So what really killed Elder Scrolls?
We did
By thinking it's dead
When in reality it's more popular than ever.
nothing
skyrim is the best game of the series as of now
only turbonerds with nostalgia goggles argue this
oblivion and skyrim came out on the same console
/thread
I'm going to go with the uninteresting quests, unimproved gameplay, waypoints like you implied, going mainstream, gimped magic and overall simplification of the role playing elements.
Also, it's far from dead. It's just shit now.
>>342649734
>>342649867
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
spoken like a true 00's underage retard
Todd did it.
>>342649852
its zombiescrolls now. like zombie simpsons it is not technically dead but its a zombie.
I think they were probably considering taking out waypoints at some stage but chickened out and left them in
Notice how the first few "tutorial" quests have the characters giving detailed instructions on how to get to your destination but the later ones are just "I'll mark it on your map"
>>342649734
Its certainly not dead but will continue to be simplified till we get a spell that skips to credits just like fallout
>>342650143
Nah.
It's still Elder Scrolls.
It's just old enough and the games come out infrequently enough and the older fanbase is old enough to be stuck with their nostalgia goggles and wraped up in their NOT MUH to really notice the world around them.
>>342649734
I have 150 hours in skyrim bought and played it when it released then just stopped after I did everything
I don't have anything really good to say about the game but I did finish every quest and explore every notable place on the map
I hate how Destruction was so lame this game
>>342650064
i'm 22
THE ICE AGE
>>342650456
such shit taste grandpa
>>342650262
Yeah I noticed that too. The Golden Claw quest has the store owner's sister like give you a paragraph's worth of directions and then that never happens again. Bit weird.
>>342650417
Simpsons is still popular.
But its also a zombie. Its dead but not really.
This isn't a difficult concept.
>>342649734
It was never good. I don't think Bethesda has ever made a good game.
>>342650262
honestly who even cares that there's waypoints if the NPC you get the quests from is supposed to know exactly where to send you anyway?
it's only really a problem if they don't, or maybe if the dialogue doesn't imply that they did mark the location on your map.
>>342650728
what do you consider good games then?
Is there any hope for the future of the series. A dethroning of the Todd, a spark of inspired greatness, mere hindsight, ANYTHING? The new Zelda game seems to have displaced Nintendo from their shit trajectory. Can modern gaming in general still be saved?
>>342649734
>Killed elder scrolls
????? nothing?
>>342650064
>HAHAHAHA
your comment is irrelevant
>>342650882
Todd isn't the problem. The old guard still at Bethesda after all these years are the only ones capable of writing interesting quests.
Nothing each sequel is selling more than the previous one.
>>342649734
The combat and animations are very bad.
When the game revolves around adventure when there's very little of significance to discover, and action when the combat is below mediocre, you don't have a very good game.
I played the shit out of it, but I mainly use it as a dress up simulator
andwhen I need to fap.
>>342650824
For fps melee combat Dark messiah is better. For roleplaying Baldur's Gate and many other games are better.
Their games are sub par in nearly every regard and rely on mods to even meet the standards of the time generally speaking.
skyrim isnt that bad if you dont start the main quest. starting it triggers the random dragon attacks which are hella annoying.
>>342650627
The Simpsons has changed fundamentally with the times.
Elder Scrolls has not. It's still about exploring a massive world and exploiting game breaking bugs to complete a half-assed story and sidequests. That's always what Elder Scrolls has been about, and the number of armor pieces you can equip at a time doesn't really change that.
>>342650731
I mean i kind of get the complaint. Quick travel does change games entirely, and is the reason why openworlds are empty.
I dont mind the waypoint per se. I think the map would be cooler if it just didnt tell you where you are
>>342649734
Lack of actual role-playing in a role-playing game? Although that actually applies much more to Fallout (specifically, Fallout 4) than it does to The Elder Scrolls.
>>342651173
>tfw don't really want to start the main quest but feel obligated to immediately because if I ever wanted to start it later down the line I assume I would have to give Balgruuf the news of the dragon attack and he'll always act like it happened a few hours ago even if it's been months
>tfw once you've started the quest chain feel obligated to continue because ur teh dragenbern and you get a summons and shit and it makes no sense to ignore this
fuck i hate this
why cant they make sandbox games where you aren't immediately prompted to do the incredibly urgent main quest so you could ignore it without breaking muh immersion
>>342649983
George really is the best isn't he?
