So, this guy sounded like Liquid in MGS2, it seemed Liquid frequently took control of him. He had to cut that arm to prevent Liquids ghost to take over.
in MGS4, they revealed that was not the case and all of it was self-suggestion, psycho theraphy and shit like that.
How did he sounded like Liquid then?
>>343198786
>in MGS4, they revealed that was not the case and all of it was self-suggestion, psycho theraphy and shit like that.
There's your answer
>>343198786
they were too lazy to get cam clarke again
because he was too busy pretending to be kent clark
This is one of the many reasons why I don't take any of the MGS games after 3 seriously.
>>343198786
>How did he sounded like Liquid then?
Voice changer or whatever those devices are called
You are starting to come to the realization that MGS2's plot was dogshit, and that games trying to explain that dogshit were dogshit themselves.
MGS2 was liquid actually possessing him, so by the power of magic medium bullshit, ocelot sounded like liquid. Before MGS4 happened, ocelot cut off the arm but decided to keep pretending, which meant he didn't have liquid's voice anymore.
Yes, there are actually people on /v/ that think this is good writing.
In MGS2 he was Liquid spirit wise
In MGS4 he was Liquid meme wise
Both equally Liquid though.
>>343198786
Because he was possessed in 2 and only pretending in 4. How can so many people miss such a simple fact.
In the Japanese version he exclusively has Liquid's voice actor since Ocelot's voice actor died. No idea why they decided to reverse it for the English version.
>>343198786
If you listen carefully during MGS4, you can hear Patrick Zimmerman attempting a very poor English accent.
The reason Snake has a moustache in MGS4 isn't just to amplify the "old man" look, it's also to balance out Ocelot and help him look closer to what you might expect Liquid to have looked like if he'd survived long enough to hit accelerated ageing. Ocelot is pretty much Old Liquid in 4.
Wasn't he using his latent medium abilities that he received from the Sorrow to channel Liquid's ghost/essence/etc and only after MGS2 did he decide to replace the Liquid arm with a prosthesis while still pretending to be a fusion of Liquid and Ocelot's psyches through self-hypnosis to fool the Patriot's AI?
>>343199418
>In MGS4 he was Liquid meme wise
you meannanomachinewise
>>343198786
because MGS4 is a retarded game that shouldn't have been made
>>343199267
MGS2 plot is fine, the problem was kojima trying to tie everything that happened in a game that literally ends with snake telling the player "look past the words, past the pictures" aka "don't take everything that just happened literally" into some greater story arc
>>343199476
because the english version of MGS4 and really every MGS game after the first one is fucked up. same reason they gave snake a cancer voice that sounds annoying as hell
>>343199637
DELET THIS
>>343199637
Yes.
He never takes on Liquid's voice in the Japanese version of MGS2.
MGS 4 is fucking garbage. Please do not bring anything about it up.
Worst MGS.
>>343199180
>whatever those devices are called
nanomachines
>>343199810
This. I hate the newfriends who acted like MGSV was the worst thing ever when 4 was an unimaginable piece of garbage a thousand times worse.
>>343198786
Ocelot was a master of mimicry as was established in 3 where you learn he earned his name for his impressive ocelot impression.
>>343199918
son
>>343198786
the english version of every MGS game besides the first one is objectively not good because kojima only cares about the japanese versions
>>343199695
>MGS2 plot is fine
>Homosexual immortal is still on the loose
>An enormous leviathan of a submarine bellyflopped all over manhattan
>Patriots are a complete mystery, the ending cliffhanger's their purpose and existence.
>Liquid hijacked ocelot and then hijacked a Ray, then dove into the ocean
>Snake fucking DIVED OFF ARSENAL GEAR and went into hot pursuit trying to chase an amphibious MECH
>Who even is the protagonist anymore
THIS IS FINE
There is a very, very good reason why they decided to do a blank slate prequel after 2's fucking putrid mess.
>>343199989
mgs4 has awful cutscenes you can skip but at least it feels like a MGS game when it comes to gameplay (abit a pretty shitty and easily broken one)
MGSV has boring bullshit cutscenes instead of funny bad ones and the gameplay is a waiting for helicopters to land simulator where you sometimes sneak around the same two bases so you can attach balloons to things
>>343198923
>too lazy to get cam clarke again
pretty sure it was something along the lines of that the Japanese liquids VO died irl so they went with ocelots voice in all versions out of respect.
think kojimbo and him were friends too.
>>343199975
Maybe
>>343200597
I don't know
>>343200221
None of those things are the actual plot of MGS2, they're just things that happened.
The actual plot of MGS2 is raiden remembering and coming to terms with his child solider past so he can be less of a gigantic whiner in the future and all the stuff about passing on information/memes. That's a fully realized story.
MGS2 more or less went through a total re-write or something (check the grand game plan for more info) and because of that and being kind of rushed to release the pacing of the story is all fucked up, but having a bunch of loose ends doesn't make it a bad story.
Especially since, again, it straight up says "don't take all of this so seriously" at the end. MGS2 wasn't designed to have followups for all of that stuff, it was left up to the player to think about or just ignore as cool stuff that happened in a videogame. You might not like it, but there's nothing inherantly wrong with that since, again, the actual core story has nothing to do with any of this crap.
The problem was when MGS4 completley ignored everything I just said in that wall of text and tried to make all of that stuff "real" and tries to explain a bunch of stuff that was intentionally left without explanations. That makes MGS4 the problem.
>>343198786
Nanomachines and the SOP system.
>>343198786
Explaining MGS2's ending in detail was the worst thing Kojima ever did. Even things like Vamp should be left a mystery, like Psycho Mantis (which is also explained in MGS4 together with Vamp) was in MGS1
>>343199695
>MGS2 plot is fine
2 pretty much ruined MGS in general and MGS4 had to clean up after 2 retarded plot
>>343200314
you got that exactly backwards, it was ocelot VA that died so liquid voiced him the whole time in mgs4
>>343198786
MGS2 he's controlled by Liquid then inbetween games he gets a new arm and pretends. Did you not notice he has a completely different arm in MGS4?
he was merely pretending, so as to fool the Patriots
Ocelot's goal was always to disband the Patriots, why do you think he was helping Solidus?
