Wow, thanks for telling me Spec Ops The Line! I never would have figured that out for myself!
I see why people consider this a smart game for smart gamers.
Also the twist literally makes no sense.
>>339727636
>Also the twist literally makes no sense.
Why?
>>339727742
Why are those two guys following a literal crazy guy? What are they thinking when they hear nothing coming from that broken radio?
>>339727825
The army trains you to obey, not to question
That is literally the answer
>>339727905
then his squad wasn't properly trained it seems
>>339727905
>The army trains you to obey, not to question
Really? I thought the US military would have joined the others in the 21st century to train every soldier into being an independent, thinking warfighter, who if required will disobey unlawful orders.
>>339728353
>Who if required will disobey unlawful orders
Have you seen band of brothers? When they didnt want to follow david schimmer into war
It was a whole clusterfuck then they see him like years later still alive
Idk about you but that scene triggered my PTSD
This game is fucking retarded.
"You could have stopped playing the game" is not a valid excuse for the shit that the game forces you to do and blames you for doing.
>>339728528
>ww 2
>21st century
>an entire company refusing to deploy with their company CO is the same thing as a Delta squad realising their leader is completely bonkers
>>339728653
Too artistic for you, I guess
>>339727636
>Literally just a ripoff of Doom: Repercussions of Evil
so how come Spec Ops is so praised, while RoE is laughed at?
>>339728653
Pretty much this.
"Oh you did all these horrible things and you didn't even think about it because murder and violence are desensitized to you now"
It's a game and you gave me no other choices. If there was some kind of early game over where you packed it up and said "fuck it command told us to get out so we are" then people could parade around, but otherwise it's just trying to have its cake and eat it too.
>>339727905
You are lawfully required to disobey unlawful orders under the UCMJ.
You don't question when your team leader tells you to take cover or bound forward or something like that, but you should question him when he tells you to murder civilians or burn a village or something along those lines.
>>339727905
lol no
a game made by idiots who think Soldiers act like robots
they are trained to think for themselves and recognize a commander who has lost his shit, even at the lowest levels of grunt
>>339728653You couldnt save him
>>339728706
feck off
>>339728939
It would have made sense is you actually had a choice. They could've made the morally righteous way of doing it hard as fuck, so that a lot of people would just give up and commit the warcrimes.
>>339729047
It would help you if you'd served in any kind of military, conscription, voluntary, deployed or otherwise. Maybe you'd understand what I'm talking about.
>>339727636
>not understanding the twist
tl;dr Walker is basically schizophrenic and pretty much broken in terms of his mental state. His psychological process did everything in its power to make him believe he was a hero. His two comrades were essentially forced to follow his orders, but they finally disobey right at the end when there's no recovering.
>>339728863
because somebody on the team knew a guy at extra credits, they made a dick sucking episode about it and started a meme
>>339728973
Watch Generation Kill.
>>339729161
>His two comrades were essentially forced to follow his orders
How so? Were they magically bound to do his bidding?
>>339729198
None of the officers or NCOs in Generation Kill did anything illegal, they just made terrible, but lawful, decisions.
>>339729161
But he disobey orders by getting involved at the very start instead of pulling out like the mission said. You don't get to see his descent into madness because he's already fucking up by the time the game starts. All you get to do in the game is watch his try to cover his smaller mistakes with bigger ones because he's an idiot. The whole time your squaddies are telling you that you're crazy and even the player is pretty much done with Walker by the halfway point.
The first thing I did after the twist was go back to where you have to choose which guy to shoot. If you just walk by you get gunned down by your hallucinations. Someone pls explain
>>339729343
I can't remember any of them doing actual, terrible decisions though.
>>339729198
>meme show
>based on a ROLLING STONES reporters work
or i'll ask one of the thousands of soldiers that came back from the war if they would act bonkers if there commander would tell them too
you know, people who actually exists and are not trying to make money over dramatizing a war
>>339728353
>joined the others in the 21st century to train every soldier into being an independent, thinking warfighter,
the American army is almost universally considered to be the greatest source of military leaders in the entire world.
There are millions of anecdotes available where a foreign military unit is amazed at how much more capable an average American infantryman of leading a unit than even their actual officers.I'm a bongistanni soldier and the US' military is probably the best trained group of retards that currently exists.
>>339729537
The CO almost calls an artillery strike on his own men, but he gets the grid wrong because he can barely read a map correctly.
>>339727905
>The army trains you to obey, not to question
Said by a man who has never been in the military. This only applies to shitholes like the Middle-East and some totalitarian states.
>>339729425
you could have killed the snipers to proceed but yeah the twist makes no sense at all anyways.
>>339727825
They're going nuts too.
At first you were trying to save those civilians after you saw them being rounded up by the clearly batshit 33rd. After you end up butchering them and blaming it on everyone but yourself (for walker it's explicitly Konrad, for the other two it's the 33rd) what's left but to rampage onwards for revenge?
Remember Lugo straight up murders the radioman, walker never told him to do that.
