>pick the same option five times
>it doesn't work
>pick it a sixth time
>it works
Is anyone going to unironically defend this shit?
You're clearly getting a reaction out of her, if you really care about not killing anyone you'd try much more than 5 times.
>people can't talk even if you pester them to
Shit thread, OP, anyone want to see my WIP Toriel plush
>>342545673
and this is why asgore and Flowey are shit fights. Actually every fight after metaton is shit
It's actually backhanded commentary about the more sublime occurences of rape culture which shape our daily lifes. You declines 5 times in a row - to no avail, the predator will just keep going until he gets his mind. At the 6th time, you're broken and give in.
IIRC even if you're doing the same thing you get different results that encourage you to continue. There are cues that tell you what you're doing is working, but isn't an instant success.
I guess a comparable mechanic would be dealing damage in other games (where you can't necessarily see they enemy's HP.) You pick "attack" five times and there are small changes that encourage you until the sixth "attack" choice defeats the opponent.
Plus the game tells you to try sparing even if the enemy's name isn't yellow immediately before this.
>>342545916
Decided to start working on the extras before doing the rest of the main plush
>>342546609
looks nice!
>>342545905
>the one fight in the game that presents an actual dilemma to the player is shit
Objectively shit taste
Enjoy your tripe "everybody is your friend and nobody loses" ending
>>342545539
>try one action multiple times
>get different reactions: that means it had an effect
>reaction repeats: that means you have to do something else
There, I explained the whole mechanic for you, Arin.
>>342546686
ty
>>342546737
It's leaned against a transformer my phone is plugged into
>>342546325
The game also tells you that you can lower a monster's health to make sparing them easier, which is a blatant lie and makes it far too easy to accidentally kill Toriel
The Toriel fight is supposed to throw you off so most non-spoiled players will end up seeing Flowey taunt them for reloading their save. It also acts as a tutorial for how the rest of the boss fights will work.
>>342546949
Random encounters will get yellow names if you get them to low health. No bosses will though.
>>342545539
Go and shoot some red barrels conveniently placed near some brown people.
>>342546949
Why would you attack goat mom, even if it made sparing her easy? I wouldn't knife my brother to talk him out of something. I'd just talk him out of something.
I think it really boils down to if you played it from the perspective of what YOU would do, versus what video game logic tells you should do.
>>342546325
>IIRC even if you're doing the same thing you get different results that encourage you to continue.
Only in some occasions. All of the enemies and bosses which take nothing but patience to defeat, where you can choose between either attacking them (and often times one swipe of the sword can instantly invalidate all your "good" decisions and push you to the "neutral" ending by default) or doing fuck all for 10 turns in a row until they decide to just give up, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to speed the process up or influence anything? That's bullshit, you're not giving any cue and honestly there is absolutely no way to know you have the option to go peaceful at all.
Except you get a different reaction out of her every time you spare her. Which prompts you to keep doing it.
>>342547360
The tagline of the game was "The friendly RPG where no one has to die". They were pretty clear you could beat the game on a pacifism run from the get-go.
>>342547515
Well I neither followed development nor did I participate in the community or anything. It doesn't say so in the game, at all, opposite if anything.
>>342547360
If I remember correctly, there's only four boss fights were you only have to wait it out. The rest all require that you solve some sort of puzzle to proceed. Also one of them can be skipped instead of waited through.
>>342546949
I thought that having the last thing the Froggit say being "Maybe you'll have to spare someone whose name isn't yellow." and Toriel calling you less than 2 steps later made it easy to put 2 and 2 together.
>>342547826
>tutorial character never tells you have to fight and instead suggests talking if you are attacked
>before you can get into any encounter, you're put in front of a dummy and told to practice talking to it
>numerous NPCs at the start of the game tell you how to spare
>one even tells you that sometimes you might have to use spare even when the name isn't yellow
You knew you could spare everything, you just couldn't figure out how to spare Toriel (which means you failed) or you didn't want to.
HOWAZAI SPOSTANO!!
>>342547646
Yeah but something like, say, the fight against the spider chick. I'm pretty sure she says the same lines and does the same attacks indepently of whether you attack her or just not do anything and there's a couple of enemies like that. You're not given any clue whatsoever that doing nothing does something, and I don't see why I'm supposed to just assume that. But if you kept doing nothing for 20 turns in a row the fight is magically over. Else it just continues. Attack once, you've fucked up. And that's bullshit.
>>342548520
>Yeah but something like, say, the fight against the spider chick.
If you haven't figured out you can spare everyone by the fourth boss then you're just an idiot.
>>342548520
Your clue was that it worked when you did it for Toriel and Papyrus.
>>342546758
ACTUALLY IN TRUE PACIFIST ASRIEL DOES LOSE. THAT BEING SAID THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ENJOYING 'EVERYONE IS YOUR FRIEND AND NOBODY LOSES.'
>>342548987
Nigga he was already fucking dead. Nothing would have changed that. Nobody lost anything.
If you want to talk about getting fucked by the game changing the rules, at least use the Asgore fight. I got my first game over trying to spare there.
>>342545539
>hit an enemy five times and they survive
>hit them a sixth time
>they die
WOOOOOOOOOOOW
>>342548728
No, by the time you've watched some youtube playthrough and read through some wiki you know how it works.
I refuse to believe anyone but .01 percent of players would figure out how to get anything but the neutral ending on their own, it just so happens that nobody actually walks into this game blind anymore cause it's so ridiculously popular. It's a fucking RPG and once you get into a "battle" your cursor rests on the FIGHT button. But when you neglect the fact that you get zero cues that you're getting anything done by not attacking and don't attack for ten turns, you "beat" enemies peacefully. Like the first couple tutorial enemies, they have these dialogue options to talk them out of a fight, but all the ones where you just have to do nothing, it's obscure as shit and if you think otherwise you can go fuck yourself with a broomstick
>>342548520
>Attack once, you've fucked up. And that's bullshit.
Unless you're doing neutral or genocide the only things you can kill in one hit are the tutorial dummy which doesn't count for anything or any boss you've already found out how to spare. Plus you can choose to miss if you accidentally attack.