>>343198786
>How did he sounded like Liquid then?
nanomachines, son
>>343200221
>Patriots are a complete mystery, the ending
cliffhanger's their purpose and existence.
It's incredibly obvious they're digitized consciousness if you listen to the after-credits codec call (in which Otacon says they've been dead for over a century). And their purpose is repeatedly stated during the Arsenal Gear calls with the Colonel
It hurts to see retards arguing about the plot mechanics of this series.
>>343200752
>Especially since, again, it straight up says "don't take all of this so seriously" at the end. MGS2 wasn't designed to have followups for all of that stuff, it was left up to the player to think about or just ignore as cool stuff that happened in a videogame.
im sorry but that sounds really retarded
>>343200830
>2 pretty much ruined MGS in general
lol
>MGS4 had to clean up after 2 retarded plot
why, exactly?
You know what the most funny thing is, Kojima uses the same element do explain a major plot point AGAIN
and there is people defending V
>>343199267
>4 was shit
>blame 2 for it
this retardation is why the series never got any good games after 3
>>343200831
okey dokey knew it was something along the lines, read it in a mag before the game came out
>>343201075
Maybe, but that's what MGS2 set out for.
If you need every single detail of everything explained you should probably start reading technical manuals instead of playing videogames
>>343201218
>parasites are the reason for the cobra unit powers
Seriously, fuck Kojima.
>>343198962
Why would you take MGS3 seriously?
honestly ever mgs game has something retarded about it, i just dont see why mgs4 gets all the flak for it
>>343198786
They retconned that. He didn't sound like Liquid, because that's silly and makes no sense. That's why he sounds like Ocelot all throughout MGS4
>>343200221
>Patriots are a complete mystery, the ending cliffhanger's their purpose and existence.
What are you talking about? The only thing that isn't explained is otacon going THEY ALL DIED 100 YEARS AGO which is just setup for the wisemans committe in MGS3, the same way otacon talks about solidus and shit at the end of mgs1
>>343201556
The reason MGS 1-3's wacky shit gets ignored and MGS4's doesn't can be boiled down to one thing.
In the first three games the wacky stuff doesn't actually matter, you could remove all of it or replace it with something that isn't stupid and the story would be 99% identical. In MGS4 the entire plot revolves around NANOMACHINES and AI's that control every part of the world and all other kinds of goofy stuff.
>>343198962
>>343201479
To follow up, why take any MGS game seriously?
>>343201417
They were only stated to be the reason for The End's powers. The damage wasn't severe enough for you to get that butthurt.
>>343201417
I actually meant the hypnosis, but you're right
LIKE POTTERY
>>343201672
>setup for the wisemans committe
bullshit, it was a deliberate endpoint to show that Snake had no leads. It was the opposite of a sequel hook
>>343201479
This, every time I ask people this I always get:
"Because none of the stupid shit that goes on in 4 is in 3."
I mean it's not like there's a guy that can control bees, or a scene where a guy explodes into a fiery spooky ghost skull that chases snake, or a scar that slithered around someone's body before turning into a snake and slithering off : ^)
>>343198786
Decoy Octopus
>>343200284
>at least it feels like a MGS game when it comes to gameplay
No, it doesn't. It's no more a MGS game than V. V at least has gameplay that lasts more than two hours.
>>343200752
This whole post is wrong
>MGS2 wasn't designed to have followups for all of that stuff, it was left up to the player to think about or just ignore as cool stuff that happened in a videogame
Or in other words
>The unfinished story aspects of MGS2 should be ignored as just cool stuff but the reasons for the cool stuff happening in MGS4 can't be ignored because of reasons
Also, MGS2 isn't a vr mission, it's all real events. The story of the game is the process of CREATING the ultimate vr mission.
>>343201663
In the japanese version (the only one kojima cares about) he talks like liquid all the time.
>>343201914
Something can have fantastical/stupid elements and still be taken seriously, it's called suspension of disbelief.
Games after 3 push it way too far and also just have worse writing.
>>343201943
Yeah it could go either way. Even though mgs2 takes place in like 2007 that still isn't 100 years ago but they WERE the founders of the patriots in a way because their group led to the patriots. It's just another case of kojima taking the ending of a prevous game and pretending something else actually happened so his new story has "setup"
>>343201907
They wrote themselves into a corner. 1-3 were fine because, who knows, the crazy shit COULD lead to some amazing finale. But then it didn't.
I mean I liked 4 and I think they did the best with the situation they put themselves in, but it still wasn't amazing.
>>343200752
>but there's nothing inherantly wrong with that since, again, the actual core story has nothing to do with any of this crap.
There is everything wrong with this crap. Evangelion pulls this kind of "leave it to the viewer" thing and it works, because the conclusion is clear; the apocalypse is over, Shinji see's why he's wrong, and the human population is going to slowly return, come what may. It doesn't work in mgs2 because it's not even remotely clear about things. Why is an amputated arm possessing ocelot? What is liquid even trying to do? Why is vamp immortal, why is he still alive, what does he even want? Patriots are dead, what's going on?
Raiden's little story was not particularly good, and nearly every plot point around him was an unfinished mess. There's nothing inherently good about this.
>>343202083
What about any of the things that original post mentioned are "unfinished story elements", just because every single aspect of a story isn't methodically explained doesn't mean it's unfinished. Are you literally 10 years old? This is the sort of thinking that lead to NANOMACHINES in mgs4.
>Also, MGS2 isn't a vr mission, it's all real events.
When did I say anything about VR missions? I'm not saying snake is saying that the events of the game literally didn't happen, just that they aren't really that important to focus on because the story of the game is ACTUALLY about raiden dealing with his past and all the stuff about information spreading in the digital age
>>343198786
is metal gear solid the most shilled game on slash V?
