Friendly reminder that Wrath of the Lich King started the downfall of WoW
>Introduced Dungeon Finder
>Introduced Heirlooms
>Introduced Achievements
>Rehashed two raids
>Shitty raids overall other than "muh Ulduar"
>Death Knights are just spooky blue eyes and voice filter
>>341847993
you make this shit thread every day
>>341847993
don't forget:
>season5
>ruined clear progression raiding with 10man version, heroic 10mans, normal 25mans, and heroic 25man raids of the same raid
lich king was ok
if we could call it the worst expansion wow would sitll be humongous
>>341848320
>mfw Ulduar was made obsolete 4 months after release
No game lasts forever my son.
>posting pasta every day
mental illness is no joke anons
>not The Burning Cucksade
>the expansion that ruined PVP by making BGs irrelevant and the shitty death-match mode the only thing worthwhile
>the expansion that had two (2) decent raids (Kara and BT)
>the expansion that homogenized the factions by making shamans and paladins available to both
>the expansion that completely bastardized the lore to levels that WC3 and WoW classic could never dream to achieve
TBCucks will defend it, but that expansion was really the beginning of the end.
>>341849851
You forgot flying mounts and welfare epics and fucking daily quests
You make this fucking thread EVERY DAY and you're still wrong. Kill yourself my man.
>>341847993
>Blizzard merged with Activision in 2008
all franchises dropped their level of quality, adapting them to the most casual people. This translate in:
- WoW start downfalling
- Diablo 3 is redesigned in the middle of its development.
- Poor expansions for SC2.
- "F2P" "games".
Its sad
>Hellfire Citadel
>430+ days
>>341850146
>Welfare gear
That at best could only make you do heroic dungeons
>>341849851
Two decent raids are better than one :^)
>>341851189
Oh yes Blizzard fucked up real good with Warlords. Instead of giving the players a new raid wing they gave us MYTHIC RAIDS! Enjoy doing the same content JUST SLIGHTLY HARDER AND BY THAT I MEAN MORE STATS TO THE ENEMIES
>tfw just started playing wow again for the first time since vanilla and enjoying it
Most of the simplifications are for the better imo. The only thing I don't like much so far is that leveling is so fast you don't even enjoy the zones and the specialization crap is pretty dumb. Then again I only just got to 70 so far.
>>341847993
It also started the class homogenisation shit. Warriors with Leader of the Pack etc.
>>341850795
Techinally it isn't made every day last time it was made was three days ago so OP probably got banned for shitposting
>>341849687
>yfw Blizzard predicted it
>>341851997
Also I think buffs stopped being stackable or something too. Like Mark of the Wild and Blessing of Kings both did basically the same thing, and didn't stack. I can't remember exactly but I think similar buffs wouldn't stack either. Like +stam and +stam buffs, only one would work, the other did nothing. Am I remembering this right?
Trial of the dogpiss is when it all went to shit your correct OP.
>>341852560
That was around 2009 when they changed it so yes
>>341852578
I enjoyed this raid for what it was
But after Ulduar it may as well have been a shit in my mouth
>>341852720
I was so disappointed when I read that in the patch notes. As most classes my favourite thing was getting MotW + BoK. Stats for days.
>>341847993
Yes it did start the downfall but it's effects weren't felt by the majority of the fanbase until Cata which only amplified the problems.
>Shitty raids overall other than "muh Ulduar"
ICC was fine, it just overstayed it's welcome due to being the last major raid in the expansion. Reusing Naxx would have been fine if they didn't butcher the difficulty, Kind of feel sorry for people who raided it in Vanilla though, TOTC should have been a Nerubian raid.
>>341849851
TBC had a lot more good than bad and fixed quite a few problems that Vanilla had.
>the expansion that had two (2) decent raids (Kara and BT)
>Implying SSC, TK and Sunwell weren't decent
If anything BT was mostly a disappointment difficulty wise considering how hard Kael and Vashj were.
>>341853140
>TOTC should have been a Nerubian raid
My biggest issuse with ToC is the fact that it made Ulduar obsolete the moment it hit out
>>341847993
Nope. it was the apex. the beginning of the end. purists didn't like it because it appealed to hardcore as well as casual audiences, it had lore people cared about, it had dungeon finder pre let's make every fucking dungeon a piece of piss so retards can do it.
Do you remember the zandalari dungeons, that shit was fucking sick. no it wasn't that hard but it wasn't the fucking "participation award" every random dungeon was afterward.
It introduced some great ideas just before blizzard decided to go maximum ogredrive on shitcasual shit
>>341853318
That could have easily been avoided if the welfare gear was only equal to heroic dungeon or Naxx gear and ToC was tuned to require Ulduar 25 equiv gear to beat.
