What happened bros?
I enjoy the handholding, I play singleplayer games to turn my brain off.
If I want a challenge multiplayer is the only option, anyone who thinks playing against an AI is hard is a moron.
TOP KEK
No videogame is a fucking RPG you dumb faggot.
>>340271170
I think 3rd person games require this kind of thing, especially witcher 3. VtM:B is a more intimate, slow, immersing, first person game where you have the time and the field/point of view to explore your surroundings and proceed slowly. In witcher 3 you just want to get through shit, continue the story and kill monsters
Far Cry 3
>Huge island to explore
>Oh, the treasures/crafting materials are shown on the minimap
>No option to disable them
>>340271330
You're not playing against the AI, dumbfuck.
>>340272165
Come again?
>using VTMB when a much more appropriate comparison exists in the form of Gothic
Shit thread anyway
>>340272236
You're playing against the game itself, not some kind of single bot in an empty map. You can make an incredibly difficult game with the most barebones AI. Hell, you can make an enemy which isn't humanly possible to win against with a few lines of code.
>>340272351
Literally not hard unless you are braindead.
bullshit vision is one of the worse things to happen to video games. thanks ass creed.
>>340272052
>what is ziggy's mod
>>340272463
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGrCHEtOZ38
Demonstrate how easy this is please by beating it. And keep in mind this isn't even remotely close to being the hardest possible thing you can do with an AI enemy.
>>340272567
Shmups are nothing but fucking memorization of patterns, let's not be retarded.
There is no thinking involved, it's all muscle memory.
Whoever keeps making these crap images should look in a mirror for a long time
>>340272690
Even if that were true, which it isn't, that would still not make it any less difficult. Plus there are shmups with randomization, and I could whip up a shmup boss you will never beat in your entire life in a few hours.
>>340272764
If it's solveable there is no skill involved, just braindead grinding.
There is only skill in PvP.
>>340272690
>trying to downplay the opposing argument when you know you're wrong
We could argue down literally any game like that.
>it's all muscle memory
Any action game
>it's all memorization of patterns
Goes even wider, from any action game to any turn based game
And let's not overlook this retardation you stated
>Shmups are nothing but fucking memorization of patterns
>There is no thinking involved, it's all muscle memory.
Make up your mind if you're talking in absolutes, is it nothing but memorization or all muscle memory
>>340272967
So let me get this straight, something which is "solveable" is easy even when it's humanly impossible to do? You "only multiplayer games are difficult" fags so fucking dumb, it's incredible. Hell, I'm willing to bet you're just as shit at multiplayer as you are at single player.
>>340273063
They are the same thing.
>>340272967
PvP is solveable tho
>>340273131
>memorization and muscle memory are the same thing
So you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, got it
>>340271170
Console niggers happened.
>>340273129
>impossible to do
>lmao its difficulty
Do you have brain problems?
>>340273141
No, games are solvable.
>>340273203
No, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
>>340273302
Humanly impossible, dipshit. It's not literally impossible, a computer could do it. Humans just couldn't because they don't have the reflexes and coordination to pull it off.
>>340273373
If a computer can do it, a human can do it.
>>340273427
That's an idiotic statement. Human reaction times are downright pathetic compared to a machine which can perfectly read frames
>>340273494
If it's a set pattern then it can be learned and therefore solved. If it's random you just have to grind it until you get lucky.
If it can be done, it will be done. Stop being so fucking bad at things.
>>340273302
>no u
Great comeback, faggot.
>>340273427
Tell that to chess and Quake 3 players. The whole point of machines that we've created is that they're inhumanly precise.
At this point you're either legit retarded or just baiting.
>>340271170
What happened is Witcher 3 is a colossal game cluttered with details, and the other RPGs you listed are comparatively minuscule and more focused.
Also you can disable a bunch of that stuff in the options.
>>340271330
>I enjoy the handholding, I play singleplayer games to turn my brain off.
ladies and gentlemen
gamers in 2016
>>340273663
>If it's random you just have to grind it until you get lucky.
