Will someones please explain to me why people are so buttmad about this game's mechanics?
Tbh this looks at the very least somewhat mediocre, definitely not worth the dislikes in the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj3h0i0Vi7g
>>341596124
It used to be more of a traditional RPG where you selected from a short menu what you would do, and attacks were timed, like in Mario and Luigi.
Also the first two games had a 'partner system' where another character would help you in battle.
These characters were always original to the game, and were vastly beloved by fans. Much like Mario and Luigi had Fawful and Count Bleck, and Mario RPG had Geno and Mallow, Paper Mario had Lady Bow, Goombella, and Vivian.
Nowadays, Miyamoto doesn't want the series to be like that anymore, particularly from a story standpoint. No more friendly enemy characters, no more deep stories involving original villains, and gameplay more akin to an Action RPG like Baten Kaitos.
Did that help?
>>341596124
Fuck off tamabe no one is buying your shitty game
>>341596124
Thanks for reminding me that I still have to dislike it.
>>341596917
*facepalm* Dammit, I accidentally put Count Bleck as a M&L character. My bad. He was in Super Paper Mario.That game also got crap for its mechanics, but people loved the story nevertheless.
This is killing me because the visuals look so good but the gameplay is going to be shit.
>>341596124
>Will someones please explain to me why people are so buttmad about this game's mechanics?
It appears similar to the last game so people got mad.
However, no one has played the game, no one will know how the game makes up, so just wait till the game is actually out. Nintendo could surprise you.
>>341597460
I doubt it but part of me still hopes so...
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
Please stop posting and fuck off back to the cancerous hellhole you crawled out from.
>>341597750
You must be fun to be around.
>>341597394
Watch a Let's Play then.
>>341597912
Better than being cancerous.
Lurk two years before posting.
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
You have to be at least 18 years old to post here senpaichi
they turned it into a turn based action game. because people want to be limited in an action game. And fuck unique characters too
Let me save you a thread
>>341598329
holy shit, Miyamoto is senile
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
Fuck off
>>341598329
Why is Miyamoto so autistic.
It's a spinoff series, it doesn't have to preserve the original's design.
>>341596124
No partners (silent meat shields for one fight that can't be used against bosses don't count)
DUDE TOADS
Hammer EXP is worthless since you might as well avoid all fights
Cast is Peach, Mario, Koopalings, Bowser, and 900 Toads
Luigi didn't talk any, for some reason
Badges are still out
"Things" are still instantly win boss fight buttons
Basic still uses consumables
Connected world is gone
Personality is "dude, paper."
It's just a direct sequel to Sticker Star, which was terrible
But at least we finally got the succ
>>341596917
> gameplay more akin to an Action RPG like Baten Kaitos.
take that back you slanderous faggot, Baten Kaitos combat was fun and meaningful. also it's a bit weird to call Baten Kaitos an action RPG, it's turn based with a turn timer.
>>341599264
*Basic attacks still use consumables
>>341596124
Because Nintendo fanbase is full of manchilds
>literally no reason to fight enemies outside of bosses
an rpg
where fighting the enemies is actually detrimental
y do ppl h8 it lol
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
This is what happens when you filter "Gobackto Reddit", Hiro.
Because they made an excuse saying that because they have one Mario RPG series, they don't need another. Now that's bullshit.
>>341598329
>>341597460
how_do_you_know_its_shit_if_its_not_even_out.jpg
>>341597104
>>341596917
>*facepalm*
>thinks flawful is funny
>thinks Baten Kaitos is an action rpg
M&L fans are twitter cancer, PM fans have already killed themselves.
>>341597987
literal autist
>>341598329
this is the stupid thing I have ever read what the hell were they thinking?
>>341597460
If Nintendo didn't want us to formulate a negative opinion of the game then they shouldn't have shown us trailers composed of literally nothing but the things that made sticker star bad in the first place
>>341599960
Fuck off with your faggotry. Do you really want people to talk like this?
>*tickles you*
>^_^
>LOL
People are primarily assmad that it's not like the first two they grew up with. Notably with the characters and story.
However, that doesn't change that Sticker Star was a poorly designed shit game or that from what we've seen Color Splash is barely an improvement on it mechanically. And that's what actually bothers me personally about it. There are many ways they could've done a game in the same general style as SS but made it actually fun to play, but other than how the cards work they haven't improved a damn thing.
>>341598329
blame autistic nintendrones for not wanting stories in the games
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
Holy shit, Anon.
>>341598329
To be fair, Miyamoto is right that the first two games were bad to begin with, and /v/ only reveres them because of childhood nostalgia and babby's first RPG. The new games are worse but at least they realize they have to find a new direction for them.
You know how Sonic fans always get butthurt over minor changes to new character designs and ideas? (Muh blue arms?)
That's basically what Paper Mario fans, or more specifically TTYD fans, are going through right now. They are simply unable to deal with any kind of change, which is very scary for them.
I'm a huge fan of Sticker Star and am very impressed with what I've seen from Color Splash.
>>341596124
I BECAME ONE WITH TOAD! (LAUGHS)
>>341601894
>I'm a huge fan of Sticker Star and am very impressed with what I've seen from Color Splash.
>>341601894
>They are simply unable to deal with any kind of change
Is that why SPM is still considered a good game?
>>341601894
>I'm a huge fan of Sticker Star and am very impressed with what I've seen from Color Splash.
Explain yourself please.
>>341602291
He's doing it for the (you)'s
>>341596124
I'm not mad at this game yet I'm mad at Sticker Star which was a waste of time and IP.
But this one looks like it's gonna do the same shit..
>>341602291
>Explain yourself please.