>>341853920
Even as a casual player I really wish the welfare gear had stayed as it was in BC - decent entry-level stuff that might skip you over a few heroics and maybe some low level raids, but that's it. Ever since WotLK I felt so forced to always do the newest shit, and even if I wanted to, doing the older stuff was a chore. Even when I could do it, it was usually with people who were full-out welfare geared and thus boring as fuck for some fights.
I like progression, attunements and shit can die in a fire, but I don't know why proper progression had to die with them.
>>341854434
I think you forgot about Magesters terrance and the Isle in general, Covered in Welfare gear that made most of SSC/TK (bar Kael/Vashj) a breeze. But I Welfare should only exist to set people up for the first raid tier in the expansion and they should have to progress through the raid tiers themselves
>attunements and shit can die in a fire
Attunements were fine in BC (They could have skipped out on the heroic keys I guess), it just required you to do the previous raid tier before doing the next one like you should.
>>341854720
But I agree*
>>341851189
IT SEEMS WE HAVE VISITORS
TO ARMS!
>>341852578
After Ulduar, this raid just seemed so dull in comparison.
>have one, if not THE, biggest game developer team in the world
>still can't produce any worthwhile content
How do you manage to fuck up this much?
>>341854949
Activision.
>Le flying is bad meme
If its bad then why did people demand it to come back in WoD
>>341855190
m-muh werl pee vee pee
PvP hasn't made any fucking sense since vanilla and shouldn't have been in the game outside of arenas
>>341855190
Because the only people who play WoW anymore are mindless drones who exist only to grind shit in the most efficient (read:boring) way possible?
>>341855190
People thought it would be novel - which it was, for a while. But then you realize how ridiculously impractical being forced to stay on the ground is.
Sometimes you just want to get from point A to point B and flying is infinitely better at this that ground mounts.
>>341855689
It was a fine enough idea, but ever since a few patches into Vanilla, the balance between people with endgame gear and people without has just been too disparate for world PvP to be anything but a series of ganks.
It's a shame the idea of having to control areas so you can quest in them, and always be on your toes really interested me. I wish there was a PvP focused MMO that didn't revolve around zerg on zerg combat, and instead those little skirmishes you'd find while leveling.
But MMOs are dead.
>>341855465
>pvp
>running around a pilar
pick one
>>341856201
>It's a shame the idea of having to control areas so you can quest in them, and always be on your toes really interested me.
i remember reading before wow launched about "conquested zones"
i was so hype for that
expecting to take over cities and zones and keep it to our faction and defend them when needed
i'll never be hyped for another mmorpg
warhamer tried but , they removed it i think?
>>341849851
You forgot TBC gave Horde Blood Elves; which totally ruined the faction.
>>341856314
battlegrounds should have been huge fucking gladiator arenas instead of actual battlegrounds that were supposed to have lore significance but never advance in anyway
>>341856467
>See those capturable bases in early BC
>Think they're going to be really important world PvP content
>turns out they're just side shit you can capture if you're feeling bored, and gank lowbies around
I've never been so disappointed in my life
>>341855465
Even then flying mounts didn't ruin world PvP
>>341856562
Well it's not like they'd ever join the Alliance and Slyvanas understandably has a soft spot for them
>>341856693
for me it was what you did while waiting for the slackers of the raid to come online
Everyone who sayes dungeon finder and bg que ruined their system, is a casual player. Walking to the same dungeon for the 14th time, or standing in a capital city for pvp waiting for it to pop is a TERRIBLE design. Stop shitting on a system that's not built for you casual scum. Pretending as if there isn't a way to chat with people other than /s
WotLK > MoP > Cata > WoD > BC > > > vanilla
This is objective fact, if you disagree you are a casual.
>>341857163
At least put some effort into baiting people
>>341856697
>The player mentality has changed and they've become more goal-oriented and are unlikely to engage in the kind of behaviour you might describe as "fucking around".
This is so fucking true it hurts.
All people do in modern WoW is grind for their fucking autism points. I knew the very moment I was in a battleground and someone said "Let them win so we can get our honor faster" that the game was dead to me.
What killed WoW was that people started trading actual fun for an obsessive need to progress. The actual game could have stayed the same, but those people still would have killed it for me.
>>341857163
TBC ~ WotLK >= Vanilla > Cataclysm > WoD > Mists
To be quite honest.
>>341849851
>>the expansion that ruined PVP by making BGs irrelevant and the shitty death-match mode the only thing worthwhile
Good, arena is the best part of the game. The only people who complain about arena are the people that can't even get Challenger.
