Skill in video games thread
>>344550095
>point and click on same level as Arena FPS
confirmed for never having played good arena FPS
>Professional fighting game players beaten by amateur spammers
>>344550095
>arena fps
>roguelikes
>arena fps
>ARENA FPS
>casual
what kind of shrooms did you say you smoke?
>>344550329
>things that never happened
>>344550582
Even if it's happened one time, that doesn't bode well for any fighting game
>>344550095
>My favourite games require skill
>Your favourite games are SHIT AND ARE FOR BABBIES
Get off /v/ you giga nigger
>>344550704
that's the point.
it didn't happen, not even once, ever.
not in a serious match at least
Dota 2 > Smash Bros. Melee > Dogshit > Everything else > Overwatch > League
>>344550494
None, he's just trolling.
>>344550095
Name an action RPG or WRPG that is more difficult than beating weapons, ozuma, or dark aeons.
>>344550925
Didn't DSP beat Daigo that one time?
>>344550494
>arena fps
>roguelikes
>not casual
What the FUCK are you smoking?
>>344551318
tell me you're not one of those faggots that think that overwatch is an arena fps
>>344550494
>smoking
>shrooms
you're doing it wrong mate
>>344550993
>dota
>above anything
>ever
>>344551238
DSP isnt bad at fighting games. He just crys alot
>>344551229
How is that difficult in the slightest? It simply requires a shitload of grinding (braindead easy) and sticking to a certain strategy (easy as long as you're comfortable with the game mechanics which you should be at this point).
>>344550993
Normiecore: The Opinion
>>344550095
Change "Pro" to "Autistic" and its correct.
>>344550993
>autism.png
>>344551476
It really says alot if DPS is "good" at fighting games yet is a borderline retard at EVERY OTHER game
>people who suck at all the genres listed discussing their difficulty
As if you faggots know a damn thing about how difficult or demanding any of the genres are when played at a high level
>>344550095
>Rhythm Games
>Need "some" skill
OP confirmed for only playing shit game like Osu or GH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0ZwMsryAg
Call me when any fighting game player get on that level. And for faggots who don't know IIDX, to get a "Perfect Great" you need to be frame accurate or up to 1 frame early.
Within +2/-3 frames you get half your score. Anything outside +2/-3 frame gets you absolutely nothing.
>>344550095
move arena fps up and mmorpg pvp down
>>344551867
You do realize DSP is an act right..... right...
>>344552131
No it's not.
>fighting games
>can smash 1 button combos on literally 99% of games and lock your opponent out and win with ease
>skill
LLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>>344550095
How are vn baby's first games? You will never find anyone who's first game was a vn, never.
>>344552189
I hope this is bait and you dont seriously think that.
>>344552220
Here's your (You)
>>344551238
No.
>>344551867
He isn't good at fighting games, he's mediocre at best and he's put hundreds of hours into the genre.
>>344552309
Either DPS is the greatest actor of all time or he's a legit idiot.
I'll let you decide what is more likely.
>>344550095
>RTS
>harcore
I'm an avid RTS fan and even I know it's bullshit. It should move down to some skill and be replaced with grand strategy.
>>344552014
I can't into player 2 side. Shit looks too nuts
>>344550993
Dotafags always have the biggest chip on their shoulder and it's fucking hilarious. You don't have anything to prove, no one cares that you play Dota.
my favorite genre takes the most skill
your favorite genre is casual babby tier trash
>>344552014
>This is what casual shitters ACTUALLY believe.
LOL
>>344550494
>smoking
>shrooms
>>344551494
It requires more than just grinding and there's ways to do it without grinding a shit ton. There's a lot of planning involved too, and shit is easy to miss too. Action RPGs are far more casual and so are the more casual WRPGS.
>>344552545
The general correlation is that the more girlls and normalfags play something the less skill it takes.
There are some exceptions ofc there are obscure games that no one plays that dont take skill.
E.g normies dont play VN's but they dont take skill either.
>>344552410
>Its hard to act like an idiot infront of a camera
I bet you think wrestling is real too
>>344550095
Terrible list
>>344551318
>tfw Arena fps died because it was too hard to play
>>344550095
shit list made by fighting game hipster who hates smash im guessing
i dont play fighting games though,
i'd say to call an entire genre of the same skill level is fucking stupid
and this thread is fucking stupid
Team based FPS take skill?
yeah cs:go and rainbow six siege can take skill
that doesn't mean paladins and overwatch take skill
because they fucking don't
>>344552220
This, i remember i could win a shit load of fights againt most people on naruto for ps2 with one of the worst fighters because i could defend myself and shoot some long reach skills.
>PvP above PvE
Every time
>he has to add in (smash bros) because otherwise someone might not get his bait
here's that reply you ordered
>>344552832
>Naruto fighting games
I guess all FPS is casual because I could run in gun in CoD and get 40 kills and 3 deaths.
>>344552410
>guy acts like a tard on purpose
>"lmao look how bad this guy is at videogames *insert link*"
Its pretty ironic that the people who want to watch a retard fail at games, are actually the ones with the mediocre intellect that got tricked into watching his shit by his act.
