Instead of bitching about all the stuff that's not in the game. Can't we at least judge the game for what it does have? I agree that ideally the game should have been given at least another year of development time. But what we got is still a fucking brilliant game. I haven't played anything this good since Fallout New Vegas.
it's got my favorite MGS character in it
>>339033569
Shallow stealth that controls well. Repetitive missions, threadbare story. No characters or narrative. Pointless base building a research. You can complete any mission with the starter gun or no guns at all. No difficulty levels, literally repeated missions. The lack of an actual narrative or characters fucks the pacing to a ludicrous degree given the complete lack of plot. Villain's plan makes no sense, his motives are retarded. One of the worst segments in gaming, the jeep ride. Deliberate removal of line, which means what is in the game is terrible and detracts from a game already lacking in characters. Buddy system is a gimmick, open world ruined the formula. The game is basically Far Cry 2, down to the literal collection of diamonds and clearing outposts with respawning enemies.
So just in case you are a retard
What the game has:
>No characters
>Pointless base building and research
>Mediocre stealth
>An open world that ruins the pacing of story and gameplay while adding nothing
>Open world is 90% filler missions that are copy/paste
>Buddy system is shallow, just like the core gameplay
>Villain is literally a retard
>Jeep segment
>No plot
>No difficulty levels only missions that are copy/pasted
>A large portion of "core missions" is just missions you already played on higher difficulties that are not consistent with the challenge you might be looking for
Listen moron, ignoring what didn't make it to the final game does not change any of these glaring problems. When you look at what the game has, it has nothing but shit design stemming from the choice to go open world.
>>339034163
>>No characters
Retard
>>Pointless base building and research
There's a lot of games that you can beat using only the starting equipment. All the stuff you can develop in MGSV is there to add multiple methods of infiltration
>>Mediocre stealth
Better than any the stealth game ever.
>>An open world that ruins the pacing of story and gameplay while adding nothing
I agree with this one
>>Open world is 90% filler missions that are copy/paste
and this one too
>>Buddy system is shallow, just like the core gameplay
It's not. If anything it's too overpowering.
>>Villain is literally a retard
Just because you can't sypathise with someone personally, doesn't mean no one can.
>>Jeep segment
Autism
>>No plot
Retard
>>No difficulty levels only missions that are copy/pasted
Chapter 2 is actually the game on Hard mode, similar to GZ's Hard mode. In chapter 2 your detection range is bigger and guards won't fall for every magazine you throw.
>>A large portion of "core missions" is just missions you already played on higher difficulties that are not consistent with the challenge you might be looking for
>the game has no difficulty settings but the higher difficulty settings are stupid
???
>>339034163
>>339033569
Nothing? You made the thread and you aren't even going to try?
>>339035229
Sorry mum but you can't pause multiplayer games so you'll just have to wait until I finish before replying.
>>339034163
RIP thread
>>339034143
new stream when?
I miss them 2bh
>>339035215
A character by the literally definition is someone with a definitive arc and established disposition. This disposition is supposed to change or not change based on happenings in the plot. In MGSV everyone around the player character exists to spout expository dialogue and nothing more. The player character itself had lines removed from the game intentionally to remove his character. Which as a result removed the character from others. If characters do not react to one another, they are just stand ins. There is all this talk with no action that impacts the plot.
Regardless of what you said about research and base building, it doesn't dispute the fact that it is superfluous and is meant to create padding with gimmicky additions to an already shallow core game.
It is not better than any stealth game ever, and it depends on the context. Reality check, the MGS series is actually not a good stealth game franchise. The games are of a quality, but the stealth is never the focus for a majority of the games. They dissolve into gimmicks and action often not returning to stealth gameplay at all. The game that features the most sneaking is MGS3.
Buddy system being shallow means the act of getting favor or losing it, their impact on gameplay and their reason for being in the game. Every single buddy functions nearly the same to try and create no clear "best". The buddies have no impact on the plot aside from Quiet which brings me to something I forgot.
Quiet is literally the only character in the entire game, which is ironic given people's dislike for her. She has a beginning, middle and end. She changes and grows for better or worse. She has actual conflicts.
