Whats /v/s opinions on new crpgs, such as underrail, shadowrun honk kong and dragonfall, etc. Ive been playing pic related and although /v/ doesnt like it ive been really having fun with it. What about you guys
>>342137647
I was enjoying wasteland 2 until the locked containers started having a 10% chance to open even though my skill at unlocking them was maxed. The combat rng was minimal once you got some points in your weapon skill, but the noncombat stuff felt like they wanted you to savescum to have any chance of success. Not that the containers ever had anything good in them, but I still wouldn't know unless I savescummed.
>>342138290
ya that was probably my least favorite part, but once i got past it i enjoyed it a lot
I'm overjoyed at their abundance.
Digital distribution really allowed for this, and I'm basically super glad about it!
Loved Grimrock series, Underrail... Will play WL2, and DivOS sometime.
Next thing on my list is Bastard Bonds tho.
I liked both poe and torment beta and disliked pretty much everything else, especially dos and aod
RPGs are fun!
>>342140326
game? is it grimmrock?
>>342140867
Grimrock 2, yea
>>342141149
looks neat, ill have to add it to the list, really dig dungeon crawlers
>>342141290
It's fun to explore dungeons in this series. Cool puzzles, survival elements, satisfying progression and mapping
I found Wastland 2, PoE, and Shadowrun to be pretty disappointing. They all felt incredibly simple, with the writing thinking tons of info dump dialog is good dialog.
Dragonfall was amazing
>>342141859
I mean, I agree with the guy above me about the first shadowrun. It was too simple and tedious to play, and I wasn't interested in the characters and setting.
Dragonfall on the other hand was really good. Only annoying parts were the hacking parts , characters were cool, story was pretty good and was paced right. Hub was meh, but heh. Haven't played HK.
GREAT TIER
Pillars of Eternity > Underrail > Shadowrun: Dragonfall
GOOD TIER:
Shadowrun: Hong Kong > Divinity: Original Sin > Lords of Xulima > Serpent in the Staglands > Wasteland 2
GARBAGE TIER:
Shadowrun Returns > Age of Decadence
>>342142204
HK is worse than Dragonfall, better than Returns.
I tried playing Pillars of Eternity, but I can't figure out the combat system.
Only ones I really enjoyed were Shadowrun and Underrail, one for the story and overall narrative and the other just for pure gameplay reasons, which is strange considering I've never played a cRPG because of its gameplay in my life but the borderline limitless exploration made Underrail extremely fun to me.
"Generic" cRPGs just don't do it for me anymore, I need something else, a bit of unique flavor to them, like Shadowrun. PoE and Divinity were such a drag in that regard.
If you're wondering I didn't like Divinity's gameplay all that much. The environmental manipulation was a bit iffy and spotty at times and the game had an abysmal difficulty curve.
They seem pretty mediocre as a whole, but CRPG fans are pretty desperate for anything the superficially resembles a late 90s CRPG.
>>342143921
>They seem
Am I right in thinking you haven't played them yourself?
Don't know about others but Wastlend 2 was a huge disappointment for me.
>>342137647
Wasteland 2 is disappointment grande and shitty game overall.
Shadowrun stood faithful to its predecessors for good and worse. It is interesting ride on a one way street that you have no investment to ride again.
Undarrail was great but waaaay too hard for me. I started playing more focused on roleplay then on tactical elements and ended up with no-magic-genious-glass-cannon which resulted in endgame being impossible for me.
>>342142461
What was so bad about shadowrun returns ?
>>342137647
WL2 was shit on release, but the current DC version is decent. Perks and traits helped a lot, as did the rebalancing.
>>342143238
Learn to pause.
There, you win.
>>342137647
Wasteland 2 was pretty garbage and I haven't touched the Shadowrun series (I've never been a fan of the setting), but both Underrail and Age of Decadence were pretty solid. Both could stand some rebalancing, especially in regards to passive skills. Underrail was really too build-heavy for my tastes.
>>342144482
Casualized beyond belief, was basically a Mobile game in disguise. Some of its issues might have been patched since I played it, but I don't care.
Underrail is a masterpiece, right up there with the greatest cRPGs like Fallout or Arcanum, not even kidding.
Shadowrun Hong Kong and especially Dragonfall made me enjoy good writing again while also presenting solid gameplay and game design.
Wasteland 2 on the other hand presents you with a repetitive combat system, meaningless choices and downright ugly graphics wherever you go. It's an okay game with some neat ideas but ultimately can't reach a level of quality that I would recommend it.
>>342144838
Did not notice... all three games seemed to have exact same mechanics to me. Care to elaborate more ?
>>342144021
They aren't?
>>342137647
I'm really pissed about Pillars of Eternity. The game could have been so fucking good but they went with such a dog shit combat system. God fucking damnit.
Divinity : Original Sin has an amazing combat system but the quirky writing just doesn't do it for me. It's still my favorite modern CRPG though.
Wasteland 2 is just not my thing. I don't care for the futuristic non-fantasy setting.
>>342141673
bump for dragonfall. 30+ hours well spent
base game was really average though and i hate the inventory system, seriously wtf.
divinity os is also excellent, even more so with the recent re-release. game needs time however, i finished it in about 100h
>>342144936
What do people like about underrail?
Honest question.
The combat isn't that great.
The merchant system is restrictive.
The character building isn't that great.
The world is ugly and samey.
I mean, its not horrible, but I don't get the dick riding it gets.
>>342145091
Personally I think pillars had a fantastic combat system that was ruined by all the classes being balanced. The backer npcs are what really killed the game for me though.
>>342145079
That's up for you to decide.
Looks can be deceiving, go play them and then extract a worthwhile opinion out of it.
>>342145263
It has one of the best combat systems in RPG history. The way the levels are designed and how you can utilize psi or stealth is amazing.
Divinity: Original Sin was fantastic and I can't wait for 2. Wasteland 2 had some flaws but overall I really enjoyed my time with it. PoE was fun initially but I later it kinda lost me. Couldn't really get into either the Shadowrun games or AoD.
>>342145263
Basically, all of those things you listed are opinions.
>>342145310
I still don't get what bothers people about the backer npcs. They were completely ignorable.
