Wizardry IV
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
I heard a few people talking up this game one day, and I'm a bit curious about it now.
What do you guys say?
I've never played any of the Wizardry games, but I've enjoyed stuff like Etrian odyssey and Dungeon Travelers.
There's a good chance you won't get out of the first room
>>343519029
Is it that tough?
You should be able to grind in it, no?
hardest game of all time
>>343519474
There is no grinding. You level up whenever you go up a floor. Werdna is forever a mage with all the advantages and disadvantages the class has. You can summon monsters, but you have no control over them.
Oh yea and you're being chased by a ghost in real time (e.g. Not in a menu) who will instakill you of he gets close
>>343519474
No.
http://lparchive.org/Wizardry-IV/
>>343519701
>chased by a ghost in real time
I think that only happens in the Apple II version, in the others he moves when you move or every turn while in battle.
>>343519782
Oh...
That doesn't sound like fun.
I'll just read the LP instead of pull the arm of a slot machine.
>>343520213
Try the Wiz VI~VIII trilogy if you like dungeon crawlers.
>>343519782
Wasn't there a remake of IV for PS1 and Windows though? I think it's called New Age of Llylgamyn
I've been thinking about playing the Wizardry series for some time now. Are the the SNES remakes of I-II-III actually good? I just picked that one because it looks pretty neat
>>343520819
>New Age of Llylgamyn
Does it have automapping though? I'm willing to try these games but my autism level isn't quite high enough to draw my own maps
>>343521128
Drawing your own maps is the fun part of these games.
I really encourage you to map at least the first floor for getting the feel of it.
>>343521395
Don't get me wrong I understand that it's supposed to get you immersed in exploration but I'm just not feeling it, you know.
>>343521128
>Does it have automapping though?
Looks like it does
https://youtu.be/EABVr-Tl3KQ?t=204
>>343518342
You'll need to go to /vr/ to talk about good games like this.
>>343520819
yeah there is.
they made it easier i believe, but i haven't tried it to see the differences
there's also lylgamyn saga which is the first three games, that one is in english and does have auto map
>>79517424
>Etrian odyssey and Dungeon Travelers.
wizardry clones for babies
wizardry 4 is completely different than your typical wizardry and is not only THE hardest rpg ever, it is also completely unfair
>>343521128
>New Age of Llylgamyn
this is a good way to play classic wizardry without with minor frustration it's jap only but has options for everything in English besides the the item descriptions and an automap you are right
playing 6,7 or 8 first isn't a terrible idea either though they moved on from the typical formula especially 8
not quite a review but the guy just goes over a bunch of stuff in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQz_i6chNgY
>>343524651
don't be mean anon.
anyways
wizardry is the grand daddy of all vidya rpg's.
basically the progenitor.
games still take after it even if most people don't know it
>>343524578
>there's also lylgamyn saga which is the first three games
Yeah, I meant that one. Apparently it's been released on SNES and PS1. Is there a difference between the those versions though? Looks like PS1 just has the option to change to 8bit graphics
>>343525041
it's funny actually.
kinda like how people say that anime was originally influenced by disney, modern jrpg's started out as modified wizardry games
>>343525258
the snes version requires a spell to see the map, and you can't see yourself, so you have to remember where you are at all times.
psx version has regular automap.
i don't remember if you have to use a spell, it's been a while.
being able to stuff it on a psp is nice though.
>>343525041
japan is obsessed with wizardry it's kinda weird that it died in the west and most people only think of jrpgs as something original but they really all stem from the wizardry games some more obvious than others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab08qIbo9e4
>>343525258
lylgamyn saga is probaly the best version of the original 3 games
another thing worth mentioning is the snes version of wizardry 6 is a little better than the dos version and has an automap but obviously you won't be able to transfer your saves to 7 then 8 if you are planning on doing that
>>343525041
I have absolutely no idea what is going on on that page.
