Do you think it's ethical for someone who creates cracks and enables pirated copies of games to help devs create anti-piracy measures in their games?
I'm in such a position right now and have wondered if this is a legitimately useful thing to any party at all.
On one side the dev can fight piracy somewhat better, maybe not perfectly, but would allow for ways to fight it without having to rely on Denuvo, DRM or SecuROM (people still use this for some reason).
On the other hand, we have groups that pirate that will be pissed for someone creating cracks suddenly make it harder for other cracking groups, which will only cause a stir of commotion and bitching.
If in this position what would you do?
>tl;dr
>is a professional pirate enabler helping devs fight piracy ethical?
But what if you could magically clone bikes, OP?
The alternative is am I just an asshole for doing this?
Shitposting is absolutely welcomed
Mate, you are not breaking any moral laws, do it if you want to and feel comfortable, you aren't a heretic mate
If you can make money doing it, who gives a shit? Anti-piracy only stops day one shit anyway, as a pirate I literally don't give a fuck if I have to wait 5 years for someone to crack a game. If the company is delusional enough that slapping on some DRM will get them an extra 10,000 sales, then go for it.
>>344275315
I can magically make another fuck hole in someone's body but I dont have to when onaholes are a thing do i?
Pirating is great for a lot of reasons, but if im getting paid to fuck with other cracking groups and people that want day-1 cracks should i really say no?
They've stooped low enough to come to someone that breaks their games wide open to help secure it, so I could be a cunt to both sides if I needed.
>>344275401
do i leave a company to die or do i leave people without a day-1 crack - potentially months without one?
Morally id help both at once but thats just not possible this time
Anti-features are unethical
If they are offering you a job, and that job pays higher than what you're already doing, go for it.
>>344275492
You can't shitpost for shit my man. Just do whatever gets you the most money if that's what you're after, otherwise do whatever makes you happier. Just don't make something that'll shit on the non-pirate consumer.
Its your future, anon.
Just know that the practical is almost always the right one.
It's "penetration testing" or some shit. Of course it's fine. Most people think piracy is immoral anyways.
>>344275476
The issue is it may end up being never if we try the methods that I had in mind
Or until RSA is cracked and theres almost no chance of that happening. It's not that i expect it to never be cracked, its just that this new form of protection may stop every cracking group.
>>344275512
I do most of the cracking for free so anything is better.
>>344275618
There's no way it should shit on an average consumer at all.
>>344275621
>become the most hated person on the planet in vidya
>get money
its a tough choice. its a really big change in what i do so i havent decided whether i should really do it.
>>344275147
Its natural selection at works. Do it, make it harder to crack so next gen of hackers will need to improve their skills.
Or are you sure your help to combat piracy will really make it stop? Like, really?
Dont you believe that next line of hackers will be able to breach that? Thats bretty arrogant desu.
If you get paid, do it.
>>344275492
release a cracked version that only let's people access 1/3 of the game or deletes save files halfway :^)
>>344275843
>Or until RSA is cracked and theres almost no chance of that happening
You've got to be pretty dumb to think people will target the RSA side instead of just cutting out the checks.
>>344275843
>become the most hated person on the planet in vidya
You sound like a fucking dork, and you are probably lying
>>344275950
heres a (You)
>>344275969
ive already planned ahead for this. RSA is the core form of protection, everything else is a mix of protections that havent been used publicly as of yet. Checks are easy to get past but you still have to get to the checks to even do anything anyway. What happens when you cant even get to them or even see where they are? What then?
>>344275972
If what I have in mind was applied to games now (though likely only PC being relevant as consoles can circumvent it easily unless i mess with that more) then piracy could be stopped in full unless I specifically give the key to let it happen again
Thats the scale we're working with now. It's not just for one company, it can easily stop game piracy for quite some time. Ive given some samples for cracking groups to crack and they havent been able to for the past 3 years even for something so small (like a small 50mb game)
>>344276230
Just do it, dork. Plunge the scene into darkness, it'll be amusing for all of us.
>>344276230
>>344275843
So, Denuvo you say.
>>344276326
yeah until you realize that you'd have to pay for everything.
And they'd probably add an extra 10 bucks onto it just because of how much effort it takes to protect the content as well.
>>344276464
Denuvo is trash. I have no idea why Doom is taking so long to crack when it's really fucking simple. The group working on Doom needs to either step their shit up or just stop trying because they have no idea what they're doing.
Denuvo just takes longer to crack, its not any extra challenge what so ever.
>>344276543
>yeah until you realize that you'd have to pay for everything.
I do pay for everything anon
>inb4 10 bucks adds over time
So does consistently getting paid and enjoying maybe 3 games a year. You are a super liar with no proof of anything but I'm tired and you're kindly replying.
