Game developers are allowed to sell their creation, but mod developers aren't? What kind of fucked up double standard is that?
It would have created more incentive for mod development. Mod developers have bills to pay. Most of them can't develop mods full time. Very few are making any more than pocket change off donations. Imagine how much more productive the modding industry would be if mod developers could work full time. There most likely would have been plenty of mod developers who continued to develop for free anyways, or you cheap fucks could have just pirated the paid mods.
To me, this just looks like a bunch of entitled, selfish kids, who don't contribute anything to the community, angry at the thought of mod devs being given any compensation for their work. This is why I hate sites with downvote/upvote systems. I mean just look at this shit. Gaben brings up a totally valid point, then gets massively downvoted by the retarded redd it hivemind, outraged that mod developers might get an option to be paid for their work.
Friendly reminder: you're literally redd it if you disagree
>>341675818
Why should you get money for modifying assets that are already made?
Mod devs aren't making their own thing.
>>341676431
Arma 3 mods like Altis Life and Dayz are essentially completely different games.
Even if a certain mod isn't a complete transformation of the game, they're still doing one of the original developer's jobs, which is fixing the poorly made features.
>>341676431
>>341676669
This
OP is fucking retarded, mod makers use preexisting assets, if mod makers have to eat, then they can get a real job, or make their own fucking game. Anyone who expects to make a living off of making mods is an entitled little shit
/thread
>>341677002
>mod makers use preexisting assets
No. Tons of mods add new textures / models / voices / code to the game, fucktard. Have you ever even used a mod?
>>341677292
>Tons of mods add new textures / models / voices / code to the game
On top of preexisting ones.
>>341677567
What's your fucking point? Devs charge money for expansion packs which are added on to preexisting content.
You really want this to happend even more?
>>341677690
Their own preexisting content.
If you want to make a mod and charge for it, then make a mod, set up a website, and charge people to get the mod.
Faggot.
>>341675818
One problem with mods is compatibility. They might not be compatible with another mod you purchased, and there's no way to tell if the dev doesn't say it. Combine that with no guarantee of support and easily stolen or copied work and you get an ecosystem of paid mods that barely functions. This is exactly what happened with Steam when they introduced them.
>>341675818
Real modders do mods as a hobby, the ones that want to make cash usually end up getting serious jobs, modding for them is more like a hobby because they do it out of pure personal enjoyment.
OP you are retarded as fuck.
Paid mods fucked shit up for free ones and any motherfucker could get paid for mods they didn't make.
The only payment modders need is the blood of console children.
I would know, I am literally Trainwiz
I think bethesda should have never released the creation kit for fallout 4. The community was pretty clearly saying mods aren't worth anything, so why bother wasting dev time on modding tools?
It would completely destroy the culture, create ludicrously complex legal loopholes, fracture the community, and there is nothing that guarantees there will be an improvement of mod quality. if anything it would end with a sharp decrease in indie development because why spend hundreds or thousands of hours making a game that might flop when you can just wipe out a mod in a fracture of the time?
>>341678374
The Dayz team had to spend months making their own client separate from the Arma 3 one, because they weren't allowed to profit off the sale of Dayz, despite it being an entirely different game from vanilla Arma 3. This set them back many months of development that could have been spent improving the actual game.
Anon, you are the retard.
>>341678585
>why spend hundreds or thousands of hours making a game that might flop when you can just wipe out a mod in a fracture of the time?
If you could make a living by developing mods, there would be a hell of a lot more people developing mods, and therefore a ton of competition, just like there is with normal game development. It will be just as difficult to make a mod that sells well as it will be to make an indie game that sells well if there's an abundance of competition.
>>341678681
>dev team wanted to resell someone elses client with their game as their own had to make their own client
WOW just like every other fucking industry ever! You can mod whatever you want, but you can't rebrand it as your own and sell it as your own product!
>>341675818
When I used to mod I just stole people's algorithms and stuffed in into my own then took the credit. This alone causes many issues that were appearing on the workshop. Nowadays everything is open source and no one really gives a shit, but once you start adding monetary incentive to it you'll be seeing a bunch of no-ones expecting handouts for things they "claimed" they made.