>>342651717
>>342649852
It's essentially a corpse now, and zombies are popular with casuals.
I'd say Oblivion was the turning point in the series where it started to appeal to the masses instead of the niche RPG nerd subculture like the previous titles did. Oblivion is still a great game, but by removing features from Morrowind and adding new features that made the game easier is what really killed it.
>>342651169
it's right there in the title of each game, MORROWIND, SKYRIM, DAGGERFALL
The games are about the settings and exploring the setting first and foremost, which is why oblivion was such a disappointment; completely uninteresting and generic setting. The games you've listed have more fun combat and more fleshed out characters but they're different types of rpgs focussing on different things.
They're bad games, but the franchise is far from dead. They're bad because they're ARPGs where the action is completely monotonous garbage that gets blander and more streamlined with every release and the RPG elements are non-existent. They are at best a form of fantasy GTA: a big boring game set in a big boring map and you can go around and do Anything You Can Imagine™ within the miniscule constraints the developers could be arsed to allow. As such, they live or die on atmosphere. Morrowind is successful as an experience not because its gameplay is so finely tuned or its dialogue is so well written or whatever, but because the people in charge of creating the assets for the game had a coherent vision of what the game would look and feel like and successfully brought it to fruition. Skyrim's in-game atmosphere is comparatively pretty boring, it's pastiche of fantasy cliches about barbarians and vikings that doesn't merit a second look. The real "vision" for Skyrim was an ARPG that could be figured out, played through, and loved by people who don't like action games or RPGs. The GTA audience basically.
However I don't want to buy into some narrative of the series going downhill over time or something, I don't think the Simpsons comparison is apropos. Arena is a pretty shitty game by almost any measure. Daggerfall is uniquely ambitious but to its detriment, it's an incoherent mess of redundant content. Oblivion manifests a lot of the same design trends as Skyrim in re accessibility, but is still somewhat successful at projecting an atmosphere, even if that atmosphere isn't a particularly striking one. The only other TES game that succeeds on an artistic level is Battlespire, which is absolutely abominable to actually play but deserves serious respect for its unity of design.
>>342652362
Not that anon, but if you'd prefer to play a game based around exploration and such, Gothic 2 does a much better job than both Oblivion and Skyrim, and it's up there with Morrowind imo.
>>342652558
Well written. You put my thoughts into words.
normies. I'm not even excited for 6, especially after Flopout 4
>>342652346
You mean Morrowind right?
Fuck me, the nostalgiagoggles for that game are overwhelming.
>>342649734
Nothing. Skyrim is one of the best TES games ever made, if not the best. As for quest markers you can turn them off.
There are many interesting side quests in Skyrim outside the boring Radiant quests.
>>342649734
Sad things is that the Elder Scrolls were not killed by Skyrim. If millions of people buy and play it, Bethesda would be retarded to drop the franchise, even though it's not a real Elder Scrolls. Same thing goes for Fallout 4, although that game wasn't praised as much as Skyrim, it too was too successful for the Fallout series to be "dead".
You know this is true, Skyrim was so successful, they can even bring a "reamastered" version aka game plus all kinds of mods. Why would Bethesda be so stupid and NOT milk this cow?
>>342654609
(You)
>>342654983
Not sure what you found (You) worthy in my post. Everything I said is true.
Morrowind was the end, they chose to focus on graphics instead of gameplay and the scope of the series shrank too much
We could went in a direction similar to Mount & Blade after Daggerfall, but instead we got Morrowind. I don't expect the younger kids to understand, since Morrowind was their first TES game and they weren't around for its release, which was heavily criticized by fans of the series at the time. Now we don't have TES fans, we have Morrowind fans.
>>342649734
>So what really killed Elder Scrolls?
Latest entry sold over 20 million units, basically the most successful RPG of all time. Are you literally retarded?
>>342651840
>that tongue
precious
>>342655156
Wrong. The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the end of the Elder Scroll series. Ever since Daggerfall, the game has become pure garbage. New fags will never understand because none of them have played the masterpiece, The Elder Scrolls: Arena.