>>344276543
i get mixed messages from you. you want to help people by giving them cracked games but then you don't crack denuvo besides it being "so easy"? you ask what to do but you seem to be pretty fixed on not wanting to get that job?
>>344275147
>Do you think it's ethical for someone who creates cracks and enables pirated copies of games to help devs create anti-piracy measures in their games?
Depends on what the method involves I guess? If it fucks over legitimate consumers and/or does something borderline illegal then yeah that would be pretty scummy, but otherwise I don't really see why ethics comes up.
>>344276679
Also cracking Denovo and therefore making it unusable would help your uncrackable super protection even more as they need sth new then.
>>344275147
Honest answer, if you are actually in this position?
Take the fucking money. Piracy and anti piracy will just keep evolving till your part in it no longer has value, and nothing overall will change. Also, if you don't, someone else will. Might as well get paid for it
>>344276679
i have 30 days to decide to secure gaming rom piracy or to just let it keep happening. for the past 15 years ive been cracking games for people for free. changing it up to get paid to kill what ive been doing for so long is a very conflicting thing
I want to help devs, but i want to keep piracy available to people. It would be a complete mirror of what im doing and im not sure whether to really do this even if id get paid very well for years to come
i mention denuvo and doom specifically because that cracking group has no fucking idea what theyre doing.
>>344276625
>I do pay for everything anon
anyone could read this and tell youre full of shit
>>344276819
the method in mind only really adds to cost of the retail price. thats about the only thing that would really be bad in the end
>>344276873
>you can just get denuvo source from the right contacts
thats how fucking trash it is
>>344276967
If you're morally conflicted then do your method, guarantee only up to a month or 2 of security (like denuvo) then just leak the crack yourself
In my opinion the most ethical way to do piracy.
Is hold of making cracks for most games for a year if not more.
This way most lost sales due to piracy get prevented even if its a small insignificant amount.
And it helps preserve games for future generations.
Hell some big name games cant even be purchased anymore and the only way to play them is piracy and sometimes emulation.
>>344276967
>the method in mind only really adds to cost of the retail price. thats about the only thing that would really be bad in the end
How would it add to retail price when that's not the case with other DRM? Sounds really fucking shady.
>>344277126
that's most likely illegal and if any of what he says is true he will be the first to be suspected
>>344276967
are you happy right now and do you think you will be happy if you continue to do what you have done for the last 15 years? are you or is it likely for you to be in a financially struggling situation? is money more important for you than the freedom to have control over all your time? are you unhappy with not having a regular job with responsibility and security in your life?
>>344277126
theyd probably just keep the money in the end if i did that.
that or move on to someone else
>>344277187
theres no reason it should happen but im sure theyd find a way to justify it.
i wouldnt have any say in pricing, but thats what i assume would happen.
they can charge 60USD or more for just broken contentless games so why not bump up the price anyway?
>>344275147
If you're getting paid, go ahead. It's your right to use your knowledge for your own benefit.
>>344277368
>are you happy right now
i wasnt ready to feel tonight but okay
my happiness comes from whether what i do makes people happy. the more people that are happy with my work the happier i am
obviously theres no way to win this in what i do but its the thought that counts.
>>344277375
>theres no reason it should happen but im sure theyd find a way to justify it.
>i wouldnt have any say in pricing, but thats what i assume would happen.
>they can charge 60USD or more for just broken contentless games so why not bump up the price anyway?
Ah, I thought you meant the DRM would have a direct effect on price, but if it doesn't and it's not some other shady bullshit then do whatever you want.
>>344277649
Are you wealthy?
Stable enough life for the next few years?
Do you have to support any one?
Have you already explained the tech to anyone else or have you seen it elsewhere?
Do you usually make life changing decisions on 4chan?
>>344277649
that's very nice of you. obviously both choices with make some people happy. what group of people would you rather see happy? what about the other questions? also thinking about others will only make you happy to a certain degree if you don't think about yourself from time to time.
>>344277649
Do the option that nets you the most money faggot
>>344275147
Are you getting paid and credited for doing it? If yes, do it. If not, tell them to fuck off.
Anon, the "ethical" decision would logically the one where 1) you get paid 2) you get paid to do something legal 3) you get paid to do something legal, over the table, by a company
Your previous lifestyle is the unethical one, I unashamedly pirate stuff but let's be real here, I don't think anyone should be pretending it's the "ethical" route, you're taking intellectual property that is nominally meant to be paid for.
Take the job OP, get that paper, pad the resume, and get out if you feel to squeemish about it. You make it sound like you're paying poor people for their kidneys to sell on an organ market or something, sheesh.
>>344277478
>to your own benefit
what benefit do i have other than money in the end? yeah money is nice but when ive thrown away what ive worked at for so long it feels like im throwing away everything.
