>there are people on /v/ RIGHT NOW who think Doom is a 2D game
It's 2.5D
>implying it isnt
>>343091351
That was quick.
>>343091351
You move in 3 dimensions, so it's 3D
>>343091159
there are idiots everywhere OP, there's bound to be some on /v/
Where the fuck did this retarded shit come from? I'd assume Gay Theroy.
>>343091564
The engine renders a 3D space, but it's projected from a two-dimensional floor plan. LoS is parallel to the floor plan and walls were mandatory to be perpendicular to it. It was impossible to make any sort of ramps or apply different angles to look up and down.sage
If you move in 3 dimensions, it's a 3D game. It doesn't matter if objects/enemies render in 3D or not.
>>343091564
No you don't. The game doesn't actually calculate space in 3 dimensions, just renders it. If you look you'll notice that there is never a single point in the game where one walk able floor is over another. And in non source ports things like pain elementals and cacaodemons couldn't be run under or over.
>>343091564
>You move in 3 dimensions, so it's 3D
The jumping wasn't in the game originally.
>>343091919
So you're saying it's not 3d.
>>343091919
Looks like you need to go back to shitposting school.
>>343091883
Who gives a fuck? The only consequence of that is you can't go under other pieces of scenery, which is not necessary to make a game 3D.
It lets you move in 3D, the engine renders 3D, so it's 3D. Stop spouting dumb shit you learned off YouTube.
>>343092295
>It lets you move in 3D
No it doesn't, you can only move on 2 axes.
>>343092295
Compare doom levels to quake levels.
To dɘɒƚ ƚHiƨ ǫɒmɘ, you muƨƚ ʞill mɘ, ႱoHn Яomɘɿo
You can't even make a normal cube with 6 faces in DOOM, only in Quake.
>>343091883
>LoS is parallel to the floor plan and walls were mandatory to be perpendicular to it. It was impossible to make any sort of ramps or apply different angles to look up and down.
That doesn't mean it's not 3D, that just means there are engine limitations.
It utilized simple geometry in order to create a space of length, width and height, i.e. 3 fucking dimensions.
>infinite vertical autoaim
How could they get away with releasing such a low skill ceiling FPS?
>>343091953
So MGS2 and newer isn't 3D because you don't jump?
>>343091925
Why does the game have to calculate every bit of the scene for it to be a 3D game? What does that extra bit of processing add when the output is a 3D scene with height, width and depth?
What next, are 2D games only scroll vertically or horizontally 1D?
You notice how when you shoot at an enemy that's 'above' you, there's no pointing or even need for aiming?
It's cause the game has no third dimension. It's an illusion.
>>343092746
>Why does the game have to calculate every bit of the scene for it to be a 3D game?
So I can walk under a fucking catwalk.
>>343091159
I played the first chapter and then got pissed off I lost all my guns.
Does it get better.
>>343092740
They are 3D because you can move in 3 dimensions, even if there's no jumping, you can hang and drop from ledges.
>>343092390
So you have to be able to jump for it to be 3D. Got it.
>>343092509
Oh wow, Quake lets me go under other parts of the floor, clearly this is the deciding factor in what makes a game 3D.
>>343092880
No one gives a fuck if you can or can't.
>>343092961
You don't even get all guns in the first episode
>this thread is still going on
It fucking ended in the very first post, but everyone feels the need to be pretentious nonetheless.
Fuck all of you.
>>343093182
Because the first poster is objectively wrong.
>>343093041
I think you might be retarded
>>343091925
>The game doesn't actually calculate space in 3 dimensions
Yes, it does. The height difference of the floor for two different areas determines whether or not the player can cross from one to the other.
>>343093041
Quake had levels just as complex as doom, but you never needed a map because 3D design made things work together more naturally. You can't do physics. You can't have enemies that rely on height
Dwarf Fortress is more of a 3D game than Doom
>>343093134
Yeah but I don't get why I lost all my guns its pretty BS desu.
>>343091159
The old Doom and Duke Nukem games were fucking shitty garbage.
>>343093248
Great argument.
