Why do we hate Final Fantasy XIII again?
Literally more linear than 2d platformers
>we
People hate it for being a 20 hour tutorial.
>Somehow makes ffx's sphere-grid even more linear and pointless.
>>341013440
>hallway simulator
>battles fight themselves
>lore is irrelevant
These are the most common complaints. I liked it, though.
>>341013440
Snow is the worst character ever and its a hallway simulator. The only time you really actually feel like you can explore around and find things is when you're in archyllte steppes. Couple that with their poor idea of side content and you're just going to have a bad time.
I was thinking of give it try. Is it really that bad?
>We
It was fine. Certainly better than X.
XIII-2 was o-kay.
LR is the best in the trilogy.
>>341014012
I still think it's a decent game. It looks lovely and the environments are interesting, some of the characters are alright, the soundtrack is pretty good, the battle dynamic is pretty neat (you don't have to let it play itself).
>>341013440
It bored me to tears,if you like it i don't mind.I do wanna fuck lighting though.
Story got worse and nonsensical as the game went on.
>play it on xbox, have a decent time
>decide to replay it on pc at 60
>it runs at 40-50 fps, choppy as fuck
>decide to cap it to 30, because i'd rather a consistent 30 than wild fluctuations
>it runs at 20-25 when capped at 30
what the fuck
>>341013440
I don't. It really isn't as bad as people say.
I personally picked it up for dirt cheap couple years ago, despite having heard all sorts of shit about it.
The BEGINNING really didn't even try to prove all the bad claims about it wrong, but luckily, to my own surprise as well, the more I played, the more entertaining and hooking it became. It's not GOTYAY or best JRPG ever in any sense, but it's FAR from the "worst crap ever" -category. A solid 7/10 experience IMO.
The sequels fixed, expanded and improved many things, especially pacing and gameplay. Up to you whether you like the direction they went with the plot and cast, but they're not hideous either. I found especially LR to be total blast, easily my 2014's GOTY. The 13-2 was simply fun, easily 8/10 at least.
>>341013440
Let's say you're willing to put up with the half-baked battle system and 30 hour tutorial. Let's say you actually prefer linear games.
The plot is still terrible with a LITERAL deus-ex machina ending. The characters are still unlikable cunts who go through token development and never feel like real people. The music is still all over the place and inappropriately used. The worldbuilding is still nonexistent aside from edgy "WAKE UP SHEEPLE" and vague pseudo-poetic "histories" buried in a menu. The art direction is still incredibly inconsistent and nonsensical, even by JRPG/Final Fantasy standards.
In short, it's not just missing >muh towns or >muh turn-based, it's missing EVERYTHING that truly makes Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy.
prolly cuz it's fuckin terrible
>>341013440
>we
I liked it. I played through it about four times
>>341013440
because Spoon didn't like it
>>341013440
BECAUSE IT'S LINEAR
AND LINEAR THINGS ARE SO GROSS LIKE UGGGGHHHH
>>341013541
Are 2D platformers bad all of a sudden?
I haven't even played it, but I like some of the soundtrack
>>341013938
Snow is stupid and boring, but Hope is the worst character, second only to Vanille
>>341015920
What's wrong with Vanille?
She cute as fuck
>>341013440
It's a good game
>>341013625
this
also the characters and story are fucking stupid
is FF X/X-2 HD remaster good?
memes of course
>>341015530
It was hated the week it came out. Nothing to do with Spoony
>>341016817
just like the ff8 hate has nothing to do with Spoony amirite?
Because all aspects of it except visual quality are bad. On the plus side it also functions.
VIII was worse. The sequels were great.
>>341013440
>20 hour tutorial
>Nearly every single cast member sucks
>I've seen trains make more turns
>Details to main plot aren't really explained outside codex
>Combat system is shit
>Enemies are rather uninspired
>Plot is old and uninspired
>Weapon upgrade system is a mess
>Lvl up system is more railroaded than the rest of the game.
>Summons are batshit retarded
>muh teen angst
Don't think I'm forgetting anything. It looks great for it's age, and the soundtrack is a huge departure from Uematsu but not bad
>>341016912
No I agree about most of the FF8 hate coming from Spoony but 13 was hated long before he even thought about reviewing it.
>>341017402
So it comes from other memes
>>341017149
OST was uninspired. Only thing I can still slightly remember is the battle theme.
>>341013440
Everyhting is on a streamline. It's not even a fucking RPG
SHIT.
>>341013440
Chapters drag on way too long. I actually like the game though.
>>341018185
The best thing about the OST was the ambiance of the stage themes.
This OST isn't meant to appeal to short attention span autists like you
>>341018920
forgot examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Dgj83Q-50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQSr2Qq30mM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FngKxKPUUzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lZC8IUj-cw
>>341015597
>jumps on the analogy rather than the argument
>being this bad at reading comprehension
I started FF-13 in 2009 and I still have not finished it to this day.
It took me 7 years to get back to Cocoon, it's just such a long game. I'm in the lobby looking area before the final boss.
I wanna get choked on Fang's thighs
>>341019539
Are you autistic?
>>341019178
Oh yeah, the point of the original post was
>muh linearity
It's been what, 7 years now?
Still going with a non-argument?
>>341020889
>non-argument
Keep telling yourself that.
>>341021140
Linearity isn't inherently bad
I've never heard people complain about linearity in Bayonetta
If anything more open-ended designs tend to always be worse because of the lack of focus, collectathons, and general tedium
>>341019539
>It's such a long game
is FF13 your first?
>>341013440
>Why do we hate Final Fantasy XIII again?
Have you played it? Apparently not.
>>341022856
>>>tumblr
>>341013625
Commenting to approve this post. It's 20 hours if you're actually decent at games too, extend that up to 30 hours or a little more if you're a shitter.
>>341016912
>>341017402
He hates FF10 even more yet it's still the second most popular FF behind 7. I played FF8 long before Spoony ever happened and I still hated it even back then. Fuck the battle system and fuck that mopey bitch Squall.
>>341022032
>Linearity isn't inherently bad
No shit sherlock.
This isn't about linearity being bad. Its about FF13 linearity being bad.