I like baiting on /v/
>>341601894
Sonicfags loves a mediocre-at-best serie to begin with.
>>341601894
(you)
>>341601894
>he's still at it
>>341602291
Not him, but Sticker Star still had what I like the most about Paper Mario, which is good and outrageous humor and music. Never found a single one of those challeging so the battle system didn't bother me and the stories were always garbage unless someone is so culturally barren that they find shit like "his wife is ded so hes sad" impressive.
Then again most Nintedrones do nothing but play Nintendo games so it's not surprising that basic shit like that impresses them. As long as it's still funny and crazy, and Sticker Star very much was (Never forget the golden rule, if you can't impress, make them laugh), I have fun with it.
>>341596124
People are mad because M&L is the Mario RPG franchise while PM is now new stuff.
>>341596917
>and attacks were timed
They still are
>>341602289
The 'change' in this circumstance has nothing to do with the overall gameplay. I personally would say Sticker Star has the best over world mechanics in the series, and Color Splash seems to be taking steps to making them more accessible.
What I'm referring to when I refer to TTYD fans being upset by 'change' is the fact that the game places less of an emphasis on a story. This is why SPM is praised, despite departing from the formula. It still held true to the values that the autistic fanbase admired. The fact that it was a Mario game that took itself super seriously.
The one thing that an autistic fanbase wants is to be taken seriously.
>>341602291
The game seems to be improving on Sticker Star. The paint mechanics looks fun, and I liked some of the set pieces. The visuals are striking as well, and the game seems to have a pretty good sense of humor, going by what I've seen.
>>341601894
>all change is automatically good
Not really. Super Paper Mario was significantly different and that's grown to be a well-regarded title... Sticker Star's changes not only remove any kind of charm, and any incentive to play the game since there's no penalty for skipping non-boss battles.
To make matters worse, Color Splash looks like it's lacking ANY kind of significant changes to it's flawed gameplay and story, so your argument is moot there anyway. This is one case where we'd WANT change.
>>341603290
Well regarded title by whom exactly? The level design was utter garbage that made you walk walk walk with some very weak platforming and the story was melodramatic shlock.
>>341603241
More proof that most of SS's critics never played it.
Also, if Miyamoto was so intent on ridding the Mario RPG series of all creativity... why is Mario & Luigi still a thing? Dream Team came out in 2013, a year after Sticker Star, and had lots of great new mechanics, a traditional battle system, and a new story and characters.
However, Paper Mario fans don't like M & L because it does not and never has taken itself seriously.
Looks good to me, actually got me a bit hyped
>>341603290
Anon you don't understand. He prefers neutered gameplay and hand holding. Plus he can skip all the tedious battles that are no longer fun to engage in or rewarding in any way whatsoever. But hey, it looks nicer than the last one, so that excuses any points made against it. That certainly isn't an expectation put on any sequel ever made or anything.
So it's still Sticker Star 2
No levels, no partners.
There's no point in battle except to get cards.
>>341603484
Not they guy you're talking to or about but I actually prefer M & L to paper Mario and still wish they'd have kept the formula the same. They were both fun, quality RPGs with a lot of personality. Now only one of them is.And no, it's not Paper Mario.
>>341596917
>Lady bow, goombella and vivian
Reminder to disregard opinions feom autistic, virgin waifufags who sexualize cute cartoon drawings.
>>341603282
>The fact that it was a Mario game that took itself super seriously.
> having an actual story means a game is taking itself too seriously
>>341596124
It's more of that goddamn Miyamoto's blatant hypocrisy where his pet series Pikmin can get away with a story and DEEPEST LORE but Mario has to be some asinine simple quest.
>>341603535
>Sticker Star
>Hand Holding
Are you serious? Sticker Star is easily the most difficult Paper Mario game out there, and probably one of the more difficult Nintendo games in recent memory to get through. If anything, a handholdy feature would have been welcome. It certainly would have prevented the faggots crying about the game into getting past the first world.
>>341603693
This is a myth.
>>341603484
I played SS, M&L too, at least the first 4, but only SSS and BiS are actually good, and BiS isn't the big thing tho. But anyway, they could easily have M&L as a Mario Rpg (M&L) on handhelds and have a Mario Rpg (PM) on home consoles.
>>341598329
Thanks for this. Oddly enough I enjoy the M&L series, but never got into the Paper subgames.
>easily the most difficult Paper Mario game out there
Yeah, only if you dont use the correct sticker, what means a backtrack to find the correct one, but oh shit, better be the correct this time!
>>341604002
>>341604236
It was for You ;) ;)
>>341603431
Is platforming really necessary for an RPG though? Mario RPG, the first 3 Paper Marios and the Mario & Luigi games have done fine keeping platforming a secondary or even tertiary form of gameplay to focus on other aspects.
The story for SS is hardly better, while it lacks melodrama it lacks much of anything... is that really much better?
>>341604002
Responding to both your points, the system in place for Sticker Star allows you to escape pretty much any non-boss battle with no penalty, since stickers are generally plentiful around the world map and the Object Stickers can also be found in a similar way, which are usually the key to making bosses mincemeat and exposing weaknesses anyway.
What's difficult about that?
>>341604002
>trial and error
>difficulty
>>341603793
>he doesn't want to fuck lady bow, goombella, and vivian
>>341604002
>can only address one point
>still acts smug
And yes, giving you a free win sticker against most of the bosses is what I would consider hand holding.
>some of the last bosses don't have instant win stickers!
Oh good, there are a couple bosses who aren't piss easy that you have to trudge through the whole fucking game to get to.
>it's worth it!