>>342145263
>Dick riding
Anon you exaggerate. It's a niche title so of course you'll see some really intense people speak about it. Haven't met many people that actually loved the game that would give it a score over an 8, but that's perfectly fine. It scratches an itch that few do.
>>342145368
How do you figure?
>>342144936
Underrail isn't comparable to either of those games, in regards to quality or design philosophy. I appreciate it for what it is, but it's tremendously flawed in a variety of ways, from a handful of absolutely worthless skills, perks, and investments, horrible balance in a handful of crucial encounters, mediocre writing, and nearly non-existent character-based RP.
It does level design and combat extraordinarily well, but that's about all it has going for it.
>>342145310
My main gripe with the combat system is that I spent 99% of every fight with the game paused. Unpausing it for a split second to let the enemies make a move and then pausing it again so I could react to it. It was tedious and immersion breaking. I would have liked it much more if it was just turn based.
>>342145613
Level design and combat are good enough to outweight its other problems, just like some of the greatest RPGs have some flaws that get overseen in favor of better game mechanics.
Also I wouldn't call Underrail "tremendously flawed" because that simply isn't true. The writing is solid (or even good by modern standards) and most skills and perks serve a function.
>>342145263
For me it is closest it gets to fallout/fallout2 combat wise and freedom wise.
Everything you mentioned is true but since there is absolutely nothing scratching that itch fallout 2 left it had to do.
On ugly notice; 90% of the game was done by one man band... some bloke from Yugoslavia that loved fallout1/2
>>342145586
Just look up in how many ways you can finish Depot A. Depending on your build and approach you get a complete different experience every time.
>>342140326
Dat smug rat !
>>342145480
That was part of the issue. It was extremely irking for me to not be able to talk to any npc. I know in Baldur's Gate the regular npcs had nothing meaningful to say anyway, but they gave the world an immersive element. Not being able to talk to the npcs made the world feel frustrating, like I lacked an element of control that I should have.
>>342145263
Damn good exploration, and I enjoyed the combat system a lot. It's a bit samey at first, but already at the first or second level ups you get enough items & skills to really mix things up.
And this is coming from someone who couldn't believe single-player TB games can be fun, outside Roguelikes.
It kinda felt like a combat system for a badass-action-movie star.
>>342145920
The other problems actively hinder the roleplaying aspect of the game. You never get nearly as much ownership of your character as you do in Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, etc. and that alone should disqualify UR from standing up there with some of the greatest cRPGs. It's more comparable with RPG hybrids like DX or SS than your conventional cRPG.
Even its best features are hindered by shit like the lack of a map and the huge emphasis on proper character builds.
>>342146831
Character building wasn't THAT hard. There were plenty of viable options
>>342146831
Not the same guy but the lack of map honestly was probably one of the best choices the dev made.
You know when you want a game to feel like the old times but you still keep a few modern conveniences so ingrained over the past years that it doesn't feel as pure as it should be? Underrail just boldly kicks them out of the way. Getting off my lazy ass to whip out a pen and a notebook and keeping it close as I played probably made the game twice as fun for me.
It was a gamble that would satisfy plenty to a few and bother everyone else, but that's the game in general I think.
>>342147606
RPGs have had maps for over two decades now. It's not a modern convenience in the slightest and even a rudimentary map would've helped make sense of UR's labyrinthine levels.
>>342137647
Wasteland 2 is complete trash. Pillars of Eternity was fun.
>>342147606
Agreed...
But it isnt like he left out the map on coincidence. NPCs give you thorough description of layout so you must pay attention on what they are saying.
Result is much more immersive gameplay and the world seems a lot bigger. It is fun to get lost... something that is deemed redundant in new games with all those shiny arrows pointing who to kill, what to take, what to do etc...
>>342147606
I'll never understand this "cutting out modern conveniences is good" meme. Maps exist for a reason. There is nothing wrong with games having them ingame. None. Its not "better" to have to do it on paper. It never has been. Maybe you, personally, think so, because you are a masochist that should just be doing PnP from the start, but overall? Hell no.
>>342139218
>Underrail
When I heard about it, I was sure it would be some indie trash. And it's all what Fallout 3 should have been.
>>342142461
>Pillars of Mediocrity
>Great
Literally one of the biggest let downs in recent years. The game was just... bland.
>>342147606
nigga fucking doom had maps
>>342145263
>The merchant system is restrictive.
And that's bad because...?
>The character building isn't that great
The amount of valid builds and options to beat the game is just amazing, what the hell?
>The world is ugly and samey.
Wow, a game set in metro is set in a metro, how come!
What I liked about it?
>Itching all the different scratches at once
>Fells like playing Fallout, the real one
>Enormous world for exploration
>Combat system that allows you to use countless tactics, depending on your PC and situation
>Atypical leveling
And of course the moment the plotcease to be just weird post-apo cyberpunk and goes full throttle into cosmic horror.
>>342146474
>It kinda felt like a combat system for a badass-action-movie star.
This so very much
>>342137647
DivOS is one of my favorite games ever, never played Wasteland 2 and many other. Dragonfall was really good and PoE was meh. I was very disappointed in POE that every dialogue option was lawful good, probably worst dialogue options in any crpg ever made and very bland. Durance was awesome though.
>>342145263
>What do people like about underrail?
It's the overall sum of its elements, mostly great exploration, world building, atmosphere and build variety.
>The combat isn't that great
It's pretty good, the difficulty is just right, it has a lot of build variety and you can do some funny shit with it.
>The merchant system is restrictive
Al Fabet pls go.
It makes sense and forces you to give a shit about other factors like weight-to-value ratio, how easy is it to sell a certain item etc.
>The character building isn't that great
It gets the job done and has enough options to allow a fuck ton of specific builds.
>The world is ugly and samey
It feels samey because the metro and cave systems are fucking huge, but the game is full of different tilesets and backgrounds.
Also dev is a cool guy.
>>342146831
>You never get nearly as much ownership of your character
The fuck you even talk about?
>>342149782
based
>>342147606
For me, the lack of map was literally the only issue I had about the game.
It's too big to just keep track of everything manually and locations are all connected, so travelling the world tends to be pain in the ass if you, say, make a break for a while and forget where take which turn.