>>344552785
>this is what casuals actually kid themselves into believing.
>>344552785
Arena FPS died because of console FPS striking gold with Goldeneye and Halo. The developers all went for the wider audience.
>>344552785
nah they died because they don't quench the need for stupid gimmick shit no one should care about, like unlocks and muh lvling
>>344551867
He was decent at ST and that's about it.
>>344552746
Not him but DSP's been doing it for years and the masquerade's never slipped once. Everyone who's ever interacted with him in the FGC also says he's a fucking idiot so unless he's just 24/7 acting like an idiot his entire life, he's genuinely that fucking stupid.
OP please beat nethack tia
>>344553078
Going for a wider audience = making the games more casual so more people can easily play them. Consoles became drastically more popular and console fps has always been drastically more dumbed down than pc fps because of the control scheme used.
Really, arena fps had its depth on accident but every shooter released beyond that has been dumbed down.
>>344553410
That's the same kind of skill you develop while playing STGs. It looks impressing but boils down to autistically repeating the same patterns over and over again.
>>344553410
>100% Pure memorization and just pressing it down
>skill
>>344553236
The games that killed arena fps didn't have those things.
>Smash will ALWAYS be at every major
>Literally nothing the FGC can do about it
>>344550095
Why are visual novels on here?
I'm not aware of any multiplayer visual novels.
>>344553835
DELETE THIS
>>344550095
>fighting game fags and butthurt rts fags jack eachother off
great thread guys 10/10
>>344553821
>implying chess is super hard
Even AI can easily beat the best chess players in the world.
>>344550329
Lupe fiasco did beat daigo.
>fighters confirmed casual
>>344550095
>point and click
>not casual as fuck
Nigger i love point and clicks but this list is fucking retarded.
>>344553405
He's so indoctrinated in his act he's become it. He's a secret genius.
>>344553592
>>344553601
Memorization and execution are two completely different things.
You can know a pattern, but you may be unable to do it. So you practice, just like any other skill.
>>344554031
>It's not hard because a computer can do it better
Better version.
>>344550993
Hello Peru
>>344554079
A lot of people consider that staged, plus Daigo hasn't won an evo in like a decade.
>>344554353
Kinda? Rhythm games are awkward because they are 100% memorization. You do need fast reactions but you don't really need to think about anything going on while playing them.
I wouldn't consider them easy but I wouldn't put them on par with other competitive games because of that aspect.
>>344554768
Nah
>>344555205
>being this ass(faggot)blasted
why do you have to be mad?
>>344555076
>Rhythm games are awkward because they are 100% memorization.
If rhythm games have MP, though, then that's just wrong. You need counter-reaction skill and memorization, because the other person can fuck with your memorized patterns, making them useless.
>>344550095
By "Turn-based games" you faggots better mean RPGs, and not strategy.
>>344555323
Arena FPS, RTS, and fighting games are the holy trinity of comp multiplayer games.unsure about moba though, never played it.
>>344555667
>game with macro/micro and map management and precise mouse movement requires less skill than a game without
these charts are always good for a laugh. Why are fighterfags so sensitive about their games' required skill? There's still plenty of dedication that goes into learning all the frame data, you don't need to have to posture yourself as something more.
>>344555795
ASSFAGGOTS are dumbed down RTS for people that can't manage to think about more than one thing at a time and have an incredibly strong desire to become fluent in Russian. Because you have to learn a new language while playing, it requires some skill, but not a whole lot.
>>344555667
>Quake 3
>not popular or deep.
>>344556103
>dumbed down RTS
oh boy, it's the nerd who's still upset about warcraft 3 dying to a fucking mod.
enjoy your dead genre asshole, everyone else moved on ages ago
>>344556157
>quake 3
>popular or deep.
>>344555076
Memorizing a rhythm game's notes is far harder than people act like it is.
Also, ANY game that isn't randomly generated becomes easier if you memorize a level.
Replaying a level in some action game to get a perfect rating is no different than replaying a song for a perfect. You'll be more familiar with the challenge each attempt.
>>344556464
Not even him but WC3 still has a huge competitive scene, what the fuck are you smoking?
>>344555795
Dota gets memed on here a lot but I think it is harder than rts but easier than fighting.
Still it's hard to qualify the ultra-high end game setting that no one on here will ever get to.
>>344553405
>so unless he's just 24/7 acting like an idiot his entire life,
Even if that were true that would still make him the biggest goddamn idiot on the planet. Or at least the biggest autist.
>>344556464
>Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides
>>344551318
In my experience most casual people with won't even touch rouge-likes that use ASCII. Perhaps the tier list has rouge-lites on the mind
>>344556693
You seem confused, I was replying to bait, not baiting. The bait image was implying a game with macro/micro and map management and precise mouse movement requires less skill than a game without, which is just silly.
>>344556103
>Why are fighterfags so sensitive about their games' required skill?
It's always the other way around, people who haven't even put 100 hours into a fighter will call them button masher because they can beat their friends and the AI by just randomly doing attacks. That or they say that fireball spam is all you need to do in every game.
