Why is Heroes generally considered an average game if it is better, longer, and has better gameplay mechanics and structure than the Adventure series? Is it just because there wasn't a Chao Garden?
>>340205889
Because the controls are ass.
moving around feels super slippery and loose.
Best 3D Sonic game, I love replaying this game, the controls are horrid though but it adds to the thrill
>>340206497
I played the fuck out of this game, so I think I've gone blind to that feeling. I remember switching to Knuckles and Tails (particularly Tails) made precision jumping way easier so I made a habit of doing that.
>>340206950
If yo jump immediately after landing you can sometimes go really high up and youll lose your landing momentum. Controls are great and are very versatile, only problem is that rails sometimes are invisible and you can fall thru them. Its one of my favorite games of all time, best sonic and best 3D platformer
>>340205889
It wasn't polished well enough before it was released but it was the last "good" main sonic release.
It's because it was the first one to be on PS2, and Sega fanboys were completely butthurt.
That said, the PS2 version is the worst because it looks and performs like shit.
>>340205889
> A game is "better" because "it's longer, better gameplay, mechanics" and structure" ~ by faggot OP
No, it's not. Heroes is definitely not as good as your "average" Sonic game;
> longer
That's not a plus. It's longer because levels end up lasting 10+ minutes, that's too long for a game about "going fast".
> better
No it's not. At least from Sonic's gameplay in the Adventure series perspective, it's far worse than it was previous to that game. botched momentum, worse rail switching, awkward controls, and overall shit gimmick. At least you can skip mech shooting and hunting at some points, you're forced to play "teammate" 100% throughout gameplay.
The game's plus is only its visuals, it's my second favorite looking 3D Sonic game. But other than that, its sucks pretty badly at times. Btw, I like Unleashed more than SA2.
>>340205889
>no chao garden
well now I'm definitely not going to play it
WHAT GOES UP
MUST COME DOWN
SHIT! URAH! HEUGH!
Ever heard of Sonic Heroes' jumping sounds?
I thought these sounded like dog barks, and I always thought it was someone else's dog barking wherever I played the game while jumping.
>>340205889
The controls are crippled, even running down a slope is faulty
I've read an article where supposedly Sega got "blackmailed" by Sony into making a port for the PS2(otherwise "never having another Sonic game on a Sony console"), and then the team proceeded to build everything on a different engine(fucking Renderware).
It still runs the worst on it lmao
It's only really longer because of recycled environments which you're meant to play four times over.
Heroes was tite tho
>>340205889
>Bingo Highway
>good
SOONICC HEEROOOWWWWWWSSSS
>>340205889
>remember that Amy was a complete monster in this game
"IM GOING TO MARRY YOU SONIC"
proceeds to push him off a 80 story building
>>340212109
He's survive that. Remember the time she said that if she had to choose between losing Sonic and letting the end of the world happen, she'd let the end of the world happen? I guess I can kind of understand that, though, since she doesn't really have any other reason for existing.
The only two teams that should exist are Dark and Chaotix. Sonic is Dark Lite, and Rose is Sonic Lite.
>>340205889
>Longer
It's easy to be longer when you're forced to run through easy mode, normal mode, hard mode, and trash mode variants of every level in the game in order to beat it.
SHIT
ROCK
EAUUURRRGGHHH
>Controls suck
>Levels are too long for a Sonic game, overstay their welcome.
>Tedium from having to beat the game 4 times.
>Enemy health bars slow the pace of the game to a crawl
>Special Stages are annoying to get to, and go from being impossible to beat to beaten in 6 seconds once you know to use Power formation.
>Graphics are a downgrade from Adventure 2, despite appearing on more powerful hardware.
>No cool reward for A ranking everything.
>Team Chaotix mission gameplay is the precursor to Shadow's annoying missions for branching paths.
GEE I WONDER WHY
>>340205889
It's classic Sonic Team in that they designed a fine game that plays well, but loaded it full of side characters no one gives a fuck about (at least in a main story context).