>>339036416
continued
Skull Face's plan was to hold the world hostage by controlling the distribution of nukes after creating escalation by showing the world his metal gear. His reason is that he claims his language was stolen from him, but that doesn't make sense. He claims the world was really unfair to him, despite Zero giving him a high paying job in the Illuminati. So Skull Face rambles about language when it really has nothing to do with anything. In the end, Skull Face was trying his own method of the Boss's will. Indirectly he wanted to keep Zero from controlling the world because he believes no one should. So his plan is to control the world by holding it hostage, just like Zero was planning to. So while his main goal is to act out the Boss's will, he also for no reason wants to kill everyone who speaks English because this in no way will help him sell nukes to other countries. The funniest part about this is that Skull Face inadvertently removes his language from being spoken, which is exactly what he did not want. So with all of that, he planned to use a psychic child to control his metal that doesnt work instead of making one that does work. His intention was to hedge all bets that he has the most hatred in the world so no one else can control Mantis. Because in the game Mantis latches onto whoever has the most hate in the room, thus performing their will...for some reason.
>>339036487
continued
The jeep segment is horrible because it is the revelation of how inept of a villain Skull Face is and how his plot mentioned above makes no fucking sense. It is overly long and tone deaf. Your character just sits there looking disinterested while Skull Face give his "master plan" away which again makes no sense. So somehow the people who decide to work for Skull Face have no objections to his mass genocide by removing their primary language, when they out number him and would have a reason to stop him. The guy driving the jeep just kind of sits there listening to how Skull Face is going to kill everyone who speaks English. They then play Sins of the Father which does not fit the game, nor the scene. It is what you call tone deaf.
The plot of the game is BB and Kaz wanna make a new PMC. They do that and then find Skull Face and stop him. Some random unrelated nonsense happens in between. The events that unfold throughout the game are just that, events. They are not strung together to form a plot because there is a lack of narrative. There is a lack of narrative because narrative is how a story is told. You need characters to tell a story. But when characters make comments that do not effect the plot and are one offs that carry no weight or create new conflict, that is a lack of narrative. It is also hard to have a narrative in an open world game. The pacing of the plot is all over the place because it is at the mercy of the player. So without characters to carry a narrative, to tell the story and random events that don't progress anything at all - there ceases to be anything you could call a plot.
You last two comments are pointless.
>>339036560
I should correct myself. There is a plot, it sucks. There is no narrative, so you don't have a story.
The game lacks a story, it is a series of events with no closure.
>>339036487
Wasn't the entire point of Skullface to be fucking insane?
>>339036654
Plot + Narrative = Story
>>339036665
No, he was supposed to be completely serious and menacing. There is no hit anywhere in the tapes or events that indicates the intention that his character was supposed to be some Joker-eaq character.
He is "intelligent" resourceful and "calculated". He showcases a menacing demeanor in GZ and comes across wonderfully. In MGSV he is a moron with a stupid mask who's plan makes zero sense, ironically enough.
>>339036487
Oh and I forgot. The Patriot AI that Skull Face supposedly got rid of or was trying to get rid of, it is never made clear, was meant to censor the world by controlling the distribution of information. So Skull Face wanted to counteract that by removing English from the world. So instead of using his infinite resources to stop this AI, or maybe he did which makes him even more of a retard, the virus was to counter the AI. But that gets lost in the incoherent nature of the "plot". Skull Face finds Zero. Skull Face wants Zero to tell him where the AI is. Signet is with the AI to make sure things go well. He learns this from Zero. He then does something or does not do something about the AI like I said above. It makes no sense.
>>339035215
Still with us bud?
>>339036416
>>339036487
>>339036560
damn dude, you are so on point. I've typed out some lengthy posts but never this long. I really appreciate these posts
So is this game gonna have dlc or what? I keep hearing that the game is unfinished and the plot is unbaked as fuck, so if they cut out content they'll sell it back to us, right?I'm only 13% through the game
>>339036416
>Quiet is literally the only character in the entire game
>implying Huey doesn't have a character arc
>implying Liquid doesn't have a character arc
>implying Venom doesn't have a character arcEven fucking Big Boss has a character arc and he only has one scene in The Phantom Pain.
Of course Miller and Ocelot are going to just be exposition machines, in the context of the story, that's literally their job. While I was very disappointed in Ocelot characterization in-game, it at least makes sense in the story given his loyalty to Big Boss. Miller too, except he was fucking great.
Just because MGS3 has the least forced action sections, doesn't mean it has the most sneaking. MGSV has almost infinitely more. Both in actual hours spent sneaking and the percentage of gameplay.
