Why is this the one game nobody ever seems to talk about? I remember when it came out, everyone was always like
>"This game is amazing! It's the best Final Fantasy ever! It's the best PS2 game of all time!!"
But now I see nobody talking about it. Everyone always talks about how good 4/6/7/9 is, or how bad 8/13 is, but I never see anyone discuss THIS game.
I distinctly remember people talking about how shit the gameplay was.
And Vaan needing a shirt.
>>340602835
Because it's complete shit.
>>340602835
Because Xenoblade made for a better FFXII
>>340602835
It's was okay, but completely unmemorable. The characters were bland, the theme was ham-fisted, the story was muddled, and the music was all ambient shit. Even the voice acting is unmemorable. The locations are all boring and the battle system is pretty generic. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't outstanding either. It's the plain oatmeal with no sugar of the Final Fantasy series.
You will be able to talk about the game once it comes to PC.
Just like with FF13.
>>340602835
I do, it's the only ff I like because of the gameplay. The music suck tho.
Didn't you get the memo
/v/ don't discuss good games
>>340602835
Really? I remember it being massively hated when it came out. I didn't think it was that bad but it's not my favorite of the series (I think 7, 9 and 10 were way better)
This guy >>340602946 sums it up pretty nicely.
The story was also downright boring.
Sidequests were fun but in desperate need of some sort of quest-tracker or indicator of where to go.
I remember one hunting sidequest where all the information about where to find said mark was "go west, if you hit [InsanelyFarAway], you've gone too far".
I don't care what FF12-apologists say.
That's not good quest-design.
you're joking, right?
everyone was shitting on the game for "playing itself" and the licence board when it came out
>>340602835
Why is that shills can't ever be subtle? Is it because they are surround by literal shit in the nearby streets?
>>340602835
12 normal was eh
12 international was better in every way
Vann and Penelo being the outsider looking in through the window of the story wasn't needed and their character development is pretty much dead halted on the most idiotic level possible. Vann being the worse of the two given he's the leading man in a world where he's pretty much a total autistic faggot that no one would actually tolerate past him being a mongoloid thief.
>>340603216
>The music suck tho.
Pleb
>>340603510
>shills
>the game is from the ps2 era
You need to be 18 to post on 4chan.
>>340603338
>FF12
>good
>>>/trash/
>>340603703
>he doesn't know
How about literally fuck off?
>>340603092
xenoblade was terrible, at least in the gameplay department
it had a better cast and story though
>Basch was originally supposed to be the main character
>Japanese test audiences felt he was too masculine, couldn't relate
>Hastily write in Vaan, which is why he is completely inconsequential to the story, yet is the man character
The game is garbage. It was the very first Final Fantasy I ever stalled on. The last Final Fantasy I ever played, too.
>>340602835
people talk about this game all the time. It even has memes.
>>340603703
I think he's referring to the HD remaster coming out next year.
>>340602835
Because nobody liked it? Are you from Bizarro-/v/?
>>340603703
>>340603731
>>340603771
shh...don't do his job for him.
>>340603758
>Japanese test audiences felt he was too masculine, couldn't relate
Was the test audience full of teen girls or twink faggots or something?
I find FF12 as an utterly frustrating experience.
There is a lot I like about 12, but Vaan and the obviously hacked up story that was paced together from a different incarnation of the game, and some of the ultimate whatever moves you can do in combat that alone fuck up any idea of balance in the game just kill me.
I like the setting, the judges were cool as fuck, the combat and playing it like you were playing every roll in an MMO was kinda neat.
I wish the original director of FF12 (the guy who made vagrant story) was allowed to stay to the end.
>>340603731
People were making threads and saying the same retard garbage before remaster announcement, you mouth breathing mongoloid. 12 is a regular debate every 3ish weeks because every post is a repost of a repost of a repost.
>>340602835
People actually talk a lot about FF12, but mainly because the game is divisive. You won't get massive dick sucking like FF7 gets or DRAWING SUCKS hate the way FF8. Also, I suspect a lot of haters never really got far into FF12.
>>340603703
>hasn't heard about the HD remake
>>340603758
>too masculine
Is this a real problem for Japanese men?
Like, men can't relate to men that are too masculine?
I know the Japs usually aren't seen as the most testosterone-filled bunch, but this seems like such a weird complaint.
I would have totally understood it if they complained that Basch was too old and thus they had problems relating to him, and Vaan was much closer to their age group though.
>>340603846
Nope, just the average Japanese schlub. Japan's birth rates have dropped through the floor, the women don't want the men because they're all too obsessed with their body pillows and their hentai to get jobs or care about seeking wives. The Japanese are even worse with the feminization of men than post-feminist Western men.
FFXII sucks though
>>340603908
I really wonder how the reception is going to turn now with Zodiac Age. Will it bring back people who were too young to appreciate 12 after 10? Will it point out combat system isn't actually as bad as people want to remember it? Shiiieeeet, we don't know.
>>340603846
he's talking out of his ass
OH
I get it now. We just get like 10 of you shill fucks in one thread and you circle jerk each other.
>>340602835
Its a single player MMO, so it's automatically a bad game.
"Best final fantasy ever" was a side effect of people being thrilled it was an MMO because they were early MMO players.
>>340604017
have you never heard of Nier?
>>340603908
FF8 had many other problems besides the drawing magic.
I got about 13.5 hours into FF12 before quitting because it bored the fuck out of me, but I didn't exactly hate it the way I did FF8 or FF13. I hear the story is really good though, I can't really judge it since I didn't get far enough.
I really like it
At first it was awkward because I have never play something like that (don't really play lots of MMO) but I get used to the battle after awhile
I never play the original so maybe IZJS did improve the game a lot. I like the atmosphere and overall theme of the game
Going in Zertinan Caverns and Feywood for the first time.. man that was some shit
>>340602835
how new are you
really
>>340604017
>Is this a real problem for Japanese men?
yes. have you seen what japs look like? they don't like muscular, large, etc men
>>340604045
>The Japanese are even worse with the feminization of men than post-feminist Western men.
That's not really it. In Japan's case it's a reactionary thing to a slave life society expects you to lead in order to be seen as respectable member of said society. Problem is these take it too far to the other side by being completely useless pieces of shit.
>>340603465
Yea I know right I want the quest design where the map shows me exactly where to go so I can just grab 10 quests not read anything and walk to the closest icon on the map.
>>340604158
FF12 literally has no story until the last couple hours of the game.
Then it's pretty good, but not enough to excuse the first 40 hours of wandering through copypaste deserts. It's like a fucking Moses simulator.
>>340604243
>the Japs are still working 12 hours a day because they think otherwise glorious nippon will collapse in on itself
How can an entire nation still be so fucking retarded?
>>340603885
>>340604009
of a repost, of a repost, of a repost, of a repost of another remake.