>>343519782
It gets worse than that. There's even puzzles where you need to know actual pop culture jokes. Like Monty Python and the Holy Grail and comic book knowledge. And all well before the internet so good luck if you happen to level watch or read those things.
Wizardry 1-3 are fun for the SNES personally. And if you are someone that needs it use save states before you rest to level up because you will lose stats on a level. And just hit reset when someone dies because at higher levels the cost is just too high and if it fails they are dead forever.
>>343526576
>you will lose stats on a level
What?
>>343527175
you can lose stats instead of gaining them when you level up
6-7 are the best in the series.
>>343527175
Don't fuck with Wizardry.
Actually if you sleep too much your character ages and can become too old to fight.
>>343518342
First off you will have no idea how to leave the tutorial dungeon if you never played the first one. 2nd you might want to try something like Dark Spire to see if you have the mettle for something like Wizardry
>>343527449
arent those real time though? That stuff triggers me
>>343527175
>Anon has leveled up!
>+1 HP
>-1 STR
>-1 IQ
>-1 PIE
>-1 VIT
>-1 AGI
>-1 LUC
I was playing Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord on DOSBox some time ago and one of my characters that had 0 IQ lost another point when he leveled up. I checked his stats and he had 34 IQ. The cap for every stat besides HP is 18.
>>343527816
no, only wizardry 8 has a continuous mode that still functions in turns but you input commands as you go with attacking or whatever being the default command for characters who can do it
So I bought wizardry 6,7, and 8 off steam in a whim any thing I should know? I don't know shit about wizardry.
>>343528293
Read the manual
>>343528293
If you start from Wizardry 6:
>get a bard
>get a bard
And last but not least:
>get a bard
>>343528293
make sure you read the manual for 6 and 7
8 can be played without knowing anything at all
just get the widescreen patch and wizfast mod that can increase combat speed beyond the usual limit
>>343525989
the guy who made dragon quest and the guy who founded chunsoft freaking out over wizardry
Are the Ultima games as bullshit as the Wizardry games are sounding?
>>343529495
Ultima 7 is legit one of the best games ever made.
The series is clunky, but is pretty fair (aside from food bullshit in 1), but if you can get past the graphics they are must play RPGs.
>>343529495
I guess akalabeth is a little similar
>>343530123
Ultima 7 also has the worst combat ever made.
>>343518342
Ah yes, the hardest game ever made. Moreso than even Battletoads
>>343530123
Should I get the SNES or PC version?
>>343530705
>SNES or PC
>SNES
>PC
>>343531057
DOS is PC
>>343530603
Ultima always had bad combat. And inventory management really put the nail in the coffin for me. I want to love Ultima but there are too many issues with each game for me.
i'll never understand the perspective of the ultima games it looks so fucking weird
underworld is great though
>>343531057
For a lot of old crpgs the Japanese SNES ports have aged much better than the originals. Dont know about ultima, however.
Should get 6-7 or 6-8?
>>343531579
mostly because nes/snes ports seem to use the same engine everytime.
>>343531763
6-8. Why would you skip out on the best Wizardry game?
>>343518342
Wizardry 8 is damn good.
The series is what Legend of Grimrock was paying homage to. They are first person party dungeon crawlers with strong customization and great design. As RPGs they're meh. The stories are never very good and the choice and consequence narrative play common in RPGs is nearly absent in wizardry. It's a series the Japanese strangely fell in love with. So EO bares its legacy.
I recommend 8 for most first timers. It's an easy to grasp game with some modern quality of life improvements over the first games.
>>343532123
Grimrock is based off of Dungeon Master not Wizardry.
>As RPGs they're meh
lol
guy from yesterday here.
just posting for those who don't know.
throb of the demons heart translation just got released
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2061/
>>343531763
buy them? jsut get all 3 on steam it's only 3 bucks
>>343532123
no, grimrock is based on dungeon master or eye of the beholder series which are good games too but nothing like wizardry or might and magic
>>343532498
thanks senpai
>Play Wizardry IV
>You end up murdering LARPers, children and the developer's weeaboo self-insert during the last third of the game
>I've never played any of the Wizardry games
Then buckle up, these games are autistically hard and complex, not meme hard like Dark Souls or Super Meat Boy, I mean like _HARD_ hard.