>>339036560
I thought the jeep scene was silly as fuck at first, but on my second playthrough I realized (or head-canoned or whatever the fuck you feel like brushing it off as) how it plays into the game thematically. By this point in the game, Snake has only just found out that Skull Face is cooking up some serious shit and then he reveals that he wants to destroy the English language. I'll admit it's pretty weak but I feel like the reason Snake doesn't say shit all game is because the plot revolves around Language and it's a very prominent theme in the game. There was definitely a better way to do this than a 7 minute jeep ride with some music halfway through for almost no reason.
Definitely play the game again. There is a lot of plot and narrative in between a large amount of fluff missions.
>>339033569
>But what we got is still a fucking brilliant game.
>>339037265
If Chapter 3 was $60 I'd still buy it.And smile while doing so.
I put it in about 60 hours. I'm never playing it again.
>>339033569
>Can't we at least judge the game for what it does have?
People have been doing this already. Boring environments, repetitive mission structures, dull bosses, an awful and poorly presented story, unbalanced gameplay, tedium imposed by traveling to mission sites--the game has all of these, and many of these are pointed out in every MGSV thread.
The game isn't without its successes, though.
Expectation of how it connects to the MGS lore
Expectation of stealth that is on par if not better than its predecessors
Expectation of the same intensity, sense of urgency in every other game from the franchise
Expectation of characters to at least behave consistently in relation to the other installments
Expectation of open world that does not tarnish the flare of MGS-stlye game play, if not taking it to a higher level
You see, MGSV was expected, and in fact advertised as the bridge between the 2 sets of events in the timeline, in addition to being a latest installment of a franchise that was known to integrate technology tightly into its gameplay. You simply cannot write off its supposed relation to those things and ask people to judge it as it were a new standalone title. None of the problems I listed above is a direct result of cut content, but blatantly present in the portion that we did already get.
And this is why people consider Ground Zeros a better game than TPP. At least it managed enough self-constrain to not lose its focus away from what made MGS great in the first place. Camp Omega is both open in space but tight in level design. Skullface was much more of a character in there. The tapes were used delicately and to great effect, for both cinematic and gameplay. The actions and fates of Chico and Paz are closely related to past games and immediately you feel attached to the issue at hand. The urgency, the atmosphere, the need to rush to your mission. They really fucked it up bad by not just bring the same stuff over to TPP.
>>339036416
>The game that features the most sneaking is MGS3.
Ghost Babel and MGS2 are a lot more stealth-centric than MGS3 is.
>>339038102
>tfw I fell for the meme that TPP would build on GZ
It controlled well, has some solid game mechanics, and is optimized like a dream. Other than that, I can't really say MGSV was a particularly excellent game because of what other anons on this thread posted. It's a lot better as an action game like Far Cry than the failure of a MGS it turned out to be.
>>339037342
>I'll admit it's pretty weak but I feel like the reason Snake doesn't say shit all game is because the plot revolves around Language and it's a very prominent theme in the game.
Venom doesn't say much because he's a player avatar built in Big Boss's image.
It's still repetitive and throws delays at you at every opportunity to artifically lengthen game time
>unskipable helicopter ride
>have to run to target anyway
>upgrades taking real time
>nedding that fulton upgrade for that niglet on the tower so you can unlock the ending
Its like a ubisoft game but nobody complains because of jap bias
>>339038298
meme'ing / shitposting aside, this is (un)ironically the sad state of affairs of the current gaming landscape. Old school devs losing focus due to the need of appealing to casuals, publisher who grew impatient and just want to cash it quick. GZ was probably thrown out by Kojima to prove to Konami that TPP could sell so they wouldn't just out right stop their development there. Imagine if All the stuff from GZ just became the prologue of MGSV like it was rumored to be.
I hate how they handled the tapes in TPP. The content in the tapes are mostly pretty good but most of them shouldn't even exist. They also just appear in your inventory because why the fuck not.
In GZ the tapes were a major part and integrated to the game. In TPP they're just magical items that appear for you and force the plot forward.
>>339038178
MGS2 is the most corridor-like out of all MGS, and as a result the player is required to go stealth as you have limited options. MGS3 in fact introduced a lot of open spaces, not to the point of MGSV tier open world but still enough breathing room for players to breeze through. It does have some choke points and indoor sections that keep things tight though.
