I hear people bitch and moan all the time that vanilla WoW is SO much better than the new expansion-filled WoW. But I never actually hear any reasoning why. Is there any legitimate reason as to why vanilla WoW is better than what we have now?
First impressions are often the most lasting. That's pretty much it.
>>341519273
This and nostalgia goggles play a big role in it. The thing I liked about older WoW is that social interaction with random people was a bigger factor which was made things feel more lively and fun imo.
>>341520447
Socialization and cooperation was a bigger part of older games than it is these days. A lot of people would rather play by themselves than work with others.
How many people even socialize in online games these days?
>>341519032
Nothing, people just enjoy things that they used to hate instead of the things that they currently hate.
>>341519032
Literally the only thing that's even remotely arguable better is the social interaction (mostly because of the lack of any automated system for both PvE and PvP.) That's all.
Every other aspect is magnitudes better in current retail.
>>341520627
This is a big part of it. Dungeon/raid finder, Server transfers and name/race changes killed server community and the fun that came with it.
>>341522598
It's all a symptom of people requesting that shit. Convenience kills everything.
the sense of accomplishment behind each action. you really had to earn everything, whether it be your first mount or even reaching level 60. The end game required some serious dedication as well with all the attunement quests and how the gear treadmill worked.
One of my fondest memories from OG wow was getting my night elf character from kalimdor to the eastern kingdoms where the rest of my friends were. as a level 15 with no money to port or be summoned it took a solid few hours but felt so fucking good to accomplish.
>>341519032
>sense of community
instead of staying idle in warspear waiting for dungeon/raid/pvp finder you actually had to talk to people and form groups, travel to the dungeon together and have an adventure.
dungeonfinder and flying mounts destroyed this completely.
theres nothing to do anymore. there is no epic mount to farm anymore, overworld is empty cause of the things i stated above so world pvp is almost dead.
everyone is either flying or AFK in queue, which destroyed the atmosphere, remember riding through ashenvale at night, finding people to kill or exploring feralas? those places are now dead.
dont implement fast travel in RPG games. look what it did to Dark Souls 2
i have not talked to a player in weeks in WoW
>dungeons were way better and more fun
going in a dungeon is no adventure anymore cause you rush through them multiple times a day. theres no BRD anymore with multiple paths. almost every dungeon is hallway now. back then you had those too, but it wasnt as tiresome as today because you dont go to skyreach for the 10th time today
>cross-realming hurt the community, you dont really know any VIPs from your server anymore or any famous guilds. but i guess with the dropping subscriber numbers this is inevitable
>FUCKING TALENT TREES
instead of customizing your character most RPG elements are gone now, with you choosing one of three predetermined specs with a set skil rotation, which (for me) made raiding tiresome and boring when you are not fighting bosses
>>341519032
Here is the real reason. It was a different time on the internet.
Economy wasn't complete shit, people had more free time, it was the one big game around so, and the internet/gaming was still largely full of a bunch of nerds looking to hang out with other nerds.
The slower pace was nice in ways and the social aspect was better, but getting groups was a pain, pvp was so imba it was stupid, many spells were flat broken, some classes were broken, grinds were retarded obvious time filler content (so many reps and AQ fall in this), gear snobs, etc.
Its not that the game was better just a lot of the people were.
Some will blame matchmacking and random ques, but those were just meant to stitch back together people that didn't have the time anymore to play it like they use to.
I do really miss the more chess like pvp that faded out with Cata and I do miss guilds actually knowing each other and being full of people. Game is better in a thousand ways now. I really say its just the loss of people having the time to kick back and log in for the night anymore.
>>341524265
you've got okay points, but please stop the fucking
>flying mounts ruined everything
it's become an incredibly stale meme because i can fucking assure you that people would grow tired fast of having to travel by land everywhere
>>341524658
Indeed. Died more back then to afk auto running into shit than to anything else. Flights gave a sense a bigness, but by the time you were 60 your ass was tabbing out on it.
>>341524658
You're right but it's still true.
>>341524658
The anti-flying defense force was so huge that I believe Blizzard had to be logging into company accounts.
Back in the BC days, any endgame group activities in Nagrand absolutely demanded flying mounts, simply for how broken flightpaths were.
>>341519032
Honestly, people look through it with rose tinted goggles.
There was more social interaction back then because you had to actually seek out other players, form a group, and travel to the entrance. People forget how you had to grind for months, and how difficult some of the raid bosses were
>>341525092
i disagree that they caused so much damage, but you might like to know that blizzard has sort of learned their lesson and made it so that you couldn't fly for 60% of WoD; they're also going to be repeating the process in Legion
>>341524265
>dungeon finder destroyed the sense of community
No. I'm sick to death of retards like you saying this shit.
Dungeon finder was fine before it went cross realm. I don't want to sit in a capital city for an hour spamming trade chat to get a five man group together because it's a waste of time.
Nobody socialized in those PuGs, they were as silent as they are now and if you say otherwise you are blatantly lying.
>>341524658
This. Anon from >>341524265 post is right but this whole meme "Flying ruined everything" needs to fucking stop.
It was one of most awesome moments in my WoW carrer when I get my first flying mount and I could see Outlands from above.
Besides... Who the the fuck don't want to fly on a freaking dragon?