Sure, it allowed to create GREAT climate, but hindered gameplay considerably due to the "either you draw your own or you will get lost" approach toward navigation and map
>>342149863
Opportunities to define your character as an actual character and not just a tool for progression are few and far between. Personalized, unoptimized builds often suffer tremendously with little recourse.
>>342146831
>Even its best features are hindered by shit like the lack of a map
Both devs and most players didn't want a map because it would kill the feeling of exploration. One of the best moments in the game is getting lost in the caves for the first time and trying to figure out how to get back.
>huge emphasis on proper character builds
Any build that isn't gimped on purpose is able to finish the game. Melee and crossbow builds might struggle in the final fight but it's doable.
>>342149782
Based as fuck.
Also, the distribution system and funding was handled perfectly. No crowd-funding bullshit, no demands from people, no rewards for giving money... Simply selling the beta as an open game for trial. Don't like it - don't buy it. Got advice? Post it and it might be listened, but it's not equal with implementing it right off the bat
One of the most based game devs that are.
>>342150160
>unoptimized builds often suffer tremendously with little recourse.
Confirmed you never played the game past first two hours.
Because that's one of the few elements that make this game so good - unoptimalised builds are still a viable option. Not as effective, but still perfectly fine. As compared with usual stance of "min-max or die", that's a massive step forward.
So stop talking from your ass
>>342145310
What killed Pillars for me was the pacing and how empty the world managed to seem.
I mean, the main district in the main city had three buildings you could enter. Streets were largely empty. When they weren't empty, they were filled with backer NPCs 75% of the time.
It wasn't like Baldur's Gate where the main city had like 6 different taverns and there were lots of random houses you could just go into to steal shit.
>>342149782
>It's pretty good, the difficulty is just right, it has a lot of build variety and you can do some funny shit with it.
Loved the game but at the end (i think its the end i never finished the game) in lower caves i would always get steamrolled by demons and invincible slugs... And demons would respawn after some time so i gave up eventually.
>>342150181
>Be me
>Get into the caves without night vision googles
>Get so fucking lost there is no point even trying
>Reload
>Get googles
>Batteries run dry in the middle of exploration
>Nothing to recharge
And it was still fun to reload after this and try for the 3rd time.
>>342150160
>Opportunities to define your character as an actual character and not just a tool for progression are few and far between.
I didn't get that feeling, there was plenty of character-defining choices like:
Black Eels/Scrappers
Coretech/JKK/Prateorian Security
Protectorate/Free Drones
Either accepting or refusing working for Abram andOculus
Institute of Tchort infiltration
Standing with Faceless
Not to mention minor choices like sparing or killing NPCs etc.
>>342150667
> i would always get steamrolled by demons
>And demons would respawn after some time so i gave up eventually
You are not supposed to fight the non stop.
They only spawn once you get 20 stacks ofTchortdebuff.
You can reduce the stacks by going down those hatches and waiting a few seconds. Also you can get a perk that slows down the rate at which the debuff stacks.
>>342150830
Got better one
>Be me
>Go to Silent Isle
>Be completely unprepared
>Get attacked by your own shadow
>Never learn the hell is going on
>By random chance figure it out with flares used to scare the rats away
I mean... wow. Just wow. The moment it all clicked together was great. Especially since knowing how not to get attacked by the shadow still didn't make it safe. Or explained anything for real.
>>342150667
>Loved the game but at the end (i think its the end i never finished the game) in lower caves i would always get steamrolled by demons and invincible slugs... And demons would respawn after some time so i gave up eventually.
That's (very nearly) the end of the game, but yeah, that entire section was bullshit. Made Depot A look like a cake walk.
It's been nerfed a bit though now (you can sneak through the vents with almost no combat, I think)
>>342150667
I still remember when I've dediced to get back to Depot A for rest of the junk I was unable to carry away, only to realise most of enemies respawned. That hurt.
A lot
>>342151284
You should listen to the boatman, he tells you that his shadow appeared as soon as his flashlight run out.
>>342141459
I know this was posted a while ago, but does Legend of Grimrock run well on toasters? I was looking on picking it up but my PC is completely awful.
>>342151356
>Depot A
Don't even remind me. It was too fucking hard, given level and gear progression. Would be really, really glad if you could have some NPC for that particular moment.
>>342137647
None of them have been that great.
>>342151596
It's a casual filter.
It was nerfed though, mutants (big ones) have a lot less HP now.
>>342151516
I did. Hence why it all clicked together after the flare. Previously I just treated his story as "spoky shit NPCs has to say and nothing will come out of it".
So when it all clicked together, I really started to appriciate the writing in this game.
>>342151707
Filter or not, I felt physically exhausted when finally reached the end of it. And then realised I still need to get back, while bunch of mutants are left alive and I barely have any ammo left, while it will be nigh impossible to sneak by this time.
But I didn't felt this good for a really long time after finally getting out of Depot A. Literally the old school RPG feeling of fulfilment.
>>342151596
It was hard, but at least you had an idea of what you were doing. When I got to the Tchort caves at the end, I was just running around in circles killing ghosts and shit, not really knowing what the fuck I was doing.
That's also been nerfed too. Styg took off a bit chunk of the mutant's HP so you can actually beat them without getting lucky with molotov's now.
>>342150667
Don't fight the demons, get rid of the dubuff by going down hatches.
Snails have ridiculous amount of mechanical damage reduction but as far as I kbow they are weak to everything else.Git gud
>>342152020
>Molotov's
I wish I would learn how powerful they are sooner. Grenades are pretty much worthless when compared, at least those below Mark IV
People who say that PoE was a good game/the best recent crpg made me think for the first time that someone's opinion is just shit and not worth listening to ever since I've come to /v/, and I've been here for a long time.
It's completely fucking average on its' own and completely dogshit and inferior when compared to the rpgs it tried to ape. And when presented with this fact, people who pretend to like it don't ever bring any kind of counter-argument.
So, since this is apparently Underrail thread now - anyone played as psyker? How does it even work? Is it worth it?
So far sneaking is the best build for me. It just feels right to sneak past most of enemies in the convoluted mess of caves and tunnels, at least for me.
>>342152239
While playing a sniper build I found grenades to be pretty good at ALLAHU AKBAR-ing myself (with an energy shield on) when surrounded by a lot of enemies.