>>341013440
To be fair, 13 is kinda shitty. It's a literal hallway, you don't have a lot of different playstyles and the story is kinda shitty (here's a vision, do shit, maybe, idk)
13-2 on the other hand is at least a 8/10
>>341013440
Linear as fuck, ass-backwards storytelling and combat was brain dead at best of times. Could have been somewhat good if you could control or at least rely on your party members during combat.
It was pretty at the time tho.
>>341016307
>also the characters and story are fucking stupid
100% this
>>341023969
But why?
The combat is not even on the field, so the linearity doesn't affect it, the levels are just a way to connect fight to fight
There's nothing wrong about it
KH2 was very similar, corridors connecting a bunch of big rooms were the enemies are
>>341023252
Who are you quoting?
>>341024467
Dead world. Only time I ever saw other people in there besides MC+party were the times they were being chased which was 90% of the npc encounters. Other 10% was 1-2 instances of seeing a small portion of a city/village and even then it turned to fugitive fantasy in a matter of minutes.
XIII being bad had (almost) nothing to do with linearity.
The worldbuilding is practically nonexistent. I know NOTHING about the culture or people of XIII except that they're all apparently irredeemable sheeple. There's some stuff about Pulsians in the datalog but even that doesn't actually talk about anything substantive.
All of the characters are complete shit. Sazh is the only one who is remotely likable/relatable, but he has no real arc to speak of and honestly isn't all that plot relevant. Hope stops being a whiny kid but no reason is ever really given for this, and he just kind of stops existing as a character after his little speech in the ark. Snow literally never learns to grow up or fully takes responsibility for his actions but gets a free pass because everything is solved by a L I T E R A L deus ex machina in the end. Lightning has a bunch of lame, hamfisted "revelations" but never gets a chance to exhibit how she's evolved as a person, plus one of the key scenes where she realizes she was "wrong" is actually one of the few times she's actually right(the birthday scene). Fang is a complete pos who would literally let millions of people die over her disgusting girlfriend, and Vanille is...Vanille.
I have analyzed the SHIT out of all the other Final Fantasy games and even though they're sometimes told poorly or awkwardly, ALL of them have some central theme/s that they're trying to convey. XIII is the sole exception to this. Again, there's no worldbuilding so no meaning there; the characters all suck and undergo barely any development so no meaning there; and the world is saved through "the goddess'(who we never meet or even hear of aside from extremely vague allusions in the datalog) mercy" so there's no meaning there either.
So just from a plot/worldbuilding standpoint, which is the key pillar of any FF, it's already shit. There's also issues with the scenario design, pacing, music, and art direction, but I'm already at the limit
people hate 13 for all the reasons they love 10.
It's still hilarious to me how people love 10 when its the exact same hallway bullshit where you don't get an open area til the last act of the game.
Yeah I guess 10 at least has backtracking, but its pretty pointless, it only exists for some fetch quests and airship codes that lead to a chest
>>341025241
Linearity is one of the biggest reasons X is constantly shat upon.
>>341025006
Intro when Snow abd NORA fight alongside a bunch of people
Later in Palumpolum when they're a citywide lockdown there are still npcs
Snow chases them off to get the to safety
In the amusement park with Sazh and Vanille
When they come back to Cocoon and everything is going to shit
>>341025090
>mfw XV is going to be almost this shit
>>341013440
linear progression
not very good game play
awful characters
awful story
>>341025382
So you agree with what I'm saying am I getting it right? Because that list proves it.
>>341022032
for an RPG it is, the whole point is to explore and talk to people and learn about the world, that's the whole point of rpgs.
>>341025637
There were a bunch of moments
But ultimately yeah, considering 50% of the game is on Pulse where there are no humans anymore
It wasn't that bad.
You guys are just memeing.
>>341013440
It became a waifupandering garbagefest like the 99% rest of the japanese market.
>>341026414
Why is that racoon watching CP
>>341026305
>50%
Yer off on your math there son.
>>341025658
Not really
That's a visual novel
RPGs are about the leveling, crazy battles, story about saving the world, a ton of numbers with the stats being more important than the actual skill
>>341026559
You're right
Considering FFXIII is a 100 hour game, with almost 10 hours of cutscenes, 30 hours on Cocoon, and 60 hours on Pulse, that makes Pulse 60% of the game
>shitty characters
>shitty plot
>shitty "mash x to combat" system
>linear as all fuck
>boring
>every combat feels the fucking same
>every BOSS feels the fucking same
>stagger mechanic is shit
Legitimately one of the worst games I've ever played. The combat system is sleep inducing for the entire game. The story put me into a coma.
How anyone likes this game is literally beyond my comprehension. The only redeeming factors is that it has a good soundtrack and good visuals. Everything else is unbelievably terrible
>>341026827
>60 hours on Pulse
You mean those horrible "side quests" right?
>>341026645
no a visual novel has to control of who to talk to.
Rpg is where You the player play as a character and choose who to talk to, where to go, what to explore and build that character by doing such. Role Playing is the key here, what 13 was nothing short of a visual novel, instead of turning the page you push forward on the control stick.
>>341026645
how bad were you that you needed 30 hours on cocoon?
>>341027284
correction on the first sentence.
No visual novel gives you control of the charaters.*
>>341013440
I don't hate it, it's just a bad game.
>>341027245
Yup
>>341027284
>>341027461
Visual Novels are concerned with narrative, clicking on every item in the wirld and exploring and looking in every nook and cranny
RPGs are concerned with fighting big giant monsters in stat driven combat
And 30 hours on Cocoon is because I'm also considering chapters 12-13
>>341027630
what are you talking about, that's not a visual novel that's an adventure game like monkey island or mist.
RPGs have you control a character, talk to people and get hints or discuss world building. You have stats that go with it through exploring so you build your character. You go through encounters that you use to build your stats and your character along with items that effect your characters outcome.
What you describe is a point and click adventure game that only has one character that you have no control on its build.
Role Playing has you control the characters personal decisions.
FF13 is one of the worst rpgs, Japanese or otherwise, I have ever played and as soon as the credits hit I was mashing eject on the ps3 and getting rid of it before people figured out how crap it was and no one would want to buy it off me. I'd play Arcania Gothic 5 or Dragon Age 2 before playing FF13 again. Oddly enough, I actually remember /v/ saying it was shit based on the Japanese release. Should have listened.