>>341524658
then fuck them. sorry. casualization is what made wow mad and if they make vanilla servers they should be hardcore, without dungeon finder or flying mounts.
theres no point in being able to fly everywhere. i know its easier and takes far less time but ( for me at least ) atmosphere and random player encounters is what made vanilla great and staring at a skybox doesnt give me that.
flying made sense in outland, i started hating blizzard a lot when you were able to fly in kalimdor etc.
>>341525297
Yep.
>>341525787
Then your server sucked Dranei balls.
>>341525787
then you were bad at making groups sorry. i seldom had to spend more than 30min to form a group, even though i was DPS.
i socialized a lot there too, dont know what your problem is/was. also just the feeling to ride with a 5 man group through easter plague lands to get to scholo and killing some gnome rats on the way there was worth the effort.
>>341525787
Dungeon finder was definitely a much needed addition for the sake of some basic convenience, but I wouldn't say PuGs were always silent. When there was actually some challenge to be had people did talk from time to time, and especially so when the content was actually fresh and not already played to death by everyone in the group just looking to get it over with as fast as possible.
>>341525880
>it was epic haha xD LMAO DRAGON
kill yourself, you shouldnt be able to remove yourself from the world
>>341525536
That has always been what they do with flying though. Usually gets nerfed near the end of the xpac or in the following one, but you have to usually be max level to get it or close to it. Which is a smart choice to make the zones immersive and big until you hit the point where its getting old to take so damn long.
Same thing for XP. Its hard to level early on but gets easier as the xpac progresses and people have more to do when they are done leveling.
>>341525347
Ya I don't miss that grind. Personally I think it would be better to have longer more story driven game segments like quests or multi-part dungeons so you don't have to do it in one sitting. But have the rewards for them be big.
I remember back then there was an awesome quest chain in Duskwood with a great story of murder and mystery. It even got a hidden cameo if you went out of your way in Hillsbrad dungeon in TBC. But nobody did it because long quests, travel, and group based shit took too god damn long.
I would make more stuff like it, make it worthwhile, and get rid of a lot of the go kill 10 wombats that never drop the final pelvis to turn in quests. That way grouping and long quests have value, still fill time, and the bullshit ones can fuck off.
>>341526289
>>341526293
also dungeon finder was okay, but the insta teleport to a hallway instance with insulting difficulty drained a lot of fun imho
I had a lv 60 and 2 lv 40s on Nostalrius.
Leveling and combat was much more difficult, being a good player and being knowledgeable about the game helped you a lot. Every item made a difference, even shitty low level consumables/gear people would craft or find. MP5 made combat interesting and made you have to think ahead.
It's a lot of things that aren't worth typing out. But to sum it up, it's the community and the fact that every profession and class contributed something unique and you had to work together just to even finish some quest (especially due to the high population of the server).
>>341519032
JonTron said it's because the new WoW feels like a Facebook game.
>>341526310
>kill yourself, you shouldnt be able to remove yourself from the world
What?
I swear to God /v/ is getting more pathetic than ever...
>>341526481
You cant have a random group without a braindead hallway. Cata had hallways that required 3 whole IQ points and it was too much
>>341526421
>That has always been what they do with flying though
are you certain?
i thought they always made it so that as soon as you reached level 90 you could purchase the flying for that exact continent, though i did start playing fairly late in cata and MoP so i might not be entirely on top of my game
>>341526849
>as soon as you reached level 90
as soon as you reached the level cap for that expansion, i mean; my bad
>>341524265
>i have not talked to a player in weeks in WoW
How the fuck is this a WoW problem? Why don't you talk in PuGs?
Why don't you start a conversation. I swear PuGs were just as silent back in TBC when I played. It hasn't changed except now your group won't fall apart because your damn tank left halfway through the dungeon and you couldn't find a replacement in trade chat.
I also distinctly remember waiting 30+ minutes finding people just to run low level dungeons. I played on a medium server so that may have been an issue.
>>341526624
The garrison/shipyard definitely are, the rest of the game not so much. But there's a little too much handholding going on and the game spells everything out for you, there's no incentive to explore or try to find things out for yourself. I don't object to a little casualization but that line has been overstepped quite a bit.
>>341519032
Having to find people manually and walk to the dungeons plays a big part in immersing yourself in the world. WoW is no more immersive than Hearthstone these days. If you can't get fascinated and lost in the massiveness of the world then there's no reason to play an MMO, every other gameplay aspect is done better in other genres.
>>341526624
Oh Jontron always almost saying something of value. Korean MMO would be closer its stolen a lot of ideas from those like easier entry, free trail-ish, and an endgame that isn't as worthwhile to do and is very hard to get into.
>>341526593
And I forgot to mention, the end game dungeons were pretty difficult. Stratholme for instance, you pretty much had to play your class to it's full effectiveness to even get through it with your shit gear. Almost every spell on your bar would get cast at some point (played as lv 60 hunter).
Hunter's needed to have an idea of what the tanks wanted to do, needed to FD trap the right targets, frost trap large packs, flare invis patrols , distract if a healer got aggro. It was pretty fun.
>>341526085
Yeah sure, and having to sit in Org for an hour spamming "LF1M RAMPS NEED TANK" is just so fun right?
>>341526289
>easter plague lands
>To get to scholo
Scholomance was in Western Plaguelands, retard.
>>341526481
>Hallway instance with insulting difficulty
That has absolutely jack shit to do with dungeon finder and the concept of it. That's a whole different issue.
