I finished Umineko and I have a few questions
What was Beato's reason forkilling everyone unless they solve the epitaph, and challenging Battler to the game? My only guess is that it was somehow supposed to make Battler remember his promise which doesn't make sense.Does the game between Battler and Beato actually happen, or is it all in Ange's head and Toya's forgeries? If it does happen, where does it take place, in the afterlife?How didn't Erika know that Kanon and Shannon are the same person? She did meet them, it should be obvious. Battler didn't seem to know either at first since he didn't mention it.
In the end,does Toya "die" and becomes Battler again?
Did you missed the whole point of the novel?
If a tree falls down in a forest and everyone is killed in a brilliant explosion but no one lives to tell the tale does it really matter?
>>342960801
Is the point that the truth of the past doesn't matter and lies that don't hurt anyone are okay?
>>342960651
Beatodidn't kill anyone, as far as I remember.It's all in your head.It was an illusion, also Erika is a piece from the gamemaster, so she just knows.
Last answer is the spoiled pic.
Beatrice is kinda cute.
>>342961237
She really is. Kinzostruck goldby meeting her
>>342960651
Read the last few chapters of ep8 Manga, it will answer all your questions. Other people have already answered, but the manga will help you understand better what happened because there are extra scenes likeBattler recognized Beato's voice as Shannon.
>>342961237
i wanna analfuck her
>>342961237
for aboy
>>342961883
Can't fuck what doesn't exist, anon.
>>342962020
Should say the same about the girl you posted
It wasGohdaall the time.
Is there a comprehensive torrent for these games? Usually don't have trouble with this stuff but all the various translations and editions and the game being in different parts is kind of confusing.
>>342960651Yasu, after solving the epitaph and earning the title of family head, the island, and all of the gold, is mind-broken by the revelation of his/her birth. Being a physically and mentally deformed product of incest-rape, compounded by the fact that he/she was forced to live as the opposite sex in order to escape detection from Natsuhi and Krauss on top of her/his obvious disconnect from reality and reliance on alternate personalities just to be able to interact with people somewhat normally, made her/him come up with the plan to kill everyone on the island. One of the things Kinzo revealed to him/her was the existence of the tunnels and explosives underneath the island when recounting his experiences with the original Beatrice.Also, the BeatoxBattler meta-world interactions are all a forgery created by Toya.Erika is an extension of Bernkastel and none of her interactions with the family members should be taken as truth. She was not on the island at all.Battler is "dead". All that's left is the new personality "Toya".
>>342962127
This shit never gets old.
They should make an anime just to make this as the solution
>>342962127
Every thread until we reach the Golden Land.
>>342960651
This is not Video Games
>>342962352At the end of the 4th game, Beato says that the murders wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Battler's sin. At some point it was also said that they wouldn't have occured if Battler came back a year before or after 1986. We can disregard it as bullshit written by Toya or something but that doesn't feel right./spoiler]
>>342962352
Damn, son.
If everything you see as piece Battler is legit as the "detective", how does Shkanon work?
>>342962956It's very possible, even probable, that this had something to do with it. Yasu had enough tragedy and mind-fuckery to go around. So while it is probably true, we are hearing about it in a forgery written by Toya, from his understanding of accounts. He was probably told about Yasu's solving of the epitaph not long before the island exploded.
>>342963135
I don't think they ever appear in front of him at the same time so it kinda works.
What are some good mystery novels? Reading this made me wanna read them and feel stupid when I fail to solve them.
Ryu07 made everything much clearer in the EP8 manga with some additional content that takes the ambiguity out of Yasu's reasoning. If you've finished reading the VN and done puzzling it out for yourself it only makes sense to go read the manga. It also contains the breakdown for what happened in episode 5. The 7 manga also clarifies Clair's and Will's slightly ambiguous breakdown of all the previous games.
>>342965926
>slightly ambiguous
That didn't really make any sense at all, he just said "Illusion to illusion" and some other nonsense for every mystery.
