>Physics are tied to framerate
I keep hearing this but have no idea what it means, would you mind reiterating?
>>343879873
Try GTA III on PC with something to unlock the FPS. You'll see.
>>343879873
>>343880559
Happens with skyrim too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5dfSmHjq5g
>>343878410
>QTEs are tied to framerate.
>action points are tied to framerate
>physics animations run at 30 fps even if you're playing at 60
>>343878410
How are the jeans being held up?
>>343880739
This is fucking horrible, especially if characters have physics based clothing
>minigame mechanics are tied to framerate
>>343880831
by the framerate
>>343880831
there's a string around its back clearly visible
>Brightness is tied to framerate
>>343880739
AssCreed Syndicate?
>game has massive input lag even with vsync off
>>343880970
BioShock does it too
>>343879873
Physics aren't tied to framerate:
>swing lasts 2 seconds
Physics are tied to framerate:
>swing lasts 25 frames
In the first case, changing the framerate does not affect the swing. In the second case, it does.
>>343880739
>Physics and animation are uncapped but the camera runs at 30 fps
>>343879873
>Ball bounces every X frames
>Increase framerate so that X occurs faster/more frequently
>>343878410
>Weapon fire rate tied to framerate
It was a MMO with huge battles going on
fyi bioshock has a patcher to unlocks physics fps, i dont remember if they made it for 2 or not.
>game has motion blur on by default
>turn it off
>it's still there
>turn it off in ini
>it's not there anymore but the outline of shit still blurs like it's slightly there
>>343878410
Aren't physics and the such being tied to framerate have to do with how they're working their cycles, updating based on how often you think you'll see it? Is there any good reason for this?
>everything in the game runs at 60 fps except for one character
>You HAVE to keep VSync on or the physics engine fucking implodes
>The VSync causes input lag whenever anything even remotely demanding happens
Great job, Bethesda.
>cutscenes run at 30fps but the rest of the game is uncapped
Why, in 2011+5 is it still so difficult to have uncapped frame rates
>Mouse sensitivity
>Low, Medium, High
>>343881162
>Is there any good reason for this?
It's easier to implement than making it independant.
>>343880739
You know that physics go above 60 steps per second? And in every game they're interpolated, so you wouldnt see a difference unless you go down to 10 steps per second. Even them you will only notice input lag from it.
>edit ini to change fov
>resets back when you use a zoom function like a sniper scope
>everything in the game runs at 60 fps except some reloading animations
Fucking Resident Evil 4 remaster on PC. The sounds follow the 60fps framerate too so you hear the CLACK before Leon even pulled the rifle's reloading pin back
>>343881197
>shitty console ports
>Forced reverse mouse acceleration
>mouse pointer has angle snapping like a controller
>>343881158
>outline of shit still blurs like it's slightly there
Most likely FXAA.
>>343881162
it's because they don't want to deal with concurrency
>>343881284
>edit ini to change fov
>sky doesn't render at the sides of the screen
What games get absolutely hilarious at 144fps?
>>343881368
You mean temporal AA
>huge portion of the game that could have been enjoyable ruined because consoles wouldn't be able to keep up with it either due to their hardware or due to the way controllers worked
Guess the game, there's literally thousands.
>>343881257
I'm fairly sure he meant something like what happens in Asscreed unity, where the jiggle physics for the capes and clothes are 30 fps even though everything else isn't.
>>343881176
You can use nvidia inspector to cap the framerate to 60 after disabling vsync, still doesn't excuse Bethesda's caveman coding
>turning off frame limit cause your GPU to go into overdrive
>600+ fps
>locked 30 fps is a stylistic choice
Haha, us gamers right?
>>343881532
>not having a G-sync or Freesync monitor
Jesus christ guys, its 2016.
>>343881532
>61+ FPS
>looks no different than 60 FPS
>capped at 20 fps
>still reads input at 60 fps
feels good man
>>343881594
fuck off back to your ecleb shitpost threads, we're talking about videogames.
>developers patch content out of a game because console can't handle it
>they patch it out of the pc version too
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>343881162
http://gafferongames.com/game-physics/fix-your-timestep/
This article explains it pretty well.