>>341028637
it was final fantasy anon, how were we to know
>>341013440
Until you get to Gran Pulse, you have no freedom and all paths are linear hallways.
Gran Pulse is a Point of No Return at the end of a series of Point of No Returns, so if you miss ANYTHING you cannot 100% the game.
You don't make any money from battles, so grinding to forge weapons involves farming with abysmal drop rates.
>>341028504
Visual novels and adventure games are synonyms
Games like Danganronpa, Steins;Gate, Monkey Island, or Planescape Torment are all similar between each other, heavily story focused and focus exploring the world, talking to people and the overall narrative experience
Besides according to you not even FFI was an rpg according to you since you don't make personal decisions
>>341013440
>>341029182
No they aren't, Visual novels are just static images you click to the next form of dialogue. There is no building it's just reading a comic on a computer screen. Adventure games have you solve puzzles and point and click different items to move the narrative along.
FF1 gives you choices you dimwit. You choose what class you are and even the names and items you wear, along with that there is story and you have to explore to beat the game. You have to talk to people to tell you where to go fight off the fiends and retire powerful items. I mean common man are you this new to RPGs you don't even know this?
>>341029342
Meme image
>>341030180
it's not wrong, that's exactly what happens
>>341029342
Holy fuck I can't wait til the remaster comes out next year. I miss this game.
>>341029787
Ok fine then I was referring to adventure games and not visual novels since you want to make that distinction
Still there are no plot altering choices in FFI, or any FF for that matter, things always end up in the same way, it's always minor stuff like who rides with Tidus on the snow
>>341013440
When you get to gran pulse and realize FF13 is in fact a rythm game masquerading as a full fledged JRPG it becomes a lot more enjoyable.
>>341013440
1. It has an awful story. FFgames are not especially known for making sense. But even in Final Fantasy X - where the story was about the dream of a dead person traveling to the future to fight his father who had turned into a giant sky-blob – the story might have been batshit insane, but I could still follow it.
I spent the first 20 hours of FFXIII not knowing what the fuck was going on or why the heroes were doing anything, thanks to the world’s worst collection of fantasy proper nouns (the “heroes” have been turned into L’Cie by a Fal’Cie and might turn into a Cie’th? Fuck you).
2. It has obscenely linear gameplay. The maps are straight lines and there are no towns, no shops, no inns, and practically no other characters besides the players and a few antagonists. It is the least epic world that has ever been featured in a Final Fantasy
3. The combat is utterly broken. There are three types of fights in Final Fantasy XIII: fights with regular enemies you can win solely by hitting the “Auto-Battle” button over-and-over again; boss fights which last long enough to require some “paradigm shifting” and perhaps a bit of strategy; and finally, fights which regular enemies who are rendered needlessly powerful in order to make you use FFXIII‘s horrible system.
4. The characters are shit. These characters have no depth and, thanks to the horrible story, no discernable motivation. It’s impossible to root for them, like them, or care about them. I hate them.
5. Few and boring enemy designs.
6. The storytelling is horrible. Of FFXIII‘s first 25 hours, I estimate maybe 8 full hours of it has been cut-scenes - cut-scenes which don’t advance the story ever. They are clumsily forced into the game at every opportunity. They’re never short, and they’re never meaningful. It’s just another chance for Lightning to be a bitch, Snow to be a jackass, Vanille to prance around disconcertingly, and Hope to collapse to the ground.
>>341026414
I can't even tell what's on that screen.
>>341025241
10 had a god tier combat system though. Which, personally, is my reason for hating 13 most.
>>341026414
>>341030974
Oh now I can see it. Why do Japs still censor their pown?
>>341030643
There are altering choices, not based on dialoge but choices you do when building stats or choosing your class. The whole point was you had to explore in the role you choose to play as. Part of that role playing is talking to towns people, which some games do have altering consiquences, also you can choose not to get things like the rat tale that up grades your characters. All this is done by exploration and talking to npcs. You don't get any where when you don't talk to them, and even then you get npcs that will only talk to a specific character.
World building and adventuring part of the core aspects of an RPG, with out direct control of your characters growth and stratagies, and with no exploration, you can hardly call a game an rpg.
>>341013440
Hate is abit of a strong word. Dislike maybe. Those of us that dislike do so because we think its a bad game
i dont though
>>341031297
Then we just have different opinions
To me the important stuff in an rpg is the overall style and presentation, the music, the length needs be high, and a ton of battles with a lot of bosses in stat driven combat
>>341030832
FFX is basically the same in terms of linearity. I really don't get why this is such a huge issue with the game since it's just as much of a problem in X. Was it because X did everything else correctly where XIII just shit the bed so it gets criticized more for it?
>>341030832
>I spent the first 20 hours of FFXIII not knowing what the fuck was going on or why the heroes were doing anything, thanks to the world’s worst collection of fantasy proper nouns (the “heroes” have been turned into L’Cie by a Fal’Cie and might turn into a Cie’th? Fuck you).
I wish people wouldn't fixate on this. Even if you don't necessarily know what those terms mean it's obvious what tropes are being invoked based on context.
The real problem is that beyond the initial introduction, nothing is ever expanded upon. In the beginning, you have a vague notion that fal'Cie are some kind of inscrutable godlike entities and that becoming a l'Cie is a kind of "curse" that makes you powerful but comes with strings attached.
FORTY HOURS LATER the nature and motives of the fal'Cie are no clearer or more detailed than our initial impression. In fact, throughout ALL THREE games it's NEVER made clear what the fal'Cie are or what they wanted beyond some vague bullshit about God that doesn't clarify anything or hold any symbolism or meaning. It would be the equivalent of FFX's Sin turning out to just be le random skywhale that destroys things for no reason with none of the dark undertones or history that we learn at the end of that game.
>>341031616
that's not an rpg then, what you described has rpg elements and would be a side scroller or any game really that has Stat building. That's not an rpg you need exploration towns people to talk to, even ff 1 you have to explore to learn more of what's going on in the story. You can't simply move forward and let a cuts scene do the work for you.