12 has been reposted on actual debate every few weeks and now that the remake has been announced let's just bump that repost number up from every three weeks to every three days until it's released then back to every three weeks. /v/ is just full of shit discussions of reposting opinions that are not the posters.
This remake bullshit though is becoming the new cancer, rather then create new IPs or further the series they rather remake old games ruin the shit out of them in some cases and then walk away with our time and money. This is Adam Sandler level of fucked that SquareEnix is getting on.
>>340604068
>Will it bring back people who were too young to appreciate 12 after 10?
Mechanical differences aside, I think this was a BIG deal of why the then new generation didn't like FFXII.
>>340604198
>>340604395
>too young to appreciate 12 after 10
too young to appreciate a game which came out later than a game you appreciated?
how can you even evaluate what anon was trying to say?
>>340604334
Yeah I figured that. I'll probably just watch the cutscenes on youtube some day.
Name at least two shounen anime ("for young boys", not young adults), with mostly adult people talking about and doing nothing but adult boring things in a medieval generic as fuck boring setting, that sold fucktons and went down in history as a masterpiece.
Because that was supposed to be the FF demographic. They most likely thought
>Oh hey people like our SIDE PROJECTS Vagrant Story and FFT, maybe we can let that stuff drip onto the mothership series
They were wrong
>>340604017
Half the time, overtly muscular/masculine men are flanderized in anime/manga and portrayed as literal faggots.
>>340604574
Stop for a second and think about what you wrote there.
>>340604672
yes i rephrased what he wrote. the sentence is not intelligible.
>>340604629
It did sold fuckton though
>>340602835
>use Ivalice for your setting
>instead of a fun sky pirate adventure with Basch as the MC, Balthier, Fran, a moogle juggler, a nu mou mage, a bangaa monk, and a seeq thief, we get an ungodly boring story, a literally who MC, and a party of all boring humans and a human with rabbit ears
Why even bother with Ivalice then, Square?
I liked the game a lot overall. The best way to play it was max speed and no pause for the most intense experience.
I might be autistic but I liked grinding in that game. I like the story for the most part just wish there was more of it, it felt really sparse story wise at times. All the characters where pretty good its just we didn't see too many cut scenes or dialogue between themselves.
Also give van a shirt
>>340604253
That wasn't really my point.
I don't mind that quests don't hold my hand and give me a nice arrow pointing to the creature in question, but if you're going to convey the information solely through text then at least convey it WELL.
Remember how WoW used to have each quest be half fluff and the other half detailed instructions on how to find the objective?
I FF12 you got two lines. Tops.
post fran
>>340604605
Except I'm not even remotely exaggerating. It's not like there's minimal story. There is literally ZERO story for the first 90+% of the game. Not a single character has any advancement, and not a single event happens.
>>340602835
Its shit, thats why.
>>340604638
Weird, isn't it?
What exactly is seen as the male ideal in Runeland?
>>340604629
>dude what if instead of having fun side games like the motorcycle chase and Triple Triad we had nothing
What are you talking about? You guys hadI'M CAPTAIN BASCH
>Basch is wearing that stupid short pants the whole game
Fucking hell
>>340602835
The only thing I enjoyed about the game was the monster hunting and even that became tedious towards the end.
>>340604992
The protagonist never puts on a shirt, and you think anyone gives a shit that Basch is wearing shorts in the fucking desert?
>>340602835
>8 is bad
When will this meme end?...
>>340604856
Hence why I said I'll just watch the cutscenes. I already know full well that the gameplay is definitely not for me, so it's not worth slogging through hours of that bullshit to get to the good parts of the story. At least if I watch it online the boring parts go by a lot quicker.
>>340605094
When people get good taste.
>>340605094
Triple Triad is the only non-bad part of FF8.
Because it's a meme. "The internet told me" basically. 8, 12, XIII are nowhere as bad as people paint them, but it must feel good trying to act like a game raped you and your family.
An example of meme opinion: >>340605215
>>340604198
>>340604449
I miss the days when webcomics were actually funny and not agenda-pushing drivel.
>>340605297
>waaaaaah stop bullying my favorite game you guys!
Cry more 8fag.
>>340605297
13 is abysmal.
I have never played a Final Fantasy game that got quite as downright uninteresting as Final Fantasy 13.
My usual complaint about a game is that it's not "fun enough" for my standard. FF13 wasn't fun AT ALL.
It got slightly better in the sequels but at that point I was already out.
>>340605215
>>340605371
Nice meme
>>340604045
Oh please, the demographic crises hitting Japan is happening in most of the developed world. Germany's birth rate is pretty close or even lower than Japan according to some statistics. The only reason why its more pronounced in Japan is because they don't have a huge immigrant and minority population.
>>340604198
>Xbox controller for a PS2 game
>>340605371
Nowhere in my post i've ever said 8 is my favorite game, but I'm glad I triggered you.
>>340605445
Oh but I agree that XIII has loads of problems. But, especially after playing X like 10 days ago, the amount of hypocrisy ramping in the fanbase is beyond redemption.
>>340602835
You don't remember htat.
FF12 is and always was shit.
>>340602835
Are you a kid pretending you were alive back then, or are you just pretending you were into FF back in the day? XII was not well received at release. It was many years later when the fan club developed.
FF has a bit of a niche mentality, even though it is not really a niche series. XII was doomed to be hated by the fans due to how much it changed the series, yet still being presented as a mainline FF instead of a side game like FFT. Good or bad, XV will be hated at release just like XII for that very same reason.
>>340605536
It's true that X mostly gets a free pass due to nostalgia but it is arguably less flawed than XIII. At least X got the turn based combat right after a full solid decade of that ATB trash, and it had blitzball while XIII had nothing.
>>340605536
I'll admit openly that 10 wasn't very good. There are many better FFs than 10.
However 13 tried to build on what 10 did: linearity.
And I know, saying that 13 is a fucking line is a meme by this point, but it really fucking is though.
And that is only a very small portion of everything wrong with FF13.
I stand by the fact that FF13 has the highest sheer quantity of bad design choices I've ever seen in a video game.
>>340602835
because its the strongest and weakest game at the same time. it has the best mechanics but decided to slap them away behind the mmo style gameplay and gambits that make it so you dont need to even push buttons.
no wait, this is /v/, it's probably because of the characters
>>340605648
>XV will be hated at release just like XII for that very same reason
Considering that the average comment is "no turn based combat == no buy", this is pretty spot on.
>>340604765
At launch.
And got a TERRIBLE fan reception because of it.
>>340602835
the gambit system was good, and the game looked great for a PS2 game
not much else to say
>>340604253
>someone dislikes [thing]
>GASP that must mean they looooove [extreme opposite of thing]
>instead of working to find a new, better solution, let's just embroil ourselves in endless bickering about which of two terrible [thing]s is worse
this is whywe can't have nice [thing]s
>>340605128
The gameplay is all that's decent. The story is bad and boring.