Reminder that vanilla started the downfall of WoW
>introduced WoW
>>341857414
i'm paying a monthly fee to play a MMO
not to play a shitty 5vs5 call of duty shit mini-game
>>341857414
People who don't like arenas can't into coordination and teamwork. It actually takes skill, particularly 3v3.
>>341857325
fucking this.
i was doing an experiment the other day... i got drunk and resubbed to WoW after talking about it with a friend's drunk friend.
i typed out a bunch of notes, but it's pretty raw... here i'll just post everything i took down and y'all make heads or tails of it
- ugh i don't wanna walk that far
- look around. flightmaster has a special "fp"
- rare spawn killed by multiple players
- 2 blues, one upgrade, barely any work
- another rare gangbang, not much reward
- horde and alliance gangbanged an elite for quest progress
- i like defending these banners...kinda. it'd be cool if bad guys start doing more complex shit as more people are within the killzone. but it's really just mindless.
- i felt satisfied when i found a flightpath and the next step of the quest
- the map suggested i could get to my next quest objective one way, but i actually couldn't. i had to take an extremely long path around it. granted, i didn't think to use the fp for half the trip.
- found a rare. ran into too many enemies at once. died. someone else got it.
>>341857686
- had to keep looking at map to navigate to next objective. frustrating, annoying. relieved to turn it in, but not happy.
- flight to new objective at base was a relief. gave me a chance to soak in atmosphere.
- battle plan...the fuck am i choosing here?
- would be nice if i could pick what buff i get from food i buy from vendors. but if i wanted that bonus i'd get it from learning cooking, so that's fair. then again...as long as i'm in tank spec i don't really die. and i don't have to press a lot of buttons or get out of the way of much. i just have to not be an idiot and pull 1,000 things. and even if i do, a crowded area will have plenty of help. and even if i do die--i get inconvenienced. there's no real penalty...is inconvenience a penalty?
- oh god dammit it's another fill up the bar thing.
- was kinda fun trying to find people to do the objective with.
- but when they left, i was bored again.
- if i play frost and go against these gronns it's a countdown until death. if i go blood i inevitably win, but it takes a long time.
- dude, this is just different ways of doing the saaaaaame shit. at this point i'd rather sort out my fucking inventory JUST FOR A CHANGE OF PACE.
- ok--why do i want to do these quests? to get flying. why do i want flying? to do more quests. fuck that.
- raids. why would i want to raid? to get gud gear. then what? git gud geer. then what? git gud geer. and i guess to git the guddest gear you need to join the appropriate guild.
>>341857686
I love taking drunken notes. It's fun as fuck to see what stupid shit you wrote when you wake up the next day.
Its a series of changes really.
It all stems from the "only 2% got to see naxx" mindset blizzard adopted after BC
Funny enough, we've come full circle and now there is 0 content for anyone to enjoy after a week into an expansion/content patch
The systematic removal of game mechanics, especially ones revolving around character progression has pretty much fucked the game.
Legion is going to try and reimplement progression back into the game with mythic only dungeons, the mega dungeon, ect, ect, but I feel that the damage has already been done, without a strong baseline of character progression, going from retard mode into non-retard mode, with only a massive wall of senseless RNG grind between the two, I can safely say it will fail.
Despite me agreeing with you guys something tells me even if I joined a vanilla private server it still won't recapture the magic I experienced back then. Anyone joined a vanilla private server and this happened?
>>341857791
and mythic is done by less than 1% , or thats what the statists said last time i checked
>we want everyone to see content so LFR!
>wait mythic only content! can only do this phase/boss if you do everything on mythic!
>>341847993
- DUNGEON finder is good.
- Heirlooms are good. Sure, they're not good enough, but they're still good.
- OK
- One
- Naxx and ICC were awesome, leaving TotC as the only bad raid (hell, the only non-good raid)
- As opposed to all of the special identities the other classes have?
With all that said, what WotLK did was set the stage for the downfall. Nothing it did was bad (other than travesty of heroic dungeons), but many things it did were expanded upon, which resulted in the downfall.
>>341857551
Arenas are fun, but so are BGs, just for different reasons.
Why couldn't we have both?
>>341851189
The best part is they have had the same problem since Wrath and it has only gotten worse despite their promises to not have raids out for a year. I think they have actually gotten worse as at least in Wrath they added a mini raid.
>>341857791
Modern WoW progression is literally a wall, it's retard mode all the way until the very last tier where things actually start to present any challenge, and then it's too much for a lot of people.
It's going to fail.
>>341857791
My only experience of Naxx was one poorly-assembled raid on the test server (where everyone had the best gear by default) where we wiped on the first mob pull.