>>341031640
My main problem is the combat in XIII is sooo dull
Linearity isn't a big deal in a vacuum but when the rest of your game sucks ass it stands out a lot more. Plus at least in X you got to talk to people and walk around you know. It made it at least feel less linear. 13 is literally a long corridor and then a cutscene repeat with no interruptions.
>>341032168
Ok then by your definition of rpg, FFXIII isn't an rpg
That doesn't make it bad
>>341013440
Boring as fuck linearity ruined it for me, the battle system felt like mashing buttons for 20 hours until you actually have decisions over it
It also has the stupidest characters and plot ever occuring in an jrpg, like they were aiming at edgy retarded teenagers. Fuck, at some point I even felt I was watching an overacted mexican soap opera, like the scenes with hope blaming snow for the death of his mother or snow giving a moral speech to the soldiers in some roof, I literally cringed through them
>>341032568
when final fantasy series is an rpg series and one of them fails to live up to that, yes it is a bad entry to the series.
BTW if you like the game, that's fine, but don't be surprised by the amount of hate it gets from fans who are used to an RPG series.
>>341013440
It's a dumb down from FF XII in almost every area. I don't know how they managed to fuck up so badly. They had enough time to make a decent game, but they chose to go full linear, uninteresting characters, shitty story, no control over party members, 20hrs tutorial, disappointing last boss.
It has beautiful visuals, but what for if you can't even fully explore it? That Oeba village in particular was pretty cool, such a waste of material.
Regardless of whether or not the combat difficulty made a difference, this really pissed me off:
Practically every enemy does AOE attacks, yet you have no control over where your characters go. Sometimes an enemy attack might hit 3 characters, sometimes it might hit just 1, it's pure fucking luck and it's retarded.
>>341032749
But this is stupid
It's just as stupid as when people bash on KHCoM because it has card-based combat instead of ARPG combat
Just because it's different doesn't mean it's automatically bad
>>341032967
I think if it was a good game people wouldn't shit on it even if it wasn't a traditional RPG
It tried something radically different and also failed at it so it gets more hate then normal
>>341032967
you still have control over sora and could walk around with some freedom. The card system could be altered and you could have various attacks. In 13 you have no to little control. KH system is on opinions there, but 13 is a bad rpg because it is not fully an rpg.
I don't get the complaints about the battle system.
Yes it seems like shit until you get to the airship because you don't actually need to take advantage of the battle system and can just mash X to get through fights.
But once you get to the airship/fifth Ark/Pulse, it really opens up. Buffs are useful, debuffs are useful, status-protecting equipment is often useful, and you can't just use one strategy/paradigm to steamroll everything.
The stagger mechanic adds a bit of depth to it as well.
That's a lot more than FFX did where the only useful buff is haste (maybe cheer in the beginning of the game), debuffs are mostly worthless on story bosses are all sidequest/postgames bosses are immune to pretty much everything, and the go-to strategy becomes Ultra NullAll/Super Migthy G -> Spam quick hits.
Not being able to directly control your party members doesn't feel like a big deal because they pretty much do what you want them to, provided you get them on the right paradigm, and the atb fills fast enough that you're not waiting around forever.
I will agree that not being able to move your characters around in battle is annoying when quite a few enemies have AOEs.
All in all, the battle system is of course not as good as it was in XII, but it's definitely not garbage
>>341033391
Well I liked it
I understand why people don't but it seems like people just don't like that it was different instead of just bad
>>341033461
The cards completely change how boss battles are fought though
You have to be more patient and careful
>>341013440
I loved it. Story and characters are pretty bad outside of a few moments, but most FF games have horrible writing anyways. But taken as a linear action-RPG, it's amazing. All the combat encounters are planned well and before the long-ass tutorial is even over, there's a good number of challenging bosses. (I imagine most people who complain about how "it plays itself" haven't actually played very far into the game.) It has very well-directed gameplay, I come back to it every couple years and usually just skip the cutscenes.
I wish it had a Hard mode.
The sequels are significantly worse. FFXIII-2 was made to address the stupid complaints about the game and tried way too hard to make it open-ended. You wind up with a game where you just spend a lot of time running through towns full of identical NPCs trying to pick up bullshit repetitive sidequests. And the battle system is heavily nerfed, and to compensate everything but the DLC bosses are easy as shit. And LR is just badly designed in too many ways to list.
13 = 10/10
13-2 = 7/10
LR = 5/10, never finished it
>>341019164
Thank you for reminding me of this soundtrack.
>>341025241
I'm playing it right now, and it's nowhere near as linear as XIII
First and most obvious reason, you have actual towns in FFX, you don't walk in one straight line all the god damn time you fucking mongoloid turbocunt
I thought Lancerfags were smarter than this
>>341033671
I agree that's an rpg element, just people didn't like the cards. 13 is bad rpg, after that it's bad based on opinions.
>>341013440
Going multidisc on 360 moved the open world to the end.
60 hours in I was still getting tutorial messages.
Even on the final boss.
Overall I enjoyed it, especially the post-game content. Was really handholdy, though.
>>341013440
>Why do we hate Final Fantasy XIII again?
We don't, now that it's ported to PC:^)
>>341033712
>hard mode
this time auto button is on square button!
And your team cast AoE on themselves to kill the party!
>>341033712
While combat was dumbed down in XIII-2 it was a lot of fun to see the different endings and the music was better
LR had a visibly low budget but the combat was fantastic, you should finish it
This was my favorite saga in the 7th gen
>>341033574
Dude, the paradigms fucking suck. The AI has a preset order of buffs/debuffs, you have no control over them. In any case, if you go Lightning/Fang/Hope, Sazh or Vanille, you pretty much steamroll the enemies so it doesn't matter anyway.
>>341029342
the only unbiased infograph I came across, I didn't even like ff XII that much, but it was fun to play at least
>20 hours of tutorial
>garbage nonsense story even by JRPG standards
>linear even by JRPG standards
>no personality waifu wars-pandering protag
>no-substance auto-battling
>locking abilities behind certain characters
You can go on and on.