Adams can't take everything he's done, and finally does reject walker at the end, shoving him away so he can end his part on his own terms. Before that he was trapped behind enemy lines getting shot at by people who should have been on his side, why wouldn't he stick with the only guys who still are?
>>339729425
There are guys with guns who want to shoot you therw, but maybe you hallucinate where they were and if you had enough time to shoot them or get to cover. Don't think about it too hard, the devs certainly didn't.
>>339728973
lel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
>>339729291
Well they have seen what the 33rd do to their enemies.
The CIA aren't there doing good deeds either.
Good luck trying to get out of the city alone, much less survive the trek across the desert with no supplies and no contact with the outside world.
>>339729682
They follow you because after the sandstorms and getting trapped in Dubai, they can't just evacuate like you all were supposed to at the start of the mission. All they can do is stick by you because everyone else hates you (because Walker is a collosal idiot who fucks everything up).
>>339729794
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
ya they were just ordered to take the village and things escalated from there, on top of the US "cure" for malaria at the time was causing extreme psychosis among the troops
>>339729906
>Good luck trying to get out of the city alone, much less survive the trek across the desert with no supplies and no contact with the outside world.
Pretty sure the whole premise of the mission was to enter the sandstorm, identify if there are any survivors and how many, then report back
Pretty sure they would've had some way of getting back.
>>339727636
A game that critiques war is hailed as revolutionary. As if no other media has done this.
>>339729568
>There are millions of anecdotes available where a foreign military unit is amazed at how much more capable an average American infantryman of leading a unit than even their actual officers.
Can you post some? The Amis were in Finland for the Arrow 16 mechanized excercise and their performance was a tiny bit lacking for conventional warfare, since a lot of them were coming from Iraq's COIN environment and couldn't quite apply the same tactics against well armed Jägers, especially since they didn't have their ever precious combined arms support they base their entire doctrine on.
Also, I thought Americans weren't too big on mission type tactics, so their leadership is more rigid and less efficient in non-optimal situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission-type_tactics
>>339729605
Remember when they JDAMed a peaceful vilage?
>>339729537
>nearly gets his men blown up because he wants medals for making the tough decision to drop ordinance on absolutely nothing
>order a few humvees to take an airfield guarded by Iraqi army tanks and AA because glory - entire unit only saved from certain death because Iraqis fled expecting way worse
>blew up a hamlet filled with civilians despite their own reconnaissance confirming no hostiles
>driving through hostile cities in, again, unarmoured shitty humvees
>captain america attempts yo bayonet two prisoners of war, fails both times because he's just that inconpetent
Probably more, just off the top of my head
>>339730101
They were only supposed to get a very brief overview. The second they got in their first shootout and found the US soldiers getting killed, they should've said "yep there are survivors mission complete let's not fuck around in the ghost city" but the devs wanted a stupid Apocalypse Now thing that doesn't work when you give "control" of the story and the actions to a player.
>>339730140
This
Why do people even like Heart of Darkness or Schindler's List or Spec Ops when The Iliad already existed?
>>339730287
Oh yeah. Christ how it must have sucked to serve under those men. Glad to know that if it ever comes to war for Finland, I'll serve under competent leaders.
>>339727825
I always thought Lugo and Adam were just too far away to hear the conversations. And they quickly reached a point that they were willing to agree with anything if it meant they could come out of it as the heroes.
The ending cutscene with them shrugging was they seeing Walker talk to the radio but not hearing the answer. At least that's how I saw it.
>>339730486
I wouldn't say as heroes, just as alive. They managed to get every faction minus General Revolver (I forget his name) against them and it's clear that even he is fucking up big time too. They end up in the shitty position of having to blast through everything because no one made the right decision to leave before shit got real.
>>339727636
>people consider this a smart game for smart gamers
no, nobody says that. It's a game with a slight amount of effort put into the writing and plot. It's a solid 3rd person shooter with a neat character arc. I played it through once and had fun. It's not trying to be 2deep4u and the only people who claim it is are the retards who don't like it and or didn't understand it and then come here and bitch about it being pretentious and high-minded when it really fucking isn't trying to be.
>>339729794
But US soldiers recognizing the insanity that was happening also worked to stop and end the massacre
>try again retard
>>339730725
You're right. Even Konrad mentions that he also should have left. Still wish they would've handled that part better.
I remember an anon bringing up a really good point about the whole "None of this would've happened if you had just stopped", but I forgot what it was.
>>339731090
Too bad the gameplay is pretty damn awful. If it was good, I might have enjoyed it.
Why do people take this game so personally?
>>339728653
>>339728939
You seem to think the game wants to make you THE PLAYER feel guilty, when it is telling a story about war. I didn't interpret the lack of choice as dumb, because it wasn't supposed to make ME feel bad, it was supposed to be me watching the protagonist feel bad. It's not a game trying to teach a lesson to me about MY actions, its saying something about this guy's actions who I happen to direct through the rigid storyline. Didn't bother me personally.