You'll come back crying, I've seen so many people break over this game.
>>343521658
This is one of the remakes. The original doesn't.
https://youtu.be/cu7P8iHlclw?t=12m51s
>>343532974
>those maps
holy shit
Funny how after all these years Ultima 1-3 aren't worth playing because they don't offer anything interesting but Wiz 1-3 are as playable as they were at release.
>>343532704
Hawkwind is the best one literally a Mary Sue self-insert.
>>343519782
For reference, here's this about Wizardry 1.
>>343532704
Best part is, the self insert is killed by the weakest summon in the game.
I read up on more of Wizardry and its influence and legacy.
Never have I held respect for a game I don't wish to play.
At the same time, it's kinda saddening to see that this kind of thing would be pretty much impossible in today's gaming market.
Any other Wizardry players here? Which ones are your favorite? Mine is 6.
>>343534227
They are still making games like this though, just look at Stranger at the sword city.
>>343534227
releasing games like the first three without the modern things that make it easier to deal with would definitely be a bad idea, but japan still releases these types of games to some success
>>343534227
just play dark spire
>>343534805
>only weeb shit
Okey dokey.
I'll call you when I want to fuck cartoons.
>>343534805
This pic should be labeled: How to tell the difference between moeshit and a real dungeon crawler
A: Stranger of Sword City is a real dungeon crawler, the rest are all moeshit
The PC Engine CD port of Wizardry IV is the only one that keeps the essence of the game intact (outside of the DOS original), though it removes the first puzzle and just has a door you can leave the first room with.
It's still really hard though, and the only upgraded port of the original Wizardry IV that exists.
Has anyone played the Saturn/PS1 version of Wizardry 1-3?
>>343534554
I really like Wiz 1 the most to this day. Because of it's straightforwardness.
>>343534805
mostly on the handhelds now though of course.
which is more than fine with me now.
>>343535034
anon stranger and operation abyss are pretty much the same games with different settings.
>>343534227
Dungeon crawlers still exist in the west and the east can't stop making wiz1-5 clones.
>>343534227
they live on through jap clones like etrian odyssey, sword city, elminage etc
the IP was bought by japs after sirtech shutdown and they made some games with the wizardry brand on consoles and an mmo, I dunno what the deal is now since nightdive are the ones publishing it on gog/steam
>>343534805
>>343535034
try eliminage then.
make sure you get a download with the patch for it though
>>343534805
>all those disgusting weeb crawlers
>>343535531
Beggars can't be choosers.
>>343535007
if you want DPRGs pantyquests are pretty much all you get these days
>>343534227
It's just reloading til RNG doesn't fuck you. It's significant for influencing the following games people created but I wouldn't say it's something that should be recreated.
>>343535345
tale of the forsaken land is great too.
>>343535720
More like wanted a game without naked underage loligirls and the general animefaggotry.
>>343535667
Good thing there's quite a bit of choice on PC both old and new. Most dungeon crawlers are indie though.
How is Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls?
>>343536068
whoa shitlord, get your standards outta my genre
>>343534805
Everybody should play DT2.
It's so fucking good.
The only flaw I could see some people having with it is the automapping, or I guess if you're still stuck in 13 year old "FUCK ANIME" phase.
I never liked mapping though and the DT2 postgame dungeons are so ridiculously gay that I wouldn't want to map them ever. I dealt with it for wiz games and EO etc but dt2's postgame maps are so jam-packed with teleporters and one-way walls and areas where you don't have map access at all and parts where you have all three crammed together where half of the walls are invisible until you pass through them or are hidden doors that I just don't even want to think about it. Manual mapping in DT2 would ruin everything.