>>342145480
It's kind of hard to ignore them when they're more numerous than the native population of the area.
>>342152292
There is a reason why the game is often mocked as Pillars of Mediocrity by anyone older than 20
>>342152292
I like it because it did guns right.
Nothing like making a custom party of 6 aumauas with 4 weapon slots full of firearms and starting every battle with a volley of arquebus fire.
>>342152556
I think that even my under 20 self would've disliked it. There's just... nothing of worth in it. I don't know how to explain it, but it's just not worth playing. There's no mileage to be had out of it, especially with AUTISM-O Sawyer stamping out anything that didn't fit his MMO balance standards.
>>342152292
It had a lot of hype and it was probably a lot of people's first RPG.
>>342137647
had a hard time getting into wasteland 2
neither the story nor the gameplay really grabbed me.
>>342152292
Probably because PoE was hyped to hell and back and familiar.
Underrail/Age of Decadence/etc. were pretty obscure and aimed and niches within niches (especially AoD)
>>342153073
>tfw the developed for AoD is working on a party-based RPG set in space
Feels good man
>>342137647
Kinda mediocre so far.
The only one I want to give another try is Wasteland 2 but the gameplay is just so dull.
>>342137647
I'm surprised at how many people dislike Wasteland 2.
I understand why people don't like Pillars of Eternity (it's pretty meh) or how Shadowrun is a bit casualised or how Divinity: OS rubs people the wrong way, but Wasteland 2 seemed pretty solid and fun to me.
>>342153831
I really tried to have fun with WL2 but after a while and after several bugs I couldn't power through anymore. It probably didn't help that I had one of my characters specced in pistols.
>>342152862
>PoE
>First RPG
You know what's scary?
That you are right.
For certain people this was their first RPG. And they will probably never realise how bad the game is, because even if they will stick to the genre and get in touch with worth-while material, nostalgia will still defeat any reason toward PoE
>>342146831
>It's more comparable with RPG hybrids like DX or SS than your conventional cRPG.
You fucking what, mate? You are talking nonsense.
>>342137647
Bought grimrock 2 on sale and it's fun.
>>342152965
Daily reminder Wasteland 2 was first and foremost aimed at oldfags (and I mean OLD) who played the original, not giving much interest toward anyone else. It's technically a niche that managed to generate all by itself enough hype to go "mainstream".
But in it's core W2 is pretty much niche game aimed at very specific target group.
If not my older brother, I would never even heard about Wasteland. And I'm 27
>>342153831
I want to play it for the world but the gameplay and micromanagement is really tedious.
>>342153617
Try Director's Cut.
GREATLY improves on pretty much everything. I couldn't force myself to finish regular version, but replayed DC 5 times so far.
>>342152443
>Is it worth it?
Hell yes it's worth it. Psykers are demi-gods in this game.
>>342152443
>Is it worth it?
It's the class you pick if you actually want to beat the game.
>>342152862
I'm not sure about first RPG, but I can easily see it being the first isometric RPG of many players. At least it's true in my case.However my first RPG was Skyrim.
>>342152443
Bilocation alone makes psi worth using. You can learn it fromFloating Pilars on Silent Isle.
Meanwhile, handguns are completely worthless.
>>342155236
Not true.
Beat it few times without psi powers at all. Was actually more fun this way for me.
>>342152443
Psykers are among the most powerful builds in the game right next to snipers, maybe even better since they get a fuck ton of crowd control as a bonus.
They also get the most content out of the game since you need high WILL to read the pillars and understand some of the more obscure lore.
>>342155289
>Being this tier plebean
Whoah, anon... what are you still doing in this thread?
>>342153831
Wasteland 2 started really slow. REALLY slow. The updated version made it a lot more fun, but the early chapter is still a bit of a slog.
I really liked PoE. The companions were really interesting (except for the bird paladin) and the dialogue system was fantastic. I loved building character reputations. The combat was generally interesting and threw new situations at you all the time. The writing was often really lore-dump-y, but the high points really made up for that. It was basically Icewind Dale, if Icewind Dale had a really good story and wasn't just dungeon-diving.
I feel like a lot of people hate on PoE because they have really idealized Baldur's Gate in their heads. While the second game was actually great, the first was pretty weak overall, looked terrible, had bog standard RPG quests out the ass, was in the goddamn Sword Coast, for Christsakes. Maybe a lot of people have never played tabletops.
tl;dr I don't really know what ticked people off so much about PoE besides the RTWP combat, which existed in all of the old CRPGs.
>>342155236
>implying
See pic in >>342152110
>>342155519
>Lore
What. The. Fuck. Happend.
Why are we under the surface? Why it's a metro and not conventional shelter. Who the hell were Biocorp and what the hell they were even doing.
I mean the game is great, don't get me wrong. loved every single bit of it. But I still don't understand the backstory of the world itself.
>>342155236
Nah, you can beat it with nearly anything. I just recently beat it with a Deus Ex build (DX-compatible skills and feats only, so things like crafting are out, final destination) and the difficulty never became unbearable. Of course by now I know the game inside out, so that helps.
In reality Psyker is the class you pick if you want to beat the game to a bloody pulp and piss on its corpse.
>>342137647
Wasteland 2 I didn't play nearly enough to say anything about it.
Underrail is pretty great, stopped playing it because my character turned out to be too weak and I pirated it, waiting for a good deal for it now.
Shadowrun is shallow shit.
>>342155617
I'd like to see sniperfags do the gauntlet.
>>342155350
>Meanwhile, handguns are completely worthless
>implying
They are certainly inferior to most other options in the game but I did finish the game with a dedicated pistol build. Shit was fun.
They also make for a good backup weapon on sniper builds since they get no range and STR penalties, at least until you find an assault rifle with no STR requirement.
>>342155543
>The companions were really interesting (except for the bird paladin) and the dialogue system was fantastic. I loved building character reputations. The combat was generally interesting and threw new situations at you all the time
But they're not. They're all boring and their stories are poorly paced. The dialogue system did absolutely nothing new. The reputations did not matter AT ALL and combat was really simple and tedious, and, at least when I played, every encounter was easily defeated by a cipher with a pistol. Reading this kind of posts makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
>>342155543
>Here, lets shitpost to pretend PoE is not just plain, boring and absolutely average
It's not about idolisation, anon. It's about how painfully mediocre PoE is when compared with pretty much any isometric RPG of the 90s and early 00s
>>342142461
The opinion of a scholar and a patrician.
