Music is the most important thing in a game.
HD sprites are more important 2bh
I usually mute game music and play my own.
>>339028452
not really
It's more important than most people probably realize. Good music can make a great atmosphere perfect. But I doubt it's the most important aspect of the game, or that any single aspect of a game can be the most important. Games are the sums of all their aspects, it's how they're packaged together so to speak that counts.
>>339028452
I agree Lain.
Gameplay > Art style > Music > Story > Graphics
There. That's all videogames need to be. Music and art style can change places, but everything else stays.
There is literally no bad game with good music.
>>339028452
This is what Creative Assembly actually believed. And their games proved that theory incorrect. Because it doesn't matter if you put Beethoven or Bach in your games. If they are shit no amount of orchestrated music can save it.
>>339029073
Sonic 06 is a prime example.
>>339029069
Gameplay = Art Style = Music = Story > Graphics
There we go
>>339029127
>Sonic Buttrock and Bootleg Squeenix Music
>Good
Nuh bruh
>>339028815
>>339028932
Spot the PC gaymers
>>339029105
It's more like that other anon said anyway, games are a collection of different aspects.
It's also important to make something fitting. Classical music tell a story of their own, not emphasize on scenes already there. There's more to sound direction than simple song making.
>>339029069
This is stupid. Different games try to be different things. Some games are entirely story based, some don't have stories at all. etc etc. You can't rank all these things like its universal for all games, there's only your preferences.
>>339029073Jet Set Radio
>music is the most important thing in life
>>339029073
Drakengard 1 & 2
>Playing the Dual Shock version of RE1 after playing the normal Director's Cut.
I want a trippy Lain game in english.
>>339028452
What a meme anime.
>>339029195
>get examples
>lol no these arent examples
fuck you lain
>>339028452
Secret of Mana composer is doing another game with the skullgirls people
>>339029236
All I'm saying is if you're gonna make a video game that isn't a visual novel or some shit, it better be fun to play.
I'm not trying to play a book.
>>339029448
>inb4 another MN9
>>339029073
Lot of showalvare nes games can prove you wrong
>>339029069
Level design > gameplay
>>339029393
sauce?
>lain fag is autistic and has odd opinion
wow. its almost like every lain fag has the same "look how unfun I am" gimmick
>>339028967
This
Music and cute girls*
>>339029195
>Sonic Buttrock and Bootleg Squeenix Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmyAYu8EdGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxzuK_qmCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPnawUNz5o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vtd6mp2t_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrxEu_4oEh0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPC55RVN9Mg
Not even trying.
>>339029214
I have never done that on pc. All my pc games I listen to the game, but on xbox I always had the media player in the background.
>>339028967
>Games are the sums of all their aspects
This so much, almost every aspect of the game has some influences on the gameplay
>>339029073
sonic 06, undertale, action 52 dam busters
>>339029560
Why do you think they are like that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_gObHt1uZA
>>339029152
Cancer
ZHANKO VIRU
>>339029647
Sounds like the kind of stuff you'd hear in the menus of shitty flash games
>>339029992
I'm under the assumption you enjoy literally nothing.
>what I thought as a kid
Story > Gameplay = Visuals > music
>What I understand now
Replayability > Challenge = Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
Anyone that disagrees has yet to really move beyond their childish roots and improve the quality of their video game pallate and probably still enjoys playing games like The Witcher, Uncharted, Mass Effect, etc. for their story.
The single biggest problem with gaming over the last 2 generations has been the shift to making games more cinematic with a narrative-first development process. This medium has tried to hard to gain relevancy by mimicking film that it has lost its identity and dampened what makes it unique.
>>339030204
I bet you think the souls games have "replayability"
>>339029069
>Nep
Opinion discarded.
>>339030247
>I bet you think the souls games have "replayability"
Are you implying they don't?
I've made 3 different characters for demon's Souls alone and had 3 radically different experiences.
>>339029069
>gameplay
>mattering
>>339030204
I don't think Challenge is something that defines the quality of a game, Wario Land 2 is a game where you literally CAN NOT DIE, and is fairly a breeze, but the stimulation of exploration of the timeline/levels and the other aspects make it an enjoyable experience to see it through to the end(s).
>>339030473
>I don't think Challenge is something that defines the quality of a game, Wario Land 2 is a game where you literally CAN NOT DIE
There isn't a single easy game that wouldn't be better if the game wasn't harder. That doesn't mean the game can't be good and easy at the same time.
>>339028452
If it's so important to you then try to recognize what i whistled badly here.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0U5F9CivUxV
I heard it once and it got stuck in my head but i don't know what's it from. I'm sure it's a 2015 or 2016 game though.
Don't use headphones.
>>339028452Fun >Gameplay > Humor/Dialogues > Characters and interactions > Music > Story > Graphics
I usually can appreciate mediocre gameplay with a fine humor and funny interactions though.
>>339029152
>>339029236
>>339029538
>>339030204
>>339030447
>>339030924
Anything but gameplay as the primary aspect of the game really shows how low your priorities are for the industry. A game should at least be the most innovative in its genre / playstyle.
None of these posts even provide an argument for non-gameplay based gaming. Get a fucking book or movie if you're not interested in what the medium actually provides. Your drugs aren't welcome here.
>>339029073
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZlYGN5W2Yg
No, gameplay is the most important of a game. Music just sets the mood.
>>339031058
And my point was not providing a counter argument, but my ability to not always prioritize it if I had a lot of fun anyway.
Gameplay SHOULD be the primary aspect of a game
>>339031058
What's the point of gameplay when your levels are fucking shit
>>339028815
I mute the music so I can hear the game. I think people that listen to the same 10 ingame tunes for 15-500 hours are god damn autistic.
>>339028452
>>339029073
Why is Lain such a cutie?
>>339031232
You can't exclusively suggest levels are the most important aspect of a game because a game with "nice levels" but shitty gameplay is still an awful game. A game should have decent levels, said sort of arbitrarily because there are so many genres, but mostly multiplayer games. SP games are ordinarily unaffected by that.
>>339031058
>"gameplay" as some all em comparing generic term
Nice meme
>>339031462
You're the only person making it a generic term by posting that. If you can't put up for a specific genre, then shut up.
>>339031345
Just hear them if they are good enough, anon.
Games with amazing OST are a thing
>>339031369
Lain here, I say games should have level design>Gameplay>artstyle>music>story
Please follow this formula for success.