>>343536485
>DRPG
>cant custom build my own party
Into the trash it went. the terrible writing was the icing on the cake
>>343536047
>>343535345
so should I be playing the Europoor one of the Burgerland one? I usual default to Burger for 60Hz
>>343536661
There's 15 characters, 3 of each base class. It's not that bad on that front.
The only terrible thing about the writing is that Fried never stopped being mean to Conette. It was otherwise generic as hell.
>muh storying about a DRPG is pretty suspect.
>>343536920
when the characters are massive chatterboxes its pretty bad when everything that comes out of their mouths is liquid shit
>DRPG
why do you fags always make new acronyms for already established genres
>>343537267
So that we can better identify the elements of a specific subtype that we particularly like and therefore quickly find other games that are very similar and share them with others who also like that subtype.
Why do you insist on sucking cocks?
>>343537267
it's easier than people complaining about them being wrpg's or jrpg's
>>343535213
Something not being moeshit is dependent on one thing: the capability to play the game without a Certain Kind of art style intruding into it.
>>343537157
you can always turn off the voices.
you can also just turn off the male leads voice, because he honestly sounds like a faggot
>>343518342
>Wiz4
damn son are you suicidal?
>>343536209
You think that retarded troll looks better than a moeshit uguuface? They're both awful
>>343536661
WizIV had no character creation and it's one of the most interestingly designed dungeon crawlers ever.
>>343538228
If it's made in the west,
it's a WRPG
If it's masde in Japan,
it's a JRPG
>>343534805
Why does the Vita get all the cool games!
>>343538313
that's never bothered me as long as the game is thoroughly wizardry otherwise.
>>343538521
that will never be enough and the complaining will never end.
this is easier
>>343538418
7 mages is a mobile game
>>343538521
Stop.
Any fags excited for Bard's Tale 4? Seems like most people don't even know it exists.
>>343520213
who said it will be fun you faggot
>tfw people ITT don't know Woodhead is a weeb
>>343538737
only one i played is the one with cary elwes, but i know it started as a similar type of game.
i'll keep an eye on it
>>343534805
>>343534034
which you have to learn by reading the name of the monster from your maps you drew.
>>343519782
Nothing about that sounds even remotely fun.
PC gaming began in the 90s if you ask me.
Too much choice of video games, now I'll never be able to play anything
>>343533713
he's also in the ova
>>343518342
Literally impossible unless you've played the first 3.
4 was made for people who played the first three, and the first puzzle is basically checking if you have.
the mmo had a pretty badass opening.
captured the feel of the series i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkVOcMsoLps
>>343539547
Fun is subjective, whatever is fun to you it will be lame for someone else.
>>343539994
>party gets wrecked
>that mad dash to get out of the dungeon
good times
>>343539994
How is it?
>>343540608
ded
>>343536661
This shit right here is why I absolutely can't enjoy most JRPGs
>MC is a teenager/young adult and always ALWAYS wields a sword
>accompanied by a beefcake, mage and a cleric
>can't customize the party at all, bar equipment that only changes stats
>all for the sake of a shitty story
>>343540053
Obviously, but I'm sure most people would rather play something skill-based than a glorified luck game.
>>343540608
it was interesting, but i only got to play it for a day before they shut down the english server.
instead of most mmo's, you ran around and manually controlled physical attacks with skills and magic as hotbuttons.
also had permadeath, but it was kind of a non issue.
you could also attack other players
>>343540896
sounds nothing like wizardry
>>343540896
Was it like DayZ with ganksquads going around murdering everyone in sight?
>>343540805
well it's a good thing that DT2 doesn't have any of that.
>>343541116
well the game was pretty much dead when i played.
there were apparently people dedicated to that though.
they weren't allowed in most towns though because breaking the law and all.
they were essentially bandits, which i thought was neat
>>343538490
Interesting doesn't always mean good or fun.Wizardry 4 is not fun even though it's "good"
>>343541419
indeed.
the game excells at what it does.
it's just not fun unless you happen to be a masochist
>>343534805
What about non-vita crawlers? I'm tempted to pick up a cheap used one now though.