>>342963282
>>342962956
>>342962352
Reading these was a good reminder how shit the writing was in Umineko. Really glad the second half of the series bombed hard in Japan, it was terrible
>>342960651
just read the manga it's less retarded than the novel
>>342960651
Just watch this 8-hour long series of videos to properly understand Umineko
>>342967914
Whoops forgot link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHMta4YbjSM
>>342966670
I understood the great majority of them. However I didn't read it all at once and had time to think about each episode and talk about it with other people. If you already suspect the solution or have ideas then it isn't really vague anymore. For instance episode 2's 1st twilight. I never figured out that Rosa just straight up lied about the lock on the chapel door and there was no red saying it was locked on my own. I read it online and it immediately clicked with me as almost certainly correct. Episode 7's illusion to illusion the gold truth locks the door or whatever made it certain in my mind.
how do i play this series? where do i begin? is there a ppastebin?
>>342968372
Either download it from nyaa or wait until the steam relase of the first half that will come out next month
>>342968220
That makes sense. I got to that part many months after reading eps 1,2 and 3 so I didn't remember much about them.
>>342968372
Download Umineko no naku koro ni and Umineko no naku koro ni chiru. I got them both on fuwanovel.
>>342968050
You weren't kidding about it being 8 hours long
>>342968587
which is better translated
>>342968050
>that pic
muh dick
>>342968587
>playing with steam version's shitty sprites
>>342969070
Mangagamer claims Steam will have a better translation, but it will be missing CGs and voice acting
The CGs might not seem like much but some of them really add to what is happenning
Steam will also have the worst sprites, so since the original version is simply better and the translation is pretty much perfect I don't see any reason you should get the steam one
You should keep in mind that Umineko is about 120 hours long if you aren't a fast reader and it has some really slow parts
>>342960651
Go read the ep8 manga chapter that pretty much explains what happened in ep 6 and ep 7 without all the symbolism.
>>342960651
>What was Beato's reason for killing everyone unless they solve the epitaph, and challenging Battler to the game? My only guess is that it was somehow supposed to make Battler remember his promise which doesn't make sense.
She decided to abandon herself to fate and hope for a miracle. Like Kinzo, she believed a miracle is only worth anything if the chances of it happening are abysmal and the stakes are high.
>Does the game between Battler and Beato actually happen, or is it all in Ange's head and Toya's forgeries? If it does happen, where does it take place, in the afterlife?
It's both. The meta-world is both the "real" world and not the real world at the same time, depending on what angle you look at it.
>How didn't Erika know that Kanon and Shannon are the same person? She did meet them, it should be obvious. Battler didn't seem to know either at first since he didn't mention it.
Same reason lots of people didn't know Kanon and Shannon are the same person.
>In the end, does Toya "die" and becomes Battler again?
The Battler inside Tohya "dies", and Tohya can finally be himself
>>342966670
Except those made complete sense unless you were retarded
>>342969560
>explains what happened in ep 6 and ep 7 without all the symbolism.
still can't believe the average umineko reader was so stupid the author had to ask someone else to make a "umineko for dummies" manga
>>342960651
Is there any worthy waifu in this vr?
>>342969421
steam version has the original sprites
>>342962121
Erika did exist, she fell from the boat during the storm, if she drowned or got to the island is another matter
>>342960651
Anon, pls. The answer to all your questions islove.
without love...
Magic doesn't exist you fucking retards.
>>342973597
Iru! Iruuu! uuuu uuuuuu!
>>342972760
there's loadsa waifus in this vn
>>342973597
Shut up
>>342963904
bumping this
I won't have access to a PC for a few weeks so I'd like to get some reading done
Beato is besto
anyone else plan on re-reading it when it comes out on steam?
its such a fun ride
>>342975959
No.
>>342976248
I'm especially interested in the "updated translation" the Steam version supposedly has, so I will be re-reading for sure.
>>342976462
Yes
>>342976248
>>342976583
>75% of the text has been edited
hell yeah
I wonder how many tulpas ryukishi has.
