why are you so dead, MMO genre?
Combination of WoW and 2007.
>>339286167
That's a good thing
Nothing made me feel better than my shit eating grin when mmos like tor and elder scrolls online were made f2p
MMOS are just time sinks and money gougers for pseudo gamblers
Wasn't Tree of Savior going to be the "Savior" of the MMO genre.
What happened? is it good?
>>339287487
Not really, it was just supposed to be a charming MMO and a successor of Ragnarok, something it kind of failed at. The game's art and music are top notch but that's it.
>>339287626
/v/ was ranting and raving about it like a year ago.
No one cares.
>>339286167
All new games had to compete content-wise to WoW+expansions. If WoW dies then the genre has a chance.
The risk is too big.
A lot of "WoW-killers" were released and none of them were successful. Publishers aren't gonna take that risk when it hasn't been successful the last times.
Too heavy of a focus on dailies and weeklies and misinterpreting the desire for sandbox MMOs as giving the players nothing to do and being told that PvP is the content. BDO's a good example of this. You need a healthy balance between PvP and PvE in a MMORPGs. If you can only focus on one, choose PvE. They're RPGs after all, something developers seem to be forgetting.
>>339287792
That's because/v/ is retarded, no surprise there.
MMOs are mostly irrelevant anyways, whoever hyped up this game especially with >Nexon as a major red flag of concern, is a fool.
>So you're telling me i can charge 60 bucks for the base game and then 15 bucks for a monthly sub?
>>339286167
Because MMOs were started when somebody had a bright idea - "Hey, what if we could make, like, an RPG you can play with your friends? Like Morrowind and shit?". It was a very exciting idea, so they've made it. But as the years passed, people found out that sharing an RPD with thousands of random shitheads is really not that great of an experience.
>>339287792
It looks great on paper, then you get to play it. Not so great.
Art and music are nice though, especially if you liked RO. You can grab the f2p version for the entire OST since it's is in the game folders labelled and cataloged.
>>339288301
I recognize that TUN reference.
also from the mouth of a ToSplayer himself, datamining is one (out of the millions of reasons) why MMOs are dying and turn into shit really fast.
And where's the fucking social aspect of these games? Why are MMOs being treated as singleplayer games? ToS is a huge fucking retard when it comes to this as well, forcing people to pretty much play ALONE for 200 levels until quests run out.
200
FUCKING
LEVELS
OF
NONSTOP QUESTS
>>339288301
>you're telling me that by making it free to play and selling hats and p2w items I can make 1000 dollars from a single sucker- I mean customer in just a month?
I actually miss subscription based MMOs. There weren't players with golden halos around them and fastest mounts in the game and it also had a lot less bots and china farmers than F2P ones.
I'll take the easy route and just blame casualization.
I've been playing private servers of some old MMOs for the last few months and I've been enjoying it.
Okay, if you had to make a new MMO game what would it be?
Remember that if it's too close to WoW it probably won't be successful.
>>339288707
i don't have problems with subs either i just don't know why it always has to be 15 and not 10 or 5, besides:
>TERA had subs and they f2p to not die
>Linege 2 had subs and they went f2p to not die
>Wildstar had subs and they went f2p to not die
Being sub based doesn't mean shit if the game is shit
>>339289118
>If I had to make a new MMO
No, I'd rather make a moba. At least people would play that shit.
>>339288635
>datamining is one (out of the millions of reasons) why MMOs are dying and turn into shit really fast.
lolno
mmos are dying because shitty boring gameplay, grinding and lack of quality
Datamining has literally nothing to do with it, but nice attempt. The guy in that image looks like he was trying really hard too, what a shame.
>>339289118
OLD
MABINOGI
>>339289118
tibia or ultima online but with 3d graphics
>>339289118
FFXI HD or RO HD
Nothing will ever be as successful as WoW was, but I still believe the market is there.
>>339286167
Still waiting for a worthy RO successor.
Because low quality gamificiation of simple tasks is not rewarding. Grinding is an absurdly stupid thing to do in 2016 when you have so many great games to play.
The only MMO that is that has actively tried to keep up is WoW, where they're reducing the grinding and making things actually more meaningful with the world/quests; the world/lore (as silly as it can be) has actual soul. It hasn't been a smooth transition of course, but WoW has managed to retain it's title as the largest MMO while most have died. Legion will dictate if this is the confirmation of WoW's slow descent into obscurity or a revival.
The people who want Vanilla wow are true no life shitters that are stuck in nostalgia. There is no other excuse for enjoying low quality gameplay that was cutting edge 12 years ago..
>>339289465
why do people use these shitty web games as an example of what a good game should be?
gaiafags really are cancer huh
Why did Tree of Savior have to suck, /v/? It had so much potential. I thought I was finally going to have a comfy MMO to come home to every day again.
Are IMC the most incompetent gaming developers in history?
>>339289324
>Datamining has literally nothing to do with it
>literally nothing to do with it
>literally nothing
as in not figuratively nothing?
>mmos are dying because shitty boring gameplay, grinding and lack of quality
wow lad I bet you'd enjoy the living shit out of ToS because it has !!0!! GRINDING
in fact it's so fucking linear and quest based you could call it a fucking singleplayer RPG
![crimes-cometidos-por-jogos-lineage-2-albert[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7AcvQer.jpg "crimes-cometidos-por-jogos-lineage-2-albert[1].jpg")
>>339289245
>Lineage 2 is shit
You triple fucking nigger. Lineage got ruined by recent expansions influenced by WoW and its popularity, which is why they had to go free to play. (Not to mention the game itself being older than WoW).
There's official subscription based "classic" servers (think Nostalrius for WoW) and their population is huge.
>>339289715
>expecting a good mmo from korea
your mistake
>>339289714
First, what the fuck do you mean by shitty web game?
Second, I did not make any statement of how a "good game" should be, all I said is that I'm waiting for a specific game to be made.