>>341527180
>Having to find people manually plays a big part in immersing yourself in the world
No, it doesn't. Sitting on your ass spamming trade chat for a tank does absolutely nothing to immerse yourself in the world.
Walking to the dungeons though? I'll agree.
>>341526849
Yes. In TBC you had to get to 68 originally, but it was pretty much impossible to do until you were 70 anyway unless you were ea druid.
WotLK you need Cold Weather and had to be 78 or 80 if I recall originally. Same thing in Cata, etc.
And in TBC you had to farm the shit out of nearly every zone for quests to get 70 and now you can hit WotLK content before you leave Hellfire if you time it right. So XP and Flying always get slowly scaled back as the leveling makes up less of an xpacs content as more content comes out. Same for the levels you get ground mounts too.
I recently did a bunch of leveling and there are new players out there playing the game like the days of old. They don't have the gold for mounts and have no BoAs or mods or quests memorized. Found them in small pockets while I was messing around.
We jaded assholes just don't see it anymore because we have a lot of resources and zoom through on rocket skates now. But that is because doing some zones out of nostalgia is fun, doing the whole grind like normal gets pretty stale on your 40th go through.
>>341527420
Looking for tanks was annoying as fuck, especially when get pre raid bis. It helps if you join a guild or play with friends I guess
>>341527420
>Sitting on your ass spamming trade chat for a tank does absolutely nothing to immerse yourself in the world.
In my experience you are more prone to making friends this way though (either randoms or guildmates), which definitely enhances immersion.
>>341527420
So, what you're getting at is, dungeon finder is okay, but if it didn't immediately teleport you to the instance it'd still be fine? Cause if that's the case then I agree.
>>341525787
don't know why every time this is discussed some retard pops up who basically does nothing than make an idiot of himself by admitting he never figured out how to use /who to spam a couple people and have a group together literally within a minute or two.
>>341527912
And how is it not possible to make friends in a PuG from lfg?
>tank is good
>"woah hey tank mind if I continue queuing up with you?"
>sure
Was that fucking hard?
>>341525787
dungeon finder was always cross realm
just a friendly reminder that if you prefer neo-WoW over older WoW, you're literally retarded
>>341528167
>/who to spam a couple people
Because anyone who wants to run in a dungeon chilled in /4 lfg.
Spamming individual people is a lot slower than spamming global channel, retard.
>>341519032
Because difficulty used to be everywhere in the game but now it's reserved only for hardcore end-game. Back in Vanilla you would make choices all the time even in leveling - what rotation should I use to kill a mob as quickly as possible while minimizing health loss, how should I spread out my defensive CD's and stuns against a dangeous mob, what percentage should I start using my wand to conserve as much mana as possible, what spells should I skip over to save my limited amount of gold?
For some reason Blizzard have gotten the idea that casual players want to steamroll through content without difficulty and so now we have a MMO where leveling is a boring, easy grind. Leveling dungeons used to be a fun adventure with friends but now it's a 15 minute aoefest with strangers who never talk.
>>341528301
>post one retards opinion is a daily reminder
Stop posting this annoying shit, like the "you think you know, but you don't". Post stuff from blues not some retards opinion.
>>341519032
2 things for me
1 was the community, you really have to kinda "roleplay" or inmerse in a world to do anything, chat and LFG channel was fucking awesome, walking and gettin bodyguards to go to a dungeon, asking for directions, nowdays you get ported instant to everything, the world is dead, only 1 zone in fucking 3-4 planets is full with afk people
2, fun, the game was fun, had ingame events, had real life events, you could attack a city and destroy totally without 10 guards spawning ever second, but guess what, you didnt needed guards, because PEOPLE would come to help defend it, cool spells that got reworked for easier gameplay, less spells, they fucked up wow cant even finished this i hate blizzard
>>341528301
is that guy a troll?
he even added in
>muh 1 % !!!!
>>341528545
its not just 1 retard though, thats the average player on the forums
>>341528181
>nobody says a word the entire dungeon
>not even a silly remark how hard it was getting this group together haha
>tank is good though
>"woah hey tank mind if I continue queuing up with you?"
>he leaves group
>probably doesn't even play with chat turned on
nah
it's an MMO
every tool that automates player interaction gets in the way of organic experience: LFG, AH, everything
To me it sounds like a large majority of people here think that communication is gone.
It's like they expect the game to give them friends on a plate and an adventure for them instead of making it themselves.
>>341528407
yes, that's why every time someone mentions it it goes with "spamming lfg for 30 minutes" like its some argument for the lfg tool. I used /who spamming all the time before lfg tool, and I used it again on nost. I have literally never in my life waited for more than 5 minutes to have a group together.
>>341528650
>guy who can't handle social interactions at all
>plays a game built around social interactions
yeah, this is totally the average forum-goer
fuck right off cunt
>>341528793
>nobody says a word the entire dungeon
Well that's a problem. You didn't say anything. I've made friends in LFG and queued up with tanks multiple times.
>>341528516
Confirmed for not playing Vanilla WoW.
Every spec for every class was 2-3 buttons, and there was no thought or difficulty whatsoever in leveling (aside from Defias Pillagers/Rogues).
The only difference is that there were more group quests that you couldn't do solo at the recommended level, because the Elite tag actually meant something back then, and your gear was green and blue instead of Heirloom epics.