>>341679270
Apparently this already happens in pc/xbox mods for fallout 4. People just grab pc mods and slam them onto the xbox mod thing without changing anything and claim credit.
>>341679189
>WOW just like every other fucking industry ever! You can mod whatever you want, but you can't rebrand it as your own and sell it as your own product!
Except for the thousands of youtubers such as h3h3 who are using clips from other people's videos and transforming it into something new entirely. There's an obvious difference between when someone is blatantly stealing, and when someone is transforming something into their own piece of art.
>>341675818
To be fair, I don't think paid mods are as bad as people claim, since I think most mods would continue to be free. Yeah, there was that initial rush of every mod maker making their shit 15 bucks because they didn't know what was going on, but I think it would settle down to mostly being either shit like armor and weapons for sale or largish quest and landmass mods. I don't really see much else working price wise.
Honestly wish they'd kept it going a bit longer, it would have been fascinating to see how it played out.
>>341679189
Yes you can. You just need the devs approval. Which was the entire fucking point of the paid mods for Skyrim.
>>341675818
>What kind of fucked up double standard is that?
1. Developers are developing something, and any assets they use are licensed or otherwise paid for (engine, art etc.)
2. Mods are using existing assets.
>>341679270
This happens on facebook too. People are downloading videos off youtube, uploading it to facebook, and claiming it as their own. It happens with all creative work on the internet, not just modding. Would you say that facebook shouldn't exist just because people are uploading stolen content on there?
What needs to happen is there needs to be harsher and more vigilant legal recourse for copying that will scare any thieves away. The potential for thievery isn't a reason that a platform for rewarding content creators shouldn't exist.
>>341679792
Commentating on some video isn't art especially when you're outting bullies by being a passive aggressive douchebag or just outright harassing them.
The guys a massive hypocrite and I hate his face.
Fuck off Arthmoor
>>341680282
Who said anything about art?
>>341678361
The problem is that steam decided to pick a game that had a very active free modding community and decided to add dollar signs to it. That was asking for trouble.
It probably would have gone smoother if they had someone doing quality control and picked a fresh game to try out paid mods. No one wants to pay for mods they were literally just using for free
And just putting it out there, I have no issue with paid mods. Modders work hard and I see no issue with giving money for their effort as long they have a deal worked out with the devs and a staff to assure quality. As for pricing, it would eventually regulate itself. The guy doing armor textures is gonna learn real quick that no one wants to pay 10 bucks for it
>>341680282
He's pretty actively roasting the shit out of them.
And only one person took themselves too seriously to not laugh about it, and they've become at least friendly acquaintances with the majority of people they've done videos on. Even SoFlo Fagtonio just let it drop.
Now the one guy who takes himself too seriously is suing them.
>>341677836
I don't understand this mentality where someone tells you it's impossible to give you something, and you throw a fit and call them names.
>>341677690
>>341677894
This as well as ownership over their copyrights and IPs.
>>341675818
But modding is motivated by the love of it, not money. Nehrim was basically an entirely new game using oblivion's engine and many of its assets. And it was completely free.
There would also be not vetting so people could easily make money off of other peoples' mods.
>>341676431
Why should you get money for making games from RPG maker?
use your brain a little please
>>341681448
>But modding is motivated by the love of it, not money.
Oh fuck off with this, even if you love something you still need money. You think mods are some higher form of art than anything else in gaming because they're done for free? Of course not, its a ridiculous thought.
>>341677292
And are these mods playable without the original game ? NO, because they're fucking mods. They're still using the game engine, modifications or not.
>>341681179
It's a mix of literal children and shitflinging PCfags falseflagging. Same as consolefags falseflagging with petition shit.
>>341681795
>even if you love something you still need money
so you get a fucking job dipshit. Nobody would actually be able to support themselves with mod money.
>You think mods are some higher form of art than anything else in gaming because they're done for free? Of course not, its a ridiculous thought.
I think there's a large online modding community for elder scrolls games that is centered on the mods being free and that adding monetization would only poison the well. If SureAI can release their mods for free then everybody else can too.
>>341677836
Consoles were a mistake.
mods are supposed to be free though.
leave it at that and let people do it because they love to do it. not because they want to make money.
though if the publisher decides to use their mod and sell it, then the mod should be compensated for the work he created.
isn't this how counter strike and left 4 dead worked out?