Although I'd move Wasteland 2 and Div:OS to garbage.
>>342155787
I did.
Not harder than on any other build really, even easier than some. You always get a pretty good rifle at the start, most snipers put points stealth and traps etc.
>>342155543
>tl;dr I don't really know what ticked people off so much about PoE besides the RTWP combat, which existed in all of the old CRPGs.
The massive empty world with nothing in it, and the terrible pacing that made a lot of people stop playing after finishing Act 2.
What good is an RPG where the exploration is terrible?
>>342155521
Well, it's the truth. There's no point in denying it. As for why I'm in this thread, I'm here because the games discussed here are relevant to my interest.
>>342152292
>People who say that PoE was a good game/the best recent crpg made me think for the first time that someone's opinion is just shit
Best recent? Don't know about that but it isn't like it's a genre that has tons of games coming out every quarter. When your competition is shit like Wasteland 2 it's hard not to look incredible.
>>342155974
>What good is an RPG where the exploration is terrible?
I'd say the story, characters and dialogue, but PoE did not do well in either of these regards.
>>342149028
(you)
>>342155543
>I really liked PoE. The companions were really interesting (except for the bird paladin) and the dialogue system was fantastic. I loved building character reputations. The combat was generally interesting and threw new situations at you all the time. The writing was often really lore-dump-y, but the high points really made up for that. It was basically Icewind Dale, if Icewind Dale had a really good story and wasn't just dungeon-diving.
The companions were terrible, dude (with the exception of Durance and maybe Grieving Mother). The quests were bland and uninteresting, the world was tiny and filled with backer NPCs which ruined immersion, and I don't know what kind of wacky-backy they were smoking when they came up with the stats/combat system.
One thing I will give it credit for is it the amazing art though. It's a very pretty game.
>>342155815
Nah, for me handguns never had the appeal. Crossbow does all that gun can and more, while having great utility due to trick bolts. Other firearms are much stronger and versalite.
Pistols are simply underpowered, ammo is by default much more costly than bolts and as your own filename suggests, .44 sucks, just like every other caliber. Handguns simply lack raw power.
>>342156129
>Suggesting unironically W2 is worse than PoE
>>342154708
I did and thought it was still quite meh.
>>342156329
Big part of my pistol build was using acid 9mm. Given that this build was all about getting as many shots/turn as possible, that bonus damage really adds up.
.44 sucks when compared to 9mm handguns, but that unique Tommy Gun SMG with explosive .44 is basically a full auto grenade launcher.
>>342155841
>A wizard who used to be a part of the Big Bad Cult that has multiple personality disorder.
>An insane human priest who grapples with his own faith in his God versus what that faith made him do.
>An outcast warrior who is looked down upon for the religion of his ancestors that only barely survived the gruesome civil war
>The cipher that barely deals with the guilt she feels for lying to dozens of grieving families and ruining their children
>the druid that is a fun-loving cannibal who strays into his animalistic habits a bit too much
>the bard archaeologist trying to discover the history of his own people
>bird paladin
>eskimo dorf ranger
Sorry, there were two sort of mediocre companions.
The stories played out over intervals, not all at once. Each of them had a quest, and had conversations with the character about the nature of their motivations.
The dialogue system had a reputation system for personality traits. Please point me to another game that does this. It actively encourages players to roleplay their characters and many NPCs actually change their reaction to you based on your reputations. Combat was about as complex as most other CRPGs, except at the high level when you could cipher cheese through everything, but that's what the higher difficulties were for.
Did you even play the game, or are you just shitposting?
>>342156656
Not him, but if you seriously consider any of this impressive, you son never played other RPGs and got baited by hype around PoE.
>>342155841
>mfw that assassin ran with proper form.
Nips wrecking nips was the height of Japanese culture.
Any fags interested in Bard's Tale 4?
>>342156656
I didn't say they were mediocre, I said they were BORING AND THEIR STORIES WERE POORLY PACED.
They are good on paper but they DID AND SAID FUCKING NOTHING THE ENTIRE GAME AND THEIR QUESTS WERE SHORT, RUSHED AND CAME AND ENDED OUT OF THE LEFT FIELD. Aloth turning up after fleeing the burning city and going "Oh btw, I was hired by the bad guys to spy on you." and then you being given 3 options, two of which were to ignore it and it never being brought up again sure was amazing, huh.
Here's a hint, jackass: Just because their bios are an overwritten slog doesn't mean it's good. If you want to see what good and interesting and fresh party members are, play MotB, a game that Obsidian was desperately trying (and failing) to re-create.
>>342156656
>Meme characters with zero consistiency are a merit for a game
Lads and gents, average PoE player.
What if I told you the best combination of characters was a vendor, a tribal, a bar owner and a robo-dog?
Or a cleric, an old drunk, an insecure dwarveboo and a dog?
No bullshit, straigh-to-the point characters. But how can you know, it you were still using ladder to get on the carpet when both of those games came out.
>>342156656
>Each of them had a quest, and had conversations with the character about the nature of their motivations.
They had a lot to say, but most of the quests were pretty short and unfulfilling. I did like Eder's and qt eskimo dorf's quests though.
>>342155701
Man, /v/ is not a good place for lore discussion. We never managed to get any in-depth Underrail lore talk going, this place is simply not suited for this kind of shit.
That being said, only your last question was answered in the game, the rest for now involves so much speculation that it's best to just wait for the sequel. But at least Styg and co know.
>>342157334
>the rest for now involves so much speculation that it's best to just wait for the sequel
Fuck that man, that'll be another 5 years from now or something.
>>342157028
>THEIR QUESTS WERE SHORT, RUSHED AND CAME AND ENDED OUT OF THE LEFT FIELD
I agree but I actually liked how Eder quest ended.
No bullshit miracle reveal, the chances of learing the truth were low and he didn't learn shit as expected. He knew that from the very beginning but still wanted to give it a shot because it was his only option.