>>342548828
Toriel has very clear clues which tell you that the spare option works, Papyrus you can just attack him till he's out of HP, then he gives up and lets you spare him. If anything Papyrus made me think I should just kill the bosses and then I'm given an option to spare. Cause the actual spare option did nothing, I guess waiting would have settled it but I just attacked and then I was given the option to not kill him afterwards.
>>342549490
>It's a fucking RPG and once you get into a "battle" your cursor rests on the FIGHT button. But when you neglect the fact that you get zero cues that you're getting anything done by not attacking and don't attack for ten turns, you "beat" enemies peacefully.
The theme of the fucking game is determination holy fuck I don't think it could spell it out anymore without DIRECTLY saying it to your face.
>>342549530
A flower that he already was before you got there.
What was the alternative? Letting him turn into a god and fuck everything back to status quo?
Of course fucking not.
As I have said and will continue to say because it's what actually happens. Nobody. Lost. Anything.
I mean fuck Asriel wanted everyone to leave because he knew he'd turn right back into murder plant again. The only way he'd lose is if you told him to go fuck himself and stayed around in the stinkpit for no reason.
>>342547228
I slapped the shit out of my brother because he wouldn't let me watch Godzilla with the lights off.
Besides, first time playing the game tricks you into thinking that attacking goat mom was the way out, if the game is being an asshole or if it's trying to teach you a lesson I don't know, all I know is that pulling this shit off at the start of the game even is bullshit
>>342550006
Yeah I once played this shitty korean MMORPG which had me grinding 24/7 to get anywhere, I think it's theme was determination too
my point is, it's shitty design. Do the same thing over and over and you're not given any cues that it does anything whatsoever, "determination" my ass
>>342547074
That's how I spared toriel though. Just kept attacking her until I got to the tears that avoid you.
>>342548520
I honestly didn't know how to beat Muffet on Pacifist, I spent quite a while doing nothing until she started talking about how I once bought something from spiders and then let me go.
Suppose I haven't? The fuck was I supposed to do?
>>342545539
Are you an idiot?
>>342550493
If you hadn't they still start talking and she lets you go because you didn't harm the spiders in the ruins.
>>342545895
That would be pretty good giantess material if she wasn't a literal fucking goat, people that cross gts and furry are the worst.
>>342546609
6/10, keep practicing
>>342550548
>you can spare every character
>have to fight Asgore to zero health before he gives up
>>342550548
I don't feel you have to justify yourself for not reading the through the steam storefront or not talking to every single NPC.
>>342546609
>tfw you don't know how to make qt plushies.
>>342551083
>If you ACT a certain way [OR FIGHT] until you almost defeat them...
>They might not want to battle you anymore.
>Use some MERCY, human.
>Ribbit.
Are you actually braindead?
Seeing this thread really makes me glad I didn't buy this game.
>>342551173
I never had to read the storefront, but I did talk to the NPCs. They have a lot of useful tips to tell you.
If you decide to bullheadedly charge through the ruins, shanking everything in your path, that's your perogative, but it still makes you a retard.
>>342551321
Me too.
That's why I pirated it.
>>342551321
After playing through the game I can't help but feel like I'm glad I pirated it, I didn't hate the game or anything, in fact I quite liked it, thing is I probaly wouldn't have liked it as much if I had spent money on it, also I am currently pretty short on money and I needed to play the game in order to get the writing in a comic I was making right.
>>342551429
Call me retarded some more, that won't make the blatant design flaws featured in Undertale go away anytime soon. It's a game that's not designed to be played blind, period.
>>342551547
>pirating indie games under ten bucks
>>342551229
Ain't that hard, really. If you can find on older lady in your community who sees she'd likely be chuffed if you asked for some pointers
>>342551821
How much more obvious would you like the game to be? Would you like it to hold your hand all the way? How about removing wrong choices or failure states? How about making it so that you can't skip these NPC dialogues that clearly tell you how to win this encounter?
Or you could not be retarded and actually PAY ATTENTION.
>>342550351
The tears avoid you if your health is low enough you autist
>>342551639
>>342551321
>>342551547
I'm in a similar boat. I don't remember the exact circumstances but I got it in a giveaway thread and hoo boy am I glad I didn't pay money for it. It was short as fuck and too easy.
>>342551821
You're the reason why games are becoming more and more oversimplified.
>>342551029
Yeah it's just ok so far. Simplistic and I made the delta runs bit while sleep so it's wonky. I think this one I made of Lammy is my best work so far
>>342551268
>some of the characters will randomly get oneshotted to death if you lower their health enough
Yeah, nah. The game teaches you that fighting at all is a bad idea.
It has been almost 9 months.
It still hurts.
>>342551821
You seem to be in the minority of people who feel the game doesn't adequately explain the mechanics.
Consider that you might not be paying enough attention, and don't blame the game.
>>342551821
>It's a game that's not designed to be played blind, period.
I wish I could have a solid argument for just how wrong you are, but I don't
>>342551547
Same. I'm not supporting this autistic fanbase.
Also, first boss fight a shit.
>>342545539
*stay determined
Spare Toriel by tickling her into submission
>>342552754
>I'm not supporting this autistic fanbase.
Do you think money you spend on a game goes to the fanbase?
Are you retarded?
Why do autists like you base all of your opinions on fanbases? You realize almost every product in existence has a shitty fanbase, right? Stop being a cherrypicking faggot and judge a game on the FUCKING GAME.
>>342549490
Actually I went into the game blind because a friend recommended it to me, said I should not read anything related to the game before playing it. I ended up really enjoying the game because it took me by surprise, and I'm glad my friend wasn't one of those fags who spoils the experience for others. And yes, I did figure it out.
On an unrelated note, I wish more games had this much fanart.
Undertale is shit.
Lisa is best.
How did it feel when Dingaling pulled a fucking Amadeus?
>>342551821
It's a game designed for multiple playthroughs, yes. You're not supposed to go full pacifist on your first run, but the game still goes out of its way to tell you that you can. You refusing to read NPC dialogue and missing info is your own fault.
What's SUPPOSED to happen is you probably kill a few people and get a neutral ending, of which there are several. Then you wonder if you can do things differently for a different ending, and NPC dialogue tells you that you can go full pacifist, and you might be doing it just to spite Flowey and his "kill or be killed" mentality. After THAT there's the True Pacifist route. Finally, you do Genocide, which mirrors Flowey's descent into madness, getting bored of doing the same things for the same happy endings and wondering what would change if you just killed everyone.