You have to actually find a decent player and then develop a lot of knowledge on a fighter to understand its depth.
>>344556724
>dota
>harder than an rts
>literally just a supper dumbed down rts with 1 unit
>>344556693
You're quoting the wrong guy
>>344556916
Here's your (you)
>>344556979
>dota
>rts
>1 unit
me
me
>>344556932
>people who haven't even put 100 hours into a fighter will call them button masher
and fighterfags get triggered every time and RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE for 512 replies and 208 images omitted. Click here to view.
>>344556482
I guess the fps that was the ground work for most modern fps games wasn't popular, odd.
>>344556580
Exactly, it's awkward because you're not competing with another player. It's kinda like racing games really.
>>344556916
This is bait
>>344556979
>>literally just a supper dumbed down rts with 1 unit
Thats a meme that came from people that were neither good at nor understand dota at all.
>>344550095
>Pro Tier
>Fighting Games
>Babby's First Game Genre
>Party Games (Smash Bros)
Why are fighting fags so desperate for recognition? Fighting games aren't very hard. The difficulty comes in being autistic enough to memorise a billion different input combinations.
You have to start questioning your place on the spectrum if you think inputting an attack should feel like entering a cheat code.
Fighting games require objectively the most skill to be competitive at.
You can't argue with it because it's fact.
>>344557156
>racing games
>not competing with other players
You what? You realize Time Trial is only 1 game mode, don't you?
>>344557203
>dota is not a dumbed down RTS
Just how underage are you
I've gone 20-0 against many people online and offline in fighting games and I've had my shit punched in when playing a pro-player much better than me. Skill gaps are insane in Fighting games.
>Implying Smash isn't a party game
>>344556482
You have no idea how popular Quake 3 was. Probably because you weren't around.
>>344557156
So singleplayer games in general are awkward?
>>344557253
>no mouse movement, macro/micro, map management at all
>skill
top kek
>>344557237
Post your Fightcade ID
>>344557437
My what?
>>344557131
>people have conversations on an image board
Jesus Christ how terrible.
but really, you're trying to argue that uninformed players shitposting are better than educated posters proving their arguments wrong. Basically you're retarded.
>>344556724
>AoS
>harder than SC:BW or even SC2
kekking ere m80
>>344557351
>quake 3
>popular
>ever
Topkek
>>344553410
Memorization is never impressive.
Same why expert DDR is shit, they dont even style and use the handlebars.
>>344550095
>VN's
>Not Pro tier
You need extreme mental fortitude and foresight to get into a route of a girl that you want.
>>344557351
>You have no idea how popular Quake 3 was
Nice revisionist history there.
Who are you trying to kid?
>>344557237
>fighting games aren't very hard
>but I can't do combos because it's too hard for me
>>344557585
You already had your (You)s. Don't be greedy.
>>344557498
No I'm not. Are you actually autistic? I mean, you're defending fighting games so you're probably somewhere on the spectrum, but that's not what my post said at all. I'm arguing fighterfags are sensitive babies that get triggered when someone says their games aren't the apex of skill, and you just proved me right. I never said fighting games require no skill and button mashers know what they're talking about, you're just projecting because you got triggered. Calm down, re-read the reply chain, and perhaps stop posting for a few hours. go play one of those fighting games you love so much.
>>344554031
>RTS
>not rock paper scissors
>>344551867
I wonder if it means he plays one game more than others
>>344557428
>Fighting games
>no macro/micro, map management at all
>mouse movement
>skill
Top kek
Why do FGC babbies feel so threatened by Smash? Any sane or rational person would just ignore something they don't like, but their constantly voiced hatred seems to imply something else.
>>344557372
When trying to talk about their depth in comparison to other multiplayer games were you directly interact with the competition, yes.
>>344557309
You know what I'm sayin, not trying to throw racing games under the bus but it's similar to time trial mode in a racer.
>>344557847
>zoning is map management
protip, there's a reason those words are completely different. map management doesn't even have a z in it.
>fighting games
>macro/micro
top kek
>>344557864
Because smash is bigger than them, so many games get cucked out of main stage at big tournaments by smash numerous community.
They cant contain their cucked tears of anguish so they shitpost online against smash.
>>344555313
>
Don't know his gripe but Shmups aren't nearly as hard as easily impressed people make them out to be. You just run against a brickwall till you break through and hit the next.
A single player game can never demand more skill than shit against other players deal with it.
>>344558038
>>344557864
>Why do FGC babbies feel so threatened by Smash?
The only thing thats threatening is the stench of those unwashed literal autists
>Any sane or rational person would just ignore something they don't like, but their constantly voiced hatred seems to imply something else.
>hurr just turn off your nose so you cant smell us or look away when we shit in a pool you silly guy
How about no?
>visual novels
>games
>>344558038
>rts baby embarrasses himself with is complete lack of understanding of fighting games.