>>342156317
I'd agree with you that there weren't many side-dungeons to delve into, the main quest ventured into a bunch of them, including Caed Nua, which was a really long dungeon that you could do at all parts of the game.
Once you got to Defiance Bay, there were quests and NPCs all over the place. The first town only had a couple of sidequests, but that didn't bother me much.
>>342156770
I never said it was impressive, but they're far from bland.
>>342157058
So it's terrible to try to break out of archetypes?
>lel i bet u never played any of these other games
>>342157218
Grieving Mother and Durance's quests were moreso about the dialogue behind them.
>>342157028
I don't know about rushed, but the quests were about growth with the characters. Sometimes that was through asking the player about their motivation, sometimes it was by actually going and doing something.
PoE was great. It wasn't MotB, it wasn't Planescape. It was a simpler game than that, and was a proof of concept. It was an attempt to prove that Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale could be made in this day and age.
>>342155701
>Why are we under the surface?
Not enough information in the game. All we know is that the surface is heavily contaminated.
>Why it's a metro and not conventional shelter
Upper Underrail is regular civilian metro while lower Underrail is actually a secondary system build as a shelter.
>Who the hell were Biocorp and what the hell they were even doing
They were basically a huge scientific organzation that also ruled over the whole Underrail at one point, so they were free to conduct a fuck ton of experiments as they pleased. Pretty much everything in the game is related to Biocorp in a way.
> But I still don't understand the backstory of the world itself
It takes a lot of digging to understand and a lot of things is still not clear. The ending was a huge cliffhanger, too,
>>342157489
His quest didn't end abruptly because they deliberately made that choice, his quest ended abruptly because they were too incompetent to pace it out properly throughout the game, just like every other companion quest in the game. And also too incompetent to do anything with the world they've created.
And even then, let's say that it was "deliberate". Good job, you've deliberately wasted my time and gave me an unsatisfying conclusion after a lot of build up and fluff. What did you get out of it?
>>342157486
Maybe not. At least now they have a finished engine and a system in place, and the worldbuilding is pretty much complete too. I'd say it'll be done in three years at worst. After they start working on it, that is. And they still haven't.
My worst fear is that Styg will decide to follow Iron Tower's example and start a new IP instead.
>>342157843
>It was an attempt to prove that Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale could be made in this day and age.
But now we have the technology to make games better than Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale? Why must we tread the same waters and deliberately make design choices that were made back then because they lacked the technology?
>>342158290
Because that's what the people that specifically backed that Kickstarter project wanted out of the game.
>>342158087
>What did you get out of it?
The realization of futility.
Not every quest should end in PC succeeding. Sometimes it's good to be reminded that you are just another person in the game world and not a special snowflake.
>>342158087
>And also too incompetent to do anything with the world they've created.
But a 2nd game is coming. How can you even know this.
>What did you get out of it?
They shattered your expectations.
That's what PoE is all about.
Eric talked about it a while ago. Even the central theme of the narrative is meant to go against everyone's expectations. They chose to tackle what everyone takes for granted in RPGs - the existence of Gods. Another thing people take for granted is positive endings to quests where matters are solved. Sometimes there is just no answer.
Could it have been executed better? I have no doubt.
Was it executed terribly poorly? I don't think so.
In Éder's case I initially also felt "what the fuck man, that's it?", but upon further thinking about it I realized that not everything needs an answer, because sometimes there just isn't one.
>>342158352
But people wanted BG2, not BG1 with autistic balance, so they've already taken some liberties. They also wanted a good game, which it didn't deliver, either.
Anybody in here play Fallout 1.5 Resurrection yet? Is it worth waiting for the translation?
>>342158497
>>342158518
>It's deliberately shit to teach you a lesson
How are you people better than neogaf posters? I'm not some faggot who needs instant gratification, but I can tell subversion of expectations from sloppy writing.
>>342158859
>I'm not some faggot who needs instant gratification
doesn't seem like it m8
also nice reading comprehension
>>342158859
No, you just want to always win. Not every story has an ending. You didn't get closure, because his brother died. That's it.
>>342157843
>Once you got to Defiance Bay, there were quests and NPCs all over the place.
>>342158859
>my expectations are not met so it's shit
Why are you seeing things in black and white?
Just because the game was medicore in a lot of aspects doesn't mean that every single part of the game can be dismissed as "sloppy writing".
>>342157843
>So it's terrible to try to break out of archetypes?
Yes, because the only option for being original is lolsrandom shit and special snowflakes all over the game.
>>342158971
The quest part is right though, there was a lot of side quests in Defiance Bay.
Obsidian has never made a good game
>>342158971
Not immediately upon entering, but after you do the quest underneath the Temple and get to Act 2, the game opens up tremendously.
>>342157925
Different anon, but similar subject. What year... no, wrong. What century it is anyway? From all I've collected myself, it might be something between 25 and 26th century.
>>342158931
>>342158937
>>342159137
Not him, but holy shit, please tell me you are just trolling...
>>342159137
>>342158937
Are you an idiot? Did you read what I wrote? The quest was objectively poorly paced and had a shitty ending. Just because it was "deliberate", it was still a weak and unmemorable quest. They could have done a good thing, and instead haven't.
>Buh huh huh but not every quest has to be memorable
But no quest from PoE was memorable, and neither was the story.
>>342159612
well you certainly remember a lot of it
>>342159405
>What century it is anyway? From all I've collected myself, it might be something between 25 and 26th century
Never mentioned as far as I know, the only pointer is that all the unique firearms are from our era and are considered rare antiques in-game.
>>342158937
>It's stylistically designed to be that way and you can't undo that. But we can diminish the effects of it.
I guess according to you the prequels were also shit because not every movie has to be good.
>>342159704
I'm glad to see you've run out of arguments.
>>342145079
Well, for me, I didn't get into the cRPG genre until after I've played and completed Underrail. I used to have a hard time getting into games like Fallout 1 and 2, but investing some time in Underrail made me fall in love with the genre and helped me ease into games like these. Something about how rich the world feels, as well as the crazy amount of builds you can create. Underrail easily became one of my favorite RPGs of the last decade or so.
>>342159405
We don't even know for sure if we are on Earth at all, let alone the year.
>>342159964
no use arguing against someone who has the reading comprehension of a goldfish anon.