I still hope they revisit the series and keep it down to Sonic, Tails, and maybe one other character.
>>340212547
She pushed him off an 80 story high building to show how much she loves him. This bitch is crazy in heros and I understand why Sonic doesn't want to get the pucci
>>340205889
It had some of the worst fucking boss battles in history
"Fight this same flying robot bird six times with almost no variation to it for each new fight"
"Enjoy the game's shitty controls as you fight one of the other teams with equally shitty controls."
"Mob rush"
fuck me, at least Chaos from Adventure actually changed up the battle every time you fought it
This game is pretty.
>>340212826
>Team Chaotix mission gameplay is the precursor to Shadow's annoying missions for branching paths.
>Hating doing more than just "kek go to the goal ring in a linear fashion"
Why is this allowed? Some Chaotix missions were bad, I will give you that, but when it worked it worked.
>>340213019
I think they just didn't want to have to complete a mission mode in order to get to the final boss.
Because it was the same game 4 times.
Sonic Adventure 1 was the same game like 8 times
Sonic Adventure 2 was the only above average game.
>>340212838
She's a crazy obsessive stalker in every game. Maybe slightly less so in Adventure 1. But still a crazy obsessive stalker. Sonic should get a restraining order.
Sonic Adventure
>6 stories which all use variations of the same levels but play differently, 1 secret story/final boss, chao garden
Sonic Adventure 2
>2 stories with completely different levels and 3 different types of gameplay, 1 secret story with 1 new level and 2 boss fights, even better chao garden
Sonic Heroes
>5 stories with the exact same levels/gameplay, 1 secret boss, no chao garden
SA2 will always be the best.
>>340212868
I kind of miss when Sonic games games just slapped on pretty stock backgrounds. Gorgeous 3D backgrounds are cool but so much work goes into them and their all ran by. Though it really makes you appreciate the work they do.
>>340205889
Length isn't a virtue if it comes from making you replay the same stages four times to see the game's proper ending. Even putting that aside, the game only has 14 unique levels compared to Adventure 2's 32, and a mere 3 more than Adventure 1's 11.
>love SA2
>first game on the GC
>played that shit daily, played Chao Garden and all
>never unlocked Green Hill Zone
>A new day brings new adventure
>But for now...
>Rest easy heroes.
Was Heroes already planned during SA2's development?
LET'S BLAST THROUGH WITH SONIC SPEED!
>>340214286
OKAY!
>>340213684
SA2 does not have 32 unique levels. A lot of hero/dark levels are just retreaded on each other
>>340209786
Who actually played that piece of shit?
>>340213940
Maybe it was early concepts and how they wanted to integrate all the characters together instead of sending them on their own missions
>>340213940
>never get a glorious bittersweet ending like SA2 again
>everything will be comical
Shadow wasn't planned to come back, but fan demand made it happen. I remember thinking about how cool it'd be to see them react to seeing him alive again, but there was nothing.
Shadows death probably would have hailed him as a pretty top tier character here at /v/ had he stayed dead.
Beat my high score bruh
>>340214516
No, they're not. There isn't a single level in the game that you go through twice. Even when two characters get a level in the same general location, the levels are completely different.
>>340215008
wrong thread friend
Terrible controls
Terrible enemy and combat design
Team mechanic was poorly utilized, rather than using it with any ingenuity, they just stuck in "the big enemy that Knuckles has to punch seven times" and "the part where Tails has to shoot the target". The levels didn't benefit from it, they became more saggy and weighed down.
The game spawned several bad habits that would plague the series for years. I can seriously go on forever about how awful the combat in this game was and how negatively it impacted the series for half a goddamn decade.
It's shit. It's always been shit. I hate it.
>>340213397
She actually calmed down a LOT after Heroes. In 06, she's actually one of like two characters who gets to be kinda cool and doesn't come out of the game completely ruined. And then in Unleashed and Lost World, she's pretty mellow.