>>343093302
Why does that make it not 3D?
this discussion is so fucking stupid
Doom has a lot more in common with literally every 3d shooter that came after it than it did with any 2D game before it
So maybe it's just "fake" 3D, but that literally doesn't fucking matter for anyone except spergs
>>343093041
No, you need to be able to move in 3d, which doom only allowed with a jumping mod.
the definitive answer to this should be: can it render a cube and have the player rotate around all of its six sides? if the answer is yes, then it is indeed a 3D game
if the answer is no like Doom or Starfox SNES or whatever then it isn't a 3D game
>>343093407
>Why does the game not being 3d make it not 3d?
>>343093407
Because you can't do shit that actual 3d lets you do. You can't climb up some stairs and on a sea of enemies to get to the other side.
>>343093612
>or Starfox SNES
Why do people always have to slip bait into correct arguments?
>>343093479
So, your argument is, it doesn't make a difference if a game is 2D or 3D?
It definitely does though. 2D Tomb Raider would play incredibly differently than 3D.
>>343093617
Nothing about that post listed a reason why Doom isn't 3D.
>i-it has no physics!
This has what effect on its status as a 3D game?
>>343093872
Positioning along the Z axis is meaningless in Doom's engine. It literally doesn't compute height differences.
>>343093872
>Oh wow, Quake lets me go under other parts of the floor, clearly this is the deciding factor in what makes a game 3D.
Clearly, moving in 3d has an effect on a game's status as a 3d game.
>>343093994
>>343093612
You just made that definition up based on absolutely nothing.
The definition of a 3D game is a game that operates in 3 dimensions. Doom does that and anyone who claims otherwise is talking shit.
I don't care if there were engine limitations, that doesn't change the fact that the game space has length, width and height and every object in the game has an x, y and z coordinate.
>>343093659
You can climb up stairs to get to higher levels. Like it or not, it's 3D.
>>343094097
But you move in 3D in Doom. Moving under another pathway isn't what makes something 3D.
>>343094109
>talking about Doom
>posts Quake webm
I don't understand
>>343094170
Can it do the post above you?
>>343094170
>The definition of a 3D game is a game that operates in 3 dimensions. Doom does that and anyone who claims otherwise is talking shit.
So you're just pretending to be retarded then?
>>343094248
>You can climb up stairs to get to higher levels
But you don't. It appears to be higher because of the very clever way the rendering engine works. It's not actually higher though.
If you want to be really pedantic about it, you could argue that all video games are two dimensional because they exist on a two-dimensional circuit board and all computer processes are just organized abstractions
>>343093994
>It literally doesn't compute height differences.
Why do people keep saying this? Have you ever played Doom? It does not take place on a flat plane. There is height in the game and height differences are taken into account, it's the difference between a step and a wall.
>>343094281
Why does it need to?
>>343094251
It wasn't meant to reply to anyone, I just figured it was relevant to the thread.
>>343094248
Maybe I didn't play the level where you could move in 3d, which one was it?
>>343094170
You clearly have never made a doom map if what you think you just said is accurate.
wait a minute...
>>343094397
>When you climb up stairs, you don't actually
Flawless logic there.
>>343094404
But that's not what it means, so no, it's not correct.
>>343094416
So when I fall in the pit in Indiana Jones on the atari 2600 am I playing a 3D game?
>>343094416
There's a reason why there wasn't 2D aiming back then. Have you ever tried looking up or down in games that used this same algorythm? Everything goes tits up.
You can shoot at a demon atop a high pillar from several feet below without regards to the Z axis.
>>343094508
Does every floor and ceiling in a map have to be at the same height in Doom? That's the 3rd dimension, idiot.
>>343094563
He's right, you don't actually move up, as doom has no concept of up or down, it just uses trick to simulate height, but internally it's just nadling two axes.
>>343094469
I'm guessing you haven't played the game?
>>343094684
Yeah you clearly haven't ever made a doom map.
>>343094654
>You can shoot at a demon atop a high pillar from several feet below without regards to the Z axis.
But you can't walk up there, can you?
I guess it does compute height difference after all.
>>343094653
No, because you're still moving on 2 axes, left/right, up/down.
>>343094653
Are you legitimately retarded?