>>339031376
Gameplay is basically the base game, level design is putting everything together
>>339031058
Movies and books don't have stories that change depending on actions you make. What other arguments for story based games do you need? Video games can be the most effective medium to tell a story on, they can also be fun without stories at all. It all depends on what the game sets out to be and how well the developers actually accomplish that.
Personally, I'm totally fine with RPGs that have excellent stories, but only average gameplay. If you don't like that, that's great. The market caters to all sorts of preferences.
>>339031635
You can have good gameplay and barely any chance to explore and fully use every aspect, unfortunately.
>>339031653
>Personally, I'm totally fine with RPGs that have excellent stories, but only average gameplay.
Opinion discarded.
>>339031653
> Movies and books don't have stories that change depending on actions you make. What other arguments for story based games do you need?
Call them VNs or interactive movies, they aren't games.
> Personally, I'm totally fine with RPGs that have excellent stories, but only average gameplay. If you don't like that, that's great. The market caters to all sorts of preferences.
Most RPGs fall into the "cute gameplay but shit challenge, why am I even min-maxing shit", but I agree
>>339028452
a video screen is the most important thing in a video game
>>339031635
OK, but it stands that gameplay is more important than level design. Any action game with single button spam doesn't promote creativity and entertainment because it's repetitive. Level design doesn't make that game fun to play.
>>339031653
Books have choosing an adventure as well. So, if another medium having that is your only argument, boom. Headshot.
If you use any artistic element, it should not fall shorter than any other element in your work.
And you don't seem to understand
whats this anime about? is it any good? its not secretly moe garbage right?
>>339031930
>they aren't games.
Stop being an elitist and just have fun.
>>339031992
>Books have choosing an adventure as well. So, if another medium having that is your only argument, boom. Headshot.
Not nearly to the same extent as games can. Books are very limited in how many previous choices can effect future choices and how they all come together. When done well, games can have an order of a magnitude more possibilities than a choose your own adventure book.
You talk about this like there's an objective truth about what videogames should always be.
Each person has its own different preferences with games (and anything else really), there's no perfect or ultimate balance.
For me it's:
Gameplay=Story > Art Style > Music > Graphics
If it's an action game I put gameplay first, but if it's an RPG, I find story a lot more important.
And fuck this cinematic bullshit trend. What's the point in focusing on story if it's going to be so shitty anyway.
>>339029815
Must've been so much fun to make that track.
>>339032226
>You talk about this like there's an objective truth about what videogames should always be.
There is. A game with great gameplay can always be more appealing and more well received than story shit.
>>339032218
Lain is moe as fuck
>>339031992
> OK, but it stands that gameplay is more important than level design. Any action game with single button spam doesn't promote creativity and entertainment because it's repetitive. Level design doesn't make that game fun to play.
I disagree.
A simple gameplay but with an amazing game design and difficulty can be way more enjoyable than a complex and deep gameplay but with a poor level design and challenge.
Good level design is very important to make your gameplay shine and look interesting even when it's actually simple
>>339032336
>There is.
There wouldn't be so much disagreement if this was objective. There's no point in denying the obvious.
>A game with great gameplay can always be more appealing and more well received than story shit.
But a game with good gameplay and a good story is usually more well received than a game with good gameplay and a shit story (especially if the game tries to have a story and isn't 100% gameplay focused).
>>339032469
>There's no point in denying the obvious.
You underestimate people's stubbornness
>>339032220
I am having fun, don't worry about it.
It's okay to have fun with VNs and movies and I "played" them myself but let's not call them games
>>339032436
You're not giving examples. Games are based on gameplay. A game with simple rooms with enemies to clear is more fun than a shitty game with diverse levels.
>>339028452
You are correct.
>>339032469
>There wouldn't be so much disagreement if this was objective
They don't have to admit it for it to be true.
>But a game with good gameplay and a good story is usually more well received than a game with good gameplay and a shit story
That's not countering that other post at all.
>>339032582
Let's pick a very famous game here with a simple and repetitive gameplay but cute "level design" and enough challenge : Touhou
>>339028452
Yes.
I have played a good handful of shit games because the music was on point.
>>339029236
The official rankings
>Gameplay
If your core gameplay is weak then anything you pile on top of it will become a waste.
Think about how many shitty games have awesome music (Sonic '06) or a great story; if the gameplay is shit then nobody is going to give a fuck about what the rest of the game offers.
>Music
Music helps set the scene and tells the players what to expect from the scene. Some of the more memorable parts of the game that people will remember is the music and how it was used to increase the emotion of a scene.
I still recall the one part in Twilight Princess where you had to escort Midna's weakened form to Zelda and I also remember how pumped I felt when I heard the boss theme for Persona 4 for the first time.
On the other hand, I also remember games where it sounded like nails scratching on a chalk board.
A good soundtrack can make an all around mediocre game memorable and lessen the quality of an all around mediocre game as well.
>Art Style
A game's aestetics is what draws in the crowd and gets them to give your game a chance. Of course, a good art style won't make a mediocre game better but if it's nice to look at, it'll at least get people to give it a shot.
>Story
Story in video games is like story in porn, it's expected but not all that necessary.
Really, all you need as far as story goes is three sentences that explain the who, what, when, where, and why (and sometimes how) with any additional details being relagated to giving the player context and investment into the world.
I've seen games that were able to tell a story without even one line of dialogue spoken and I've also seen games that treated its story as an asset at the cost of everything else.
Honestly, even RPGs don't need that much of a story, I know because some of my favorite RPGs were the Mario RPGs (sans SPM and sticker star).
>Graphics
The smoother the better but as long as it's not dropping every few seconds, who cares?
>>339029537
Nothing will ever top MN9 in terms of failed kickstarters mate.
Ever since Dina its been a downhill slope with no end in sight.
>>339032336
Entirely subjective. Just the fact that I disagree is proof enough that it's up to each person.
One of the main strengths of videogames is the variety of things they can do and communicate, through visuals, gameplay, story, music, etc.
If we limit ourselves to what videogames have to always be, it's just slowly killing it, as diversity (and potential artistic expression) dies.
And I mean, you say
> more appealing and more well received than story shit
There have been so many videogames that have sold a lot of copies mainly for its story, regardless of how good or bad it may be.
Telltale games, Life is Strange, The Order, even fucking Uncharted to an extent.
>>339032575
>stubborness
You dismiss my own different opinion about objective truth and you call ME stubborn?
Try to be a bit more introspective.
>>339028452
It helps a lot with atmosphere like any other form of media
>>339033023
>You dismiss my own different opinion about objective truth and you call ME stubborn?