No it's not, I don't know why you got this epiphany after beating this game that it was amazing but it simply isn't. Quit lurking these threads just so that you can vomit your shit opinions repeatedly to make yourself feel better.
I dislike Color Splash for being similar to Sticker Star, I loved 64, I played 64 more times than someone should. I think TTYD looks great though I personally never got the chance to play it. And Super Paper Mario was still good in it's own way. Sticker Star on the other hand, felt boring, nobody except NPCs, Kamek, and Kersti spoke, so there was little context, it was essentially Paper Mario x NSMB. Here's the thing with Color Splash though, I hate that it's going to do Sticker Star stuff again. But, if it improves on what I thought was bad about Sticker Star, I can give it a chance, I'm not that asshurt about it, although I'm going to dread that the paint can travel companion is another bratty snob like Kersti was. The main problems I had with Sticker Star was:
>Sticker collecting was boring and tedious at times
>Object collecting for boss battles should not be a thing,
>Battles are obsolete (Still are from what I saw)
>The story is non-existent, it just wants to be NSMB but Paper Mario.
>There's limited space for attack commands.
>Bowser never speaks ever.
>FUCKING BOWSER FLIP-FLOPS I SWEAR TO CHRIST.
>There isn't anything that makes strategy more interesting in battles.
>Nit-Picking: There's no fun SFX badges to wear
I don't mind the heart pieces, it encourages exploration, as long as it isn't bullshit to find, but not too easy, that you might as well just have a level up system. I'll give it a chance if I hear it improved upon Sticker star, but if not I'll pass, I did not enjoy Sticker star, and I would like to not make the same mistake again.
>>341604367
>the first 3 Paper Marios and the Mario & Luigi games have done fine keeping platforming a secondary or even tertiary form of gameplay
SPM and SSS had plenty of platforming.
>>341600000
To play devil's advocate, color splash does seem marginally less awful.
It's still sticker star 2 bullshit but it's better.
It's just still not worth buying, maybe when they come out with 5 more marginally less awful renditions.
>>341600000
Impressive
>>341604821
Both of those games had fairly straightfoward layouts with their platforming, and the former emphasized combat platforming and the latter used puzzles more.
>>341601723
>>341604002
>Sticker Star is easily the most difficult Paper Mario game out there, and probably one of the more difficult Nintendo games in recent memory to get through
Is this pure shitposting or are the boss fights actually hard if you don't use the "Please use this win the battle button we've given you"
>>341605404
purposefully gimping yourself for a challenge doesn't mean the game is hard.
>>341605404
If you consider overly long and tedious as hard then yes.
>>341596124
Imagine someone made a sequel to your favorite game and removed its core mechanics. Not replaced, but removed.
Literally (literally) the only good thing about sticker star was that it had good boss music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_apmasgsk
>>341605729
Just like Mario Party.
Have we seen any game footage of the new one outside of toad mode? I don't have any hope for it but I wanted to check.
>>341600000
kinda wasted possibly
>>341605742
Even that seems sub-par compared to the previous games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-lmaPnnD4g&
>>341607924
It's probably just because I like that style of music but I like sticker star's thing over rawk's theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnS8kXfj9jE
I think Cortez' theme is closer to the sticker star thing.
I doubt anyone who actually played TTYD is excusing this game or Sticker Star.
Anyone who says they have are just lying to try and make their shitty opinion sound more valid.
The only people defending this are kids who haven't played PM or TTYD.
>>341608295
Can someone explain why TTYD is supposed to be so good?
>>341608690
IS put some fucking effort into it.
too many consecutive games where they strip the rpg elements out of the games.
add in 'puzzles' that takeaway from the focus of battles.
>>341608690
World building, there's a huge world to explore adding places to the Mario world that might not be expressed the same way in a platformer (wrestling stadium, train)
Dialogue, funny, charming and memorable. Not afraid to insult characters and such by calling them idiots unlike the newer kid friendly games.
Characters and their characterization; development, writing, style. The game manages to make generic iconic Mario characters and mooks into actual individual characters and change up their normal designs, unlike Sticker Star which jacks off to the NSMB models. Also a plethora of original characters and races which add to the world building aspect.
Expansive open world acts as its own hub and is easy to learn (i.e. not limited to levels), cohesive story with chapters brilliantly spoofing many genres not only of games but of tv/film.
Great battle system which does not rely on RNG meaning you can be more tactful in your choices.
This stuff is outright ripped out of or dulled down for SS and CS.
>>341608690
The gameplay's actually good.
The story and characters are great too, but that's just a bonus. I would still have liked sticker star if it had decent mechanics with just a shit story.
At least Other M had sort-of ok gameplay to go with its garbage story.
Watch the Gamexplain interview with the developer.
Try not to be disgusted or angry at it.
>>341609492
Is it wrong that I'm more mad at the defenders trying to silence people with complaints? Children are so fucking annoying.
>>341609492
I can't be angry at it, dev lady is too cute
>>341601894
>>341603290
In my personal opinion, the Paper Mario series has always been an RPG series.
One of the most charming ways that battles were handled, ESPECIALLY in TTYD, was how the fighting stages would look like actual stages, with an actual audience (who were an actual element to the combat) being present in TTYD. It was well executed, and outrageously fun. I have not to this day, ever been able to figure out why they walked away from this design.
>>341609805
She has probably been fucked in the ass
You dont want her
>>341608690
No one will without resorting to 'muh worldbuilding.'
>>341609231
Case in point.
TTYD was alright, and one of my favorite games around the time it came out, but it really is time to move on. Mario and Luigi does what Paper Mario does, but better, especially when it comes to the actual gameplay.