>it totally plays like 3d guys
>except there's no need to aim vertically
>and you can't stack terrain
>and you can't have chocolate demons flying over a horde of imps.
>and shit like grenade physics in quake are impossible
Move over Descent, there's a new 3d game in town.
>>343094563
Well, yeah. You also don't really shoot demons.
You'd never call Worms 3D because the worms have shading, this is just a more advanced version of that.
Doom rendering is really very clever, and you'd be doing yourself a favour to look it up.
>>343094739
I did, that's why i'm so surprised to hear that. Could you show a video of said 3d level?
>>343093041
>No one gives a fuck if you can or can't
That's literally your argument?
>>343094856
>>343094868
The logic was that it LOOKS 3d, and that whether it actually is 3d or not doesn't matter. So it's the same damn thing. As someone else said, fucking dwarf fortress is more 3d than doom.
>>343091159
Including the creators
>>343093506
there's stairs in doom
wtf are you people on about?
>>343094728
So what?
Did you know in every modern game the viewport technically never moves, the whole world is moving around it? Does that now mean all walking simulators are really just standing simulators? Computers are all about simulation, not accurate recreation.
>>343094847
>what are collisions and impassable terrains
I guess every SNES RPG that uses impassable cliffaces are also 3D then
>>343091159
There's a difference between a game being rendered in 3d, and being 3d because of movement.
Doom is neither.
I guess games using Mode 7 are 3D too.
>>343091159
>right now there are people as stupid as op on /v/
>>343091919
Pretty much. A 3D game could be fully billboarded like Paper Mario.
>>343095172
But can you move the viewport up and down in doom?
>>343094397
Name a few 3D games that doesn't render the character as the center and move all the world around him.
>>343095350
Paper mario is rendered in 3d though, not a good example.
>>343091953
There are ramps and drops. still moving on the z axis
Hey "Doom isn't 3D" plebs, watch these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxox5EmeEco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GJ-gzna_dE
>>343095591
>game theory
That desperate to not be wrong?
>>343093019
In doom you can move up and down stairs.
>>343095591
Game Theory is a retard though.
>>343095591
>Carmack has said it isn't 3d
>there's an entire chapter of masters of doom talking about how it tricked the illusion of 3d.
>>343093264
>Hotline Miami is 3D guys!
>>343095714
And it doesn't affect gameplay at all. The fucking invisible walls in the fuchsia gym are just as 3d as doom.
>>343095707
>>343095742
You didn't even look at the video, you dipshits. That's not a Game Theory video, despite what the title says. In fact, he's responding to a Game Theory video that supported YOUR position.
>>343096139
It doesn't fucking matter because this isn't a theory thing, the fucking man who made the game has said that the game isn't 3D.
This isn't something people have to figure out, we already know the answer.
>>343091159
It's a half press
>>343095352
You could in build engine games, which were as 3D as Doom is.
What you are talking about is a render limitation, not a game logic limitation. For the record, looking up and down in build engine games resulted in horrendous distortion.
>>343096262
Yes, I've read it. He dumbed it down so people like you can understand it.
You clearly just feel like an idiot for not even taking more than a split-second look at the video's title and are trying to save face by saying "I-it doesn't even matter!"
>>343094985
It is?
In doom you can move left/right, up/down, forward/backward.
Three dimensions.
X/Y/Z
3D
>>343096031
Doesn't matter if it affects the gameplay or not.
If I unbind mouse up and down in BF4, does that make it 2D?
>it's the daily reminder that "no game is 3D because your screen is 2D" thread
>>343096716
You cannot move up/down. You are wrong.
>>343096578
>I-i know I was wrong, but ur dumb because u didn't watch my video which clearly made itself out to be bullshit just from the title.
Doom is not 3D, end of story. I'm not gonna waste my time watching 2 videos trying to disprove something that everyone with half a brain already knows is true.
>>343096716
>If I unbind mouse up and down in BF4, does that make it 2D?
No, because you can still have some guy trying to make his epic youtube video drop a vehicle out of the sky onto your head. You can still have grenades have physics. When you make a building it has actual floors that are over and under each other.
>>343096812
Let me just jump DOWN here so I can move UP those stairs.