Are you retarded? I wasn't even the guy you're arguing with
>>339032847
>If your core gameplay is weak then anything you pile on top of it will become a waste.
>
>Think about how many shitty games have awesome music (Sonic '06) or a great story; if the gameplay is shit then nobody is going to give a fuck about what the rest of the game offers.
The entirety of the survival horror genre contradicts this assertion
How about you guys each post ONE game with dogshit gameplay and god-tier music.
Or vice versa if you want to prove otherwise
>>339031058
no other medium can provide this though
>>339033473
Maplestory.
>>339033023
>There have been so many videogames that have sold a lot of copies mainly for its story, regardless of how good or bad it may be.
There have also been games that made bank because idiots are willing to pay money to achieve perks from microtransactions and DLC.
It doesn't make the practice any less scummy or the idiots who eat that garbage like cake any less retarded.
TLoU, LiS, and The order are only popular because nowadays, the focus isn't on designing games with good core gameplay, it's designed around FEELS and appealing to the lowest common denominator since that's where the bulk of your money is going to come from.Uncharted is okay though, not the best but at least the gameplay is solid for the most part.
>>339033541
which is it
>>339033473
If it counts as game, Ace Attorney
But the premise is flawed cause taste is subjective
>>339031058
>Every game needs to be the same shallow trash based on a gimmick mechanic instead of a concise experience based on all the things games offer coming together
>>339032847
>Story in video games is like story in porn, it's expected but not all that necessary.
>Really, all you need as far as story goes is three sentences that explain the who, what, when, where, and why (and sometimes how) with any additional details being relagated to giving the player context and investment into the world.
Which is why so many people complain about Halo 4 and 5's stories? As much as you turbospergs ITT try to come up with an objective way to judge these things and minimize how important stories can be, that just isn't reflected in people's criticisms of games, even on /v/. If 343 didn't shit all over the Halo story, I guarantee you people would still be holding out hope that Halo can make a comeback and get good gameplay again.
>>339032736
M8, it's a 2D game. It's not particularly shallow in contrast with other 2D games.
>>339033023
>Just the fact that I disagree is proof enough that it's up to each person.
You can say whatever you like, but if you can't back it up, does anybody know you're not autistic?
>the market can't be called stubborn because somebody on the internet says game design is objective
Wew.
>>339033473
Silent Hill 2
>>339033579
Horrible gameplay, godly music.
>>339033473
The Hatsune Miku games :^)
>>339033596
>the same shallow trash based on a gimmick mechanic
What a strawman.
>>339033640
Halo SP gameplay is shallow. What else would they have to complain about, not getting a BR for the level?
>>339033414
>The entirety of the survival horror genre contradicts this assertion
Actually, it bolsters my argument because the game was built around the player having few options in how to deal with the threats surrounding it.
Part of what makes good survival horror games great is the fact that you're surrounded by enemies that can kill you relatively quickly, yet you yourself either have limited means of harming them or you have to deal with controls that are just intuitive enough to make dealing with enemies something you do as a last resort.
When "survival horror" gives you the means to deal with threats, the game becomes less about the horror and more about the action set pieces, which isn't necessarily bad but it doesn't make it survival horror.
I mean, compare SH2 to one of the more recent SH games, or RE2 to RE6, or even fucking Dead Space 1 to Dead Space 3.
>>339033587
Well this whole board treat opinions very seriously
>>339033726
>Project Diva
>dogshit gameplay
>>339033793
>Halo SP gameplay is shallow.
The first game sold because of it's single player, the multiplayer was local only until 2. You might not find Halo's gameplay to your liking, but a lot of people did.
I know it's hard to have a nuanced view on things when you're autistic and there's a huge tendency to reduce things to their most basic principles, but games are more than just their individual elements that make them up, it's how they are combined that makes people love or hate them.
>>339034080
>did
Same with Pong.
>>339033880
Oh wow tap the buttons fast, such exciting gameplay. Somebody should make a Miku first or third person shooter game.
>>339033563
I think you are comparing 2 different things, microtransactions are made by greedy devs/publishers, story is (or should be) an "artistic" decision.
When you create a game, you decide what's going to be the focus of it. Wanting to focus on story doesn't automaticaly turn you into an evil developer that wants to scam people. There's no relation between them at all.
The problem here, I believe, is not the focus on story. It's that the few companies that sell their games as story-driven have fucking shit stories in the first place, but simply because they suck as game designers so they have so sell their shit somehow, creating this obvious negative reputation on story-driven games from the people that doesn't care about this cinematic trend.
>>339033528
This game is a great example. Focus on story, and it's an incredibly unique one. Gameplay isn't particularly good, but it's still one of the best RPGs ever made.
>>339033473
Deadly Premonition
Everything about this game is fantastic except gameplay and graphics. It's still a great game.
>>339034237
>Somebody should make a Miku first or third person shooter game.
Sold
>>339033640
People complain about Halo's story because it overextended itself and made itself more convoluted as was necessary.
Nobody is going to complain about the story in a Mario game being "save the princess" but people will endlessly poke fun at your game if you decide to add in more details as were necessary and the details you add either add nothing to the narrative or are just there to generate artificial connections in the player without any regard to how well it fits into what has been established.
I don't need a fucking video game to tell me that I should be sad if someone dies or angry when someone does something dickish, it should come out naturally and not be forced in just to make the game slightly more memorable than it actually is.
If games like Super Metroid can make me feel for a character's death without a single cutscene or line of dialogue or Journey get me invested just in how it presents the world for me to explore then why can't modern games pull off the same feats with the technology available?
>>339034219
And? I'm not saying all games should be judged the same. Pong was loved for its gameplay. Halo was loved for its story and gameplay. Some games are loved only for their story. It's all dependent on what the individual game is trying to be.
>>339034340
The point was that a simple game can be well received. That doesn't make it particularly awesome, especially not for evidence that story is some all-redeeming factor for a game. We have probably heard a story before. We probably haven't played X innovative game yet.
A vocal minority complaining about a game's story isn't evidence against story in video games being like story in porn.
>>339034285
>Nobody is going to complain about the story in a Mario game being "save the princess" but people will endlessly poke fun at your game if you decide to add in more details as were necessary and the details you add either add nothing to the narrative or are just there to generate artificial connections in the player without any regard to how well it fits into what has been established.
Are you making a comparison to Halo? Because Mario was never really liked for its story in the first place. Halo was partially liked for its story. People are mad about what has happened to Halo's story, nobody would be mad if Nintendo ruined whatever story Mario has as long as it has the same good gameplay. My whole point is that not all games set out to be the same thing, you have to judge them based on what they try to be.