>>339731242
>pretty damn awful
I don't play many third-person shooters but it felt alright to me. Shooting dudes felt pretty weighty and the enemy types and encounters were varied enough
>>339731431
I just played the demo and recall thinking the gameplay was worse than CoD4 singleplayer.
>>339728353
They do train their soldiers to disregard any orders that are unlawful
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Meyer
Of course, if you disregard your immediate superior's orders, you'd better fucking be right about disregarding them - else you've basically assfucked yourself. It IS a crime to willfully disobey a superior's (lawful) orders, and you can be straight up sentenced to death during wartime.
So in all honesty, it'll never happen within the national guard or the regular military. Only Marines and SEALs would actually do it for whatever reason, and the only reason we heard about the Marine doing it was because he was bestowed the Medal of Honor which is NOT something you can keep private.
>>339731242
It was better than passable. And it wasn't too long. I don't know, it really worked for me. Without the story and the characters I probably would have dropped it, true, but all together, it was a pretty memorable game.
>>339731402
Once you're a hefty part of the way into the game, the loading screen menus break the 4th wall and start directly criticizing the player. It's very much a part of this interpretation of the story/idea that's been tossed around since Heart of Darkness. It's not that people disagree with the story, it's that they try to make the player feel involved by saying that maybe they're the monster, and since there's no choice to not be a monster, it feels really forced and contrived.
>>339731242
>If it was good, I might have enjoyed it.
let's ignore that your opinion doesn't determine wether a game is good or not to anyone but yourself, you self obsessed little kid and focus on how you are even too dumb to properly word yourself. you don't even know if the game is good given that you don't even enjoy good games every time.
>>339731519
Well yeah, CoD4's single-player was the shit back in the day
>>339731402
Exactly. The meta commentary, imo, was too show this character losing his grip, even making the player dissociate themselves with Walker. It's understandable to feel bad in the white phosphorus scene but while some people blame it on the game, even Walker moves the guilt towards Konrad.
>>339731678
not that anon but i don't remember seeing any of those loading screens. only those that are talking about the squad.
HE TURNED US INTO KILLERS
>>339731242
>I would have enjoyed the game as a whole if the gameplay was better
>>339731519
>except I played the demo and didn't actually see any of the game as a whole, only the middling gameplay
>>339731834
The white phosphorous scene is the only actual part where they managed to play their story of "bad consequence for doing what you thought was right" part straight since I don't think any player had negative feelings about using it. Before and after that though, Walker just makes a bunch of stupid mistakes that can only be blamed on his incompetence which doesn't equal good storytelling unless we find out later that he was wrong when we thought he was right, and even then that has to be handled well and not just as a stupid twist pulled only for shock value.
>>339727825
they play on the "bro" in the "dudebro" shooter mentality. they listen to the main character no matter how absurd he is.
>>339727905
No it isnt you moron
The army ordered Konrad to leave with his soldiers but instead Konrad stayed to save the civilians
Of course Konrad regains order but things quickly go to shit, so Walker comes in to "save the day" relentlessly chasing after Konrad getting his men killed
The game is all about NOT following orders and trying to be a hero, which just gets everyone killed
>>339732058
I'm talking about the very core gameplay. The gunplay, movement, enemy actions, everything. It was sub-par and made me drop the demo before finishing it. You don't have to fucking finish a game to tell that its basic gameplay is shit.
You know, you kinda have to look at in the context of the time when it came out.
It was when Call of Duty was at the height of its popularity and everyone was just starting to get sick it. It could very rightfully be accused of trivializing war which is why a game that treated war with an actuall sense of emotional gravity was more then welcome. Even it was incredibly heavyhanded about it.
>>339731519
No way is it worse. If anything they are equal. But at least Spec Ops had an engaging plot. Spec Ops also, in my opinion, had well designed levels that kept you moving and a nice variety of enemy types that kept me on my toes. To each their own, but I really liked this game.
political video games are notorious for taking on easy targets (bioshock went after objectivism, an ideology for high schoolers), but what sets spec ops apart from all the dumb "middle brow" games is that it takes on one of the easiest targets in contemporary culture and actually manages to fuck it up
it's dumber than your average call of duty game and the only reason it saw any success at all was because the retards that surround gaming culture found it easy to talk about
>>339731678
I still don't think the game was trying to blame you or preach. I see it as remembering you of what's going on.
How many Americans have you killed today, for example. When you play a game do you actually keep track of many people you've killed? I don't. That line, for me, is meant to create a dissonance, making you consider the amount of killing you've done in the game.
>>339729617
Unless the command is illegal, disregarding any command from a higher officer is actually a crime, where max punishment is death.
I'd say they try their best to curb individual decision making.
>>339731545
>and you can be straight up sentenced to death during wartime.
Only if you're a retard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging
>>339731798
Shit, nigger, you drunk or something? Could I get that same in actual, comprehensible English?
>>339732198
It's interesting how it was released at the height of call of duty's popularity and marketed itself to be very similar yet sold like shit. It's almost as if the developers misidentified what it was about call of duty games that made them popular, and then critiqued it for the things they misidentified.
