Let's get serious.
Are videogames a viable artistic medium?
If yes please name the games that you consider art.
Wait a second...I have a familiar feeling in my penis.
Could it be...?
>>340595570
That's the face fuck girl right?
>>340595570
Yeah sure, I would say big rigs over the road racing and superman 64 are just art as the mona lisa or the great gatsby. Who really gives a shit though. Games have artistic expression, they have to having visual art.
I don't even know why anyone would care.
If movies are considered an artform then I don't see why games wouldn't be.
>>340595767
That is one fuckable face.
>>340595767
Holy shit Fuck, cant even remember where i saw that vid
Yes, I consider the following games to be art:
Literally all of them
doesn't matter
Yes and Doom's probably the best example because it's not only innovative, well designed and impressive on countless levels but also insanely influential
>>340596085
She did porn with those guys that are completely brutal to the girls, I think she was bleeding a bit
>>340595570
Damn shame too, that's the kind of girl I would flirt with if I saw out, pretty not slutting it up, or so you would think, but after that, you kind of lose all respect for someone.
>>340595570
I wish my daughter was a whore.
Sure. If like noise music is a form of art then Memory of a Broken Dimension is art.
>>340596379
The follow your dreams one?
>>340596439
Yeah
>>340595570
>Are videogames art? shitpost with pic that's meant to derail the thread
You're good.
>>340596439
And exactly where is this video?
>>340596604
Is this your first day on the internet?
>>340595570
All video games are art. It's just that not all of them are good art.
Postal 2. It's making a strong statement about violence and video games in a society not so far from columbine
Yes.
Half-Life 2
Team Fortress 2
Portal
Dota 2
Metal Gear Solid
Yes
They're performance art, individually bottled and rental priced so you can show off to friends after you git gud
>>340596604
porn.com
>>340595570
That depends on what you mean by viable. Games can have a clear message without entertaining gameplay or impressive graphics (see Passage), so any individual game can be an art piece.
If you mean something closer to "can art games be successful in the artistic market" I would think not. I don't think many video games can be sold in the way fine art is (limited runs and original product) and most art games just sell like regular games.
So, yeah, but they probably aren't priceless anytime soon.
>>340596819
>Dota 2
>>340596696
Tell me or shut the fuck up nigbot
>>340596907
EASY
Examples of games as (good) art: Ico/SotC, System Shock 2, Thief 2, American McGees Alice, Quake, Deus Ex
>>340596793
>themes and messages
>playing by the rules of hipster artfags who are too simple minded to understand what makes video games good and instead choose to judge them using the same standards they use for movies and books
>>340596819
>I wasted 10000 hours of my life on this and I desperately need to defend it: the post
>>340595570
If you have to hire artists to make them, then how can one say video games arent art?
She looks so innocent.
Fucking asians man.
>>340597016
As opposed to a game you play once and never touch again because it has no depth beyond some shitty "feels" or "atmosphere"?
I don't think any story from any medium can compare to Undertale. Not the story itself, but how it's presented and how it actually takes advantage of being a game instead of just being a movie with some gameplay. It's the most artistic thing ever created.
>>340596982EASYYY
>>340595570
i define art as any object that stimulates self reflection, consciously or subconsciously. so by that definition i pretty much consider every game i've played a piece of art.
>>340597036
Because most anons have that mental illness where they think art is a binary concept
>>340597010
But with Postal the themes are acctually integrated into the gameplay,
>>340597108
WAIT A MINUTE SHE WAS ASAIN I THOUGHT THAT BITCH WAS WHITE FOR 3 YEARS
>>340595570
What a cutie. Waifu/10 material.
>>340597016
>having less than 10000 hours in total vidya played after age 18
your kind aren't wanted here
Sure. If movies can be art, I don't think it's a stretch to say games can be too. Art doesn't always have to purely be about 'depth' or thematics, though. Art needs an audience to consider it, and how the piece makes them think and feel is also important.
What I'm saying is these posts beat me to the punch
>>340596343
>>340597213
>>340597248
Yeah, Gone Home's themes are integrated with the "gameplay" too. This kind of line of thought makes hipsters who don't like video games feel right at home.