Keep your autism in check anon.
>>339289807
>good mmo
>the west
name one that isn't WoW or some stone age 1999 bullshit
I dare you
>>339289592
>Grinding is an absurdly stupid thing to do in 2016 when you have so many great games to play.
Except that there has always been a bunch of great games except the very early days. People did not play MMO (grinders) because there wasn't anything else. What a stupid argument.
>>339289807
Western MMOs are ugly, sorry anon. I need anime girls.
>>339289592
The appeal to most is that the grinding with friends game is better than the single player story game, no matter how good the story is.
I'd love to have an MMO where I can play with friends and have a meaningful story experience, but that hasn't been achieved yet.
>>339289739
>as in not figuratively nothing?
as in not even remotely related in some retarded obscure way
>ToS
fuck korean game devs and fuck mmos
Nowadays they focus on gear treadmills, time sinks, and milking the maximum amount of money out of players.
As opposed to making the game fun first before finding a way to sneakily insert that.
>>339290026
why are you in an MMO thread if you don't like MMOs/like to talk about MMOs
did you get raped by an MMO developer
The genre became more refined and games like WoW were polished to the point where they weren't broken anymore. So instead of people creating their own fun with glitches everyone was forced to play the actual game, which was mediocre. This lead to tryhards in communities and elitism which rooted out casuals and created a divide.
The game became more about the actual game and not just a glorified chat room with game elements in it. Refining WoW and MMO's in general to the theme park design they have now is what killed them. It's why so many people want a pure vanilla experience, because it was broken.
>>339289765
Don't you put words in my mouth you quadruple nigger i didn't say it was always shit in fact i fucking it loved during chronicles but as they "updated" the game it just wasn't worth the sub anymore
>>339289807
>expecting a good mmo from the land of brown and orcs
fuck you, korean mmos have been the only ones to have some interesting ideas in them.
MMOs should only charge sub fees on the months they drop content patches.
>>339289910
>>good mmo
>>the west
>name one that isn't WoW or some stone age 1999 bullshit
>I dare you
I never left Japan out of it
but yeah, they don't exist cause mmos are shit
>>339289976
see above
Well GTAO is still alive and healthy.
>>339290150
>did you get raped by an MMO developeryes
ToS is actually really fun and cute! Don't believe the haters. Join today!oh wait :^)
>>339290150
>did you get raped by an MMO developer
hasn't everyone at one point?
>>339290240
Did he grind his dick in your hidden dungeon and get upset when he didn't get any loot from doing it until he hit his daily quota?
>>339286167
Seriously it's that overpriced monthlies gave way to F2P, and there is no middle ground.
Base game + $15/ mo continual fee? FFXI had the balls to make it so if you let your sub drop, you had to buy the base game again, at least around launch time. When I was a kid I had the time to invest but not the money. $15 EACH MONTH was ridiculous. Now I have the money but not the time (and lol major depression yay adulthood). Either way, you're paying 1/4 of the price of a new game to be committed to one single game. To be social, you have to have friends in real life who will make that commitment with you. Or you have to be available consistently to participate with your online group. If you're not being social, what is the point of MMO? At $15 a month, you have to keep playing for it to be worth it, and you only have so many free hours in a month. So it's extremely difficult to get involved in more than one MMO at a time. Not only that, to stretch the subs, MMOs have boring grinds and little purpose the player hasn't made himself.
And F2P games are mostly garbage cashgrabs with garbage player base. So again, why are they even MMO if there's no point in playing online?
Looks like >>339287420 and >>339287040 already summed this up.
It's become a fucking dumb and pointless genre. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of playing things like GW2, Wildstar, FFXIV, but it's just a pipedream. Maybe if I can retire when I'm still relatively young. Ain't no one got time for that.
>>339290209
People would complain in masses that they didn't want "that DLC", so why would they be locked out of their account. Yes, this would be treated as DLC.
>>339290362
Yeah, him and his big fat jew master would spitroast me on the daily
>>339289765
I guess you people will never understand why the game died in the first place.
Also Classic is a sinking boat, player count lowering each and every day.
>>339289765
>Implying lineage 2 didn't become shit
>been playing japanese ragnarok online for a good 7 years now, on and off
>shit still has a subscription but is so alive and so good I'm just going to keep on going with it
>literally disconnected from other MMOs
>decided to re-visit mabinogi after like 6 years
jesus christ
everyone is playing by themselves, what the actual fuck?
>>339289118
get rid of everything in the picture
>>339290890
Why do you have a jp ro subscription? Do you live there?
I play international mabi and while it's not as good as it used to be it's not that bad in that regard either man.
>>339290890
The gaming world is more hostile and competitive than it ever was. People would rather insult each other and be better than everyone else than have a good time together.
A lot of time of my Ragnarok Online experience was sitting around and chatting with strangers, or fucking around on varios maps, without much serious intent. Fun times.
>>339286167
it's a shit genre
-Tried BandS, hated the pvp focus and lack of range choices
-BDO dropped sandbox and killed it's own hype
-Don't know what it is about ToS but this game is just too boring and lack social interaction
Currently distracted with overwatch, but still looking for a comfy mmo. I'm half considering resubbing wow or 14, maybe give Tera a try. Is there anything on the horizon worth keeping an eye on? Any other mmo that's the new hotness that I missed?
What would make you sub to an MMO again?
What are you looking for?
>>339291316
No, it's not.
Not everyone is a dumb amerifat who needs to play games packed with action.
Some of us like slower, repetitive and social games with exploration and other shit.
>>339291510
oldschool.runescape.com
Most of the updates so far have been alright. Some not so good, but mostly ignoreable for now/
>>339291602
Mabinogi 2 with star ocean 5 graphics. I'd pay a lot for that shit.
Datamining, item databases and HD video streaming are what killed this genre.
