with because a Medic not healing is always suspicious, and any other disguise now actively affects your speed.
In general, I think the Spy class was made much more interesting now.
>>344629828
I think it's a step in the right direction but he's still just a shitty budget version of the sniper.
>>344638976
I'm not saying nerf the class I'm just saying these people are fucking annoying. It makes no sense for a class to become MORE effective the laggier you are. High ping snipers especially. Doesn't matter how hard I juke they just see me standing still because they're playing on a fucking potato in venezuela.
>>344630674
There seriously needs to be some sort of penalty for over using the flamethrower.
>>344639243
Well, yeah. I'm just saying you can't factor these extreme cases in what damage a class should be allowed to do. You shouldn't nerf combo pyros just because a lag spike can kill you.
Unfortunately high lag players are just a reality. And no matter how good the netcode, there's still going to be cries of bullshit as long as they continue to play.
At least there are servers that autokick when pings spike too high.
>>344639413
There's already a penalty for playing Pyro, and it's called being inferior to most classes that aren't spy.
>>344639413
Checking for spies is the pyro's job, punishing him for it would be retarded.
>>344638445
>>344638672
>let's balance game around ping
Damn, you guys are infuriating, you know?
>>344638740
>depth
>puff flames, switch to axe/flare, click mouse again, all done in fractions of seconds during which, due to range, your attack will still connect.
This is really deep, I didn't knew that. Oh wait, it's fucking not. You can script this shit, how the fuck is this deep mechanic?
You memesters throw around "m1+w", calling this literally everything that is not a combo, while any class has braindead tactics to get frags easily. I bet when you spam rocket launchers it's "supressing fire", not hopeless attempt to hit at least something.
>>344639413
Yeah, it's called close range
>>344634686
That happened all the time in regular old pubs too. If half of your teammates are retarded, you're gonna get your shit pushed in. This new update just made it easier to stack.
>>344639464
On the contrary I think combo pyro should be buffed and w+m1 nerfed. Its much more enjoyable to play soldier for example against a combo pyro because it's a test of wits to see who slips up first while dodging each other's attacks. Where as a W+M1 pyro there are two scenarios. I'm walking out of spawn fully topped up, he charges me and gets evaporated OR I just got out of a fight with 50 hp left, he charges me and we both blow each other up. Nothing inbetween.
>>344639995
>look i oversimplified a game mechanic
good job
>be sniper
>left click on people
>get frags
wow so low skill ceiling
shit class
anon i main pyro and play with stock flamethrower
and yet i get most of the kills with the shotgun
buffing the flamethrower will just make more people angry at the pyro.
so the only two options left are buffing mobility or alternative playstyles
i'd say mobility is better though
>>344637181
>fun
look at this faggot
>>344640350
Except I did not, and if you drag combo out, you get faceshot. You either do it quick or don't do at all.
>>344640303
But the Pyro's usefulness when he's not using combo weapons is precisely to ambush people who got hurt after a fight to clean up the damage. He works much like the Scout in that regard, only they still fill slightly different roles (and the Scout is much more useful in general for obvious reasons).
The Pyro works best when getting himself into small skirmishes and retreating before the enemy has a chance to attack back. Not charge in full retard and kill himself to get three people on fire who will just be put out by a Sniper with Jarate, a Scout with milk, or a Dispenser or a Medic.
>>344632259
What I want to see happen:
>fix bugs listed in www.frompyrowithlove.com
Most of the bugs with Pyro punish players who have good reaction times and good ping, but don't affect bad players that much.
>possibly change the way the Flamethrower particles work
Maybe replace the particles with hitscan, or with a jiggleboned cone object.
>lengthen and narrow the Flamethrower cone (pic related)
More range will help players who can aim better, a narrower cone will make it harder to aim.
>Reduce the duration of Spy's cloak flickering from 0.5 seconds to 0.25 seconds, while also removing the hidden "reduced duration of DoTs while in cloak" statistic from Spy which was added in Gun Mettle
Pretty much every class can spycheck, despite it being Pyro's job. This change to Spy will make everyone else a little worse at killing invisible Spies, and make Pyros more effective at it.