Although it is implied she kicks the shit outta Sonic after Black Knight, so. Who knows.
>>340215065
The level design is different sure but the actual themes themselves are the same.
The 2 car levels
Green forest and white jungle
Sky rail and pumpkin hill
Crazy gadget, eternal engine, lost colony
Metal harbor and weapons bed
Radical highway and mission street
Death chamber and egg quarters
Final rush and final chase
Prison gate and eggmans first level
Sand ocean and hidden pyramid (whatever the tails one was called)
If we really want to branch then dry lagoon is just a retextured wild canyon and security hall may very well be a retextured aquatic mine since those are only the vertical, closed off treasure hunting stages.
What heroes does is hardly different. The different teams serve as difficulty modes. Shorter easier levels with less enemies and difficult sections with team rose and harder longer levels with more enemies and spawn variations and cut up levels with team dark. Team sonic rests in a comfy medium between those two and team chaotix is like a whole new game on its own. Heroes levels and assets are way to grand to just use once and throw away
>emphasis on teamwork
>no co-op multiplayer
>>340213940
>A new day brings new adventure
>But for now...
>Rest easy heroes.
Fuck, man.
They could've ended the series there and they would've gone out as gods.
>>340215675
The only times amy was obsessive was parts of sa1, sa2, and heroes. I dont remember a lot of sonic x but i think she was like sa1 amy there. Everything else is true, shes cool in 06, unleashed, and lost world. I think the storybook games just heavily play up on the fanservice and everyones exaggerated a bit in those but she was cool as the princess in black knight
I couldn't get all the chaos emeralds
>>340215813
They're still completely different levels. Just because two levels are vertical or use the same location doesn't mean that they're the same when the layout is completely different. In Heroes, all of the levels that the teams go through actually are the exact same. The only difference is that Team Rose only has to go through a fragment of it instead of the whole thing and team Chaotix does missions. But they all take place in the same levels with the same layout. How is that hardly different from what SA2 does? It's actually completely different.
The only part of the game that was good was the soundtrack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03AuYh3WbYI
>>340216283
It's easier with Team Rose and with Power characters.
>>340205889
i only play team rose because otherwise the game's levels drag on
>>340216462
Yeah, if you switch to Big it becomes retarded easy.
Adventure (and to a far lesser extent 2) had that "we don't know what we're doing but we're gonna try our best" charm to them. Despite their issues they controlled pretty well generally speaking. It feels good to play.
Heroes doesn't have that charm. It feels like a committee-designed game with zero soul. They also felt a lot worse in the controls department. Sonic straight up feels bad to play as, when I tried to replay Heroes a while back I pretty much defaulted to Knuckles just because he wasn't infuriatingly slow like tails or borderline uncontrollable like sonic.
Speaking of Knuckles they made a serious fucking mistake with this game that stuck with the franchise for a long time: adding combat. It slows the pace to a crawl and makes finishing a level far more tedious than it needs to be
There's also the special stages. They are probably the worst I've ever played in any Sonic game. I can't even get into specifics why but they just felt so bad to play. The fact that actually getting into one is far harder than it is in the average sonic game doesn't feel like a good change.
But really, the worst thing about Heroes is that there's a clear devolution from Adventure to it in having the multiple gameplay styles. In Adventure, you could do any story whenever you wanted (after you unlocked them, I mean.) If you don't want to play as Amy or Big, then yes you will need to finish them to complete the game, but you can put them off to last or rush through them in the middle of doing the tails section. In Adventure 2 they're all combined into one story, but at least they're still individual stages so if you don't want to do an Eggman stage you can look forward to the Shadow one afterwards.
In Heroes they're all combined into the same stage. Were you having a great time using Sonic? Too bad you're forced into a Tails section now. If the combat screwed up the pacing of a stage then this change absolutely killed it.