You can't exactly immerse yourself in a virtual world when all the wonder and mystery is spoiled for you.
Thottbot and Allakhazam weren't in-depth enough to spoil the adventure of old MMO's.
>>339287487
devs wasted all of their time and money taking field trips for "research"
apparently none of them know anything about making a game because there's a shitload of unfixable mechanical problems
>>339291827
Not really. You're just avert to change like everyone.
>>339291925
Not an argument.
>>339291827
>trying this post again
sorry dude, you're the only one autistic enough to not play games the way you want to play them
>watching streamers
>>339290374
>"I" (me) don't have time for MMOs now
>because of this it became a fucking dumb and pointless genre
MMOs did go to shit but you're not touching any of the main reasons as to why it happened.
>>339292045
Not an argument.
>>339291121
Yeah, made a piece of software when I was a kiddo and was instantly noticed by a Nip company, as soon as I hit 18 I was hired and got a free ride to Niphon, now I get to jump from company to company.
>I play international mabi and while it's not as good as it used to be it's not that bad in that regard either man.
From what it seems, it's just old players sitting around because there's nothing to do, I tried partying with people to finish G1 but they just flat out murdered everything in the dungeons so fast, so I searched for newer players.
Nothing, 0, anyone who was new just switched channels when I asked them if they wanted to party.
>>339292143
Stefan, please.
I'd play 14 but the servers are probably the furthest away geographically they could possibly be from Australia. It's fucking awful.
>>339292046
This is bullshit. I'm single and retired at the age of 30, I have all the time in the world and new mmos are still shit.
>>339292301
Isn't every single non-JP server in fucking Canada?
>>339292478
Yes which is terrible if you're from aus. Basically the only decent connection is on the west coast.
>>339292405
how the fuck did you retire so early?
>>339292725
Shitty drawings of video game characters on patreon
>>339290374
>Ain't no one got time for that.
100% bullshit
The amount of old people I ran into while playing fun garbage like Trickster Online, Ragnarok, MU and every single fucking MMO that had any aspect of partying or social aspects, every third person I'd meet was a 30 year old man or even older.
The real reason why people don't socialize as much or play MMOs are because they've been replaced with chat clients such as Facebook and Twitter and whatever garbage people use these days.
>>339292725
Stem field, never got married put everything into investments, helped a bro start a business. I still work but just barely.
>>339291091
>only one minimap
Needs at least another map to the left of the quest list, and a bunch of randomly placed toolbars all over the place.
Wonder how much of a flop Legion is going to be.
>>339291827
I must say one of the greatest wonders I've had is exploring the world of Tibia with friends. Since dying had such big consequences I was fucking scared of going alone.
If I played a game like Tibia today I would search for proper equipment, levelling places, maps, etc.
>>339293438
Don't forget dps and heal charts, wat are you a newb!
It's not dead, it's just not for everyone.
If you're playing f2p, then yes your MMO is dead because it's filled with people who really don't give a shit about playing the MMO genre. 70% of those guys are just trying it out for maybe a month before they get burned out on the grind.
If you're trying to find a good MMO with a good playerbase, expect to put up with a monthly fee. You'll find more motivated players.
VR will save MMOs.
>>339293810
.hack// MMO when
>>339293810
Only when you're able to fully be inside an mmo and have SEXXXXXX!!!!!
>>339291602
I want City of Heroes back, before it got ruined by shit like the nerfed PVP and Architect.
>>339293810
No, it won't. VR right now is just a really fancy, really expensive HUD for playing games. It's barely virtual reality.
When VR becomes full body immersive, that's when the MMO genre will really take off to a scary level.
>Dead
>>339286167
WoW killed itself and took the whole genre with it
>>339293963
Vr headsets exist. Dick controllers exist. Come on fucking internet you have one job.
>>339294051
>grind for 2 hours
>then wait for a week for your thing to craft
farmeville combined with mass effect: the game
>>339286167
Well Tree of Savior was a pump and dump scam. Korean Company shitting out something with nostalgia credit that they had no intention of ever supporting. Completely dead almost a month out from F2P with no updates in sight.
Probably a poor example.
>>339286167
>let's make a game that requires playing 23 hours a day to enjoy
>>339286167
because they're all single player games with other people flying around now, the culture has changed and now nobody is playing them to just chill. no sitting around campfires chatting with people you've never met anymore it's all chasing the gear grind.
>>339287487
It's not bad, but IMC are literally hitler.
Picture a F2P MMO that
-Cash shop doesn't work
-Classes are imbalanced
-Entire game is updated with random updates from the KR version
-When the game isn't in parity with the KR version in the first place
-Constant crashes
-Insufficient server power
-Massive lagging
-Multiple mechanics bugged and broken
And you got ToS.
People over-estimated korean money-grabbing companies. They care not for you if you don't play exclusively in a cyber cafe in Seoul
The games that could have been good, were good, or were good and went down a road of suffering -- all of which gone and spared from this mortal coil. Truly they weren't games we deserved but they were the games we needed.
Especially City of Heroes. RIP CoX. ;_;
>>339293810
how will it save a genre that is mostly played by people who dont have money for games nor for expensive hardware
VR is a meme that needs to die until it gets affordable
>>339287487
It's so fucking boring
>shit soundtrack
>shit combat
>shit art
>shit areas
>>339294390
They don't care for the korean playerbase either, shit's fucking dead in korea.
also holy shit what a badly optimized game, look at this average ping spike
>50ms ~ 900ms
>>339294227
game is pretty chill if you don't focus on the grind and just have fun to kill time
>>339288635
You're 100% correct. Being shuffled back and forth between quests just kills community. I was complaining about this before launch and no one believed me .
There is no reason to stick as a community when everyone could be off doing quests on the far end of the map miles away from one another. I am lucky if I even find a single person in my travels with how distant and spread out all the quests are.
Considering I built my character entirely with having fun with friends in mind, I have no reason to keep playing.