I'm not a raider. I've never been a raider. And I quit WoW all the same after Cataclysm, because I did not see the value in a shameless, streamlined leveling path just so I could grind the same piss-easy dungeons and raids over and over again.
WoW was ruined by welfare.
>>341858058
they could start going back and release stuff between last raid of exp and the new exp
>neburian kingdom (in lore bigger than northrend) with raids and shit
>the 3 isles from the last 3 expansions they removed (dont remember the names)
>flying combat! as advertised in the wotlk box
>the portals around obsidian sactum
>the water raids of cata that were cut
nevermind that costs effort
>>341857791
Vanilla had less game mechanics and less abilities/spells than any other WoW game
>>341857163
WotLK>MoP>BC>Cats>vanilla>>>>>>] wod
>>341858446
While this is true, players have less control over said mechanics
Every spec is forced into a cookie cutter play style with no customization or tailoring, even the "illusion of choice" still had many steps before you were BiS geared in which you had to take into account which items were really upgrades or not.
>>341857163
TBC > WoTLK ~ Vanilla > MoP > Cata >>>> WoD
>>341858671
>He liked pandas
Top kek
>>341858029
>dungeon finder is good
>cataclysm's launch proved otherwise
It was well received in Wrath because everyone already outgeared and knew the encounters and still had the orignal mindset of helping newbies learn, but even then you'd automatically quit and requeue if you got Occulus or Halls of Reflection
In cataclysm it was a fucking trainwreck, they had to introduce so many mechanics and nerf all the content just to get people to stop kicking people for being 'undergeared' (aka not BiS from stuff past the dungeons itself)
>>341847993
This again? Don't you have better things to do? And we all know that Legion will redeem WoW.
They canned pristine servers
The one thing that could have fixed everything
>No LFD/LFR
>not retarded copy pasted difficulties
It would have been a clean slate, but no, fuck that said Watcher, you're all going to live in my skinnerbox social expiriment and like it.
>>341847993
>Introduced Dungeon Finder
Wrong
>Introduced Achievements
Wrong
>>341859430
>They canned pristine servers
They did?
>>341859764
Every interview with water since his big post about it has pretty much been him backpeddling.
>>341859083
Cataclysm's launch dungeons fucked people up because they were used to WotLK's dungeons. As someone who was used to BC, I laughed at Cata's dungeons.
I do agree that Cataclysm should have been a midway point to going back to BC difficulty, and then have MoP be BC difficulty.
>>341859982
Thats not the point though.
You can't have challenging dungeons with LFD.
Dungeons should be something that brings players together, LFD does not do that, i makes everyone fucking cancerous.
>>341860217
The LFD tool doesn't get worse people into PUGs. It just makes creating groups easier.
>>341860320
>doesn't get worse worse people
It does.
>>341859982
>ataclysm's launch dungeons fucked people up because they were used to WotLK's dungeons. As someone who was used to BC, I laughed at Cata's dungeons.
100% agree with this, cata HCs were easy as long as you knew how to CC and CCing in cata was piss easy compared to TBC.
>>341860360
Sure, I'll bite. How?
>>341860320
If LFD didn't exist, those people would never get into a group, or at least, they wouldn't be as bad as they are.
Again, you cannot have challenging content tied to LFD, thats why every dungeon and raid that uses a dungeon finder is pretty much soloable by a good tank
>>341860453
By selecting random people with no skill check (which of course would be impossible in any case), how dense are you?
The only reason LFD groups are able to clear dungeons is because they are stupidly easy.
>>341860459
>If LFD didn't exist, those people would never get into a group
What makes you think that? When you're making a group in the premade group finder and someone applies, how do you personally determine whether or not that player is good?
>>341860613
To add further, did you not see what happened at the molten core event?
The retards that play today are completely incapable of any kind of group coordination.
>>341860613
There was no skill check to getting into BC heroic groups either.
>>341860628
Because those people would be blacklisted by the server they played on if they, LFD is like trying to get /b/ to work together.
That's common knowledge anon
>>341860628
>check spec
>check gear
>check enchants
>check gems if they will ever be a thing again
Basically check that all the basic stuff is done right, of course it was easier in the past when there was more stuff to check and specs were more "complicated" in the sense that you could easily spot a retard placing random points, nowadays that's a bit harder but still doable.
>>341860735
No, but you still had to finish them
The completion rate of Cataclysm dungeon PUGs before the mass nerf was the lowest in WOW history.
>>341860793
I'm sure there are a couple of people who record the names of bad players, but there is no way they are not in the extremely small minority.
>>341860735
Attunaments were a skill check itself, the grind usually weeded out most retards and because there was a limited community usable on the server you eventually got to knew everyone that was good and needed to run HCs, bringing close together those people.