>playing Wizardry VI
>get to the catapult that you have to fix
>finally fix it
>think I have to set it up so I can load it with a boulder first
>do so
>IT FLINGS ME INTO THE ABYSS AND KILLS MY ENTIRE PARTY
>>343539972
Wasn't the first puzzle in that game so ridiculously hard that future copies of the game came with a sealed envelope that contained a walkthrough of just that puzzle?
>>343542016
Grimrock 1/2
The Quest
Elminage Gothic
7 Mages
Lords of Xulima
Those are all pretty new modern ones. You should pick up the Might and Magic 1-6 pack and the Dark Savant Trilogy from GOG if you want some GOAT crawlers.
>>343542112
Yes. The unsealed envelope is actually a collector's item because it's so rare.
>>343542459
I mean the sealed envelope. Fucking everyone and their mother opened the thing.
>Wizardry, Ultima and Might & Magic all had sudden occurrences of sci-fi at varying points
Why was this so popular?
>>343542831
Because the games were made by nerds.
>>343542831
All fantasy went into space at some point in the 80s.
>>343542831
Might and Magic was always sci-fi and Ultima had it early on.
>>343542831
Because fantasy suddenly turning to sci fi is the coolest shit inn the world.
>>343542831
>Might & Magic
>Varying Points
Literally EVERY single might and magic had sci-fi in it.
What are The best versions of the early Wizardry games? I have read that the ps1 Legacy of Llylgamyn is supposed to be pretty nice.
>>343543076
>tfw forge town never ever
>>343543156
1-6 except for 4: SNES unless you want to import your 6 party. Everything else is best on the PC.
>>343542831
Because is cool as fuck and even modern rpg series do it in some way or another.
>>343543156
The SNES or PSX versions, mostly PSX as the SNES games have some bugs.
>>343542619
People just wanted to start the game properly rather than bang the walls of the starting room forever.
>>343543006
>There's a Kilrathi fighter in 7
>>343542016
eliminage origins and class of herores on the psp.
alsp despite what some will say, etrian odyssey on the ds and 3ds very much counts.
>>343531579
Ultima ports are pretty bad unlike the Wizardry ports that have (in my opinion) better art, music and atmosphere than the original versions, also menus are more easier to navigate.
>>343533851
Is this encounter even winnable ?
>>343532123
Legend of Grimrock is based on Dungeon Master, a real time dungeon crawler with more emphasis on puzzle solving and environmental interaction than combat.
>>343545220
Ultima 3 on NES was alright
>Became just another Dragon Quest clone
That's seriously funny as fuck.
Also Ultima 4 is really when it got good and the SMS version of it is still considered the best version of that game.
>>343534805
>Only Vita
What about 3ds titles?
>>343519029
>>343519474
I did a long time ago
>>343546082
etrian odyssey
didn't know anyone played these games.
Do any games in the series hold up today?
>>343546484
they're fun games, but there are better games to be playing. for their time they were great.
>>343546484
it mostly depends on how you like old school rpg's, but i personally like them
>>343538737
The combat system sounds pretty interesting, I really hope it ends up being good because it sounds like a good evolution of the average turn based rpg combat.
Any other good, notable 80's WRPG's besides Ultima and Wizardry? I don't know much from that era, or scene. All I've heard of is Wasteland and Bard's Tale.
>>343546781
More '90s than '80s but Might and Magic is great.
>>343543184
>People got mad at this.
>>343547004
fags that never played the mainline games
>>343546082
Crimson Shroud might count, and Unchained Blades, though that was also for the PSP.
>>343519782
>>343533851
Posts like these genuinely fascinate me because of how fucking impossible it makes these games sound.
Literally how do you beat these games if every other encounter is 16 enemies who one-hit kill you, etc.? I can't wrap my head around it.
>>343547198
>They listened to those fags
>>343547331
Me too, man. And it makes you feel like "Why do I even exist why there are people walking this Earth that beat these games"? After reading these images I always feel very inadequate.