>>339732194
How is it shit? It's simple, yes, but it's also polished, completely functional, and fun. It doesn't do anything wacky or new, but there are many worse 3ps games out there.
>>339731917
http://imgur.com/a/dHVyk
This one is what got on my tits the most. The game is either trying to make you feel bad for doing all those things you did as Walker because "I just thought it was what I was supposed to do" and then also wants to pull the "it's just a video game lol why do you care". People wouldn't have liked Heart of Darkness very much if the margins happened to have "it's just a book and this story is fake" scrawled in them after 2/3rds of the book is through.
>>339732221
what is political about bioshock or spec ops? Spec ops doesnt even discuss ideaology like bioshock or any politics, politicians, or policies.
How thin skinned are you people lmao
>>339732467
>but there are many worse 3ps games out there.
I don't think "there are worse things than shit" is really a compliment for the game. It was dull, basic, boring, just like the vast majority of 3ps out there.
>>339732462
>sold like shit
outside battlefield whose only similarity is the singleplayer nobody care about, no cod clones sold well. It's 2k's attempt at banking on cod, the dev has only made space sims before.
Funny thing is pic related managed to do what Spec Ops tried in a hilariously less pretentious way.
>>339732194
Spec Ops is a game made good by the sum of its parts, why do you think your opinion matters about the game as a whole having played 10 minutes tops?
>I would have enjoyed the game if the gameplay was better
you didn't even play the game, dude
Nobody likes Legacy of Kain or Morrowind for their gameplay either. If I took a vertical slice of 10 minutes of their gameplay, I'd probably call them shit games too
>>339732661
Black Ops also did the mindfuck twist in a way that actually makes sense
>>339731341
Most people played it due to hardcore fans talking about how it was the deepest game EVAR and it will destroy your soul or some shit. Coloured a lot of peoples expectations.
>>339731798
>Oponions
>Buzzswards
>Strawmonging
>Namecrawdading
That about ticks all the boxes. Here's your (You).
>>339728653
Every thread someone else who misses the whole point
Sometimes I wonder if anyone here played the game or just saw pictures of the loading screens
>>339732708
Because the game was so shit I dropped it. It's gameplay was so fucking subpar, even for a 3PS, I did not want to even finish the demo.
>Nobody likes Legacy of Kain or Morrowind for their gameplay either. If I took a vertical slice of 10 minutes of their gameplay, I'd probably call them shit games too
Yeah, they're RPGs, not 3PS, you fucking retard. They have other things going for them besides the gameplay, which atleast in Morrowind's case is vastly superior to Spec Ops'.
>>339732303
The problem is that they pull that with you, and it's very much made to make you think that maybe what you're doing is wrong, but they don't present another option to the killing. The entire game railroads you into shooting everyone up whether the player agrees with it or not and then saying "wow you sure seem like a shitty person huh" while still playing around with the idea that it's just a game and that it doesn't matter.
They tried to take the concept of the standard war shooter and people busting through games killing mindlessly and then mix that with Heart of Darkness and some bizarre kind of moral lesson, but they fucked it up. Books don't chastise you for reading them to the end because the reader doesn't "control" the actions of the book, but they tried to pull that with Spec Ops but forgot the part where you have to give the player more than 1 path if you want to chastise them for making the decisions they did.
>>339732942
>woah like, you just like, missed the point maannnn
Enlighten us, anon.
>>339732595
I came up with reasons why it wasn't shit though. It worked well and it was a solid basis for a neat and surprisingly engaging war story. It was like the Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, of 3ps games. Low budget but surprisingly well made.
>>339732409
>I'd say they try their best to curb individual decision making
That's because 99.9% times you're doing something you're acting as a part of a unit. Every individual in the unit has their own job, but each and every one of them relies on others to do theirs.
It may seem offensive to your special snowflake sensibilities, but one guy making his own decisions apart from the group most times does a hell of a lot more damage than good.
>>339733056
You have low fucking standards.
>>339733151
I'll direct you to this, then
>>339732470
>>339732989
>>339730461
yeah but it won't last long and you'll just get stepped on by a Russian boy from a farm in the far east who was thinking about his babushkas kompot.
>>339732950
>They have other things going for them besides the gameplay
But this my whole point about Spec Ops
The stage design, music and character piece storyline were extremely good
>>339729156
Heavy on the implications there, anon. You wouldn't by chance be attempting an appeal to authority on an anonymous image board, would you? That's almost nonsensical.
>>339728653
but anon, you could have just stop playing.
>>339733027
The point of the game isn't "you should feel shit for doing this" it's about how you or the character react to being railroaded into having to make shitty decisions then being blamed for it.
For fucks sake the entire ending makes this crystal clear yet retards always miss it, Konrad who's been blaming you the entire fucking game throuh the radio and his fourth wall fuckery gives you the choice to say "no fuck you it's not my fault I didn't do shit" and shoot him.
The epilogue makes this even MORE clear because then when soldiers turn up, now that Konrad is gone and the metaphorical designer/writer is no longer railroading your shit, you actually have a choice to hand over your weapon, shoot them and win, or die trying.