>>339294426
I remember redownloading CoH for the first time after it went F2P, because they were shutting it down.
Got a message from my uncle about it, 'cause I didnt even know it was happening. Hadn't cared about the game in years.
"Come play City of Heroes with me before we never have the chance again."
Hit me like a ton of bricks. I had so much fun in highschool running TFs and doing Hamidon raids.
I miss that game a lot now, and I wish I'd played what was left of it more before it went.
>>339294724
but that's all there is to warframe
>go in area
>its the grineer
>its the same 3 enemies but with higher levels which increase their damage, armor and health by a bazillion
>bazinga
>heres your wait-or-pay-wall for the next maps
>>339294426
I don't remember Tabula Rasa well, but I remember that it was the only MMORPG I can remember that had mobs which were smart enough to plan counterattacks to players grinding.
Legit counterattacks that required people stop what they were doing, seek shelter, and try to fight them from the safety of bunkers, trees, and any other makeshift cover they could find.
That moment was beautiful.
MMOs are obsolete.
The current MMO model wont change because it allows developers to make half assed games on a low budget that generate a lot of revenue.
You can argue about things all you want, but at the end of the day developers are just taking what is a minimal risk for maximum reward.
>>339295121
No no, rephrase that
>KOREAN MMOs are obsolete
The scourge of Korean companies releasing spare assets: The game and then abandoning it is coming to an end.
For me it's got to be that everyone tries to break the system.
There is no Mmo where people aren't completely breaking the system to either be unstoppable or fuck over other players.
>>339287487
game is not great
the biggest issue the way IMC just codes. everything is broken
some weeks ago, any member of a guild was able to type in /destroyguild and the whole guild was instantly disbanded
just stuff like this keeps happening
>>339295326
It is changing, because the 'generate a lot of revenue' portion of it is slowly starting to end.
>>339288635
datamining and mix maxing are the killers of MMOs
nothing is secret anymore
no more mysteries
no more adventures
everything has been datamined back and forth, you know all the strats, there is nothing to explore
>he doesn't know and play the game that is OSRS
loving every laff family
>>339295458
The thing is though, even the failed MMOs like TORtanic, ESO and Wildstar are making so much fucking money they'll be alive for another half a decade or longer.
>>339295578
>min/maxing
Hey why don't you have the pure min maxed dps build.
Because I'm rolled as a support.
Your playing your class wrong.
Then why does my class have all these support abilities.
Whatever, just respec.
>>339295653
Runescape was the pleb MMO back then and it still is now. Only people too fucking stupid to use google and type "mmorpgs" play it.
>>339295578
>go out of your way to find how to do something through google
>find that information and be upset about it
get people to play together
wow u did it savior of em em ohs
>play LOTRO for several years
>only use wiki when completely stuck on some things
>mfw still finding hidden deeds
>mfw still finding shit I haven't done yet
>mfw still finding places I've never been to
I wish MMOs were more on worldbuilding too. If the world is not interesting no matter how good the combat is I won't get immersed in it.
>>339296090
Used to have to ask for help in game. This led to socialization, which led to learning guilds which weren't just about leveling but learning how to play. This built the community, the games could grow overtime instead of shrinking since people looked back at those early levels fondly rather than just speed level following 15 level guides. Of course there weren't quest handholding everything for you.
>>339295653
but anon, why would i want to play the same game i was godlike at when i was in middle school when i'm a 24 year old failure of an adult?
>>339296378
>ask something on global chat
>USE GOOGLE YOU NOOB LMAO
>>339287487
It would be pretty good if it wasn't so unplayably laggy and if IMC didn't cut off their nose to spite their face in regards to the trading restrictions to combat RMT. For fuck's sake, you can't even trade between your own characters.
WoW convinced people that everything needs to be easy and accessible through the UI
It's fucking awful
>>339296298
LOTRO would be great if most of the areas wernt completely dead and the devs didnt make the <50 easy as hell when the game went f2p.
Monster Play has also been a laggy mess since release, but the devs only recently accepted that it was the fault of their servers and not the players machines.
>ITT poor babies crying about paying for a product
You
You are all the reason the mmo genre died.
>>339296298
World building is very easily when your game is based off the deepest world builder's works.
>>339287994
The game was hyped up before >Nexon, hype died when the news hit
>>339296090
>Don't do this
>Try to join a guild
>No one wants you
Every MMO that gets released nowadays is dogshit, or it gets turned to into dogshit via Trion/Nexon greed.
>>339296843
True, but you can make a world that doesn't feel like Generic Forest #25364, Generic Mountains #253253 etc. It's not easy, I'm not saying it is, buy a lot depends on it. If barely any effort it put into it, then people won't play it -that- much.
LOTRO only still lives because of autistic fanboys of Tolkien. And that's not bad. Community is solid, and you can explore a lot of the Middle Earth. It offers the most actually in terms of that when it comes to any LOTR related game.
>>339296498
Early oghts. Having a computer that can run multiple internet programs at once while staying connected to the server over shit landlines. Do you even know the pain that was AoL?
Solution for data-mining and min-maxing:
1) Don't name items and monsters. Only players and guilds have names. If names emerge, then they emerge from the community.
2) Create mechanics that aren't about cookie cutter builds and obfuscate them and stats. Player skill should be more important than stats. That way most characters will be different as it's unclear of what the perfect build is, there will be constant discussions.
3) Hide damage. Replace numbers flying through the picture with visual wear effects on monsters and enemies. You only see your health and the health of party members, but not in absolute numbers, only as bar/%.
4) Reduce UI to the absolutely necessary. Reduce text to a minimum.
Would something like this work? I don't mean if it would be popular with the casual crowd, but if it would work for a good game.
>>339297751
no
you just hide shit like crafting, loot tables and whatnot behind the deepest of server sided shit
ToS was really easily datamined but they suddenly decided to stop being super retarded and pulled the drops and recipes out of the hands of greedy shitters so now you actually have to manually kill and map their loots whoaah!!