A large part of Vanilla being good was that many things were still unknown and the channels of communication viz websites like wowhead or thottbot were not as robust as they are today. You actually had to have friends who had run dungeons together and had experience on how to pull and how not to get wiped. Now you can watch a youtube video with indepth explanations on how to do every little thing, and all of the information is datamined from the PTS.
People are right to remember the game nostalgically as at its peak it was literally part of the cultural zeitgeist. Playing WoW meant something and people would know the general precepts of the game and how involved it could be. While it was largely nerds playing with other nerds, the population was so high that it had lots of normies playing as well (rrrreeeeeee), this created a unique community that excellent games like everquest, UO, or DAoC never had through lack of mass market penetration. Now the game largely caters to chinese gold farmers and people who have invested too much of their personal self worth into a game no longer worth playing.
It is as clear as day that the next step in the MMO world will be VRMMO's akin to SAO. There is no doubt in my mind that the first two or three VRMMO's will flop until another one returns and subsequently becomes part of that cultural zeitgeist. Once that game evolves, people will complain about the good old days and we will return to the cycle of eternal return
>>341529016
nice post now do it without the trip
>>341528949
ehh if the game's mechanics weren't so beaten to death and 99% of the concent simply irrelevant people would be forced to interact with each other
wow is just too old
>>341528545
assmad retail player detected
Only an autistic virgin lord with no fucking friends would put Vanilla over anything else.
>leveling takes 250+ hours
>wasting your 1 hr hearth to go back to the city to learn the spell while leveling
>questing obsolete aftery ou complete the area, making quests chain to different areas wasting even more time
>lfg takes 20 min+ and if someone dc's quits gg waste even more fucking time
>graveyard jogging get fucked if you were at elevation
>you leveled up a druid, ha healer forever fuccboi
>leveling and pulling 2 mobs o shit nigga better use your 30 min cd before u get fucked
>30min-1hr cd's
>raiding 2 pieces per boss for 40 people zozzle
>farming gold taking forever, more than half the population couldnt afford a mount at 40
>farming pvp, spend 10 hours in alterac valley for no honor
>getting honor gear, must commit 6 hours a day or you aint getting high warlord gear
>pvp all about gear, literally 2-shot
>doing bosses and waiting for that 30 min shield wall to come back to make sure we kill Maexnna this time during final phase LMAO
>burning crusade was the goat nearly fixing all the problems, anyone who says vanilla is better is a sperglord
>>341519032
haven't you tried warlords of draenor it sucks ass , starting from cataclysm was the downfall of wow , vanilla wow was so much better because you had to be part of the community in order to achieve something or do dungeons or raid , look at wow now , you don't even need to talk with someone to participe in raids or dung , the mmo element was washed out
>>341525347
>Honestly, people look through it with rose tinted goggles.
So how do you explain the popularity of private servers running vanilla?
>>341528906
yes it is
right now on the forums there are a bunch of people crying because TWO(2) whole dungeons cant be queued for in Legion. The average wow player is not looking for a multiplayer experience nor is he okay with having to talk to people
>>341529610
11k achievements pionts, that's his life
>>341529309
>not even being able to greentext properly
reddit...
>>341519032
better dungeons. forced people to work together on something actually hard. the game got gradually easier imo and lost its allure.
>>341527926
Yes. Because at least with summoning stones people actually had to get to the instance and find their way to the dungeon portal itself.
>>341528167
That's bullshit to do though. You have to wade through a bunch of people not responding or telling you to fuck off as well as annoying the fuck out of all the tanks or healers on the server.
Putting a system in place to bypass that is amazing.
Looking For Raid was fucking trash though.
>>341528301
>well what about people like me? people who struggle with mental illness and have a hard time socializing and communicating with people?
why are you playing a fucking mmo then?
it's a buzzword by now, but mmos need community. One of the ways you do this is by forcing players to need or rely on each other to do shit, even basic shit. Old SWG is a good example of this in action - that game had a ton of faults/bugs/issues but no one argues about the sense of "world" and "community" it had.
In WoW, the way you rely on others is by needing to be social in order to complete objectives. From the very basic "need x class/spec for this" to just being a non-douche so your life is easier. On paper it sounds like you're running the player through hoops, but out in the game it organically leads to a sense of "community".
Modern WoW doesn't have a lot of that. When you can queue for most activities in the game, everyone besides yourself becomes disposable. Sort of like temporary friends that you're using for 20 minutes. Of course you can choose to add someone and that does still happen - believe it or not people are still social in WoW. But by not being FORCED to and never being faced with accountability for your actions contributes greatly to the "blah" feeling.
There are a bunch of other core issues with modern WoW (and a lot of good things too) but lack of community is always going to be what most issues boil down to.
This has all been said before and I get the feeling, especially from the amount of people unironically enjoying crossrealm LFG and flying, that most posters in this thread are 20ish or it's all bait.
>>341530052
Becuase WoW has catered to these people since TBC/Wrath
its just better and people who like it better know it. the people who like wow now will not reasonably argue with your points so theres no point in even trying to argue why its better
>>341529309
so you're admitting you're just a casual babby?
if everyone's special, no one is, kid, heh
just accept your place in the world as Peenus Weenus lvl 32 Human Warrior and bow down to those with more time to waste in the game
>>341528301
I agree, but then again I just make a trial acct once a year or so, play through until 20 or 25, and then quit because WoW sucks my balls.