>>342649983
>simplification is bad
by that logic, you best be driving a manual transmission car.
>>342655156
>tfw you will never be this contrarian
20 year olds pretending to be in their late 30's is adorable.
>all these deluded nostalgiafags and contrarians in this thread
Can you really only enjoy things when other people don't?
>>342654046
>Where are the lycanthropes??
In Bloodmoon.
>Where are the horses and carts?
Replaced with silt striders
>Where is the ability to buy houses and ships??
You can take any house in the game as your own.
>24 shops??
In the game if you played it.
>Any city to any city travel
Silt striders and mages guild.
>Non-icon based inventory system
You mean like the same sprites in Daggerfall that took up too much real estate?
>People of Morrowind too poor for banks
Gone because putting weight on money in video games is a stupid fucking idea.
TLDR A retard 14 years ago is still a retard now. Also no one was stupid enough to dump stats in any of the creature neutrality skills, maybe nymph for the beta virgin nerds to jack off to the sprites.
Boring quests
Shitty magic
"Balance" (no fun allowed) in a singleplayer game
One thing that pissed me off about Skyrim is that so many quests rely on the dungeons in the wilderness, so if you try to just explore on your own you run into dungeons that are permanently locked up until you are on the appropriate quest, or places that have entire sections of the dungeon blocked off inside them until you have the quest. You may clear a dungeon, get a quest later, and have to re-enter that "cleared" dungeon only to find another wing that was between a wall that has now magically despawned.
Hell for a decent amount of quests they literally just have rocks and other debris on top of the door that don't despawn until you are on the quest for that place.
>>342655682
By that logic, an automatic transmission car has fewer gears.
>>342650529
Congrats on being the most ADHD generation ever. Killing yourself will do no good because there are plenty of drones to take your place. But don't let that hold you back
>>342649734
>TES
>dead
pick one.
Skyrim made over a billion dollars and is still printing money.
Morrowind and Oblivion are fondly remembered by millions, and still actively modded and played by smaller cult followings.
There are millions of copies sold of TESO for fuck's sake.
Yes, there won't be another TES for awhile because Todd doesn't think he can do justice to what he wants it to be. He said some tech limitations that he hopes by the time they make 2 more games will be solved.
The only way TES is dead is if you mean Daggerfall and Arena.
>>342654046
People who actually played Arena and Daggerfall know that you're full of shit.
If the "big as a lake, shallow as a puddle" criticism applies for TES, daggerfall is as big as an ocean but it's even more shallow. Fast travel system ruins everything, everyone goes crazy trying to leave the tutorial dungeon only to figure out that unlike Arena, the overworld is absolutely soulless samey garbage and that the entire appeal of the game is the dungeons.
You weren't alive for Daggerfall, and if you were you were shitting your diaper. Fuck off trying to pretend as if you know a damn thing
>>342654046
>Morrowind falls short in roleplaying areas
What a shitty opinion. The game's added structure and personality is much more conducive to roleplaying than DF's endless slew of impersonal bullshit.
It's just the lack of good content involving and/or starring Khajiit.
Khajiit deserve spot in spotlight.
>>342649734
Skyrim, I'll forever hate the nords. Bunch of fucking ice niggers. That whole game sucked. Skyrim is like the Mists of Panderia of Elder Scrolls; a bleeding canser that killed the genre. Skyrim is a overglorified Alaska simulator.
For all the talk of racism in Skyrim pretty much fucking nothing ever happens from it.
The one town that was supposed to be mostly Dunmer is conveniently entirely destroyed and essentially worthless besides the Mages College. Then again there are a bunch of worthless towns with maybe a single vendor and some radiant bounty quests from the Jarl
And the only time that I can remember race meaning anything is that one quest where you infiltrate the embassy. If you decide to go with the disguise method then your race determines how well you can blend in. Altmer have it easiest of course, while Khajiit and Argonians will instantly be detected due to the tail.
Why I have a feeling that TESVI will take place in Valenwood and Elswyr both? I think it will be the first TES game to include 2 provinces in 1 game. Each of these provinces are smaller than Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind.
Valenwood with the lush forest region and Elves, Elsweyr with Khajiits and their warm desert.