The most naive implementation is just to move an object at a fixed rate each frame. So, if we want to make an object move at 60 m/s, we'd move it one meter each frame and hope the game will run at a stable 60 frames per second.
Another way to do it is to multiply the movement amount by the time since the last update. For example, if it's been 1/60 seconds since the last frame and we want the object to move at 60 m/s, we'll move the it 60 * 0.0166 meters.
That's also not a very good way to do it, because it may lead to inconsistent or weird physics behavior. If for some reason one frame happens to take 10x the time it's supposed to, objects may end up moving too much and going through/inside other solid object. Due to this, there's usually some sort of limit as to how much the game tries to compensate for a too low framerate (and that type of logic is probably used in most of these games where "physics are tied to framerate").
>edit ini to change fov to whatever you like
>game uses vertical fov
>>343881835
>change your fov
>instead of increasing your fov it just applies a fisheye effect that actually doesn't even increase the amount that is on your screen
>>343881835
God bless the guy who made an automated calculator.
Pure autism
>>343882013
Don't reply to this thread ever again.
>>343881806
New Vegas, I had to install a mod to get all the missing NPCs and shit back.
>>343881257
>You know that physics go above 60 steps per second?
Can you name a single game that does this? There's usually no point in updating the physics faster than it can be displayed to the player.
>>343882054
What about me
>>343881679
>>looks no different
smoother image is definitely different to choppy image, you cannot notice this on a still but you definitely can tell in movement, especially in a game like ut
>>343882191
Who the fuck are you?
>>343882286
Big Pancake Horton
>>343881465
Many of those games wouldn't have made back thier budget (let alone the increased budget of making fancier things) without console sales. Piracy and a tendency to wait until it's 90% off has killed Publishers interest in making PC exclusives.
>>343882056
Was there a substantial amount of cut content? I recently picked up NV from the summer sale after playing it on PS3.
>game has mouse accel
>game\data\cutscenes
>20gb of bink of movies
>>343882134
Games that go really fast, like Trackmania or Ballistics, for example.
These games need to update mroe often than 60Hz because you could easily end up clipping through a wall if you crash into one too fast.
>>343882354
I don't give a shit if a shitty ass game made by shit-smeared developers makes its shitty ass money back so they can shit out another greasy fucking turd a year later.
>>343882375
>In 720p
>Compressed out the ass
>Doesn't even look better than the in-games graphics
>>343878410
that's not an issue if they use delta time
>>343882286
No one cared who he was until he put on the mask
>>343882358
Objects in the game world, NPCs (mostly unnamed ones but some had unique dialog), stuff like skeletons lying around etc.
Also this was not one of the things that was patched out after release but Freeside was made into different districts because consoles (and older pcs at the time) couldn't handle it, but you can find mods that remove the barriers and make it into a single zone
>>343879873
Dark Souls 2 initial PC release durability bug is probably the worst example I can think of because it actually had bad gameplay implications
Normally you would code weapon durability degradation to how many hits you do, but for some reason Dark Souls 2 had some really fucked up spaghetti code where It was tied to how many frames the weapon came into contact with an object that caused weapon damage
So If you a really strong PC, unlocked the framerate and went up to a wall and attacked your weapon would be broken in a few seconds
>gameplay is in 60 fps
>cutscenes are in 30 fps
>cut-scene-to-gameplay transitions are painfully obvious
>>343882646
>tfw could swing malformed skull exactly 8 times before it broke
>>343882638
>Freeside was made into different districts because consoles (and older pcs at the time) couldn't handle it, but you can find mods that remove the barriers and make it into a single zone
God damn, thank you so much for telling me this!
>>343882584
Isn't delta time unreliable?
>>343882891
if you know math why would it be
>>343882379
>These games need to update mroe often than 60Hz because you could easily end up clipping through a wall if you crash into one too fast.
Ok, so you have no idea what you're talking about. There are tons of different ways to prevent tunneling (continuous collision detection, different kinds of sweeping algorithms, raycasting). I find it really hard to believe that those games would use a >60 Hz update rate just to work around their physics engine being so broken that it can't deal with tunneling.