Topkek
>>344557732
Nice implications. That isn't what I said. The only fighting game I played in a big way was Soul Calibur 2. All it took for me to plough everyone who played against me into the ground was memorising a characters best attacks and exploiting them and doing basic blocking and dodging. That's it. They have a high skill floor due to moves being confusing to pull off at first, but once you've learned the best moves, combos etc. you're pretty much on-par with anyone else who's bothered to be as autistic as you.
>It's the Fighting Game Players attempt to fellate their ego episode
Why do so many fighting game players have such an ego complex about their perceived "skill level" to the point that they believe they have to prove to everyone else that their "skill" is better or more important than others?
It's just a game, guys.
>>344551229
Ishar series
Crystals of Arborea
Eye of the Beholder series
Wizardry 6 and 7
Modern WRPGs are quite casual tier, though...
>>344557864
See >>344558336
Exactly what I was talking about.
Pure unfiltered FGCuck tears
>>344558293
Let's see you win against AlphaGo famalam.
>>344557237
All semi deep games require and near autistic level of memorizing and practice. Are you trying to tell me that arena fps doesn't have weapon, armor, and map memorization to an insane degree? Or that RTS isn't heavily based around build order?
>>344557741
I wasn't specifically talking about you, you can easily read the thread and see multiple posts calling fighting games button mashers. see >>344552832 >>344552220
I also never said fighters were the apex of skill, so you can stop trying to lump me in with that crowd.
>>344557864
A lot of melee fans a while ago were arguing that Melee was the most demanding and complex game. It's always been awkward between the two, but most not retarded people are fine with either.
>>344557864
>Any sane or rational person would just ignore something they don't like
Worked really well for them. Like getting boo'd in tournaments right before smash starts, or having to distribute deodorant at tournaments because smash players don't shower. Just like how it worked for fans of japanese games to just ignore SJWs and now all their games are getting censored.
>>344558038
Do you even know what zoning is? It's literally just means controlling the field/map, which is the same thing as map management.
Jack-O in Guilty Gear Xrd can place down buildings that spawn minions that fight for her. She has both macro and micro. But if you don't want to look at a single character that's just based on RTS mechanics, then you can look at resource management (super meter, and even better the GRD system in UNIEL) as macro with the actual fighting as Micro.
>>344558460
>The only fighting game I played in a big way was Soul Calibur 2
pic related
>>344558475
>hur why do pepl say dat chess takes more skill dan checkers?
Because its true?
Fightan is fucking shit
>>344557334
I am 31 but thanks for your assumption
Fighting games are pretty much the only video game that actually requires skill.
>>344558391
>social retards can't even beat dating sims
Fucking embarrassing.
>>344558558
You're right man, the tears are flowingThe smell that comes with the kind of autistic faggots that play a childrens party game competitively and absolutely refuse to wash themselves is getting to me
>>344558623
>comparing those games to a situation where different genres require different skills and reflexes
I'd like to see the best fighting game player try to beat the best rts player and vice-versa and watch their egos shatter.
>>344558002
I misunderstood what you meant by awkward. I was thinking "awkward to play" instead of "an awkward comparison"
My bad, I agree
>>344558607
So which fighting games are considered legitimate by the council of superior game-players?
>>344552819
CS Go first of all takes a good preferably optical mouse - then you're much above many people even if you suck.
>>344550095
Hi /fgg/, fishing for (you)'s again?
>>344558869
This happens all the time when it comes to moba/rts and melee/traditional fighters.
They are always dogshit.
Not that anyone moves to rts as it is dead.
>>344558828
FGCuck tears. Hmmmmm
Make sure to watch the stream of your game on your phone since there will be no chairs or space for you at the main stage like the good little cuck you are
>>344558460
So you managed to get below average at a fighting game no one really plays at a high level and that gives you the ability to shrug off the genre as a whole? Neat.
>>344558956
Anything that isn't smash or a 3d fighting game
>>344558607
nah, zoning is just controlling the distance between the characters to your advantage on a single flat line with fancy backgrounds. It's not a map at all. If you say Smash is a fighting game, then yes, fighting games have map management, but wait, Smash isn't a fighting game.
>a single character with a unique mechanic means all fighting games are the same and use the exact same mechanics for all characters
top kek.
>knowing when to use a bar that fills up to attack specially is completely different from knowing when to attack normally
wew such macro/micro skill.
>>344550095
i play most of these genres except the ones in the bottom tier
>ITT people exaggerate about how much supposed "skill" they have in certain genres and act like elitists when almost none of them have probably played at an actual professional level
>>344558869
Each player would win at their respective genres? What else would happen? This fucking saying always gets dropped in these threads but it really doesn't prove anything.
It's like when console FPS players shit on PC FPS by telling the PC FPS players to try a console shooter and see if they do well.
So this list only exists to bait smashfags, right?
>>344559349
Merely playing them doesn't make you any less of a filthy casual
>>344559080
>Make sure to watch the stream of your game on your phone since there will be no chairs or space for you at the main stage like the good little cuck you are
Oh no, there'll be plenty of seats when you autists get kicked out by LVCC staff and Mr.Wizard for stinking up the main floor.