>>341033712
>final boss
>open with buffs and debuffs like you do with most every boss
>poison sticks to him
>hmmm
>just go full tank and heal mode
>mash x until he dies
What a legendary final boss fight
>>341034320
Yea, final boss could be cheesed with Poison. I actually never thought to try Poison specifically on my first playthrough and did it the hard way. 2nd playthrough I noticed and was appalled by how easy it was. Thankfully none of the endgame superbosses were that easy.
I don't really consider that a bad thing tho. That bosses have a hidden strategy to make it easy. Like I don't mind you can parry Dark Souls 1's final boss either, it's an interesting quirk to exploit once you know about it.
>>341029342
>FFXIII AOE hits everyone
This annoyed me so fucking much. You could send in someone for a closerange attack to try and time a "dodge", but then they just stood together and waited for their meters to refill after that.
>>341029342
Not entirely accurate.
You can switch characters out of combat qhenever you want, just not in combat. The diversity is there' it's just not part of the combat system.
And you can choose where your characters move in combat. It surprises me that people still don't know this when one of the best ways to handle that giant cactaur enemy was to keep the party out of needle range. Every attack has a scripted movement to it. Becomes handy for post-game content.
>>341033832
>you don't walk in a straight line in FFX
The actual maps for X are hilariously limited and it really is just moving from the place you entered to the other exit on the other side of the hallway.
Vast majority of FF games are linear hallway simulators that just give you glass walls to make you feel like you're outside.
>>341035017
>Vast majority of FF games are linear hallway simulators that just give you glass walls to make you feel like you're outside.
you mean vast majority of JRPGs
and they do it quite well
>>341026645
youre the only person with that opinion, and its a fucking stupid one.
>>341035147
This is true.
It's generally why I prefer jrpgs over wrpgs.
Given the chance to do everything, I will always choose to do nothing. I like having some direction and not being able to get the best items right off the bat.
>>341029182
>Visual novels and adventure games are synonyms
retard alert
>>341035017
Yes, every attack has a scripted movement, but once that movement was finished they returned to the same spot and waited. I never got far enough on Pulse to do any Cactuars, I was just annoyed that AoE spells wrecked my whole party.
I think it could be easily solved with a "spread out" formation, that way you would still have as much "control" over their movement.
>>341025090
>tfw your first pasta
You do me too much honor, anon
>>341035764
Kill yourself
>>341033712
>but most FF games have horrible writing anyways
>>341036023
You know it's true.
>>341022032
FF13 being linear is terrible when you think about why that decision was made. Toriyama said he made FF13 linear because he believed things like exploration, discovery, and NPC's distracted players from his waifu Lightning. It seems like the game is at odds with itself. Since the other characters are essentially npc's as far as Toriyama is concerned, it should have played like LR from the beginning. That would also explain why the combat is the way it is.
>>341036110
I know nothing of the kind. Also if you were really a gameplay fag you'd rate LR the highest.
>>341025241
Story and combat in X are miles ahead of XIII
>>341036434
>not rating LR the highest
>>341036023
>he thinks FF games have good writing
You are funny
>>341036635
it's 10/10 formeow meow choco-chowalone. Everything else is just gravy.
The only people defending XIII are the ones who were in elementary when it came out and Lightning was their first fap
If we had people here who grew up with FF2 (NES) we'd probably be getting threads like "Why do we hate FF2 again?"
don't even pretend it's not true
>>341033712
>my first Final Fantasy was XIII: the post
Tried to be another FFX but failed in every aspect except graphics
>>341036784
>he thinks making edgy comments on a brazilian macrame forum makes him look intelligent
>>341036635
13-2 better than 13? In what way?
>>341037132
I'm just as much a faggot as everyone else here, I'm not denying that. I can also admit that my favorite FF game has shit writing and so should you. There is nothing wrong enjoying it either, just don't go about telling people that it's master piece or anything.
>>341036635
>hated IV, VI and XII
>loved VIII, X, Crisis Core (seriously?) and the XIII trilogy
i cant wait to see more of world of final fantasy
>>341037305
Shit is a strong word, anon. The plots don't always fully pan out but the scope and themes are ambitious, to say the least.
>>341037305
FFVI is a masterpiece tho
>>341037175
>non linearity
>monster infusion
>better bosses
>slightly better level up system
>betterstory
>>341037703
Too bad the gameplay was so fucking shit that I dropped it after 10+ hours. Story was the only interesting thing about it but I won't stomach a game if I don't find the gameplay interesting at all.
>>341035397
Only physical attacks returned them to their original place.
If you followed with magic they would remain where they cast it. You could combine these to manipulate where your leader is.
With Sazh you could use his physical attacks to continuously backstep and then change to magic in order to keep him in place. This took him out of thousand needles range, and your party membets would generally follow you.
>>341037753
>a mostly linear series of linearly designed levels
>replacing a third party member with 3 gimped monsters with less utility
>i'll give you better bosses
>won't argue this one either, though I thought both level up systems were bad
>time travel is never a good story
>>341035764
your post is the 4c equivalent of "Thanks kind stranger for the reddit gold :) !"
>>341037990
Huh, I never knew that.
So I guess it is possible to position your party, as strange as that process seems.
>>341036635
>bothered to play through III
>couldn't be assed to play through V
absolutely disgusting
>>341037753
Wow, seriously? First you claim to have any kind of taste regarding narrative integrity and then you defend XIII-2 of all things?
>>341038104
>a mostly linear series of linearly designed levels
It was still better than in 13. Not great, but better.
>replacing a third party member with 3 gimped monsters with less utility
Really? I found them useful mostly because there were a lot of buffs/healing that Serah and Noel lacked. Also fully leveled up Commandos were fucking beasts.
>time travel is never a good story
I wasn't referring to time travel part. I just liked Noels and Caius' stories.
>>341038251
3 is fine. I have 5 sitting on my shelf.
>>341038303
I didn't say it was good. I said it was better than 13.
>>341038314
In regards to the story, I mainly just disliked how they treated the old characters.
>>341038408
In what possible way could XIII-2 ever be considered better than XIII plot-wise?Let me guess, Caius really resonated with you because you're a waifufag
Kill yourself type moon shitter
>>341038654
Yes, I really liked Noel and Caius. Everything else was pretty meh. Mostly because the time travel made absolutely no sense.