>>340595570
What drove her to do it?
>>340597319
kek
>>340595570
Been an artist my whole life, fuck no
So much talentless shit qualifies as art. By allowing games to be judged on the same level as art you give a free pass to all the shitty games out there because some cumstain thinks a hallway simulator is "art"
You may feel some games are passionately or skillfully made but those properties aren't essential to modern "art". Its all pretentious dick twaddling.
Keep that nonsense out of video games. Its cancer to the highest degree.
>>340595570
art is a subjective term imo
anyone can look at something and call it art, not just 80 year olds
If you were to take the literal interepretation of "art", yeah
>>340597417
What drove you to become an autistic weeb?
>>340597472
Look at this pretentious dick twaddler
>>340595570
Every video game is art, and so are playthroughs. Or any given instance/moment of a game being played.
Arguing that games aren't art isn't stupid, but arguing that they are art, but only certain ones are is philistine.
>>340597472
>Been an artist my whole life
I'll take an iced caramel cappuccino please.
culturally, yes
legally? I don't know
>>340597417
Daddy issues
>>340597472
post art and see how it compares to AAA budget 3d models you fuck
>>340596379
It was the dude's dick, he clipped a tooth.
>>340597552
That one girl in middle school called me fat.
>>340597620
Im in STEM bro. Sorry that wasnt your expected response.
I think they can, stuff like Journey demonstrates that.
I think though that games should not try to be art, because for every Journey we get we also get 50 Gone Homes or Depression Quests.
>>340595570
Damn that girl is a qt.
Why are white/Jap mix girls so cute?
>>340597632
They are considered art under the law, they have the same protection as movies and books.
If a picture is art, and a series of moving pictures is art, then a series of moving pictures that you have some control over is art.
>>340595570
Art is any form of creative expression.
All of them, even the shitty ones.
I've had an idea to try and whip up a system that tracks controller/mouse movements so that it draws on a digital canvas as you play, and the buttons do various things (change color, change line thickness, change brush).
I'd honestly be fascinated to see if they would be accepted as art.
>>340597472
>So much talentless shit qualifies as art. By allowing games to be judged on the same level as art you give a free pass to all the shitty games out there because some cumstain thinks a hallway simulator is "art"
That's literally what's happening with dumbfuck college students that think smearing a canvas with period blood is some sort of grand feminist statement.
There are always going to be psuedo-intellectual morons, but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>>340597827
Pretty sure the mother is chinese.
>>340597889
can I ask under what case this was decided?
>>340595570
why cant gameplay be art?
>>340595570
She is beautiful
>>340595570
>Are videogames a viable artistic medium?
Don't give a shit. All I care for is if my government acknowledges them as art so they'll be protected by the first amendment from angry moms.
>>340598051
Your mother was too when I was done fucking her .
>>340598097
Because appreciating gameplay takes effort and experience, far more than retards who go on about games being art can spare. "Themes" and "emotion" are surface level shit any braindead faggot can point out on the other hand.
>>340595570
Shadow of the Colossus by itself is enough to justify that video games are a viable artistic medium.
Some other games off the top of my head that are pretty good: Journey, Undertale, MGS
Whether or not most games are GOOD art is another question
>>340598097
gameplay is art
>>340598097
>Alucard is pale in the artwork
>He's brown in the gamesprites
I never got this.
>>340597763
>because for every Journey we get we also get 50 Gone Homes
Can someone explain the hate for Gone Home to me?
It seemed like a pretty good fusion of exploratory gameplay and thematic/story "exploration" of the younger sister's situation.
I get that it's a bit pretentious, but I don't see why it's deserving of the disdain /v/ has for it.
>>340597892
> that you have some control over
Ah but there is the problem. For something to truly be a work of art it must only consist of the artist's vision, it must be complete, untouched by outside influences. Once you interact with a game it ceases to be art>opinion of a faggy hipster
>>340598297
journey and undertale are bad examples, because they exploit the narrative potential, which are not the nature of the medium. in my opinion. Tetris for example is a much better example of games as art.