>>343202397
>Why is an amputated arm possessing ocelot? What is liquid even trying to do? Why is vamp immortal, why is he still alive, what does he even want? Patriots are dead, what's going on?
That's called a cliffhanger. It's a common literary trope used when they plan to create sequels in the future, so the viewers have something to look forward to.
You can choose what instrument he played you like.
>>343198786
No one should see anything beyond mgs 1-2-3 and the first 2 Chapters of 4 as canon.
>>343202304
>They wrote themselves into a corner. 1-3 were fine because, who knows, the crazy shit COULD lead to some amazing finale
You're a dumbass. MG 1, 2 and MGS 1, 2 and 3 by themselves are a great series and they didn't need any more games than that.
>I mean I liked 4
Yeah, you would.
>>343202304
MGS 1-3 were mostly self contained stories, it was only with MGS4 that they felt they had to tie up/explain everything that ever happened even though that's a blatantly stupid idea
>>343202573
Just take off the entirety of 4 out of it. The series ended with 3, story-wise. From that point forward it's all fan-fiction.
>>343202636
>they didn't need any more games than that.
what are you retarded? there were so many unanswered questions and plot holes that a new game was mandatory at that point
>>3432027453 was also fan-fiction, anon, it just wasn't as offensive
>>343202719
>MGS 1-3 were mostly self contained stories
2 was pretty much a follow up of 1 though
>>343202767
There really weren't. The speech at the end of MGS 2 was the conclusion to the series. You didn't need to see the Patriots get dismantled.
>>343198786
nanomachines
>>343198786
Retcon
>>343202828
Absolutely not. 3 was a brilliant backstory that explained how the hero of USA could betray his nation in Metal Gear 1. It's a perfect prequel to MG 1 and MG 2.It's from Portable Ops on that it becomes fanfiction.
>>343202397
>Raiden's little story was not particularly good, and nearly every plot point around him was an unfinished mess.
They aren't plot points, they're just things that happen. Was snake being marked for death by raven or the insanely ambigiousness of if/when he's going to die of foxdie in MGS1 "unfinished plot points" because they didn't explain them in a 10 minute powerpoint cutscene like MGS4 does about everything?
As for raiden, that's pretty subjective especially since the english version is really badly done. MGS2 isn't the best MGS story (that would be MGS1) but compared to 4/5/PW it's got a lot of very redeeming points to it.
>>343202880
Don't forget Ocelot running away on Ray.
>>343202083
>MGS2 isn't a vr mission, it's all real events
then why does the area where Raiden fights off the RAYs have the exact same design as the vr photo missions from MGS1?
>>343202636
There is plenty of unresolved shit in those games. Fuck you.
>>343198786
Because the intended story changed.
The end.
BETTER QUESTION
Was he gay?
>>343203029
People wanting every possible loose end tied up into a bow tie is why the retardation that was MGS 4 happened.
A story can't show literally everything that happens in the world, mate. It has to end at some point. And MGS 2 was a great ending, while MGS 3 was a great prequel.
>>343202958
except for the fact that it entirely rewrote Big Boss from MG1 and 2
>>343203114
Huge crush on Big Boss.
>>343203137
There is a difference between an ambiguous ending and a premature ending. Ending it there would have been premature.
>>343202487
Yea and then they made a sequel based on mgs2's ending and it was doodoo. Vamp was still an awful character that didn't deserve screentime, Liquid/ocelots' motive was still fucking terrible, Raiden had no nearly no personality in 2 so they had to make one up, and the patriots ended up being terrible antagonists once you get rid of all the mystery.
>>343203137
>backpedaling
>>343203114
knowing kojima, he was probably bisexual
>>343198786
Honestly they should have killed off ocelot instead of liquid in the series.
Liquid was far more interesting.
>>343203237
Not every product is a success
>>343203157
In what way did it re-write Big Boss, you stupid fag?
Bear in mind that MGS 3 didn't have elements of Snake actually leaving the USA, he would "serve" them until the events of MG 1 until retarded stories like Portable Ops and Peace Walker came in.
so whats the best qay to play this series?
a friend of mine told me that it makes the most sense to play in chronological order because the timeline dosent make any sense and just flips around like crazy.
The guy sounded like cowboy Troy Baker in MGSV and like an american pretty boy in MGS3. I think it can be inferred that he's good at mimicking accents.
>>343203347
Whatever, I'm blaming mgs2 for creating a landscape of shit for mgs4 to be built on top of.
>>343202854
I mean, kinda? The things that were all set up as sequel hooks in MGS1 (foxdie, more people making metal gears around the world, ocelot) are things that are either barely in the game or happened offscreen. Snake himself is in the game but it's mainly just to compare him to raiden and act as a mouthpiece for kojimas ideas on stuff. I mean christ meryl is only mentioned off-hand in one codec call.
>>343202958
"Big Boss had his own Big Boss who was named THE boss and she was the best solider to ever live that literally invented sneaking and she went to the moon first and everyone loved her so much that the next 100 something years of world history were shaped by people arguing over who loved her the most" is pretty fanfictiony m8, MGS3 is a good game and the boss is a cool character but cmon
>>343203395
RELEASE ORDER
ALWAYS
>>343203395
Your friend is a dumbass then because even though the timeline gets all screwy after a while each game clearly bulds on the last one in gameplay and also story themes
Play it in release order, why is this so complicated
>>343203412
Actually he sounds like a gruff japanese dude in the version kojima cares about, then he got some second rate cartoon VA's do to the english version for more money
Vocal cord nanomachines.
>>343203395
from top to bottom:
MGS1
MGS2
MGS3
MGS4
PW
MGS5: GZ
MGS5: TPP
everything else is optional (including MG1 & MG2 you can play them before MGS1 but i played them before MGS3)
>>343203546
I'd say they're both equally valid ways to play the games. Plus starting with the first MG might turn people off to the series with its bare-bones story and gameplay
>>343203449
A boss having his own past boss that shaped his life and views on the world isn't fanfictiony at all.
The moon bullshit was from Peace Walker, we're talking about MGS 3.