>>341860896
Admittably some cata heroicsStonecorewere retardly overtuned.
>>341860835
Is that what you do currently? Do you currently go to the person's armory? And as you say, everything is extremely simple. I almost never see someone with an objectively wrong talent or stat priority.
>>341860896
This was about getting into groups and the quality of the people allowed in. The LFD tool doesn't get worse people into groups. It just makes creating a group easier.
As I said, it was low because people were used to WotLK. If people were used to BC, they would have been no problem at all.
>>341861118
>s that what you do currently?
>2016
>playing retail wow
t o p k e k
>>341861118
And you're missing the point again.
You can't have challenging dungeons with dungeon finder.
Dungeon finder does make finding groups easier, it also makes completing a difficult dungeon next to impossible when your tank doesn't even nessisarily speak the same language as you.
>>341860949
Getting revered (honored?) with the specific faction was the only attunement for basically every heroic. I think Shattered Halls was the only one that required something else, and all that was was killing the Fel Reaver (Arcatraz was just completely other heroics).
>>341861118
You'd be suprised even after all the nerfs and how OP easymode the game is now that people STILL can't even run half a wing of this place on LFD
>>341861331
Revered was the req, some other HCs took more like alcatraz and a few others that don't come to my mind, trust me, getting revered with every faction wasn't something all casuals could do.
>>341847993
Exept it did not. Wow peaked at wotlk, and started to die after the launch of cataclysm.
>>341860459
How the literal fuck did it take one hour to beat the first boss on LFR? I just can't wrap my head around it.
>>341847993
>Friendly reminder
Back to Tumblr, butterbeast.
>>341861354
>tfw finished 3-4 full runs of BRD on main and alts with pugs in Nost
Fucking frogs why did they surrender so easy ;_;
>>341861523
Before they nerfed (buffed?) it, LFR bosses didn't have enrage timers
>>341847993
yeah it was the start but it wasn't bad by itself
just like how hitler in ww1 probably wasn't that bad of a guy
they just went too far in the wrong direction
>>341861354
None of it due to actual difficulty. It's only people not knowing where to go and people not dismissing pets for the jump at Incendius.
>>341861430
You think casuals couldn't do the normal versions of the dungeons?
>>341847993
>>Introduced Dungeon Finder
mixed feelings on this one, but I agree that the game was probably better without it
>>Introduced Heirlooms
I agree they're a problem, specially ruining low level PVP
>>Introduced Achievements
the achievements system isn't the problem, the problem is every 2 farts netting you an achievement, if they actually made these interesting it'd be cool
>>Rehashed two raids
which less than 1% of the vanilla raiders got to experience
wait, 2? wasn't it just Naxx?
>>Shitty raids overall other than "muh Ulduar"
I disagree, and I don't even understand how people can dislike the argent tournament's ambience, bosses and not having to fight trash mobs
maybe the faction fight triggers them because the threat table is almost useless?
>>Death Knights are just spooky blue eyes and voice filter
no, they're entirely new classes and were quite unique at the time (though imbalanced as fuck)
in fact, if you're even complaining about the eyes and voice (and also they had special textures available for their skins on character select), what were you expecting them to have?
>>341861523
His entire group died so he just solod it.
>>341861506
That's because of the changes introduced in WOTLK, don't forget that naxx was also terrible and the begin of recycled content, ToC was also abysmal and while some people liked ICC I really dislike how the whole thing was structured, Ulduar was great, but that was the only worth raid of the whole xpac and let's not forget HCs that you could AoE down in 15 min day 1 of level 80s when everyone was wearing greens/blues.
All in all wotlk was great for pvp but terrible for pve.
>>341861354
>You will never again bond with complete strangers over a 5 hour overnight run of this place, then log off for for breakfast before going to sleep.
>>341861648
Oh, and people not looting the Flamekeepers
>>341861523
Because the entire group wiped but the blood DK and they proceeded to solo the rest of the encounter.
>>341861648
>You think casuals couldn't do the normal versions of the dungeons?
Normal dungeons still required CC, you also think the rep grind was as fast as today?
It's fucking clear you have no clue of what you are talking about and never played tbc.
>>341853614
it objectively ruined the meaningful raid progression of previous games. if you didn't run ulduar when it came out, you were introduced into a game where higher ilevel items were thrown after you.
the real peak probably lies somewhere in between TBC and the first patch after the ulduar release. WotLK had some awesome features, it also had the most awesome world (imo, dalaran was a pretty lame hub though) imo. but it started becoming shit rapidly towards the end, although icecrown was the last raid I really thought was amazingly well done.
>>341861765
A couple required CC. Most didn't, even the ones tuned for level 70s.
Taking a bunch of runs to get to revered is not a skill check. It's a time check.