I just realized how bad SS must have been.
>Never heard of it until now!
>>341610629
> I can add muh in front of a world. Surely this will make the whole argiment invalid.
>>341609492
Got a link m8?
>>341610892
Specifically, it goes into depth as to why the original mechanics aren't returning.
Simply put, there is no reason to do so. Nintendo knows that M & L was a much higher quality series and that it made more sense to expand on that and transition Paper Mario into something completely different, fresh, and new.
>>341611167
>made more sense to expand on that and transition Paper Mario into something completely different,
Couldn't they at least transition it onto something good?
>>341603048
>Implying he's not right.
>>341611441
Sticker Star is good, anon.
There's a reason all of the bitching you saw on the twitch chat and on here revolved entirely around how different it was than TTYD. There's no real substance to the complaints, and I think people are starting to wake up to this fact.
You say the game has no personality, yet we've seen the opening sequence and how atmospheric it is, in it's own unique way. You say the combat is terrible, but fail to understand that SS's combat was never broken to begin with. You say the areas have no creativity, but refuse to acknowledge that you actually do things in them and not just run from point A to Point B.
Color Splash and SS are good games despite being different, and I'm happy to see that a lot of people are warming up to it.
It's such a fucking shame, this game looks undeniably great visual-wise, I don't think anyone can disagree on that, but
>that battle system
>that localization
>that bland set of bosses and npcs
What even happened?
>>341611872
The combat wasn't broken, but there was no reason to ever do it, since random battles gave no reward and cost resources. It should really tell you something about the thought put into the game design when one actually fighting in an RPG is a bad thing.
>>341610780
Ok. In TTYD, our hub world is at a place called Rogueport, a town built by poor generations of people on top of some important place where a huge fight went down, but whatever... the town also has a huge sewer system like a labyrinth.
The first chapter involved a small village, multiple castles, and a very hungry dragon.
The 3rd chapter took place in a man-made floating town that featured a tourist attracting fighting arena. The McGuffin of the chapter was found atop the champions belt and obviously, you would have to climb the ranks and earn that belt yourself.But whew, mysteries, poisonings, and secrets abound, as well as one 'spunky' little Yoshi.
I would have mentioned the 2nd chapter... and visually, it looks amazing and surreal, but I suppose that was mostly the thing with that one...
The 4th chapter, took place in an unsettling town, an eerie forest, and a 'Creepy Steeple'.
>>341611872
>Sticker Star is good, anon
:))))
New rule: You have to have ACTUALLY played (for an extensive amount of time) PM and TTYD to post arguments against haters of Sticker Star and Color Splash
>>341612772
I don't think you are quoting the right person Anon
>>341611872
You should listen to >>341612528
What's the point of a battle in an RPG game... if it doesn't give you anything?
>>341613042
Just.
>>341613198
My bad then. I misinterpreted it as "ooh, you gave no argument, but adding 'muh' sure made me right anyhow."
Hello I am the best (B E S T) Paper Mario chapter in the entire series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN6eitV7lQc
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/06/16/nintendo-might-remaster-paper-mario-the-thousand-year-door-if-fans-are-vocal/'
THEN LET'S TAKE IT BACK
>>341613042
People who like Sticker Star will have played PM64, TTYD and Super Paper Mario. It's only shitters who only like TTYD who haven't played the other ones, Gamecube babbys.
>>341596917
>deep stories involving original villains
lol
>>341613832
I dunno m8, Mother 3 fans are plenty vocal and not only is Mother 3 not released in English but Lucas got removed from Smash 4 until he became dlc,
>>341614075
mother isn't that popular
>>341610629
Why exactly is worldbuilding bad?
>>341613840
Then why do they like SS if they know what a good game looks like?
>>341613840
Oh my god, that image... best thing I've seen all day!
>>341614268
Because he wrote muh in front of it.
>>341614289
They don't. Those people don't exist. They just say they've played PM, TTYD and SPM to try and make their actual inexperience sound better
>>341611872
Why are you acting like we can't have story, characters and regular RPG progression and the style of new Paper Mario at the same time? Is there something that's forcing all the characters to be Toads, and there to not be partners in the game?
I do like the gimmicks they are showing off, but why can't we have both?
>6:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlcNubU6bYA
>>341613997
>i haven't played super paper mario: the post
>implying Mario RPGs have deep, engaging plots
You guys are all insane and are just as out of touch with reality as Nintendo themselves are. Let me guess. You think Spm had a revolutionary plo and that Bobbery was a deep character. Oh man, Count Bleck and Tippi dying was so touching. Muh love story Tec's death was sad too, right?
Mario RPGs are all casual RPGs for children with extremely simple plots and really simple mechanics. The games were mediocre back when Bowser talked and you had an ojou Sama Boo an they are mediocre now.
I have never seen this much crying over a series that was never phenomenal to begin with. Hiroshi Yamauchi was right.
Why are people still feeding this guy (You)s
>>341614596
>>341614948
>I love going on internet message boards and praising games I've never played!
>>341614856
Rather than removing the element that was not up to level, why not improve it?
>>341614856
I'm guessing you've never actually played TTYD then huh? The plot doesn't always have to transcend across the whole length of the game's entirety. Sometimes, each chapter can have plot of it's own.
>>341615229
retard
>>341614848
The fuck was deep about Count Bleck? Dude is about as deep as the main villain of the new Kirby game. He tried to destroy the multiverse because he was sad? That's...deep?
Spm had a shit story anyway. There's a reason Ttyd is considered to be the best game in the series.
>>341614856
>Posting Ganon
I bet you think Zelda has some deep story huh?