The "everything is about The Boss' will" is from the games past 3. Only Big Boss cared and knew about The Boss' story and it was what defined him. The bullshit about Zero and friends being the Patriots is all shit from MGS 4.
>>343203431
They could have just had a normal fucking story where you infiltrated a base and stopped an evil computer. And Ocellot would show up at some point and should BROTHER.
The is nothing in MGS2 that forced then to make a massive cluster fuck with 100 hour long cut scenes with MGS3 characters forced into every thing fucking moment possible.
Kokjima being a hack is the only thing to blame.
>>343203692
>leaving out four entire canon games
>>343202083
Until MGS4 it was ambigious what in MGS2 was real and what was not. I like MGS4, but I kinda understand how some people think it's boring to explain everything.
>>343203830
which ones did i miss?
>>343202047
post the MGS4 Snake crawl, the one where he looks like he's humping the ground
>>343202047
4 has an average longer playtime without cutscenes than any of the previous games.
>>343204297
It doesn't. You can keep repeating that lie as if it's the truth, but it it will never be true.
When you strip the game of turret sequences, whistling following, codec conversations and ingame cutscenes, the game lasts like 2 hours, you have the first act, a bit of the second act and the boss fights. Nothing more.
>>343203742
release order means start with MGS1, there's no reason to play MG1 besides as a curiosity because it sucks and the 10 seconds of story that happened is explained in MGS1/heavily retconned anyway
MG2 is pretty awesome though.
>>343203750
>The moon bullshit was from Peace Walker, we're talking about MGS 3.
Huh? It's from MGS3. The whole reason that she has the ideals she does is from when she went into space and saw the world without borders and shit. PW only added the really stupid "THOSE SEXIST PEOPLE AT NASA KEPT HER DOWN" stuff.
>Only Big Boss cared and knew about The Boss' story and it was what defined him.
and eva, but otherwise that's true. It's not really a stretch to assume BB would tell someone else though, especially since your radio team in MGS3 still somehow knows everything that happens to naked snake even though there's no video.
> The bullshit about Zero and friends being the Patriots is all shit from MGS 4.
This is not. Looking back there's a LOT of weird offhand comments everyone makes on the radio that can clearly lead into them being bad dudes in later games. The only real exception is Ocelot but he straight up says he's a member of the patriots in MGS2 so they already covered that.
People say that the MGS3 characters are too wacky to be evil but like, naked snake is afraid of dracula and believes in santa claus and then he goes onto being the pre-retcon madman of metal gear 2 in the ending so that isn't really a good argument. The problem with the reveal in MGS4 is that it's badly done because old eva just talks for an hour about bullshit and then at the end of the game you see 100 year old zero pissing himself and that's basically it.
>>343203367
>In what way did it re-write Big Boss
if you'd played any of the other games maybe you'd know, you fucking retard
>>343204441
Nope.
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=5916
>>343200314
that was grey fox and its the reason you never heard of him again in the prequels
>>343204441
if you subtract the amount of cutscenes with the amount of gameplay for each game than that anon is right, except for mgs3 where the difference is only 1 hour.
>>343204496
You're out of your god damn mind if you honestly think MGS 3 had anything resembling hints to them being bad people. You're over-analyzing the fuck out of it. They were three chirpy people helping Snake out and substituting the codec team from the previous games.
>>343204545
>>343204570
Again, if you remove turret sections, codec bullshit, the whistling sequence, the empty part of you just walking around Shadow Moses outside, the part where you crawl through the vents and similar bullshit like that, the game is like 2 hours long.
>>343202047
>>343204441
MGS5 has "gameplay" of waiting for helicopters, waiting for micotransactions to finish so you can use more gear, and attaching ballons to things
MGS4 has setpieces (that all suck) boss fights (that are awesome), it doesn't throw the MGS control scheme completely into the dumpster to control like a worse version of just cause 2 or mercinaries.
MGS4 is a horrible game but it still feels like an MGS game, MGS5 just feels like Open World Paramilitary Simulator but it's not a good version of that because it's full of time wasting bullshit and it has very limited mechanics and world design compared to similar games that came out years beforehand.
>>343203367
Patriots?
MGS3?
Clones?
Liquid, solid, solidus?
Outer heaven?
Zero?
Old snake?
Did you just ignore connections?
Snake did leave the US.
>>343204770
>if you remove all this gameplay the game has little gameplay
uh no shit?
>>343203991
I bet that anon considers Portable Ops and Ghost Babel canon.
>>343198786
In MGS2 due to the therapy shit you mentioned, his mind actually had a Liquid personality take over.
In MGS4 he was faking it to fool the patriots so he could kill them.
Ocelot was easily the biggest ruse of the entire series.
>>343198786
He cut the arm off because The Sorrow's genes made him an involitary medium. The psychotherapy came after, and Liquid has no presence in the series after MGS2.
>>343204850
Yeah, so gameplay worth a shit: 2 hours.
>>343204770
Now you're just being delusional on multiple levels.
The trailing in chapter 3 is thirty minutes at most.
The "turret sections" are no longer than the motorcycle sequence in 3.
The codec conversations aren't being counted for any games, but if they were, 3 would easily have the most.
Even speedruns of the game are over four hours.
You're just wrong about this one friend, let it go.
>>343204646
Yeah, and snake was a goofy guy that sperged out about guns and believed that mushrooms could recharge his batteries because they glowed but then he became a man that wants to purge the world into an endless cycle of warfare where he everyone dies, then he takes the children that are left over and raises them as soldiers for the next war all because he can't get over his PTSD.
Literally how is it any different? Sigint straight up talks about wanting to make DARPA, para-medic has all kinds of weird off-hand lines about wanting to clone snake and other weird science shit, zero talks rather frequently about expanding control to better protect people, this shit is all in the radio calls once you get past the "dude im so black" "dude I love japanese movies "dude im so english" silly ones.
Was it a good reveal in MGS4? Fuck no. But it was set up way more then most things are between games in MGS.