Do you assume this hypothetical game would be a couple of seconds long or something? Humans are shit at consistency, so while they can pull off incredibly precise dodges non-stop for a few seconds, doing it for an hour is pretty much guranteed. And that's only talking about dodges which are reasonable when taking human reaction times into consideration.
>>340273678
>Great comeback, faggot.
Just doing what you did.
>>340273678
Chess is solvable, guess what high level play is? Autists memorizing every game ever played. Fuck all skill involved.
I don't see the point you are trying to make with Quake 3.
>>340273828
You underestimate what can be done when you put in time. Never achieved much in life I assume.
>>340273828
>inb4 the reply is "it can be solved" or "you're just bad at games" or "the game is RNG shit"
>>340273921
>You underestimate what can be done when you put in time.
Put in how much time? Years of practice? Decades? Several lifetimes? Is it still easier than fucking bomberman at that point?
>>340273253
What he said.
>>340273921
>claims it is easy
>need to "put in time"
So it isn't easy then mr faggot.
But hey, you are just baiting while you are waiting for your latest steam purchase to finish downloading.
>>340274016
Yes, your hypothetical game of dodging shit for hours isn't going to be completed by a single person but there isn't any more skill involved than in bomberman.
It's just braindead grinding.
>>340274161
So you think that things are harder the more time you put in even though there is no thinking involved at all?
>>340273771
This
>>340274250
We're not talking about your warped view of what "skill" is, we're talking about difficulty. Stop desperately moving the goalposts in hopes of seeming less retarded.
>>340274324
How is it difficult if it doesn't require skill?
Just swallow your fucking pride and stop replying to obvious bait. He's a contrarian faggot, he'll counter everything no matter how retarded his responses are.
>>340274367
By requiring a huge amount of dedication to be accomplished
>>340274016
You realize that the human body has a physical limitation on how fast it can move/respond, right?
Look at Super Mario 64 speedruns. Played by hand the record is something just shy of 7 minutes for a zero-star run, wheras using TAS to have the computer play the game for you the record is about 5:02.
The reason for that two-minute gap is because some of the inputs needed to finish in that time are so precise the human body literally cannot press them into a controller/keyboard fast enough.
>>340274424
Wouldn't that mean you were skilled at dedication tho
>>340274463
>human body literally cannot press them into a controller/keyboard fast enough.
It can if you somehow predict your future inputs and press them before you actually need to press them
>>340274668
Aside from the fact that video games don't work that way, your keyword is "somehow". You've got burden of proof on what that somehow is, famalam.
>>340274463
No such thing as literally cannot press them. You have ten fingers, they are fucking digital inputs. They are just not autistic enough to put in the time.
>>340274424
So a game that requires you to grind like an autist is hard. MMOs are hard now guys, you heard it here first.
>>340274767
You're not grinding for stats though, you're grinding to be able to keep up with the fast pace of the game. Also do you think you're being clever by calling it a grind? Any kind of practice is a grind, even practice for multiplayer games.
>>340274762
I forgot /v/ works like a court
>>340274843
The dumbest choice can be the right one at certain times when playing against another human. When there are no other people involved there is always a best choice, you just have to do it over and over and over again until you get it right. Absolutely braindead.
>>340274767
Fambroni are you saying that if beating a game required you to alternate between the A and B buttons at a rate of -exactly- 101.053 presses per second, that your body is physically capable of actually doing that? Not even Bruce Lee was that fast, and he was pretty much the fastest there was.
>>340274910
Totes def famjambulous. Still doesn't change that you can't press buttons before you need to press them, because you'd then be pressing them, you know, too early?
>>340275047
Idk i'd think that if you had to do something over and over, you'd have to be actively trying to get it more "right" each time until you got it 100% right. Seems like it'd need a good bit of brainpower to stay that focused.
>>340275047
So what you're saying is that multiplayer requires no skill and is luck based because it rewards dumb choices thanks to human error? Gotcha.
>>340275086
>because you'd then be pressing them, you know, too early?
If you think about pressing a button before actually needing it, you're triggering the delay that your brain imposes therefore you actually jump at the right moment
>>340275086
You don't visit /twg/ by any chance do you?