>If games like Super Metroid can make me feel for a character's death without a single cutscene or line of dialogue or Journey get me invested just in how it presents the world for me to explore then why can't modern games pull off the same feats with the technology available?
Because either you're looking at the past with rose tinted glasses or you've become jaded or you're playing the wrong games or a million different explanations. I don't know, I'm not you. I don't know your preferences.
>>339033563
>actually prefering the gameplay of Uncharted over TLOU
have you even played it? Sneaking around and playing a third person shooter with limited bullets and without regenerating health is much more interesting.
Music probably packs the most punch when it comes to motivating you as a player to keep playing the game and getting into it. Yet music is almost never brought up in reviews, or gets described in shallow terms at best. Why have so few reflected on its' importance for the overall experience?
>>339034871
Until you realize that most of the levels were based around stacking ladders against walls, strangling dudes from behind, and walking down narrow corridors.
At least in Uncharted, the level design complements the concept of being an adventurer like Indiana Jones. I still remember when I first saw the train level.
>>339034567
>A vocal minority
It's still around a third of people that reviewed it (and probably more if we count people who just didn't buy it because they didn't like what they did to Halo). If you read the metacritic reviews, people are mad about the gameplay AND the story. There's no way to get around this.
>isn't evidence against story in video games being like story in porn.
I have said from the beginning that it is all dependent on what games try to be. Some games are great and they have a story that is about as relevant as the plot in porn. Some games are great and they have great stories. It's pretty obvious that you don't like stories in games, stop trying to pretend that's some universal thing that should apply to all games though. There's a simple solution for you, don't buy games that have stories and gameplay.
>>339035084
>It's still around a third of people that reviewed it (and probably more if we count people who just didn't buy it because they didn't like what they did to Halo). If you read the metacritic reviews, people are mad about the gameplay AND the story. There's no way to get around this.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Internet reviews are, in fact, a vocal minority, if nothing else is to be said.
>It's pretty obvious that you don't like stories in games
Stating that games should have fantastic gameplay is absolutely no evidence on how I judge stories or games with them. You're trying to equalize the discussion by including "story + gameplay" when that's not the point. OK, so an average game can sell well? Neato.
>>339034662
>nobody would be mad if Nintendo ruined whatever story Mario has as long as it has the same good gameplay
That's exactly my point though.
A game with good gameplay will always be inherently better than a game that focuses on some other aspect simply because a weak core will not be able to support any additions that you add on top of it.
>My whole point is that not all games set out to be the same thing, you have to judge them based on what they try to be.
I do judge them on what they try to be, it's just that there's a difference between trying and succeeding.
Remember that one MMO with the redhead as a mascot? People were going on about "it's the WOW killer" only to drop the game after a few months once they realized how shallow it was.
>Because either you're looking at the past with rose tinted glasses or you've become jaded or you're playing the wrong games or a million different explanations. I don't know, I'm not you. I don't know your preferences.
How about instead of talking down to me and acting like your shit taste is superior, you give me examples that prove me wrong?
>>339033473
Hotline miami 2
>>339035381
>A game with good gameplay will always be inherently better than a game that focuses on some other aspect simply because a weak core will not be able to support any additions that you add on top of it.
Only according to your subjective standards. Gone Home was plenty well received by the Steam community despite having almost no gameplay.
>How about instead of talking down to me and acting like your shit taste is superior, you give me examples that prove me wrong?
I'm not talking down to you, these are things literally everybody does. I can't tell you that you're wrong because this is entirely subjective.
>>339034871
This is also bothering me. TLOU's gameplay is pretty good except for the shitty AI, but still better that Uncharted's.
Also, TLOU's story isn't anything particularly special, but still much better than the story from any Uncharted.
>>339035009
It's actually pretty easy to trivialize any game like that to make it sound like shit, and it's even easier to do so with Uncharted.
It's not like I'm an Uncharted hater or anything, but mechanically TLOU has a lot more going on.
And the level design in TLOU complements with the mechanics of survival, exploration and stealth, but hey whatever.
>>339035009
I'm not talking about the 'puzzles' (ladder shit), I'd rather have them in there than not at all for the pacing but the stealth level design was top notch and is probably one of the best in the last generation (since the genre has gone to shit). Also the amount of detail that went into each area is impressive as well (same goes probably for uncharted but you don't notice it when you run through everything). Also laddering/having dialogue > climbing.
>>339035604
>Gone Home was plenty well received by the Steam community despite having almost no gameplay.
Mm..
>>339035257
>Internet reviews are, in fact, a vocal minority, if nothing else is to be said.
I don't know what to say. Talk to almost any Halo fan, almost none of them will say that Halo 4 is their favorite in the series. Most will say it's at the bottom if they had to rank them. It's not just on the internet, the general consensus is that Halo 4 strayed from what made Halo great. Do you need me to give you a peer reviewed academic study to prove this?
>Stating that games should have fantastic gameplay is absolutely no evidence on how I judge stories or games with them.
But it is a statement that there should be at least one aspect of games that you can judge regardless of what they try to be. That's simply false, these things are subjective and a matter of personal preference.
I understand, you're autistic and a game that doesn't focus on gameplay is like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. But a lot of people do have fun putting round pegs through square holes.
>>339035381
>Remember that one MMO with the redhead as a mascot? People were going on about "it's the WOW killer" only to drop the game after a few months once they realized how shallow it was.
Wildstar. I agree with your general ideas except for this. MMOs biggest problem is getting its players the the archaic leveling process. That game's level of success could have nothing to do with its (end game) gameplay.
>>339035889
650,000 is pretty successful for an indie game. Just because other games sold more, doesn't discredit that. The reviews are more positive than negative. The game is not objectively shit because you don't like it, it's just not your cup of tea.
>>339035604
>Gone Home was plenty well received by the Steam community despite having almost no gameplay.
Gone home was well received by feminists and retards who enjoy walking simulators as opposed to actual gameplay.
see >>339035889
It was a novelty that quickly fizzled once people figured out that you could beat the game in like three minutes once you knew what to do.
>I'm not talking down to you, these are things literally everybody does. I can't tell you that you're wrong because this is entirely subjective.
If gone home is the best you can muster then I think we're through here.
A game is the sum of it's parts. I'd say a game needs at least good gameplay, quality music and quality art style/graphics to be considered a good game.