>>343535971
>reloading
Old Wizardry games auto-save though. That's what makes them so hard.
>>343547331
You know how enemy ninjas can behead your characters? Your ninjas and samurais can behead enemies. And if that other post is correct, your warrior should be able to attack 16 times per turn. You also have mages who can nuke whole groups of enemies etc.
Also, old school dungeon crawlers had plenty of encounters you had to run away from, you actually learn that during your playthrough.
Off topic, but you might like pic related.
>>343547389
>they were a minority and the devs knew it
>they still changed it because "not enough pro forge responses"
>>343547331
Wizardry is not a shitty Final Fantasy game. Status effects are extremely powerful.
>>343547331
Wizardry 4 is not made for humans.
>>343546082
EO is pretty much the only one that gets localized.
Damn. I used to have a picture of a juornal where a psychologist tried to communicate with a kid and he refused to talk with him about the problems he had.
So he booted up wizardry which he recently bought and they played together. He asked the kid about how he set up his team and how he planned the dungeon crawling. Then at the end of the article he thinks that videogames might be the new thing for adults to get closer to kids and their problem.
How hard are this game compared to say Strange Journey
>>343548790
Much much much harder. SMT took almost all of its inspiration from Wizardry, especially the summoning demons part which was effectively IV's core mechanic, but it's a much easier series than Wizardry on the whole.
>play Wizardry IV
>expect a hard dungeon crawl with a throwaway plot
>the ending istryhard god isn't real preachingDidn't expect that from a game where you have priests that cast legit miracles and churches bestowing magical powers
>>343548962
>Digital Devil Story 1987
>Wizardry IV 1987
SMT only took inspiration from maybe the three first games. Please don't talk about things you don't know about.
>>343549283
The summoning mechanic of WizIV were known for years. The game was notoriously delayed time after time.
>>343547331
Ailments actually work in these games, so you'll try to paralyze, mute or put each line to sleep then your front line attack the ninjas and the nightstalkers (the most dangerous, since ninjas can insta-kill and nightstalkers can paralyze with normal attacks) while your backline nukes the demons. The ogres aren't as dangerous but they can put your party to sleep.
Or you run away. Or you get wiped out. Or you use the spell that teleports you back to town but make you lose all your gear and money. Or you HAMAN/MAHAMAN and pray.
>>343549283
>>343549449
All JRPGs trace their roots back to Wizardry, so he's right about that. Megami Tensei was originally based on a novel series, however, so it's very possible that demon summoning did not come from Wizardry IV
>yfw Hawkwind is of evil alignment. and not because he's evilbut of because of his creator is a disgusting slef-inserting powergammer.
>>343549743
probably the novels are centered all about that
>and man they were bad
Has anyone here actually beat Wiz IV and if so, do you have autism?
>>343549829
>and man they were bad
Explain.
Conceptually, it's really cool.
But anyone who plays this game and says "Yeah! This game is awesome! You should totally play it!" is trolling the shit out of you.
Probably one of the least fun games you can ever attempt to play.
>>343550102
I did after one and a half year of repeated attempts. But can't say I did it the legit way and had to resort to help for two things(How to kill Hawkwind and the fact there is a hidden floor and how to get to it) But I'm proud for knowing the answer to what Werdna's wish was.
>>343550102
i have.
i don't have austism, I AM THE AUTISM.
>>343550132
Not him but they are not that great. The hero is a massive dick and the girl isn't likable at all.
>>343518342
It's
>THE GROUND IS TOO SOFT! I WISH MORE OF MY BONES WERE BROKEN!
incarnate.
>>343530705
The SNES port of Ultima 7 isn't even the same fucking game as the PC game. It's a bad Zelda clone with everything good about the original game stripped out.
>>343549454
I blame Final Fantasy VI and VII. They're the first RPGs I can think of where status effects were almost completely fucking useless and they happened to be popular enough to spread this bullshit.