>>341682271
They're doing their job pretty well.
Every faggot like OP who makes these shitty arguments is naive and young. They have no experience with mods besides what they found for Skyrim and go along with the trend of "money makes everything better".
Mods have been free for decades. The community and the mods have been excellent for decades. Valve and Beth threw money into the mix for one weekend and almost destroyed the mod community. Even now the repercussions are felt. Only an idiot can think paid mods are a good thing.
>>341682175
>Nobody would actually be able to support themselves with mod money.
Not necessarily true, I could easily see larger quest mods making pretty good money. That one really shitty mod by the guy who got hired by Bethesda probably would have sold pretty well.
>adding monetization would only poison the well
This is almost certainly true, it'd make collaboration a minefield, which would really undermine most major efforts.
Honestly I don't really know how it'd work out. It'd get more people into modding and hopefully make the space kind of competitive, encouraging better content, but I feel like there'd be never ending cycles of people claiming others stole their content that'd pretty much undermine any potential benefits.
>>341681795
Seriously, I should be compensated for scratching my ass every once in a while because I love it so much.
>>341682557
>posting reddit screencaps
self defeating mongoloid
>>341683097
You scratching your ass creates no value for me so why would I support you?
Unless you have a hot ass.
>>341682557
No. They did it because Bethesda's games are bad unmodded.
>>341682557
They fucked it up because they picked a game that was already doing it for free, so suddenly a bunch of mods you were using free for years had a price tag. The smart thing would have been to pick something new like Fallout IV, while every mod before that game stayed free and played things out from there
>>341675818
>Game developers are allowed to sell their creation, but mod developers aren't? What kind of fucked up double standard is that?
do you know what copyright infringement entails?
>>341683460
No, they did it because Bethesda games are extremely modular and thus moddable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di6Te-plqlY
Some of the mods out there will brick your console if you download them. Shit's hilarious.
And I know when paid mods become a staple thing, I'm going to steal the content of every single popular mod, release them with different name and with slightly cheaper price and rake in the profit.
When you introduce paid mods, it opens so many opportunities for abusing pretty much everything in the community that you'd be a moron not to take advantage of that yourself.
>>341682981
>Not necessarily true, I could easily see larger quest mods making pretty good money. That one really shitty mod by the guy who got hired by Bethesda probably would have sold pretty well.
No because people would have just bought the mod and put it up for free on the nexus anyway.
> It'd get more people into modding and hopefully make the space kind of competitive, encouraging better content
It won't. You literally can't do any better than the shit SureAI does and they do it for free. Enderal comes out in less than a month if shit is on schedule and it looks to be far and away better than Skyrim itself will ever be.
>>341676431
Because it's still work and they're still creating something new.
Not everything deserves to be paid for but if you strip it down to basics what makes x amount of work creating something that is entirely new all that different from x amount of work creating something that is a mix of entirely new and already existing?
The main issue used to be that modders just didn't have the right to sell their work because they didn't have the rights to that already existing stuff. If the people making the new stuff (modders) are getting paid and the people who made the already existing stuff (game company) are also getting paid, then what's the problem as long as what was created was good?
>>341683976
This shit is a given. Consolefags don't understand mod compatibility issues, mods that have to be manually installed, load order, overwriting files, etc.
>>341675818
>No guarantee of quality
>What is copyright infringement
>damaging an existing community body with incentive to cheat, steal and scalp
Mods have always worked as the creation of additional content for a game or workarounds that the creators want to see themselves; the STALKER modding community is a great example of self-driven creation of content.
The modification of a game should not warrant such deviation from the original game as to justify fucking charging for it, putting mods behind a paywall is an awful idea in general.
>>341683976
This nigga gets it
Its like taking the freeware/open source community and totally ignoring all the licenses and packaging their shit as a rebranded piece of software
DMCA would shoot it down so much, but if mods do this, then everyone and their grandma will steal and try to make a quick buck with the mods, and itll be hilarious how butthurt people will be when people do as you said, buy their mod, rebrand, and put it up cheaper, and possibly even saying the original is the imitator
>>341681620
>Why should you get money for making games from RPG maker?