>>340595570
The Void and Pathologic come to mind.
>>340598373
Lesbians.
>>340598421
>untouched by outside influences.
Impossible, unless your ideal artist is a man isolated from the outside world. Everything influences you.
>>340598097
It is, actually.
>>340595570
>that qt trap in the background
who?
>>340598004
Whatever, I think youre being too optimistic.
I just dont see a place in art for raw talent. Its now about who can be more thought provoking than the last person. I can piss in a cup and get a museum block dedicated to myself.
Its so vapid that learning how to wire networks is more fun to me than that shit. I gave up.
>>340598091
nevermind found it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Ass%27n
>>340598358
To contrast the hairs maybe.
>>340598373
For me it's 80% of the pretentious standing and overblown praise it gets, and 20% being that it's just not a very good game in a mechanic sense.
You wander, look at shit, and that's it.
Even with Journey you have a clear goal and things, however ineffective they may be, trying to stop you from getting that goal.
Gone Home just reminds me of a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book except nothing actually effects anything and all the endings are the same.
Without any conflict it's just flat.
>>340598421
thats kind of a misunderstanding. Almost every art movment post impressionism counts on the influence over the understanding of the work.
a powerfull argument for games as a art form is the nature of every player having different experiences, a ideia that a lot of other mediums tryed to emulate, but truly, only games can provide.
>>340598618
>trap
More like fallen qt
>>340595570
I don't think simply to die to accessibility. Not everybody can play every game well enough to enjoy all of its details
>>340595570
Yes
but they're not going to go anywhere outside of indie shit. So basically they're just like movies and hollywood.
>>340598618
hownu.ru
>>340598618
looks a lot like my friend desu. But he's a guy.
>>340598596
I'm not talking about the man, I'm talking about the finished artwork. The man may be influenced, the finished art cannotI agree with you
>>340596916
not him
here you go
http://www.xvideos.com/tags/mayli
>>340598213
>Because appreciating gameplay takes effort and experience, far more than retards who go on about games being art can spare. "Themes" and "emotion" are surface level shit any braindead faggot can point out on the other hand.
It's also partly because gameplay as art is more or less divorced from the text/story of games for the most part.
This is going to be fucking pretentious as hell, but gameplay as art is probably most similar to architecture, or dance as a method of expression, which doesn't get explored much in the more commercial side of things, and why when gameplay is discussed it's as a support for the themes of the story, because it's similar in function to cinematography or prose.
>>340598692
>Gone Home just reminds me of a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book except nothing actually effects anything and all the endings are the same.
So... like a regular book then?
>>340596819
>Valve
>Valve
>Valve
>Valve
sucking gabens dick while posting
>>340598454
Except that narrative potential is one of the strongest core elements of videogames as a medium. Precious few developers took full advantage of it however, the most prominent example I can think of was Deus Ex, where the developers thoroughly considered some of the craziest shit players could do and prepared the narrative accordingly, having it react to what the players did. Right now videogames, development wise, as an artistic medium are still suck in what could be best compared to the musicals or slapstick comedy stages of the cinema. When videogames will begin to fully encompass the broad range of emotions humanity are capable of, including the most "controversial" of subjects, then the medium will mature.
>>340595570
These days a can of shit is art.
Art is a worthless term by itself.
Are games worthy of classical art?
Its difficult to say since they are so different. I know that Morrowind had a more profound 'existential' impact on my life than many paintings or statues.
Still, its just not the same.
>>340598953
>>340599034
>the broad range of emotions humanity are capable of, including the most "controversial" of subjects
Such as?
How can games not be considered art? You still need to create the visuals.
Is sculpture not considered art?
The game devs sculpt the environments to look this way.
>>340596819
>art
>dota 2
Do you think she regrets it?
Or was it something that she felt good about afterwards? Maybe like an unfulfilled kink that never came up in her sex life that she was happy to have explored?
>>340599034
Musicals and physical comedy are some of the artistic high points for film.
>>340598492
This.