>>342659664
The game is full of gutted or partially-gutted features like the one you just described. Shit like the lumber mills that didn't do anything until Hearthfire, the disguise system that only shows up in one and a half quests, the one cave of Forsworn who don't aggro if you free Madanach, the Bards' College that never lets you play an instrument, the inventory rotation that only works on two sets of objects, and the entire civil war just scream cut/rushed content.
Can you even play Skyrim without the arrow? I mean, the game is designed around that but at least are there any mods that modify dialog by giving directions or landmarks
>>342650064
All elder scrolls games are shit
>>342660174
You can if you ignore the radiant quests. Radiant quests like the Companion ones that give you a location to clear/kill/retreive without giving any directions to the place.
>>342660058
If they really wanted to, they could just release one and make it just as big or bigger than Skyrim's world. It's already been 5 years past Skyrim, so hardware not being limited and all that.
>>342660460
Even most of the main quests are like that, though. Like the one where you have to go to Ustengrav. They literally just throw that gibberish at you and expect you to find it.
Emil Pagliarulo becoming head writer
>>342649734
elder scrolls was never good to begin with
the only reason it's still alive is because there's nothing like it, same reason why i keep playing them, and why i'll probably end up playing TES VI as well
Morrowind.
>>342655682
Actually the majority of my country does, whats your point?
>>342649734
They were never really that great. It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet, where there are a LOT of options, but they're all overcooked roast beef, mushy beans, and instant potatoes. Viewed on a brochure, impressive. Taken individually, ultimately flavorless.
>>342651272
>It's still about exploring a massive world and exploiting game breaking bugs to complete a half-assed story and sidequests
Yes, we all know that, and we also know that the Simpsons is still essentially that. They're zombies because even though they're still the same bodies, they're decaying corpses, decaying in quality.
If you can't tell the differences, that Skyrim changed MANY things from previous TES games, I have bad news for you.
>>342649734
Even just talking about Elder Scrolls and Fallout make me sad because it's nothing but the truth that these games are finally playable without the "20% hit rate to the face" bullshit. There's nothing hardcore or brag worthy about putting up with it. The old games and new games are all awful in different ways, minus things like writing and lore.
They're still solid games, Skyrim just doesn't stack up because its problems are too deeply rooted to be easily fixed by one massively autistic modder (like OOO did for Oblivion)
Oblivion would be 100% solid and on par with Morrowind, were it not for the fact that level scaling killed any and all sense of progression the game had.
Well, that and the generic randgen overworld. Slapping quest markers and fast travel onto the game meant you didn't need to navigate the world, meaning there didn't need to be any distinctive landmarks so you wouldn't get lost, meaning wowee zowie holy generic new zealand countryside batman
/v/
>>342662248
Should I use OOO for my first playthrough or other mods?
>>342661952
"i swing 10 times and hit 8 times" is functionally the same as "i swing 10 times but do 8 damage instead of 10"
there's nothing terribly complicated about oblivion's or skyrim's combat to begin with and miss chance only makes the game slightly unpredictable, the only people worse than those who autistically defend it are those who whinge about it in every elder scrolls thread like it has any major impact on gameplay
>>342649734
less of everything, smaller everything, simpler everything
>>342662423
OOO's solid but you will get locked out of a lot of the content. The main quest infamously so, you have to be extremely high level just to get throughKvatch, the first point in the main quest where you actually see combat
Use OblivionXP if you like Fallout's levelling system.
There's not really any other ESSENTIAL mods.
>>342662803
>but you will get locked out of a lot of the content.
at the beginning*
seriously the first dungeon the game shows you has piss easy bandits and then decently hard undead and then a room full of death squadron ghosts where all the good shit is
>>342649734
It was never really good in the first place.
>>342662248
>They're still solid games, Skyrim just doesn't stack up because its problems are too deeply rooted to be easily fixed by one massively autistic modder (like OOO did for Oblivion)
I'm curious: What problems are you referring to?
>>342656126
>In Bloodmoon.
Which wasn't released until 2003, a year after that post was made.
>Gone because putting weight on money in video games is a stupid fucking idea.
So Skyrim removing "bad ideas" is casualization, but Morrowind removing "bad ideas" is improvement.