>Why should you get money for making games from Unity?
>Why should you get money for making games from UE4?
Probably because you're making the game using your own/licensed assets for that purpose.
>>341675818
There's nothing wrong with getting payed for your creation. Many games, mainly sims, have a healthy third party content creator base coexisting with a productive modding base. However, the two activities are inherently different.
Modding is an informal, leisurely activity,- it's all about what you want to make, without any of the red tape that goes with commercial software development. Modders often make things that wouldn't be feasible commercially, not possible due to licensing, too controversial, too lewd, etc.
All of that relies on the good will or uncaring of the commercial entities whose work the modders are using, modifying, remixing or adding to. Much of that goes out of the window once money starts changing hands.
If you want to make money as a third party creator, do that. But go through the proper channels, and don't mix modding into it.
>>341675818
>modding industry
Thanks OP, I think I puked in my mouth a little.
I've been modding games for some 15 years now, it's a hobby, the idea of turning modding into an "industry" would ruin everything.
Modders would stop making mods that they think will be fun and instead make mods they think will sell, it's an entirely different mentality that is very visible in the game industry and everyone hates it, lets not poison modding with it too.
No because it's using the original game as a base and using assets.
An example: Mods like Misery For STALKER or Project Brazil or TTW for NV are. They shouldn't be allowed to make money off of them.
Donations? Sure thing!
Crowdfunding a mod? Well, Getting into iffy territory with that one. That's worth a debate. I say no but there might can be made a special case for it.
Charging out right for them? No.
>>341682151
>retards I share this planet with actually believe this
Fuck you.
>modding communities then
Intense labors of love, often tied together to create great communities. Ex. Doom, Half-Life, Battlefield 1942, TES
>modding communities now
Game developers strangulate their longevity by withholding devkits, in favor of nickle and diming their customers by slowly trickling out cheap content. Games with monetized modding riddled with elitists who cut each other's throats for the spotlight, while Russians and Brazillian's scramble to steal them altogether. Genuine modding still done, slowly and painfully, on decade old game engines. Ex. Dota 2, TF2, FO3/4 & TESV
What changed was the way money changed hands. Valve and Bethesda didn't monetize modders for the good of their hearts; they did it so they could get another source of income that would otherwise wouldn't exist. Mistaking your hobby for your job creates disastrous results.
>>341688680
Stop being blinded by your own shitposting, anon. The faggotry clearly goes both ways.
Honestly I'd pay a membership to a modding community if I knew that all of them worked and most had comparability. But individually? Fuck that shit. I'd never even buy the base game.
>>341675818
Mod developers aren't just selling their creation, they're also selling assets from the base game and any middleware that the game utilises, none of which they own the rights to and cannot legally resell.
However, mod developers can in fact sell their creations, the solution is to make a total conversion and then license the game engine.
This is how we got Killing Floor, Insurgency and many other such games which began as mods.
>>341691018
These people just want money for their versions of horse armor
>>341675818
first of all if you can't make money from creating mods, then maybe you shouldn't consider making mods to make money. Leave mod making to people that actually give a shit instead of people trying to make a quick buck.
second, if a mod is an actual, real endeavor and actually worthy of "making money" then there are other avenues of obtaining said money without strictly selling it. Look at starcrafts for example; Raised nearly 100k on indiegogo. Now the mod makers raised money to develop the mod AND the mod can be free. WOW what a concept!
How's the High Quality Brick mod coming along?
>paint the road in front of my house
>now people have to pay me because I modified the road that the state built
>>341676431
>>341676669
>>341677002
>>341677567
>>341677894
>>341681372
Guess who gets a cut of the revenue
what happened to gaben?
>>341693398
He woke up.
>>341692873
Me because I shill their games?
>>341691706
>Make a game in Unreal
>Can't sell it because I used existing an framework
I don't see paid mods ever really taking off. I'm sure some big ones will make it, but eventually people are going to stop buying, but the people who bought your mod are going to demand you maintain it for years. And we all know how often mods get fucked by random game updates. Also, modders charging for their shit will no longer be able to hide behind "shut up about your problems, it's free!" when their shit doesn't work on some random person's machine for no apparant reason.