These are great examples of games using mechanical and structural means unique to vidya to transmit their artistic meaning, and become themselves actual whole pieces of art.
I don't know why people get assblasted when something dumb is considered art. Just consider it bad art.
>>340595570
Art to me is anything that sets out to illicit an emotion, and is able to make that connection without using methods that are too contrived. Like starting a sentence without directly communicating, and the observer is able to finish that sentence, unaware the sentence was even started by the artist unless they set out to examine the work more closely.
And this can be achieved at many different levels, different depths of gameplay, story, cinematography, anything. The point is that an idea was communicated in an instant, and the observer understood what was going on with out contrivance. This is the foresight that makes me consider something as good art. It may be broad, but it is in my opinion the greatest thing about artistic works.
The most interesting part of game design from an artistic standpoint to me, is when designers ask themselves "How do we make the player feel this through their actions" and they achieve that through a combination of game mechanics.
>>340599528
Because "art" is generally used to elevate a creative work above all the shit in the medium, otherwise the term would be really pointless.
>>340599424
Anyone would regret it.
I mean, I regret masturbating sometimes, and that shit's something I do alone that no one will ever see... hopefully.
>>340599034
In the "academic game studies" there is a big debate about narritve potential, and pure structural expression, i tend to agree more with the structural side of things, just like the people on /v/ debate about gameplay vs story.
But i think your argument is pretty good and acurrate, deus ex is one of a kind i think, and the right kind of thinking when you say about narrative on a game. I just desagree with journey, shadow of the colossus as grand examples because people tend to see the artistic quality in a figurative sense of the game presentation as a quality art piece.
Also agree if (or when) that narrative games will became quality art pieces, but there is so little of them right now.
Was moonman art?
>>340595570
No and artfags are cancer.
>>340599298
Such as anxiety, despair, rage, apprehension, frustration. Those things usually come as a byproduct of a player failing a challenge, but when the player completes a challenge, he is rewarded with something. I'm just paraphrasing the words I completely agree with that another man wrote up elsewhere, but few games were made not to make the player have fun, but be sad, lost, feeling utterly helpless and having your actions portrayed as meaningless across the entire duration of it. Sure, some games have elements of that, but it still doesn't exhaust you. It's there to provide contrast or a small emotional shock, but almost no game has the emotional impact value comparable to some of the works of photography or cinema.
>>340599658
The term "art" is generally pointless though when you literally need to discuss what is considered art.
>>340595756
Yes, that is her. Your penis is not mistaken
>>340597540
none of these three definitions relate to video games
>>340599840
I don't know family playing arcade games has made me hate myself far more than any other medium ever could
>>340598692
>For me it's 80% of the pretentious standing and overblown praise it gets,
Well that's just pointless contrarianism
>20% being that it's just not a very good game in a mechanic sense.
See I disagree with that. The mechanics of "wandering and looking for shit" are a way of getting people invested in the story by having them actively look for the next piece of information. The story is told through the environment and the little dairy fragments that you find, having any other mechanics would distract from the point of the game.
>Even with Journey you have a clear goal and things, however ineffective they may be, trying to stop you from getting that goal.
I haven't played journey, but iirc the goal is essentially shown to you as a beacon way off in the distance right? And then you decide to go that way because there's nothing else for you to do?
That's essentially how Gone Home works. You arrive home, there's no one there to greet you, so look around and find out why.
>Gone Home just reminds me of a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book except nothing actually effects anything and all the endings are the same.
Nothing in the game world will change, other than misc objects that you might displace, but your experience can change dramatically based on whether you actually play the game, or you sequence break by finding the secret door in the first room and skip the whole thing.
You're thinking of it too much like a game if that makes sense. The point isn't to be a sprawling RPG with 70 different endings that change whether or not you returned Christmas Duck to his nest. Why would the ending change based on your actions? You're showing up to an empty house and working out what happened.
>Without any conflict it's just flat.
The conflict is between the player and the environment/story, with the player attempting to unlock various areas and understand what's happened to their family. You don't shoot anyone, but that's not the only type of conflict.