>>339036087
>Gone home was well received by feminists and retards who enjoy walking simulators as opposed to actual gameplay.
So people that you only subjectively disagree with for subjective reasons. Thanks for proving my point.
>>339028452
In terms of nostalgia, yes. Almost all games that are considered masterpieces still years after seem to have good music.
>>339035927
>>339036018
You guys aren't making points. "Muh subjectivity" isn't an argument to anything. It's a non-argument and thus can't be evidenced.
>For an indie game
Games don't get to be suddenly more leniently judged because they're indie.
>The game is not objectively shit because you don't like it, it's just not your cup of tea.
Could the same be said about Skyrim? You appeal to authority/popularity, so should I do the same? What a disgusting argument.
It's very true.
Good music is second to gameplay. A bad soundtrack can detract from an already fun game.
>>339036383
>You guys aren't making points. "Muh subjectivity" isn't an argument to anything.
Objectively prove this.
>>339035707
>It's actually pretty easy to trivialize any game like that to make it sound like shit, and it's even easier to do so with Uncharted.
Yet whenever people talk about TLOU, they never say "oh man, remember how cool the X level was" or "oh man, remember how good the music was" or even "oh man, remember how good the art style was," they always say "man, that story was so good" and nothing else.
As I mentioned before, a game doesn't need story, in fact, you're much better off ignoring it and spending that time and effort on the gameplay, music, or art style since a bad story will sink investment in whatever game you're making and turn it into a big fucking joke once people realize how shallow it is.
>And the level design in TLOU complements with the mechanics of survival, exploration and stealth, but hey whatever.
Because shitty A.I. propping ladders, strangling dudes, and walking down narrow corridors until you reach the next cutscene complements survival so well.
If I wanted to play a game where survival, exploration, and stealth were the most important aspects, I'd rather just boot up minecraft or Terraria again.
>>339036269
You're not even talking about the game anymore.
>>339036431
By the very claims to "subjectivity", you can't appeal to reviews or sales.
>>339036442
>Yet whenever people talk about TLOU, they never say "oh man, remember how cool the X level was" or "oh man, remember how good the music was" or even "oh man, remember how good the art style was," they always say "man, that story was so good" and nothing else.
Except it was mostly well received because of its multiplayer.
>>339036383
>Games don't get to be suddenly more leniently judged because they're indie.
And I never endorsed that. My point was related to the sales, not the reviews. Indie games typically don't sell as much as AAA games because they do not have the same marketing budgets as AAA devs, and they appeal to more niche audiences anyways. My point is that different people have different tastes, and the preferences of some people disproves your point that all games should have good gameplay.
>>339036485
>By the very claims to "subjectivity", you can't appeal to reviews or sales.
You're not getting my point. I'm only pointing this out to show that games that try to be fundamentally different things are well received by their target audiences. My point is NOT to judge the games based off their sales or reviews, is is to use the sales and reviews to show that OTHER PEOPLE like the games.
>>339035748
You can easily cheese the A.I. since the game was programmed by a pack of monkies that have never even heard of the concept of "collision detection."
Like, I'm stealthing around trying to be quiet and avoid fungus zombies and shit, only for my retarded A.I. partner to sprint down the corridor and tackle a zombie like a fucking linebacker, yet for some reason that doesn't alert anyone.
I mean, it's cool that my retarded A.I. didn't fuck me over but it still feels awkward when they can sing soprano and nobody listens yet if you so much as break wind in the wrong direction, you'll get swarmed and have to waste ammo.
Also, I'd rather have fucking climbing than listening to braindead characters try to make me give a shit about my partner when it was obvious that she was either going to die or get kidnapped partway through the story.
When it finally happened, I honestly just wished that you had the option to leave her to die since she'd probably be more useful as an organ donor than as a partner.
>>339036759
Terraria and Minecraft were indie games too, yet they've sold much more than Gone Homo.
Can we reach a conclusion already?
A game main focus should always be the gameplay to be considered good as game.
But that doesn't mean that a game cannot be enjoyed or focus on other things, but by definition, it will be a bad game with amazing parts not related with the actual gaming aspect, hence still enjoyable for other reasons.
>>339029073
Ace Combat Assault Horizon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EDwQkADxMk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6hpReqjTrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PseSGiek5-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ba7H_gg8Y
>>339036843
Jesus fucking Christ stop moving the goalposts. That doesn't negate anything I said. I used the fact that Gone Home was well received by a particular audience to show that different people have different tastes in games. You claimed that games have to have gameplay to be good, I disagree because there is no objective way to argue that. Plenty of people enjoy story based games. Personally, I'm not one of them. But I'm not going to talk down to them like some turbosperg trying to objectively rank aspects of games.
>>339036269
Feminist and walking simulator fags don't play games on merit of them being games, they play them because they make a statement that they agree with.
You don't see feminists praising games like Metroid for having a strong female lead as the protagonist but as soon as you throw in lesbians and cinematics, tumblr will go ape shit and immediately praise your game like it's the second coming of jesus christ himself.
Anyways, to get back on topic, Gone Home was well received by a small audience whose only praise of the game was in its subpar story. For every game that is praised for its story, there's at least three games that are praised for their gameplay and are much more popular and profitable to the wider audience.
I mean, Gone Home is only on PC while games like Cave Story, Terraria, and Minecraft went on to be ported to multiple consoles while being played by millions of players.
Do you think that this is a coincidence?
>>339036759
>And I never endorsed that. My point was related to the sales, not the reviews. Indie games typically don't sell as much as AAA games because they do not have the same marketing budgets as AAA devs
Which is made irrelevant by it being a Twitch and journalism "popular" title.
>My point is that different people have different tastes, and the preferences of some people disproves your point that all games should have good gameplay.
So, Skyrim's sales disproves that all games should have good gameplay? Negative.
>I'm only pointing this out to show that games that try to be fundamentally different things are well received by their target audiences.
By your logic, there is no target audience, because everything is subjective. For the popular /v/ analogy, some might like eating shit. That doesn't make it helpful or appealing, in any manner.
>>339036593
No it wasn't.
It's always "10/10, best story of all time."
That and nobody gives a fuck about multiplayer since most times it's just the same basic modes shoved in to entice the CoDkiddies who want to look ebin online
>>339029073
Really now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2Q8maJTOo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAbIVvAup70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzBxs09FKxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f035kGmpdW4
And let's not forget :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0H5ah1G7A
>>339037139
Stop trying to use the size of an audience to prove their tastes are better.
>>339031147
You think this is good?