There was a single cool moment in the game in my opinion and then it abruptly ends.
>>340605772
>mmo style gameplay and gambits that make it so you dont need to even push buttons.
those ARE the mechanics of XII kek
>Gambit makes so the game plays by itself
Besides the obvious convenience of not having to order stuff that you would do anyway, why not simply disable it?
If you are playing a game with a difficulty slider, do you only play at the easiest setting because it's stupid not to do so?
>>340605536
>>340605730
>>340605756
10 was good though. The story was unique and entertaining and the gameplay was fun with stuff to do.
13 on the other hand.
>>340605779
Honestly it feels like an overwhelming majority of games made today are ARPG's. Even if they turn out to be great games, I still want some damn diversity, so it hurt finding out a turn based series was jumping on the over populated ARPG bandwagon.
I'm still probably gonna try it since I liked the feel the latest demo gave me, but god damn am I burning out big time on that fucking genre...
>>340606000
I still want to check it out anyway, just for curiosity's sake.
Also trips confirm.
>>340606025
I really really like the gambit system
Though I can see why no other games did it
Its literally made for programmers
Feels so good man
>>340606025
because fiddling around with options is too hard for some
there are people who never even knew you could adjust the battle speed or set the battle system on Wait mode in ATB FFs
>>340606089
>Stuff to do
You have a line to follow with no deviations for 35 hours, unless you count Blitzball as a fun diversion.
Then it opens up, the the sidequesting consists of either the worst and most rage-inducing minigames ever (thunders, chocobo racing, butterflies) or the coliseum main quest, that has you grinding like a retard in order to grind like a retard. And then there are the dark aeons, which require you to grind like a retard.
>>340602835
Square Enix betrayed Matsuno AND us. One of Matsuno's friends wouldn't even touch the game because it wasn't Matsuno's original vision, and i almost feel like I've disrespected him by playing it as far as I have (just got Zodiac).
>>340606000
which moment anon
>>340606263
The butteflies weren't that bad though. Certainly not as bad as the lightning dancing.
Played the everloving fuck out of FF12 on PS2 and I will play the everloving fuck out of the HD Remaster on PS4.
By faaar, my favorite FF game.
I only hope you can chose the original levelsystem instead of the seperate classes they introduced in the nippon re-release.
So what are the actual worse games in the series?
I'd say X-2 is the worst in the series.
>>340606191
Then I recommend playing it. It's not terrible, it's just not amazing and for that it's ashit game would not buy.
Really htough, watching it through youtube just seems like a waste of your time. The story is seriously lacking any substance.
If you do want to watch something just watch the cutscenes with Fran, she was the only interesting character alongside Balthier.
>>340606352
When Fran opens up the magical gate to her homeland and when she translates some text in that end dungeon. Everything else was so uninteresting and uninspired it's not even funny.
Can any of you even think of another cool cutscene?
>>340602835
Why do we need these constant "why is nobody talking about this game anymore" threads? It always sounds like a passive-aggressive way to ask people why a game is bad.
>>340605536
>b-b-but X
Let's see
>can backtrack
>can input commands for everyone instead of controling one character and spamming auto battle
>can switch characters
>Half of the story isn't told through a datalog
>mini games
>has shops and NPCs to interact with
>best equipment customization in the series
>>340602835
I played it on a friends console for an hour and felt like I went exactly nowhere, was stuck in all this intro to the story shit and the gameplay I did experience wasn't that interesting.
I didn't like FF13 enough to finish it either.
FF really died for me after 10. FF10 was the last of the vintage, magnum opus FFs. The rest have been desperate attempts at keeping the archaic style of RPG gameplay alive when the rest of the world has moved on from it.
They never change it to be different enough to be interesting for fear of offending their existing fans.
>>340606218
>literally made for programmers
COBOL is the easiest programming language I have ever worked with in my career. It is so simple to use that I despise it. Creating a program in COBOL brings me no joy whatsoever. Gambits make COBOL look like C. Fuck Gambits. They are not made for programmers.
Are you one of those people that picked up programming because you figured you could get a job doing practically nothing all day for decent pay? Do you not enjoy creating complex algorithms? Did linked lists and the sort not get your dick hard when you were first learning to program?
>>340606595
>The rest have been desperate attempts at keeping the archaic style of RPG gameplay alive
what? it's the exact contrary, they make their combat systems more and more real time
>>340606121
XV was an action RPG since 2006.
FF12 is the black sheep for trying something new and being at the end of the era of ps2
Its great though. Music is great, great sidequests. The gimmick of "Vaan isn't the MC he just along for the ride" can be annoying but the entire plot is ignoreble even though the guest characters are all very useful.
Mechnically the game has a lot of depth, coding wise I mean. And the game has such a fan base that people found out how to manipulate the game engine to make rare chests spawn and give the item. Which is really cool imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-sx1fUEuBw
>>340602835
One of my favourites, the sheer amount of lore and world building was great to get lost in, plus perhaps the best VA job of that whole console generation.
Filling in that bestiary was crack to me.
>>340606805
ARPGs existed well before 2006, and turn based has been on a rapid decline since well before then too. The current state of gaming may be worse than it was before, but it isn't something new.
Had the best placesFuck this hunt though
>>340606571
But I don't want to suffer through the tedious gameplay though. The story is the only part of it that I haven't fully explored yet so I want to see for myself if it's at least any better than the rest of the game.
>>340606592
>can backtrack
Yes! Let's go back to Kilika and do... absolutely nothing.
>>can input commands for everyone instead of controling one character and spamming auto battle
Attack flying with Wakka.
Attack lupine with Tidus.
Attack elementals with Lulu.
Attack armored with Auron.
For 99% of the game, this is what you play.
>can switch characters
>Having a party composition that's not auron, tidus, wakka and rarely bringing out lulu
>why
>Half of the story isn't told through a datalog
I'll give you this. XIII had amazing lore behind it but they do nothing with the world. Fuck.
>mini games
They are bad mini games. I've heard lots of people do enjoy blitzball but I loathe soccer and I loathe action/rpg soccer even more.
>has shops and NPCs to interact with
There are shops in XIII
>best equipment customization in the series
It's a basic system where you can add perks to a weapon. It's good, but nothing special. And it requires too much grinding.
>>340606571
The dawn shard incident was kinda interesting imo
Giruvegan and the truth about the Occuria was kind of anticlimactic in the visceral sense but provided a radically new perspective on Archades' actions
The whole thing that happened at the top of the Pharos at Ridorana was pretty emotionally charged
Also Gabranth's death sceneFran and Balthier are really the only likable characters of the main cast though
I never played it, but I was told it was very similar in style and gameplay to FFXI (which I played). Basically, like a single player MMO.