They wouldnt give up a seat for a SFV player for some unwashed autistic pantshitter, anyway.
>>344559349
>he doesn't play video games
Why are you in /v/?
>>344559220
Spouting memes instead of actual constructive criticism doesn't win you any arguments you know right?
>>344558559
In such a case the AI would be a player too though. Same shit with chess computers or perfect Bots in FPSs.
But even the hardest beatable single player games and there are shmups among them can be beaten eventually and that usually takes memorization more than anything, your skill only makes it easier.
>>344554768
Put GM Tetris at Pro Tier, and you've got a deal.Maybe put ASSFAGGOTS at Casual Tier because team communication is a skill.
>>344559526
im p. good at them too tho
only good list
So speaking of fighting games, best one on ds / 3ds? Excluding smash cause I have that
>>344559638
Beating a shmup is the starting point. You aren't good at the game if all you can do is beat it. That's like saying you've mastered a multiplayer game because you can beat shitters in public servers
>>344559537
>/v/
>caring about video games and video game opinions
pick one
>>344559446
That was the implication. It's hilarious that people that are good at one genre or the other try to shit on other genres for not requiring as much "skill" as theirs. The amount of misplaced ego is cringeworthy.
>>344559636
If the other person's 'argument' consists of irrelevant nonsense, I can't make any constructive criticism because they had no points to begin with. It's like saying smash is a fighting game because you have different attacks on different buttons AND you can jump. It's completely irrelevant and by that logic Dark Souls would be a fighting game. What else can you do besides meme at them.
>>344552609
>>344550095
>fighting that high and platforming that low
Eat a bag of dicks FGC fag
>>344556482
Your underage is showing, faggot.
>>344559893
those are some choice mods on the right
>>344553410
>>344554353
>99% of the challenge isn't from hitting the required notes it's actually from being able to actually determine which notes you're supposed to hit because the UI is such a mess
This is why 99% of rhythm games suck nowadays, once you're good at one rhythm game, you're good at all of them so the devs just make it hard to read which notes you have to hit or throw in dumb gimmicky ways to input notes so you have to get used to a new controller.
>>344559686
I don't get this list, Giant Minecraft Projects is literally just the first few hours of dorf fort before you get into the meat of the game, yet dorf fort is higher on the list than it.
>>344558762
>disgusting 3d bitch
>thinks he's better because he's "social"
>is on /v/
Something seems wrong here.
>>344560164
>I'm not used to it so it sucks
>>344559846
Yeah I agree but if you have finished your gold medal highscore no hit run and kicked some gook of the WR list in a shmup you've still only beaten a system not another player who could try harder next time.
My point is the skill ceiling not what it takes to beat up scrubs or finish a single player game.
>>344559915
Yes, you are just playing the whole "I can't argue with him so i'm going to insult him instead" card but with insults replaced with memes.
Only reply back once you can actually argue okay?
>>344550095
>Smash Bros at bottom
sup /r/kappa
if you actually understood anything about it should be between Need Some Skill and Hardcore
>>344550095
>fighting games
>spamming button combos
>skill
My favorite genre take the most skill, while your favorite genre take the least skill.
My opinion is fact. Prove me wrong.
>>344558956
Virtual fighter 4
Tekken
SF3 maybe 5
Guilty Gear
King of Fighters
>>344550993
Pls no poo in pool
>>344560563
NUH-UH, MY FAVORITE GENRE OBJECTIVELY REQUIRES THE MOST SKILL BECAUSE OF REASONS
>>344560758
don't worry i'll float over it instead
>>344550095
Your tier list is awful.
RTS is the pinnacle of gaming skill because you have to focus on so many different aspects simultaneously. Precision timing is everything and one small mistake can cost you the game.
Fightan is pretty high, but you're locked in to whatever input you choose; there aren't a lot of decisions to be made - most of what you do can be autopiloted with a 50/50 on wakeup.
MOBA does not require much skill, it's literally RTS with one unit and 4 abilities; the only skillful aspect is team coordination and composition.
Racing games have little player input - once you learn the tracks/tricks/shortcuts, it's easy.
FPS is pretty high tier; don't fool yourself. Milliseconds matter and precision is everything. Unfortunately, it's another genre where teamwork supremely trumps individual player skill - pointing 4 guns at 2 guys is an easy call to make for the offensive team.
Puzzle games can easily be cheated. Solving them on your own can range from baby to MENSA tier; it should not be on the list at all.
MMORPG pvp is one of the worst examples of player skill. You're mostly locked behind ability cooldowns and team composition; everyone has to blow their cooldowns to kill a player, or you can simply outnumber them for an easy win. Healing is generally overpowered. This entire system is locked behind a massive gear and level wall, so you barely have any serious competition due to the entry barrier.
Rhythm games are all about timing and memorization. If you're wasting your time playing a rhythm games at a high level, you should probably just learn a real instrument. Can range from skillful to borderline unfair; though there is no real competition since it's a single player genre.
>casual tier
pretty accurate, though arena fps and shmup (bullet hell) should be bumped up a tier.