>>342975257
Agatha Christie
>>342977081
they are not tulpas anon, they are imaginary friends
Rosatrice is the only valid theory
There are still people in 2015+1 who acts like fucking GOATS and get tricked by Ryukishi
>>342961020
The main themes I got out of umineko was the idea of real objective truth unable to exist in the world. The closest you can get to red truth in real life is the golden truth, the truth that everybody agrees on and accepts, the truth that you personally hold in your heart, but is subject to change.
Also, just because people do bad things doesn't completely discredit the person's character. 'Without love, it cannot be seen'. If you see the bad in someone and completely shun out everything else, you'll never be able to truly understand them.
On a broader note, I really loved umineko. It's one of the greatest stories I've experienced and it really changed the way I thought about people. I still think about it and listen to that soundtrack a lot, even though I read it years ago.
>>342963904
Kara No Shoujo is decent, it gets a bit too dramatic in a stupid way towards the end
>>342977657
I'll get a few of her books, thanks.
>>342978967
I played that, I liked it for the most part. Forced sex scenes were off putting since I just wanted to solve murders.
>>342963904
The Tokyo Zodiac Murders
IIRC it ended up being true that the Epitaph riddle was completely and utterly unsolvable in English, was that the case?
>>342979802
Yes, there's a bunch of wordplay centered around kanji.
>Everybody feels bad for the victims of abuse in higurashi
>Everyone is angry at the victims of abuse in Umineko, to the point that the abusers are the favourite characters of many people
Bravo R07
Part 3 > Part 5 > Part 2 > Part 1 > Part 8 > Part 4 > Part 7 > Part 6
>>342963904
>>342975257
If you're into locked-room mysteries check out:
The Mystery of the Yellow Room
Rim of the Pit
The Hollow Man
All relatively short books and universally seen as the best locked-room mysteries ever written. And yes, the solutions are a lot more satisfying than Umineko's. Don't get me wrong, I love Umineko and it's what got me into the murder mystery genre in the first place, but there are so many better things out there.
>>342979398
>>342980625
Writing this all down in notepad so I don't forget, thank you
Alright, I want to see how the manga deals with Will's answers to the locked rooms. Anyone know which chapter that starts? Skimming through it now but having trouble actually finding it.
>>342981034
No problem, have fun reading them. Mystery of the Yellow Room is actually the very first locked room mystery book ever written and it still holds up. One of my favourite mysteries.
>>342978136
How did it change how you looked at people?
>re-reading volume 1 again
>get to the part where"Shannon" and several others have been bludgeoned to death and tossed into a storage shed
>red text later directly states that no fake corpses or people playing dead were utilized in this case
Uhh, I'm not sure how to reconcile this with later revelations.
>>342981759
Hideyoshi lied
Remember how he bullshitted so George didn't see Shannon ring?
>>342981759
Is your confusion with Shannon's "corpse?"There were only 5 bodies in the shed, real or fake. Shannon's was supposedly in the back, but Kanon and Hideyoshi were the only ones to enter. They lied about her being in there
>>342981501
It made me start giving people the benefit of the doubt, I guess. It helped me stop really looking at things like it was black and white, and it made me start to think differently about people in my life who I had hated before.
>>342982336
Huh, that seems needlessly complicated. Blackmail involved to get him to say that, I take it?
I've braindumped this shit so hard the last 5+ years it's almost shameful, this doesn't ring a bell at all.
>>342981759
there never was a corpse
>>342982909
Eva and Hideyoshiwere accomplices in Ep 1
That is why they let Kanon into their room before they were killed
I just read the manga explanations on the wiki and I feel raped. I love Umineko to bits but I shouldn't have treated it like a murder mystery because it really isn't.
I got a theory that Kanon and Shanon are actually 1 person that never cross dressed but are portrayed as 2 people only to the player just like Kinzo is shown to be alive to the player.
That's my theory why Kanon simply disappeared in the room, when Battler was trapped by logic error.