We need to have MMORPG threads again, /v/
The most fun I had was joining a crappy little MMO with you dolts and doing stupid shit until either all of us were banned or we got bored.
Anyone remember our stint into Rose online?
>>339297751
>don't name monsters
>a skeleton mob appears
>GEE HOW WILL WE NAME HIM
>>339298237
>not enjoying the idea of your community naming a skeleton boss who uses a bone as a weapon big boner
>>339298456
Considering 90% of it would be still generic as fuck it would barely change anything
>>339298092
Rose online? Never heard of that stunt, link or green text please.
>>339297751
Aside from visual wear, what you described is a Dark Souls MMO.
>>339298092
>doing stupid shit
24/7 ERP?
>>339298237
Are you stupid? I meant that the game doesn't dictate names. So in order to get information about a newly encountered mob you either need to have seen it on a wiki beforehand, cycle through everything (by related tags) or, which would be the easiest option, ask people, which would increase player interaction.
The point was not to not tell people that a skeleton is a skeleton.
>>339298456
>GOTTA KILL BIG BONER FIRST BRO
>ANYONE SEEN BIG BONER UP?
>LFG TO KILL BIG BONER PST
>>339298643
I have never played a Souls game, so I don't know about that.
>>339298639
>>339298792
Actually, looking back on it, I'm not sure if it was Rose online. I think it was something else with a very similar aesthetic.
>Crappy little MMO from a few years ago
>So basic that it was just a bunch of unfinished towns expanded/blown up into freakish proportions to look like entire areas
>/v/ comes in
>Servers crash three times with the sudden influx
>At some point a GM gets involved
>Notices how many names are just re-iterations of the word 'nigger'
>bans start getting handed out
>Everyone takes refuge in the couples dungeon
>Yes, the game has a relationship system, and that system is the couples dungeon.
>Run into problem because /v/ made mostly little girls
>They run to the starting area and start killing shit in a wave
>Server crashes again
>/v/ putzes around on the game for another couple of days until they got bored.
Fun times.
The whole time the game was utterly dead. We joined like the first day of launch and it only had maybe a dozen players in the starting town.
Did I mention the graphics, at all levels, look like complete ass?
>play mmo
>dungeon time
>get rolled into a group comprised of level 50+ players grinding for gear
>all of them run straight to the bosses heedless of mobs
>struggle through the mobs alone or with one other level 15 player
>get to the end of the dungeon
>50s already killed everything
>get reward and leave, never learning how to play the game properly
OR
>play MMO
>dungeon time
>start progressing through the dungeon
>get yelled at for not running the dungeon a specific way
>dont know im suppose to aggro then kite while everyone else kills the mobs and bosses
>either get kicked or abandoned when other players realize I didnt memorize the entire dungeon beforehand by watching youtube videos
>leave dungeon, never getting to experience the game as I go
I really, really want to get into some MMO, but everything nowdays just looks like theme park trash.
>>339298879
that would be great
tera has big ass monsters so that's also nice
>>339299520
You might like P1999. They managed to preserve the sense of community and interdependence of classic Everquest.
>>339290374
/thread
>>339294426
I wish hellgate london was more of an ARPGmmo it had so much potential
>>339291243
/thread
>>339299520
play mabinogi
>>339300073
doesn't mabinogi have like stage 5 cancer though?
the most fun i ever had in a mmo was ragnarok online but mostly in the low to mid high level ranges. max level of course boring as shit but exploring and earning your 2nd class was fun
>>339295452
this comes in their code
>>339299383
That sounds fun. Why would anyone want to stop the nigger loli herd from saving their game?
>>339294390
Shame. It's a really cute looking game.
>>339293410
STEM or die
did you major in one of the STEM, or did you just get lucky with investment?
>>339300073
>Nexon
No just no.
>>339291243
I blame millennials, even 20 year olds act like children online now a days. I miss playing Ultima Online.
I'm level 80 in ToS, pondering if I should quit, it's so different from RO, I feel like I have no purpose in the game, it's just been grinding doing quest after quest then moving to the next area
When does the game get good?
>>339300228
is that real
![monster-hunter-4-ultimate-topper[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n6gJagw.jpg "monster-hunter-4-ultimate-topper[1].jpg")
>>339297751
>>339287040
WoW before they "improved" it was all I ever wanted and still want from a MMO.
>>339301038
It doesn't
It's called Tree of Shit in Korea for a reason
>>339297751
You can't hide damage from the players.
>There are always faggots that time fights and figure out the DPS for everything.
>Casuals look up the charts when picking weapons
>tfw I realized people did that for MH, mapping out hitzones and shit. I mean seriously...
>>339286167
mobas and cheap fps games (tf2, csgo etc)
no one wants to pay $10 a month anymore when they can play addictive stuff for free or a one time small fee
>>339301934
How would they figure it out? The server tells the client when to change the appearance according to the damage done and when the monster dies. No actual numbers are sent to the client.
>>339302152
just time how long it takes to kill something
>>339302139
Thats always been the case, but MMO's still survived just fine for years.
People who want to play an MMO are not going to play something like CS:GO instead anyway. They are two completely different games and apeal to different people.
>tfw you play RO when it first comes out in us
>join some guild randomly
>ends up being a pretty gud guild
>learn from top tier players how to play well
>but you guys just sit in Izlude and shoot the shit a lot
>do WoE and have a blast
>jobs 2 come out
>itsokay.png
>battlegrounds and woe2 come out
>ehhh...
>stat changes and 3rd jobs come out
dropped. RIP RO. you used to be so much fun
>>339302354
You'd still never get anything accurate. The point was about keeping the community active in this regard and not just calculating the best build from knowing all stats and mechanics.