>>340275086
>>340275196
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
it's like predicting the green sceen here. You click before it actually becomes green so when you actually phyisically click you get a rection time of like 40ms
This thread is fucking autism. The only way you can win against that retard saying single player games take zero skill is to get him to stream a hard game like ninja gaiden and laugh as he fails.
>>340271170
Playing devil's advocate here, but part of the reason why handholding has become so common is increased graphical fidelity. Level artists clutter the place with massive amounts of detail and it can potentially obscure the proper path to take. Old 3d games in the 90's often had rooms or hallways that didn't have any furniture or other objects at all. Finding a tiny key in a big room is easy when it's just 6 sides with 3 textures.
But small things aren't hard to find in real life are they? Navigation isn't hard in the real world! -That's right. But the real world is actually 3d. You have two eyes looking at a three dimensional world. Games that you play on a 2d display are missing that constant dimension of information. You can only get that from parallax movement and that isn't as reliable as true stereo vision.
>>340275196
You're giving a lot of credit to the human brain if you think that delay will allow you to make hundreds of frame-perfect inputs in the span of a couple of seconds, flamajamma.
>>340275204
Naw, prob some other dood doing the "how many variations of senpai can i fit in my post" shtick.
>>340275293
1000/40 is 25 fambro. If a game requires you to make 100 millisecond-perfect inputs in a single second, you'd be physically unable 2 do so.
>>340275441
I think you are just making excuses, Gothic 2 while looking like shit also had foliage and clutter, just not good looking one
And yet there was zero handholding and certainly there was not a condition to progress the game like being forced to activate the witcher sense and click the glowing bits otherwise the prompt does not appear
>>340275441
That would only explain specific kinds of handholding that involve digging through trash to find the objects you need though you'd still need to explain all the other kinds of hand holding. In fact graphical fidelity should have removed things like quest markers because the amount of detail developers can put into their games would make things like NPC descriptions very reliable when navigating a game world.
>>340275395
It's a battle of wits and willpower of who can keep throwing bullshit points at the other person the longest. You have to keep the pointless arguing going, otherwise you've let the other guy win!
>>340271330
You must play MMOs :(
I bet you like them to be "balanced" with an "equal playing field" for "competitive" play don't you?
>>340275395
>not enjoying pointless arguments
shakes my head to be honest
>>340271170
This happened.
baka
>>340275395
>hard game
>platforming shit
Oh god, is this the neo-/v/ you people have been spamming about?
>>340275704
I don't.
>>340275871
>the dota AI is easy for me
>therefore all AI is easy
>>340275947
MOBAS are also for the braindead, are you going to say CoD next?
>>340271170
I definitely didn't like this when I played Witcher 3
>>340276008
God, do they really require you to activate the vision before you can check the clue?
>>340275982
Seems like a game for you mr "I want to turn my brain off when playing" (as if it was even on in the first place LMAO)
>>340271170
bloodlines was unfinnished pile of bugs at least in witcher 3 they fixed the bugs
>>340276125
When playing singleplayer games. It's really hard to talk with you people when you can't even read.
>>340275871
>ninja gaiden
>platformer
I was talking about the new one famalam, that one is harder. Though I doubt you could play the old one either.
>>340275613
>>340275660
I agree. I'm just using Thief as an example of this specific type of handholding. For example in the Dark Project you need to find a key and there are no clues on how to find it. The only reason why you do find it without much effort is that the carpet texture is so low-res that you can easily spot the key lying on the floor. Modern games (some of them) have much higher resolution textures and just that fact alone can hide a small object lying on the ground. Parallax textures even create illusions of many 3d shapes which can further obscure important objects.
Of course the solution to this problem shouldn't be "yellow highlighting" but in the case of a game like Thief, documents or NPC conversations that hint an objects location. It's a much more satisfying gameplay experience to do your own research to narrow down the location of an item, and then search for yourself. And of course none of the games today do that because it takes effort.
>>340276382
Sorry "friend", no one's buying that. A total scrub in single player will also be a total scrub in multiplayer
>>340271170
>>340271170
They were lazy when it came to implementing investigations, didn't want to have to think hard about placing interaction markers. That's what happened.