The purpose is to be a meta commentary on choice based RPGs and how psychopathic the average protagonist would be for killing their way through everything. I personally feel the gameplay isn't really enough to justify multiple playthroughs, which most certainly shits all over the narrative since you're most likely not going to replay it, but that's the intent behind it.
I feel like Undertale would be a lot better if there was more incentive for multiple playthroughs than the story, and had more interesting gameplay. As it is, it's something you'd play once for the gameplay and only go back to if you cared about the story. Which I thought was okay.
>>342553504
I like both desu
>>342552468
Pah, as if Undertale was "complex" in any sense. There is excessive hand holding, and there's withdrawing information from the player in an attempt to make the discovery of hidden stuff more exciting I guess. And not giving you any cue whatsoever that an action you perform has a consequence until you keep doing it ten times in a row, if that's the kind of thing you feel games today need more of, I disagree.
>>342552676
I considered the possibility, granted I'm not the most patient guy and probably wasn't trying my hardest possible to find the peaceful solution at all times, and yet, at the end of the day, I was trying to go peaceful and failed and after looking up what I had to do, it felt like that was not within my power to discover and ultimately I gave it a fair shot, the game didn't manage to hook me up with an enjoyable experience, and that's hardly ever the fault of the player
>>342553848
>>342553848
>Alphys is a streamfag
worst girl
>>342547167
Well, It sure is a fine day today Reddit
>>342554261
no, streamfags are as bad as phoneposters
>>342550548
Bullshit, you do have to fight eventually like in the Asgore and Flowey fights. It's like if in a platforming game the only way to progress in the final level was to jump into a bottomless pit.
>>342554375
...why? What does it matter where you watch your cartoons?
>>342548407
Which is bullshit consider you do have to fight 2 enemies to progress. There's also no cue of goatmom suddenly dying in one hit after half her health is gone. Not to mention if you know that, fighting Asgore is even more discouraging despite being what you have to do.
>>342554559
>...
not even going to bite
>>342545539
Just kill her then. Nobody's telling you how to play the game bro
>>342545539
The text changes slightly each time.
>>342550209
that gives you options for another play through you can see how the game plays out with her alive
>>342554620
* is confused *
>>342554261
>>342553848
i dont even like chubs why does this make my pepe hard
>>342555323
What if I'm gay and I want to fuck Alphys?
>>342554596
Not him, but i'd like to mention that saving and loading is a huge theme of the game and if you'd actually kill Toriel by mistake, like i did, and you reload your save, Flowey will call you out on that you cheated.
>>342545539
>wanting to spare this disgusting creature
Kill yourself
What I get from this thread is the key to making a hit indie game is to fill it with furries.
>>342550209
>I slapped the shit out of my brother because he wouldn't let me watch Godzilla with the lights off.Which one?
>>342551845
>giving your bucks to some losers who think their indie-shit is worth money
it's a straight copy from an Earthbound fight.
>>342556996
I only have one brother
>>342557196
which Godzilla movie
>>342545539
>Do something once
>Something happens
>Do that thing again
>Something different happens
>Repeat 3 more times
>Something different happens each time
>Do it a 6th time
>fight ends
>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSE TO KNOW I HAD TO DO A THING 6 TIMES
I know /v/ is full of casuals but this is truly pathetic.
>>342545539
t. The same sort of person who they target in focus-testing and the reason why almost all titles are the equivalent of on-rails corridor shooters where the goal is surrounded by 85 yellow circles and your hand is held throughout the entire first half of the game
>>342545539
The only truly shit boss in that game was Asriel and that's because being unfucking killable killed any tension or excitement it might otherwise have.
If you struggled to figure out any of the bosses you should probably just do everyone a favor and just hang yourself.
Anyone noticed that Papyrus and Skeletor from He-man laugh really similarly?
>>342547228
>game tells you you can spare by getting monsters health low, and it works.
>monsters hint to special sparing cases (Toriel) only implies that you should be able to spare even though the name isn't yellow.
>Toriel is worried you'll get killed by Asgore
>She asks you to prove your strength to her, ensuring whether you can survive or not.
>Her battle shows she is actually a surprisingly powerful character herself, who can clearly take a hit.
>There's nothing saying you shouldn't fight, until AFTER you "accidentally" (read, scripted) kill Toriel at least once.
Why wouldn't you attack her?
>>342551821
>The game isn't designed to be played blind because I ignored all the times the game told be pacifism was an option, and then for no fucking reason wanted to try and go full pacifist on a boss despite apparently going in blind
You could teach valve playtesters a thing or two about being fucking awful.
>>342549490
>I refuse to believe anyone but .01 percent of players would figure out how to get anything but the neutral ending on their own
... all it takes is backtracking to the hotel after metaton and getting undyne's call.
>>342551639
Same here. But at the same time, since I liked it so much (damn you toby for making such a good ost), I feel a little bad that I didn't buy it.
I'm just glad there's no anti-piracy measures. I can only imagine what horrors that could be with the game already being meta as fuck and messing with save files.
>game plays as normal until you meet asgore
>he's not there
>instead your final battle is with the Annoying Dog
>he just multiplies and kills your heart in 5 seconds
>sans calls you and says you're a "big nerd"
>savefile deletes itself
>>342549490
>I refuse to believe anyone but .01 percent of players would figure out how to get anything but the neutral ending on their own
You literally only have to click MERCY the entire fucking game. It's not hard at all.
Then the game TELLS YOU WHERE TO GO.
>>342556939
/Thread
>>342559693
I'd rather thicc goat kid
>>342560096
>me before playing the game
>e621 toriel
>me after playing it
>e621flowey
>>342546609
>>342546819
you selling these?
>>342560375
He is a few hundred years old and I am...the reincarnation of his friend.
He doesn't really know who the fuck I am but i'm still getting that boi puss-puss.
>>342560534
does that mean goat mom and dad are over 600 years old?
>when the breakcore kicks in during the photoshop battle
>>342560741
Boss Monsters only age when they have a child, so they probably are pretty old.
>>342552586
>>342561116
>bunch of garbage artists next to great ones
Awesome
>>342550548
If you try and weaken her first like that frog tells you to, you'll end up getting some stupid high crit and ending her by mistake. It's really not a surprise that it tricks a lot of people the first time.
