Sooo... what happened to the RTS genre? Why is Starcraft the only one that survives more than a few years (and SC2 is already slowly dying, too).
Playing with elites is pure funk because it's just mathematical bests for production queues, and they have it figured.
Blame SC2 for killing the whole genre with their esports bullshit. Fucking Blizzard kills everything they touch.
>>344221878
I got C&C 3 at the steam sales, and it is fucking empty.
>>344222234
Does this mean Blizzard is going to kill the FPS genre with Overwatch?
>>344222234
Blizzard is the only reason the genre is even still alive, you moron.
The reason RTS is dying is because almost no one has any idea how to design a good fucking RTS title these days. And don't get me wrong, SC2 isn't perfect, it's got plenty of faults too, but it's the best we've got right now and Blizzard is able to get away with being lazy with it because they have the market cornered.
RTS, more than almost any other type of game out there, requires extremely elegant, comprehensive and clever design, and most game designers these days don't even understand the core principles that entails.
>>344222393
that happens when the servers are shut down yes
CoH2 still has a multiplayer scene, not huge though.I like coh2
People moved to moba and they thought they were hot shit leaving RTS to burn, its okay because we still have the classics, DOW III is coming out soon which looks breddy gud, I wonder if E.A will ever make a new C&C and not cancel it
sc survived because of the people like sickzii and hbt have a large following
rts died because of companies losing track of how to make a proper rts. ea with cnc/ra is a prime example. why arent more being made? because rts has always been pretty niche in general. its never been a prime time genre like fps or rpg. so the little/medium sized companies that made them died off (age of empires 4 never) and no ones picking up the slack. halo war 2 is going to be just like halo wars 1 (fun because its a smooth, well done halo game, but not really a good rts) and dow 3 is going to be really hit and miss, mainly because relic made two different communities by making two rts games that are complete opposites.
People today are fulfilled with fast food cultures. As you can see from SC2's Hollywood plot, the audience is totall cancer now.
>>344225057Me to even with the fucking crazy ass relic balancing
RTS has such a very specific and narrow set of arbitrary rules that determine if its an RTS or not, which means it cannot evolve
RTS now has no unit building
>WAAH ITS A MOBA NOT AN RTS
RTS is focused a lot more on territory or stats management
>WAAH ITS A 4K OR A CIV CLONE NOT AN RTS
RTS is more economy based and construction
>WAAH ITS A SIM CITY NOT AN RTS
Ask a guy what a TOTAL WAR game is, he wont tell you its an RTS, he'll actively avoid mentioning RTS because being called an RTS is a fucking death sentence.
>>344223871
>TFW I am the only motherfucker that likes this game.
It was my first C&C.
EA and Mobas.
>>344229586
Total War isn't an RTS because it is a TBS/RTT game.
>>344230940
MOBAs aren't as fun as RTS. The latter just has a fuckhueg problem that is interesting / fair progression as it parallels strategy.
>>344230774
I like RA3, its not as good as it's predecessors, but you can tell they put a lot of effort into the game. The Dreadnaught in RA3 has better voice lines than the one in RA2, and the music is solid. Its pretty fun and I enjoyed it, though I'd rather play almost any other CnC except for CnC3 and CnC4, which are garbage.
>RA3
>your first CnC
I pity you.
>>344230774
It's not a bad game, it's just not as good as the others. The soundtrack is killer, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSepa672f0s
>>344231147
>MOBAs aren't as fun as RTS.
No, but they are more popular because they are dumbed down RTS games.
RTS died because it's boring.
>>344231574
>they are more popular because they are dumbed down RTS games.
Vague.
>>344231574
Except MOBAs are free.
>>344232068
They're RTS games for people with the mental capacity to control only one unit.
Check out cossacks 3. The originals were pretty good.
RTS died because it takes 15-40 minutes for a game that you can lose in the first 5-10. I understand assfaggots are similar in this regard but I don't play 'em
Also in RTS you have nobody to blame but yourself, I always hear my friends complain about someone in dota or whichever losing a game for them, in shooters it is a similar thing, RTS is primarily a 1v1 genre and admitting your faults is hard for a lot of people. Its also the reason 2v2 games are popular with low tier players in RTS, so you can blame your teammate.
>>344232068
look at wc3. it was the big reason why mobas got popular. they had hero units with the 4 ability getup, all that people did was remove the other units, and there you go, a moba. mobas can be a lot easier to get into on average, and have a lot more people playing because of how dumbed down they can be compared to rts games, and most other genres in general. plus, mobas are team games, meaning that its easier for a group of friends to play together.
>>344222234
How does esports kill anything?
>>344221878
General decline of humanity.