I don't care much. I'd prefer if they didn't do what they did though. Just disable red and replace it with orange like all other interaction colors. That'd be a great mod.
>>340276505
More excuse, in that case you make false leads to allow the player to fail.
The player CANNOT fail in the witcher 3.
>>340276121
Yeah, it really sucks
>>340276490
>prefering one to the other
>can't do the other
I wonder how do you function in life, does your mother remind you not to forget to breathe every once in a while?
>>340276397
Wouldn't know, don't care about the series.
>>340276630
Just stop comparing it.
>>340276673
>hiding behind "preferences"
lol as if it isn't obvious to anyone who isn't absolute trash at video games that you have the mentality of a scrub
>>340271330
i'm not typically some sensationalist retard who cares how other people play their games but honestly this is literally what the end of videogames looks like in one post
>>340272967
>skill in PvP
No, there is money involved in PvP, the amount of skill involved is objectively lower. Anyone who has gamed before the console era really kicked in will tell you this.
PvP always ends up being "only human".
>>340276823
Says the one who hides behind "hard" singleplayer games. You have much to learn, child.
>>340276505
? You don't need to show it. The player beating the segment shows that he is capable of seeing those things in his surroundings and that's how it should be.
>>340274250
>So you think that things are harder the more time you put in even though there is no thinking involved at all?
Ya, slash's guitar skills, the twitch reaction of an oldschool quake pro, the precision of a racing driver, the technical skill of a ballroom dancer etc. etc. are "just" time intensive.
In fact you can't name a single human "skill" that can't be learned "with enough time" by an able bodied human. Everything is just a time investment to reach the point where you have internalized the entire process.
Your entire argument is just playing with semantics "hur what does skill even mean".
Go end yourself.-
>>340271170
I don't like the witcher -vision because they rely on it way too much. Wouldn't have any problem with it if you could examine stuff without being in the vision -mode.
Still one of my absolute favorite games ever.
>>340274668
>somehow predict your future inputs
But you can't, so your point is moot. You got btfo buddy.
>>340273253
this t b h
>>340277213
>In fact you can't name a single human "skill" that can't be learned "with enough time" by an able bodied human
I don't play guitar so I can't speak for Slash but if you think all top Quake players play the same I have nothing to say to you.
>>340277114
>no ur hiding!!!!
Looks like you're as bad at responses as you are at video games, do us all a favor and kys buddy
>>340271170
To be fair while the exploration element has less hand holding the combat was so fucking boring and clunky.
I'm waiting for the day we can have the dialogue options and exploitative elements of old school rpg's with actually interesting combat.
That would be great.
>>340277505
Not while you keep responding like the moron you are.
>>340275047
>multiplayer requires skill because you can win with dumb choices
You heard it here first.
Also completely wrong, that line of thinking only works on low end PvP where the "bad move" isn't recognized as such by the opponent. It is called a dumb choice because it is dumb, not because it is smart.
Chess is a game with perfect moves, if a bad move gets you ahead it is simply because the opponent didn't recognize it as a abd move.
Starcraft is another game in which the closer you get to pro play, the closer you get to perfect play.
Dumb choices winning games shows you the limitation of humans, not the excellence of them.
>>340277571
Is getting those (you)'s the only thing keeping you in this life? That's pretty pathetic family
>>340277258
the funny thing is if you're paying attention you can see tracks and shit in the dirt without witcher mode
i think they realized it would be too difficult for consoles to be able to see those textures since they'd turn too muddy on a console's lower quality everything, so Witcher Sense was born.
>>340277609
>starcraft
>dumb shit like bunker rush never works
Please stop.
>>340277450
>if you think all top Quake players play the same I have nothing to say to you.
>I can't understand what someone said in extremely basic English
Aah, I now understand the REAL problem here. You are an ESL person and as such definitions of words like "skill" are alien to you.
ESL-kun you really should pick up some English lessons before shitposting.
>>340277829
>bunker rush
>dumb shit
>bunker rush
>always works
Please ingest bleach.