>>342561608
it is 100% designed to trick you into killing her, the dev has confirmed this himself. Hack game
>>342560525
I might be open to commissions, yeah. Send me an email at HuffFelt@gmail. Com and we can talk
>>342553619
>I feel like Undertale would be a lot better if there was more incentive for multiple playthroughs than the story
Agreed. There are all these "endings", but the path to reach those endings are identical. It's the same reason people shit on Mass Effect 3.
>>342559453
No anti-piracy, but the game has an ending specifically for dirty hackers.
>>342545539
>>342545673
>>342546203
>>342546325
>>342546949
>>342547515
GOOD GAME DESIGN
>>342563816
It wasn't supposed to be like this
>>342546818
This. Holy shit. Even if the change is from two dots to three, any change means you keep going until you hit a wall.
I remember many donuts here claiming you're meant to kill Toriel the first time, so you can reload afterward and have Flowey mock you. No, you're just retarded
>>342556996
The first one, gotta see those opening credits in the dark
>>342557196
Don't listen to this cocksucker, I'm the real deal
Is this game any good? I have it in my library and i'm about 40 minutes in and it's boring.
>>342545539
ITT
>>342565953
I liked it a lot but it's definitely not for everyone.
>>342555435
Go home, Undyne
>>342545539
/v/ let's get together and make our own pixelshit indie game. What's stopping us? Is there anyone here who can at least handle gamemaker studio?
I can draw pixels better than Toby, for sure.
>>342560002
>>342563816
>>342565412
Asriel is not for sex you fucking degenerates.
Keep your filthy cheetoh encrusted hands off him.
>>342547228
Considering that you're playing a game, it was just asking you to think by game logic (wanting to leave the house at all is game logic, in real life I'd totally stay around), and you had done the same thing twice with no change, I'd call it a massive failure in communication that the game holds over your head forever despite the fact that the whole theme of undertale is based on unconditional forgiveness
aka the story is bad
>>342566191
I can't help it, I'm a sicko
>>342566189
It would probably be full of memes and unfunny humor without any substance to back it upunlike Undertale.
I remember this RPG maker game /v/ was making that was pretty much how it was coming out.
>>342560987
>when the beat kicks in during papyrus' battle
>>342561063
I assumed they stopped aging after Asriel died. I think it was implied to work like that.
>>342566450
fug, I mean that it was pretty much coming out that way.
>>342564457
But it really does have good game design. Some amazing design really.
Not to say it's challenging, just that it has some incredibly well designed moments.
Especially the final bosses of each route (and Asgore)
>Audio rollercoastering perfectly
>Changing up the stakes depending on the route you've taken
>making things seem intimidating/tense despite the game literally cradling you through most of it.
Really experienced players may find it boring due to the hand holding as you get into it, but for the uninitiated, shit like the Omega Flowey fight is insanely consistent as a tense fight of rising and falling action.
>>342566450
No listen, it's simple... We simply WON'T make a meme filled mess. That's the plan.
We pick a theme. Then we sexualize the hell out of it, then we make good RPG mechanics, I'll draw the titties, and we're good to go.
>>342566676
wait, if this is a glorified h-game, you should go light with the RPG mechanics
>>342566043
For me it was much the opposite.
During the first few weeks of the games release I died to Toriel 3 or 4 times before I got frustrated and started to question whether she was worth saving in the first place if she'd kill me so mercilessly. So I ended up killing her right back only to find out apparently I was a cruel monster for deciding to defend myself after dying on multiple occasions.
I replayed the game very recently to get the "True" ending and realized her battle was MUCH easier. Her projectiles automatically avoid you after a certain point which didn't happen when I had played before. Say what you will about me being shit at games, but it's not inconceivable that someone might get fed up with dying to some patronizing goat that acts all sweet and innocent until she doesn't get her way. Fucking hell, don't try to tell me that's impossible.
>>342566787
No way. H-games don't sell, because the mechanics always suck.
Besides, It's not an H-game. It's a normal game, with sexualization just for the hell of it. But not explicit sex. Just ecchi stuff laced throughout.
>>342561063
>>342566479
Hmm, I'm pretty familiar with Undertale's lore but I don't remember seeing anything on this particular topic. Where are either of those implied, out of curiosity?
>>342566950
>During the first few weeks of the games release I died to Toriel 3 or 4 times
It's not possible to die to Toriel unless you try, because she stops aiming at you when your health is low.
>>342566950
Eh, I played the game during the demo phase.
Killed Toriel, got tricked, reset the game, etc.
>>342567020
The turtle shopkeeper tells you about it, I think.
>>342567001
so make a very sexy RPG with deep mechanics and shallow writing?
>>342567056
Bullshit. I wouldn't forget the reason for my frustration so easily. I know that the battle is extremely forgiving now but I distinctly remember dying multiple times to her on my first run of the game. You can pretend that I'm wrong but I know for a fact what happened and how infuriating it was.
>>342566676
Anon, if we put the titties then the sjws will complain
I thought the idea was to outdo Undertale
>>342567350
sex sells anon
>>342567280
Well you're wrong. Leeeeeeeeeeeeet's go!
>>342567280
Were you playing the demo?
>>342567423
You're losing the kiddy crowd, which is where a bunch of sales for Undertale and FNAF come from. C'mon, think. The kids might not mind the boobs but their parents do.
>>342567243
No one can write for shit. Let's face it. We can probably find a guy to cobble together a game in gamemaker or whatever. But there's no way we're finding someone with legit writing talent.
But if we sprinkle in "lore", tidbits here and there, then we can emulate dark souls, and get by on telling the player next to nothing, while still giving the impression of depth.
>>342567350
No, the idea is to cash in on some easy indie bucks.
>>342567589
Why not ask /lit/? Someone might do a commission for free
>>342545539
>legit 5 seconds earlier you're told to try sparing someone repeatedly despite them not being white
not my fault you're a fucking psychopath who resorts to violence as soon as something doesn't work the first time
>>342567540
Boobs are less offensive when it's pixel art. And they won't be exposed boobs. Because too much of that might get us rated as an adult game. An adult rating is death.