I went through the first episode again and noticed that no one but the people who know who the witch is will talk to both of them at the same time.
All the guests will only talk to 1 of them while ignore the other.
Can anyone who plays through the other episodes look for that as well?
>>342984476
This is actually a pretty common theory
>>342984476
I'm actually reading through EP1 at the moment and I'll keep an eye on it but how does that work for Jessica and George than? Is one of them homosexual?
newfag here im still confused are there 2 battlers? one is talking with beatrice and other one in the story?
>>342985057
one is battler on the gameboard, he only knows whatever is going on on the gameboard
the other battler is the player, who is talking with beatrice about the gameboard, they exist in what people most commonly call "the meta world"
>>342983912
Have you read the Confession of the Golden Witch manga? It revealed a lot as well. In hindsight, I think episodes 1-4 kind of trick you into focusing on the wrong things, the fantasy scenes end up being more important than people realize.
>>342984476
Have you finished Umineko?
>>342985057
No, it's the same Battler, they just exist in parallel.
>>342984476
If they never crossdressed wouldn't they always be called either Kanon or Shannon?
>>342985057
Yes. Get out of the thread because spoilers
>>342984856
well i don't know what others think but i think the point i'm trying to make is that the guests see Yasu, and not either Shannon or Kanon
They see 1 consistent person who looks like neither.
>>342985546
Yeah, I have seen people claim that, mainly in jp communities though
>>342985423
>If they never crossdressed wouldn't they always be called either Kanon or Shannon?
Kinzo is also being called kinzo but he's not really there
>>342984883
I've read theories that Jessica secretly knew what was going on between Shannon and Kanon and was a lesbian, but never brought it up.
>>342985546
It's interesting, but I think it's hard to fit in George and Jessica into that theory, unless they both think that Yasu is two different people.
>>342986272
>It's interesting, but I think it's hard to fit in George and Jessica into that theory, unless they both think that Yasu is two different people.
i can't really remember that much anymore what happened between george and jessica but didn't the have a duke out on who's love is the strongest or something like that. Seems to me like they were fighting for the same person
Were people really fooled into thinking Shannon and Kanon were 2 people or were they just going along with it to be nice to Yasu?
>>342986810
Yes, but Jessica was in love with Kanon and George was in love with Shannon.
If they appear as the same person all the time (except for the player, who sees Kanon and Shannon) what does that mean for George and Jessica? It would mean that either Jessica was a lesbian or George was a gay man.
>>342987629
Jessica introduced Kanon to her friends, I'm not sure but I think it was as a boyfriend.
George didn't introduce Shannon to anyone, was ready to fight his entire family to be with her, his mother is extremely against it. George a fag
>>342987626
They were really fooled, but keep in mind who the Ushiromiyas were. They were an extremely wealthy family that had a lot of servants. Also, keep in mind that the people who were on the island most were Krauss, Natsuhi and Jessica. It's not like Krauss and Natsuhi were 'fooled' into thinking that they were two different people, they just really didn't care enough in the grand scheme of things. Genji was the one that was responsible in delegating the servants jobs and such. George, even though he may have seen Shannon a lot, was not too familiar with Kanon. At most, he probably saw Kanon once a year, and Genji might have even arranged it so that Kanon was on leave during one of the family conferences. As to whether or not Jessica knew, there are a lot of theories about it, but it's pretty likely that she was suspicious.
The only time Shannon and Kanon were both on the job as servants was probably during the last family meeting.
>>342973962
AHA! TIME FOR PARENTING!
>>342988657
Someone please remind me how Yasu conviced a Doctor that was not swayed by gold to help him
>>342990161
big sloppy blowjob
>>342990161boipussi
>>342990161
He helped Yasu out of pity, plus he might not think that Yasu was being serious about the whole murder thing, might've thought it was just a game they were playing.
>mfw morning of the second day, episode one
So is the Kyrie thing just something that happens in one game? It's not the absolute truth?