>>343205032
Aside from boss battles:
Act 3 has no gameplay worth a shit
Act 4 has barely any gameplay worth a shit that can all just be bypassed by throwing chaff grenades around
Act 5 has no gameplay worth a shit other than something that lasts like 5 minutes
Indefensible.
>>343198857
no it's not, he wants to know how the man's voice changed to someone else's entirely
>>343201931
>They were only stated to be the reason for The End's powers. The damage wasn't severe enough for you to get that butthurt.
No, it's outright stated that it was the entire Cobra Unit
>>343205180
Now your goalpost has switched because you were proven wrong. You don't have to like the game and no one gives a shit if you do or don't.
The game is longer and that's a verifiable fact.
>>343205148
None of that told us that they would become the people responsible for the Patriots and that they would be going for the Boss's will like they gave a fuck. All of that was created later. Which is why I said that MGS 3 is where the series story ends and everything past that is fanfiction.
>>343205330
It isn't, though. You can dish out the number of hours but the time spent on stealth core game play is lower. The only thing worth a shit in MGS 4 is the first act, a bit of the second act and the boss battles.
>>343198962
Taking it seriously was the problem with MGS4
All the other MGS games prior had a kind of supernatural mystery around them, MGS4 just sought to destroy all of it and call it "nanomachines" instead, it really disappointed me in that regard.
I wish Kojima just left it alone, let Ocelot be possessed, not everything needs some retarded pseudo-scientific explanation like "psychological conditioning" and nanomachines and shit. I'd rather the plot be embarrassingly silly than embarrassingly boring.
>>343198786
they probably just got lazy with their voice actors
>>343201974
yes there is, didnt you even play da game?
>>343205493
To be fair, Ocelot was one of the things in that game that wasn't explained by nanomachines.
both mgs4 and 5 are ireedemable garbage games that only retards enjoy playing because one wastes your time with endless cutscenes and the other wastes your time with insanely repetitive gameplay, the lack of anything to do and how long it takes to start any mission
>>343205448
That's just cutting the game up to make it sound different when every MGS is like that anyway.
3 had lots of inane bullshit like running through areas with nothing besides frogs and birds, and if you're just going to pick apart the games to define what is and isn't gameplay you could make the games out to be anything that supports your argument.
>>343202408
>When did I say anything about VR missions?
As you can see be these posts, this is a common misconception
>>343203009
>>343203869
>>343202408
>just because every single aspect of a story isn't methodically explained doesn't mean it's unfinished
Your right, not everything needs to be explained and if you are fine with the story ending with MGS2 more power to ya.
But with two of the major villains of the series (Liquid and the patriots) both ending on cliff hangers, it shouldn't be much of a surprise that fans would want more. It's like ending Star Wars after episode 5.
>>343205352
That's true, but that's a problem with MGS4 not properly introducing that and just going SURPRISE THIS HAPPENED in an insanely boring cutscene halfway through the game
>>343202547
Trombone
>>343205837
the difference is that liquid and the patriots are major villians in an overall sense but to raiden he doesn't really care all that much, he beat his darth vader in solidus and he resolved his character arc
>>343205837
>As you can see be these posts, this is a common misconception
Disprove it then, faggot
>>343205756
Ocelot was just "psychotherapy" instead, the problem lies in the fact that they're just stupid one-word """"scientific"""" explanations that serve no purpose other than to kill whatever mystery lies behind the actions of the characters, it makes the plot and setting very dry and uninteresting.
>>343201931
The End, The Pain, and The Fury, anon. Play it again.
>>343199637
Ding ding ding. Everyone forgets the Sorrow was Ocelot's father. He most likely was possessed, then cut the arm off and used his impersonation ability to keep the act up and fool the Patriots.
Apologize
>>343206184
Considering Ocelot is russian the inspiration for that was probably USSR brainwashed agents. Sorry you're jaded and can't have fun.
>>343206118
The burden of proof is on you, explain how MGS2 is VR outside of "this one room looks like another room"
>>343206324
Why? I fucking love you.
>>343200831
what? he has ocelot's voice in MGS4
>>343206284
What supernatural power did the fury have? Apart from those flying skulls that showed up after his death?
>>343206295
When was the Sorrow thing ever verified? It makes sense but I don't remember it being proven anywhere.
>>343206471
They were talking about his japanese voice, who died in 2006
>>343206574
It's not (maybe in that mgs4 database thing?) but since ocelot is the bosses son and she and the sorrow were a thing there's nobody else it can be
>>343206118
Play the game again, the codec AI talk about how this mission was designed to create the Solid Snake Simulation and if it was truly the vr mission itself Solid Snake wouldn't be in it.
>>343206049
Raiden did sure, but not the other main characters
>>343198786
Why didn't they just pull a "Liquid wasn't really dead" thing?
Would have been much better.
>Ocelot serves as Liquids right hand man, in MGS2 Liquid is still pretending to be dead, and helping Ocelot pull of the ruse
>MGS4 comes along
>Liquid finally reveals himself to have been alive the whole time operating behind the scenes
>Ocelot instead serves as a mid game boss, revolver duel him at high noon like in one of his American western movies
>epic old man on old man fist fight between brothers in the end
>>343206328
>Sorry you're jaded and can't have fun.
I'm the one who wants to have fun, blame Kojima for removing all the fun from the franchise for no reason.
>>343206485
l have no idea. They never explained him. You could just say parasites too but that wouldn't be concrete. I think he was just a lunatic with a flamethrower.
Those flying skulls, though...
What did they mean?
>>343206825
Clearly not.
Who gives a shit about the details?
Let's all appreciate Liquid "Brother" Ocelot for giving us this glorious fight.
>>343199349
Considering Ocelot's father is The Sorrow( a medium) its not that crazy
You're half-right and half-wrong.
Liquid really was taking over Ocelot's body in MGS2, but after the arm was removed post MGS2, Ocelot used the powers he got from his father The Sorrow and several drugs into hypnotizing himself into being Liquid, hence why he talked LIKE Liquid in MGS4, but not sounded like him. Outside the canon lore, may had something to do with VAs I dunno.