There are valid reasons to use a higher frequency (more accurate physics integration for instance), but preventing tunneling is rarely one of them.
>>343882972
Computers can only use a discrete amount of values.
>>343883045
???
>>343881134
>Enemy fire rate tied to framerate
Fucking Valkyria Chronicles
>>343881465
>huge portion of the game that could have been enjoyable ruined because the vast majority of PC users are still running literal toasters and whine when they can't reach 1080/60 on grandma's laptop
>>343883241
like?
>game doesn't let you change your field of view
>it has no slider
>it's an ini or console commandthat doesn't work
>or it considers changing your field of view a cheat
>>343878410
>>343883190
>play games on PC
>later hear that higher fps makes the game harder
>QTEs are faster
>enemies shoot faster
>parry windows are shorter
>half the i-frames on dodges
The true hard mode.
>>343883162
For example, 1/6 won't return 0.16666[...], it will return the value closest to this given the variable type being used to store the result. This causes a difference %, which causes unreliability.
>>343883284
http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Free%20to%20Play/
>>343883446
>implying any of those would be enjoyable regardless of how they ran
Keep grasping at straws consolefaggot. You are and forever will be the nigger of video games.
>>343882972
See >>343881818
Deltatime may work well enough if the framerate stays at a reasonable level, but you cant just multiply the velocities by some arbitrary value and expect the physics to behave consistently.
In multiplayer games the problem is even worse: if one client playing at 60 PFS is moving an object 0.3 units during frame one and 0.2 units during frame two, while another client playing at 30 FPS moves moves the same object 0.5 during one frame, their objects will end up being in different positions.
>game plays differently with AA or horizontal sync on/off
>>343883612
I think we can all agree that physics engineers are fucking math wizards.
>>343883529
I'm not even saying consoles are a part of it, dipshit, I'm saying that games are still being held back by kids playing on old hardware without the money to upgrade. F2P games are just the start, take a look at the huge amount of PC exclusive games that are running on last gen engines. And it's not limited to indies, AAA devs are scared shitless of making high end taxing PC exclusives unless they're getting crowdfunding.
>>343882715
>running game at 4K 60fps
>cutscenes are 720p low bitrate 30fps movies rendered at console settings with no antialiasing
>>343883371
Floating point inaccuracies are definitely an issue (especially in multiplayer games), but a bigger issue is that physics engines won't necessarily behave the same when using a variable time step.
Making the physics engine move an object 5 meters doesn't necessarily lead to the same outcome as moving it 2.5 meters twice. It may end up touching some object after the first frame, causing friction or making it bounce, it may collide with something it wouldn't have if it was moved 5 meters at one go, some physics joints might be updated one extra time and cause the object to change it's velocity or orientation... Luckily there's a somewhat simple solution to this (http://gafferongames.com/game-physics/fix-your-timestep/), but apparently some devs are too stupid or lazy to anything about it.
>>343882375
>58 gb installation size
>39 gb of movies
>>343878410
> Minigames and objectives tied to CPU speed
Fuck you Sierra.
>>343884415
>Entire game tied to CPU speed
Thanks SR2.
>game has a huge labyrinth that you have to clear in one run without leavin/dying
>the boss at the end is the most difficult one in the game
>the game loads the graphics, sound and effects of his abilities only after the uses them
>this slows the game down or all PC down to 0 FPS
>boss has 6 different attacks
Yeah no, fuck you
>>343883241
fucking wow. People cried like a bitch when blizzard finally put in better models because their toaster from 2004 might not handle it.
>>343881465
biocock. You stuff your face with crisps because there is no inventory
>>343881835
Im having a quantum chemistry test soon and that dirac notation makes me feel sick. Send help
>>343880739
Bioshock on PC holy fuck was it so noticeable in that game, it looked like complete ass
>>343883529
>Stardust.
>antialiasing: on/off
>graphics: low/high
>>343884917
>On
>It's FXAA
>>343880739
I think that Demon's and Dark Souls were like that.
But the games already looked like ass by being on old consoles so it was easier to accept it.