WE ALL DANCED IN FIRE
TRAPPED IN THIS MACHINE
>>340216709
>>340216324
The enemy spawns are the biggest difference. In team rose there is more platforms or things that catch you, its generally safer and easier. Team dark or sonic replaces these with more pits, jumping, or harder enemy spawns. You are right that the levels are same and most of the layout is the same but its not the exact same. SA2 simply reused its areas better is all. Team dark and sonic could be argued as pretty much the same thing but rose and chaotix are a lot more different.
Heres the thing I dont get. Why do people act like you have to rush through the game all in a day? I remember playing it like this. Start a new campaign with a new team, beat in a few days. Take a break for a few days, play other things or go outside and ride bikes or play with nerf guns with friends. Come back and start another team. Beat it, break. Repeat. Go back for A ranks and chaos emeralds. Oh shit theres a final boss? Better do this. Finish game.
I can see why the game would really drag on if you tried to do everything in it in one day but really if you pace it properly and dont rush through its a very fun game and quite lengthy
>>340205889
>required combat
slow as fuck
>flight mode
slow as fuck
>playing the same levels 4 times and doing the special stages just to beat it
shit game
>>340206497
So like your mother?
>>340205889
I loved SA1 and 2. I couldn't get past the first few levels of heroes. Maybe I had just outgrown sonic by the time it came out, but it just felt like a shitty game.
All of my want for a Chao-mon game.
>>340215813
If being in the same location somehow makes 2 levels the same despite not sharing actual layouts, then Heroes only has 7 levels, and the genesis games and any other sonic game that uses the "acts" structure is suddenly a lot shorter as well
>>340205889
Because you have to play through the same set of levels four fucking times with almost nothing changing besides enemy placement or terrible objectives as Chaotix
>>340213667
>stock
Sonic Team takes every photograph they use in their games.
Why have they never made another game iwth a chao garden? you'd think such a popular feature would make it into later games. Did they just not want to put in the effort?
>>340216758
I would have mentioned this in the first post but it was running too long so since you mentioned it in the OP; No, the chao gardens being absent are not an issue with Heroes. Hell I personally never liked them in the Adventure games either.
>>340211167
I forgot to mention this but yeah it's really, really bad how they just force you to do the same stages four times over. Adventure only had like 13 areas I think but the stages between them were at least notably different unlike in Heroes. And it's not like in say Mario 64 where they did anything interesting with the reused stages and gave you multiple ways to really play them. Chaotix tried I guess, but they failed miserably if you ask me.
>>340215813
Going by that logic, the original Super Mario Bros. has four levels.
>>340216326
>not ocean palace
>disappoint
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MHiUO5YxLOk
>>340217389
Companies save certain things when times are toughest
Sonic has been slowly fading out of relevance for the last 5 years. Boom was another shitstain, even if it was just a tie in spinoff game to promote a tv show on the wii u, its mark was made.
Theyre saving the chao garden for when they REALLY need it to make a big wave
>>340217028
>>340217582
>5 years
lmao?
Making a game doesn't make you relevant. Sonic hasn't been relevant in well over a decade
If Sonic Team makes a Generations 2, which level from Heroes would you like to see?
I want Egg Fleet, but with less reused level design.
>>340217420
Dont even start this. Levels in SA1 with other characters just reuse sonics areas. Knuckles sky deck, speed highway, casinopolis. Bigs emerald coast. Amys twinkle park and final egg. Tails everything. Gammas emerald coast, windy valley, and final egg.
>>340217796
Nah. Even when times were tough between 2005-2007 there was still lots of sonic fans and activity. And there was still lots of games for fans to talk about, sonic x to watch, comics to discuss etc. 06 gave a lot of publicity. Kids ate up the storybook games on the wii. Unleashed is one of the best selling games, highly divisive but any actual fan knows its one of the best designed and greatest games in the series. The DS had rush quietly fighting on the sidelines.
There was lots of sonic activity in games, amongst fans, fanart, deviantart, internet groups etc. There has barely been anything games wise to talk about since 2011. Just some exclusives for the wii u, a console no one owns or cares for. And one of them is the 06 of this generation.