Because in MGS2 it was not yet decided that it wasn't the real liquid taking over Ocelot via nanos or something like that. Kojima only made MGS4 because Konami told him to. He didn't plan it originally.
>>343205898
We could spend the next five hours dissecting every single piece of terrible writing MGS 4 did to shit up the rest of the series in an unrecoverable way. We could spend one hour alone on that retarded ending.
>>343206937
That was the only good part of the game aside from the first act.
>>343206937
This fight was shit, though. I hate the kind of MGS fan that was honestly crying tears of joy at this bullshit or the Ray VS Rex fight while ignoring all the retarded bullshit that was being spewed by the game nonstop.
>>343206716
>>343206421
not him, but wouldn't the ambiguity of whether or not the mission was VR tie in to the game's points and themes about virtual reality war training for soldiers? "war as a game" and all that. isn't it not explicitly stated or confirmed to tie into that?
raiden having a dog tag of the name you enter at the beginning i feel like would add to that, in addition to MGR's plot of saving child soldiers from endless VR training indistinguishable from the real world, in addition to EVA in mgs4 comments on war as a game.
>>343207225
I know, I've done it before.
>>343206421
>rose appears in the end, wearing the same outfit the vr rose was wearing and talking about things only the vr rose had revealed
>snake appears in his classic suit, bandanna affected by nonexistent wind, to help raiden, curiously right as his support team is revealed to be untrustworthy
>both the colonel and rose constantly reassure that what is happening is real
>part of the game is centered on how raiden has been trained through vr to the point that he feels like a war hero
>the lack of commotion, sirens and movement after arsenal gear crashes through Manhattan and the former president is killed in a sword fight on the roof of city hall
>the design of the rooms in arsenal gear are based on certain mgs1 missions, as stated
There are many other hints, you'd have to be blind to ignore them
>>343207228
>Shadow Moses
>Noir Stealth through Act 3
>Microwave Scene
>F.R.O.G.S being really fun enemies to fight against
>Rex vs. Ray fight
MGS4 would have been so fucking amazing if they just toned downed the cutscenes and added in more room for gameplay.
>>343207473
they spent too much time making realistic guns for you to not use because its a stealth game
>>343207228
Shit taste. All the acts were good except 3.
>>343207473
Act 3 a shit
>>343206716
> this mission was designed to create the Solid Snake Simulation
You should play the game again. The s3 plan stands for Selection of Societal Sanity, and is a test to see if they can create context to force people to react in a certain way. The big shell incident is one of those contexts, as is Manhattan and raiden's freedom at the end
>>343207331
>I hate the kind of MGS fan that found enjoyment in a MGS game
Yeah same, what a tragedy
>>343198786
>In MGS2, when Liquid takes over, its actually liquid taking over using spiritual psychic stuff cause Ocelot's father is The Sorrow
>In MGS4, its not actually Liquid taking over but Ocelot pretending to be retarded, therefore Ocelot retains his voice.
/thread.
At least we can all agree Piss Wanker was a mistake and should have never happened.
>>343198786
>MGS4
>not a plot hole-filled piece of shit
I literally pretend MGS4 didn't happen.
>>343207756
MGS V was very enjoyable gameplay-wise desu. Shame story fags that wanted retarded moments like Snake VS Liquid Ocelot weren't able to enjoy that game because MUH STORY.
>>343207871
>finish GZ
>my first thought was "oh, they destroyed mother base so we could build it again in this game"
shit was so obvious
>>343207871
You bait, but there are people who really think this.
>>343204496
>release order means start with MGS1
Oh my bad, I didn't realize release order meant not playing them in the order they were released
>>343207424
>rose appears in the end, wearing the same outfit the vr rose was wearing and talking about things only the vr rose had revealed
Rose is only replaced by an AI when raiden goes onto arsenal gear, I haven't seen the scene in a while, but what does real rose say that she wouldn't know about? Either way, if she didn't wear the same outfit raiden would be able to tell that they replaced her with an AI I guess.
>snake appears in his classic suit, bandanna affected by nonexistent wind, to help raiden, curiously right as his support team is revealed to be untrustworthy
He's wearing his sneaking suit (which has been previously been established to be more better for combat somehow) because he doesn't need to pretend to be pliskin anymore. The bandana is pushing it, they can only have so many things effected by wind at a time in one scene due to hardware stuff.
>both the colonel and rose constantly reassure that what is happening is real
Do they? I only remember raiden freaking out to snake and then he tells him to stop being silly.
>part of the game is centered on how raiden has been trained through vr to the point that he feels like a war hero
Yeah, and? The colonel constantly says when explaining gameplay mechanics that it's "different from your VR training" because the joke is that raiden was trained in MGS:VR missions for PS1 and doesn't understand all the new mechanics of MGS2. If MGS2 was VR raiden wouldn't go "I wasn't ready for this" or a similar line every 10 minutes.
>the lack of commotion, sirens and movement after arsenal gear crashes through Manhattan and the former president is killed in a sword fight on the roof of city hall
This is because of 9/11. They had to remove a scene of arsenal wrecking manhattan so it just kind of appears at federal hall, and they couldn't show new york either empty or full of panicking people without causing a big shitshow because it was only like two months after it happened.
I don't see it.
>>343205304
Codetalker presumed it was all parasites
Every body's (assuming) parasites were too destroyed to do anything except for The End's
Then he decided "fuck it" and injected himself with what remained to see what would happen
Later on he created different strains of it ultimately leading to Wobakia
Also The Cobra Unit has the Sorrow, a true to form medium and the Fury was straight up a ghost man, so there was clearly some weird shit besides >muh parasites that everyone harps on
>ITT listen to the tapes
>>343207938
>bait
Fuck off with the newfag buzzwords.
PW is objectively the worse Metal Gear game. Metal Gear 2 doesn't count because it's not a canon game and I really wish PW wasn't also.
>>343207473
Shadow Moses would have been better with patrolling humans instead of shitty robots.
Act 3 is probably the worst gameplay sequence of any MGS game.