>>341615409
Do you want to actually make a counter point or give up and resort to mindless insults?
>>341614161
at least they released earthbound and "earthbound beginnings" now. It gives me hope that Mother 3 is a possibility, they certainly are aware that people like it I think.
>>341615502
provide a point to counter first
>>341601894
>i love eating poo and everyone else should
>>341601894
t.Kensuke Tanabe
>>341615697
My point is you're complaining that people are criticising about games they haven't played, but giving a free pass to everyone praising the game they haven't played. It's not right.
>>341615502
That wasn't me. I'd counter your point if you actually had one.
>>341615697
Alright, the game looks similar to earlier one that people disliked. Why should we assume it's radically different from that, other than "we might be surprised"?
I might be surprised by lots of things, but chance is that most of the time I'm not.
>>341615498
Well... hold on there too... I'd throw Skyward Sword out as an example that it does. But that's a different discussion.
What we're discussing, is how PM and TTYD is awesome, SS and CS were terrible and had terrible planning put behind them, and the why's to these things.
>>341596124
Because butt hurt fanboys are mad i prefer this its like an RPG point and click puzzle type game mixed if its like SS
>>341615972
Sticker Star does a number of things better than PM64 and TTYD. You lot put those games so high up on a pedestal but they're not a good as you think they are.
>>341616058
Surely the fanboys are the ones blindly taking in this shit regardless of quality and what it objectively COULD be
>>341616148
>Sticker Star does a number of things better than PM64 and TTYD
Give some examples.
>>341614812
All I heard was "well yea, a lot of people 'liked' the RPG elements in those first 2 games... but we don't really care since we don't want those things."
>>341615404
I played Ttyd. Pit fighter Mario was the best chapter.
The individual chapters can be interesting and that would be enough for me. But Spm and Ss didn't have interesting mid game segments at all so I just moved on.
>>341612063
Miyamoto said no more npcs who aren't plain toad because it's not in line with his awful mario canon
>>341616148
Examples.
I can play PM, TTYD and SPM over and over and enjoy it thoroughly every time.
I never finished SS in the first place. I got extremely bored of it and was thoroughly not satisfied with just about everything, especially the gameplay, except the graphics.
>>341596124
You must be 18+ years of age to vite here
>>341616397
This. Sticker Star apologists pls go.
>>341597104
>*facepalm*
You know you can upload images on this imageboard, right?
Paper Mario is dead.
If this game flops, Nintendo will take it as Paper Mario is no longer popular and stop making them.
If it sells well, we'll just keep getting Sticker Star.
There is no winning, Paper Mario is dead.
>>341616239
>Pit fighter Mario was the best chapter.
That's a strange way to spell train ride
>>341616148
I'd love to hear what it does better myself. Please, formulate your argument correctly.
Meanwhile, while you type that up, I'll be delivering Sleepy Sheep from Rogueport to Petalburg for a 2 coin profit !!
>>341616239
That was honestly one of the best chapters in my opinion as well.
>>341616835
It's best for the series to just let it be kill
>>341599895
>M&L fans are Twitter cancer
This is why PMfags have suvh a bad reputation. You make it really hard to sympathize you when you take all your grief out on others.
>>341616205
>>341616387
>Pacing: no long between chapters segments, the cutscenes are brief and don't mess up the flow of the game.
>Challenge: The bosses actually put up a fight for once, a playthrough I did where I didn't use any of the bosses weaknesses(except the Hook) was fund since it requires a good understanding of the game mechanics. In previous games 90% of the bosses were complete push overs. In TTYD it wasn't uncommon to have more HP between Mario and his Partner than the Boss had.
>Level Design: The levels actually require proper exploration and the puzzles altough not difficult are more challenging and require more thought. The previous games were a bit too "Simon Says" since every "puzzle" repeated alotand the same solution with the same kind of partner(pic related puzzles happen even towards the end of the game).
>Backtracking: By having a world map you can travel between areas really quickly and get from one side of the whole game to the other really quickly, backtracking was always a complaint in the old games because you had to go through so many screens.
>Gameplay: The non-linear design was pretty good and it felt was a good evolution of the adventure genre(e.g. Kings Quest). I also think the sticker based gameplay while flawed is a diamond in the rough, if refined right it could be better than PM64's and TTYDs.
If they're going to fuck with the series I don't understand why they can't make it FUN while they do so.
Super Paper Mario was FUN regardless of how stupid and unnecessary the platformer-RPG schtick was.
Nowadays every RPG they make is a boring chore and I can't help but wonder where everything went wrong.
To people saying that Paper Mario games didn't have amazing stories, yeah. They weren't ground-breaking or anything.
But does that matter? Isn't it enough for story to be interesting and amusing? Not everything has to break new ground, sometimes it's fine to have basic things executed well.
Sticker Star not managing that is horrible.
>>341616239
>>341616841
>>341616898
All right, while we're all trouncing SS... a quick synopsis on why your favorite chapters were your favorite.
>>341614596
Someone needs to update this drawing and have the guy have already shat like two or three times, and ask the same retarded question
>>341599471
We don't have TWO Mario racing franchises, do we?
We don't have TWO Mario partying franchises do we?
We don't have TWO Mario golfing franchises do we?
>>341617353
The train ride chapter is my favorite mainly because it has the most unique setting, both the train station and the town you find the star in look amazing. It's also a nieeded break from all the fighting.
>>341617007
>Pacing
I'll agree with you there. PM64's Peach segments were atrocious but the dialogue in the TTYD Bowser ones made up for the massive break in pace.