>>342160054
>if we are on Earth at all
You know, now that you brought it... Holy shit...
Do I have to play Grimrock 1 to play 2?
>>342160328
Nope.
Are the Deep Caverns still awful?
I loved Underrail until I spent ten hours running around the whole place and still not getting through. Game went to complete shit there.
>>342160054
>>342160201
It's probably Earth given the unique firearms all almost all real life designs with misspelled names.
>>342160614
It's easier to get rid of the debuff now and the spawn rate ofTchortmonsters is lower.
>>342160725
Great, maybe I'll finish it then.
Man, what the hell was Styg thinking with that shit?
>>342161017
Oh, the usual stuff any GM or game dev doing final dungeon thinks:
>Let's kill them all
Always amusing to see all the Pillars of Eternity hate, I don't know what brought it up, but as a huge fan of CRPG's since the 90's, Pillars honestly is my favorite of the modern ones, and I'm not even a big Obsidian fan compared to most people on /v/
Different folks, different strokes, but it is amusing to see how hard some people push for the "it sucks" angle.
>>342161251
>+1 post
>0 new posters
>>342161251
It's not Baldur's Gate 3, so it's terrible, obviously. Because some people actually miss the constant buffing before fights, rerolling for several minutes to get the right stats rolls, and how generic D&D is. I mean, PoE has some huge flaws, but it's a great RPG with some unique ideas. The story and lore isn't hugely original, but at least it's uncommon and thus interesting enough.
>>342137647
They're shit compared to old crpgs. In particular, divos and wasteland2 are complete jokes. No depth, awful writing, shit characters and bad combat systems.
>>342161649
Anon, nobody is questioning the unique value of those ideas.
Instead, people question the execution of them. This is a classic case of game that sounds great on paper, but the moment it's turned into real game, you realise the dev team had no clue how to handle their own game.
>>342161251
Is the White March good?
>>342161649
>because some people actually miss the constant buffing before fights
I actually do kinda miss that though, since buffs are pretty much useless in PoE. All the time wasted on buff in the middle of combat could be better spend on healing/damage/crowd control.
I also don't like the whole health/endurance system. It trivializes the game by making it pretty much impossible for companions to die and makes traps a non-issue.
>>342161251
Heh yeah, so amusing to see these fools struggle to seem more intelligent than me, heh.
>>342161649
At least buffs actually did something in BG and lasted for longer than 3 seconds.
>>342160621
I'm not so sure. Yes, some weapons and oddities might suggest it, but those just as easily could be remnants of a colonization attempt. Think about it, all of those things come from more or less the same time period, you never find pre-historic, ancient, medieval, etc. artifacts or even references to them.
Another thing is, under the monolith's influence Mateo was convinced that returning to the surface was an impossible goal. Not just hard, a matter of evolution or technology, but flat out impossible.
>>342161649
> Because some people actually miss the constant buffing before fights
Buffs in PoE suck and wizard is the best example of that.
He has a fuck ton of self buffs that last for a very short time and can't be cast before combat, and as such you are never going to cast them since you don't have enough time for something with such diminishing returns.
>>342162091
>>342162335
>>342162372
Look at all these shitheads. Casting the same shitty buffs before every single fucking fight wasn't fun at all. It was boring. It was a no-brainer. There was no decision, it's a buff, it's beneficial, you cast it.
At least in PoE you have to decide if casting this buff offsets the lost potential damage you could do instead.
Play the game on the highest difficulty and then tell me again how buffs are 'useless' and 'don't do anything'. Seriously, they are fucking crucial.
Of course there's barely a point to them if you play on story mode. Bunch of RPGCodex cucks, you are.
>>342142461
>Age of Decadence
What's so bad about this game?
>>342162091
>>342162335
>>342162356
You can thank the "muh balance" attitude by the devs. No fun allowed, everything has to be viable but challenging
>>342151518
That image is..accurate. I skimmed through 95% of the posts in this thread, but read yours.your post was disappointing
>>342162676
AoD is one of those games where what it does, it does really well, but boy does it lack in some areas.
Also, the combat makes me want to chew my own fingers off.
>>342162672
>Casting the same shitty buffs before every single fucking fight wasn't fun at all. It was boring. It was a no-brainer. There was no decision, it's a buff, it's beneficial, you cast it
As opposed to
>buffs are useless, it's a waste of time, don't cast it
In PoE?
And you were not casting all of your buffs before every single fight in BG.
>>342162871
>Also, the combat makes me want to chew my own fingers off
Why?
It's basically the same as F1/F2 but with more options.
>>342162672
>Play the game on the highest difficulty and then tell me again how buffs are 'useless' and 'don't do anything'. Seriously, they are fucking crucial
>buffs are crucial on PotD
kek
>>342142461
>AoD in garbage tier.
Found the shitter who tried to fight the Bandit camp and got assfucked.
>>342162672
But you didn't buff before every fight in BG. You buffed before tough fights with bosses and shit. It felt appropriate when I played, like a sort of organic build-up to a battle.
>>342137647
I really enjoyed Shadowrun Hong Kong, Gobbet is best character.
Are there any other 'must play' cRPGs out there at the moment, or are they all much for muchness?
>>342163220
>buffs are useless, it's a waste of time, don't cast it
>In PoE?
Is that selective blindness or are you just retarded? Buffs are essential to your survival on the higher difficulties. Good luck without them.
>>342163415
>buffs are crucial on PotD
>kek
They are. Especially in White March.
>>342162356
The idea that it's not Earth is pretty far fetched. Upper Underrail is as Earthly as metro system can get.
Imo it's just a world very far into the future and very long after the apocalypse. So far in fact that the game is hardly post-apo, since North Underraili is so miserable only because of political revolution that happened nto so long ago.
>>342163654
Blackguards
>>342163682
pls respond
>>342162068
>>342163319
>It's basically the same as F1/F2 but with more options.
I have no idea how you've drawn this comparison. They both use action points, but they're not really that similar.
And it's mainly because it's frustratingly difficult a lot of the time. I know it's supposed to be, especially when you're fighting groups of enemies, but I just found it annoying since it was a slog even with a pure combat focused character.
Merchant run was fun as fuck with no combat and skill points coming out of my ass though.