Microwave tunnel was great admittedly, but a 3 minute scene can't really make up for the hours of bullshit preceding it.
FROGS were not fun.
Rex vs. Ray was fun.
In the entire game there is maybe a total of an hour of actual fun out of something like 8-10 hours of boring shit. MGS4 is really bad.
>>343207947
When playing the METAL GEAR SOLID series you should play it in release order
If you're talking about the METAL GEAR series then yes, you would start with the 2D games and play the acid games
>>343207928
Too bad all of the missions sucked after 13, hold for OKB0
>>343199637
>>343199792
You're wrong.
The ONLY confirmation of the theory that he had the arm replaced because of possessions comes from the MGS Database which came out after MGS4.
However, it is filled with numerous errors and was declared non-canon.
>>343208203
Shining Lights was really just a cutscene but it was still great. Quiet Exit was cool too.
>>343208201
Acid isn't canon though, MG1 and 2 are
>>343208201
>acid games
I don't think those are tightly knit with the original two metal gear games.
How are they, though?
>>343208268
Why replace the arm then? Why it's the arm so dramatically presented as a big reveal at the end?
>>343198786
Once someone has slipped some Liquid inside you, you're never the same.
>>343198857
Kojima's writing is so retarded. It makes plots to Moeshit anime look reasonable.
>>343208462
I liked them. I prefer the art style and setting of the first one more even though 2 had more cards.
They're pretty weird games but they're a nice diversion.
>>343208468
Who knows? Probably another dropped Kojimbo plot point.
But the idea that Liquid was in control and was removed is baseless speculation based on non-canon material.
>>343208619
The speculation is based on that Ocelot had Liquid's arm and it's shown in MGS3 that he's the son of the Sorrow and the Boss.
>>343208619
The Sorrow being Ocelot's father is a fact though and a clear explanation of the possession. While I agree that is not 100% shown in the game it makes perfect sense.
>>343208203
Already about 5x times the gameplay worth a fuck that MGS 4 had.
>>343208856
It's not shown. It's inferred, and that's ultimately an assumption, if still a logical one.
>>343208468
Because Liquid was overtaking Ocelot's body, add in he had some of The Sorrow's medium powers added in for some more fuckery. He had the arm replaced to not interfere with his plans. He wanted the illusion that Liquid was running things, not make it an actual fact.
>>343207928
Yeah, MGSV: Ground Zeroes was pretty enjoyable gameplay-wise, I agree. Too bad TPP had a shitload of stupid shit piled on top of it that made it like riding a bike through a pool of peanut butter.
>>343207928
>very enjoyable gameplay-wise
Yeah, very fucking enjoyable man. Like using my horse to run through 4 miles of nothing. Or maybe I want to switch it up and use my jeep to DRIVE through 4 miles of nothing instead. Things really spiced up, though, encountering the same copy-pasted camp over and over. Or sneaking through poorly designed bases which were just glorified masses of nothing with some houses haphazardly scattered around containing the same stupid fucking junk to collect. The botched CQC also added a nice layer of depth, and repeating all of these missions twice was a great design choice. Masterpiece.
>>343208914
>s-still better than MGS4!!
One turd game is better than another. What a lust for defense, weeeeeeeeeeew.
>>343199180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97cgoxpVBcQ
>>343209121
>no base building
>no Fulton
>no buddies
>make every mission subsistence or extreme
Game suddenly goes from fun to mess around in to actually challenging and fun.
>>343198786
I've always thought it made more sense for him to actually be possessed in MGS2. If this weren't the case, he wouldn't have any real reason to replace the arm, and it would make the whole plot even more nonsensical than it already is.
MGS4 isn't worth the analysis, though.
>>343209414
>Fulton
Go around Fultoning everyone and everything.
GOTY
>>343207928
Yeah, except Kojima still tried to make those moments happen and failed hard.
3 minutes of staring into the distance as a retard monologues on a truck sure was endearing. Shoving ashes in your face was a damn fine piece of cinema. Literally staring at a mirror as you physically look like a demon to explain something that was happening metaphorically was grade A material.
>>343206324
>Fling an entire squad of guys off a building in PW
>Try doing it in PP
>They just end up at your feet when you sling them
>mfw I fucking loved MGS 4 and don't give a shit what /v/ thinks
>>343198786
>in MGS4, they revealed that was not the case and all of it was self-suggestion, psycho theraphy and shit like that.
Holy shit you're a fucking idiot along with everyone else still confused about this after all this time
Ocelot getting possessed by Liquid due to having his arm and hypnotizing himself are two separate things. Fucks sake they even show you his synthetic arm. Its in your fucking picture. How are people still this retarded?
>>343209702
I beat mission 31 today.
All I did was drop a tank for the mission. Got all side objectives, and S rank first try. Salyianthopus couldn't even damage the tank.
Did anyone play test this game? Or did they just throw random shit in and hope it would stick.
>>343208856
>>343208896
I'm not saying it's a BAD or illogical idea. It makes a lot of sense.
But I'm just tired of retards coming into these threads and acting like it's a confirmed fact and not just logical speculation.
>>343210295
PWBabbies that played/watched MGS4 and prior games on some shitty Let's Play channel.
>>343210210
to be honest its alot of naNOMacHINES SON memers
Ocelot has spooky powers
Solid is dying from a mutant FOXDIE
Nanomachines are injected into people as a killswitch for liquid to control the world
but memers just parrot shit without actually playing it
>>343205304
>>343206284
Would you mind giving me a link to a tape or transcript that mentions parasites being the source of anyone but The End's powers?
>>343198786
It took WAY too long for someone to say nanomachines. Let this thread die, please.
>>343210518
The Pain was mentioned too. I don't think the tapes ever mention the others though.
The Fury was really the strangest and most insane of the bunch when I think about it.
>>343198786
>they revealed it was self-suggestion, psycho theraphy
>How did he sounded like Liquid then?
Seems like you answered your own question
>>343210394
There is no reason for them to go out of their way to make Ocelot's father a ghost unless it was to explain how he was being possessed by a ghost.