The only non-wow-clone is alive as ever. Thats also the answer.
https://de.scribd.com/doc/227579314/Test4
>>339302665
What is this game you speak of?
>>339302827
Forgot pic.
>>339302907
I've never played eve, but would really want to. Only problem is that i don't have dime to spare atm.
Once you've gotten addicted to a single MMO you really don't need to ever play another. Most people didn't want the next big MMO, they just wanted WoW.
I'm surprised so many studios were stupid enough to not realize that before they wasted millions of dollars.
>>339289765
l2 is total shit. It was good till c4 (those imba caster classes tho)
>>339301068
yes, and this is the code for the disband guild button, which made people know about /destroyguild
>>339303064
Eve is probably the only mmo that doesn't require to spend the massive amounts of time to be competitive unless you want to pay for play time with ingame cash. This is also the game where knowledge is more valuable than cash and time. For example I can make more ISK and do better in pvp with two week character than most players who plays for years.
>>339287040
>2007
?
>>339303806
That has always been a thing i've been trying to find, and knew i could find that in eve, but im not really fond of the space setting in mmos specially when its mostly just spaceships. But just got the game DLing and trying the trial.
If 1,3,5,7,9 I resub to FF XIV
>>339304682
Haha, don't do it anon. There is no point unless you are at the bleeding edge of raid content.
>>339297751
This guy knows his shit. I like idea with not naming items a lot. Agree in 90%
>>339287487
it had big hype because it was supposed to be a ragnarok successor, which is why it got duel english release. fucking lol so much for that, ended up just yet another korean grindan forever.
>>339304795
Yeah, I won't resub, but I don't really know what to play now.
For sure not another mmo game.
I need something partially addictive that will keep me busy and relaxed when I play after work, and somehow the mindless leveling of other jobs in FF14 was ok for me for some time.
>>339304682
Don't do it man. Just let it go.
When they decided to add LFR to the game, they made a conscious decision for the future of the game.
I was hopeful for the HW expansion as well, but they've made it very apparent what kind of game they're trying to push.
It's going to be WoW with a slightly shinier coat of paint and that's all it was ever meant to be.
>>339304128
Just remember one thing. Never, never ever do missions beyond epic arc or farm anomalies. They'll make you addicted because they give an acceptable amount of money with absolutely zero thinking. They are the reason people ragequiting eve and spouting about wow in space later on.
>>339304682
Congrats, you just saved yourself from resubbing to a shit MMO.
>My friends want me to go back to retail wow with them.
Should I do it?
>Thinking about trying Guild Wars 2 again?
Should I do it?
>Tera seems okay.
Should I keep playing it?
>>339305345
No.
No.
No.
>>339305345
no3
>>339305345
If you have any love for World of Warcraft or mmo genre in general then please, don't resub to wow.
When everyone were trying to kill WoW, WoW killed itself and turned it into a facebook games-queue simulator
>>339294119
Nah, man. We'll get MMOs that're family friendly first. Like WoW, but for VR displays. And then people will mod the shit out of them and turn back alley areas of large cities into illegal modding fuck parties. Imagine playing a sub based grinding MMO with friends and then stumbling into the wrong part of town and finding an orgy instead of that fucking table dancing shit.
Would you mod?
>>339304682
I did just the other day, but I don't really have anything else I want to play.
I enjoy the story quests, and it's still somewhat rewarding since I have the time to sink into it, but I'd hate it if I was totally solo. If I don't find people to raid with I might jump off again.
So if all MMOs are shit, what's the closest thing to the experience that I can play? I have serious tired gamer syndrome, and XIV was my cure for 550 hours up till this point.
implying
>>339286167
It was a fad, like the 2D side scroller or the over-the-shoulder cover shooter.
Yes, we still have new games coming out but there will always be a moment when these genres peaked and there was 1 MILLION TWOOPS of them
>>339290374
15/month is literally nothing.
I've never understood why people keep whining about such small amount of money.
>>339286167
market saturation
>>339286167
Playing online with your friends in an open world was a novel and exciting concept in 1999. It was further refined and "improved" over the years but it is no longer an interesting or compelling notion that you can play online with your friends in an open world game, that is the new normal. MMOs are built off of gameplay and world design elements that existed due to limitations in bandwidth and net code that no longer exist. The MMO has been fractured into a dozen different new kinds of games and that is why the genre died.
The main problem I have with MMOs is "end game". Everyone solos their way through their stupid quest chain to hit the max level and only then starts grouping up. But at that point you have no choice but to run the same boring shit with people until the crap you want drops. Then some update comes along - or worse, an expansion that ups the level cap - and all the shit you were just grinding for becomes garbage.
MMOs that focus on end game tend to waste time developing content that will be obsolete in the next update or two - they effectively remove their own content over time because why would you run the old shit when the new shit gives way better upgrades. It's stupid as hell.
All of the MMOs I have enjoyed the most are considered a major grind these days. But because it was just a grind people were able to drop in and out and help people out a lot more. You didn't have to worry about if you had done the prereq or had already done some quest because you were just grinding whatever bullshit was in that area - everyone got the same reward from joining up in that way. And BECAUSE the grind was so hard, and the level cap was such a pipe dream, it didn't become the focus of the game. It made all that other content in the MMO worth that much more.
>>339290374
I'm working 50 hour work weeks and still have plenty of time to sink into games. Gaming in general is a time sink, it's not some issue only present in MMOs.
>>339305064
I feel the same way, anon. The last few weekends I've been just sitting at my PC browsing 4chan. It's not enough to wind down after a week of stressful work.
>mmos
>dead
>>339306171
Because all MMOs are shit and not worth paying a single dime.
>>339307108
Developers still think that MASSIVE SIEGE BATTLES and having 100'S OF PLAYERS ON SCREEN are things that make a game good. They think that doing these things will make a game entertaining and impressive as if it's still 2005.