>>341519032
There was a community back then.
>>341529610
> average wow player is not looking for a multiplayer experience
Wrong, the majority of wow players enjoyed vanilla, tbc and wrath. They enjoyed the social interaction.
The forum is full of people who don't like video games, that's why they are trolling in the forum all day long, or they would be playing the game.
>>341530337
>retard completely ignored Maexnna text
spotted the casual baby
>>341529739
hey
I have over 11k achievement points without even trying. I don't even go for achievements. My account is very old so maybe that's part of it, but still. I haven't played since early WoD and only played part of MoP.
11k isn't a lot if you've had the same character since achievements were added (i think wrath pre patch but could be wrong).
Is WoW worth playing?
>>341528990
Every class was not "2-3 buttons"
>aside from Defias Pillagers/Rogues
As if those were some especially difficult mobs
>leveling in westfall
>>341530038
i think most even vanilla purists are ok with summoning stones. They were added in the tbc pre patch i believe. I could be wrong.
Summoning stone is a far cry from being instantly teleported to the dungeon.
>>341530581
Not anymore at the moment. The game is shit.
I would recommend you spend your time on other things... like working out and eating healthy.
>>341530743
>working out meme
throw in nofap too while you're at it
>>341529309
maybe its just me, but everything you posted is a good thing.
also no PVP was not about gear. i literally killed lvl 60 players as a lvl 55ish rogue because i could play this class amazing.well and won 80% of my duels even though i didnt even have my full T1 yet.
some classes benefitted more from gear i admit.
>>341530581
if you've never played it before then yeah
>>341530925
Enjoy your diabetes you fat lazy fag.
;)
>>341530697
not defending him, but most raid rotations boiled down to a few buttons. However all classes had a shit ton of other shit to be doing as well as most classes having a lot of utility.
What's interesting is how when everyone uses the "2-3 button" meme but people still struggle to maintain dps on 12 year old content on private servers. (not saying it's hard, but am saying that even with simple rotations and 12 years of practice there are a LOT of shitters).
>>341530925
how is working out a meme? keep making excuses to ruin your body. no one tells u to get a low bodyfatg % + shredded but being athletic has a lot of benifits
>>341528793
I leave cus i want you to remember me as an awesome tank
I might fuck up the next run and then im back to being a LFG degenerate
>>341528990
No, you are the one who clearly didn't play Vanilla WoW and are parroting what other people have said about it. You used defensive and utility abilities like interrupts, stuns, CC defensive cooldowns frequently while leveling in Vanilla.
>there was no thought or difficulty whatsoever in leveling (aside from Defias Pillagers/Rogues)
Go play on Kronos and try leveling a warrior.
I played vanilla once and it was awful
it was darker and had area pvp.
A game can either be:
>In depth, engaging, challenging, and rewarding
OR
>Convenient
WoW chose the latter.
>>341531275
That's because there's more to it than 2-3 buttons. There's always more you can be doing, even simple things like dotting multiple targets people don't do.
>>341531298
>being athletic has a lot of benefits
not for someone like me who sits on his ass all day
dumbass
>>341532132
welp this one won't last long in the race wars
>>341519032
I like wod but
>actual 40 man content
>Each Realm is it's own community
>Less convenience for the sake of world-building and RP (Soulstones, Reagents, arrows/bullets, paying to learn spells)
>turning basic things like getting gear and a mount into a journey of it's own rather then an inevitability
>No dungeon finder means if you're a dick prepare to consistently never get in groups again
>People weren't spread around seperate contents yet so everyone was either in EK or Kalimdor meaning loads of World PvP
Vanilla was so completely different from what's happening now and where we've been going since BC that it's almost an entirely different game when so much of what wow is now is about convenience and never leaving anyone behind, vanilla was all about leaving people behind.
Also I just straight up liked the PvP more but that's just me. I think WoW today is fine and I still play it all the time but for completely different reasons for why I liked Vanilla at the time.
>>341530697
>Defias Pillager deals 150+ damage with Fireball
>at the appropriate level you have ~300-400 hp
>they come in packs of 2-3
>Defias Rogue deals 100+ damage with Backstab every second while in front of you
You either stunlock/CC them or you die. End of story.
And yes, every class was 2-3 buttons. If you can name one that wasn't, I'll give you a cookie.
>>341532292
>I like WoD
were you dropped on your head as a child?
>>341531328
this. Even as a hunter you needed to use EVERY ability, viper sting on certain caster nps, distract shot, placed traps in LOS, FD trap, wing clip a mob that a healer aggro'd, use flare on invis, etc.
>>341532389
Why do you think I'm here on /v/ fagola?
>>341519032
because vanilla WoW was like having a mac in the 80's early 90's, you were special, you felt superior to everybody but no one understood why, only you and your close friends or tech savy would appreciate the value of a MAC.
Then in 2000+ it became a trend to buy Apple products to be "different", they spend so much in advertising that everyone and their mother thought that owning an apple product made them better than everyone else. Same happened with WoW it was good game and it got praised by everybody that played it, but the people that got into it after vanilla didn't udnerstand what was so good about it, they got frustrated they were being gated out of content. Blizzard having business geniuses decided to lower the entry bar and remove all the locks behind content so everyone could feel special and amazing, so now no one felt special or amazing anymore, all you have is clones of each class running around with the same gear and the same specs and the same everything, most you get was a recolor of the same armor from being super hardcore.