Today's "Skyrim baby" or "Oblivion baby" is yesterday's "Morrowind baby." Each Elder Scrolls fan is more casual than the last, and all of them are casual compared to an Ultima/Wizardry player, the two series that Elder Scrolls owes its entire existence to.
>>342649734
Bethesda
>>342658687
DF did have a neat character creator though, wouldn't mind getting that back even though they probably never bothered to balance it
>>342663142
>Today's "Skyrim baby" or "Oblivion baby" is yesterday's "Morrowind baby.
>Each Elder Scrolls fan is more casual than the last
>and all of them are casual compared to an Ultima/Wizardry player
I'm with you, mah nigga.
Every TES player should know this, Bethesda were shit back then and they're shit now. TES after Arena went downhill because Bethesda didn't know how to improve in anything and cutting many things from the previous entry, and putting meaningless things (Daggerfall with its generated landscapes, with no shit to do).
TES isn't that bad now, and it wasn't that bad back then, It's just that Bethesda can't learn from their mistakes and improving mechanics of previous entries in the next entry (they just remove them because lol).
>>342655682
Here's your (you)
>>342663142
This
TES is babby's first RPG series
>>342660117
Yes. Bethesda literally cut almost all the Civil War content in order to meet that 11/11/11 gimmick release date.
There is a mod that restores most of the Civil War, including the fights for other holds besides the mandatory Whiterun battle. And you can even lose battles and the entire war if you fuck up, instead of the fights being impossible to lose.
The whole mod is about 5 mb in size since its mostly restoring cut or dummied out content.
>>342654046
>>342656126
There were actually houses you could have as your own in Morrowind if you joined one of the great houses, you built and upgraded your own house. Hlaalu was a normal building/villa with a wall around the grounds, Redoran was a hollowed out crab, and Telvanni was a mushroom tower, you could even upgrade it to have Dwemer automaton guards on the grounds if I remember correctly.
>>342667627
It's also (last I checked) extremely buggy.
>>342667627
hmm I remember doing the civil war campaign without a mod, there was more than whiterun I know that for sure.
>>342662803
>OOO's solid
OOO is fucking terrible. It makes early game a gangrape of poverty, unavoidable deaths and 99% of game content that you cannot tackle because your stats and equipment don't allow it, then just makes the endgame more hollow by showing you how empty the world really is when you can just run through it. It also bundles a random bunch of crappy mods that are there only because the author fancies them. If you really must use it disable everything that isn't directly involved in fixing the leveled lists, then add MMM to bring some of the level scaling back.
>>342649734
Yeah... I never played the earlier ones but I'm pretty sure the fact that they never really got with the times. Most of their mechanics have always been sub par... particularly combat, and before anyone says
>It's never been about combat
Bullshit. Yes it has. Why does every quest and every dungeon require combat if the game is not first and foremost about combat?
Combat is too much apart of this series for how poorly its been implemented. I mean, everytime an elder scrolls game comes out it seems games from 3 - 4 years ago still had better combat. The only satisfaction anyone can get out of these games is the world, but lately that's being going to shit too.
>>342650458
nice
>>342650262
To be fair, there is no reason why people couldn't point things out for you on your map. The marker pointing exactly to your objective is ridiculous though.
>>342649734
They started to casualise the series. Oblivion already got most of its UI simplified for the console drones.
>>342660117
I'm hoping the fact that they're going to take their time with TESVI means we won't see as much rushed content and corner cutting.
I'm also hoping that Fallout 4 was only bad because they don't give a shit about that franchise in particular and were only doing it for easy money.
That's a lot to hope for.
>>342652558
This.
Why don't more people complain about Skyrim's combat? I only had fun when I was playing a stealth archer/dick ass thief. As soon as I switched to a sword n board warrior I quickly realized how terrible the game was. It's so fucking dull and boring. Do people really find mashing attack, watching enemies stagger a little, and then pausing to chug potions fun?
I actually am looking forward to playing Skyrim Remastered, but only as another douchebag thief. Any other playstyle is just fucking awful.Shut up I don't have a PC
>>342671706
>Why don't more people complain about Skyrim's combat?
Probably because Morrowind was even worse at the time.