>>340276008
This is the future you chose
>>340277875
>lmeo pepol nevor do weird thing in quake
You do not understand PvP and that's where the problem is. There is a very big difference between the top Quake players currently dominating and not everyone is relying on their twitch reactions.
>>340278037
See >>340275047
There is thought behind it, you can't just do it like against an AI who will respond the same every time. That is why PvP is superior.
>>340271330
xd XD
haha LOL
>>340278319
Good job being underage.
>>340278246
>That is why PvP is superior.
You mean easier
>>340278246
ESL-kun, you need to read what people say before posting, maybe even consult a dictionary. That way you will avoid arguing with the figments of your imagination and might instead be able to respond properly to what is actually being directed at you.
>>340278096
what's this from?
>>340278352
XDD :^)
>>340271330
/v/ kid 2016: the post
>>340278449
Explain to me how do Quake pros support your argument because right now you just seem retarded.
>>340278487
Warhammer total war
>>340278246
>not everyone is relying on their twitch reactions.
Well then they simply haven't attained perfect play yet.
The entire game is a time investment, learning the maps, learning the spawn times of items, learning the weapons, learning muscle memory for twitch shots.
By your logic Quake requires only time, which according to you can't possibly ever equate to skill.
Like many have pointed out, your entire argument is balanced upon your ambiguous definition (or lack of one rather) of the word "skill".
>>340278862
No, playing against other humans requires thought too. An AI will react the same every single time, they will react perfectly. There is no thought involved, there are no mind games. You can however exploit player tendencies and that's where the difficulty comes from. Adaptation.
>Near limitless options
Until you get to Hollywood
>>340272690
is muscle memory and the ability to apply that muscle memory accurately not a skill?
>>340278826
ESL-kun, you can just scroll up and reread my post. It is really very easy English. If you let me know what tongue you are native in, I can likely translate it for you as I am fluent in all major languages. I will gladly help you stop arguing with yourself.
Focus groups
>>340279110
I read it, you are literally saying fucking nothing. Good contribution to the thread.
>>340279262
ESL-kun, you clearly are having a hard time understanding what people are saying to you, do you want me to help you?
>>340276008
One of the reason I dropped that fucking game.
>>340279315
Go ahead.
>>340279441
What part in what post in particular do you have trouble understanding ESL-kun?
>>340279636
Nothing, rephrase it so you are still adding nothing to the discussion. It's going to be funny I promise.
>>340278978
You're neglecting to take into account games that apply a random factor to their AI, fama-zama.
>>340279764
Random as in picked from a pool that's the same every time or trying to adapt that is just not going to work?
>>340279709
This is very hard for me to do if you don't tell me what you would like me to rephrase ESL-kun.
I am under the impression that you think I am someone you have been arguing with. I am not, I merely entered the thread to point out how shit your English skills are ESL-kun.
"I wish my legs were more broken"
>>340279929
You've been stalling and bumping the thread. At least I have the courtesy to not do the latter.
>>340279817
Regarding the former even if it's a pool you'd still have no way of knowing ahead of time which particular option it's going to pick. Theoretically, there could be hundreds of random options it could choose from for any given action you could take.
Regarding the latter you seem to be making a broad assumption that it simply "is just not going to work".
I'm all out of alternate ways to say familia.
>>340280034
ESL-kun, I am kindly offering my help so that you may improve on your English. Why would an intelligent person turn down such an offer?
>>340271170
Isn't this because maps are larger now? When you think about masquerade, one hub contains like what, 10 different buildings? How hard is it to find your objective based on descriptions in a map like that compared to a huge map like witcher's?
>>340280159
First one isn't going to work because it's responding to specific situations therefore it can be exploited. The second one won't work because simply we adapt faster.
>>340280190
You are dodging like the singleplayer shitters do. Go on.
>>340280454
ESL-kun, I wish you would just point out what post you would like me to explain to you. From what I gathered you have basically been the only person in this thread everyone is arguing with. My language skills don't allow me to magically know which posts you have trouble understanding. Of course I can safely assume it would be the vast majority of them, but I simply don't have the time to transcribe ~130 posts into simplified English for you.