>ultra casual tier
Some platformers are actually insanely hard, esp. with one-life/hardcore mode enabled. I'd put Mario in ultra casual (esp. the newer ones)
>>344560427
You're working under the assumption that the previous WR holder will just give up, and that the person that got the WR won't try to optimize their run further which is stupid. It's competition between players engaging in the system, and the skill ceiling in any somewhat popular game will be insanely high just like with any "true" multiplayer game, and often more so because of how demanding that shit is.
>this shitty bait has 200+ replies
lol
>>344560563
What if we liek the same genre?
>>344560861
Fightan is the pinnacle of gaming skill because you have to focus on so many different aspects simultaneously. Precision timing is everything and one small mistake can cost you the game.
See I can do that too, the best part is that it's completely true as well.
>>344550095
>simulation games
>casual tier
For what reason
Is memorization skill?
Because many games that claim a large skill requirement are generally more memorization than reaction time or strategy.
>>344560861
>Racing games have little player input - once you learn the tracks/tricks/shortcuts, it's easy.
Something tells me you only play Mario Kart.
>>344559220
>knowing when to use a bar that fills up to attack specially is completely different from knowing when to attack normally
Super bars in most fighting games have multiple uses that can change how attacks work in multiple ways. Some characters in SFV need super so they can use EX moves to get in and do damage. There's often situations where you need to weigh the benefits of using the super for the damage or saving the meter for EX attacks later on. Factors like rounds left, enemy health, and your health factor into this.
You're dumbing something down because you don't fully understand it.
>It's not a map at all.
So I guess Chess is casual now, because all you do is move around a flat square and control the distance between your pieces.
>>344559901
Oh, yeah I agree. If you can't play a genre at an above average level then you have no room to shit on the genre as a whole.
>>344560861
This
>>344560861
(contd)
>ultra casual tier
but I'd put iwbtg style games in at least high tier, near bullet hell.
>Smash bros
Pretty obvious bait. Smash is just a fightan with alternative mechanics. Compare 2d fighters like SF to Tekken and it's easy to see that design choices make for different experiences though the core idea is the same.
You really don't know much about videogames, do you anon?
>>344561001
>more memorization
They aren't. If this were the case you could beat them easily by just practicing in a casual way to know what's ahead. Most games that people say are about memorization are more about tight, precise execution and consistency. Memorization is just the basic requirement if you want to get any kind of consistency going.
>>344560957
op thinks world of tanks is a sim
>>344560428
Do I need to break it down?
>a flat line is a map you must manage
pic related. flat lines are flat lines, not maps.
>a single character represents an entire genre spanning 30 years
so Other M Samus represents all metroidvanias?
>a bar fills up over time that allows you to do an attack with different properties, knowing when to use this attack is much, much different than knowing when to guard, crouch, attack high, attack low, jump, throw or grapple, it might as well be a totally different part of the game
shiggy.
>>344550095
>casual
>shmup
>>344560954
You can actually just focus on one or two things when playing fightanI'm a competitive player in sfv
Once you know what you should be doing (which takes a lot of grinding and analysis), it's really just autopilot.
For example, most characters have 2 or 3 important zoning tools, and those ranges are all you have to be concerned with outside of your mixup/combos.
In RTS, you have to manage an entire army of various units simultaneously fighting battles, building armies, controlling ALL of their positions. It's like playing multiple fighting games at the same time.
>>344561265
>tight, precise execution and consistency
So memorization?
>>344560657
>>344561507
>Memorization and execution are the same thing
>>344561117
I'm not dumbing it down, you're building up the mechanic into something more than it is.
>a flat line with 2 characters on it is the same as a chess board with 32 pieces on it
and you have the audacity to claim I'M dumbing something down because I don't understand it?
>>344550095
>racing games in Need some skill Tier
What about racing sims?
>>344561080
You rarely interact with the other drivers, it's mostly a solo challenge of track memorization and if you're going for WR times or whatever, execution.
I've seen some interesting glitches with games like f-zero, but I'd consider glitch hunting a separate category from what OP's talking about.
>>344561507
Sure if you wanna completely ignore the meaning of words. Knowing what to do and actually having the focus, reflexes, consistency and eye hand coordination to do it are different things. If you've ever practiced difficult single player games you should know this, as you will have every detail of a plan figured out ages before you actually get a successful run.
>>344560861
Old school RTS and Arena FPS took an insane amount of skill to get good at. Casuals shit on RTS because the skills required to be good at them aren't really apparent to people who don't play the genre. I feel like Quake 3 probably demanded just slightly less APM when it comes down to executing strafe jumps properly and chasing someone down while lining up shots. That and the reactions needed for Q3 seem limitless.
>>344561625
>executing something that you've memorized isn't memorization
>>344561368
>using SSBM Peach's Castle as an example of a Smash stage
>>344556103
Except you completely forget the team-based part of it. Communication and teamwork is quite hard to execute properly and is an entirely different skill on its own.
>>344561368
You are still controlling space in both situations, just because the map itself is a line or not doesn't change that.