>>343547331
mages have AoE attacks. The game works on a dice system for damage. So an aoe attack can be 3d6. Which means that it can either melt your face with 18 damage or tickle with 3 damage. LVL drain can just fuck you up, but it doesnt have to connect. Paralyse basically makes melee units useless. At the one hand this means that you can fuck super LEVEL draining rapemachine demon lord into submission by just paralysing them. However it goes both ways.
Simplest example is just looking at the teleport system. What you do is you use teleport, then type in the coordinates. If you write the coordinates of a wall section you die. If you type them in properly you can jump through the whole floor without a hitch. Thats the game. If you know the logic you can just fuck it into submission. If you walk in as an innocent new-gaming pussy you get smashed and wonder why attacks are allowed to be so powerful.
>>343549110
you mean the true endingof the secret 11th flooror the one with the statue?
The real problem with Wizardry 4 is that it's a game made by someone that felt Wizardry 1 was so amazing he made a game just to jizz all over 1. A lot of the annoying thing can be answered by looking at 1.
>Solving the first puzzle by knowing Wiz1
>Slove a map level by having all the maps from Wiz1
>There's a question in the game that you can only answer by knowing all of Wiz1
>>343550701
Final fantasy 1 had useless status effects too thanks to glitchy code.
>>343550923
Well the game box art did mention it was for wizardry veterans
>>343550993
Funny enough FF2 status effect was broken as fuck to your advantage.
>>343550887
The first I got was the Statue ending. The true ending I never knew existed untill some guy on a newsgroup told me about it's existence and where to start looking.
>>343550771
>using the Bard in Wizardry VI-VIII to lock down enemies over and over and over and over and over by spamming their lute
>>343550701
In final fantasy, every option that wasn't "attack" or "heal" has always been useless. One of the reasons I've never been able to enjoy many FF games.
They're useful in Atlus games and some Dragons Quests.
>>343550993
Some of them worked and they're still more effective than they are in VI.
>>343551062
While true it really has no identity by itself. It seem like it was only made to show how much he loves Wiz1. Rather than making a enjoyable hard Wiz game.
>>343551231
The fuck? Play FFV, that's blatantly not true.
>>343551475
>play FFV
I have.
>>343551608
Then you should know better.
>>343551697
FF5 has a lot of silly shit you can do like Dark Sparking a boss to make it susceptible to LvX blue magic or skipping Neo Exdeath with Chemist shenanigans, but the game is still easily beatable with the basic attack/heal method.
>>343548034
>Playing Romancing SaGa Bard Song or whatever its called on PS2
>Grind like fuck because I figured its like a normal JRPG
>Suddenly plot advances extremely quickly, all sidequests suddenly skipped, and everything is hard as fuck
I learned the hard way that grinding in SaGa games is verboten. You need to keep your encounter rate as low as possible to not skip most of the game by accident.
>>343552224
Sure, but that's not the same thing as status effects being useless. They're usually more effective than just attacking and healing and in a lot of cases the latter won't cut it.
>>343528101
>and one of my characters that had 0 IQ lost another point when he leveled up. I checked his stats and he had 34 IQ.
Shit this is good to know actually. Will have to try experimenting with this when I get the chance.
>>343529495
>Are the Ultima games as bullshit as the Wizardry games are sounding?
They're easy to "play" but bullshit to "win" if that's a good answer for you. There are no really hard fights, but good luck figuring out what you need to do to progress.
>>343545343
You have an Escape option with a roughly 80% chance of success.
>>343546781
Wizardry
Ultima
Might & Magic
Dungeon Master
Pool of Radiance
Bard's Tale
Wasteland
Magic Candle
Starflight
Phantasie
These are generally the most notorious names
>>343550701
Dragon Quest games had a lot of useless status effects.
>>343554910
Not really.
>>343554910
Like what?