>>340280232
Idk funny-alternate-way-of-saying-senpai, I feel it'd be a bit hard to exploit theoretically hundreds of random outcomes. If anything an AI that chose from a massive pool of responses is the same as playing against a human. Just as you could predict and in turn respond/exploit how an AI may react to what you do, you can exploit a human. The whole point of the random factor is to replicate how you can never 100% predict how a human will react.
You also seem to be forgetting about that scientific principle that as tech advances we'll one day have AI that can self-improve faster than humans can. That and the fact that lots of people are honestly p stupid and may not have the chops to keep up with an advanced AI.
>>340273253
>>340280683
I told you, explain everything. Rephrase it like I'm a toddler.
>>340280776
It can't be random, that's just retarded. There would be specific answers to specific situations.
>>340271330
the internet has completely ruined the ability for single player games to provide a challenge.
>>340280975
ESL-kun, why are you refusing to point out the post? Are you embarrassed?
>>340281090
Your first post talking about slash and quake pros, I didn't read your tl;dr autism sorry.
i find it hard to believe that so many autists give a shit about what games other people enjoy
>>340280975
You could still have a broad, random pool of responses for a given situation.
"The player is shooting at me" could easily have over 100 different possible results, with a range of things like "stand still and shoot back", "dive roll to the left while shooting", "duck behind this small wall, pop head up occasionally to shoot", "dash around corner while dropping a grenade at where i was standing", etc.
All of these would be perfectly valid responses to being shot at by the player, and if the AI just chose one randomly you'd have to react to it on the fly, General Faam.
>>340281150
See, this is what I am talking about when I say that you are arguing with yourself. I have not made a post like that, something I already said here:
>>340279929
>I am under the impression that you think I am someone you have been arguing with. I am not, I merely entered the thread to point out how shit your English skills are ESL-kun.
In simple English for you:
I am not that person.
Your bad English skills seem to make you believe everyone who responds to you must be the same person. 4chan is not a 1on1 chat room ESL-kun.
>>340281549
This is why I've been using senpai-ham and other family-word derivatives in all my posts. It helps me stand out to the people I'm arguing with without having to stoop to using a trip.
>>340281423
So it would do subpar shit just for the sake of being random? Get raped.
>>340281549
Just explain it the post then, why are you still dodging?
>>340281856
I am not dodging ESL-kun, I simply have no idea what post you are having trouble with out of the plethora of posts in this thread. Since you seem to be having trouble understanding me I will spell out to you what I need.
give me a postnumber
That's right, all I need is for you to reference the post you want me to help you understand. Something I have been asking for since the start.
>>340281856
It would do subpar shit because 90% of the AAA industry is subpar shit at this point, familyman. Most AAA AI boils down to "randomly pick a response from a 5-10 action long list" because it's easier and cheaper to code than AI that actually prioritizes various decisions based on effectiveness.
alsowowrudei'dneverwishyou'dgetrapedeventhoughithinkyou'reanidiot,that'sjustmeandood.
Also, I'm going to sleep, I have to wake up in 8 hours. Have fun never enjoying video games, I guess?
>>340282130
Sure, go ahead with >>340277213
>>340282172
No, it would do subpar shit because it's programmed to do subpar shit.
>>340271170
Vampire still shows you a use icon if you get close to the fire place.
Literally KYS if shit like that makes you feel "intelligent"
>>340271170
I like the Witcher 3 but this is absolutely it's most glaring flaw. I understand why the game holds your hand so much with regards to quest tracking because finding certain things in the fuck huge world, especially cities, is a potential nightmare but surely there was a better way to handle this.
>>340277213
In simple English:
A lot of different skills only require a lot of time to master.
You can not name anything that can not be learned with enough time.
Every skill can be mastered in time.
Your argument is based on a bad understanding of word definitions.
You don't know what the word skill means.
Go kill yourself.
>>340271170
You can turn all of that off nigga
>>340283147
I don't see how that literally nothing reply does anything to my argument. It's just talking in circles.