>Buff Flamethrower afterburn from 3 damage per tick to 4 damage per tick (from 60 total to 80 total)
Pyro's the only DoT class, that's its niche, yet afterburn is weak and easily countered. https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Fire#Surviving_fire
>Give the Backburner 60% self-damage reduction
It'll be like Gunboats for Pyro, making Detonator jumping and reflect jumping have an actually viable health cost. This will add a skilled way for Pyro to get in range to attack enemies.
>Return Axtinguisher to its pre-Tough Break form
Before it was a nice way for skilled Pyros to put out extra damage by flanking like Spies. Now, it's easier to execute, but does shit damage.
>>344640591
Honestly, no class should exist purely for "clean up." Any class can finish a job.
And what you just highlighted is another big problem with the class. Fire doesn't fucking matter anymore. Every class has something that can nullify the effect. That's above and beyond just the natural map features like an aquatic sidepath. Pyro has been rendered obsolete by these countless class updates. Unless he can get back his punishing DoT, I barely see the point in the class beyond slightly more reliable spychecks.
>>344640736
axtinguisher should go back to original
pre tough break was just a fat spy with no invisiwatch and shit knife
of course that'll never happen because shitters complain
>>344632336
He is more of a utility class now. Spook people off with flames. Protect you medic from scouts by blasting them with fire and pushing them away. Remove fires. Whole lots of shit.
>>344639995
>You can script this shit
Not if you want to kill anything other than afk snipers. Pyro has to get into the fight, get a pick, and get out as quickly as possible to stay alive. You don't have the luxury of standing still the whole time and good soldiers and scouts won't make themselves easy targets.
Fun fact, crouching before you get airblasted pushes you further away while being closer to the ground. Easy way to ruin a reserve shooter pyros day.
>>344640591
>to ambush people who got hurt after a fight to clean up the damage.
But that always means dying in the process. Scout has better range and mobility compared to pyro which is why he can do that, there is no reason whatsoever to do it as pyro. Pyro in his current state does best when he can force the enemy into a 1v1 where he can control the fight and use his own weapons against him. Anything more than that and pyro is easily overwhelmed.
>>344640736
What I want to see
A hot stream of liquid death. Screw this poofy cloud nonsense.
>>344640904
Ehh, I kind of think original Ax lacked counterplay a bit.
Pre-TB's Axtinguisher had counterplay in keeping an eye on your flank and not letting the Pyro get the drop on you, and rewarded skilled play.
Combine that with more viable Detonator jumping or the bugs on Degreaser fixed, and you'd have Pyros in the vein of Sketchek just fucking tearing up the enemy at close range, it would be impressive to watch and fun to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VJqCax0kfw
>>344640736
>Pyro's the only DoT class, that's its niche, yet afterburn is weak and easily countered.
Maybe he needs a gun that deals bleeding damage instead. Like clouds of tiny razerblades or something, shit I don't know. Bleed is far superior in that it has no direct counters short of healing though.
>>344641393
I really do miss old axtinguisher. One of my favorite tricks with it for instakilling heavies was pushing a fire particle towards his back then shooting a flare and axtinguishing right as it connects for instant 300 damage.
>>344640879
I don't think it's entirely accurate to say any class should clean up damage. Sure, all of them can, since all of them can do damage in the first place, but there are classes that are much more suited for it than others.
Just look at the 6s meta. The usual way to get kills is to let the Demo or Roamer get a few explosives out on the enemy, call out the damage, and let the Scouts clean up once they hear an enemy is weak enough for a single meatshot to do it. That Demo and Soldier would do much better being able to reload so they can potentially get more damage out on other full health enemies, rather than wasting a ~100 damage projectile on a class that had 20 HP. The Scouts can also do just as much damage, but they reload much faster and have the ability to move all over the fucking place to just keep reloading in the middle of a fight while avoiding all damage.
Pyro works in much the same way. He doesn't have the staying power in a fight, but has the ability to get kills through afterburn if he managed to catch a low health enemy who likely won't make it to any source of being put out in time, and with little to no sacrifice on the Pyro's side.