>>341847993
>Implying Dungeon finder wasn't a good thing
>Sitting around major city spamming chat for 6 hours for a tank
>eventually give up and don't get to do dungeon
vs
>press dungeon finder button
>wait 5-20 minutes
>run dungeon
>>341861656
heirlooms would have been nice if they were just some experience boost for characters after your main one. I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to link that concept up with automatically scaling items though, it disables like 50% of what's fun about leveling up (the difficulty curve of getting your shit pushed in by new mobs then finding new stuff and abilities to beat them way faster than you used to)
>>341862004
It's a time check that forces you to understand your class, the more you play the better you become and that was enough to weed out the majority of retards, some still passed, but they were an infinitely small fraction of what the game allows today.
>>341862038
congrats you get the daily award for 'biggest idiot in wow' who couldn't figure out that spamming a couple of people in /who would get you a group within 5 minutes guaranteed every time.
what an idiot you are, you probably genuinely wasted tons of time waiting around for a group when you could've had it so much faster.
must suck to be stupid. but let that not destroy your illusions of being "above average intelligence" even though you couldn't figure out something that basic.
>>341861893
Outside TOC Wrath had fantastic raids.
Naxx, while rehashed, was always such an amazing looking raid(and lets be honest most players didn't even get past spider wing in 60 naxx) so it wasn't really a rehash for 95% of players.
Sarth 3D was actually really fucking hard and wearing that title in Dal made you feel like such a badass.
EOE was okay, not bad, not great, just okay.
Ulduar was obviously amazing and is still one of the best raids blizz ever made.
TOC was utterly boring with obnoxious artificial gating and a boring setting, also began the the trend of stupidly OP trinkets which made Humans become the mandatory PvP race.
ICC was a real gem that had its reputation tarnished by being the only raid content available for so long(because who even counts Ruby Sanctum?) But the atmosphere was great, boss battles were fresh and exciting, the heroic mode was balls to the walls hard, Arthas was everything we hoped he be.
All and all a great expansion to be a raider.
>>341862101
The scaling items are fine, but they didn't need to be so stupidly OP. They should have been on par with greens, with the XP bonus being the big draw.
>>341862117
That's still not a skill check.
REGARDLESS THOUGH, there's no reason attunements couldn't be added for LFD heroics.
>>341847993
Death knights should have been the cross class hero. Where you have to sacrifice a character at lvl 55+ to turn it into a DK.
And achievements were a mistake.
Now the Chinese are spamming services to earn super special titles you can't earn without grinding for years on dead pvp campaigns
>>341862514
>there's no reason
There is already an Ilvl check and that other at the training grounds or whatever, but they are both pointless, doesn't help that the dungeons are stupidly easy in any case.
all in all we're never seeing wow in a good nor fun shape to play, everything must be braindead for the lowest common denominator.
>>341861698
>because of changes introduced in wotlk wow kept growing through whole wotlk and 1/4 of cataclysm
ok
>>341862746
People are really bad because all the content is easy. If the content is made harder, people will get better.
Now, of course, Cataclysm did not do it properly. Going from WotLK difficulty to Cata difficulty was simply too much of a jump. However, that doesn't mean Cata was too hard. It was simply too hard compared to what people were used to. People need to be re-conditioned (although for most at this point, it would just be conditioned) to the idea that heroics should have difficulty and require coordination.
>LFD defense is in full force
God damn, I can't wait for legacy servers to be a thing, or at least make those pristine servers they were going on about.
Making 2 loot halways out of 20 "mythic only" isn't going to fix a thing, the baseline content is the problem, not the mythic shit.
I would gladly give up dungeon finder in a heartbeat if it ment they'd get rid of RNG loot with RNG stats and RNG upgrades and go back to giving us loot that is worth something
Legion legendaries are a good start, but they really should just be epics.
>>341863010
they do NOT want to elitize the game ever again, that's why they're so adamant about making vanilla servers
I believe that there's a high probability that if they ever do make pristine/legacy servers, they'll add LFD and shit to them
>>341856748
it still makes no goddamn sense that the xenophobic as FUCK night elves joined the alliance.
>>341847993
>implying Dungeon Finder is something bad
>implying Heirlooms are something bad
Achievements are objectively bad I give you that
Rehashing the raids wouldn't be a bad thing per se when they wouldn't have been so shittily easy
Releasing DeathKnights was a mistake
LFD LFR united the communty, and cross server instancing even more on cataclysm, players can still make "private" groups for 5, 25 mans and arenas, so I DON'T KNOW what some kids in here are bleeding blood from their ass about.