6 > 5 (= FFT) > 7 = 8 >> 9 = 10 = 12 > 11 > 14 > 13
Didn't play enough of 4 to get an opinion. Had the story spoiled for me. I felt it was way too linear in character progression/story.
9 is the comfiest FF. There are a lot of features that seemed lacking though.
8 represented a time when square tried new stuff and didn't give a shit. Drawing isn't badCARD is the best command in the game, seriously, if you are complaining about drawing, use card you fucking idiot. If BEST CARD GAME's random rule is making you cry, REFINE YOUR BAD CARDS
7 is the iconic FF experience. Great game.
6 is probably one of the most completely perfect RPGs you could ever play. The first half represented 'classic' FFs in how linear the story and progression was, while the later half represented an open world. Abilities are cool, 80 percent of the characters were actually fun and unique to use/buildsetzer gets a wholly awesome melee weapon in the last 5% of the gamefucking amazing. Rage has more options than a majority of entire games do nowdays.
5 is fantastic if you don't mind a little grind. BARE class progression by mastered jobs was fucking brilliant. Great dialog when you get around to actually hearing it. best gilgamesh.
12 is alright until mid-way through the game when you realize that you've done almost everything you're going to do for the rest of the game. Appreciated IZJS FF button. Most fun was using the samurai's random free black magic spell.
10 had an amazingly streamlined turn based battle system and afunsummon system, but most of the battles were pretty samey (hurr tidus > wolf, lulu > flan, wakka > bird, etc). Auron was about as cool as an edgy character could ever be.
>>341036635
Worst ranking I've seen so far, congrats
>>341038702
Don't get so triggered just because your favorite series has shitty writing. It's still okay to enjoy them.
Its entire first half is a 24 hour tutorial. Personally I thought Kingdom hearts 2 having a 2 hour one was bad enough, XIII took it to the extreme.
![Concetrationcamp+used+roll+picture+concetrationcamp+rolled+image+that+s+one+the+the+_0251c83bedb4ef51b1734b5d2b286f3c[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/0H7fpjn.png "Concetrationcamp+used+roll+picture+concetrationcamp+rolled+image+that+s+one+the+the+_0251c83bedb4ef51b1734b5d2b286f3c[1].png")
>>341013440
Linearity for the early game killed it for most people. I absolutely fucking loved the last quarter of the game though. Honestly eveything leading up to Orphan's Cradle and the whole ending sequence, Lightning's cheesy but inspiring speech, the whole "FUCK YOU HUMANS WHY ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ANYTHING BUT WE, THE LITERAL FUCKING GODS AREN'T?" shit was fucking great.I honestly think XIII is in my top 4 final fantasy'sI just wish they didn't have to beat the horse dead with the absolutely dogshite sequels
>>341039296
>literal gods
Someone needs to replay FF13
>>341013440
>lore is extraneous fluff
>Donut Steel Lightning (even though XIII's version of her is the most tolerable)
>not the fact that it is a hallway simulator but that it's OBVIOUS that it's a hallway simulator
>PRESS A TO WIN combat
>job classes are pointless since everyone has a class they are best at making experimenting null and void for meta's sake
>dumb story moments where the party does/uses cool shit once and ONLY once and then never again
>character speak in technobabble like we are supposed to understand
okay you know how in X the Al Bhed had their own language but you could learn it slowly in game and Rikku was bilingual? Think in XIII where everyone spoke in Al Bhed but the only way to translate it was to read about it in the pause menu outside of gameplay/cutscenes.
>Anything involving Snow
>Anything involving Vanille
>MUH MOMMY ISSUES
>WORST BIRTHDAY EVER
>the plot resolves by ignoring the plot
>>341039210
As if melty is any better.
>>341038986
I would rank 8 lower than 7 just because the lead female is much worse.
>>341016912
I played FF VIII after hearing noah rant about it and formed my own opinion. It's alright but the stat building and level up system is deceptive as fuck.
>>341040207
True. It isn't.
>>341040207
You mean as if "Type Moon" is any better, right? Because the Fate series has writing on par with the Final Fantasy series if not worse.
>>341018185
STEP INTO THE RAINBOW
FIND ANOTHER VIEW
>>341013440
>Takes about 16-20 hours just to get to the point where it stops teaching you stuff, and finally opens up.
>Hallways the entire way through with only a couple rare areas having one single side area with an item in it.
>Immediately after the open area the hallways resume for the rest of the game.
>Eidolons are made out to be these amazing things but you never use them in battle since their damage is so low and it's better to just Libra everything.
The only exception is Vanille's specifically hoping for Death to proc on an Adamantoise before you can actually fight it normally without breaking a sweat.
>Sazh, Fang, and maybe Vanille are the only characters you care about at all in the entire game, Sazh being the best one by far.
>Has no towns at all, and the one you stop at is just a line with maybe two people telling you anything before you end up getting chased again.
>Paradigms constantly require tinkering every 30 minutes for the first 20 hours due to all the party changes.
>You get more story in the datalogs than you do actually playing the game.
>Party members are dumb as bricks and refuse to use -ga spells despite everything being jumbled up and then chooses to do it ages later when they're all separated.
>Certain enemies can actually stunlock you to death.
Sahagins in chapter 14 I think(The red shifting place before the pope) came in a group of 5 or 6 and they kept doing the water slide, and by the time we'd recover we all got hit by another one. It was infuriating.
>Everything to do with the bike enemies and Dreadnoughts requiring several staggers just to kill yet they're common enemies who do barely any damage yet have huge HP and defense.
>>341014012
If you can look past the "tutorial" and all the annoying bits in between it's an okay game. I had a bunch of fun onGran Pulseand into the post game as well, it just takes forever to get to the point where it actually gets enjoyable. FFXIII-2 was way more fun, especially endgame.
I enjoy it. Best combat in the series in my opinion. Shame it took so long to get started
>>341040459
I feel bad for Nomura, constantly getting blamed for shit he had little to no involvement with.
>>341040405
Not that guy but what's wrong with Fate?