>>344277847
average middle class. i just work fast food and do all this on the side.
yes
no other than myself
no
no but it seems like a choice that could be more beneficial as opposed to people i know in person or via forms of contact since most do what ive been doing and would immediately be opposed to it.
>>344277884
>what group of people would you rather see happy?
>i hurt developers if i dont. ive become friends with former developers that went out of business for the cracks i made. its awful to see what damage it can actually do
>i stop piracy and all free riders and cracking groups dissolve or find a new way to break it, making a huge uproar and the big companies can shaft any consumer even if i didnt intend to
>think about yourself from time to time.
i do frequently. i had an existential crisis last month about this. as far as im concerned im here to serve others with or without thanks.
>>344278046
i cant imagine anyone throwing away 15 years of work just for money.
my options are
>do it and get money
>dont do it and keep cracking
>leave the cracking scene in full
and none of them are appealing.
>>344278207
ill have til the 5th of next month to decide on what i do (may be the 6th. have to check that email again)
theres a list of bad and good ive done for both sides of this shit. its been killing me to try and settle this easily
I suppose I could see if the contract can be reworked to only handle PC related affairs instead of all platforms. Though they'd probably just use the same methods on consoles as well in the end whether I do it or otherwise.
The alternative is don't touch PC games, and only stop console piracy.
What do you anons think?
>>344278640
>and none of them are appealing.
so continuing to do what you do right now isn't appealing to you? do you enjoy cracking or just helping people?
>>344278640
Well, what you do then is give the tech to me, since I have a family to support, let me make bank on it, and you keep cracking the. Just give em that couple months of sales first and they'll be happy.
Everyone wins
What if you created the anti-piracy and anti-anti-piracy measures both? You get both money and fame.
>>344275147
Ethics don't come into it. Can it make you an easy buck? Or like, a couple of hundres thousand?
>On the other hand, we have groups that pirate that will be pissed for someone creating cracks suddenly make it harder for other cracking groups, which will only cause a stir of commotion and bitching.
What a load of toss. Nobody knows who you are., You're not going to say 'yeah I'm that cunt who cracked this shit but now I work for THE MAN, here's my name and address:'.
And somebody else will crack whatever you come up with anyway. Fuck, you'll probably 'crack' it yourself 6 months later under another alias so you get e-peen from both sides of the camp, am I right? Of course I'm fucken right.
>>344279651
and a law suit most likely.
>>344279317
If i keep doing what im doing they'll drop a shit ton of lawsuits on me theyve stored up.
They're willing to toss them all and forget about everything ive done if i agree to the contract, so doing what im doing has finally caught up to me.
theyre willing to do the same if i cease all activities regarding such as well, so it's either stop cracking, sign the contract, or keep cracking and get fucked
all of these choices have me conflicted.
>i feel guilt for the damage ive caused and feel i should be punished
>i dont want to get punished and am willing to start new if thats what it has to be
>but dont want to toss everything ive worked at for the past 15 years
if we're thinking about me, i lose on every option despite gaining something out of it.
>>344279513
its either companies win, pirates win, or i win
besides if they (somehow) figure out what kinds of protections i have in mind, without me saying a word, id still have a way to crack it regardless, so even then they cant win.
as far as i know im the only one able to actually do this.
>>344279691
>Can it make you an easy buck? Or like, a couple of hundres thousand?
We're working much higher than that anon. Much much higher.
>And somebody else will crack whatever you come up with anyway
they havent cracked the sample for 3 years for only half of what i implemented. if that small sample game only used half of what i can do and its still not cracked for 3 years thats a problem. we're looking at something more secure than RSA and i dont think many people can fathom what kind of work has been put into this.
working from both sides only works so long anon. It really cant stop much
>>344275147
You can help them, but if any of your "help" becomes DRM that is detrimental to normal non-pirate users, then that is a greater moral wrong.
Like, help them fight piracy, but if the answer is some always online shit or whatever then kys
>>344280192
ive stated already it doesnt affect non-pirate users. the companies that use it would be doing the damage here whether i can stop them or not.
the only flaw it has is if a company abuses the security to make people pay more for content. i dont expect it to happen but its a very possible thing
>>344279969
so continuing is no option whatsoever because that, even if you won't get convincted, can cost you enough to ruin you. would you enjoy having a regulated job? think about alternatives. what would you like to do if you would hypothetically leave cracking altogether.