Just think about this situation: It usually takes 4 rockets to kill a Heavy with no Medic on them if you plan to avoid damage to yourself from the explosives to increase your chances. If you are a Soldier who had to use a rocket to clean up damage on a class and a Heavy immediately comes up to you and starts readying his gun, assuming you can't rocket jump away to safety, you are fucked no matter what because you need that 4th rocket ready and it takes what feels like an eternity to reload just one in the middle of a fight. That class you killed with the one rocket would have worked better if you had had a clean up class with you to get the kill, and allow you to still have the potential to kill something as large as a Heavy if the situation needed it. Just to make a point here.
>>344642123
Afterburn is far too unreliable. Medkits are everywhere. Water is in most maps. And any player who has adjusted for your presence has something to extinguish flames. Also, one of the downsides to certain burning weapons is to reduce its afterburn.
>>344642123
If a soldier wants to finish off a class he can just use his shotgun instead of wasting one of his rockets
![[Coalgirls]_Clannad_~After_Story~_08_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[FC790520].mkv_snapshot_01.10_[2013.12.28_21.26.45].png](https://i.imgur.com/ktf1xoC.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Clannad_~After_Story~_08_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[FC790520].mkv_snapshot_01.10_[2013.12.28_21.26.45].png")
I havent played in 2 years.
Is it still viable to smelt guns into metal?
>>344642623
Most average-quality hats are worth 1 refined and a reclaimed metal. Don't use forging recipes.
>>344635124
No, it's not. Check the most recent blog post.
Does your speed decreace when you disguise as any other class but Medic and Scout now?
>>344633598
Then play 360 tf2. 6 shot solider and demo, level 1 tp, and dispenser, no metal cloak and no airblast pyro
>>344629828
Doesn't matter because quick play takes 20 years to fucking find a game.
>>344637627
Oh man, thats fucking great, the dude even looks the part.
>it's a soldier with blackbox and conchueror or however the fuck you spell that shit
>>344634391
>Demo is slow
Wow. All this time I thought I was imaging it whenever I couldn't catch anyone as a Demoknight or I would get chased down by pyros when running away to reload.
>>344641636
I wouldn't mind seeing
The Fumigator (an exterminator's zyklon B)
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=524486846
>25% increased movespeed on wearer
>tripled "afterburn" duration
>considerably reduced direct damage
>can't damage enemy pyros at all, need to use melee/secondary
>need to spray target for X time to induce afterburn
The Hard Boiler (a high pressure hose)
>Significantly increased range (+300%)
>Airblast includes boiling steam- 10 damage per puff
>Extinguishes allies with primary fire
>Wets enemies
>No afterburn
>Significantly reduced width of flamethrower cone
The Suck Cannon (created from a vacuum cleaner and leafblower)
>can suck in projectiles, hold up to 10, and fire them back out with m1
>no direct fire, just a single puff of flame that inflicts afterburn
>Airblast pushes user into the air
>>344635954
>playing dustbowl
>>344645440
>ariblast pushes user into the air
just give me that
0 damage, 0 afterburn. basically a jetpack
friggin bird-pyro-scout with a shotgun and powerjack shitting on people's heads and taunt-killing afk snipers
just a reminder that Overass is better :^)
>>344646241
It's nice, but they still didn't fix newly spawned enemy players seeing your silhouette while disguised.
>want to sell my 0.03 euro crate
>steam wants some retarded confirmation
>install steam on phone
>enable authenticator
>still unable to confirm
>>344639587
Pyro can single-handedly render an uber useless with almost no effort though.
Also, charging a crowd of people with M1+w will do a hell of a lot of damage.
>>344647320
>Pyro can single-handedly render an uber useless with almost no effort though.
Unless he gets killed as soon as he gets in the line of fire of the enemy team, which will happen 100% of the time unless you are playing against total idiots
>>344647320
>single handedly render an uber useless
false. he can barely slow it down before getting mowed by not only the ubercharged enemy but all other enemies around him.