>>339037043
>You claimed that games have to have gameplay to be good, I disagree because there is no objective way to argue that.
He's not the same poster, but there is a way to argue that. It's as simple as finding out the most reduced aspects of playing a game that both allow and promote enjoyment.
Concentration, energetic input, and mental quietness. If all 3 of these increase, the game obviously isn't bullshit, and that's appealing. Same is true for challenge.
>>339037139
Gone Home is on consoles aswell. At least check some shit before spewing a load of bollocks.
>>339037043
There are people who like Sonic '06 unironically but it doesn't make the game any less shitty because retards latched onto it. For christ sake, it's a platinum seller on 360.
>>339036442
This is pretty pointless since I won't convince you and you won't convince me (because, you know, there's no objective truth, only opinions) but fuck it let's do it.
First of all, I have seen plenty of discussion about the level design (and things not related to the story) but you can just say it's a lie, so whatever.
Also, you seem to consider discussing the story a bad thing. Games like Planescape, Xeno series, KOTOR2, Legacy of Kain, etc still offer a lot of discussion about its story, setting, characters and dialogues for many different reason like how complex, convoluted or ambiguous it was, the amount of cutscenes, the good parts, the shitty parts, etc.
Why is this a bad thing? What makes it worse than talking about the level design or the gameplay? It's just another aspect of the game that the designers can choose to focus or not. And you refuse to accept that maybe even if you don't like it, it's not an inherently bad thing and it's okay for other to like it. If you don't care about it just ignore it and skip all the dialogues and cutscenes, or you can just not play it at all.
And for your second point, you trvialize the entire game again.
I mean, Uncharted is just run-cover-shoot endlessly until the next cutscene. And what about the shitty retarded puzzles that solve themselves? Or the press X repeatedly to climb everything?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, I'm just showing you how easy and absurd it is to trivialize game mechanics if you want to.
>If I wanted to play a game where survival, exploration, and stealth were the most important aspects, I'd rather just boot up minecraft or Terraria again.
Then again, entirely subjective. Why should Obsidian bother in doing more RPGs when we already have Planescape and Fallout? One game doesn't invalidate another. Specially when they focus on completely different concepts of survival.
Why is it that when someone says story is important in a game /v/ shits on them but when someone says music is important in a game (something that is usually far less connected with the gameplay than the story), you get polite disagreement at worst?
Yes, I get it, you like good music. But that doesn't mean it's at all important to a game. Go listen to the OST on youtube or something. You'll get the exact same thing without having to bother actually playing the game, if it's so important to you.
>>339037371
Fallacy fallacy. He's not just claiming popularity, but also repeated popularity.. trends.
>>339037337
>literally no clue
If so interested, go look up top twitch videos of when it was popular. They're multiplayer.
>>339037139
>Feminist and walking simulator fags don't play games on merit of them being games, they play them because they make a statement that they agree with.
Counterpoint: perhaps you're just not playing them because you disagree with them, while the people you disagree with are capable of appreciating them for their merits?
Gameplay is always first but music can make a huge difference, Revengeance just wouldn't be the same without RULES OF NATURE.
Also I'm hyped as fuck for the blood and wine soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHYSXvaJtiQ
>>339037548
>>339037301
>Which is made irrelevant by it being a Twitch and journalism "popular" title.
Not at all. I've seen zero Gone Home ads on sites that are completely unrelated to gaming, but I've seen tons of Overwatch ads (probably thanks to Google tracking me and serving gamer oriented ads to me). I've seen Uncharted 4 ads in movie theaters before the movie starts, none for Gone Home. I've seen zero Gone Home paid shills on /v/, yet theres tons of paid shills starting threads for Overwatch on /v/ (kidding, I have no proof of that).
>So, Skyrim's sales disproves that all games should have good gameplay? Negative.
HOW ARE YOU THIS DENSE? This whole thread I've been arguing against judging different games in similar ways. Any statement that begins with "All games should" is just fucking wrong. End of story. There is no "all games should".
>By your logic, there is no target audience, because everything is subjective.
No, that means that the target audience is defined by the developer and people join it by mutual agreement.
>>339037594
Welcome to the world where everyone thinks taste and way to enjoy things must be objective, enjoy your stay .
This argument is going full retarded and I believe there is only one right conclusion, prove me wrong.
>>339036846
>>339037729
I don't play walking simulators because I get the same miniscule enjoyment out of those that I have. I would be better off watching a movie than playing a game without decent gameplay mechanics.
>>339037449
>It's as simple as finding out the most reduced aspects of playing a game
NO. NO. NO! Games are no their most reduced aspects. You cannot judge them as such.
>>339037529
Your post is literally just
>my subjective disagreement with other people proves objective standards exist
>>339037762
So how do you define quality without ultimately resorting to "fun"?
Foregoing obvious technical issues where the game just doesn't work as intended, obviously, although then again, there's games like Skate 3 which were all the more fun for them.
>>339037813
>ads on sites that are completely unrelated to gaming, ads in movie theaters before the movie starts..
You can't say those things about Terraria and other gameplay-interesting games, but they sell well. Again, there's a pattern.
>>339037762
Most people on /v/ don't know shit about game design
>>339037614
Trends change all the fucking time. You can't use them to prove that a game is objectively bad. Plenty of artists were hated during their lifetime and became popular after they died.
>>339037813
>>339037946
Also..
>This whole thread I've been arguing against judging different games in similar ways. Any statement that begins with "All games should" is just fucking wrong. End of story.
That's not a reply with an argument. That's not disproving that games should all have nice gameplay.
>that means that the target audience is defined by the developer and people join it by mutual agreement
The same could be said for basic biology and psychology. We're some 99.9% the same. Subjective argument invalid.
Gameplay, challenge and fun are the most important aspects.
>>339037946
>but they sell well.
I said in my post that games sell differently based on which niche they appeal to. No amount of marketing can change that. Teraria and Minecraft are rare examples in mountains of gameplay focused indie games that wold worse than Gone Home. Gone Home appealed to a smaller nice than Minecraft, this does not disprove my point.
Gameplay=Level Design>Music>Story>Graphics
People on /v/ underestimate story. The most memorable and discussed games haven't really been the ones with incredible gameplay. It's been the Undertales and Witchers, games with strong characterization and narrative. Meanwhile, take something that goes along the usual /v/ scale like Downwell, and people seem to generally like it and then forget it. I liked Downwell, but I wouldn't put it on any of my top 5 lists.