I won't go deeper into the MAC analogy, but you can guess it, owning an apple product nowadays it's actually being hipster and really has no value, you waste money on overpriced hardware and don't even know why, same as WoW you're just one more of 7 million players doing the same autistic grinds with really no point in doing them anymore besides wasting your life.
>>341532374
Yeah, it's called using more than 2-3 abilities and playing as a group. Seeing as you probably never got passed westfall, every class was probably 2-3 abilties for you.
And there's many ways to kill a pack of mobs, you can pull one with a ranged attack and the others will get out of range and run back because they didnt take damage.
>>341532132
and im pretty sure you will be fond of these memories when you are old.
theres a whole world to explore out there man...
>>341532132
Actually there's a whole slew of benefits if you work out a half hour a day. For one reducing an assortment of heart problems that will occur from you being a seldom lazy shit.
>>341532389
As much as ashran is a piece of shit that tries to ruin it, I still like the PvP a lot.
I like Draenor as a continent is and the aesthetics of the armor/weapons are my thing.Personally I like followers and garrisons.and game time coins mean no actual subs anymore. So yeah I like it, not for the same reasons I used to like WoW though.
>>341533565
>I like followers and garrisons
oh youre just cancer
>>341533041
that's not even mentioning the fact that most classes by that point have some type of CC or heal
>>341519032
Vanilla was more challenging and more satisfying than modern day WoW. After BC the blizz devs decided to continuously dumb the game down, starting with WotLK. The raiding scene was 10 times better in vanilla due mainly to this. Far more people involved in raiding, and you had to be in guilds to do it. I remember spending a year and a half clearing the top content in Vanilla working with my guild to get better and better.
In WotLK I think I cleared the hardest content in the game after like a month of Pick up groups. And it has supposedly gotten even easier than that, with LFRs where you can literally afk the entire raid and still clear the hardest content in the game, again in a pick up group. Its no wonder most people dont even bother anymore, there is no accomplishment in clearing raids now, so there is no point in playing. I think Blizzards next raid will just be a giant treasure room with no bosses or mobs to kill, just free loot.
>>341527114
it was near impossible to clear Heroic dungeons in TBC if you didn't communicate, at least in the beginning when everybody was still wearing greens and blues. If you were in a progression guild that had everything on farm probably not, but the average pug was a fucking nightmare on heroic, I liked it that way, if WoW had kept that difficulty level through all the expansions for 5 man content and had some stupid cosmetic reward for doing I would have never cancelled my sub until this day
>>341533902
Yeah.
>>341527823
I've leveled so many characters, and I still enjoy repeating the same old quests over and over for no reason, I just stop doing them because you outlevel them so fast and they become grey in a flash if you run a dungeon in that level range.
I wish there was a speedrun mode that forced you to level with no heirlooms and dungeons didn't gave you like 4 levels per run, and get some sort of reward for hitting X level as fast as possible or whatever, leveling is the only thing I'm good at and I enjoy it a lot, I maxed my account on characters a few times and I still want more, sadly there's no point in leveling that many alts at all.
Honestly the leveling
Journey to level 100 currently:
Deck yourself out in full heirloom
"Painfully" quest to lvl 15
AFK in major city while you q for dungeons
Repeat
Seriously I leveled an alt and got level 50 in a single day
>>341534895
in a single day, NEET
>>341519032
>>341533946
Here is a video to add to what I said about how easy LFRs are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas
>>341535298
Yes, and?
>>341519032
Tbh wod raid content is kind of lame. Hfc and brf were okay, but not amazing like they needed to be.
They made the mistake of keeping questlines and phasing very linear, as expected.
Nostalgia goggles are unavoidable, but vanilla really did feel like a bigger world most of the time.
>>341535298
Not him, I play about 5ish hours per day, and with one heirloom (thanks random donator) and a tank spec, I got to 50 in about 6 days through dungeons.
>Vanilla was only for the hardcore or autistic
Hilarious epic meme. Vanilla was praised for being accessible and was way more inviting to newer players.
Modern WoW treats leveling like its a chore. The game does everything it can to rush you through the leveling as fast as possible. New players out level zones they're questing in and get thrown into dungeons they have no reference to in terms of actual location or context.
All the changes made in Cataclysm were done to accommodate the faggots who have been playing this game for 10 years and want to level alts faster.
The games main problem with subs now is that it can't recruit or keep new players anymore. People get worn out by the dull boring leveling and when they finally reach the "real game" they find out the "real game" is sitting in queues and farming worthless shit to do multiple tiers of a single raid.
>>341531101
I've never played it should I wait till legion?
>>341535410
LFRs exist only for scrubs who never raided or can't meet the requirements for hardcore raiding. (people who can show up at 8pm and raid for 4 hours twice a week)
The endgame content is still harder than ever.
>>341533946
>>341535410
I didn't even read your post. Vanilla raiding was easy with the simplest mechanics involving tank and spank and don't stand in the fire. The only hard part was getting 40 people together.
The next part was having 10 competent people to carry the shitty 30.
I don't understand how having a larger 40man raid is better than a 20 man raid.