>>340600142
>>340598692
Not to be purposefully rude or presumptuous, but it seems like you have a very narrow idea of what constitutes a game/story and you don't like Gone Home because it deviates from it and is being praised for the deviation.
It also seems like you have a pretty shallow understanding of why people liked Gone Home.
>>340600095
That's your reaction to it because you were a frustrated young man. It wasn't the intention behind the game. My post spoke of it.
Who /GhettoGaggers/ here
>>340600348
>It wasn't the intention behind the game.
It most definitely was because coins, some devs didn't even playtest the true final bosses because they figured no one would get to them
>>340600441
That's just carelessness coupled together with poor game design. Although what you say still has merit because certain forms of art are almost entirely for the observer to interpret. It still strikes more as coincidence though.
Art is a work of expression. Of course video games are an art form, it's just ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Anyone who claims that it isn't doesn't understand the medium in the slightest.
>>340600591
To be honest does it really matter if it was a very deliberate decision by developers or if it was just some happy accident? Doesn't change the end product. But arcade games WERE out to fuck with the player, the ultimate reward was still there technically though but you really have to be the absolute best of the best to reach it.
Does it matter?
>>340600785
That seems more of a competitive thing to me though, like sports and the like. Weren't you supposed to compare your high scores to high scores of other players in the arcade and the ultimate triumph was to be #1? There were never any arcades around where I was, so that part of life eluded me unfortunately. It would make sense that trying to beat such a challenge would result in a lot of negative emotions, frustrations and anger. People in sports go through that all the time when competing. Competitive games and environments are stressful even thought it is not their intention.
Emotionally?
>MGS2
>Chrono Cross
>Team Ico
>FFVII
>Terranigma
Mechanically?
>Mario 64
>>340600957
It doesn't matter.
>>340601034
>Mario 64
t. moviebob
>>340600957
>>340601020
Yeah but unlike sports those games also have a definitive win state besides just the high score so the frustrations aren't just a result of competition but are there by design
>>340600342
The player is ENTIRELY pointless in Gone Home.
You have no character, no action with the actors, no nothing.
The loose "hurr you're coming back from college" is just window dressing on a hollow empty shell for someone to slap themselves into.
And that's the issue.
The player has no conflict with the story, no ability to press or take inaction as they see fit. It's all the characters you meet taking already taken actions just being relayed to you in the past tense.
The ability to see conflict from your own perspective, and also impart yourself on it, are game's major benefits over other media. And Gone Home does jack shit with it.
I do not mind Gone Home's story, I personally don't care for it, but I'm not going to say it sucks just because of that.
However it's a terrible game.
Not to be purposefully rude or presumptuous, but I think you have a very shallow idea about how games can actually be used to tell a story or interact with its audience.
How do you personally define art?
>A good work will keep you entertained while you're in it's world
>A great work will make you think when you're away from its world
>A work of art will ask you to question yourself
Games are not art. Games are made by artists, and contains their art, but the final compilation is not art.
>>340597036
Just because a game has art in it, doesnt mean it's inherently art.
A museum itself isnt art. It has art in it, but it's not art. (architecture aside)
>>340602451
Something that's practically useless. Like it serves no physical purpose. That's it for me.
>>340602451
Yeah totally question myself when I see a jpg of the Mona Lisa. How dramatic.
>>340595570
I don't see why anybody holds more respect for movies than video games as an art-form. They are actually really similar, especially the state of both of them today.
>>340595570
Dwarf Fortress is on display in the MOMA
What's your excuse for nto playing a good game and a fine piece of art?
Say what you want about Zirbas, but I like his definition of art.
>>340603413
When you say they're similar, do you just mean in terms of their industries?
>>340602168
I agree.
I would agree with >>340600142 partially and say Gone Home's mechanics are valid, and that "conflict" between environment/story and player is a real thing. But Gone Home is a poor example of it.
Its interaction isn't merely simple, in the grand scheme of it, it comes down to little more than the interaction required to turn the pages in a book, or if you will, wander in a museum. It becomes almost totally about receiving and not giving on the player's part.