>>344280517
>what would you like to do if you would hypothetically leave cracking altogether.
what im skilled in is encryption and decryption. data. anything revolving around security and its contents.
government contract work is a possibility should i leave my regular food job. they pay well and i can do what they ask. The downside then is if what i would be tasked to do be ethical. if its not then i want no part.
i want what i do to harm as few people as possible and i sure as fuck know the government wont have any of my moral shit.
next best thing would be just find another hobby
>>344280513
DRM inherently does affect all users down the line when it comes to game preservation
If the authentication servers for something like Denuvo ever go offline and the games were never cracked, those games are suddenly lost to time unless the developer patches the game to not have Denuvo in it any more (something I find highly unlikely to happen)
There are already games these days that you can't play anymore and wouldn't exist in any shape or form if piracy hadn't preserved them
fuck ethics
>>344280940
>preserving
30% of my cracks are specifically related to this and this alone
>>344279969
I don't much care what you do but take this from it: as a filthy self-entitled pirate I would not feel betrayed if you 'switched sides'. I don't feel that there are sides, really. You're just choosing between a hobby and work that pays well.
But hey, make a big deal out of it. See if I care!
>>344280865
what do you expect the government to tell you to do? do you think they are some evil entity?
>>344280865
Working for the state isn't nearly as morally dubious as you seem to think, most state employees are just regular salary dudes.
Just stop cracking and do government contracting if you think you can. Win-win.
I made a strawpoll, just to look back at.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10696449
>>344281365
If I did, you'd be losing out on Day-1 Denuvo cracks in the future (not like this year or anything but I have something in the works that has shown good results).
>>344281469
>do you think they are some evil entity?
Anon you really dont understand how deep that rabbit hole goes.
>>344281607
Wasn't going for state, was going for federal. State isn't as involved as Federal would be. State is nice too though.I'll probably try that before Federal
>>344281754
>Anon you really dont understand how deep that rabbit hole goes.
ehh, i think your giving the government way too much credit. there is a shitton of people working in it with lots of very different and opposing opinions.
>>344281754
>Denuvo cracks in the future
Please keep doing that. Game preservation is highly important
>>344275147
Piracy doesnt affect the industry.
Im still going to buy an average of 50 games a year and pirate every one of those 50 before purchase to try out. The industry has turned shit and you cannot trust devs.
denuvo exists to protect games in the first essential months of release, after that crack that shit if you think denuvo helps protect gaming. However most guys saying denuvo is easy to crack are baiting
>>344275147
>Do you think it's ethical for someone who creates cracks and enables pirated copies of games to help devs create anti-piracy measures in their games?
It's not about ethics. It's about making a fucking living and earning money. If a company offers you a job to make anti-piracy shit.. there's nothing wrong with that. Why do you even have to ask? A job's a job.
> On the other hand, we have groups that pirate that will be pissed for someone creating cracks suddenly make it harder for other cracking groups, which will only cause a stir of commotion and bitching.
Who gives a flying fuck what pirates think? Most pirates never even know the people who made cracks for them. They just want to get free games to play, that's basically what almost all pirates know. They don't give a fuck who made the cracks.
> If in this position what would you do?
If you don't have a fucking job... take the job. Fuck what anyone else thinks. And people who do know you will understand that you need to put bread and butter on the table. Anyone who criticizes you for this is a asshole anyway. Fuck em. Look out for Number 1 first, yourself.
i don't give a fuck
>>344282018
the best i can do is if i leave cracking altogether or sign the contract is pass long my work to others and hope they know what to do.
if i wasnt put in a corner for this i would keep working on it, but if i dont sign and dont stop ill be stopped by force in the end anyway
>>344282002
depends how far you want to go.
>>344282214
>Piracy doesnt affect the industry.
as a whole no, but ive single handedly ruined 3 companies from a day-1 crack. no person can be okay with something like that.
>>344282256
bit it really isnt hard to crack at all. what ive worked on can allow day-1 cracks if i finish it soon. access to denuvo source code has allowed me to reverse the whole process with just a small amount of info for each game, but its not ready to work for everyone yet.
it can protect the first few months for every normal cracking group (the doom crackers need to just stop. either do it or dont), but with this there wont be any game that cant be cracked on day 1 unless they rework denuvo in full
>>344282383
read the thread because ive given my response to those already
i have a job. it gets me by. thinking about me first usually leads to issues
im out of images to use for the thread
>>344282685
>single handedly ruined 3 companies from a day-1 crack
Pirates /= purchases
They were gonna fail anyway
>>344282685
>as a whole no, but ive single handedly ruined 3 companies from a day-1 crack
Can you name one of em?
>>344282892
but that still doesnt make it okay for me
ive befriended some devs that ive harmed from this and after hearing what theyve been through after packing everything up and closing the studios it made me realize that i have to be careful with this shit.
>>344282964
yes but if i do then it only takes a few more searches and clicks to find out who i am and thats not something im willing to allow
Okay, let's say you own a bread shop... etc etc
>>344277649
Assuming you're not bullshitting
Who are you going to be working for? A game company, or a specific antipiracy company?
Tough call m8
Why did you not release the cracks anonymously so you couldn't be caught? Is it fame?
What's stopping you from doing something similar in the future? How exactly would they track you?