It's so fucking blindingly obvious yet there's always threads with retards going "wooow why is the gaming blaming me for something I didn't do"? It's hilariously ironic because this game gets often valid shit for not being subtle at times, yet retards always gloss over the fucking ending.
>>339733151
So it is CoD:Rouge, controls like you stuck the controller in pudding and fired all of the animators and modelers edition
I see
>>339732989
But they do present options other than killing. Like when you're "forced" to choose which hung person to shoot, or when you have to disperse the crowd, you don't have to shoot at a person or shoot at the crowd, and the game reacts accordingly.
>>339733395
That would expect people to have actually played the game and not regurgitate the Zero Punctuation criticisms
>>339733379
No. I'm implying you should have basic knowledge of things to have a proper discussion on them.
>>339733395
Wait so the point is that something something choices? Game played like shit man. Guess the point isn't to enjoy yourself and feel like you got your money's worth.
>>339733113
Fucking mouthbreather, did you even read the previous comments?
The whole point of an army is to act as one entity with multiple branches and arms, so of course it's best they all follow orders and fewer people make commands. I was calling you or whoever else made the inane comment out about "military being trained to think for themselves".
Jesus, I didn't realize summer was already here.
You did not go into this game hoping to find the peaceful solution, so why does it matter now
>>339733565
Epic retort. Did you even read any of that? The whole point is at the end you can go "nah fuck this it's your fault I don't have to feel bad about it".
>>339732989
How does the game "chastise you", though, besides a few weird 4th wall breaking moments? Walker is going nuts, there's a whole fuck ton of weird shit in this game. I maintain that the game is not preaching to YOU the player, but rather presenting a vision of the downfall of a soldier for you to watch. The 4th wall stuff is just for fun/ to drag you further into that tone of insanity. Besides, if the game says YOU, who's to say it means YOU the player, and not YOU as Walker? I guess I need to replay this shit.
>>339733371
Brought low by the piss-poor gameplay. If the gameplay can't compare, then I might as well just watch a movie, or better yet, just watch a walkthrough.
>>339733395
This. The game is stupid because it expects you to justify your actions.
It's war, I ain't gotta justify shit.
OH FUCK LET ME JUST BUY THIS SHOOTER AND ILL WALK AWAY FROM THE FIREFIGHTS
YEP THIS IS DEFINITELY WHAT I BOUGHT A GENERIC TPS FOR
>>339733287
Probably not. Airstrike or rocket artillery would be far, far, far more likely.
>>339733503
Those are terribly minor things that don't change the overall story of the game.
>>339733395
But the only person who gets railroaded is the player. Walker makes his shitty decisions at the start and the story unfolds around that. If you just want it to be a video game, then don't pop up the bullshit about 4th wall fuckery and just make it a story about Walker's actions going horriby wrong and it would be fine. Trying to insert the bit about the player doing this just mindlessly or "for fun" comes off as a cheap shot and raises the question of if the devs knew what they were doing at all.
Plus, in the end even if you don't shoot the soldiers, you still very much have PTSD and you still dicked over Dubai as hard as possible, so it's not really changing anything.
>>339733647
The gameplay was fine though, it's not winning any awards but it's not a bad play if you get it for cheap
>>339733395
This. While the game doesn't have an option to say Walker goes home, gets court marshaled, the end; they do give you an option after you find out the truth.
I see it as Walker forcing the player to follow his command, and after the truth is revealed, Walker is finally aware of what happened and the player is back in control of Walker.
>>339733708
>TPS
It's called a 3PS you mongoloid.
>>339733636
>Epic retort. Did you even read any of that?
No not really, I forget this game's fans are aspiring authors and not people who actually play videogames because the gameplay being literal bargain bin tier might actually matter to you people otherwise.
>>339733813
The game also says you're still a good person and it's not blaming you in the same loading screens
A bit pretentious but it's not blaming you for shit
>>339733636
how is surrendering yourself to be executed before a military court "not feeling bad about it"
explain
>>339733647
If anyone said the same thing about Morrowind though you'd throw a shitfit, even though that game has combat far worse even for its time
Pnp RPGs had better gameplay than Morrowind
>>339733916
>3 person shooter
>Third person shooter
>>339733247
The loading screen quotes? Really? That's preaching to you? You could argue they aren't even addressing the player at all, they're just Walker's thoughts or some shit. Also that guy clearly hasn't read Heart of Darkness. The two stories have little in common beyond "looking for a guy in a dangerous place" as a premise.
>>339733113
Go back to masturbating to Act of Valor.
>>339733978
>surrendering yourself to be executed before a military court "not feeling bad about it"
up to intepretation but the cia doesnt want word of this to get out anyway so he should be fine.
>>339733951
>>339734041
The one guy saying the screens addressing the player might actually be addressing Walker, and I'm fine with that idea for all of them minus the two where it says that "everything's fake, right?" and "killing for entertainment is harmless" because those are the ones that really lean on the 4th wall enough to make me think they could all be geared towards the player. Saying that you're not a bad person is pretty obviously tongue in cheek.