>>344233025
People playing games in a way I don't aprove of
>>344231781
Then how come we still have call of duty, iphone games, halo, sony "cinematic experiences", fifa, and madden?
>>344221878
Friendly reminder Seraphim are trash and the Asswasher is the single most useless experimental in supcom
Westwood died and Relic fucking sucks now.
Sure, you do have regular entries in franchises like Wargame, but those games suck and it's just a yearly release with one new feature that just splits the playerbase again.
Men of War series went really downhill fast with Vietnam and Assault Squad 2.
>>344234436
>Assault Squad 2.
What don't you like about it?
>>344232728
>what is +1-10
30m games can last 5m
>>344230774
if they actively supported it the way blizzard supports starcraft it would have been great actually.
>>344234302
Are they? The t2 seems pretty fun.
RTS games became about blobbing and APM thanks to those shitheads at Blizzard when they should be about troop movement, cover, and unit/tactics countering.
Maybe DoW III will revitalize the genre if it tries to push hard for these sorts of things.But probably not
>>344234546
Unlocks are gay as fuck
Thing I disliked about most RTS is the typical rush and mass production of usually singular units. I always preferred using a small groups of diverse units to crush medium ais in RA2 but would get swarmed too fast by hard ai because I'm fairly slow.
I liked Company of Heroes a ton because mixed units and placement tend to outdo huge groups of singular units.
Tended to like campaigns more than skirmishes or online as well because of getting out played by twitchier reflexed individuals or people with better micro skills.
I still would love a moba/rts hybrid where there's a base commander and 3-5 players a team control heroes with maps that have resources and shit to claim.
>>344234998
You can't blame Blizzard for this. Company of Heroes, the best RTS game, came out in 2006. Just because Relic fucked up the CoH franchise with shitty expansions, shitty patches, and a shitty sequel doesn't mean that the genre never evolved.
I'll grant you that we got stuck with MOBAs because of the original creep farming shiftest, Warcraft 3, but I still can't blame Blizzard for the terrible decisions of Relic, 1c, and everyone else.
>>344221878
Because they're no fun for most people on a competitive level, but if a competitive level exists, that's what people will play for. In other words, I and a lot of people are just too casual, and your genre isn't entertaining enough to survive like the fighting game community.
>>344222393
Origin had the entire CNC collection for like $5, should've got that instead.
I liked Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak.
>>344235261
>>344235672
Man, Relic really dropped the ball with HW. Probably wan't in their control, that IP has been passed around like a tennis ball.
I'm glad that Gearbox isn't ignoring it. Deserts of Kharak lacked polish, but the campaign managed to capture the feel of the verse.
>>344221878
because people fucking hate strategy.
that's why SC2 was the most popular. It's not a strategy game, it's an APM test. People are obsessed with mastery of "controls" for some retarded reason.
>>344233782
Because those aren't boring. This isn't a normalfag problem.
>>344222234
if not for sc2, rts would already be dead
>>344231781
>>344236126
you can't convince me that something like Supreme Commander or Planetary annihilation is boring.
There's more shit occurring every second than almost any other game in existence. Even visually, there's constant visual bombardment, all the time and even more mental.
it's funny how the most obvious reason why the RTS died is shown in this very thread.
RTS fans are fickle and won't give anything a chance unless it's C&C, AoE or SupCom
>>344236503
Building your base is boring. Counting APM and following build orders is boring. Maintaining resource nodes, upgrade trees and so on is also boring. Smashing your army into the other army is the best part of RTS but getting to that point is fucking tedious and not worth the initial investment.
Petroglyph (old Westwood) has been trying to revitalize the genre for YEARS but nobody is biting for those exact same reasons.
>>344237001
>Smashing your army into the other army is the best part of RTS but getting to that point is fucking tedious and not worth the initial investment.
But that's the payoff you get from executing your plan properly. This is the same problem that sunk Rainbow Six, a constant need for XTREME ACTION and no buildup
>>344236631
I don't really sense that in the RTS community. I feel like the few RTS fans that exist are hungry for RTS.
It's just most people suck at designing them. Plantary annihilation:TITANS is the best RTS made recently and it really has no excuse to be.
I contend it has more to do with public schools and how they teach people to behave. It's not conducive to playing an RTS correctly since it involves the use of logic and strategy.
For example, I see fucking retards not building units when they could be even though it doesn't require any more clicks saying that "I built enough my enemy wont build more!" which is the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.
This isn't a single event by the way, this is a common occurrence for the few young people that play RTS.
>>344236126
>those arent boring
Maybe if you're autistic.
>>344237001
Planetary annihilation doesn't have any of those except extremely rudimentary builds.