>Framerate
IRL has exactly 61
>>343880603
Man I thought that was the fault of mods when I played it, so I wasted like a whole day to try to fix it and only find out I had to lock the fps to 60
>>343885014
shameful post, please delete it
>>343885014
You can't see more than 30 anyway
>run game
>its some shit low res
>go into options
>gamma and brightness
>nothing more
And dropped
>>343885014
>>343885147
>>343885167
>>343885297
I'm pretty sure we have infinitely unlimited amounts of finite frames to experience on a limitless level on a limited daily basis.
>can run game flawlessly at 144fps locked
>cutscene runs at 30fps
why
>>343885372
there is a plancktime and a Plancklength so it cannot be infinite framerate
>>343878410
From the thumbnail, I thought this was something entirely different.
Physics tied to framerate is only bad on PC, and you all complain because most PC games are console ports
>antialiasing on/off
>it's just a gaussian blur effect
>motion blur on/off
>it's just a trail of previous frames
>>343880559
I googled around and I can find is "It glitches" but nobody says what actually happens and I can't find any footage. Mind elaborating?
>>343880659
>trying to button mash Bayonetta's QTEs on Ps3
![196yn7chcunm3jpg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WX9S9ir.jpg "196yn7chcunm3jpg[1].jpg")
>HUD and menus don't scale with resolution
>>343882247
Higher framerates over 60 also provide a lower input delay
>>343885910
The physics basically just go faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4EHjFkVw-s
>Everything runs at 60 fps except for one thing.
God
fucking
dammit
>>343886240
At 60Hz the input delay caused by the update rate is at most 16 milliseconds, does it really make any difference if it's lower than that?
>>343886440
Sure, if you don't play scrub games.
>>343885483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time
>Because the Planck time comes from dimensional analysis, which ignores constant factors, there is no reason to believe that exactly one unit of Planck time has any special physical significance. Rather, the Planck time represents a rough time scale at which quantum gravitational effects are likely to become important.
According to this it's not necessarily the smallest possible amount of time.
>>343886292
Thanks anon
>>343886523
I honestly find that hard to believe since most humans have reaction times measured in hundreds of milliseconds and display lag adds dozens of milliseconds to the total input lag
>>343886570
>[clarification needed]
>>343886292
>bethesda still using their engine from 2001
lazy faggots
>>343884275
>Luckily there's a somewhat simple solution to this (http://gafferongames.com/game-physics/fix-your-timestep/), but apparently some devs are too stupid or lazy to anything about it.
>It’s much more realistic to say that your simulation is well behaved only if delta time is less than or equal to some maximum value. You can use mathematics to find this exact delta time value given your simulation (there is a whole field on it called numerical analysis, try researching “interval arithmetic” as well if you are keen), or you can arrive at it using a process of experimentation, or by simply tuning your simulation at some ideal framerate that you determine ahead of time. This is usually significantly easier in practice than attempting to make your simulation bulletproof at a wide range of delta time values.
Umm, this IS what almost all devs are implementing.
>>343886826
>but apparently some devs are too stupid or lazy to anything about it.
Emphasis on "some".
>>343886776
Yes, because there is no theory of quantum gravity yet that would clarify what the timescale for quantum gravitational effects is.
The point is, we don't know what the smallest possible amount of time is if such a thing exists. Planck time is just a handy unit used by theoretical physicists.
>>343886826
It is, but as said in the article, it can cause many kinds of issues and a much better way to achieve framerate-independent physics is to use a fixed timestep and alter the frequency at which the physics simulation is progressed
>>343885910
you can die from stepping off the sidewalk in GTA3, in SA there are random spots that instantly kill you. Friction in boats get calculated every frame in VC, if you play with 60fps ou get twice the fraction so you're going half as fast, with a high enough framerate you can't move the boat anymore. There is some more tuff related to dying, helicopters, swiming and some other shit
>>343886935
But some of the companies being complained about do that very thing, e.g Rockstar and Bethesda.
For example, Bethesda caps their physics at 60Hz but the framerate can be anything below 60Hz without it messing up the physics. The issue people seem to have is that they can't increase the framerate above 60Hz but if the rest of the processing is capped at 60Hz there is little benefit in doing so even if it didn't screw things up in the process.