>>339734031
>3 people, including yourself, in your company the whole fucking game
>3 person shooter
>>339733496
>the controller
all console shooters already control like you described
>>339734217
It doesn't turn into a 1 person or 2 person shooter when they die tho
>>339734030
morrowind gameplay can be broken to hilarious effects, like a gta game. unlike a snoozfest linear tps.
>>339734145
>cia doesnt want word of this to get out anyway so he should be fine
Do you know who Jimmy Hoffa is?
All is not fine
You are accepting blame by giving up the gun
How do you misconstrue this so much?
>>339734030
I wouldn't. I have different expectations from different kinds of games.
>>339733503
What about the white phosphorus part?
They could have simply made a hard as fuck stealth section rather than just burning everyone, that way I'd actually feel bad if I chose to wimp out on sneaking and use the phosphorous on the soldiers but ending up killing civilians.
>people literally got offended playing a game
WW3 cant come soon enough
>>339734232
No, they have magent in the dudes so the bullets/gun is pulled towards them to make them playable with sticks, or have lock on or somthing
>>339733527
Basic knowledge that, according to you, can only be obtained by making deals with old Uncle Sam? Keep your jarhead opinions to yourself and go back to touching your dick to Seal Team 6 footage. American Soldiers are ingrained to obey orders first and question later. This is common knowledge.
The only moment I really gave a shit about was Glasgow Mega Snake playing in the aquarium, and that's just because I used to listen to Mogwai when I was younger.
>>339734270
>game changes genre halfway through
Didn't know this game was so revolutionary
>>339734307
>people got offended that a game had a bad story and got praised for it
I'm all for a game telling me I'm a bad person and calling me shit, but it needs to actually work for that rather than just toss it in lazily.
>>339734297
They removed the ability to sneak past because it fucked with the tone of the rest of the game
>>339734307
Mainstream critics dont hail mein kampf as a literary masterpiece.
>>339734284
>all the things that mattered in Morrowind suddenly dont for Spec Ops because it's not the RIGHT genre
Shit bro just when I thought your 5-minute-vertical-slice opinion couldn't have been any less relevant to the game
>>339734297
U culd haf stoped playin
y dint u stop?
U monstr
>>339734482
>And got praised for it
I still feel like all the butthurt about this game on /v/ comes from how games media jizzed themselves over it for a couple months, and less to do with the actual game
>>339729343
>>339730287
>blew up a hamlet filled with civilians despite their own reconnaissance confirming no hostiles
This sounds pretty god damn illegal actually. Soldiers are not supposed to, even on orders, actually target civilians like that. Pretty sure that's a war-crime.
>>339728939
The moral is pretty much a 1 Dimensional side to Undertales 2 Dimensional side.
Do you know how funny it is to Praise Undertale's moral upcomings when compared to games like this? Very fun, especially when it's true.
>>339733918
>No not really
Then you have no right to argue on this shit if you can't even be bothered to read a response on why you're chatting shit.
>>339734568
One is a third person shooter, the other is an RPG. They're two completely different genres.
>>339727825
>Why are those two guys following a literal crazy guy
Oh boy, it's almost as if soldiers would doing anything they're ordered to do. What a crazy world we live in!!
>>339733978
>surrendering to be executed
What
>>339734657
>all the things that mattered in Morrowind suddenly dont for Spec Ops because it's not the RIGHT genre
>>339734283
the game doesnt operate on real life logic so who knows? they dont imply court martial anywhere either. It's a typical "walking from it all" bitter ending.
>>339734580
>I got triggered by a loading screen, time to make up bullshit
The game never tells you to stop playing it, ever.
>>339734487
The white phosphorus part is the only part I really like in the game because it stands up on subsequent playthroughs as you doing something that you thought was right but ended up fucking over a lot of people. It was a choice that I could totally have seen myself making at that time too, but diving into a city as fucked as Dubai is against all orders and then deciding to destroy all the water left in the city just to get at the 33rd are so hilariously dumb that they break any immersion or hint at good story telling, no matter how crazed Walker might be towards the end.
>>339734752
Are you just retarded or something?
I'm willing to bet half the people in this thread saying "woooow it wants me to stop playing" have never even played the game.
I mean how retarded do you have to be to literally miss the most obvious ending sequence where it spells everything out for you.
>>339734778
Did you not read any of the interviews with the devs at all?
>>339734482
Grow a backbone dude, did the game hurt your feelings? Not to mention your blind adherence to a misinterpretation of the plot that has been thoroughly addressed in this thread. The extent of the game "preaching" that YOU the PLAYER are a bad person are a few vague tongue-in-cheek messages that you see during load times. That's it. The rest of the game is just sad shit happening to a squad of fucked up crazy soldiers. It's pretty well written, too. The gameplay itself doesn't blow my mind but it was plenty to keep me engaged for the length of the plot. I'm gonna go replay this thanks to this thread.