>>341863832
IMO there should never have been a Horde/Alliance division, what's the point if both sides never really compete for anything (except crappy PVP thats just a ripoff of FPS games)? Should have let every race have it's own independent faction.
>>341858671
Honestly this is pretty much correct.
Wrath is the best because it's the true continuation of WCIII, has arthas and ulduar.
MoP had amazing content, really the only criticisms people can level at it are 'bhut pandas' and 'muh dailies' which only affected casual shitters.
BC was the golden age of hardcore but the story was shit hyjal was a joke and gear was itemized poorly.
Cata was fun while the hard 5mans lasted but that wasn't long and the raids were above average sans dragon soul which was balls. PvP and class balance was at its worst outside of vanilla.
WoD's only bright spot was BRF which is telling that it only existed as a vehicle to bring gul'dan back.
>>341864020
>LFD LFR united the community
No it didn't, it made everyone quit, since its introducetion sub numbers have only gone down.
>>341864020
>MOP was my first MMO
>>341862719
>Death knights should have been the cross class hero. Where you have to sacrifice a character at lvl 55+ to turn it into a DK.
Blizzard was originally planning to do that but they scrapped the idea.
>>341864801
that'd actually have been really cool, imagine if they let some of the old class' skills remain on the character
>>341864097
You don't have the slightest proof DF is linked to decreasing sub numbers, if anything it was the lack of content being inject from such long periods of time.
>>341864191
>He didn't experience zombiefest.
cuck
>>341864919
That sounds cool but realistically would be a mess for people who min-max, even more so with the restriction of only 1 death knight and only 10 characters per server.
>>341865368
I'd agree that it's a problem if Blizz wasn't so bad at balancing the game. The way they are, this wouldn't make a difference.
>>341851189
literally inexcusible
It's been a downward spiral ever since BC.
>heroic version of a lower level dungeon instead of a new dungeon for max level
>biggest raids lowered from 40-man to 25-man
>removing attunements altogether
>dungeons and piss-easy raids that give better gear than older raids from the same expansion
>arenas
>killing lore-important major characters
>10/10H/25/25H versions of the same fucking raid
>LFD
>LF FUCKING R
Trial of the Crusader was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. The ICC dungeons and cross-server LFD feature didn't help either.
>>341865368
dks were fine at release
>hurr pvp/pve balance
kill yourselfs
>>341862349
>Naxx, while rehashed, was always such an amazing looking raid(and lets be honest most players didn't even get past spider wing in 60 naxx) so it wasn't really a rehash for 95% of players.
naxx at 70 was harder than naxx at 80
>>341866576
60 Naxx would have probably still been harder at 80 than WoTLK Naxx, Why did they make Naxx so damn easy?
>>341866715
Fun fact: level 80 naxx had most of the same abilities, but they delt a fraction of their original damage
>>341866715
>You will never have resistance gear sets for raids that you might have to swap during the same raid.
Good times.
>>341866951
i didn't found it annoying
but then i only spend a week farming 3 hours peer day the resist gear for frost and shadow during tbc
>>341867138
>not being the designated warlock tank for the twins
>>341847993
>No talent trees and spells being learned automatically makes leveling up feel lackluster.
>Dungeon finder essentially makes it where you never need to socialize with anyone.
>Questing is no longer challenging or fun.
>Having every flight path from the start makes exploring pointless.
>Heirlooms make the game even fucking easier.
I don't think I'll every go back to retail. I've been playing on a private WotLK server and even the tedious stuff is still fun and enjoyable. I have no idea how Blizzard could consistently fuck up their game so much, but they did.
>>341866951
>Played both a Warrior tank and Warlock "tank" in TBC
>Farming Frost, Nature and Shadow resistance for Warrior
>Farming Fire and Shadow resistance gear for Warlock
Fun times.
>>341867295
I miss warlock tanking.
>>341867417
Are you forgetting Fire resistance gear on Warrior thanks to Al'ar?
>>341847993
DKs could've been introduced better. Dungeon finder isn't good same with heirlooms. But I hardly see anything bad about achievements.
>>341867331
>>No talent trees and spells being learned automatically makes leveling up feel lackluster.
I disagree, I think it feels just as lackluster as putting a point into +1% damage with specific skill/spell, or putting a point into filler talent #3 because it's not as useless as fillter talent #2
ideally they'd make every talent interesting, but that's obviously out of the question to expect from Blizz, so I'd take the current talent system and being able to swap between different talents on the fly (most of which I enjoy, by the way) any day
>>341867710
Thankfully FR gear in BC was piss easy to get
It was NR and FrR for hydross that was a bitch.
>>341867917
Ideally we'd be getting a new spell every level or 2 and we'd have talents that lets us pick which abilities we want to specialize in.