>>340606804
from a final fantasy perspective yes, it's made huge strides and innovations.
from the rest of the worlds perspective they're chasing their tail down a dead end corridor and talking about how great their combat system is when they're decades behind even generic games.
FF is one of the worst offenders of settling on a successful formula in all of vidya. The evolutionary branch of Final Fantasy diverged during the SNES era and they're the only ones following this idea of FF games instead of modernizing like the rest.
Except you know. shit tier rpg maker games. which they're leagues ahead of but its not worth bragging about.
>>340606994
>trying something new
MMORPG style combat wasn't something new anon. It is a style of combat that lets the user focus less on timing and positioning, thus giving them time to communicate with their teammates using a keyboard.
It would have been fine if they focused on fixing the inherent problems with MMORPG style combat, but instead they made the problem worse by removing your need to be active in a fight with Gambits.
XII is hated for a good reason. Don't act like it is just hated due to being different.
>>340603746
>xenoblade
>good story
Pseudophilosophical bullshit with a plot twist every other cutscene is not a good story.
>>340602835
Because people who've never played it still shitpost about it ignorantly. Like anyone who says it's an offline mmo because it has big areas or is similar in design to FFXI. When FFXI is the only MMO it's similar to because, gasp, it's a final fantasy mmo with final fantasy based atb combat.
It's a very good game, the story that is there is ok but you can tell when Matsuno left they just decided to wrap it up with what they had. The content is huge. Autism faggots cry about muh zodiac spear but that shit is irrelevant. IZJS is a much better version but most cocksuckers won't emulate it. At least the HD will be IZJS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bWotLKqo
>that redone music during the gameplay footage of the HD Remaster's trailer
Sakimoto's soundtrack is sex to my ears
This is the game I see most discussed here, and not just because of the remake.
>>340602835
Because it's so good we don't want shitposters talking shit and idiots ruining it to "belong". It's a good game and should be left as it is
>>340607214
But the "trend" of ARPGs being more common only started after dark souls came out. Turn based is abundant on handheld.
>>340608134
Why the hell would anyone consider Dark Souls an action rpg is beyond me.
>>340607895
I'm not sure how I feel about IZJS. I haven't played it (played the original version), but the changes in it make me uncomfortable. Part of the appeal of XII for me was how free the game is; I have complete control over my characters. IZJS taking that away bothers me. Sure, it makes the characters less homogeneous, but it does so by taking control away from the player.
>>340606804
For the last twenty years or so they've been at this weird point where they try to change the combat system up but still give facets of turn based that just don't work with what they want to try to do
Then X came out and the combat was actually pretty fun for once before they threw all of it away with the boring shit that was 12 and 13
>>340607501
>Yes! Let's go back to Kilika and do... absolutely nothing
to collect the al behd primers, hunt monsters for the monster arena, get everyone's ultimate weapon and power it up, see if the NPCs have something new to say
>Attack flying with Wakka.
Attack lupine with Tidus.
Attack elementals with Lulu.
Attack armored with Auron.
For 99% of the game, this is what you play
and it's better than
auto battle
auto battle
auto battle
auto battle for 99% of the game
>Having a party composition that's not auron, tidus, wakka and rarely bringing out lulu
>why
because I fucking can and want to?
>They are bad mini games
for you
>There are shops in XIII
at save points, whoop-dee-fucking-doo
>It's a basic system where you can add perks to a weapon.
and that's why it works, unlike XIII's
>>340608330
13 gets shit a lot upon, but if you don't overlevel it has a really great combat system. Yes, there's the "lol autobattle" meme, but it really is a misconception. For most characters it's just like pressing the standard "attack" button and you absolutely don't want to use it for support/debuff.
The various passive buffs to stagger/defense work really great and it's a shame 13's combat truly only shines while doing the optional content in Gran Pulse that most people ignored.
XIII could be one of the greatest, too bad the level and encounter design was truly lackluster.
>>340607785
still better than XII's
>>340607756
>MMORPG style combat
Name an MMO similar to it besides FFXI
>>340608223
Because its not turn based
>>340608282
It takes away no control. What it does do is give you focus and a reason to use more than 3 characters. Though honestly a melee + white mage + whoever can still cover most content if you're lazy
CLAIM YOUR MUSICFU
https://youtu.be/ZMYisFOaz1s
>>340606994
The music is objectively average, the sidequests have no stories, and Vaan IS the MC. He talks more than any other character.
>>340608515
>>340607501
>hating blitzball
>comparing blitzball to soccer
fuck son
blitzball could have been a game on its own and I would have bought it
>>340607895
Auto attacks based on proximity is a major part of MMORPGs. The aggro system is a major part of MMORPGs. The ability to move during combat, yet positioning having little to no effect on whether attacks hit or miss is a usual flaw of MMORPGs. I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see where XII separates itself in a meaningful way from MMORPG style combat.
Also, I played XII on release and beat the game. I wouldn't hate the game so much if they didn't make the foolish mistake of adding in Vaan and Penelo. I loved Balthier, and Cid was probably my favorite Cid in all the FFs. Too bad he didn't have more air time.
>>340603746
>xenoblade gameplay was terrible
i'm loving it right now. so much variety with the teammates.obviously i get that they're all specifically good at one role; i was stating that it's fun to switch it up every now and then as you progress further in the game
>>340608946
>blitzball could have been a game on its own and I would have bought it
Dude, I know lots of people love it but I personally find it shit. It's slow, incredibly clunky and to be honest if I wanted to play a sport game I would have bought a sport game, not a jrpg.
I know lots of people loved it but I have no idea why. Fucking sphere breakers was better for fuck's sake.
>Story
Meh, too political, didn't explore the lore laid out in the bestiary or delve into the Occuria enough
>Music
Not bad but not a single memorable track in entire game. Rabanaste worst town theme in FF series
>Characters
All are shit apart from Fran and Balthier
>Environment
Fuck the locations were good. Phon coast looked legit beautiful
>Overall
Great game, but weak FF due to crap story, music and characters which let it down.
>>340608725
Refer to >>340608967
I don't even need to mention all those things though. You are saying the game is like XI. XI is an MMORPG with MMORPG style combat.
>>340608223
Because it has action combat and is an RPG.
>>340607969
Is it me or is the lighting slightly improved in this? Its very subtle, but certain aspects about the lighting seem different from the original, but in a good way.
>>340607501
Obvious shit taste detected
The only two things I hope make it in to the remaster is the option to use the original licenseboard (because I like maxing everyone out like a noodle gargling autist not be locked in by set classes) and having the ability to change the camera control that was stuck on inverted on PS2.
Any other changes and additions is just gravy.
I am seriously hype as fuck for the remaster.
>>340608967
>The aggro system is a major part of MMORPGs.