Admit it /v/, story is what connects people to games. All the pain around MGSV exists for a reason.
>>339038136
And enjoying a game for a different reason, or the devs intentionally focusing on different aspects is fair and acceptable, but won't make a game "good as a game"
PUHRESENT TAIM!
>>339036846
This
>>339037920
>Games are no their most reduced aspects.
That's not what that post says. It says playing games has reduced aspects.
>>339037927 >>339037449
>>339037993
Not really.
>>339038215
Then list a game on par with Terraria or Minecraft that haven't sold well?
>>339037042
>dadrock
>good
>>339038309
A good game is a good mix of gameplay, challenge and fun.
A good story or good music is not necessary to make a game good. It's just a small bonus.
>>339038052
>That's not disproving that games should all have nice gameplay.
The burden is on you to prove that all games should have good gameplay. You're trying to make an objective point yet we quickly ran into people who disagree with you. If it was objective, that wouldn't be the case. Can you just admit you're trying to argue your opinion and not everyone shares your opinions?
>The same could be said for basic biology
My point was that these things (social categories such as "target audience") are defined by mutual agreement, something that only applies to sentient beings.
>>339038457
Precisely. It's an enjoyable bonus. This is my point
It's like saying music is good because the fucking cover art is good
>>339038358
Enjoyment is subjective. Different strokes for different folks. There's a reason we don't all like the same games.
>>339037762
Wow, nice argument. Anything else that I just said defending my point with specific subjects is totally discredited because according to this image, poeple who say that nothing is objective can't defend their opinions (something that I just did extensively).
I was replying to you because I thought you were just being close-minded and naive mixing what videogames can and should be. But to my surprise you are also fucking stupid that never intended to have any proper debate, so I won't bother feeding your stupidity any further.
>>339038358
>Not really.
No you're just being ignorant of history. Entire companies have gone out of business because trends change.
>Then list a game on par with Terraria or Minecraft that haven't sold well?
How am I supposed to know? Do you expect me to play every game in the Steam catalog to find out? How is this even relevant to what I said? So far ITT NOBODY has disproved that different people have different tastes and different games are received differently by different people. This is all I'm asking you to do, objectively do that.
>>339028452
Whatever the game needs to capitalize on to be good > Whatever the game needs to capitalize on less to be more entertaining/likable > What the game doesn't exactly require but doesn't hurt to have
Generally though
Gameplay > Sound > Music >= Artstyle > Story > Graphics
>>339029537
People were saying Yooka Laylee would be another MN9 but it's only been a few months and the pre-release screenshots look fucking fantastic.
Plus the SG devs already have a pretty nice portfolio.
>>339032218
>it's not secretly moe garbage right?
it's about as far from that as you can get
>>339038553
Then we are in agreement.
Either way I'd still like the game if the music was shit.
>>339038763
>Gameplay > Sound > Music > Artstyle > Story > Graphics
This way.
>>339028452
Who else opened this thread just to see how many people lainposted?
>>339038892
What way
>>339038974
What the hell is a lain?
>but GAMEPLAY is most important!!
>but MUSIC is most important
>but GRAPHICS
Trying to order the shit is pointless, it all depends on what the dev wants to achieve with their game. The execution decides whether it's good or not.
>>339029073
undertale
>>339039023
>not knowing who Lain is
Cmon, its PRESENT DAY
>>339039025
This is the first time I have ever seen anyone on a 4chan board say this ever
I'm genuinely surprised it took this long, you figured this would be more common knowledge by now
>>339039151
PRESENT TIME
HAHAHA
>>339038974
you got me
>>339039025
But anon we're either shitposting or non-ironically autistic. You can't just say what should be plainly obvious.
>>339038512
By the fact that they'd have more fun if the gameplay was "existent". Why wouldn't they just watch a movie and actually take part in something critically acclaimed? Ya know.. by critical processes that have been established.
>My point was that these things (social categories such as "target audience") are defined by mutual agreement, something that only applies to sentient beings.
Not disproving that 99.9% biological similarity results with the exact same drives for what comes from a game, especially in contrast to what else they could be experiencing.
>>339038564
>Enjoyment is subjective.
Nonargument.
>you
>implications
>my points
Which are nonexistent because you're just appealing to popularity.
>Entire companies have gone out of business
Then list them. Inb4 Sega. A company can't thrive on Crazy Taxi and Sonic rehashes.
>How am I supposed to know?
Because you made the suggestion that on par / better games don't sell. There are plenty of games to pick from.
>Prove that different people don't have different tastes
It's irrelevant. People buying games isn't evidence against that games should have X gameplay.
>>339039915
Sorry, the poe's law is too strong in here
>>339029214
I do not doubt this is a thing. Music tends to be way more important to console games, in a way that is tied to the game experience itself, and I've seen very few PC exclusive titles that really treat music in the same way.
>>339039974
>Nonargument.
What. I asked you how you could objectively measure quality without resorting to "fun" and you linked me to a post that defined it as measuring enjoyment, which, if you'll look closely, is a synonym of "fun". This isn't a nonargument. This is THE argument.
>>339039974
>but I need to have fun, otherwise that's bad design!
Do you judge all media like that? Not every game needs to conform to what you decided a game should be.
>Why wouldn't they just watch a movie
You know that interactivity has uses outside of "fun", right?
>>339040297
If you'd re-read the reply, you'd realize that it defines what's enjoyable. That's a little more than saying "it's fun".
>>339040363
>Fun
>Just fun
Nothing said this.
>>339039974
also for
>>339038615
>>339039025
At the end, the game as a whole matters
>>339040494
>it defines what's enjoyable
Incorrectly, because those things are different for each person, which makes them subjective.
If enjoyment was an inherent quality of a game that could be objectively measured then everyone should enjoy any given game equally.
>>339040494
>Nothing said this.
>The burden is on you to prove that all games should have good gameplay.
>By the fact that they'd have more fun if the gameplay was "existent".
>>339040626
>because those things are different for each person
>
Your argument.
>If enjoyment was an inherent quality of a game that could be objectively measured then everyone should enjoy any given game equally.
What if they're awful at it? Checkmate. Maybe if they'd git gud they'd like decent games.
>>339040710
So, what uses does a walking simulator have over watching a critically acclaimed movie? The latter has actual social value.
>>339040807
>What if they're awful at it?
And as a consequence they don't enjoy the game as much, you mean?
Then they're getting less enjoyment out of the game than other people.
>>339040807
>So, what uses does a walking simulator have over watching a critically acclaimed movie?