They don't build an experience any more; the only reason they have leveling up at all is out of tradition. It's rushed through to get you to max level so you can beat their 3 endgame instances and then buy DLC/Expansion packs for recycled content.
There is no world crafting and no sense of adventure or discovery. Everything you need to know about the game is handed to you in the first hour of gameplay through invasive HUD elements and handholding tutorials. The worlds, though technically large, feel incredibly small because traveling is all automated, instant, essentially free, and without consequence.
The Massively Multiplayer component of MMOs is, ironically, stagnating the genre. Devs are so worried about being abled to jam as many people together as possible that they sacrifice the quality of gameplay, environment design, and combat (especially combat). A real-time first person melee/ranged/magic game that only has MMO components in the hub cities would be incredible. Exploring the world with your friends instead of thousands of bunnyhopping randoms who are either griefing you on purpose (ganking) or accidentally because the game is improperly designed (only getting quest credit for NPC kills if you hit it first) IS NOT FUN.
The exploration outside of the main cities should be just you, your group members, and a very limited number of other groups spread out over that instance of the world (as an example, if you were on Kalimdor there would only be another 10 groups of 5 people of various levels).
what does /v/ think of chronicles of elyria?
They come and go idk i still like WoW. Im excited for Legion..still hoping for BETA : /
>>339307319
>A real-time first person melee/ranged/magic game that only has MMO components in the hub cities would be incredible.
Opinion discarded.
There's good MMOs, you just have to look a little deeper.
You can have a good active game with a few hundred players. It doesn't have to be popular. I play a MMO where there's typically 40 to 60 players online, which sounds like jack shit, but at any point I can go to some random cave and someone else will show up and we can group. It's small but it's still active as fuck 24/7.
Where's that guy that posts the list of decent sandboxy games in every MMO thread? I need to copy it next time I see it
>>339306936
Who's the one at the bottom with the thick beam?
It's been years since I last played that game.
Why the hell /v/ never mentions Mortal Online in mmo threads?
>No leveling
>No "end game content", just shit that you cant get into until you are strong enough
>No item drops, all wear made my crafting
>very little information on internet so everything is a mystery
>The stat you use improves system
>No in game map
>no conventional quests, no quest log, the few quests given by NPCs are just a text you need to remember and execute
>People pay each other for guarding, item fetching, wanted criminal hunting
>drop everything on dead and flag system
>Very steep entry curve so very few noob or underage
>player housing, guild wars, land claiming, war over resources
>f2p but not THAT much p2w.
This is literally /v/'s wet sandbow dream
pic related, something you will probraly never see in the game until one day you find yourself in it and scary the shit out of yourself.
>>339306171
>15/month is literally nothing.
this statement is objectively false
>>339307658
>not THAT much p2w
>>339286167
generic kill/fetch quests
>>339286167
It is rather telling that the MMOs that are standing the test of time are the pioneers ( UO, EQ ) the big mass market pleasers ( WoW, FFXIV ) and the strange niche "games" that have zero competition ( EVE, Second Life )
>>339307612
A drifter
I've been playing this game for about a week and i'm having quite a bit of fun with it. Just got to level 100. I'm taking my time and trying out different toons.
Despite this, undoubtedly, this game is dying and the server population is dwindling everyday. My question is does this game have a chance? Will it survive? I'm not too sure if it's worth more time investment if it's fated to die.
The game came out very recently so is it likely that any new patches can salvage this mess or is it just going to get worse and worse?
>>339307741
No ingame shop, you just pay for extra character slot, and you can pay a monthly fee for 2 benefits; your maximum skill cap go from 60 to 100(The total amount of points you can distribute across skills is unchanged) and you can use thievery skills.
So it is p2w in sense that you have to sub to compete high level, but you can not "pay more to win even more" which is the actual problem with p2w, and you wont need the increased skill cap for a good while in to the game anyway.
>>339286167
Shit developers, latency/netcode limits, stereotypes.
There's hardly any true mmos with actual gameplay that isn't action-bar based grindfests
>>339308390
Wow, that rationalization is mind blowing. That sounds terrible. It's literally impossible to compete if you don't pay. How is that only a little p2w?
>>339307658
Might actually give that a go. Does it have a lot of players?
>>339307590
western mmos look bland as shit
>>339307658
sounds good. will give a try
>>339308972
>sounds good
now read the steam reviews
>>339308297
Considering the game just closed for new members, they're probably going to work on the game a bit and then patch it up for a re-release in the late fall or such. Game will probably even out at around 10k players. Most of the current 30-40k is Brazilians anyway.
It's not dead to me, but all I do is log into a korean grindan machine every day so what do I know.
At least it' free.
>>339308547
Obviously you have to pay to compete, but you cant pay 20$ to open 5 pack, and another dude pays 100$for 60 packs, and a nother dude pays 200 for legendaries and it is a p2w fuck fest. Like the game, pay the price.
>>339308972
>>339308808
Yeah pretty populated, probably because there is only one server per region or something. Also no instancing shit or whatever blizz means with "phasing".
>>339309494
>Also no instancing shit or whatever blizz means with "phasing".
phasing is when you're on a different step of a chain as someone else that changes the world, therefore you can be in the same zone/instance but you won't see people who are in a different phase of it
I'm pretty sure warhammer did it before WoW, and someone might've done it before WAR
>>339309345
really? No more registration? Do you have a link for this?
>>339309345
>>339309781
Nvm. I found it.
>>339307571
You can have your skill-less point and click hotbar spam if you want, the basic idea is the same, kiddo.
>>339307658
I was totally in love with that game when it came out. I tried it again... Uhm, I think two years ago.
On paper it's incredible. It's somewhat obtuse when you first start, but manageable.
I ragequit because I spent so long scraping together money and gear and shit and the first time I wandered some distance from a city some invincible edgelord lagging around in circles hitting me from 15 feet away with a spear killed me and my friends and we lost our gear.
tl;dr
Excellent game on paper.