>>342671879
Morrowind
>leftclick on a guy until he dies
>Occasional woosh sound when you miss
Skyrim
>leftclick on a guy until he dies
>Occasional cinematic killcam
Same shit as far as I'm concerned
>>342671706
Yeah, there is a reason everyone ends up a stealth archer.
Magic is even worse off because there are so few spells/no spellcrafting and Nords are retards who get angry at you for using it.
>>342672020
>Occasional woosh sound when you miss
This makes it heaps worse to be honest. Should have at least physically fucked up the swing in the animation.
>>342649734
Quest markers
Fast travel
Really shitty, bland melee combat. (though that's always been shitty) they even had to add cinematic kills to keep you interested because they knew how awful it was.
Boring copy paste quests
Lack of class/build/armor diversity
Having like 6 fucking voice actors
The main quest is always really fucking boring
Level scaling (mostly oblivion, but skyrim too)
Honestly, it could be good or even great if they just fixed some shit. But hey, at least we have mods.
>>342672418
I feel like if there were good animations to go along with it, people wouldn't be as bothered by this. Imagine you're fighting someone way stronger than you and instead of missing despite seeing your spear going through someone's head you're watching your every move get visually dodged/blocked/parried/etc. I imagine it would feel a lot better than the damage sponges we have now.
>>342649983
more isn't always better. It is like how it is in cooking. The more ingredients you have, the bigger the risk of ruining the flavor and taste.
>>342671706
The ability to pause and then endlessly chug potions or other consumables from your inventory that instantly take effect when you unpause needs to be fucking eradicated from all video games, it's so fucking stupid and it makes combat feel like an unsatisfying joke.
It's lazy, unprofessional and always feels like cheating.
>>342672872
do I even have to say it?
>>342672903
Absolutely agreed. I feel like I'm cheating when I have to do that shit. Huge immersion breaker.
>>342672872
Less isn't better either. Morrowind had the quality to back it up as well and felt like a much bigger world because of it, despite physically being smaller.
>>342672903
>The ability to pause and then endlessly chug potions or other consumables from your inventory that instantly take effect when you unpause needs to be fucking eradicated from all video games, it's so fucking stupid and it makes combat feel like an unsatisfying joke.
It's lazy, unprofessional and always feels like cheating.
I can see the headlines now.
>"(Province) the Dark Souls of Elder Scrolls"
>>342672872
FOOD ANALOGY
O
O
D
A
N
A
L
O
G
Y
>>342649734
theres literally nothing wrong with pic related. i don't get it
>>342649734
Focus on streamlining
and the lore turned into bullshit the longer it existed.
>>342673284
>being triggered by food analogies
seriously?
>>342672872
Yes, but when it succeeds, it's CLEAR it's better, except to retards who can't even distinguish between anything.
Though I've never really thought the Elder Scrolls series was ever anything special. An ambitious project that never turned out well. It would have to be at least a million times more complex while operating on thousands of times more powerful hardware in order to be good.
>>342664331
This. I still enjoy Morrowind, I still enjoy Oblivion, and I still enjoy Skyrim. I become oddly immersed when I have the compass in the HUD turned off and am moving around in the freezing mountains with my companions, mining out some iron near my home to build a library addition to it and walking inside to have my wife cook me and the kids some dinner. I guess I'm just a sucker for the little things in games.
>>342649734
I think the move from a more exotic Morrowind to a much more standard/generic Cyrodil and Skyrim hurt the game somewhat. It's a lot more interesting when the setting feels somewhat alien. Moving the setting away from focusing on humans would be a nice change.
>>342649734
Morrowind and how limiting it made the series.
>>342651272
How about the number of skills?
How about the number of weapons?
How about the number of spells?
How about the ability to become a blazing fast, levitating god that can jump over mountains at higher levels?
Sorry, it's just nostalgia goggles, I take all that back. It's the same game with the same amount of everything, just as good as ever.
Just like the Simpsons are just as good as ever, it's only nostalgia to think that 90's Simpsons is better than modern Simpsons because it's still the same concept and that's what matters, not what's in it.
>>342673358
Quest markers suck the soul out of games. You're supposed to fucking care about what's happening and listen to dialogue. Adding quest markers quickly turns an immersive journey into "kill 10 fags to earn some gold and advance to the next quest".