>>343096931
Now get on top of the building
>>343096871
>LA LA LA I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH
>>343096931
But you haven't moved up. Your Y is still exactly 0.
Make a descent level in doom, I'll wait.
Don't you move on one plane?
>>343097017
He can't because it's a limitation with the rendering engine, not because it's not 3D.
>>343097087
Wow that's literally just one step below posting nothing but a smug anime face as a reply.
Face it you got into a massive argument over something you knew nothing about and you got proved wrong. Get over it.
>>343091159
there are no 3D games, if you think that the picture on ur 2D monitor is 3D ur dumb
>>343096931
There is no height variable. That's one reason why you can shoot at everything in front of you and it will hit regardless if it would normally be too high/low to be in your line of fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAAeLNAfSYc
>>343097253
I will when you watch the video, because it proves you dead wrong. If you refuse to just because you mistook it for a game theory video, you're just admitting you don't want to listen to evidence.
>>343097275
What if I have a 3D monitor?
well it looks as if you're moving up and down stairs and as if you're falling down a ledge
that's 3D enough for me
Wait how did they do falls then?
>>343097409
Lol but I'm not wrong and I have a better source than some dumbass on youtube, the guy who made the fucking game itself.
>>343097275
but they're 3D rendered models
>>343097443
They didn't.
http://www.classicdoom.com/doommyth.htm
>Myth: The Doom environment is actually 2-dimensional (a horizontal plane). A
vertical dimension, or "Z dimension", is represented by the game's graphics,
but is an illusion. A vertical dimension is not a real factor in game physics
or game play.
>Truth: Doom is not 3-dimensional to the extent that Quake and similar games
are; The Doom world is far less complex, and much more restrictive. However,
this does not mean that Doom is a 2-dimensional game. There are objects and
events, calculations and variables throughout Doom that deal with 3 spacial
dimensions.
Some examples: Projectiles may pass above/below monsters or players; A player
can run across a gap or pit without picking up items on the ground directly
below; A tunnel or doorway that's just tall enough for a Sergeant to pass
through may be too low for a Cyberdemon to pass through; A player standing a
few paces back from the edge of a tall cliff may remain unseen by monsters on
the ground near the base of the cliff, but may be visible to monsters further
away from the base.
The heights of objects and obstacles, projectiles, monsters, players, windows,
crushing ceilings, and so on, all have a real effect on what can happen, and
what you can do, in the Doom environment.
Actors are also not infinitely tall.
>>343097557
Watch the videos and I'll admit defeat. Watch the videos.
>>343097410
it's still just an illusion, if u want 3d then make a working hologram
If it's 3d why did they wait until quake to start stacking shit on each other?
>>343091818
Some dumb-ass youtube video. Anything that didn't use the built-in features of the video cards to render the 3d, was accused of not really being 3d. As if being crappy primitive 3d was somehow not really 3d.
>>343096926
>No, because you can still have some guy trying to make his epic youtube video drop a vehicle out of the sky onto your head.
Unrelated
>You can still have grenades have physics.
Even a mod like Brutal doom have grenades, and gibs bouncing around.
>. When you make a building it has actual floors that are over and under each other.
Having layers over each other is not a sole reason for it being 3D.
>>343097017
Sure, put some stairs or an elevator on the wall then.
upload the WAD to some file sharing site.
I'll be waiting.
>>343097108
You mean Z you retard.
>>343097287
>That's one reason why you can shoot at everything in front of you and it will hit regardless if it would normally be too high/low to be in your line of fire.
webm
>>343097439
That's what makes it 3D.
>>343097631
And that.
So which one was the first real 3D game? Descent?
>>343097824
>LA LA LA
>>343097675
If you want to be real technical you have to have 4d eyes to see true 3d
>>343097921
>I'll be waiting. for you to do something you said you couldn't do
Why do you put stairs up there and go up top?
What's next, arguing whether or not Doomguy is a character?
>>343097975
>No really the world is flat!
>I don't care that you have reputable sources while all I have is one autist on youtube
>Watch the autists videos even though their wrong!
I have better ways to spend my time
>>343098091
I'm sorry, I don't speak stroke.