Did you forget to read >But if you don't want to look at a single character that's just based on RTS mechanics?
Oh look more memes. I don't even have to explain to you how much of an impact meter can have on all the options you have, especially in anime fighters like Guilty Gear or UNIEL where meter isn't just used for special attacks.
>>344561909
>memorize how to argue with counterpoints and examples without using ad hominem
>go to /v/ to test out
>completely shit the bed and repeat the same sentence over and over, failing to execute what you memorized
TGM Tetris > All
https://youtu.be/Zt2umIhuTD4
>>344561671
>I'm not dumbing this mechanic down
>doesn't put forth any counter points to prove he's right
lol
>and you have the audacity to claim I'M dumbing something down because I don't understand it?
I'm not comparing fighting games to Chess dummy, I'm saying your argument that a more varied map adds game depth is stupid. You can make varied, multilayered maps for CoD but it isn't going to help the game because it's mechanically shallow.
>>344561451
A lot of RTS is autopilot too. It's a lot of scouting to see what the enemy is doing and then following a build order so you can counter them ASAP. Granted RTS is unmatched when it comes to multitasking.
>>344561864
>APM
>FPS
lmaoing my ass off
>>344561804
I know of no racing games that are played competitively that aren't simulators, like iracing and rfactor. They aren't "easy", in fact they're probably slightly harder than real life motor-racing due to the inability to get feedback from an actual car.
>>344561368
>super bars filling up over time
So you've never played a fighting game?
>>344561864
Yeah, but I like SC2's attempt to make tedious tasks more fluid. There's literally no point in forcing the player to manually click 10 gateways every production cycle if a better ui is available.
I think the strafe jump bug is the same kind of thing. You shouldn't be forced to learn and execute that kind of trick just to begin playing competitively.
Forcing those kinds of unintuitive things on players just means less people are 'allowed' to play your game. You'll have a smaller playerbase, it'll be less competitive, and your game will die out.
>>344562231
>being a fucking nerd loser virgin
>>344562330
Considering one strafe jump is something like 40 actions, yeah.
>>344550095
How did I know it was going to specifically call out Smash Bros before I even finished reading the list?
>>344561671
>the same as a chess board with 32 pieces on it
So the amount of pieces you have in chess actually matters yet the amount of available moves and possible scenarios in a fighting game doesn't? Having those pieces or their moves does not make the map any more simple and flat.
>Melee isn't a fighting game
I don't understand why the fgc doesn't try to get rid of tr4sh instead of melee considering it doesn't actually take skill
>>344562698
Nintendo gives them mad yen.
>>344550329
Doesn't happen
>>344552220
Doesn't happen
>>344552832
Not a fighting game
>>344557237
If you think doing combos is the hard part you don't know what you're talking about
>>344558460
Only works against your shit friends who also don't know what they're doing
>>344560558
You've never played anyone good
t. triggered fightfag
>>344562317
Yeah, knowing the timings on when you need to scout is definitely autopilot. Your build order is autopilot.
But once you start interacting with the other player (usually a few minutes in) the possible decisions you have available on where to spend your time are exponentially more complex.
Counters in RTS generally aren't hard counters (sniper vs. shotgun). By spending a lot of your attention on micro, you can force units that would straight up lose a normal engagement to win. In the meantime though, you still have to be producing units, managing your economy, etc.
Even the autopiloting in a RTS is hard; you've got to hit these specific timing windows in your build for max efficiency, earlier upgrades, expansions, effective pushes, etc.
>>344562490
I honestly loved how Tribes Ascend handled skiing. It wasn't a glitch and new players couldn't instantly understand the mechanic, but it took a while for people to really get good with it and build up speed while maintaining control.
Strafe jumping is kind of esoteric in that there's no in game explanation for how it works. Fighting games also have been getting better at explaining their mechanics, which is vital if you want to attract new players.
>>344563041
I honestly preferred Starsiege's ski mechanic, though I'll admit Ascend was much more intuitive. In Starsiege, you had much more control over your direction; in Ascend it feels like you're sliding nonstop.
>>344562438
All these niggas talking about "racing games" haven't touched something more simulator-like than need for speed.
It's the kind of guys that, given a real simulator with all assists off and a wheel with gear shifter, spin around 5 times, stall the engine and then quit to never come back
>>344562465
>I just stand still and do nothing during the entire round when playing a fighting game
have YOU ever played a fighting game?
>>344562317
>your argument that a more varied map adds game depth
That's not what I was arguing, I was arguing that a flat line is not a map, it's a flat line. Zoning is not the same as map management because there is no map to manage, it's just the distance between two players on a flat line.
How is knowing when to use the Super bar any different than knowing when to grapple or throw? Both are attacks with situational use with a risk/reward element that can change the tide of a battle, and a fighterfag must be proficient in knowing when to use both to excel at their game.
>>344562082
a line literally does not meet the definition of map.
did you not read the rest of what I wrote? I'm saying even bringing up the character in the first place is incredibly stupid because the character does not represent the prototypical fighting game.
see above where I compare meters to throwing.