Having an emotional moment with a woman who wants you to hunt down her father's murderer only to have a little arrow pop up above the cave he's in and then another one over his head ruins the integrity of the game's world and story. It's insulting.
>>342673195
I see your point. If you have too little, it loses out on depth and feeling. Not a lot of game that I know of today that have a good mix of quality and content.
>>342674037
well im enlightened
>>342673749
Every game has its positive and negative points. Though, when one has an obvious amount of positives over the other, it is clear to see which is superior.
TES series is alright, but it kinda had too much to begin with, added a bit more to that with some more depth, took away and added some zing, found a good combination between content and experience, then finally kinda deflated on the whole experience with Skyrim.
I am a more of a Fallout kind of guy. New Vegas being my favorite so far.
>>342674738
>it kinda had too much to begin with
lol
Want to know how I can tell you've never played tabletop?
>>342655682
Spoken like a true American patriot
>>342674037
>optional features suck the soul out of games
Really, faggot? Turn quest markers off.
>>342675094
>Turn quest markers off
While it sounds like a good idea, there are times where you will never find out where the fuck you are supposed to go by doing this. You don't have the option to ask people for directions so good fucking luck with that.
>>342675094
The game is designed around the quest markers, though. If you turn them off you will be given absolutely no instructions on where to go more than half the time. They are not optional. And they ruin the game.
>>342674959
I never really actually played tabletop. I want to, but the one time I actually tried to get a DnD group started with a couple of friends was kinda bad one. The one guy that supposedly had the most experience and was our game master kinda gave a really shitty start and we never really continued on afterwards. He thought that enemies that had guns and trying to find out the whole conspiracy behind it was a good campaign. I didn't really find it appealing.
>>342655682
I'm not a car enthusiast. I don't give a shit about what I'm driving as long as it doesn't break down.
>So what really killed Elder Scrolls?
people thinking that missing 9 out of 10 hits in morrowind is a deep and fun feature saying that oblivion and skyrim are shit because you are able to connect every swing.
skyrim and oblivion has its issues, but atleast they're not shitty like morrowind
>>342649983
There is nothing I hated more about Morrowind than missing a guy over and over at point blank range just because his stats were a little better.
I won't debate whether it's good or bad game design, it's a matter of taste in RPGs. To me though it makes the combat very boring and more of a chore.
>>342675094
The game is not designed for that, characters tend to give the minimum amount of information, often don't even tell you where you are going, almost like the in world inhabitants dialgoue is written around the existance of quest markers.
At which point you have to use the map marker or quest journal to find out what you are supposed to do.
Now compare that to the very first quest in Morrowind to find Caius Cosaides, the characters explain things to as if you and they are part of an actual world.
Quest markers are objectively less engrossing and immersive, but was put into place so even the most casual non rpg player can figure things out, but at the expense of the more die hard rpg fans.
Don't know why people don't understand this after so many years of anons explaining.
>>342650143
Explain the term "Zombie"
>>342675738
No one has ever mocked oblivion nor skyrim for connecting hits, they had plenty of other problems.
Nice bait.
>>342671706
I apologize for the post I was about to make.
With mods, skyrim combat is almost as good as games with good combat.
On console, beth games are shit and I'm sorry.
>>342675738
So do people who complain about missing hits in Morrowind not know you're supposed to level up your weapons so they don't miss?
>omg! I have to do RPG things in an RPG!
>>342650912
>DayZ Shitalone still has ~13k people playing still
Why even live
>>342649734
Simplified quests and limiting exploration for fear of players missing shit.
I mean really, you can dick around in that Dwemer city and not find as much interesting shit as you would expect. I think the best items there are tied to storyline NPCs.
>>342677352
>you're supposed to level up your weapons so they don't miss?
Why would I do that when it's not even fun to fight shit at the start of the game?
>RPG things
You don't know what RPG things ARE retard. Go play an actual RPG and exploration and taling to NPCs is the biggest most satisfying chunk of it. The dice rolls are a fucking limitation of tabletop, which is completely unnecessary in videogames.