>Challenge
SS self-inflicted boss challenges boil down to "don't use The Sticker You're Supposed To Use"
PM64/TTYD's self-inflicted boss challenges are way more diverse, ranging from using unorthodox party members, unorthodox badge arrangements, and even extending as far as Danger Mario.
>>341617915
>We don't have TWO Mario partying franchises do we?
Hudson and post-Hudson Mario Parties may as well be different franchises.
>>341617915
We do have two mario platforming franchises. Say goodbye to 3d mario.
>>341617007
>pacing
everyone loved the inbetween chapter segments and both of the first two paper mario's had cutscenes that were long enough to give the characters some flavor and proceed with the story while in SS/CS, what exactly is there for cutscene potential when all the characters are fucking toads and the story is minimal
>challenge
the older games were moderately average in difficulty but allowed to to both make it harder or break the game with badges. in the new games, basically comes down to amassing a bunch of op stickers to spam
>level design
i'll give you this one, the new games have pretty cool areas but this doesnt mean the older games are boring to explore
>backtracking
i'll never understand this, backtracking wasn't ever a huge problem for paper mario since most areas arent that big. hell, its probably a bigger problem in the new games when you run out of op stickers
>gameplay
the new gameplay is stale and offers up very few options compared to the older ones, nuff said
>>341618552
>Super Mario 3D World
>"we want to merge 3D and 2D Mario together"
We honestly have said goodbye to 3D Mario. Nice strawman though.
>bitter paperfags are already starting to shit on M&Lbros thanks to that interview
I knew it was going to happen, but I wasn't prepared.
>>341617915
Except Paper Mario and M&L have completely different graphical styles, tones, characters, stat mechanics, and developers, and one series was on console while one was portable.
And M&L is shit now too.
>>341598329
you realize this is ALL THE FAULT of normies that bought Sticker Star because of Mario and the casualized nature of the game made it easy for people to digest.
Also that Jap poll that said that fans didn't like Super Paper Mario's story
>>341614075
The difference is the devs of mother 3 never said they would remaster it if people wanted it
>>341601894
>I'm a huge fan of Sticker Star and am very impressed with what I've seen from Color Splash.
>>341618857
>didn't like Super Paper Mario's story
Japs have good taste. Spm's story was easily the worst of the first three games.
>>341617319
Exactly! Let's look at it this way. The original PM was unique, and in my opinion, was the frontier settler for 2.5D video games. It stands up to the tests of time for not relying on cutting edge visuals, its charming characters with personality, its RPG elements, and fun game play. Story-wise (in terms of chapter stories), it was a little lacking and improvements could be made I suppose. The most memorable one was the one with the Boo eating tub of lard who keeps his heart locked away in a windmill.
TTYD looked upon all of the good elements found in our first game, and kept them. It looked upon the flaws or missed opportunities like individual chapter stories that played off on genres from TV or games.
And in some places, like combat in particular, they still had some leniency to shift a few elements by adding some new ones (such as the BA audience).
The game then went another step further to tie in the story and gameplay (and expand on the personalities of our bosses) just a little by often having chapter bosses screwing around withor eatour audience, thus cementing them as a thing that just happened!
Basically, TTYD is the result when developers take a good concept that worked well already, and then improved on it in outstanding ways!
>>341617007
>Level-Design
While this may seem like a good thing, they somehow managed to make SS's levels way more of a chore than the early ones. Nintendo's puzzle design in general has really gotten stale over the years.
>Backtracking
Yeah it sucks but I don't think it justifies sectioning off levels completely. Muh immersion and all that. Have a cohesive overworld with map selection is a better idea.
>Gameplay
If refined it could be better (perhaps include more elements from the original PM games) yes I agree.
>>341615448
>Dude is about as deep as the main villain of the new Kirby game. He tried to destroy the multiverse because he was sad? That's...deep?
Thank god, someone else who isn't a retard. Fuck SPM in terms of story, gameplay, aesthetics, music, and everything else. What a fucking disgrace.
>>341618857
Sticker Star is a harder game than the previous Paper Mario games though and the original one was made with the idea of being someone's first entrypoint into the genre.
>>341619045
>ROU DON'T RIKE STAARY? THEN REE TAKE STARRY OUT! TOADS ONRY! NO ORIGINAL CHARACTER!
be careful what you wish for
>>341617353
I always liked the heavy focus on all of the combat in the fight arena, and Rawk Hawk certainly made for an interesting character, especially starting out as a heel, and resolving into a face in the end.
>>341614718
Why are you acting as if Paper Mario needs those things? Paper Mario is going for a new motif, and people just won't give it a chance.
SPM gave us these literal blocks stacked on top of each other and called them 'original.' I think we needed to go back to the basics.
>>341619474
>Sticker Star is a harder game
I love this meme. Explicitly NOT using the stickers game tells you to use and and gives you for free is not a measure of difficulty.
>>341619620
>Paper Mario is going for a new motif, and people just won't give it a chance.
>won't give it a chance
we gave it a chance with Sticker Star and it was rightfully shat on. Why the fuck do you think people should give a sequel that is mainly doing all the same thing with slight change going to change people minds about?
>>341619620
>Why are you acting as if Paper Mario needs those things?
Because these things made the first two games great.
>Paper Mario is going for a new motif, and people just won't give it a chance.
Because every time they fucked with the formula they made shitty games.
>SPM gave us these literal blocks stacked on top of each other and called them 'original.' I think we needed to go back to the basics.
Basics being the original PM games? Yes I agree.
I don't mind Paper Mario Battle Network to be quite honest.
I think there's just a raving fanboyism among the children.
Did anyone actually watch the Treehouse segment for Color Splash?