This thread is literally fgcucks fighting with smash kiddies and rts
Fighting games and RTS games both take lots of skill, but they take different types of skill
Smash is a fighting game which takes skill too, it's just different
And just because ARTS games have less micro and macro management than regular RTS doesn't mean they are automatically casual-tierLoL and Smash 4 are baby tier
>>344562312
You are so right, no one even tries to argue. Split second inputs, planned placement, randomised values. Its got them all, and is almost impossible to play top tier if you aren't hard-wired for it.
>>344563381
Did you not read the rest of what I wrote? It's still controlling space. Whether you think it's a map or not doesn't change anything.
Did you not read the rest of what I wrote? I already told you that Jack-O is just a single character that's based around RTS mechanics in the same post where I mentioned her to begin with, yet you keep bringing it up like a broken record player as an excuse to come up with actual arguments.
>>344563297
>liking simulator games
just drive a real car ffs.
>>344563297
Meh, arcadey racing games tend to demand higher reaction times. F-Zero GX is some next level nonsense.
>>344562973
The only thing that RTS demands over fighting and fps is multitasking really. Beyond that they all seem pretty on par for execution and knowledge. That and if you want to be good at a fighter you need to know every move from every character, which can add up to a retarded amount of frame data.
>>344562538
You wouldnt even know about 4chan if you were normal
Check and mate atheists.
ITT:
>This genre takes objectively more skill than this not even comparable genre and anyone who says otherwise is RETARDED
>>344563829
Not that guy, but give me a car that self repairs, doesn't leave me injured, can restart a course without any trouble and doesn't cost a crapton, and I will do it.
>>344563673
Controlling space is not the same as managing a map. You keep using words that are not synonymous with map management, but are consistently claiming they are. You control space in Ace Combat, too, which is also not the same as map management. Why is it so hard for you to grasp the basic definitions of words and concepts?
No, YOU keep harping on jack-o as an excuse so you don't have to come up with a counterpoint to my actual argument - Super meters are just another tool at your disposal, no different from grapples or throws. You were retarded for bringing up Jack-O in the first place.
Your next response will be "Oh stop harping on Jack-O you sound like a broken record player" and "Words mean what I want them to mean, zoning means you taunted after using a super move" or something equally stupid.
>>344557585
Even the dudebros played it.
>>344559080
Nah it's cool man I'll just watch it in my hotel room on ESPN.
>>344563829
I do.
But renting supercars is too much money even at the events I use to go, and I guess I'll never drive an open wheeler
>>344563964
I do enjoy arcadey fast racers like f-zero, burnout, wipeout and trackmania put they are easy as fuck compared to simulators. That doesn't mean they're not very fun to play, which they are.
>>344564181
No. ITT >>344552545
>>344563381
>have YOU ever played a fighting game?
Are you not arguing that supers work on a cooldown? You need to land hits or throw out moves to build meter. There's a reason you'll see 3S players randomly throwing out medium punches when the other player can't punish them.
>Zoning is not the same as map management because there is no map to manage, it's just the distance between two players on a flat line.
Then what makes map management so much more important? Your whole argument sounds like you're trying to say that map management alone makes a game more skillful.
>How is knowing when to use the Super bar any different than knowing when to grapple or throw?
Well, the super works on a resource and squandering said resource can make getting out of specific situations (fireball pressure, corners) and lot more annoying. Beyond that they both share the mechanic of being punishable if whiffed.
I don't hate smash either, I'm unsure what you're even trying to argue here.
>I have fun playing this game so I need to validate this by saying it takes lots of skill
Why can't you just have fun instead of flaming other people about skill ceilings
>>344563964
You don't need to know every move from every character, just the important ones.
Likewise, for RTS, you don't need to know every build that exists, just the good/common ones.
Knowing frame data isn't that important. Nobody's going to know that Ken's +2 after MP (or whatever), just that you can't press a button after blocking it for free.
Most moves are positive on blockesp. the ones that a good player will use, you just need to know which ones you CAN punish.
I'm going to argue that the execution required for controlling an RTS is much more difficult than controlling a character in fightan. It's because of that multitasking requirement that RTS execution is so hard.
In fightan, you can autopilot your bnb punish combo once you've recognized the situation. Some games, like marvel or kof, have much harder combos I guess. 1f links are a bitch and plinking is a godsend.
>>344564345
I guess if it's a really hardcore F1 sim, then yeah, but most "racing sims" don't go for an insane level of detail and can be played with a controller.
put any top rts player against a top fighting game player in either genre and itll be a one-sided stomp
how the fuck are the two even comparable
>>344564249
Then can you explain what map management means to you? If you can't even decide what it actually means then you can keep going on about it not being the same as controlling space.
Do I have to repeat myself like you do? You are the one who keeps bringing her up
Oh man now you are going to the actual insults instead of memes, you are really bad at this.
>it's just another tool at your disposal
Map management is just another tool at your disposal. Micro is just another tool at your disposal. Macro is just another tool at your disposal. You can spout superficial sentences as much as you want but they aren't a replacement for actual arguments.