>Also, charging a crowd of people with M1+w will do a hell of a lot of damage.
a single heavy can shred him to pieces even when the pyro gets the jump on him
imagine a bunch of enemies just suddenly shooting at him
not to mention a single jarate sniper, mad milk scout, another pyro, a dispenser and some other stuff can completely negate all afterburn
pyro dies in the process after 0 kills
>>344647320
>Also, charging a crowd of people with M1+w will do a hell of a lot of damage
>you get mowed down while you run towards them at regular old average speed
>their Medic immediately puts out the fire and heals away the damage you did
Pyro is only a minor setback and a waste of a player who could otherwise make kills, not just mere damage.
Demoman is for doing "a hell of a lot of damage" to conveniently clustered crowds of enemies, and he has actually good weapons that work well at range to back himself up, as well as being one of the most mobile classes in the game.
>>344647546
I'm talking about defensively.
>uber comes up
>shove them back to a range where they aren't very dangerous
>>344647593
Setting half the enemy team on fire may often net zero kills, but it totally fucks with their strategy since the only way they'll recover their health in a reasonable amount of time is if there's a dispenser in a good place (almost never) or there's a medic who can juggle.
Plus, you don't have to M1+W until death. Almost all weapons are weaker at range, so you can just grill everyone, blast them away, and run away yourself.
>>344648113
of course you can run away!
with all the mobility options the pyro has!
like the powerjack
>additional damage when out
or the detonator!
>44 damage every jump
and the scorch shot
>basically jump+crouch
totally worth a slot when a demo can just sticky spam the hell out of them and kill everything in sight on top of being farther away AND having advanced mobility!
>>344648113
If the uber pushes in without support by other players that will gib you as soon as you enter the line of sight, you are playing against a bunch of retards
why do pyro faggots think this is going to get them noticed by senpai
its for a new weapon they don't care about your homo faggot complaints
>>344646923
You will never sell your crate and even if you do you'll get 1 cent because Gaben takes the other two. Just throw it away.
>>344648113
A demo can do it better than he does, and from a distance and without getting killed.
>>344637627
>>344648878
Demoman has to have excellent aim to survive if a scout is anywhere nearby, while Pyro can literally just charge the group then reverse while airblasting.
>>344649105
a demo can do that while being covered by his team fag
Changes Pyro needs:
>More flamethrower damage. It's flat-out not okay that you're better off shottgunning people than burning them as the pyro. Pubbies will cry, pubbies are also dogshit. Take the example blizzard has set with bastion and don't fold when your userbase starts crying.
>Do what you can to fix his jank-ass flamethrower hitreg. Sometimes you won't hit a thing spraying away at point blank, but then later on you yourself will get hit by flames like a mile away. It probably can't be completely fixed, but do SOMETHING.
Just as a start, these two would be great. Pyro can actually be a close range class again and he's not countered by a 350 ping BR playing literally any class.
Possible other changes:
>More maneuverability. Pyro's M.O. is to flank and cause absolute chaos in the enemy before retreating, but he's not very good at actually getting behind people. A detonator buff or a "compression jump" at high ammo cost could help with this.
>Less afterburn counters
At this point, most classes have something that can alleviate afterburn, along with environmental fixes. This is horrible. Stop this.
>>344649168
Honestly well-organised teams make the game boring.
You just get a bunch of players using very little skill or creativity to absolutely dominate.
>>344649105
Why do you assume the Demo has the class that counters him on his ass while the Pyro has not?
>>344649369
he doesn't need his team to be doing anything
he just stays near a few of them and spam when he sees something not his color
>>344649252
what you're going to get is some sort of buff banner for pyro to keep you shitters from thinking your anything more than support
Do we seriously have to run through how pyro is countered by almost every class in the game except arguably soldier which is funny because he was initially Pyro's big counter again?
>>344649598
I see you have an opinion. Nice.
But I have an opinion with a DIAGRAM
>>344639413
It's called ammo. The more you use it, the bigger the need for ammo boxes are.
>>344649429
Pyro doesn't have any counters except Heavy.
Heavy counters literally everyone anyway except far away snipers and demos who like to make sticky traps.