>>341038986
>The first half represented 'classic' FFs in how linear the story and progression was, while the later half represented an open world.
People say this about 6 all the time but piss and moan about 13 doing the exact same thing.
>>341040405
How are FF fans so defensive when it comes to writing of their favorite series? Get a grip. It's just a game. No need to get triggered.
>>341040684
The same kind of plot holes, asspulls and retarded characters that plague the Final Fantasy series.
>>341040973
Maybe you're the one who needs to get a grip fatefag.
>>341040459
>Sazh, Fang, and maybe Vanille are the only characters you care about at all in the entire game, Sazh being the best one by far.
>Fang
>a complete pos who would literally let millions of people die over her disgusting girlfriend
>>341040915
>no overworld
>can't backtrack
>no flying
>no NPCs
>"exact same thing :^)"
sure
>>341041286
>a complete pos who would literally let millions of people die over her disgusting girlfriend
there's nothing wrong with that
Pros:
>Nice visual.
The PC port looks nicer than most games on steam.
>Good soundtracks.
It took a different route than most FF but that wasn't a bad thing (like XII did, I still hate its OST).
Cons:
>Shit level up shittem
You can't unlock latter levels unless you BEAT THIS PART OF THE STORY. Really? Who thought that was a good idea? It was the pinnacle of shit design.
Moreover, you can only unlock 100% skills and shit when you beat the fucking game. I'm mad.
>Shit story and writing
Random terms were throwing at your face in the first few cutscenes. And this proceeds the same to the rest of the game. If you don't understand something? LOL check this in-game wiki!
Fuck that. I can appreciate if you want to do world-building by throwing around made up terms, but if you need to know what the hell are these terms to understand what is going on WHILE it is also the first time the term was mentioned, then it's shit writing, no contest.
>Meh characters
I don't hate them. But they feel flat. I don't want to do this but I have seen Visual Novel characters with more depth than most of them.
>Paradigm
This absolutely kills it. While I agree that most FFs are about pre-battle preparation. This whole system took it to another level of boring. Most boss fights consist of constant switching between 2-3 paradigms. It's not fun. It's repetitive.
Older FFs managed to do this without being so boring. I don't know how to explain it well but you can kinda get it.
>Limit break
I don't really know if you can call those moves limit breaks, beccause they are kinda underwhelming.
>Level design
Took you almost 20 hours of boring hallways to reach a fucking plain plateau. The plateau wasn't even that big.
Neutral factors:
Summon, Weapon, Mini games, etc. varied from average to decent. They don't really shine but I don't hate them.
Overall, it was a 6/10 game at best. People expected too much and it hurts.
>>341013440
It was a huge step in the wrong direction that the series was already heading in with FF10. More focus on flashy cinematics than actual interactivity.
Also why are you dumbasses still responding to the attention-whoring avatarfag?
>>341041627
>>Paradigm
>This absolutely kills it
Pretty much. That's why they completely revamped it in later games.
>>341041627
Loved the paradigm system. Put the focus on per-battle strategy rather than pre-battle strategy. I can understand a preference for the latter, but I loved how fast paced paradigm system could be.
>>341041627
>You can't unlock latter levels unless you BEAT THIS PART OF THE STORY. Really? Who thought that was a good idea? It was the pinnacle of shit design.
To be honest, I kind of liked it because it forces you to actually git gud instead of grinding yourself to victory. And you shouldn't even hit the cap if you know what to do.
> Most boss fights consist of constant switching between 2-3 paradigms
That was the point of the system. You need to adapt to every single move and situation the bosses throw at you. Only 2-3 though? If you utilize all 6 you get, the fights are much more interesting and fun. I'm not saying the system is perfect but it's still miles better than earlier games, except for X-2. That's some good shit on it's own.
I agree with everything else though.
>>341037753
>No linearity
>Implying the game is any better just because it shoves you in a closed boxed map
Whatever helps you sleep at night and for the record Final Fantasy is always linear, it's not fucking metroid.
>>341041523
did i forget to mention that those millions of people constituted the entire remaining human population
it would literally just be vanille and fang for the rest of eternity
she isn't just horrifically selfish, she's delusional
>>341036635
>Hated IV, VI and XII
>Didn't play V and XI two games with the best job system
>liked XIII
>Crisis core that high
Opinions and all but that's the shittest reaction list I've seen.
>>341013440
Hallway simulator. Its looks great it sounds great but the combat mechanic is not fun or good. The game plays itself while you get to "job change" mid battle.
I could talk about this game for probably 3 hours, all its merits and faults, but im at work jerking off while helping a patient so please excuse me.
Why do we hate Vanille again?
>>341038110I don't really think reddit is all that bad if you know how to filter, just like 4chan:^)
>>341042698
lying selfish cunt
oh wait you're talking about vanille not fang my mistake
lying cunt
>>341042382
If I have the choice to go direction A or direction B, I will like it more than if the game doesn't give me a choice at all. FF games don't do it so well but more choices are still more choices.
>>341039210
>Fatefag talking to anyone about shitty writing
top kek
>>341036635
>V, VI
>Bad
don't make it this easy for me to call you a garbage human with shit opinions
>>341013440
Just play it and find out.
>>341037958
all the early plot focused FF games were garbage
II, IV and VI
>>341043024
>Fatefag
>>341038182
The process can be summarized as
Git fucking gud
>>341036784
>>341037305
>>341037753
>>341037958
>>341038408
>>341038923
>>341039210
>>341040368
>>341040973
>>341042972
>>341043459
Fuck off you are giving arc a bad name you fucking avatarfag.
>>341044047
Ran a shit
>>341039825
no one wants to replay it.
>>341043708
The problem is that the game never tells you this and in fact the whole UI/setup implies that deliberate positioning is not possible.
>>341044568
>I needed more tutorials and more handholding from FFXIII
>>341044047
You can't stop me
>>341042507
I mean, compared to the brain dead sheeple living in Cocoon or the people who are fucked as l'cie or fal'cie or whatever anyways, just Fang and Vanille would be an improvement.
>>341044775
>le epic strawman
I'm saying they should've had tutorials about the positioning shit and passive role bonuses and buffing, and gotten rid of the useless and misleading "durr u need to press x to attack" ones.