It's not 3D, it just looks 3D.
>>343097921
>image isn't warping
That's not the original engine retard.
>>343098096
He doesn't speak so his voice isn't calculated this he isn't real, the weapon isn't his.
-2.5D believer
>>343098136
And yet you're spending your time posting reaction images on a Thai woodworking board.
We can go on like this all day, but everyone who likes looking at actual debates thinks you're an idiot.
>>343098293
He has a face
>>343098251
That makes no sense.
>>343098179
Now put some stairs up to the roof.
>>343094170
Nigger listen.
Quake is a like a real cube you can hold in your hand, you can see and rotate it around and it has 6 sides.
Doom is like a drawing of a cube. It looks 3d, and you can see the sides, but it's not 3d. its an illusion
>>343098263
>Half-Life 1 isn't Half-Life because it doesn't use the Id Tech engine they had at the start.
If I showed people that video and asked them if that is doom they would say it's doom.
Therefore it's doom.
It's running the doom wad files.
>>343098716
come back with that goal post, and make the stairs I told you to make.
>>343094397
Except you do. Try walking down a flight of stairs, then before reaching the bottom stop holding foward. You will still move because you built up momentum while going downwards. The game simulates gravity, and thus keeps track of vertical position ==> it's 3D.
>>343097921
>brutal doom
>>343098746
You're saying a cube in Quake exists in reality and is a physical object you can interact with? Well, that's just objectively wrong.
Doom and Quake are both as 3D as computer graphics can get. They just use different rendering methods.
>>343098858
>brutal "doom"
Thanks for proving my point.
Define 3D
Can you move left and right in doom?
Can you move forward and backward in doom?
Can you move up and down in doom?
>>343099021
No you retarded nigger, it's an analogy. You know, that thing you use to break down more complex explanations so retards understand.
Doom uses an illusion to make it seem like it's 3d, but it's all rendered on a 2d plane. Quake is rendered on a 3d plane. That's the difference
>>343099296
Yes to all.
>>343099371
No, both are "illusions", they're just illusions that use different methods to get similar results. Why is this so hard to understand?
Fuck it, I went and browsed through the actual Doom source code.
You know what I found? References to z position and height littered throughout but avoided where possible. It looks like a hack on already existing code, I'm guessing Wolf 3D.
>hurry doom didn't have a z axis
Yes it did. Just because the renderer didn't always take into account the z axis in the same way as a modern 3d game does? Doesn't mean there were no z calculations. You could fall, and the game would literally take into account the distance you fell. There's no fall damage in vanilla however there is downward acceleration and doom guy makes a noise when you fall from a certain height. Downward momentum is simulated. Fuck the auto aim and projectiles wouldn't even work if there was truly no z axis. Fireballs curve upwards and downwards in an arc not parallel to the floor. Your projectiles will hit a wall until you get close enough, and only then will it shoot upwards or downwards. Just because you can't look up or down due to primitive rendering does not mean there's no z axis. Vertical auto aim was a compensation for the player not being able to look up or down, it's not because you and the enemy are literally on the same plane.
>>343099440
Bingo
>>343099610
The results are not similar. Sure, technically both are displayed on a screen and as such they're a 2d image, but the world that's rendered is rendered differently. Doom is rendered on a 2d plane. Quake is rendered on a 3d plane. That's the difference. Doom uses enemy sprites. Quake uses enemy models. Notice you every item in doom always faces you. It's a sprite. In quake ammo boxes and such are models. Get over yourself and accept reality.
>>343099941
>Doom is rendered on a 2d plane
It doesn't matter, because the end result is a 3D environment. See the posts above you.
>Doom uses enemy sprites. Quake uses enemy models
Paper Mario uses sprites to represent characters, I suppose that makes it a 2D game, too, huh?
I think it's more accurate to say that the maps are rendered in 2d, but the game does some 3d calculations in the background to make the 2d feel more like 2d. It's wrong to say doom is a 100% 2d game like wolfenstein, wolfenstein had no z axis while doom does.
>>343100093
It does matter you moron. It's a pseudo 3d environment. It's not real 3d. It looks like it and functions similarly (not exactly) and as such it isn't 3d. You wouldn't call a burger without bread a burger just because it has the other ingredients.