The aggro system is also irrelevant in 12, it's more of a "this is the person I'm about to hit" warning and they jump around pretty randomly
>The ability to move during combat
This was part of them making it a seamless transition. There wouldn't be a point of taking out the combat transitions if they locked you in place anyway. And outside of being able to move it's still just standard FF atb
It's an FF but you can move around and without random battles. It's chrono trigger without a battle transition.
>>340602835
don't believe ondore's lies
>>340609291
I am now going to writer a my tastes > your tastes reply.
No, seriously, if there has to be a prototypical overhyped final fantasy, it has to be X. It's a very mediocre jrpg and while not particularly bad it has nothign that elevates it from anything else in the genre. Any Atelier, the call of duty of jrpgs, is more interesting an unique than X could ever aspire to be.
>>340609178
Name a single MMO besides XI. XI uses ATB and plays like any FF from 4-9. The reason it plays like XI is because they're both final fantasy. I'm sure you can't grasp this but fuck
>>340609071
I would've hated it less if it gave you a pause option to override the retarded teammates' A.I., but then you could topple everyone too easily
still, I hate not being in control of everyone and FFXII at least had gambits to compromise
>>340608515
>to collect the al behd primers
But you can't even do that without an overpowered "fuck you" boss blocking the way.
>>340606592
>best equipment customization in the series
No that's VIII
>>340609581
This guy gets it. Surprisingly, VIII has quite lots of crafting but most people missed it because of
>Hurr, draw
>>340602835
It's going to be talked about more since the SUPER HYPER TURBO HD REMIX CHAMPIONSHIP VERSION EDITION was announced
The game plays itself if you set up proper gambits.
It plays like a single player MMO.
There's a lot of dull backtracking and running across environments.
The characters are simply not that memorable, and were mostly annoying.
The story was simply not that memorable, and was mostly annoying.
I actually really liked the Gambit system - Coding my own personal AI is something I haven't done in any other game.
>>340609581
>No that's VIII
You don't even have any equipment besides your weapons, what the fuck are you on about? All your stats are managed by dumping magic into them.
>>340602835
>gets a HD remaster
>1.2 million views on a single channel already
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bWotLKqo
Because /v/ is a tiny echo chamber.
XIII being bad had (almost) nothing to do with linearity.
The worldbuilding is practically nonexistent. I know NOTHING about the culture or people of XIII except that they're all apparently irredeemable sheeple. There's some stuff about Pulsians in the datalog but even that doesn't actually talk about anything substantive.
All of the characters are complete shit. Sazh is the only one who is remotely likable/relatable, but he has no real arc to speak of and honestly isn't all that plot relevant. Hope stops being a whiny kid but no reason is ever really given for this, and he just kind of stops existing as a character after his little speech in the ark. Snow literally never learns to grow up or fully takes responsibility for his actions but gets a free pass because everything is solved by a L I T E R A L deus ex machina in the end. Lightning has a bunch of lame, hamfisted "revelations" but never gets a chance to exhibit how she's evolved as a person, plus one of the key scenes where she realizes she was "wrong" is actually one of the few times she's actually right(the birthday scene). Fang is a complete pos who would literally let millions of people die over her disgusting girlfriend, and Vanille is...Vanille.
I have analyzed the SHIT out of all the other Final Fantasy games and even though they're sometimes told poorly or awkwardly, ALL of them have some central theme/s that they're trying to convey. XIII is the sole exception to this. Again, there's no worldbuilding so no meaning there; the characters all suck and undergo barely any development so no meaning there; and the world is saved through "the goddess'(who we never meet or even hear of aside from extremely vague allusions in the datalog) mercy" so there's no meaning there either.
So just from a plot/worldbuilding standpoint, which is the key pillar of any FF, it's already shit. There's also issues with the scenario design, pacing, music, and art direction, but I'm already at the limit
>>340609581
>8
>equipment customization
It's human customization.
>>340602835
Should I emulate it or wait for the remaster to come around? Which one is better combat system and so on?
>>340609858
Soldiers are not humans. They are the tools of the Garden. Man-made machines that only exist to obey.
Junction that medusa spell now to your foot.
not liking this game is objectively the wrong opinion
I can understand why people don't like it, but it is overall my favourite FF game (and the first one I really played to any extent). Something about it just felt so rich and diverse. I went and played X after it and I was just so disappointed.
People who can't appreciate XII's music trigger me the most
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySrSIrO_Cs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwrs5G4UM_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAD58HCB-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIkYOR5kgxM
The Theme of the Empire I've had memorized and would sometimes hum to myself whenever I'm walking somewhere important for fun.
>>340609573
the compromise for me was realizing i didnt care about the ai because i wasnt controlling them. if i wanted to play a certain character; i switched to them. i never really cared about my teammates, i just did what i wanted.
>>340609581
Even IX had better customization than VIII.
>>340610240
What a bland and forgettable soundtrack, especially when compared to other FF games.
>>340609775
I think he's talking about how you can junction magic onto weapons
You can junction a variety of status effects and magic damage types
>>340609761
>>340606713
I think it's less like coding and somehow below scripting...
FFXII was most definitely ahead of its time. In 2005, people wanted another FFX, not FF Matsuno Fantasy History. But look at what type of fantasy people enjoy today and XII would've been a huge success. Hell even for FFXV, they're trying to force in some aspects like that to pander to current trends.
Maybe the remaster will change how people percieve FFXII. People shat on it back in 2005 for the wrong reasons.
>>340610240
congratulations you chose three of the only tracks that aren't horribly muddled/overorchestrated as fuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOoyawxVDJM
best track in the game and it barely qualifies because it's only in the credits
I didn't enjoy 12 because I didn't think it was that fun to play, the license board was fucking retarded, and everything reminded me of the Phantom Menace
>>340610584
>I think he's talking about how you can junction magic onto weapons
You can do that in VII too. Hell in VII you can also junction status ailments.
>>340609761
International version had a fast forward button also, so this remake offers what beyond maybe some uncompressed sound files and textures.
Something a modder with few dozen hours on their hands could have done then they'll slap remake or remaster on it. It will end up as bad as the X/X-2 remakes/remasters and that was the same shit just uncompressed sound files and some shaped up textures that actually ended up looking worse then the originals.
>>340610447
In terms of FF composers:
Yoko Shimomura>Hitoshi Sakimoto>Masashi Hamauzu>Takeharu Ishimoto>Nobuo Uematsu
Uematsu songs are BORING. Sakimoto's tracks all have soul to them and help bring out that military feel. His usage of the violin to build tension while having battle drums and brass instruments playing loud and proud with so many rises and falls throughout gives his soundtrack a sense of warlike pride, which is perfect for games like this, just as its perfect for games like Valkyria Chronicles. The music in this game is divine and extremely memorable. >>340610684
>three of the only tracks that aren't horribly muddled/overorchestrated
>implying
Nah mate, the soundtrack is full of gold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDCUaYGmD5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEZmgiFVWwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XssigkHISPY
Even when done in Revenant Wings it still sounded great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMsUu9g1i0
>>340611154
You have the shittiest taste. Uematsu is God. FFIX has the greatest soundtrack in any videogame ever made.