>>341045150
>>341044047
Saber is better than Arc anyway.
Arc is (literally) older than Saber. Arc is busted.
>>341046076
Then people would have complained about those
It was obvious, not everything needs a big flashing tutorial
>>341033574
I agree, the battle system isn't as bad as people make it out to be, once you reach Gran Pulse. I just wish it didn't take twenty hours for that to happen.
>>341046887
Literally every FFXIII thread I've ever been in, I point out things like ATB refresh or the fact that debuffs stabilize the stagger guage and people are like wtf I didn't know that
Most people, quite understandably, write off the battle system possibly having any depth after it spends 5 hours bashing you over the head with basic concepts that are common to all JRPGs, hell, all games.
>>341046126
Arc is eternal
>>341047339
Yeah, most people are fucking morons, tell me something I don't know
It's why I can never take criticism of this game seriously
>>341047339
>mfw people think Ravager is the "mage class" and Commando is the "melee class"
>>341013440
Fights are boring as fuck, it doesn't get remotely good after you beat the game and run free in Paals.
>>341013440
1. Completes linear except for one section
2. Open world section is just a side quest area that seems like cut content
3. battle system is more automated than ff12
4. Snow and Hope are rage inducing characters
5. Story is retarded
>>341047815
>>341048134
It's really not their fault, though. XIII went out of its way to go back to pseudo-turnbased after the shitstorm from XII, only to completely upend a lot of the conventions from typical JRPGs.
It never gives any indication of deeper/emergent mechanics and actively goads people into thinking it's just another standard JRPG with it's idiotically simple tutorials and various UI cues.
It even lets you play in a more "traditional" tank-healer-dps style or treat ravagers like mages, commandos like warriors, etc. because the "difficulty" is based on giving enemies/bosses progressively higher amounts of HP, so the challenge comes not from surviving but decreasing your time-to-victory.
In other words, XIII goes out of its way to encourage players to play the game the wrong fucking way. It actually caters to JRPG noobs in the sense that it's easier to discover the real mechanics if you don't already have the usual stuff already ingrained.
>>341049378
So it's the game fault you're people are too dumb to look beneath the surface?
It's like complaining DMC doesn't exactly show you all the possible combos
>>341050162
Again, there's a difference between not showing you something and actively deceiving you.
Also RPGs and FFs in particular are much more tutorial-heavy than games like DMC because the primary engagement comes from immersion and worldbuilding, not experimenting with mechanics.
>>341050585
It's not actively deceiving you, the tutorial is just the basics, as it should be
>>341050957
People
>>341013625
>>341015031
>>341017149
>>341032771
>>341033856
>>341034298
>>341039248
are inclined to disagree with you
>>341050585
How is it deceiving you? If you experiment with the system(which you should do in any game) you'll see that some things are more effective than others.
If you just use COM-MED-SEN and wonder why the fuck everything takes so long and why is it so boring, why would you keep playing it that way? You would try out different things and see that there is much better, more engaging and fun way to play the game.
>>341051847
Who the fuck cares about what other people think
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion as long as that opinion isn't shoved down anyone's throat
If you say FFXIII is shit, I'll disagree with you but not much more
If you say I'm wrong in liking FFXIII I'll say you're a fucking idiot
>>341052830
ffxiii is objectively a terrible game. You are wrong in liking it.
>>341022032
linearity is expected in story telling, but not game play (in RPGs). If the thing had some puzzles or dungeons or any reason to veer off of the beaten path (or anything to veer off to, anyway) it would be a lot better.
Basically, you expect certain things to be linear (action games,platformers), so it isn't an issue when it is. When something you don't expect to be a straight line start to finish is a straight line start to finish, it's a little disappointing.
Also, to address the topic itself, the story is fucking batshit and makes no sense as it is presented without doing a ton of extra reading.
>>341054289
Sure thing trashman
>>341017149
>I've seen trains make more turns
10/10
>>341054547
I don't go into games with preconceived expectation about them except the basics
I went into FFXIII thinking
>I hope the bosses look cool
>I hope the graphics are good
>I hope the CGI is awesome
>I hope the combat is fun
>I hope the music is great
That's it
Nothing more
I played it after playing Bayonetta and I actually noticed some similarities
>sweet I'm beating up more mechanical demigods
Also Lightning did a lot of backflips, I liked it
I adore XIII-2 music.
>>341055936
I liked the combat, but that was basically all. When I say one has an expectation for a certain game to not be linear, I don't mean that one expected FFXIII itself to be nonlinear, I mean that people expect RPGs in general to be nonlinear (at least they did at one time).
>>341013440
I want more snow bara art pls
>>341055965
https://youtu.be/hEUOOgNzOv4
This is the best chocobo theme in the series
If they ever make another Chocobo Racing game this better be in it
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VQiyz4g.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>341056807
that was fucking awful
>>341013440
>started playing FF 10 a few weeks ago
>literally just as linear as 13 in terms of the maps
>everything is a hallway up until you reach the Calm Lands, which still doesn't have as much to do as Gran Pulse does in 13
>>341056625
I didn't, I actually don't care much for open world games, they're just a novelty that wears off after 1 or 2 hours and turns into tedium very fast
Especially the traveling around the open world tends to become boring
Then again I loved Saints Row IV, but that's mostly because with superpowers they actually made the open world fun to run around in
>>341056797
Is that Hope's hair I see in the bottom left?
Lightning's gonna be mad
>>341056807
You posted the wrong one, ya donut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZc-pzCKgjE
>>341057494
no it's awesome
>>341057742
it's good but the chocobo isn't crazy enough
>>341052670
>If you just use COM-MED-SEN and wonder why the fuck everything takes so long and why is it so boring, why would you keep playing it that way?
Because it works, and it's annoying but not broken.
There's nothing wrong with a difficulty curve, anon. In fact, before you were born lots of games had this thing called "design" where they would progressively increase the challenge in small, but meaningful, ways. Sometimes they even gave you hints or tutorials, but it all ultimately contributed to a better play experience. Nowadays everything is either press X to win or tryhard "git gud" edginess a la Dark Souls.