>>340283229
He is telling you that your premise of "time investment=/=skill" is wrong because "time investment=skill".
You have been making posts saying that, for instance, shmups are easy "no skill, no thinking" games because it is all muscle memory and twitch reactions that can be learned in time, whereas PvP games require skill because it requires inherent skill and thought that can not be learned in time.
He is refuting this point of yours by arguing that everything can be learned in time, and that therefor both the shmup as the PvP game can be equally hard or easy. That PvP does not necessarily make a game hard or skillful, nor a lack of PvP necessarily make a game easy or unskillful. You invest time in practice and you get good. Time invested translates to skill, both in PvP as non-PvP games.
He then tells you to kill yourself.
Hope I was of help and that you will waste less time arguing with yourself in the future.
>>340284052
Most things require mechanical input therefore time wasted grinding muscle memory but that's not skill. Applying it in situations and adapting to your opponent is skill. He thinks that all Quake 3 players play the same since surely there is a best way to play. That's retarded.
>>340284236
Basing the definition of skill around having an opponent is incredibly retarded because the term has always been used for solo activities as much if not more so as activities involving an opponent.
>>340284686
Singleplayer games confirmed requiring more skill since that's the definition casual children prefer.
>>340284978
It's the definition that has always existed, by redefining it to only apply to activities with an opponent you are changing the established definition. Might as well use a new term if you're going for that. How about nu-skill?
>>340285146
Lol you fucking casul shitter git gud lol xD
Am I doing this chan-culture right?
r8 out of 8 m8 pls
2deep5me
>>340284236
>He thinks that all Quake 3 players play the same since surely there is a best way to play.
He doesn't say that anywhere ESL-kun. That is something you imagined into his post due to your poor English skills. It is why I initially said your English is poor and that you were arguing with yourself.
He says all skills can be learned in time. All those different styles of all the different Quake players you mention included. His argument is that "how to adapt to your opponent" can be learned just as readily as learning the patterns in a shmup, or the precision in racing driving, or the technique in ballroom dancing. All you need is time. As such dismissing one as "dumb thoughtless grind" and praising the other as "skill" is wrong. Both are "dumb thoughtless grind" to get to a point where one can be considered "skilled".
He (correctly from a linguistic pov) points out that your idea of the definition of the word "skill" is incorrect. From what I have seen in this thread you are throwing around that word thinking it means something more along the lines of "inherent talent". However the word "skill" does not carry a definition along those lines.
You believe words to mean things they do not. You read things into posts that were not said or even implied. You have trouble understanding what is being said to you and lastly you have trouble expressing yourself unambiguously. It all boils down to your English being too poor to attempt to have an argument with.
I would like to believe this is just you baiting with a "just pretending to be retarded" line of thought, but that would mean you are willingly acting like an ESL person. I have trouble believing a native would willingly portray themselves as ESL.
>>340285527
How can they be learned if the player with the best map control can't outaim the best aimlord?
Do you think they are slacking? Not putting in the time?
>>340285840
Of course. Or are you going to say otherwise and completely undermine half of your posts in this thread?
>>340285840
Once again your poor English is hindering you in your arguments. You throw around pronouns and expect the reader to magically know what it is you are referring to.
>How can <they> be learned if the player with the best map control can't outaim the best aimlord?
What is "they" referring to here? Skills? If that is what you meant to say then the answer to your question was already answered; by investing time. Both aiming and map control can be learned in time. They are skills you can acquire by investing time. Twitch reactions in shooters are based on muscle memory, you gain muscle memory by sinking hundreds if not thousands of hours into the gamethe funny thing about this is that muscle memory requires 0 thought by defintion, something you were accusing the "mindless SP" games ofThe tippiest of tip top level quake plays rely heavily on precise map knowledge, more so than they do on twitch aiming. This precise map knowledge is another skill that can be learned by sinking thousands of hours into a game. Every quake related skill (and for that matter ANY skill) can be learned, all you need is time.
>>340280864
>muh roll souls
Fuck you.
>>340287240
fucku2
>>340273771
Makes sense, the secret world needed witcher senses as well