Shitty netcode causes it to fail.
>>339307658
It's pretty great. There used to be a /vg/ thread and I quit playing when that group disbanded. Most of the group got sucked into some larger guild. It was fun times tho.
Community is a little bit retarded. So many people think it's such a hardcore culture, but then most of them are carebears anyways. And I've heard a lot of complaints about GMs playing favorites but I've never witnessed any of it myself.
>>339308547
Well... you could pay and still lose. It's a pretty hard game.
it's an unlimited free trial and it's pretty awesome
I could play the game and enjoy it for years without paying. Out of all the time I've played, I've had a couple free months (not even sure how I got them, charity from devs I guess) and I've paid for 1 month.
IDK, I don't think an optional subscription is p2w, but hey. It's not a pretty game anyways. You'd probably hate it. So this is a pointless discussion :^)
>>339309880
That has literally nothing to do with my reply, which is directed against your proposal of further removing the MM from MMO.
Your reply made absolutely no sense.
>>339309345
This would be funny to watch if I hadn't been so excited for the game.
How do you launch an MMO to f2p and start restricting access in the same month is beyond me.
>>339310157
Your reply had no indication as to what you took issue with exactly, so that's your fault.
Taking a measure of the MM out of MMO would result in games actually being fun again in my opinion.
Like I said before, the actual gameplay depth is being sacrificed in order to have more random assholes jumping around on your screen.
Do you still find that fun? Did you just wake up from a 10 year long coma?
>>339310157
>implying your comment had any substance
>>339289332
yes
p l e a s e
>>339310485
>no indication as to what you took issue with
I'd say it was the part that I quoted.
>Taking a measure of the MM out of MMO would result in games actually being fun again in my opinion.
Apparently you don't like MMOs. Your solution would be to turn them into mostly single player games with glorified chatrooms ... hubs. My suggestion, don't play them if you don't like them.
>Like I said before, the actual gameplay depth is being sacrificed in order to have more random assholes jumping around on your screen.
You can't possibly generalize any more than that.
>Do you still find that fun? Did you just wake up from a 10 year long coma?
That's not the point. The point is that you want to remove the defining characteristic from a genre that doesn't seem to interest you, which is idiotic.
>>339310573
Like yours?
>>339287040
>Combination of WoW and 2007.
>That feel when 2007 was the last hurrah of Guild Wars 1, with the release of Guild Wars: Eye of the North
>That feel when they scrapped an entire campaign to begin working on the game that killed Arenanet
>>339289324
WoW is still the biggest MMO out there and it was fucking filled with slow grinding tedious shit gameplay from the get go. Kill x amount of x or pick up x amount of x fucking nonstop, 30+ quests for a single level later on.
>>339286167
FFXIV is a great themepark and EVE is a great sandbox.
If you want something else, you want a online multiplayer game not a MMO.
>>339310345
I get 45 fps average on low on my 980 when theres more then 10 enemies on screen and my average ping is 200ms, when I literally live 30 miles from the server. Also theres no bot capacha. They really need to do work on the game, hence it being closed.
>>339311115
>I'd say it was the part that I quoted.
Which included both my description of the gameplay and how I think the MM portion should be changed. How am I supposed to tell which one you're taking issue with when you contribute nothing?
>Apparently you don't like MMOs. Your solution would be to turn them into mostly single player games with glorified chatrooms ... hubs. My suggestion, don't play them if you don't like them.
I already don't play bad MMOs. Unfortunately, this has left me with a grand total of zero MMOs to play. Hence my opinion on how to improve them.
>You can't possibly generalize any more than that.
Please actually make a counter-point and give me an example of an MMO that has hundreds of players running around together that actually has challenging, player skill based combat. Currently you're just saying "NO YOU'RE WRONG" without actually presenting a counter-point.
>That's not the point. The point is that you want to remove the defining characteristic from a genre that doesn't seem to interest you, which is idiotic.
That particular defining characteristic has caused the entire genre to flounder and stagnate. I'm proposing a change to the tired formula.
>>339310129
>It's not pay2win, maybe everyone who pays will be complete garbage at the game and the advantage won't help!
>It's still free to play!
>I had fun playing it anyway!
>Why should I bother having a real discussion with you when I could just pretend that you don't have a very good point :^)
Unironically kill yourself, the game is obviously shit if it has people as stupid as you defending it.
The Perfect MMOimo
>DMC/Dark Souls series style combat
>A Mentor system that rewards both players when the less experienced player gets better.
>Map that Dwarfs the entirety of WoW's with uninstanced transition between zones (Dungeons will still be instanced)
>Skill system resembling D3's rune system, but several levels deeper (runes within runes within runes)
>Pre-Combat Update SWG crafting system
>Warhammer Online's Tome of Knowledge
>Hats
>Vanilla WoW mystery and exploration
>Wildstar's Housing
>Old content never gets completely obsolete that has both scaled up versions and legacy versions which allow players to run it challenge mode style
>Hats
>Pets
>>339307728
It's not even 2 hours worth of work in any civilized country, even if you were mopping floors or flipping burgers. So yeah, it's nothing.
>>339306551
>The main problem I have with MMOs is "end game".
Yep, the worst part is once I hit 60 in WoW, the last thing I wanted to do was fucking raid, yet there was like no other content.
I think they need to completely rework or even remove the level system for MMO's, make progression far more organic and based more around skill.
I think this is why games like DayZ and such are so popular over modern MMOs. The problem with "Survival simulators" is that their mechanics encourage people to be anti-social assholes.
>>339312485
But can my pets have hats?
>>339307319
>A real-time first person melee/ranged/magic game that only has MMO components in the hub cities would be incredible.
Truth be told, I pretty much got that experience from playing Destiny. Granted I started playing only after most recent expansion was released, so I didn't burn myself out on the garbage vanilla release.