>>343099941
>Quake is rendered on a 3d plane.
There is not such thing as a 3D plane. By definition a plane is 2D.
>Doom uses enemy sprites. Quake uses enemy models.
This is utterly irrelevant. Shadow Warrior uses voxels but it's still the same sort of "fake 3D" as Doom.
>>343100461
What about that burger with the buns made of fried chicken? It's still a burger.
>>343100461
Define burger.
Mine have mushrooms on it. If your don't, then yours isn't 3D.
>>343100461
What are you talking about with this "pseudo 3D environment"? It looks, acts, and feels like a 3D environment, what the hell is pseudo about it?
>>343093359
You're dead anon, they killed you
>>343100528
Two planes intersecting can only happen in a 3d space. Stop being pedantic.
The thing with the sprites is that they always face you no matter what direction you look at them. That's a hint about how the system works.
>>343100634
No, it isn't you fat prick
>>343100796
So the head on a Creeper in minecraft turns into 2D when it looks at you but it's body remain 3D?
>>343100903
That post started with the food analogy. If there's someone with a weight problem and food on his mind here, it's that anon.
>>343100796
What's your favorite 2D game? Mine's Paper Mario.
>>343100796
>Two planes intersecting can only happen in a 3d space. Stop being pedantic.
Yeah? And? And it's not pedantry to point out a contradiction in terms, especially when it makes it apparent you have no idea what you are talking about.
>The thing with the sprites is that they always face you no matter what direction you look at them. That's a hint about how the system works.
They coded it to work this way because the sprites have no depth, that does not mean the rest of the game has no depth. There are plenty of "not fake" 3D games that do the exact same thing.
Your argument is retarded.
>>343101042
Mine is Crysis.
Just look at the trees if you play the games on low.
Wow it's so 2D not even doom can compete.
But 2D mario paper man is also a good game.
>>343092880
Actually! There are tricks you can do with the build engine to allow you to construct catwalks.
>>343092295
Stop spouting shit about an engine you don't know jack shit about. It's just robotron with a raycaster. That's not true 3D.
>>343101042
>3rd person
>1st person
good comparison there, really nailing it today
>>343091159
>there are people on /v/ RIGHT NOW who didn't play the patrician Descent, in all its unarguably full-3D, 6DoF glory.
>>343091883
There are still height(see: z) values that change what's rendered on screen based on your current height, as well as affect the physics of collidable objects (e.g. projectiles only harming you if you are within their height threshold). It's a gross oversimplification of 3D rendering, but it is, for all intents and purposes, 3D. Really, every kind of rendering, whether 2D or 3D, is all smoke and mirrors. Arguing semantics isn't going to get anywhere.
>>343101487
inb4 it's not 3D because you're always on X/Y/Z 0/0/0 and it's the world that is moving around you or some other retard retort.
>>343101505
It gives the illusion of 3D with cheap tricks because they wanted the game to run on toasters. How does nobody get this?
>>343101348
If it results in a 3D environment, it's 3D. Doom's engine results in a 3D environment. Pull your head out of your ass.
>>343091883
It's still a 3D engine meaning it's a 3D game. It's almost like building a 2D game in Unity. You're playing around two axis but there's still a third one present that simply isn't being used
>>343091159
> there are people on this board that believe 3d games exist when shaders create the illusion of a z axis
>>343101191
>the sprites have no depth
let's think abut why the sprites have no depth.
>is it because they thought it would look better this way
no, I don't think so
>is it because they only had a sprite guy and not a person who worked models
maybe
>is it because the engine isn't really 3d and rendering an item with depth would have required too much processing power for it to be feasible
ding ding ding
>>343101673
They're not "cheap tricks". In Doom the computer still has to render the scene via 3D projection. Why is this so hard to understand
>>343101865
Oh man, so how about that Paper Mario?
>>343101710
No it fucking doesn't. It uses ray casting calculated from a 2D template. If it were true 3D, it wouldn't be nearly as popular because the average consumer couldn't run it.
>>343102086
You're an idiot for thinking there's only one way to render 3D.