>>340611257
There is only three good songs in 9.
>>340611154
>Takeharu Ishimoto>Nobuo Uematsu
Now that's just pure contrarianism right there. You honestly expect me to believe that shitty buttrock in CC was better than any piece of music from FF1-10?
>>340611345
There's only 3 good songs per game usually.
It's a trend it seems with all the composers throughout the years. There's not a single full soundtrack that people are happy about. Everyone always list the same 3-4 songs from each game.
>>340611257
>FFIX has the greatest soundtrack in any videogame ever made.
Not him but nigga you stupid. IX has ok sounding music, but it's more of a miracle that Uematsu managed to make it sound good at all with the synth sets he used.
He'd already outperformed himself with 8. 8's music is pretty tops
>>340611374
>You honestly expect me to believe that shitty buttrock in CC was better than any piece of music from FF1-10?
Bruh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOJ91H4mraU
>>340611154
I have to admit having the actual live orchestra makes it sound much better, but there's still too much going on. Come to think of it XIII had a somewhat similar problem, especially in the cutscene tracks where instruments were bizarrely used in place of sound effects at times.
Sometimes simplicity is good, anon.
>>340611374
Nigger see Type0 OST , TWEWY OST GOD TIER.
CC only has a few buttrock because Uematsu did buttrock for advent children and kitase told ishimoto to follow AC style with CC.
>>340611458
In an interview he actually admitted 9 was the last final push, he would never compose on that level again. It was his peak.
>>340610584
>I think it's less like coding and somehow below scripting...
Scripting is easier than some regular programming languages, but it still has some room for creativity. It is more of an insult to say it is less complex than programming in Alice. Gambits leave no room for imagination. Anyone who can't set up the game to play itself is probably either not trying, or is incapable of performing simple tasks that most people are capable of.
>>340610810
In VIII, you have to learn the ability to junction certain things using certain GFs. You have to use the right combination of GFs to get the most use out of your junctions. You also have to rearrange what magic you have junctioned to certain stats to make the best use of your available magic. I love VII's materia system, but it is ignorant to say it is as complex. The usual reason I see people hating VIII is because it is too complex, and that is one of the things I love about the game. Hell, I love most of the games in the series until we start hitting the PS2 and PS3 era.
>>340611257
muhblack mage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLaRE3cuhg
>>340611257
>>340611257
No
Kingdom Hearts II has the greatest soundtrack in any video game ever made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PS7IoePKw
>>340611374
No, I expect you to believe that Type 0 and TWEWY have better music than FF1-10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Aq00n2PIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzP_wjYKEOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uAF_Ez5i1U
>>340611613
I think he likely meant he wouldn't make that many songs again. 9 had a fucking lot of songs
>>340611537
Yeah that's what I'm talking about. It's the one halfway-decent track in the entire game and it isn't even half as good as the OST in the original VII.
>>340611590
Never played Type-0. I loved TWEWY but not for its music, I've never been a fan of Jpop to begin with.
>>340611786
Crisis core's music was good in spite of VII's. It's a prequel to VII, he had to make music fitting of VII. Which also involved using a lot of VII's themes but fitting his style which made them pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQCeR8-FoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpsDpKFuGPY
I'm not the guy you're arguing with about sakimoto though, I like the music in every FF. I'll never understand someone claiming one has bad music because it's not their favorite or because they didn't like the game or something. I don't like XIII but Hamauzu did some work with those
>>340611717
Are those seriously the best examples for Type-0 you could come up with? Because not a single one of those can top these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrwQPtxR36M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQwQnEfbh0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jho-peCAKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVkcmx2l3WA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWE0nlhpdq8
And that's just off the top of my head.
Hell that shit can't even top this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi_grEetkuM
>>340609829
Did you even play the game? Every character got their turn, and that was about it, their growth was hamfisted during their turn
Not to say I like the way it was presented, the game seemed kind of like it was developed according to a checklist as the game progressed
>>340610810
iirc there were more types of statuses and combo status magic like pain, and it was kind of more limited than materia, you needed a certain combination of GF's to open slots whereas you could buy and farm materia
I'm not saying it's better or that it's the only one, it is what it is
>>340610813
I think the songs are rearranged or remastered, so it's not just uncompressed, they use different samples, but that's being kind of nitpicky, overall you're right
>>340611154
It gets kind of old, I think there's some kind of audible fatigue from hearing so much orchestra, unless you're used to it
>>340611345
>>340611456
I've noticed a lot of uematsu tracks borrow melodies from other artists, notably deep purple, and that's just what I remember and am familiar with, I'm sure if you looked harder you'd find a lot more
>>340611717
Divine Fire is like crack for my ears but everything else is honestly meh
>>340611692
>is because it is too complex
Which is a complain I will never understand. VIII is incredibly clear and hides almost nothing. Hell, you basicaly have a wiki in-game that lists every single spell in the game, how to refine it and if it's a good idea to juction it or not.Having permanently missable GFs was a terrible idea though. You lose so much possibilities, they should have given you a way to get them in 3rd or 4th disk
>>340612251
Apparently you can get the ones you miss in ultimecia's castle. So there's a 4th disc option
>>340612329
Oh fuck I forgot. You can draw them for Ultimecia's servants right?
>>340612251
What they mean is that there's only one tutorial and it only happens once, while in other FFs i.e VII and IX you can go back and ask for help any time. And yeah VIII's isn't that hard at all, hell you could just auto-junction everything if you're too lazy to figure it out.
>>340612442
>What they mean is that there's only one tutorial and it only happens once
You can recall every tutorial through the guide menu. There are even extra ones. The in-menu guide is almost a strategy guide you can buy, it tells you almost anything.
>>340612069
The first one is good, the second one just sounds like a cover you can find on youtube.
>>340609452
>t's a very mediocre jrpg and while not particularly bad it has nothign that elevates it from anything else in the genre
Isn't that most of the series? At least the gameplay isn't complete shit like VI and IX.
>>340612531
How do you do that?
>>340612171
Exactly. There wasn't character development happening so much as "burnt-out writer going through the motions to fill a quota." Every scene was hamfisted but ultimately didn't change or mean anything. One of the most genuine scenes in the entire game is a random optional conversation between Hope and Vanille on Pulse that lasts for like a minute and has no lasting bearing on the story.
>>340612553
>the second one just sounds like a cover you can find on youtube.
If you know of anyone on youtube who can do covers on that level of quality let me know. Because I want to listen
>push stick left
>camera goes right
>push stick right
>camera goes left
>no options for camera control whatsoever
What the fuck??????