>>342567423
>>342567589
Do PG innuendo, having a character make subtle hints and give well accentuated bedroom eyes, do a cute design, people will sexualize it automatically
>>342567485
No I was playing the game after the first few days of it's release. That's why I ended up getting the "You're a bad person and you should feel bad" ending for defending myself from a crazed hellfire flinging wannabee mom.
>>342567443
>>342567674
You figure /lit/ actually knows how to write? I wouldn't put faith in that.
>>342567804
you can't actually die to her fire
you're actually just a bad person
>>342567891
You can but you basically need to intentionally run into multiple bullets at a very specific hp threshold.
>>342545539
I went in knowing nothing, didn't see adverts or LPs of it, didn't even know it existed but my friend mentioned it once every so often so I picked it up.
After sparring her three times I assumed I had to get her down to low health and then spare her. I killed her and didn't even think about restarting, was pretty confused later in the game and was really annoyed that I had to start all over, but I did and beat the game and then let them live happily ever after.
It was bretty gud
>>342567790
I'm not in this game to NOT draw titties, anon. I need to draw some sexy shit, or I'm out.
>>342567891
I think you can... if you run into her flames on purpose
>>342567020
>try to find a video showing the section
>nothing but let's plays
>finally find a no commentary run
>they skip over the relevant part
Fuck it. The turtle guy Gerson tells you about it.
>all this straight shit
I kinda wish I was straight because my dick would be so hard right now from this thread but it's just limp baka
>>342567589
>>342567842
I'd take a crack at it, depending on what kind of plot we want for the game
If we're trying to outdo Undertale we have to understand the context of the setting, characters and themes and why they connect with the autistic audience in the first place, either way it all boils down to making the player feel like he's dearly wanted by the character in that game's world that he can play around with
>>342567990
Fine, we can have breasts. everyone is gonna have them?
>>342566472
"That's my attack, you're blue now!"
>bass and reverb
I love a good "it's on now" moment that isn't forced.
>>342566203
>and you had done the same thing twice with no change
That's not true, the dialogue does change. It's subtle, but people used to NPC dialogue from older games would pick up on it immediately.
I still think Toriel's eventual death should have been better conveyed through the fight. At half health, she could get a wound (like a facial scar) that causes her to flinch. While she returns to her vacant gaze, the scar is permanent. Not only would this be a much better indicator of how much you're fucking up (compared to trying to remember what some dumb frog said), players who realize their mistake at this point get gut-punched when the scar is noticed by other characters in the pacifist ending. Imagine if Flowey said in his plea to prevent another reset, "the scar doesn't matter. She forgives you".
Adding a visual element like the scar would help draw people into the world of Undertale and give a shit about the characters, which is the game's main goal. As it stands, killing Toriel by a random crit feels like bullshit you couldn't have seen coming for some players. People who argue they should have seen it coming because of dialogue doesn't change how these people felt about it, and there's enough of them that I think Toby dropped the ball here. The whole ruins feels like a cut-and-paste job from the tutorial instead of upgrading it to meet the standards of the rest of the game.
>>342567056
>>342567443
>>342567891
>>342567983
>>342568020
It's very possible to die to Toriel. Unlike the rest of the game, your character's Defense isn't updated every time you take damage. Instead, it's only updated at the end of every combat round.
This guy is doing it on purpose, but it's clear to see how easy it is to get wrecked on accident by playing normally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjIn-t-TKGg
>>342547228
I dunno man. I went into the game blind, not knowing what to expect. I mean, when you start playing, a seemingly innocent flower tries to fucking kill you and then, out of nowhere a goat person straight up kidnaps you and doesn't let you leave her house.
I dunno about you, but I didn't hesitate to murder the bitch when I had the chance. Shit's sketchy yo.then I realized shit wasn't as sketchy as I thought and I felt sad. Mainly because I had killed skelebro's girlfriend
>>342568130
Nah, my man, get the idea of trying to outdo undertale out of your head. Sure, we can learn from it. Study it, and try to utilize some of it's autism attractive powers to our advantage. But outdo it? That'll never happen. We just have to focus on what will make our game good.
Now, if you want the key to autism, it's all about creating a, uh... Jeez, I forgot what it's called. Is "horoscope" the word for it? I'll just go with that for now. You want to create a horoscope of characters, for which the players can project their identity onto. It's all about *identity* with the autists. And that just happens to overlap with the SJW crowd. That's why Undertale blew up so much. Because it was a giant tale about being accepting of one's identity, and having these characters that fit this neat group of archetypes.
>Fine, we can have breasts. everyone is gonna have them?
No not everyone. But many. An not only titties. But hips, buts, sexy figures, and all that. This could be a game about sexual identity from a perverse perspective. There could be a horoscope of sexual archetypes. But you know... actually sexy characters and scenarios. Not the SJW body acceptance pandering kind.
>>342550294
>my point is, it's shitty design. Do the same thing over and over and you're not given any cues that it does anything whatsoever, "determination" my ass
I think it's very deliberate, and crucial to the game. It's a mindgame preying on the "I push a button, I see an effect" mentality that a lot of gamers naturally are conditioned to have, and you're later rewarded for sticking to it (being determined) instead of abandoning your position and opting to fight. Without that confusion/doubt, the fights would be extra simple.
>>342568343
This. If the game included a subtle hint that it might be a good idea to take a different train or thought it would've been better, however it still would have to be subtle enough so if someone that goes ''huh, I think it's how the fight is supposed to go on anyway, whatever'' can still go ''something's changed now, maybe I should try something different?''
Point is, the game actively tricks the player, it's pretty possible that this was put in there to alert someone that recklessly skimmed over the tutorials, but you can still kill her with a random critical even if you did read all the tutorials, or if you were intending to kill her in the first place
>>342550927
Speak for yourself. If it looks hot, I'm set.
>>342546609
>>342552504
anon, your dumb handcrafted dolls warm my heart.
>>342552586
And soon it'll be 10.
This is the end, anon. Accept that.
>>342568089
how can you not get hard at toriel's THICC, MOTHERLY body?
>>342567443
I thought it was "Leeeeeeet's get it on!"
>>342569065
You're right about the Horoscope thing, not to mention ''love and tolerance'' is a common thing among autistic fandoms, however we still need a story that serves as a way to connect the whole autism magnet thing with the whole sexual horoscope thing, starting with the main character, who are we gonna play as? What themes people might connect with would happen that involves the sexual horoscope?