Rendered 3D
Programmed 2D
wow, how stupid people can get?
>>343095090
This.
There are stairs and elevators in Doom.
Do people believe that it's only "3D" if there are rendered polygons? Is that the only definition of a "3D game"?
>>343102208
THIS
>>343102239
>3D rendering is the 3D computer graphics process of automatically converting 3D wire frame models into 2D images with 3D photorealistic effects or non-photorealistic rendering on a computer.
>>343102186
It's not rendering 3D. It's drawing in 2 point perspective.
>>343101865
Mario Kart 64 also uses prerendered sprites instead of models for almost everything. Oh man, check out how 2D this is.
>>343101865
You do know sprites are still used today, right? Particle effects, for example. And they still have zero depth.
Want to know why? Because they are planes and planes are 2D.
>is it because they thought it would look better this way
>no, I don't think so
And by the way, this is exactly why sprites are always facing the camera. What exactly would be the point of revealing that a sprite representing a 3D object is really a 2D object to the player? You could if you wanted to, but that would be stupid.
>>343102480
That's just another way of rendering 3D. Simple 3D, but 3D nonetheless.
>>343102036
>is it because they thought it would look better this way
Ding ding ding
>>343102482
>3rd person
>1st person
really, stop trying so hard
>>343093342
>Meme Tech Tips
Any and all opinions you have are to be discarded
>>343102482
Not that anon, but the engines are completely different. Having billboard sprites isn't the only qualification. Having what is essentially robotron being drawn with perspective without the use of polygons is a 2D game.
>>343102645
Not an argument. In first person, the camera is located in front of the character's head. In third person, the camera is located behind the player's head. That doesn't change a thing.
>>343102217
Progressively stupider the longer any thread goes on.The only question is whether it's a linear or exponential growth.
>>343102770
I've said it what feels like thousands of times at this point, but polygons aren't the only way to render 3D.
>>343102579
It's not even 3D though. Not on any technical level. It's just calculating a 2D drawing with vanishing points based on a top-down grid every frame.
>>343099928
I can tell you're a huge fucking faggot just from your webm. You love cock don't you? Not memeing here, I genuinely think you're a homosexual because of that post.
>>343102892
But it's not rendering 3D, and so far polygons are the only way 3D can be rendered in real time without an illusion such as what doom uses.
>>343102971
>I can't argue against something that is proven right in front of my eyes so I'll call him gay, that'll teach him not to be correct around me.
>>343103129
Then CoD4 isn't 3D because the big smoke explosion when the building collapses is 2D and it is always facing you the same way doom sprites does when you look down.
>>343101926
>3D projection
>>343103129
>so far polygons are the only way 3D can be rendered in real time
What are voxels?
I don't understand how someone so lacking in knowledge can be so sure of themselves.
>>343103158
No I don't care about this 'debate' and I'm not the guy you were replying to. I'm just genuinely asking if you're homosexual. I'm genuinely wondering if I can tell a faggot just from a post like that. Your new picture also makes me think you're a faggot.
Just answer honestly; are you a homosexual or not?
Its not 3D.
Its, by all technical programming matters, 2D that uses a pretty fascinating method of rendering to make it look like the existence of 3D space, yet there is none.
Its the reason Doom can run on calculators and ATMs.
You can google this and find tons of interesting articles about how it all works.
Pretty sure the guys just baiting at this point, fellas.
>>343103360
It's amusing when you can spot a kid that just saw his first pube the other day, trying to act tough on the internet.
>>343103291
I didn't even make that argument.
Cod4 is 3D because its architecture is based in a calculated 3D space. Doom is 2D because it's architecture is based in 2D space. Being 2D makes a game 2D, not billboard sprites.
>>343103484
I'll take your refusal to answer as a definite yes.
>>343103476
Baiting?
I'm tossing the whole bucket with worms at the fishes and let them fight over it.
>>343103351
I should've said the only method that doesn't look like complete ass.
>>343103594
If that makes your daddy sleep without easier.
Believe what you want, you've been imagining things up this whole time already, why use your low IQ now?
>>343103476
>Its, by all technical programming matters, 2D that uses a pretty fascinating method of rendering to make it look like the existence of 3D space, yet there is none.