>>343555027
>>343555078
Late game, pretty much all of them, since enemies were mostly immune to everything
>>343554910
Sleep was extremely useful in DQ1-3, Surround was great in DQ2 at minimum, Chaos was great in DQ3 but showed up a little late.
I'm not seeing it.
>>343537267
The term DRPG was created by Experience Inc, and it's an official marketing term. Naturally it becomes the subgenre's name. For comparison, the guys who develop the original Wizardry called their game FRP (fantasy role-play).
>>343538521
What about RPG not from the west AND not from Japan?
What are some good Japanese dungeon crawlers from the 80s or 90s. My Japanese is good enough so translations don't matter.
>>343555959
We call those "shit"
>>343555767
Don't know how you play it but sleep, surround, sap, silence, and even death spell are all used in every DQ game. Even in the final area.
>>343555959
You mean Gothic/Witcher/Divinity?
Dunno, eRPG maybe?
>>343556118
Haven't played them but you could give a shot to any one of the multitudes of japanese Wizardry games. Try Wizardry Dimguil.
>>343556118
The only dungeon crawler of note is Black Onix for being the first Japanese dungeon crawler.
>>343556205
>Germany, Poland, and Belgium are not western
>>343556383
What do you mean with not Western and not Eastern?
>>343556173
>We
>>343557084
Something like other part of Asia, like from Korea or SEA.
>>343557359
>not Starcraft
>not free2playpay2win cash shop FPS
>>343518342
I never knew but the Japanese love Wizardry. they still make games about it and I think they own the rights
they even made a shit mmo
>>343559373
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/wizardry/wizardry13.htm
So, what's the fun in Grimrock?
Are there any vendors or currency?
>>343559541
It's a puzzle focused dungeon crawler. No merchants whatsoever. I can't speak for grimrock 1 but in 2 you freely explore all over the island looking for items to progress and equipment to survive.
>>343559541
>what's the fun in Grimrock
Nothing. If you want a good modern dungeon crawler go play one of the Japanese ones unless cute girls ruin games for you.
>>343559910
pleb
What ever happened to Wizardry Online? Is it only available in Japan?
>>343559541
Grimrock is pretty different to Wizardry. It's not turn based and has plenty of puzzles based on environmental interaction. First game is kinda clunky but enjoyable and the second one is pretty good (I haven't finished it yet). Both have meh combat but the second one can have some good fights here and there but the combat isn't a deal breaker since the game is more focused on exploration and puzzles than in combat.
>>343560941
Grimrock is inspired by Dungeon Master, not really Wizardry. Not a big surprise.
>>343560941
I'd say grimrock combat is really focused on positioning. If you sit there and just take hits it's boring and inefficient.
>>343560912
It is now. The western release flopped hard and they shut the US servers down.
>>343560912
It's dead everywhere.
>>343560941
Grimrock is inspired by Dungeon Master which is inspired by Wizardry. Its like saying Final Fantasy is inspired by DnD and Wizardry is inspired by DnD.
>>343561076
>>343561439
Yeah I know, I'm just comparing it to Wizardry since this thread is mostly about dungeon crawlers with that style of turn based gameplay.
>>343561439
So Grimrock is the same as Final Fantasy?
>you will never make a massive 100 floor hardcore dungeoncrawler with optional automapping, hidden doors and traps everywhere. As well as insane amounts of stats and abilities and overpowered status effects.
>>343562513
Why not?
>>343550305
I think a post I saw on /vr/ described Wizardry IV as "more a piece of high-concept performance art than a video game." It's weird, but that I description.
I've been interested in the PC Engine version which is supposed to tone down the game -slightly-... though I worry that since the game isn't completely in English (spells, stats, summoning/char menus are; spell and dungeon descriptions are not), I would be fucked 5 ways to Sunday.
>dat cover though
>>343562675
because I cant code.
>>343563681
>>343562675
I meant to post
I cant code
I cant draw art/model
I have no sense of balance
I dont have a few years of free time
>>343563681
Use gamemaker, RPGMaker or a myriad of other makers then.