Also the MGS2 digital graphic novel actually has a scene where Liquid taunts Ocelot and the Sorrow calls Ocelot a disappointment for not being able to control ghosts properly. But that thing is 100% non canon.
>>343207935
Yeah, except it wasn't fun this time around.
In Peace Walker, you got to see your Motherbase grow. You got to use ZEKE.in deploy missions
You also got to battle your ZEKE. One of the things l loved was having my friends fight it. Shit was so cash.
>>343210725
If I recall, Codetalker speculated that the pain would have one that allowed pheremones to be created to allow control of hornets, but he even admitted to being unsure since, you know, its fragments at best
The end's is the only one who had a functional power codetalker could look into
Are people seriously trying to argue this?
It's because Kojima didn't think he'd get as far as fucking 4 and actually have to explain what happened in MGS2.
It's why he had to make it so that the comic relief in MGS3 turned out to be the bad guys.
>>343210932
PW was sweaty ass with shitty supporting characters and no-fun bosses. Even with co-op it was lame. The taped conversations were the only satisfying aspect for me.
>>343208462
acid 1 is pretty bad
acid 2 is awesome, they fixed the gameplay so its actually pretty engaging and also it's fun to see metal gear become insanely anime (revengence is also insanely anime but of a different type)
>>343198786
Three words.
VOCAL
CORDNANOMACHINES
>>343210210
You and me against the world, Anon.
>>343206574
It was extremely heavily implied in MGS3, where EVA all but outright states that The Boss is his mother. Since The Boss' long-term partner was The Sorrow, it naturally follows.
Because MGS2 was insanely fucking retarded to have Liquid posses Ocelot through his arm instead of just bringing him back, then 4 was the absolute peak of Kojima being a fucking retarded hack so he just said Ocelot was pretending and Liquid was never there so you shouldn't even be taking this writing seriously
>>343209871
If you think about it, the Venom Snake phantom twist really did nothing for the game. They could have just cut out that whole mission and nothing would have changed. It makes me wonder if Kojima was just a lucky hack with some of the earlier MGS titles.
>>343198786
Because mgs4 is not canon
>>343198857
>>343198786
I thought it was a combination of the 2?
He WAS actually getting possessed by liquid whilst he had liquid's real arm attached due to his connection to the spirit world (being the Sorrow's son)
sometime after MGS2 he cut the arm off and got a full cybernetic replacement (which is why his arm looks so strange in MGS4, there's no way in fuck that was ever liquid's real arm), but realized that pretending to be constantly possessed by liquid was a good ruse for the patriots, so he did the psycho therapy to make it seem as though he was still under liquid's control
>>343210210
>love MGS4 and believe it has as strong a metaplot as MGS2
>love MGSV despite it being unfinished and plagued with flaws
>love the Metal Gear series under Kojima's direction because it's never failed to both entertain me and make me feel things
Sometimes I feel so alone in this, but it's nice to know other people like things too.
>>343203221
Honestly, who doesn't have a huge crush on this?
>>343198786
It's mystery, I like it that way.
>ITT: retards taking FUCKING VIDEOGAMES way too seriously
>>343207473
>unironically mentioning act 3 as an example of something GOOD from MGS4
>>343211778
>4 was the absolute peak of Kojima being a fucking retarded hack
He didn't even want to direct MGS4, anon. This isn't even speculation, it should be common knowledge. He only re-attached himself to the project because he started getting death threats when he announced his lack of involvement.
>story about a tired man getting on in years committing to an obligation to embark on one final mission and wrap up the series of events he started with
>>343212380
1st part of Act 3 alone has more true non-linear challenging stealth than all of PW's gameplay combined, and you just have to follow robot balls which isn't hard at all.
>>343212017
Yeah, that is why he cut it off and replaced it completely for a bionic arm, he thought liquid was really possessing him while also undergoing hypnosis
>>343212468
wow that poor man, he got tons of money and critical praise from shitting out a bad game he didn't put any work into AND he got to jerk off to supermodels wearing mocap gear that leaves little to the imagination (he originally wanted them nude)
cry not for the coal miners and ditch diggers of the world, cry for the middle aged japanese man that has the nebulous title of "producer" which means he doesn't have to work 20 hours a day programming the game while sleeping in a cubicle
>>343212871
Nice post man but do you think you could squeeze in a few more fallacies
>>343212468
>Dont blame Kojima for making MGS2 retarded, he didnt want to write it!
>Dont blame Kojima for making MGS4 retarded, he didnt want to write it!
>Dont blame Kojima for making MGS5 retarded, he wasnt allowed to finish it!
why every mgs thread is a shitstorm?
man I fucking love MGSV, is my favorite after MGS3, actually the only one I like less is MGS4
But every fucking time a MGSV discussion comes up the thread becomes shit
>>343213148
Why are you summarising the one point I did make and accompanying it with two points I didn't?
>>343212983
The asian peoples are masters of torture, from the water torture that slowly drives you mad, to the bamboo torture that has you gradually have spikes grow further and further into your body
But the worst of all has to be being forced to produce a videogame that received near unanimous 10/10 scores when released and sold millions of copies. My heart goes out to hideo kojima for the suffering he has endured
>>343198786
can anyone tl;dr mgs5 Ground Zero to Phantom Pains?
>>343213193
Metal Gear has a passionate fanbase. Even the shitposters are passionate about it.
Take it as more of a compliment than anything else.
>>343212871
>Being this assblasted over another person's success
I bet you're one of those basement dwelling socialist bernouts aren't you.
>>343213527
Paz has a vagina bomb, Huey screws you over, and the doctor becomes Snake.
>>343213193
Because children are mad MGSV didn't live up to the fanfiction they constructed in their minds
They wanted muh reel bigbose and they didn't get it so they throw a temper tantrum
What were they thinking?
>>343213527
I'm just a little bit played like a fiddle,
open world a shit, plot is a riddle
>>343213860
Partly. Game has a lot of issues regardless of story expectations, though.