>>342163878
> know it's supposed to be, especially when you're fighting groups of enemies, but I just found it annoying since it was a slog even with a pure combat focused character
But it's manageable even with a hybrid once you get a hang of it.
I usually enjoy the gameplay and lore, story etc of CRPGs, but they always without fail have shit character models which ruins my immersion.
>>342164048
describe a good character model for a cRGH
>>342162690
>everything has to be viable but challenging
Yeah that's what gets me the most about Sawyer's philosophy. I agree that archetypes like charismatic warrior aren't supported well by 3.5e and that there's nothing wrong with them being viable "out of the box", but he trots out stupid shit like the muscle wizard to make his point and it's just embarrassing (some goon retards probably are mad they can't make viable low INT high STR wizards).
>>342163878
>They both use action points, but they're not really that similar
Both use targeted attacks, both put a big emphasis on criticals. Fallout combat was really simplistic so it's easy to compare to any AP-based system.
>>342137647
Pretty good. Just re-rolled in PoE after i killed the master below. Bringing a new party to the white march expansion.
Shadowrun hong kong up next.
>>342164305
>Both use targeted attacks
>not using Fast Shot
>>342163654
If you liked Hong Kong you absolutely have to play Dragonfall.
>>342164465
By taking away targeted attacks from Fallout you only make it more simplistic and even easier to compare to any other AP-based system.
>>342164204
not him but I'd planscape torment
Its low res of course but the models themself are interesting and detailed
>>342164204
Something that wasn't made by an intern a week before release. I was really enjoying Pillars until I realised just how ugly the characters were.
>>342164213
>INT high STR wizards
isnt that literally just a monk?
>>342162068
Way better than the main game. More fights, difficult fights, but overall lots of improvements. Makes me look forward to Tyranny.
>>342164213
can you make a low dex archer?
>>342163682
>They are. Especially in White March.
How?
Give me one example where a wizard casting a +20 deflect buff lasting seconds is better than just casing AoE CC.
Maybe *some* of the AoE priest buffs can be useful but wizard self buffs are just garbage.
By buffing himself wizard contributes nothing to the goal of killing enemies as fast as possible which is the best strategy on PotD. The fights should end quickly, wizard buffing himself is just dead weight.
>>342138290
After I maxed my level, I had no problem save scumming because of that bullshit
>>342165102
You can actually.
Not that unreasonable since bow have fast rate of fire as is and benefit from PER more.
Just bought Divinity: Original Sin EE, downloading now.
The reviews seem promising and looks great, but anyone here played it can give their thoughts?
There's a new Legend of Grimrock clone called "Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon" that is coming out soon
it looks pretty good, actually
>Gods aren't real but they can do the exact same shit real gods can do
I don't think I'll ever understand what the big deal is.
>>342137647
Personally I fucking loved Wasteland 2. It was everything it promised it would be and I'm kind of bamboozled that it is rarely brought up on /v/. It was a fantastic game and a successful old school rpg.
>>342165303
around 94 hours for me in that game, so i´m biased. If you got a friend who likes those kind of games, play it in coop.
>>342165984
Those gods are not omnipotent/omniscient primordial beings that created the world and as such don't deserve any divine authority.
This is a pretty big deal in the big scale. Imagine that religious people can't play the "Gods Plan" card anymore.
>>342165919
StarCrawlers does the same thing in space, looking fantastic as well.
>>342165303
The writing is abysmal, there are a bunch of gamebreaking bugs, many mechanics are pants-on-head, such as the ability to one-shot any encounter because you can arrange the scene before starting, some perk combinations are so OP they literally make you immortal and can be obtained from level 6 or some shit, and the only good henchmen are level 1 but unless you cheese your way to unlock them are only available when you reach level 6+, meanwhile enemies don't respawn, game was launched with only 2 non-henchmen party members (beside the two starters), their stories were beyond meaningless, it's literally "I'm angry let's kill the guy that you must kill to progress the game even if I weren't here", etc.
Plus the combat has exactly 0 depth and the weather effects, while a cool idea, was very shittily implemented (utterly imba, with freeze and stun being free turn 0 disables for the rest of the fight on the entire enemy team while every other effect takes 10 turn to setup for 10% extra average damage per turn at best)
>>342164881
if that's a legitimate roadblock then cRPGs are not for you. They're generally not a genre made for being visual treats.
>>342166869
It's jarring how shit the sprites look in comparison to the beautiful scenery though.
>>342166736
I agree with most of your post, although I still think it's a really fun game, but...
>The writing is abysmal
is just utterly wrong. The writing is phenomenal. The NPC dialogue is fucking amazingly well written, full of charm, wit and lots of whimsical prose. It's a work of art.
It's the plot, story and lore that's abysmal.
>>342137647
/v/ doesn't like anything, you know.
![Season 4 EP3 Homer the Heretic.mp4_snapshot_02.33_[2016.04.05_14.26.13].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qlVnF42.jpg "Season 4 EP3 Homer the Heretic.mp4_snapshot_02.33_[2016.04.05_14.26.13].jpg")
>>342167104
I've literally never had this problem, never known anyone else to have this problem and looking at the games right now still can't see the problem with them.
>>342167351
Fuck how the games look. If my [charname] or companions cant look good with armor or clothing on, i cant play that.
>>342167150
>the entire point of your existence is to eliminate sourcerers
>the only time you find a sourcerer, you are not allowed to harm her in any way whatsoever despite her not being any useful to you in any way at the time
>good writing
lmao
>every 5th phrase starts with "by the by"
>good writing
lmao
>literally an ancient evil has awakened and you are the chosen one(s)
>good writing
lmao
The writing is garbage both form a flow and development point of view as well as structurally
>>342167514
>>342167104
The characters aren't sprites. The models look like absolute shit because it's Unity 4. The engine can't handle 3D very well, so you either have terrible barebones models or your game runs at 10fps.
In PoE's case, it's both.
However, looks like Tyranny's models are a bit better, so there's that.
>>342167552
You're a fucking child that should go back to school if you don't know the difference between prose, writing, plot, story and lore.
Only your second point might have some relevance, but I don't remember that being an issue - or at least I didn't notice it.
>>342167750
t. paid shill
>>342167982
Good counter-argument. School's out again, right?