>>339734806
>deciding to destroy all the water left in the city
they wanted to rob the water, not destroying it. the cia agent is the only one wanted to do it, but only revealed that after the fact. It placed at the climax of the story when both sides can only think of violence and violence they did.
>>339734738
Where do you think he is gonna go, sunshine and candy land?
There is one place for him to go, and that is the stocks
>>339734772
>walk it off
It doesn't fucking work like that, and it's huge plot holes like that that make this story driven game shit
its a huge load of wank with no direction or overall goal, they just said "hey that seems arthouse" and put it in the game
Pretty much Andy Warhol the game
>>339734840
Morrowind does not get a free pass on it's shitty gameplay because 'its an RPG'
The reason it gets a free pass is because it has one the best world-building out of any game to date
The reason people give Spec Ops gets leniency on its average-at-best gameplay is because, similarly, of its solid writing, music and scene design
>>339735036
>It's pretty well written, too
>>339735252
Come now, I said "pretty well," not a masterpiece, and this is in the world of video games, where people praise Metal Gear Solid.
>>339735042
It would've made a lot more sense if it happened after the mob gets Lugo because then Walker wouldn't really care about the civilian cost. And stealing truck fulls of the only water left in the city while surrounded by heavily armed people who hate your guts probably isn't going to end up with you keeping the water as some kind of bargaining chip.
>>339735036
Muddling up a good story with lazy attempts to force some kind of moral message where it wasn't needed or play off the medium of video games as a whole in a very lazy way is stupid and it doesn't deserve the praise it got. What could've been a find standalone piece ends up getting tainted by the half-assed 4th wall shit at the end. Take that out or refine it into a whole idea and I'd be fine with the game.
>>339735071
If they even find out about what happened. One of the guys even says "what was it like? how did you survive?" they clearly have no idea what went on.
>>339735071
>story must adhere to real life 1:1
it doesnt have to and it isnt a plot hole. A plot hole is something that HAPPENED during the plot like the two squadmates not questioning your orders. The ending is the end, not a single thing "might" happened after that unless there is a sequel. Your headcannon dont affect a thing. And because the game let you choose your ending, it also depends on how you feel about the previous event. You might shoot these guys because you think the game was such preachy horseshit, you might shoot these guys because you think that's the only thing walker would do now, you might drop your gun because you are touched by the message, you might drop your gun because you clearly see they are innocent and calm unlike the enemies in the game, you might drop your gun because lol whatever... But a court martial definitely wasnt implied by anyone in the game. The end is the end.
>>339734806
>deciding to destroy all the water
But they didn't, Walker yells "Briggs you son of a bitch" when he crashed the trucks, Briggs hatched the plan himself.
>>339735071
How is it a plot hole to not display what happens after the ending?
Who here tried their hardest and repeated the white phosphorus scene multiple times because they thought they had a choice not to do it that way? I did.
I still liked the game though
>>339735821
am i the only one who had walker kill himself? i thought that was the only thing walker would do in this situation.
>>339736434
That was a fun thread
>>339727636
It's a game for the new wave of pseudo-intellectual gamers who are craving validation in their hobby as art instead of just enjoying it.
Ironically because they can literally only appreciate attempts at intellectual value in gaming if it's at the absolute most hamfistedly clumsy surface level they try to hold this game up as a piece of high gaming as art to outsiders which only makes gamers and gaming even stupider and base for these morons championing such a blunt piece of narrative and non-example of gaming as art because they're so thick they can only recognize games as having artistic value if their "artistic value" is so blatant and overtly shoehorned that it completely negates the mere attempt at elevation beyond basic entertainment.
>>339728973
It's not about soldiers you dumb fuck. It's about "gamers".
>>339728653
The game gives you no option not to commit the atrocities. A lot of players complain that you have no choice in the matter.
You have no choice in doing heroic things in games like CoD, though, do you?
>>339738634
Actually most things in CoD are positional checkpoint based which means you can do pacifist runs if you so choose.
I just loved the subtle shit laced around the game you don't notice on a first playthrough
The billboards with konrad's face, the posters on the sides of building that change from konrad's face to that girl, and the burning statues after letting riggs burn to death.
I recently played it for the 3rd time and just noticed the tree losing it's leaves after you walk by.
It just feels really good to play the first mission and then the 2nd to last mission, and see how different the tone of the game is.
The executions, how walker yells orders, and the music.
https://youtu.be/0lcMzNKMiHo?t=34m52s
If anything, the game makes a great atmosphere with it's good voice acting and actually at times relying on your squad.
Don't even feel like I'm playing the guy who voices Nathan Drake.
>>339729568
t. Yank playing pretend.
It's universally agreed that the American military is Russian tier incompetent in everything but its elite forces, and even those aren't shit compared to the Israelis/Brits.
You are talking about it. It did its job fine.
>>339741018
We still talk about how bad Superman 64 was too.
I guess we could say this game is about as good as Superman 64 then.
It's funny how all the criticisms seem to boil down to the tips in the loading screens.
If there was a happy ending, it would have totally ruined the game's message and made it yet another one of the games it was trying exactly NOT to be. Think about that.