>>342569414
Because she doesn't have a dick attached to it and she isn't threatening me with anal
Does anyone remember trying to give your watch to the watch collecting character in custom robo? took a massive amount of tries and slightly affected the endgame
>>342545539
the point is you dont think to do it the first playthrough, but when you go the second time you know you dont have to kill her so you try anything
>>342558235
Not gonna lie, didn't quite catch that I was supposed to run from undyne the first couple times I fought her. I felt pretty fucking stupid once I figured it out.
>>342569534
so you like futa?
...there's a lot of that, i was on e621 a few minutes ago
>>342552504
Are you a grill?
>>342569758
You could just go to /trash/ or e621 and get all the goat, spider, fish, and lizard porn you want.
>>342545539
I ended up killing her the first time cause I didn't try spare more than once and one of the frogs did say that some enemies could be beaten within a inch of their life before you could spare them. Than you do 300 damage in one swing near the end.
>>342569821
I only like futa when it has dialogue boxes or faces that imply it'll rape me, or if it's raping a male
Toriel has practically none of that
>>342547470
You get a different reaction every time you try to talk to Asgore too but that accomplishes nothing
>>342569907
why's it gotta be rape?
>>342569907
do you not have any sense of imagination anon? Plus I almost literally haven't seen any toriel that's not her fucking frisk up the ass.
>>342569495
Alright, well the story can't be too direct to the sexual horoscope. We have the couch it somewhat into whatever the story is.
I'm always a fan of futuristic settings, because of the flexibility future-fantasy provides. You can make up anything, and excuse it as "technology".
The main character, if we're forced to choose, would be a girl. Perhaps an android of some sort. Or perhaps an organic body-modded human. Essentially, any humanoid being that would allow the player to pretend they're whatever they want to be on the inside, despite their exterior.
Maybe just stick with making the game as a girl until nearing the end of production, to see if it's worth including a male model?
Or, we could go with an androgynous figure. Sort of a trappy looking fe/male.
I might need a minute to think of what themes to tie this together with. But if you have an idea, I'm all ears.
>>342569331
Glad you like them matey. Here's my most recent one of Oolongearlgrey's Succubus and Skeleton
>>342569831
Nop
>>342569147
I killed her in the demo the first time. The demo frog doesn't have a line about special circumstances, but ACT still asks if there's a way to resolve this without fighting.
The real trick (at least in the demo) was that you had to use mercy twice in a row to make it happen. If you were just fumbling around trying every option like a normal gamer would, you'd never hit mercy twice in a row and realize the dialogue changes when you do. This is thematic, staying determined to a course of action whether it be brave or foolish, and it guarantees most players kill Toriel and learn about the power to SAVE. The game actively tricking the player here is a good game design. The problem is the critical hit to prevent low-HP sparing comes out of left field and feels like bullshit you couldn't have avoided. This is why I think a scar is a good idea, because it removes the feeling of being tricked when you visually see you're beating her up.
Also, Flowey should have appeared more often, like a branching path in Hotlands. We needed more of that asshole criticizing everything you do. "Wow, good job with Mettaton's puzzle. It was designed for children, and you still failed."
>>342570358
I love the futuristic setting idea, as well as the gender-vague robot.
My idea for the sexual horoscope would be that maybe the half-finished robot would want to find a place in society and in the process try to get married, and in the process it would meet all these girls, however when the game reaches its mid-point you have to choose to pick one and only one girl, meaning that the other girls you didn't pick turn against you, unite with the main villian and become bosses themselves, meanwhile something happens that changes the entire game's overworld, so we get a lighthearted first-half and we get a more sinister second half.
It's important to note also that the humor shouldn't change going from one half to the other, the later half might be more sinister but I still think there can be applied zany humor, even if it's black or ironic
>>342570552
it makes sense given the canon why she would die like that, same for the rest of the bosses. Plus without the suddenness Many people (like myself) would never have been trapped by it. Plus then after the inevitable reset that the game KNOWS you reset is just something that you would never have experienced. Having Flowey laugh at you for murdering her (and then resetting) might be the most genius part of the game and people missing out on it is honestly a cheat in itself.
>>342570552
Everyone thinks that what they would do, is what "most players" would do. Personally, I learned about hitting the run button multiple times through dealing with the evil carrots. Even though their initial encounter confused me, because I wasn't sure what the trigger was to allow me to get away.
And then I learned about hitting the spar button multiple times through those little troll dudes. When you spare them, they simply start dancing like morons. I thought that ws weird, but since they're just dancing, I might as well try sparing again to see what happens. And wouldn't you know it, it worked. That's how I got the idea that you might need to try actions more than once to get the desired result.
I thought that's how most people learned. But the more I read, the more I realize how many people missed this crucial lesson. And then they say the game didn't teach them. Or the game tricked them. From my perspective, people simply lacked the compassion, and took the easy route.
>>342565582
It kind of is supposed to go like that, sort of. The game's set up in a way that that people that:
a) Aren't good at videogames
b) Don't play videogames very much except for the latest ultrahype game
c) Go in expecting it to be VERY standard RPG conventions
will run into that situation.
People who are savvy, meticulous, observant or outright stubborn can stumble across figuring Goatmom's trick out, but the game intentionally makes it subtle since a lot of people won't think to count the extra dots as a changing reaction indicative of progress.
The sequence of [Kill Goatmom -> Flowey taunts you into reloading a save -> Encounter Goatmom again -> saving Goatmom -> Flowey taunts you with knowledge of your save-loading shenanigans] is going to be a key, defining moment for a lot of people who go in blind, something that tells them that this game isn't a typical one by any means; characters in games don't typically remember what you've done if you load a save, so the fact that not only do characters react to Frisk differently the second time around, but that Flowey remembers entirely even though he shouldn't, tells you that this game is keeping track, and to be careful with your choices.
>>342571329
That's literally wrong though, you don't have to press any button multiple times against those enemies.