Iliterally stopped playing this game about 1 minute in.
>>340612667
I don't recall exactly but there's a "tutorial" voice in the guide.
There's a tutorial for basically anything.
>Party change
>Basic junctioning
>JFs abilities
>ST-attack
>>340602835
>Why is this the one game nobody ever seems to talk about? I remember when it came out, everyone was always like
>>"This game is amazing! It's the best Final Fantasy ever! It's the best PS2 game of all time!!"
You have a pretty poor memory. Everyone shat on FF XII when it came out. It wasn't until several years ago that it suddenly started getting a lot of praise.
>>340603758
>Source: my ass
SE heads simply were unconfident about the game's potential success because of how different it was from the rest of the series so they shoehorned the usual self-insert protag. Nobody likes Vaan in Japan or anywhere else.
>>340602835
There's threads about it all the time, newfag.
>>340613463
Not even that guy, but do a little research, this has been common knowledge for years. Do you know that's also how Raiden came to be in MGS2? Kojima said as much in an interview, I remember him talking about it in some of the special materials that game with either MGS3:Subsistence or MGS4.
VI > V > VII > IX > IV > XII > X > X-2 > VIII > XIII-2 > LR > XIII > CC > DOC
Haven't played any of the Tactics games yet.
>>340611154
>>340611717
Wait a sec, are you that fucker from the MAL forums who constantly wanks over KH2 and FFXII?
>>340602835
Most Final Fantasy fans can't get past the fact that the story isn't either a love story, or a tale about the power of friendship. It's deemed "boring" since they aren't mature enough to appreciate it.
>>340615537
Yes, just like how Phantom Menace is also hated because people aren't "mature enough" to appreciate it, right?
>>340615537
Then why does everyone jerk off to Tactics?
>>340615602
>A guy talks about A
>Another guys arrive, talks about B and since B is shit, then A is shit
What the fuck
>>340615537
fantasy politics with british voice acting and faux shakesearean dialogue does not a mature story make, piss off
>>340611154
I love Sakimoto, but his music is all pretty similar. You never have to check to know if he composed for a game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEnf7vk2Flc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv2jkZrJt70
>>340615915
Because A and B share the same problems. It also shows why that "u jus don get it!" bullshit doesn't work.
>>340615973
I'm guessing le big sword spiky hair man does.
>>340616027
Are you saying that the politics of XII were completely irrelevant?
>>340602835
Tried playing it twice, got bored after fucking around in the desert a few hours into the game.
>>340616164
most of the politics in XII are bullshit and arguably the worst part
it's not until magic gods trying to control the universe appear that it truly hits its stride
"coincidentally" this type of plot happens to be right in FF's usual wheelhouse
>>340605297
8 is absolute garbage. the internet cannnot say enough bad things about it.
>>340609085
>Not bad but not a single memorable track in entire game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVYHhcYWttY
Aside for this i agree with you
>>340616516
The internet has only provided "meme" explanations. All of the complaints I've heard in years are either autism focusing on a specific plot point I won't mention and the rest is and has been repeatedly disproven by fans that actually know what they are talking about.
Overreacting: the fanbase.
>>340616626
So the junction system isn't broken as fuck? I never knew.
Oh wait no fuck off fanboy.
>>340603746
>xenoblade was terrible, at least in the gameplay department
you can hate Xenoblade gameplay if you liked FF12 gameplay
>>340616732
See, the difference is that the FF8 fanbase usually calmly answers, while the haters come in and ad hominem until they have no more air to breathe.
How is it "broken"? Broken means it doesn't work, while junction works flawlessly. Or as in broken you mean it's easy to become overpowered?
But who's forcing you to play triple triads to get overpowered items? Who is forcing you to refine magics you shouldn't have?
People that abuse limit breaks and overpowered magic, only to then complain that the game sucks only ruined the game for themselves.
>>340610447
>to other FF games.
Lel, it's the most unforgettable compared to the others FF because it WAS different from them.
>>340611257
>FFIX has the greatest soundtrack in any videogame ever made.
You have the shittiest taste.
>>340616626
And all the FF8 defenders just use the "it's just a meme!" to justify FF8's hatred. No matter how many times people give legitimate reasons as to why it's bad, like the story going off the rails after the first disc (that specific plot point being a big reason why but far from the only one), the complete lack of a single likable character that hasn't been done before or after in a much better way, the junction system replacing your normal equipment and just amounts to dumping stupid amounts of magic into your stats and is a boring grind whether you draw it from enemies or refine it from the card game, and so on. No you're right, it's just all a meme, and anyone who doesn't think of it as a flawless masterpiece is just memeing.
>>340616851
>See, the difference is that the FF8 fanbase usually calmly answers
While using ad hominem attacks like "autism".
>>340616959
But you see? I can already disprove all of your points. That's why it's all a funny meme.
> the story going off the rails after the first disc
What does this mean? They get captured from Galbadia for the attempted murder of the sorceress and this leads to the missile base heist/saving balamb's garden. There's no filler. If the story didn't go the direction you wanted it's not the game's fault.
>the complete lack of a single likable character
I liked them. Pretty subjective point, m8
>the junction system replacing your normal equipment and just amounts to dumping stupid amounts of magic into your stats
And this is bad... why? Can you explain to me what's wrong about having it as an equipment system?
> is a boring grind whether you draw it from enemies or refine it from the card game
there is no grinding needed in ff8. If you grinded for hours you ruined the game for yourself and it's your fault. people with OCD needing 100 units of every spell in the game like it's the only way to enjoy things.
Please, continue.
>>340617070
Being triggered by theorphanagescene like that is akin to Tidus laugh. Autism. It's a single scene that's nowhere as bad as people claim, and yet it's heralded as the pinnacle of all that's bad.
But it's allright. You can like or dislike all you want. But surely as fuck I'll defend a game I like, exactly like you'd all do with your own.
>>340615630
>tactics
>not a love story
It's about Delita and Ramza's forbidden love
>>340616369
>it's not until magic gods trying to control the universe appear that it truly hits its stride
It's set in Ivalice, what did you expect?
>>340616732
>So the junction system isn't broken as fuck?
What's bad about a system working?
>>340617229
>What does this mean? They get captured from Galbadia for the attempted murder of the sorceress and this leads to the missile base heist/saving balamb's garden. There's no filler. If the story didn't go the direction you wanted it's not the game's fault.
Because it blatantly contradicts that tone and setting of the first disc. There was magic and the usual summons, but on the whole the world was pretty logical, followed militaristic discipline, and was fairly grounded.
Then, after the hero suffers what looked like a pretty fatal injury, the tone shifts entirely to drill shaped prisons, flying schools, giant Jabba the Huts in the basement, futuristic cities hiding behind an invisible wall that have an active space program (When in disc 1, making radio transmissions work was a major part of the plot), and so on.