You may not pick up on these things because youre not a real sonic fan, but fan activity and forums were bursting with sonic love and discussion from the early 2000s up until just before 2010.
>>340217462
Five, not four.
>>340216930
No. Any way you explain it, the differences between levels that use the same assets in SA2 like Pumpkin Hill and Sky Rail and the difference between going through the same levels 4 times with slightly different enemy placement isn't comparable. It makes absolutely no sense to say that the difference between Pumpkin Hill and Sky Rail is the same or even just "slightly better" than the difference between Seaside Hill, Seaside Hill with slightly more enemies, Seaside Hill: Demo version, and Seaside Hill where you have to collect 10 crabs. If anything, that's maybe comparable to the 5 missions each of the 32 stages in SA2 has. But not to two completely different stages that just have pumpkins in it.
>>340215008
That's a strange looking Sonic game.
What was his fucking problem?
>>340218689
I never called them the same levels (sa2). They just use the same areas with some different color or time of day. Heroes does reuse most of its levels in the same fashion generally but its only a problem if like i said, you for some reason feel the need to 100% the game in one day. Try playing a few levels or just a team and then hold off for a bit if you find it so painful to go through. If you actually like the game and levels then it wont be an issue but if you have problems going through it so often, then dont. I dont get why this is so hard to understand
>>340209829
YET MY FEET DON'T TOUCH THE GROUND
>>340212838
He's survived falls from atmospheric height with literally no injury.
>>340219235
The same logic could be applied to replaying the game, or any game for that matter, wholesale.
>>340219652
Exactly. This goes beyond games. If you do the same thing in the same pattern with different variation (eg, taking a different path to school or work, or eating something different for dinner) youll feel the repetition. Take a break and make an effort to do things in a different order otherwise...no shit everything will feel the same. This applies to sonic heroes, to all video games, and to anything in life
>>340212109
Gameplay and story segregation. The point of the fight was to stop Sonic in order to interrogate him about the newspaper photo, but Sonic freaked out because of Amy, so he run away of there.
>>340205889
The problem was they stopped using the SA2 engine because Sony wanted Sega to make Sonic games for the PS2, so they made that Heroes and Shadow engine that nobody liked
Hopefully one day we can extract the levels and port them to SADX or SA2.
SIMPLE CURIOSITY
>>340220006
An understandable reaction to a crazy girl who will scream about wanting to marry you and then push you off an 80 story building, I'd say.
>>340220174
TRY TO TAKE A BITE OF ME
>>340205889
I didn't like how all teams share the same stages. once you finish one team's route that pretty much everything.
>>340220174
Metal Sonic has some cool quotes.
>See me as I am, no longer afraid of anything! I shall become the ultimate overlord, ruling as the world's most supreme being!
>Sonic, I was created for the sole purpose of destroying you. But I could never seem to defeat you! That's why I transformed my own body with my own hands.
>WHY? I HAD IT ALL. I am the ultimate overlord, Metal Sonic! I AM THE REAL SONIC!
>How appropriate to have a robot overlord rule a robot kingdom!
>>340220174
Real talk, i miss the anime influences sa1-unleashed had with the shonen stuff and power levels and epic god battles and all that. Homing attacking eggman in a shitty robot going down a straight line and quickstepping a simple attack just doesnt have the same oomph as an ending...
>>340220707
22nd of june
>>340217802
Hang Castle or Mystic Mansion
The haunted motif is rare in Sonic so it would be a welcome addition.
>>340205889
>tfw this was my first video game
>tfw I still think it was the greatest thing ever
>>340217389
>they bring back chao garden>mobile companion app with microtransactions
>>340221447
No regrets bro. I bought it just because i thought the cover was awesome and there was some toys at mcdonalds for it.
>>340205889
FOUR IDENTICAL PLAYTHROUGHS
TRY TO REACH INSIDE OF ME
TRY TO DRAIN MY ENERGY