The game still has its problems, but I really liked the part wherethe toads are scamming Mario with a typical memory game and he has to "mark" the one who has the key with the paint hammer in order to be able to call them out on their fraud when he "loses" again.
If the game has more stuff like that, I think I'll be able to like it on its own merits. It's a puzzle that takes a spin on a generic video game trope, and it's not like the game tells you or hints that you have to mark the toad either. The treehouse guy playing just knew how to do it already.
>>341619620
You might have had a point about giving it a chance before SS came out. Now we already know it's shit.
Besides, you don't bastardize an existing series in order to introduce an entirely new "motif." If you want to try something totally new, you make a new series. Continuing to call it Paper Mario is nothing but a marketing tactic.
>>/341596124
paperfags are annoying
>>341619708
>Thinking I'm talking about the battles
The puzzles and exploration are more rigorous as opposed to brain dead easy like PM64, TTYD and SPM.
The combat in all entries is pretty easy(except sticker star without the bosses weaknesses). But Sticker Star has very clever and subtle enviromental puzzles. I could imagine people coddled by the previous Paper Mario games needing a walkthrough as early as World 2 of Sticker Star.
>>341620170
either that or a spinoff series, I guess.
>>341620091
Personally, I see no reason why the puzzle/paper elements they're trying to go for can't just be another part of a mario rpg. I mean, couldn't different partners even lead to more clever puzzles?
>>341601894
>I'm a huge fan of Sticker Star and am very impressed with what I've seen from Color Splash.
This video is fairly short, please sit through it if you want to know the problems with the game summed up in a perfect way.
>Stick Star Apologists please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
>Stick Star Apologists please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
>Stick Star Apologists please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
>Stick Star Apologists please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
>Stick Star Apologists please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
Pic of my broken pug for attention.
>>341596124
>at the very least somewhat mediocre.
It looks like shit, and even if it did look "at the least mediocre" who the fuck would be happy about that?
>>341603282
>Calls fans of the original games autistic
>Is a SS fan
Please just kill yourself. Summer fags are strong in this thread
>>341618816
>M&L is shit now too
You almost had me anon
>>341620756
Why does this guy use a muppet? I mean I have nothing against him for doing that, just wondering.
>>341620091
Yes, one of the reasons I loved SS so much is that it was filled with subversive things like that in a way that was involving to the player. Color Splash seems to improve on that.
>>341617007
>Pacing
In PM, the intermissions could have gone without, but in TTYD, it definitely felt like it was a ton better.
>Challenge
>>341618083 is right about that. There were numerous options available that allowed you to provide yourself a challenge, whereas from what it seems in SS, it boils down to "don't use the obvious thing".
Though that never stopped the Pit-of-100-Floors from being an endurance run of difficulty on it's own.
>Level Design
The 'puzzles' that I can think of, were mostly found in PM. In TTYD, they're more akin to platforming.
>Backtracking
As a guy who really did take Sleepy Sheep between in-world shops for profit, I should know a lot about backtracking... It can be pretty bad in a few places, not gonna lie there. There were at least a couple of warp pipes to tremendously shorten your trips between the more extensive journeys, but I don't remember the entrances to said pipes being anywhere immediately accessible. I think that issue boils down to level design though, since most of said pipes were locked behind equipment-strength walls.
>Gameplay
This is where a great deal of arguments are going to stem from, this much is certain, but as for me, there really isn't much for me to say about this, considering that our corresponding games had different gameplay. Still, Paper Mario started out as an RPG series, so a lot of people were holding out for that.
>>341621354
Something unique I guess.
>>341621148
Maybe it hasn't lost its core gameplay, but it's just as sterile and homogenized as every other Mario series now.
>>341621657
Makes me kind of worry if that would happen to PM if it actually stuck with the RPG elements. Although it would still be a lot better than Sticker Star or Colour Splash.
>>341621354
There's nothing about it on his channel, so your guess is as good as mine.
>>341620756
>Fucking Arlo
This is the same guy who thought Star Fox Zero was garbage because it didn't have a story.
Actually, he's the reason I realized that the people who hate SS are just autists who hate the fact that Nintendo doesn't focus on having DEEPEST LORE for each of their franchises.
>>341596124
Something no-one seems to realize is that those who worked on the Original Paper Mario and TTYD haven't worked on Paper Mario since 2004. Most of the folks who worked on SS were new.
>>341621974
Zero was shit for a lot of reasons. The story was just one of them.
>>341621354
>>341621590
>>341621939
>>341621974
I hate him. He stole the "meme muppet eceleb" idea from me and now he's slowly rising in popularity because it makes him stand out compared to others. Now if I do it I'm just gong to be called out as a copycat
reeeeeeeee
>>341622127
Fuck off, Francis.
>>341622254
Were you even going to use that idea at some point?
>>341622127
>Miyamoto encourages Star Fox to have a story
>Zero was barebones as fuck though
>The plot twist isn't even a real plot twist
>>341621974
Nice projecting. While having some semblance of world building is what made the original two PM games great, I'm pretty sure anyone who wants DEEPEST LORE is meme-ing for a good time.
Ok, so it seems like we've started to exhaust through our discussion now.
So, if you were going to design the next Paper Mario game... how would you do it? And bear in mind, you must be absolutely careful, or else what >>341621657 said might happen.
>>341622682
Deepest Lore actually came about to mock these sorts of people who obsess over world building in that fashion.
>>341623337
Mocking Mario fans or just Nintendo fans in general? Because I can't see anyone seriously care about Mario lore while about half of the Earth's population has made at least one 50 page thesis about the Zelda timeline.