>>342675094
I tried this early on in the game, and sure enough it doesn't work. They don't even tell you where shit is half the time, just "Go to ____" so without the marker, you'll never find it. It made quests instantly feel like a huge chore.
>>342677352
RPGs aren't defined by stats and leveling up, dumbass.
>>342650434
>I did finish every quest
I bet you missed a few secret quests.
>>342649983
>your swings can never fail
There is absolutely, positively, nothing wrong with this. Sorrowind's combat was fucking goshdarn terrible.
>>342678259
Finally someone else understands.
RPG's just means there's a separation between character skill and player skill.
It's not dead, just a different genre. The Elder Scrolls series has never had a set genre.
Arena was pure dungeon crawler, Daggerfall and Morrowind were pen-and-paper style RPG's, Oblivion was an Action/RPG and Skyrim is an open-world aciton-adventure game.
The only constant is the freedom of choice regarding your character.
>>342649734
Greed.
>Consistently in the top 10 played games on steam over half a decade after release
>Not free or multiplayer
It's not dead. Never has been, and sure won't be any time soon.
>>342649734
>all these people that are taking the words literally, talking about sales, player count and ignoring the context of the image posted in the OP
>>342677686
Spending ten solid minutes trying to kill one fucking rat at the beginning of the game was atrocious, I'll give you that.
But I really don't see how missing your swings was a bad element of the game. I always just thought of it as like a character dodging but without the animation. It was easier to pretend things like that in video games over a decade ago, anyway.
It was just incentive to level up, explore, and strengthen your character. Scaled leveling in Oblivion and Skyrim just meant that I had the same approximate difficulty curve at level 1 as I did at level 30.
>>342655682
Heh, that made me realise something very pathetic.
There are people in this thread that can't drive.
>>342653846
Holy fuck you're cynical
>>342649983
Morrowind was overly tedious, it was my first one but it aged like milk. a lot of dialog and NPC were copy paste.
After Fallout 4's butchering of the Fallout series I doubt I'll play any new TES games. They've clearly opted to remove RPG aspects of the games in favor of more casual options.
Playing a game for RPG elements only to find the RPG elements being removed isn't exactly what I want.
>>342677352
Morrowind is an RPG game set in a 3D world with real-time combat.
If I see my character's weapon come into contact with the model of an enemy, it should be a hit, period.
Fatigue and weapon skill should determine how much DAMAGE you do, but it shouldn't determine whether or not you hit with that weapon. Missing with a weapon when you can clearly see it coming into contact with a model is jarring and shatters immersion.
TODD HOWARD
>>342649983
The multiple attack types were pretty pointless. They even included a "always use best attack" checkbox because they realized how retarded it would be for your guy to randomly stab at people with his blunt weapon for 1/4 damage.
Still the best tes though.
What if Bethesda has removed all these features, game after game, only to optimize them behind the scenes, perfecting them to be returned in Elder Scrolls: Four?
>>342674738
>new vegas
>3 was better
>>342683750
faggot
>>342683936
>Triggered
>>342649734
Popularity, like all things in gaming. When you have to appeal to a larger audience the products must be simplified. This means artistically, controls, and and difficulty.
Gaming was sold to shareholders and investors last generation. You can thank Sony and ESPECIALLY Microsoft for bringing big business into a hobby that wasn't ready for it. If not for them gaming would have never reached the normies.
>>342672872
Imagine being so fat you look at video games and see food.
>>342649983
>>342679092
Oblivion and Skyrim's combat is just as bad for different reasons. Morrowind's was at least very thought out and sensible in mechanics, though represented poorly through gameplay.
The only actual issue with that list of comparisons is including classes, which don't matter except as presets for the player. And a classification system for AI.
>>342682304
TODD HOWARD
>>342649867
skyrim is objectively the most mediocre from the last three entries
>>342649734
>killed
Hyperbolic
What made it less fun was the dungeons are linear and they reduced exploration with objective markers. Also low enemy variety. Combat is better though even if 2H was dogshit. Also writing felt more forced
>>342649734
i don't feel that objective markers detracted from the experience. there is always a mountain in your way while traveling, forcing you to go another direction, leading to more discoveries. that's how i discovered Markarth on my first playthrough, i was trying to find my way around a mountain and stumbled upon a city.