Even the "super programming wizard" John Carmack recommends capping at a reasonable tick rate and states there is no benefit in having a framerate higher than the tick rate.
And you can't just have an arbitrarily high tick rate, physics starts to become wildly inconsistent when you do that unless you make a very robust physics system, which will have an increased processor load.
These developers are not incompetent, they are doing the best they can with their limited resources.
>>343887680
>if the rest of the processing is capped at 60Hz there is little benefit in doing so even if it didn't screw things up in the process.
How about the fact that the game will overall be smoother to look at? Assuming you have a >60Hz monitor of course.
Why haven't mathematicians solved the n-body problem yet?
>>343887958
It will not look smoother if the physics and game logic are updated at a fixed rate of 60Hz. There's no point in rendering the game faster than 60Hz if nothing on the screen changes between those frames.
>>343887680
As long as theres some method to interpolate between tics so shit works nice at 144, even if logic is still running at 60.
Or hell, 35 in Doom's case
>>343887981
I dunno, why don't you give it a shot? There's probably a Nobel Prize in it for you.
>>343887958
Rendering is not as independent as you people think.
All this shit, rendering, physics, game logic, audio, etc., has to be synchronized and you have to carefully control and cap that processing. If you have a higher framerate than the other processing can keep up with do you know what you get a lot of the time? A duplicate frame. No benefit at all.
>>343888161
Even if physics and logic operate at 60Hz, you can still have an uncapped viewpoint, animations, effect, and basically anything that is visible, aka what is relevant to having a higher framerate.
>>343888348
You can, but what's the point if everything in the game world is updated at a frequency of 60Hz? Rendering the same exact view multiple times is just a waste of GPU resources
>>343888348
>basically anything that is visible
That includes physics obviously, which has an effect on all visible objects.
Honestly, there is not a lot you can decouple from the framerate in games. AI is probably the only one that is reasonable to run completely irrelevant of framerate.
>>343878410
What's wrong with that? Are your reflexes too shit you can't play the game at the intended framerate?
>>343888274
I'm shiiieeeet at maths, when it comes to maths I'm like an idea guy.
Like, I can imagine something like having it so that if you want to plot the position of one body out of three you treat the other two as a pair since momentum shouldn't be treated any differently, but from a quick bit of math I know that something's wrong with that since I get different results if I merge two bodies into one.
>>343885989
I don't think I've ever seen a game do this before. Have any examples? I wanna see if I missed it myself in some game I may have played.
>>343886292
>Bethesda is developing official Vive support for this
45 FPS with re-projection confirmed
>>343881594
Haha, us 4chinners right?
>>343878410
are u talking shit about quake kiddo?
>>343886749
It's not really about reaction time, though. It's about how immediately your physical input causes something to happen on screen.
>>343888869
That's kinda what you do when solving the 2-body problem, there is a trick to reduce the calculation into solving the motion of a single "reduced mass" and from the result you can easily get the motion of either of the two masses.
But when you have more than two bodies interacting it somehow becomes much more difficult.
>There is only one graphics option
>Its a slider
>change graphic settings
>nothing changes
>>343889749
>Changes will be applied after you restart the game
>>343881532
>game's menus and loading screens have unlocked framerates
>gpu goes EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at thousands of frames per second
>>343889952
It's like they're taking us for fools and haven't played countless other games that change the setting instantly.
>>343888889
I think what he's referring to is the "shrinking" HUD.
Things like the menu, text, etc. in games are often bitmaps which cannot be scaled without introducing artifacts. They have a fixed resolution so you have to have multiple versions, one for each rendering resolution the game supports. If you, for example, use a bitmap designed for 720p resolution in 1080p resolution the result is it displays at half it intended dimension.
This used to be a real problem with PC games back in the early 2000s when games would support rendering resolutions ranging from 640x480 to 1600x1200. Often at very high resolutions you'd find text would be too small to read. These days there are far less resolutions supported so you don't see it as much but it does still happen.
>>343888889
System Shock 2, but you can fix it in the GOG version
>Game runs at 30 FPS
>Enemies are animated at, like, 10 FPS
>Can't tell when the fuck they're attacking
Fucking Bubsy 3D
>>343888889
nice digits man