FUCKING V memed me.into playing this awful terrible shooter. Fuck you
>play on hardest difficulty
>friendly AI literally stands out in the open, can't follow orders, won't kill enemies right next to it, and gets itself downed miles from cover
>game devolves into the player having to drag two virtual retards through Dubai
Brilliant.
>>339741374
Yup. Apparently the loading screens are really pretentious and totally force a 2deep4u message down your throat that ruins the entirety of the game.
>>339731132
Did they stop it? No.
Did anyone got any meaningful sentence? No.
>try again faggot
>>339729568
The US army has also had its ass kicked numerous times by guerilla fighters, specifically in unjust wars the populace didn't agree with.
>>339728653
>"You could have stopped playing the game"
Except the game never says that, never blames you, and you are just a little bitch who can't handle the awesomeness of having killed everything for no reason.
>>339730461
You'd get annihilated by Russia because your country is in a shitty geographic location.
I'm glad all the US has to deal with is beaners, and a land invasion of the country isn't feasible.
>>339742095
That shit was what happened to me and what ultimately made me notice how disconnected the story was from the rest of the game.
>yet another shootout inside a building
>dive behind a flowerbed
>there's one of my teammates already behind it
>... and an enemy soldier
>they're just sitting here, popping up and taking shots in random direction every few seconds
>I park myself between them
>neither notices
If you want to make a "message" about video games, fucking work on your game's "game" part first.
>>339727905
Pretty sure "I was following orderS" is not an excuse and you are absolutely expected to disobey illegal orders in the US military.
>>339743739
That's because petty things like war laws and international attention hold the established military's hands behind their back while the guerilla fighters can hide behind civilians and don't need to obey treaties.
If it was actually a matter of America unleashing everything on a guerilla force it didn't want to exist anymore they really wouldn't.
>>339744070
Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Are you saying the devs should have done, ugh, "research" first, before writing their story? What the fuck kind of retarded idea is this?
>>339743989
That shit also makes you ask why the game doesn't have a "Call out to opposing American soldiers to ask the situation" button so you could do that repeatedly instead of just having to constantly shoot back at those who shoot at you.
But instead the game is just basically one long escort mission trying to get your shitty friendly AI's from point A to point B.
>>339744080
>That's because petty things like war laws and international attention hold the established military's hands behind their back while the guerilla fighters can hide behind civilians and don't need to obey treaties.
Actually in a lot of cases it has more to do with the people fighting the war having no real reason to. They aren't fighting for homeland or defense, it's not like WW2 where everyone is on board. Every war the US gets involved in since WW2 has been a war many soldiers weren't keen on fighting in the first place, and in the case of vietnam, you had soldiers who were literally forced against their will to fight, and the vietnam war had a lot of "friendly fire" casualties due to it.
>>339744218
I recall seeing a study showing that around 60% of American forces would obey an order from a superior to fire into a crowd of unarmed civvies.
>>339744268
Short answer: because it's a generic third person military shooter down to the bone.
Long answer: because it's a generic third person military shooter down to the bone, but it wouldn't sell on that alone with how unfinished it was once the deadline rolled around, so the lead writer refashioned the story into what you see today.
There's an interview on Cracked (yeah, I know) where he basically says that the entire story was shat out at the last minute, making even Walker's VA stop recording and question whether they were going to fix it because the lines didn't make sense to him.
>>339728528
using a tv show as an argument
>kill yourself
>>339744514
>clickbait.com
>>339743954
>land invasion isn't feasible
The spics have already taken the south west and are encroaching farther inland though
>>339744649
Yeah. I know. I'm not telling you to look it up. Maybe look for an archive link. It had to have been posted here at some point.
>>339734778
No, but the devs did when they got called out on it
"You could have just stopped playing" was damage control on their part when they realzied they had written themselves into a corner
>>339729568
>britbong sucking the yankee chode
wow colour me surprised.
>>339744649
>that picture
>>339744649
>The exit was never closed
>It got closed the second the game started
>>339745063
1. No, they didn't.
2. Death of the Author.
>>339745212
You could have turned off the console.
>>339734432
lol you just got btfo
>Buy a book
>Get to the last page
>Book calls me a horrible person for enabling the events that transpired
>"You should've stopped reading bro!"
/v/ only get mad because this game imply you play a lot of videogames
>>339747627
>/v/
>playing videogames
Wrong nigga. /v/ just shitpost about them.
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
"Can you even remember why you came here?"
"White phosphorus is a common allotrope used in your slaughter at the Gate. It can set fire to soldiers and the innocent civilians they are trying to help."
"The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?"
"This is all your fault
>>339730262
Mistakes were made, the call was made by someone who thought the village was hostile and not the people who had active eyes on the village.
Bad information gets passed along all the time in the military, it's just something you deal with.
Was it terrible? Yes, was it illegal? Technically no, at least with the information we are given in both the book and the show.
It would be illegal if the person who made the call knew the village was non-hostile and still decided to hit it with a JDAM.