Is it weird that as a wrathbabby I can't remember very much at all about older systems
Like whatever the old mount and companion interfaces were, I can't recall that at all
>>341536669
The new mount system is much better. Having them take inventory space was troublesome.
I especially remember playing on my shaman and having 4 useless totems in my damn inventory. I remember warlocks having bags dedicated to stupid ass shards and hunters wasting bag slots for ammo.
>>341519032
What I want to know is the truth: I keep hearing that rogues are getting fucked in legion, and that they'll be amazing in legion. What is the truth?
>>341536386
That is irrelevant becuase LFR has managed to kill raiding anyways. For the vast majority of people, they will go through LFR, see all the boss fights, get the gear and be done with it. I mean why bother to play the exact same content you already played to get the same gear you already have, but this time on a harder difficulty. There just isnt much appeal to it. Once youve been there done that your ready to move on to the next thing.
>>341536620
So your saying afking in LFR for free epics is harder than Naxx. If the case how come very few guilds even got to Naxx, whereas any noob can clear all of the content in the game through LFRs in a week.
Also getting 40 people was not a challenge, the raiding guild scene was 10 times more vibrant and alive than today. There were tons of raiders, you could get 40 people easily unless you were on a low pop server. Also 40 people made things harder, thats more people to make a mistake and wipe the raid. Also being in vent with 40 people raiding was a fun experience.
>>341536813
Ammo is something I can remember, anyone who thinks ammo should come back can fuck off forever
Just a waste of money and bag slots, god forbid you don't have a few thousand iceblade arrows on you at all times
>>341537307
How is that irrelevant? The people who want to see the real content will actually group up and raid.
Even the WoW normies know that lfr gear is scrub gear. It is not the same exact content when LFR is incredibly dumbed down and exist solely for players who can't raid seriously.
Nax was a joke raid and by no means hard. Stop saying LFR LFR LFR, lfr exist for "noobs" and casuals. People who want to raid and see content will raid do the raids like normal. Raiding has gotten significantly harder with more mechanics.
40 man raids leads to more chaos and weaker mechanics because one person fucking up a raid for 4 hours sounds like fun. The raiding scene is still hard and people will spend 4 hours raiding everynight just to clear content.
>>341536669
When you play on a private server for the first time and run into this stuff it immediately comes rushing back to you
It's really bizzare.
>>341537459
>just got in or in the middle of a dungeon/raid
>out of arrows
>the shame and horror as you realize you'll need to say something
>>341536669
Personally I think LFR should not give any gear, and should soley exist for ultra casuals to be able to see content. I think giving gear that is still fairly good and looks identical to the real raids gear is bad. If anything make the LFR gear look bad, like make the epic chest pieces that drop just a torn, stained tank top that says "weenie" on it with arm pool floaties. Allowing LFR gear as it is really cheapens the gear from real raids as well as the achivement associated with it.
>>341536386
The point is its created player apathy and reduced motivation to create new fresh raiders
There have always been casual players even in Vanilla. The only difference is the game didn't accommodate them
>>341538243
>being that faggot who didn't stock up on arrows before the dungeon
You make us all look bad and cemented "huntard" forever.
In terms of general gameplay the only thing Vanilla was actually doing better was world design as every zone felt quite dangerous to traverse and atmospheric. Due to this aspect alone people would tend to group more and get to know one another as they were all tied to the same realm and could go on to do dungeons or even raids. So Vanilla always wins on a social level.
You actually get into the core rotations of classes and their balance you can just forget it. The design was atrocious.
>>341519032
You've never heard any reasoning why?
Maybe you should fucking listen once in a while, you stupid piece of shit.
>>341537459
Ammo was dumb but the original pet ability/training system was fucking awesome.
You had to go out and tame specific animal mobs to learn abilities.
Now you just tame whatever animal and that's the end of it. Its boring as fuck
>>341537307
I'll throw in my two cents and say LFR makes me want to be in a raiding guild more so I don't have to do LFR.
Also I agree with >>341538749
>>341538909
>You actually get into the core rotations of classes and their balance you can just forget it. The design was atrocious.
I preferred the slower gameplay. Regardless of how complex you think modern class design is it still boils down to hitting buttons 1 through 5 in a specific order or waiting on a proc.
Fights in modern WoW all play out like DBZ fights where the supplement actual encounter design with having the raid having to sprint around the room or jump through hoops
Because the old game rewarded you for your time and effort. There was a greater distinction between the haves and have-nots.
WoW used to punish noobs at every turn. Now its main focus is to be noob-friendly. The game has been redesigned to allow dude-bros to be successful while playing 2 hrs a week. There is little distinction between them and the autismos that grind more than a full time job.
In a way it's easier and more relaxing, but it's spawned a toxic community of self-entitled retards who have never had to work for a damn thing in their entire lives.
>>341522685
I'm sure that's what they want you to believe.
At the end of the day, blizzard is more than happy to take your $30
>>341538909
Are you reffering to the fact that there were alot of talent spec trees that were not viable for raiding? It was supposed to be that way, some trees are for raiding others for pvp. I assume you were one of those Priests who refused to do your job and heal and instead tried to raid as a shadow priest. In a game with some difficulty you have to make smart decisions or you are going to struggle.