>>339036560
I agree with most of your points but there's really no problem in having a narrative in an Open World game. A great example is Red Dead Redemption. Most Open World games just handle this by having "story missions" then everything else. Most of the time certain side items are only opened after certain plot elements have been passed.
I agree that pacing can be difficult and that MGSV should not have been open world, i'm just saying it could have been done.
>>339039263
This is why I like MGS1 and 2 more than the rest. Infiltrating a facility makes getting through well guarded rooms almost puzzle like, in addition to making things more tense and little things like timing your movement between points of cover a lot more intense.
From 3 on, the games have gotten more and more open and the stealth is a lot less satisfying.
>>339040208
If you haven't, I recommend you play the MSX games and Ghost Babel.
>>339039263
Not only that, but MGS3 and onward also introduce more weapons and ammo as well as CQC which make direct confrontations with enemies a lot less demanding.
>>339040794
MGS3 at least had justified excuses to shift focus, and it did so with good taste. The character is now a rookie grunt and it's 40 years prior to Shadow Moses, both you, the opponents, and their defenses are supposedly more primitive. The game was also released in the same console generation as MGS2 so there was a practical need to distance from the formula. The stealth is compromised but in exchange we got a more grounded plot, more subtly in character/environment interaction via the codec. Overall I find MGS3 was easier to emtionally invest into than 1 or 2, while feeling less like a challenging game, for better or worse.
>>339039263
>>339040208
>>339038178
2/3 of MGS2 is gimmicked. Snake and Raiden for the first hour.
>>339033569
>Can't we at least judge the game for what it does have?
You mean like
The worst implemented Open World in pretty much any game
The most boring side mission I've ever seen in a Triple A game.
Actually, some of the most boring main missions I've ever seen in a Triple A game.
Audiotapes that are meant to replace actual character interaction.
A bunch of plotthreads that do nowhere and have little significance to the series as a whole.
>>339041534
Most of the gimmicks are just secondary objectives to sneaking though. Taking photographs while sneaking, freezing bombs while sneaking, escorting Emma while sneaking. There are exceptions--the brief underwater sections that basically exist to give the player a break and the sniping segments which basically replace Sniper Wolf--but MGS2 is a lot more stealth oriented than MGS1 or MGS3 onward.
>>339040208
MGS1 pretty much simply modernized the set pieces from MG2 into a 3D graphics, while in practice the gameplay of MGS1 is still 2D for majority of the time, perhaps except boss fights. It was ground breaking not in ideas but in implementation and execution. MGS2 kind of build upon that and extents even further into the tight space infiltration and puzzle aspects.
I tool feel that 3 onwards did derail the series into too broad of a spectrum, but both 3 and 4 still managed to stay its focus on telling a story while the player does the job. 4 already showed signs of the devs' limitation to keep things in perspective, 5 distinctly different environments were simply too much of a task to be fully mapped out for tight stealth, as a result probably only chapter 1 and 2 felt like MGS while 3,4,5 were like throw backs or simply unfinished.
>>339041997
Arsenal Gear is a slaughter house. That's another part.
>>339042037
Act 1, 2 and 5(?) are the only stealth parts and 5 is about 2 minutes of sneaking.
>>339042053
Yeah, but it's just an endgame action sequence on par with the escape sequences of MG2, MGS1, and MGS3.
>>339041738
>Actually, some of the most boring main missions I've ever seen in a Triple A game.
The side missions are shit, but the main missions actually either have more interesting map design than normal or a silly gimmick that sometimes works perfectly and sometimes doesn't, but it still offers variety that isn't in the side-ops and that's why they're not really as shit.
Main ops also have extra objectives to work for, and those are always fun and reward you with some good shit.
The only real issue is the replay missions, some alterations like Subsistance are cool but the standard hard mode or total stealth are both kind of boring desu, not to mention the extra objectives all stay the same, that's their real issue. Main ops are actually good, anyways.
Also, as a side thing, it's stupid to not have this song perfect for fighting Sahelantrophus with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAZToWeS6Eg and NOT FUCKING USE IT WHAT THE FUCK
Empty open world?
Shittiest "boss fights" in the series?
A shitty twist at the end?
>>339042630
>Shittiest "boss fights" in the series?
That's MGS4.
>>339042701
V has no boss fights
>>339042269
It really could have used more missions that aren't just mercenary work for factions you never actually interact with on a personal level. I wish they would have done it like most other Open World games and had a short cutscene before and after every mission to lend them a bit more context.