The best way to describe the way Doom works is to say it's 3D only when it absolutely has to be. 3D is not a fundamental part of the engine, but it is used whenever needed.
>>343103632
If you really wanna get bites, you should try the same OP post in /AGDG/ on /vg/.
The enginedevs there will go berserk.
any minute now. :^)
>>343093994
Then how can fireballs fly above you?
What is 4d.
Like if 3d is up down forward back and sideways thenwhat the fuck can you add to that, i mean i've never lived in anything other than three dimensional space but i literally cannot even begin to comprehend how any of this shitworks, especially when you can hit 7d, how the fuck do you even prove these things?
>>343103743
>why use your low IQ now?
>If that makes your daddy sleep without easier.
>>343101673
>It gives the illusion of 3D with cheap tricks
You know that's how every single 3D game engine ultimately works right? Unless you have some kind of magic 3-dimensional hologram screen or something.
>>343103925
>>343103979
Like clockwork.
>>343094897
>>343097172
>>343101487
This. Fuck the whole argument in this thread; just play a real man's game.
>there are people on /v/ right now who will engage in this debate despite no prior interest or knowledge of how the engine works
>>343104027
>implying there was an argument
lol. I just asked if you're a homo and you refused to answer (which basically answered the question anyway)
>>343102546
Its funny because the majority of 3d games still use static objects for the background like psx. How else do you think naughty dog pushes the polygons they do? They then layer dynamic objects over top. When ever a game feels like its on rails like the last of us, that's how they do it. However when you learn apis the first thing they always tell you is they aren't 3d. So arguing over a z axis is retarded because monitors are a 2d plane. Even vr is just 2 rendered planes
>>343093182
But it's not 2.5D, because there's no such thing as half of a Z axis.
Get fucked.
>>343103954
>I only play on a variant of zdoom
>>343104118
>having to say something to prove something.
>>343104214
Lol play e1m1 genius
You can run right under the imp's fireball
>>343103963
You know how you make a square into a cube by adding another axis? Instead of just x and y it's x, y and z? Well, add another axis to a cube and you have a tesseract, a 4D shape. Don't even bother to try to comprehend it, out brains are utterly incapable of doing so. It's only really of interest to mathematics.
>>343103989
What distinguishes a 3D game from a 2D game is actually calculating 3D space, not just looking like its calculating it.
>>343104118
*And a retard posturing about 'IQ' shouldn't be making retarded sentences. It's not quite 'like le clockwork' when you're pointing out the irony of an obvious flaming faggot ;^)
>this thread
Guys, move on. It's either a bait thread or OP is a complete mong.
>>343104208
henry pls
>>343104587
tripfag go home
>>343104706
but it's the off-season and i'm bored
>>343104858
tripfag go home
>>343104973
don't respond to it
ignore it and it'll go away
>>343103476
The renderer may use some neat trickery to make a pseudo 3D space from the 2D map, but the game still includes the z-axis
>>343091564
You can't jump. Yes, you move in elevation due to stairs and falls, but you can't decide to move up & down whenever you feel like it. So you can really only decide movement in 2 dimensions. Ergo, 2D.
hm
Asthe non-retardedpeople in the thread have stated before, Doom is neither fully 2d nor fully 3d, but rather 2d with simulated 3d elements.
While it may have a height map as well as what seems to be 3d space, these are purely technical tricks to simulate a 3d environment in what is otherwise a 2d game.
This mixture of 2d and 3d is dubbed "2.5d", as while the game may seem to have 3d elements, it still is in all technical respects still a 2d game.
Going any farther than this and you get into an argument of semantics, whether or not a convincing approximation of 3d counts as 3d or not.
>>343104049
Is this much of a shock?
This is /v/, who shitpost about games they've never player on the daily.
It wouldn't even surprise me now if the majority of the site hasn't played Doom.
>>343097921
>Polygon plays Brutal Doom
>>343105863
Was DooM written in C?
this thread is fucking embarrassing, /v/
if you think that youre wrong, all you have to do is stop talking.
>>343106638
>if you think that youre wrong
That's the problem, everyone here thinks he's right
/v/ i need some WADS