It really does not try to take advantage of the medium, and it absolutely does not deviate from what games normally do. It's just an adventure game, and a rather poor one.
>>340595570
>Are videogames a viable artistic medium?
Technically yes
>If yes please name the games that you consider art.
It doesn't work like this, either they all are or none of them are. You can't just draw something and then say that it isn't art.
>>340603586
Holy shit what a faggot.
His whole argument about "progress" is enough for anyone to see he's fucked in the head.
>>340602168
>The player has no conflict with the story, no ability to press or take inaction as they see fit. It's all the characters you meet taking already taken actions just being relayed to you in the past tense.
It's a mystery, there's not meant to be any action that you can take part in beyond uncovering it.
>The ability to see conflict from your own perspective, and also impart yourself on it, are game's major benefits over other media.
I strongly disagree with this. The game deliberately uses the player character as a stand in for the player themselves as a way to engage the player in the story through the act of playing the game. The exploration gameplay and the mystery storytelling are an almost 1:1 match when it comes to using the mechanics as metaphor for the player character's actions themselves.
The "ability to see conflict from your own perspective" is reducing the whole range of subjects you can empathise with and experience down to the most basic form imaginable.
Gone Home has plenty of conflict, the sister is having conflict with her parents over her sexuality, the parents are having marital issues, the father is unable to get published and is writing reviews of audio equipment and the player is in constant conflict with the environment in trying to progress through the house and understand to story. But to say that's meaningless because you can't directly interact with it is bullshit.
>Not to be purposefully rude or presumptuous
Ok, I laughed at this. You got me pretty good.
>how games can actually be used to tell a story or interact with its audience.
That's the thing, Gone Home is interacting with it's audience, by using a specific type of gameplay paired with a specific type of story to allow for greater player immersion. It's subtle yes, but it's also very much using gameplay to tell a story in the same way that carrying Zulf does in Bastion, just on a larger more conceptual scale.
>>340604269
Cool argument bro.
You guys keep asking if vidya is art but why not ask the question "How can vidya NOT be art"
All video games are art.
Video games that have good gameplay succeed as good art, those that don't, don't
For example, i'd consider God Hand, Smash Melee or DMC 3 to have more artistic value than Gone Home or Dear Esther
I don't get why "art" is seen as an absolute paragon term of quality or meaning when it's any expression of human creativity. Video games are an expression of human creativity, therefore art. Does being art make it something grand or life-altering? No. Does being called art make every video game good? No, there are plenty of shitty video games, just like there are millions of shitty artworks, movies, songs and dance routines.
>>340597620
lel #rekt
>it's a '/v/ talks about art' episode
>>340595570
Mario Paint
Videogames can be considered works of art from 2 different angles: gameplay & aesthetics. Note that in the end whether or not you consider it a work of art is mostly subjective.
Examples:
>gameplay
games where the gameplay is engaging & deep, typically any game that gets you "in the zone" such as Devil May Cry 3, Zone of the Enders 2, Tribes...
>aesthetics
games where the graphics, style or maybe cinematography (camera system etc) are impressive enough to wow you, e.g., Shadow of the Colossus (arguably artistic in both gameplay & aesthetics), Jet Set Radio, Okami...
NaissanceE too is a good example of aesthetic art in gameplay, though it deviates a lot from traditional art, & is more of a play on lighting & shadows.
>>340595767
And her parents.
>>340604453
Look, anyone who argues that new things are automatically better than old things based purely on "progress", and if someone were to prefer an old car to a new car that automatically means they don't like cars, is a fucking idiot. In terms of art he's basically saying that babbie's first MS Paint comic is instantly better than a Renaissance great because it's newer and therefore has progressed.
Bioshock
I know everyone says it but the whole game is a critique of Ayn Rand done very fluidly. It evokes emotion, discussion, all of those art buzzwords or whatever the fuck.
>>340595570
Are board game art? No
Can they use art to convey shit? Yes
It's the same for vidya the core mechanics are what make a game, graphics and storytelling are just awelcomeaddition but not what make vidya and it shouldn't be the main focus of it.