Or alternatively there should have been more set pieces. There were a few good ones but most felt kinda anticlimactic
>>339038102
>You see, MGSV was expected, and in fact advertised as the bridge between the 2 sets of events in the timeline
Can we stop with this retarded argument already? MGS2 was advertised as Snake's great adventure, MGS3 was expected to be connected to MGS2 at least in some fucking way, MGS4 was expected to have gameplay, PW was expected not to be shit. Boo hoo
>>339042701
I don't think 4s boss fights are bad. The bosses are bad as characters, but the gameplay is good and varied.
I don't like raven, but everyone else is okay.
>>339042269
I REALLLY wish they would have gone all in with the 80s aesthetic. They originally had all this neon and noir shit going on. The damage indicators on screen being burned film is a remnant of that. Also not using the Phantom Pain theme in an animated opening sequence like MGS3 is unforgivable.
>>339043030
>MGS3 was expected to be connected to MGS2 at least in some fucking way
It was, though admittedly in a somewhat oblique way. The game hinted at the creation of the Patriots and revealed Ocelot has been their agent from the get go.
>>339034163
Played through it twice and I can say you're wrong on almost every account. Characters are great, their arcs just don't have an ending (because the game isn't finished), stealth is majestic, base building is entirely optional, if it's pointless to you, don't do it (I've finished the second playthrough with zero fultons and no base building and I had a shitload of fun with the game), open world provides a great feeling of adventure when going out on side ops, moving from one camp to another freely is fun, buddies provide some of the most innovative features in MGS ever. I agree that there should've been difficulty levels and that plot is unfinished, everything else is just you being a retard. So the game is amazing, but unfortunately it's not finished. But I'm tired of arguing about it, so just fuck off.
>>339036416
>Reality check, the MGS series is actually not a good stealth game franchise
Reality check, you're speaking out of your ass. MGS3 had some of the deepest stealth mechanics and MGS4 expanded on that. Splinter Cell never even got close and everything else is just shit when it comes to stealth.
>>339043429
>zero fultons and no base building
Do you have to play the whole game with the starting gear?
>>339043429
It's actually finished, though. Its incomplete state is part of what makes the game. Yes, Kojima was retarded enough to pull that shit in his last game for the series.
>>339043030
The difference is not the nature but the degree of how far the end product derails from what it's supposed to be. MGSV drags itself out of the franchise in as many corners as possible, while 2,3,4 or even PW tried new things while for the most part keep some old aspects to at least be identifiable as direct sequels. MGSV simply is way over the rainbow while not even being all that interesting by itself.
Is it worth 21€? Currently on sale on steam.
Are there any other games that have multiplayer like MGO? I had fun with it when I played with my friend, but it's a dead piece of shit now. Umbrella Corps looks similar but that may be shit as well.
>>339036487
>So his plan is to control the world by holding it hostage
Nope, you're missing the point. He wanted to arm the whole world. He would have the finger on the trigger, but that's just a fail safe in case things go wrong. He wanted a stable world where MAD prevents people from fucking with other countries. An admirable vision in my opinion.
>The funniest part about this is that Skull Face inadvertently removes his language from being spoken
What? English isn't his language.
>>339036560
>makes no sense
It does, I just explained it to you. You're just being stupid. Stop.
>somehow the people who decide to work for Skull Face have no objections to his mass genocide by removing their primary language
Why are you assuming it's their language? And why are you assuming they know the plan? They're just hired guns.
>The events that unfold throughout the game are just that, events. They are not strung together to form a plot because there is a lack of narrative
Again, what? The plot is DD looking for Cypher. Most mission provide you with some intel as to where Cypher may be and what their plan is. That's the story.
>>339043345
>revealed Ocelot has been their agent
That was revealed in MGS2. And MGS3 didn't really explain shit about the Patriots. It only came together in MGS4, MGS3 was made no fucking sense on its own, it was just a side story at release.
>>339043551
For the most part, yes. But really that's what pure stealth is all about. Just go in naked, that's the fun part.
>>339043663
The difference is that it's the first MGS you've played on release, that's the difference. I've been playing MGS since 2 and I've been buttblasted so many times the MGS5 switcheroo didn't even bother me.
>>339044215
Key words being "from the get go."
And it explained that the Patriots used to be the Philosophers and were formed through Ocelot's duplicity and the machinations of the CIA director, which is more than MGS2 gave us.
