Are RTS just figuring out the mathematical best production line?
and how to supply it. It's called 'macro
>>344281596
Anything could be called macro. That doesn't make it interesting design.
>>344281516
>RTS
>not city builders
Oh boy, you have much to learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTJQTc-TqpU
No it's about recon, flanking, defense in depth and recon.
>>344281516
Depends what youre producing. Large units, swarms, defences? Also micromanaging your units can give you an edge in hindering the other player, so it isnt limited to production
>>344281998
>No
If you can't put out the production line of your opponent, you lose. That's not strategy, it's memorization.
>>344282028
Everything, from generators to units.
>>344282093
What you decide to product hugely varies on what your opponent is producing.
There is not "most effective production" because unit combinations have different costs and build times
>>344282093
You can't memorise how your opponent will build, where he will attack and so on, that's what makes RTS interesting. In the early game you pick your build depending on what you think your opponent will build (building counters etc) then as the game develops, you react accordingly.
Traditional RTS are very mathemtical but reaction time and clever thinking is needed as well, it's just that math is most important in those.
But in games like Wargame of Men of War math goes out the window and clever thinking and tactics become far more important.
It's about that, and how to build the most effective offense and how to respond to what your opponent does.
>>344282229
That's a huge generalization, and it's completely inaccurate.
Play SupCom any? Having a better economy and more factories within the first 5 minutes is a win.
>>344282261
It seems like that's trying to say that no RTS benefits from memorized production, and that's based on what? If you can rush faster and better than the other player, you win.
>>344281516
It all about doing more stuff than your opponents.
>>344282398
Anyone got that webm (or was it gif?) of Starcraft player leaving after one miss click in round start?
>>344282093
Wargame doesn't have a "production line".
There are supply routes you need to hold to call in reinforcements but no buildings and no tech tree. All your units are available from the get go but if you call in a top tier tank at the start without the proper support you're asking for it to get sniped by and ATGM jet/helo.
>>344282358
>Wargame of Men of War
Those are both real time tactics games and not really RTS though. Different genre really.
>>344282527
>no buildings and no tech tree
Seems like shit.
>>344281516
>We figured we could save money by coding humans to be organic base-building algorithms for our upcoming space adventure game.
>>344282471
In fact supcom is the only rts I play
If your economy is only barely better than your opponent, he could easily win with better unit compositions and strategy. Of course if your opponent has a shit economy he will lose
>>344282471
Youre the one generalizing. You need both economy and strategy in a good match, its not one or the other
>>344282531
The whole "Real Time Tactics" bullshit is literally a buzzword that was created AFTER those games came out and revolutionized RTS genre after years of stale shit that basically kept copying Warcraft, Starcraft and C&C.
They are very much RTS games, and just because you don't like to name them as such doesn't change the facts.
>>344281516
In a casual RTS yes. Games like Starcraft 2 are all about doing you X strategy perfectly and hoping your opponent didn't pick a strategy that counters it.
I good RTS like SUPCOM lets you realize when your opponent has you countered and lets you come back. Its not so much about what you have rather than its about how you use it an react or force your opponent to react.
>>344282517
>one
He missclicked like 3-4 times.
Since Starcraft is mathematically "perfect" so to speak, he was fucked because he'd always be those ~2 seconds behind the opponent even with perfect execution of everything afterwards.
>>344282634
>>344282747
>You need both economy and strategy in a good match, its not one or the other
What's being suggested is that there's no strategy to memorizing the perfect production to how much resources a map provides. If you're on top of that, there's nothing your opponent can do to stop you because he will have less than you. It's simple math.
>>344282093
>>344281516
>an arrangement in a factory in which a thing being manufactured is passed through a set linear sequence of mechanical or manual operations.
It's a build order, not a production line
>>344282471
>If you can rush faster and better than the other player, you win.
>if you can aim faster and better than the other player, you win in fps
woooooooooah
There's more to winning than this but what a stupid fucking pointless thing to say.
>>344282871
>there's no strategy to memorizing the perfect production to how much resources a map provides
>If you're on top of that, there's nothing your opponent can do to stop you because he will have less than you
have you ever actually played competitive multiplayer in a game like supcom?
if you think being an autist about build orders will get you anywhere then you simply have no idea what you're talking about. that shit is relevant for the first two or three minutes of a game at most, and goes out of the window completely when you make contact with enemy forces.
Aeon > UEF > Seraphim >>>> Literal Shit >>> Cybran
fite me.
>>344283106
He's not talking about just units. >>344282093
>>344283170
>>344283234
Well, e.g., MOBAs have the laning phase to stagger those that are decent at creep farming and other early game elements and those that aren't. Just memorizing 1 factory > 2 power generators > X secondary-resource extractors > X factories isn't dynamic or varied, but it still wins.
FPS are much more than "just aiming faster". There's map and objective strategy and teamwork.
>>344282785
well how do you think genres are conceived? do you think some dev sits in a room and thinks of funny genre-name and afterwards starts to develop ideas how this genre might play? if a specified name is more fitting, why not use it? since they play very very different.
>>344283437
>Cybran last
nigger what
>>344283608
what even is your point nigger
you pick an initial build order based on what your initial game plan is - once you see what your enemy is up to you adjust your game plan and further build order dynamically
>>344283929
Because there's always that player that's quicker than you.
>>344283812
Inventing new genre separations just for the sake of separation is dumb, is what I'm saying.
You don't have FPS separated into CoD-like FPS, DOOM-like FPS and so on.
It's dumb to arbitrailly try and separate RTS just because you don't like the playstyle of some of them.
>>344283170
My friend is better at FPS than me in terms of twitch shooting but my strategies and flanking maneuvers put him #1 in the leaderboards in Planetside 2.
>>344283870
Literally space niggers.
>we wuz free n' shit.
>>344284096
you're not wrong, but ask anybody on the street what they think when they hear "RTS". anybody will tell you isometric, resource management, base building.
>>344284247
>not liking the most powerful tac missiles in hte game
>>344284295
Ask anyone on the street about FPS and they will describe you CoD or Halo. Your point is moot.
>>344284360
>against the best tmd in the game.
>>344284096
>You don't have FPS separated into CoD-like FPS, DOOM-like FPS and so on.
are you dumb?
games like quake and unreal tournament are regularly referred to as arena shooters, explicitly to distinguish them from common modern fps like cod.
>>344284447
see >>344284469
sub-genres are a thing
>>344284469
>>344284610
>moving goalposts
Arena shooters are not the same thing. But try harder you autistic sperglords.
>>344284792
how was that moving the goalposts exactly? and resulting to insults doesn't help your case, insecure autist
>>344284792
>arena shooters aren't FPS