Community. Changes to the game have destroyed the community
>cross realm zones
>lfg/lfr
>realm and faction transfers
>easy as fuck to get to level cap, everyone has multiple capped toons
>everyone sees end game content in the first month of release
>world is dead because everyone is queuing in cities/garrisons or flying above it - not to mention lack of content to do anyway
>for the pvpers, world pvp is dead
>due to decline of game, only people left playing are whiney fucks who don't realise that no one is forcing them to play - only the worst of the community remains
The thing about classic wow is that it had a lot of problems. It was because of those problems that a community developed, to overcome adversity. The game today might as well be single player unless you are lucky enough to be in one of the remaining good guilds.
>>341524658
>being this stupid
Flying is what makes the world feel dead, you never see anyone. It makes content easier because you fly over it. I'm fine with maybe the final zone requiring flight, I'm fine with level capped content requiring flight, but faggots need to stop insisting that they get flight early on.
>>341539805
>There was a greater distinction between the haves and have-nots.
This is exactly right. Back in Vanilla you had to work for it in order to see the content and get the gear. Now anyone can easily see the content and get the gear. Its like WoW became communist or something.
>>341539079
I'm of the opposite opinion, I like pets being equal because it means I can use whatever pet I like and not suffer much if at all in performance, or I can fill in whatever buffs or effects are missing from the group
But then buffs and non exotic pet abilities are going away in Legion and I'm torn between thinking they've homogenized it too far and being glad I can use a carrion bird or riverbeast without missing out on some minor stat increase
>>341525787
>trade chat
Don't be retarded. There was no trade chat. You rode the tram from stormwind to ironforge to spam your shit in the general chat. Then you waited for an extra 30 minutes for everyone to walk all the way to the god damn entrance.
And honestly, I still prefer that. Nobody rage quit and dropped group after X number of wipes when you went through all of that.
>>341524658
>flight paths never existed
>>341525787
>Nobody socialized in those PuGs, they were as silent as they are now and if you say otherwise you are blatantly lyin
man there's a lot of disinfo in this thread tonight.
normally these threads are full of people who actually played vanilla
>>341539805
This is exactly it.
Vanilla WoW was so much more than killing the big-bad of the current expansion. It was about EVERYTHING. It was about grinding reputation to get another race's mount. It was about collecting every darkmoon fair card to make your trinket. It was about pvping every week to maintain your title.
There was so much wonder in the game. Spurs for your boots that made your mount go faster, weapons that procced massive amounts of damage, trinkets that made you breath fire. There seems to be none of that anymore, and no use for it either.
It really feels like a shitty single player game these days.
Anyway so now that Vanillaboys got BTFO who is playing the latest PTR to try out the class changes?
Why the fuck Blizzard, instead of shutting down Vanilla wow private servers and coming out as a dounche, don't release legacy servers?
Servers where the content is up to X expansion.
One for vanilla, one for BC, up to WoLK. There, problem solved, everybody plays wow again.
>>341541559
Doing that means admitting their new game is shit.
Also, there are a lot of players who are currently playing the latest expansion who would prefer to be playing Vanilla or BC. It's not like it's going to be all new subs; it's going to take away from the current game and make it feel even emptier than it already is.
>>341541319
>There was so much wonder in the game. Spurs for your boots that made your mount go faster, weapons that procced massive amounts of damage, trinkets that made you breath fire. There seems to be none of that anymore, and no use for it either.
There were a ton of fun trinkets as well and ones that gave no benefits except for an active effect for a specific thing such as the luffa for removing bleeds (perfect for rogues v warriors). The nifty stopwatch (a trinket from a level 40 zone) was amazing in 60s WSG because it was an extra speedboost.
it's taken some time, but most every bit of personality from the game has been taken out, nerfed, or -- in the case for classes -- given to every class.
>>341538749
It already only exists for super casuals to see the content, LFR gear is worse than dungeon gear.
>>341541990
LFR is getting back tier though
>>341541939
Seems kind of stupid, how long they will keep WoW alive? It aint no Ultima Online, never has, they're deluding themselves if they think people will look at it with the same legacy as Ultima, they're not half as loyal.
Let the game go, give it a sequel, make the legacy servers and be done with it.
>>341538776
>There have always been casual players even in Vanilla. The only difference is the game didn't accommodate them
i absolutely disagree. have you tried getting a casual player who's absolutely new to play WoW now? there's an absolute fuck ton of shit to take in and not to mention the entire game is designed around being level 100. It's heart breaking to see them play and get WoD and say "wow i wish i would not have wasted my time with alchemy" and shit like that.
back in vanilla leveling WAS the content. doing dungeons WAS the content. now its rush rush rush to the content and do it with a buncha people you don't care and won't see again and then get bored of it because it was so easy to begin with.
there was so much for a casual in Vanilla -- it was the most casualized mmo on the market even then.
>>341542624
So you basically agreed with exactly what I said
>>341541559
Money isn't coming from subs, it comes from expansions - hence faster release cycle and increased cost despite no one wanting either. Legacy server would be a financial disaster.
>>341519032
Because there was investment and incentive in your daily activity more so than now. I could do a selection of things that all led up to progress of player power and option. Professions gave another avenue of player power instead of the slip and slide that is gearing up now. PvP? I could use an Ice Tipped Barb that'll get me through.
WoW was always a theme park MMO, but at least back then there were other rides and attractions. Now it's raid.
>yfw you will never have your pc crash when you enter the stormwind ah ever again
:(