>>341601894
>>341603282
>>341603484
>>341604002
>>341608690
>>341610629
>>341611872
>>341612772
>>341614856
>>341617007
>>341617915
Fuck you.
Just, fuck you.
>>341623676
People in general who read insane shit into simple things and give them infinitely more thought than the creator ever could have.
>>341624338
>You're only allowed to like the old games
the battle system looks fun and there's even color experience now as an incentive to battle, but it does seem to lack depth.
Gonna pick it up when it eventually becomes like 20 bucks on ebay. Looks alright to play through once, nothing more though
>>341624697
>gamecube is considered retro
You are missing the obvious point
>>341624338
I don't know who the hell you think you are, but >>341612772 is not any of those people.
You misinterpreted my whole message as some negative spin on the world-building of TTYD!
>>341624974
I never used the word Retro.
Also there have been several times where Paper Mario fans jump down the throats of anyone who enjoyed Super or SS more than the first two RPGs.
Hence I restate:
>You're only allowed to like the old games
>>341625285
Sorry, I was in a rush
>>341612772
please ignore>>341624338
>>341622254
t-tosspot?
>>341625294
Not him but you're just one person obsessed with defending this game every time there's a thread expressing frustration over it.
Nobody welcomes your presence, you won't convince anyone, just give up
>>341625583
>implying i'm the same guy from that reply stack
Nice try bucko. I personally like Super more than the rest of the PM games and I was speaking from experience.
I just realized, we've been talking about all of the Paper Mario games, and even in a few cases, we've talked about M&L, but we've never even talked about Paper Jam.
How did M&L: Paper Jam stand up to things?
>>341596124
I kinda prefer the Mario & Luigi series as my to-go Mario rpg.
Color Splash didn't impress me like BotW but it didn't look that bad. I'll play it.
>>341625924
Paper Mario fans don't want to admit it, but Paper Jam was great. Lots of personality, great gameplay, great new mechanics. All without using any of the original Paper Mario characters.
>>341626160
The only downside was the obscene amount of Toad Hunts.
>>341626314
No, the Toad Hunts are great. Lots of interesting scenarios in those things.
>>341625924
As a M&L fan who's played every game in the franchise, it's especially fantastic.
I say this because of all the quality of life improvments like running, the way bonus challenges are handled, Battle Ring improvments and much more.
Top notch combat, best bosses of the series. Got some problems with toad hunting getting old, but it doesn't ruin the game or anything like that.
Can't wait for based Alphadream's next contribution
>>341626495
You have to admit that there were too many of them and they really broke the pace of the game.
>>341625924
https://imgur.com/a/gd670
This interview confirms that the settings, characters, and plot of Paper Jam was not due to "Miyamoto" but an internal decision, and that future M&L games will return to original characters and environments.
>>341626314
And Starlow
Long """""""Bros""""""" Attacks
No Hard Mode
Starlow
Shit Story
No enemy variety
Starlow
Slow as fuck combat
Boring Overworld
No Roulette wheel
Starlow
Popple didnt replace Nabbit
Starlow
ETC
>>341626608
You know what my favorite part of Paper Jam was?teaming up with Nabbit
>>341626759
I take it you didn't like Paper Jam then?
>>341626495
>>341626759
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you weren't a fan of Starlow?
>>341626160
>>341625924
The one thing I hated about Dream Team were the dream segments which I felt were tedious and chores to complete. Does PJ have anything similar?
>>341627035
Nothing like that, no.
>>341626848
He's a shitposter
>>341626813>mfw he performs a Bros. attack with you
>>341626160
>>341626160
Paper Jam was good but flawed. However, it isn't a Paper Mario game by ANY stretch of the imagination.
Things it gets right:
>Minimal backtracking
>Streamlines fetchquests
>Minimal and quick tutorials
>Bros. Move snagged all at once rather than arbitrarily hunting down puzzle pieces
>Bowser + Bowser Jr. + Peach interactions were great
>Bosses are some of the best in the series and reward strategy over brute force
>easily useable overworld dash (Miyamoto insisted on it, dev team is retarded and almost nixed it)
What it gets wrong:
>Bland world design
>Unmemorable music
>Fetchquests, though streamlined, still exist
>Progression requires these fetchquests, which are generally separated from the main game
>Humor is minimal to non-existent outside of Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Peach
>Starlow singlehandedly ruins several otherwise strong scenes that could have had real emotional weight
>Paper Craft battles are tacked on and not particularly fun
>Battle system is extremely slow - on average, it takes 20+ seconds for bro moves, and 30+ seconds for trio moves, compared to 3-5 seconds per move in SuperStar Saga, or even 8-11 seconds in BiS. (Even the Solo hammer attack takes twice as long in PJ as it used to)
>Outside of select bosses, overall level of challenge is drastically reduced - characters are expected to be ~ level 35 in the endgame, compared to the expected ~ level 45 in previous games
>Card system essentially makes the difficulty non-existent
It's better than Dream Team, but a little worse than BiS. I'd rank it squarely as the mid-tier M&L game.
Starlow provided nothing to the game. At least the bucket's handle clapping thing makes me laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwqhBZ67e7A
>>341614342
Fuck off underage.
>>341626848
It wasnt a bad game, but for me it was the worst in the series.
>>341627187
see pic
>>341626160
>>341626608
>>341626721
>>341626759
>>341627669 (especially this one)
All right. Noted then. Not exactly a must-buy, but certainly something to keep on a list.
>>341620091
>>341621478
Thousand Year Door had the same kind of shit in it.
Have I missed anything so far?
>>341622254
Just make videos with higher quality and no one will call you out for copying.