>>344649782
>Pyro doesn't have any counters except Heavy
Pyro can do basically nothing against a level 2 Sentry, or a heckling Scout playing keep-away
>>344649690
>>344649745
why can't you pyro fags just accept you're position at the bottom of the totem pole?
>>344649952
t. angry spy
>>344649952
*your
because i want the game to be balanced? but nice bait, this will be my last reply
>>344649952
Because Pyro should have been fun to play, but has he is now he's dogshit and needs to be fixed.
Besides, he's winning the War update right now anyway.
>>344650008
I play all classes. pyro fags have become more obnoxious than scouts recently
>>344650018
the game is balanced. you will reply because I'm not done with you yet
>>344650146
>you will reply because I'm not done with you yet
OH SHIT, PUT THE GUN DOWN AND JUST CALM DOWN!
Seriously, have a (You) on the house though.
>>344650146
>game is balanced
yup >>344650018 was right
fuck you
enjoy this (you)
>>344649782
Pretty much any class that isn't Spy will rape Pyro on 1v1
>>344649782
LET'S GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN
>Engineer shotgun out-DPSes flamethrower and pistol can pester from out of range. Sentry above level 2 shuts down pyro entirely and he has to rely on his team to get rid of it or he isn't doing anything.
>Heavy hard counters Pyro unless he's using the Backburner and gets surprised. Sandvich means Heavy dying to afterburn will almost never happen.
>Sniper can shoot down Pyro well before he gets in range and shut down afterburn with Jarate.
>Scout FUCKS Pyro. Can two-shot him, annoy the fuck out of him with the pistol from out of range, dodge his flares without much trouble and avoid his flames, not to mention he now has an extinguisher of his own in mad milk. Good Scout should never be dying to Pyro.
>Demoman sticky explosion radius is actually larger than airblast range. Unless Pyro is already on top of him, a good Demoman shouldn't let him get in close.
>Spy is fucked over by Pyro in any infiltration attempts, but it's still not all that difficult for spy to kill Pyro with the revolver before he kills him if Spy starts shooting before he's in range.
>Medic shouldn't kill Pyro, but he shuts down afterburn with heals.
>Soldier may not be able to use rockets or risk getting fucked over by perfect airblasts, but he still wins in CQC with his shotgun.
>>344650231
>>344650404
>>344650609
maybe you shouldn't be going 1v1 as a support class you tards
>>344650890
>Pyro.
>Support.
>>344651234
stop giving him (you)s you faggot
>>344650890
I wasn't the one implying Pyro's only counter is Heavy
>>344635954
Hehey guys, I'm black!
Should balance pyro by making reflects critical.
>>344651732
could you imagine the butthurt?
>>344635954
>"you sound just like the slugger himself"
fuckin kek
>>344633409
Sounds like someone trained a borzoi to bark in english
>>344651732
This, but also allow reflecting bullets.
The game would turn from hectic spam into a cold war standoff. Everyone would assume positions and shimmy around, careful not to escalate. That would be great.
Good spies are incredible now. Some classes can't take them down anymore now.
>>344638079
There's absolutely nothing op about scout, soldier or demo and none of them warrant a nerf. Pyro is just the worst class concept possible and has proven just that by being trash in qwtf, tfc and tf2. Pyro needs a complete rework, the devs need to consider something different than the same fucking flamethrower pyro has had in all 3 iterations for once.
>>344639413
It's called ammo m8
>>344633841
I agree, but only in some maps. An ubered pyro on closed locations (first point on dustbowl or sawmill) wipes the area more effectively than any demo or heavy.
Uber on open areas is pretty much a wasted uber.
What is the best map in the game and why is it cp_gorge?
>>344657146
that map blows cock
best maps are
cp_coldfront
cp_granary
>>344652762
>reflecting bullets
Is it possible to have that kind of bullet physics in Source Engine games?
I don't really think it's possible.
>>344657146
>Not based Badwater
>>344642730
How is that done? I've been building up to 3 refined metal for 1 hat for a while but that value would get me places much faster.
I only just came into PC TF2 after playing on 360 a long time ago.
>>344635954
>you sound like the slugger himself, well you sound like a jackass