>>342570552
I don't think the whole mercy thing with the game has anything to do with Determination, it merely means that you're actively choosing not to kill anyone, the game might indicate that sparing might be a good idea, but that doesn't come through the player in a meaningful way, sparing essentially becomes a shallow mechanic in which the player chooses not to kill, the game rewards you if you kill but something that might indicate the player that killing is wrong and that they should have mercy could be told without text and in the game's context, even if it's subliminal
aka Toriel's fight might not need changing, but there needs to be something in the game that makes the player think to himself ''huh, that felt wrong'' and that lead up to the player deciding if he wants to kill Toriel or not
>>342545539
So is that an off-center smile, or is it a nose?
>>342570962
I kind of wish I had fucked up and killed Toriel when I first played because without the "You're not the only one that knows about saving, smartass" line the bit in the Asriel fight about reaching for your save file seemed fucking weird.
>>342571494
>>342570552
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention
Flowey should have appeared more often in the game, I'd be wonderful to have more of him shitting on the player rather than have him suddenly appear in the EndGame and spout cliché dialog, some of which is lifted directly from EarthBound
>>342571453
You have to Flex multiple times against the seahorse, and turn up the heat twice for the Pyrope. There are more examples than that, too.
>>342571729
those come later in the game after toriel though.
>>342545905
How is flowey bad?
Damn I wish I didn't have the "Flowey knows you reloaded after killing her" bit spoiled.
Then again here I am like eight months later, what difference does it make.
>>342551821
Except, it is. It's a game that's designed to be played blind, with the knowledge that you'd figure out how to do it as you go along and either go back to the beginning or give it a second playthrough after Neutral.
You've still beaten the game, it's just that you didn't get the "best" ending.
>>342571440
>People who are savvy, meticulous, observant or outright stubborn can stumble across figuring Goatmom's trick out, but the game intentionally makes it subtle since a lot of people won't think to count the extra dots as a changing reaction indicative of progress.
Stop trying to make yourself feel better for being too stupid to figure it out. Just admit you goofed.
>>342546952
Underrated post
>>342571726
Try suddenly Turing around at times throughout the game.He's following you the whole time.
>>342571726
Sans does mention him once. I dunno but I kinda liked it, it was obvious he was gonna show up but it was dragged out for so long it's sort of surprising, or would be for people who get into the story of a game and forgot him.
>>342571989
Two places I remember seeing this fucker isafter the long hallway sequence in the ruins, and afterMettaton brings back the tile maze puzzle introduced by Papyrus.
>>342553850
>and that's hardly ever the fault of the player
It's the fault of the player more often than not. Different people have different tastes and different experiences, it can't always be the game's fault when someone's tastes don't match up with what the game offers, but you can bet your ass that everyone and their dog will always blame the game when it doesn't appeal to their sensibilities, instead of simply accepting that it's them.
It's not like it's some kind of personal fault or flaw, it's a lack of compatibility, and that shit just happens, but nobody will even consider it because far too many people will feel like doing so is admitting defeat.
>>342571989
I had to look up and down the overworld trying to get Undyne's chapter, I've walked all over through snowland and waterfall and even when I finally got her chapter going I don't remember seeing flowey once
>>342571898
M8 I figured it out but I make a hobby out of studying game design, and I can see where the game's coming from.
Consider that the people on /v/ will be, by-and-large more savvy about games and their conventions than the average actual person, particularly normies that game casually. Even if a majority of people around here figured it out easily, that doesn't mean the everyone will have, never mind outside of /v/. Seriously go watch some random let's plays of Undertale. Unless they were let in on the scoop ahead of time, most of them (but not all) will end up killing the goatmom.
>>342545539
>tells you not to give up over and over again
>makes a point how it may be hard but to never give up
>muh Determination
If anything the bosses that you can't sway eventually make less since. Also exhausting dialog until something changes is pretty common.
>>342572141
You're one of these guys who say games are art and can't be bad, right
>>342571329
>And then I learned about hitting the spare button multiple times through those little troll dudes.
Are you talking about the dancing misgosp that's just in with the wrong crowd? You had to first figure out how to spare his ally, then you could spare him immediately afterwards. I didn't see sparing multiple times as the solution but sparing once for the first enemy and once for the second. Toriel is the first enemy you have to spare multiple times.
>>342571494
>the game rewards you if you kill but something that might indicate the player that killing is wrong and that they should have mercy could be told without text and in the game's context, even if it's subliminal
This is why Snowdin is so great.Kill Snowdrake? The other enemies are Chilldrakes. Kill the mini-bosses? Their seats are empty at Grillby's, and there's unique dialogue depending on which combinations you've killed.
>>342571989
Oh, you want something fun?If you turn around in one of the echo flower hallways in Waterfall, you'll see Flowey next to one. Listen to the echo flower and he taunts you about Toriel.
>>342571869
Don't worry, it's not a spoiler. Toby expects people to have played the demo multiple times before buying the game. You should get out before we start talking about real spoilers like what Papyrus -really- thinks about you.
>>342570956
I can deal with the mood change. However, I feel like the the main's character's motives are too direct here. Wanting to "find a place" is too on the nose. And get married? Who is stopping robots from getting married in the future? Why would a robot what to get married?
Let's say the robot doesn't know what it wants. I wakes up, and there was transfer malfunction that corrupted it's identity, and it's memories. It's devoid of personality. However, the robot quickly gets swept into a conflict among factions. Initially, the robot is found by the factionless rebels. In the group are various people representative of each faction, working together. The first half of the story, is getting to know each of these characters.
The midpoint occurs when the rebels have a major dispute and split. Forcing the robot to choose a side. Whichever faction you choose, the others will turn against you. Ultimately, the rebel you choose to follow will be the seducer, who you might eventually marry.(If you really want marriage to be in the game)
>>342545539
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riiKTQ0lQns
WILL YOU TAKE US TO MOUNT SPLASHMORE
>>342572568
>real spoilers like what Papyrus -really- thinks about you.
spoil me famine, I beat the game and I dunno what you're talking about
>>342549490
But you did the exact same in the fight with papyrus
The only way to not kill him is to click spare 10+ times how could you forget about that during spiderbitch
>>342572141
>player not having fun with a game
>"more often than not, that's the players' fault"
You sound like a retard.
I want Toriel, Asgore and Asriel tosit with me in my living room as we all crack lame puns and eat pie
>>342572568
>Are you talking about the dancing misgosp
Yes. What do you mean you spare him immediately after sparing his ally? I'm fairly certain you had to spare him twice, regardless of your action toward any other enemy on the field.