>I liked them. Pretty subjective point, m8
Even Rinoa? Because she has to be one of the most insufferable characters in any piece of fiction ever.
>And this is bad... why? Can you explain to me what's wrong about having it as an equipment system?
I already have. Not to mention that it suffers the same problem as the materia system in that it turns all your characters into blank interchangeable slates, but unlike the materia system your stats are weakened if you use the magic. And I forgot to mention the level scaling too, which I have yet to see even the most hardcore FF8 fanboy defend.
>there is no grinding needed in ff8. If you grinded for hours you ruined the game for yourself and it's your fault. people with OCD needing 100 units of every spell in the game like it's the only way to enjoy things.
But the thing is, it DOES encourage you to grind for magic for your stats. The only other way to beat the game is to spam GF summons over and over again.
>>340617229
>Being triggered by the orphanage scene like that is akin to Tidus laugh.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. Tidus's laugh is just a dumb moment that lasts only a few seconds and is taken out of context, it is in no way a major plot point like the orphanage scene, which establishes that everyone has the same origin story and they just simply forgot about it save for one guy. Also it's not the only thing wrong with FF8's plot.
>But it's allright. You can like or dislike all you want.
Nope I can't do that otherwise I'm just memeing, remember?
>>340616851
>Broken means it doesn't work
No, it means that the balance is totally fucked, which it is. It's extremely easy to end up breaking FFVIII just by following through on the mechanics it literally explains to you, and no, "just don't use them!" isn't an argument, it's an admission of a problem.
>>340617661
Not him but I want to jump on these two
>it DOES encourage you to grind for magic for your stats.
It only encourages you as much as any other FF does. Are you going to complain about 6's only way to gain base stats being from espers, so any level without a stat giving esper is essentially wasted? Same thing
>The only other way to beat the game is to spam GF summons over and over again.
As a retarded 12 year old the first time I played and beat 8 when it came out, I both understood nothing about the junction system but also learned that my GFs died real quick if I tried to rely on them. I didn't even learn boost was manual until a few years later on a replay by accident. I got by with pitifully low melee attacks and after a point casting -aga spells. I beat Adel entirely by drawcasting Blizzaga with everyone for about 350 damage a pop. I also didn't realize enemies scaled with your level and grinded to 100 thinking I would be a badass.
I still managed to beat the game with all the problems that file had because it's super easy. junctioning for broken stats or status triggers is in no way required at any point in the game. It's on you if you play like thatand feel obligated to.
>>340617661
>Drill shapen prisons
You had a japanese school training cute schoolgirls into the art of murder in disk 1. You are selectively deciding you can have suspension of disbelief for one and not for the other just for the sake of whining.
>flying schools,
The centra's ring was already introduced before. All gardens are built on what remained of ancient Centra technology.
>Jabba the Huts
Norg was a bit of a filler, but heavily foreshadowed before. What was wrong with a dude with money disliking the idea of SeeD having a greater cause?
>futuristic cities hiding behind an invisible wall that have an active space program (When in disc 1, making radio transmissions work was a major part of the plot)
It's not impossible to do radio transmissions (Dollet's tower works fine), it's just that the quality has degraded so much there's no reason to use them. Also, Esthar is a futuristic Utopia that's far more advanced than the resto of the world, having built both Adel's cemetery and Lunatic Pandora.
>Even Rinoa?
Yes, she and squall both needed to mature.
>I already have
You said that's bad because it's bad.
> it DOES encourage you to grind for magic for your stats
>Use elab ice magic on 1 idrocristal
>Get 20 idros unit
>'farm' idrocristals for literal one minute
>All characters now have 100 units
>Grinding
>>340617989
>Are you going to complain about 6's only way to gain base stats being from espers, so any level without a stat giving esper is essentially wasted? Same thing
Yes, yes I am. It was an incredibly shitty system that rewarded not playing the game, to say nothing of how obviously tacked on the mechanic was because it was in no way necessary to beating the game.
>>340618139
Shh you mustn't insult VI, it is the sacred cow of the franchise, you must only insult everything released after VI, especially VII because it's so overrated and gay.
>>340603005
like ur mum
>>340618139
>because it was in no way necessary to beating the game
Hey, same as 8. 8 and 6 also share terrible plot pacing.
>>340602835
I just liked the plot twist that you are manipulated by the setting's equivalent of The Great Old Ones, to kill one of their kind that has gone rogue, who wants to free the mortal races from their grasp.
FF12 is an amazing game. Or at least half of it is. It's pretty clear when the shift in development occured, when the plot goes from interesting political stuff to MAGIC ROOOOOOCKS out of fucking nowhere.
>>340618301
Wait, what ? Is that the actual metaplot ?I skipped half the cinematic, i just thought the point was that the big shadow guy is manipulating the Arcadians for reasons
>>340616959
I won't knock the game for being unique and ambitious as fuck but the plot is just boring. I expected a time travel soap opera and got some highschool mercenary shit.
>>340618917
But the time travel soap opera was the worst part of it!
>>340617995
Not the guy you were arguing with but:
>Yes, she and squall both needed to mature.
How is that a valid defense? People shit on Cloud, Tidus and Hope for being "emo" and "whiny" but when Squall does it it's okay because "he needs to mature"? And Rinoa is the worst female protag of any FF, worse than Aeris, worse than Yuna, worse than Penelo, worse than Vanille, she is just a "look at me, I'm a little pretty princess who wants to make everyone do what I want" from the beginning to the end.
>>340619001
Don't they introduce time travel around Disk 3? I dropped it at the second one and it was just constant flashbacks and school shit.
>>340618862
The occuria manipulate humans
Venat is a traitor among occuria and is working with Vayne to remove occuria control over humans.They succeed by tricking you into doing exactly what they want you to do.
>>340619342
> People shit on Cloud, Tidus and Hope for being "emo" and "whiny" but when Squall does it it's okay because "he needs to mature"?
You are using what other people say as a counter to my own argument? Why are you putting things I never said in my mouth?
I liked Tidus. I liked Hope. I like Cloud. I never accused a carachter of being "emo" or "whiny".
Try to not force your frustrations on me because I am not part of your problems.
>>340619420
>I dropped it
>I spoiled the story for myself so I think I can argue
>>340619342
Squall was 17
Cloud wasn't emo in ff7, people who claim that only watched AC or spew shit they've heard from others.
>>340603878
The ultimate moves are only there to help you start out.
They get completely phased out midgame.
>>340618301
I liked how they never explained Venat's reasons for doing.....anything really
>>340618917
>I won't knock the game for being unique and ambitious
The problem is that it's not. The SaGa series has done far more off the wall shit than FF8 ever thought about doing, both plotwise and mechanicwise.
>>340619776
s/he was obviously gerun's spurned lover