Maintaining resource nodes isn't boring since there's constant fights going on and the maintenance is preventing them from dying so I don't understand why you'd dislike constant combat and war.
>>344237001
APM isn't boring.
SupCom has a 2x resource option, and pace settings. Can have t2 in like 3min.
Company of Heroes is hard as fuck. It's not easy keeping track of all this shit happening at once, I'm terrible at managing all my trips. It doesn't help that they barely let you zoom out.
I tried 3 times to get into but I just couldn't, I like the WW2 theme a lot too. The first 3 missions were easy but once they threw me in a real game I was fucked.
What can I do to get better.
>>344237339
Well, at least here on /v/ it feels that way, like hell, i dare anyone posting here to name 10 RTS games on their top of their heads besides Starcraft, C&C, Age of Empires or Sup Com.
most RTS i know are fantasy shit because i love fantasy shit, so i remember
Spellforce
Dragonshard
Armies of exigo
Heroes of Annihilated empire
Paraworld
Battlerealms
BFME 2
Rising Kingdoms
Kingdoms under fire war of heroes
Warlords battlecry
I'm not saying you should play all the RTS out there but hell, it's easy to go back and find something you could actually enjoy if you tried.
>>344225057
Can I skip 1 and go to 2?
MEAN GREEN AND UNSEEN
>>344222234
He's kinda right. RTS games suffered from the "Blizzard effect" before MMOs did. Basically, Blizzard takes a niche genre with a few noteworthy but flawed titles, I.e. Everquest or Command and Conquer. Blizz then makes a polished, streamlined version that becomes very popular. Hundreds of companies with no imagination try to duplicate the success in the field and begin buying up smaller companies or simply making shitloads of "whatever killers" that fail to kill the Blozzard version in the genre. Ultimately, everyone gives up because they can't (or think they can't) beat Blizzard.
The result is a power vacuum in the genre which is occupied chiefly by Blizzard and a few other indie/lesser known devs while the AAA devs have abandoned the genre forever.
I kind of liked RTS but I was awful at multitasking
>>344222437
The class based team shooter genre is already dead. It's basically OW, TF2, and Battlefield. TF2 is a stagnant hatfest and BF is a shit show in almost every way
>>344238225
So what you're saying is that the RTS game market is an RTS itself, and Blizzard's winning?
>>344237738
>Tfw you have friends who play still play supcom
It's easily my favorite game by far.
>tfw sending three mobile factories at four cybran spiderbots
>>344233025
Balancing the game around pros with a trillion APM instead of regular people who just want somethingfun. Starcraft 1 was a straight party game, with gnarly shit like the Defiler that you wouldn't consider causing major upsets in the right player's hands. SC2 is a relative twitchfest with predefined rock-paper-scissors unit balancing. Lots of interface improvements, but it lost that chill party feel, especially with the neo-nazi "one copy per person" thing. Major bitch to try and get friends to play. Spawned copies made Starcraft 1 what it was.
The problems with RTS is that we already have good games and no one can top them.
>>344221878
The genre itself had its heyday back in the late 90's/early 00's and is kind of played out. KKND, C&C, and SC were the real innovating series. There were ton of clones, minor variations, and genre crossovers that tried to extend the genre. Pic related, it takes the standard and bolts on a stock simulator.
The problem with the traditional game play of the RTS game is that it is just so resistant to being consolized without becoming a MOBA. Consoles are lead development platforms today. If the game won't conform to a controller, it won't be made.
>>344237910
>armies of exigo
My Nigerian. I didn't know anybody else ever played that one. Felt like the beautiful bastard child of Starcraft and WC3.
>>344239176
Fallen best faction
And the campaign was fun too, i'm sad they weren't able to do an expansion or something, could have been cool.
Also the underground mechanics were really interesting
>>344237847
Using the grid mode hotkeys in coh2 helps a lot. I fucking hate APM hotkey bullshit, but if reflexes are the problem it really does help. The command bar on the left is really good too. Sorry if I'm just pointing out the obvious.
>>344235672
Playing that at the moment. Pretty fun.
Nobody really talks about the massive clunkers that the genre had. Armor Command put THREEEEEE DEEEEEEEEEEEE ahead of everything else and was an unplayable mess as a result, but dem GRFX tho.
>>344238985
I don't like this mentality
>>344238141
>The allies' accents
The best.
Has anyone here tried homeworld remastered with the new patch yet?
Its fucking awesome. Still needs work, but fixed a lot of things. Sphere formation still needs work, units won't go around a unit when in sphere formation (which is kinda annoying when escorting)
>>344243897
Seems a lot better, the physics based combat was one of the things I loved about the original Homeworld. Recently though I got distracted by DoK.