>>342553189
I think the creator is autistic too dwYou retards are easy to trigger
>>342572696
You can just attack him and the final blow will not kill him but make him "spare you", then you get a choice whether to finish him or not, chosing not to kill him ultimately makes him befriend you and stuff all the same.
>>342572534
No. Games can be bad. There's lots of games that are bad.
I believe that, like with anything creative or mechanically involved in life, Games can be a "work" of art, and occasionally actual art, but most games are just games.
Sadly most of the games that may qualify as actual art have a tendency to actually be shitty games, so I like to focus on games being a "work" of art, with the art actually being the art of designing games, since those games produced from someone who has become skilled in that art have a tendency to be more memorable on average.
On a similar topic, I typically decry games that are geared around being "experiences". Especially ultralinear games with lots of voice acting that are focused more on the story than the game (i.e. movie games), but on the flip side I have a guilty pleasure when it comes to "experiences" in games, and that's pretty much anything Drakengard/Nier or in otherwords by Yoko Taro.
>>342572692
Yes you do. And it's okay, we've all been through this before.
>>342553189
what? if this game sells well then MORE games like it will be made, and more games means more fans
>>342545539
do the right thing andM U R D E R H E R
only good monster is a dead one
>>342572696
Actually, fighting Papyrus will have him skip to his final move once his HP is low enough. Afterward, you can kill him, but it's not like Torishit where it's "lol half HP=1HKO".
>>342548987
>THAT BEING SAID THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ENJOYING 'EVERYONE IS YOUR FRIEND AND NOBODY LOSES.'
How has kindergarten been for you?
You weren't supposed to spare anyone on the first playthrough, the game was built so you'd enjoy replaying it in pacifist
>>342572606
It's funny you mention I've just had second thoughts about my idea, I thought of making the first half zany action adventure where you fight the two factions, the robot doesn't know who's side to fight on and he is just randomly defending himself from either sides, not having much of a grasp on what's going on
The whole split at the middle is due to the main bad guy causing great damage, driving the characters to unite, but they don't exactly know how, which brings in our ''friendship'' theme, which is to have the robot be the mediator between these two factions so they can get the big bad. It's from this skeleton that we create the characters, settings situations and obviously, the humor, which in the first half it comes from the madness that is this petty fight between rebels, and in the second where the robot is trying to unite the characters
>ITT: angry edgy 12 year olds who hate good games that aren't Cowadoody
>>342572949
Not sure what you're getting at. Undertale is neither a bomb in the cinematic experience department, nor does it feature particularly artistic craftsmanship as far as mechanics and stuff go.
>>342573025
I'M FROM BUENOS AIRES AND I SAY KILL EM ALL.
>>342573120
Tell that to the autists in the YouTube comments
>>342573230
>Undertale
>good
>>342573230
M80 I don't even like CoD, and I'm not a fan of Undertale's first boss fight. 2012 called. Get some better insults.
>>342573230
No, this is /v/
They hate anything that wasn't made in the 1990s or before.
>>342573565
>/v/ is one person
>Undertale accepted on /v/
has tumblr invaded 4chan agin?
>>342572725
You seem to be running on the assumption that every person can be equally mentally compatible with every type of game and experience.
This is not the case. Tastes are a thing that exist, and they can strongly affect whether a person enjoys a game or not, regardless of the actual quality of the game. This is why fun is a very subjective term.
Let's make an example of Zelda.
A lot of fans of the series, particularly those that started with earlier entries in the series such as Zelda 1 or Link to the Past, are going to look for fun in the exploration aspect of the Zelda series. I, however, am more geared towards puzzles, so I get more enjoyment out of the temples. The end result being that despite being fans of the same franchise, what we consider to be a good or bad game might be different. My appreciation of puzzles and level design always wins out over my appreciation of exploration, and it might be said that my appreciation of exploration is lesser compared to other Zelda fans so I might not... quite catch the nuances of it as well, especially when it's outright missing.
So in a way, I can understand why a lot of Zelda fans would dislike Skyward Sword based purely on the ultra-linear nature of it with a lack of exploration in the extreme, outright calling it a bad or shitty game, but given my appreciation of puzzles, I found a lot of Skyward Sword to be pretty enjoyable and typically insist that it's a good game, just with lots of flaws.
We are mentally geared towards enjoyment of different mechanics and experiences. Not a lot of people are taught that just because they don't like something, doesn't mean it's bad. So, yeah, I find that more often than not, a lot of the games that folks say are bad typically aren't actually bad, but just consist of something that doesn't appeal to them. The games that are truly bad are the ones that almost everyone universally agrees are bad, like some of the schlock you can find in the Indie section of XBLA.
>>342573639
>he fell for the Undertale is shit meme
>>342573243
I think I may have lost you.
I was just making clear my stance on games and art.
>>342545539
why is she holding a tiny dick?
>>342573840
it's POV porn of her jerking off Asriel, he is just being left out
>>342572852
The migosp is only attacking you because his buddies are attacking. Once his allies are gone, he's now a free spirit and just wants to dance. His lore is discovered through Check text and dialogue.
As for where your idea came from: at some point in the game fought a migosp plus a moldsmal (the jello guys). You spare on the first turn because you're trying to figure out the game. Moldsmals can be spared as soon as you see them, so sparing mades migosp all alone. The enemy's turn comes about and since he's only migosp, he dances. Since you thought it was weird that he wasn't attacking with bullets, you spared again and it worked. This is how I think you came to the conclusion you had to spare him twice in a row.
>>342573178
Alright, that's a start. So what key archetypes are we working with here?
We need a vanilla character.
The obligatory sadomasochist.
The ultra voyeur.(Might be the most irreprehensible character, as he will do some fucked up shit, in order to satiate his fetish, but somehow still redeemable in the end... or not)
The exhibitionist.(Ironically the most clothed, because she gets off to the shame of being revealed.)
The heavy body modder.(Either a /d/ style amalgam, or monstergirl.)
Also, we could entertain the idea of virtual battles. Which would actually give some context to the battle transitions, and mother-eque battle screen layout.
>>342574020
Huh... Well I'll be damned. And here I thought the game was actually teaching me something.
>>342573243
Undertale can tell its story through its mechanics.
Not many games out there do that.