Instead we get no choice and one spell every 10 levels past level 20, and no customization at all.
>>341867295i was the mage and i only raided till the end of BT before i gave up on the guild being a bunch of retards unable to learn from mistakes or not showing up in progress days
>>341868105
>no customization at all.
the current talent system unlocks 3 different talents every 15 levels though, and while probably not all tiers have 3 interesting choices, most have afaik, and remember that at times you'll think that only 1 of them is appealing, while a lot of people think exactly the same about another talent on the same tier
>>341868306
>New talents
>customization
Each talent 'tier" has an obvious BiS, some teirs are so brainless when it comes to picking the 'right' one too.
And many talents are a waste of a GCD in most situations.
>>341868216
I remember the mages in my guild, they were still forced to do Mc even though we were doing Naxx.
We did Naxx every week in 2 stages, with MC between.
Their faces when.
>Want to play frost mage to control everything
>instead I just spam frostbolt waiting for procs and can't do shit
Also whats the fucking point of having slows when almost everything is either immune or runs faster then your movespeed while slowed anyway?
>>341868105
>a new spell every level or 2
>>341868448
>Each talent 'tier" has an obvious BiS, some teirs are so brainless when it comes to picking the 'right' one too.
same person or not, what a fucking joke
do you reall expect people to have 50~100 spells by level 100? fucking really?
>>341868748
If they'd stop removing spells every expansion, we'd probably easily have 50+ spells in our spellbooks by now.
Problem is they keep removing mechanics and spells, so having customization is utterly pointless.
>>341868739
you can slow enemies and solo elites!
>elites are inmune
>actually being arcane and using every coldown is safer and faster to kill them
blizzard is shit
remember when aoe wasn't capped?
>>341868739
>You will never AoE farm 20+ mobs while every other class struggles to solo 2 mobs before bandaging/eating again
>>341869107
>remember when aoe wasn't capped?
I remember people disconnecting due to it.
>>341850146
I hated how they made rare items completely obsolete in TBC. Entire tier of gear progression removed instantly.
>>341868891
nobody could balance that many spells, it'd become a huge clusterfuck
>>341869610
>Implying WOW has ever been balanced
It was more fun when it was chaos.
>>341857325
I disagree.
"Fucking around" was okay since the game had staggering amounts of content and the progress through it was so slow that you didn't actually feel like you were losing much progress by doing something else.
>>341869745
I meant that it'd be absurdly ridiculous, everyone having 50+ options to use every second, they'd probably just nerf 30+ to the ground anyways and they'd be joke abilities
>>341869442
>since we can't fix it , we'll remove it!
i dont remember that problem but then
i was the one doing the aoe all the time
>>341868739
Because Frost mage in general is the PvP talent?
>>341870324
But progress is fucking boring in the end - the real fun came in the journey. End-game is a sham.
Raids were great, but do you remember the time when you finally had all the top ass gear? No, you remember what it took to get it in the first place.
>>341870682
>i was the one doing the aoe all the time
As was I, I remember watching people DC when the I and other warlocks spammed SoC on every mob on Hyjal trash
>>341857357
>WoD better than mists
>Cata better than mists
fucking retarded
>>341871086
It also helped when the gear did something.
Now that its all generic as fuck scaling ilvl there is no point in the gear itself.
I fucking loved my Dark Edge of Insanity when I got it, its still my favorite weapon of all time with that retardedly OP proc that makes stunherald look balanced.
>mfw DK gets butchered in Legion
>>341871465
The obsessive balancing of the game really did take a lot of the fun out of it.
>>341850826
why did they merged with activion?/
i dont remember blizzard having a bad period
>>341871989
You see Blizzard and Activision are both owned by Vivendi which was a water company. And seeing as most people there are old men that don't understand video games they merged them both
>>341862101
Fitting in World of Tank's free experience system would have been the best way. For those who don't know what it is:
>you get regular xp and free xp on every character you play on
>you can spend free xp on any character you want
Problem fixed.
>>341862334
Million times this. Getting a group was never an issue if you played on a populated server unless you were a drooling retard.
>>341855465
Game has a whole bunch of carebears who really hate world pvp and would like to avoid it at all costs, pvp or pve server
>>341849851
Didn't it have Zulaman and tempest keep too? And some water themed one for the bags?
>>341862038
>he can't figure out how to talk to people
How does it feel to be 100% moronic?
>>341856589
>hurr durr I never played vanilla
>I did not know there used to be long ass quest chains tied to the 3 BGs
There is a reason only the origional 3 have reputations attached.
>>341873806
there was? i dont remember it , not him
i dont remember doing a long as quest for bgs when they were released
only remember picking some quest to win it at the entrance