Can't really say much unless you give a specific example. At the very least, interactivity - controlling their character makes the player feel more involved in the story/events that are unfolding
>You spend more time listening to the OST than actually playing the game
I can't be the only one
>>339040898
Right. And what if that's based on improper diet or exercise? We're finding objective ways they could be having more fun playing games. Then, we realize that repetitive experiences become disregarded, so why would they play walking simulators?
>>339041006
At the same pace, they potentially can't enjoy the game as much because a game without gameplay is worse than a movie, yeah? At least right now. No WSs have the effects of an action movie, and they probably don't have the same standardized storytelling either. Maybe they feel more involved, but they'd get more enjoyment out of a critically acclaimed movie if they'd just go discuss it or whatever. It's about defining fun, and that's as simple as checking out extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation. It's about an objectively quality product, because that's where the social fusions come from, the energy.
>>339041254
Suppose that a given game is only enjoyed by one person. Can we assume, then, that the enjoyment this person gets out of it is the "true" enjoyment contained within the game, and everyone else just isn't good enough to enjoy it at the same level?
Now suppose that, somehow, the game contains even more enjoyment than even the person who most enjoys it was able to get out of it (after all, it is an objective quality inherent to the game, so it does not depend on the player to experience it in order for it to be real). Does that mean the game is secretly better than anyone could possibly realise?
I think lots of people get more enjoyment out of Gone Home than you did. Maybe you should be doing something different to fully appreciate this objectively great game.
>>339041358
>(after all, it is an objective quality inherent to the game, so it does not depend on the player to experience it in order for it to be real
Nothing said this. The statement was that playing games has objective properties that come from 99.9% biological similarity.
>>339041254
>a game without gameplay is worse than a movie
Walking is still gameplay, and not necessarily. You have to give examples
> they'd get more enjoyment out of a critically acclaimed movie
>No WSs have the effects of an action movie
Weird assumptions
> It's about defining fun
What's about defining fun
>potentially
>probably
>maybe
Wow this is pointless. You're just making a bunch of assumptions and trying to generalise an entire genre against an entire medium
>>339041605
Movies have facial expressions, stimulation of mirror neurons, and a lack of an uncanny valley. There's a lot more in a movie than a walking sim.
>What's about defining fun
Furthering a conversation on what's fun, obviously.
>Wow this is pointless. You're just making a bunch of assumptions and trying to generalise an entire genre against an entire medium
Way to ignore points for some words you don't agree with. That's why opinions and thus subjectivity is a shitty argument.
>>339041521
Well, despite our 99,9% biological similarity, in practice, people still manage to enjoy rather different things.
>>339031538
>BoI had terrible gameplay, various bugs and weird item balancing
>But 10/10 OST, especially bosses
>Then Edmund McMoron falls out with Baranowsky the Music Wizard and he splits
>Rebirth happens
>Large number of flash bugs fixed, no slowdown, controls better, hitboxes slightly less fucked etc.
>But OST is now 'fitting' rather than 'beautiful'
>MegaSatan doesn't even have his own theme, it's just the usual boss theme
Edmund really screwed up there, breaking up with his main man.
>>339041761
>Movies have facial expressions
Well maybe graphics will get good enough to have facial expressions soon. I heard Ocarina of Time is looking good
>stimulation of mirror neurons
Nerd shit who cares
>uncanny valley
Not necessarily, the game could have a non-realistic art style. You trying to generalize an entire genre isn't going to work
>There's a lot more in a movie
And you're just ignoring the advantages that interactivity can bring to storytelling
>conversation on what's fun
I'm not the guy you were talking to before here >>339039974 and we haven't been talking about "fun"
>Way to ignore points for some words you don't agree with.
It's valid because you're trying to say that an entire genre is worthless, and you don't even agree with what you're saying because you say 'possibly'.
>>339042401
You're getting into the "art direction vs. realism" debate. You're also not defining what would make WSs worth playing over something much more productive. Objectively, that is.
>you don't even agree with what you're saying because you say 'possibly'
Not having completely discovered / delved a topic isn't disbelieving in its validity.
>>339042615
>You're also not defining what would make WSs worth playing over something much more productive.
I literally did a couple of minutes ago
> interactivity - controlling their character makes the player feel more involved in the story/events that are unfolding
>Not having completely discovered / delved a topic isn't disbelieving in its validity.
>Assertion that walking sims are never worth playing, ever
>while explaining, gives reasons that are "probably" true
Are you even reading this shit?
Imagine the following:
>F.E.A.R. with mediocre unsatisfying guns and no slow mo as well as no shotgun nor leaning
>best OST in any game ever made
Or
>DOOM with no shotgun, only one episode, half as many enemies placed, generally awful or at best mediocre gameplay
This entire argument is retarded, gameplay is most important, then level design, then atmosphere, then story/music.
>>339042837
>while explaining, gives reasons that are "probably" true
If it's more than you're providing, what does that make your posts?
Adjectives don't just define the truth of the statement. Those modifiers are literally just representations of the actual probability. Not all movies are of standards, and I haven't played all WSs to make an encompassing statement, logically. AKA, you're memeing.
>interactivity - controlling their character makes the player feel more involved in the story/events that are unfolding
And I stated what makes movies more involving, to your disregard.
>>339043236
>what makes movies more involving
..For example, pacing. A lot of games have a lot of filler.
Unequivocally, forever and ever, laying this to rest right fucking now.
gameplay > atmosphere > music > graphics > story
Anything else is retarded.
>>339043236
>If it's more than you're providing,
It literally isn't, I've pointed that out twice now
>Adjectives don't just define the truth of the statement
What? For the third time, you are trying to argue that an entire genre is worthless because movies are better in every way, and when you tried to explain yourself you couldn't even give objectively true statements, just assumptions that even you know aren't true 100% of the time
> and I haven't played all WSs to make an encompassing statement
Then why are you trying to argue that they're all worthless? You've just proven that you don't even know what you're talking about. List all the walking sims you've finished.
>AKA
Let me guess, English is your second language
>I stated what makes movies more involving
Nothing you listed makes movies objectively more involving, and interactivity gives the player the chance to influence the outcome of the story, short term and/or long term, something movies will never be able to do.
>>339043316
And now you're just assuming that games just don't have pacing? Why do you even think this garbage is worth posting?
>>339043912
>you are trying to argue that an entire genre is worthless because movies are better in every way
Mm, it says critically acclaimed movies are better than walking sims, especially on the basis that repetitive things seem to lose value.
>you couldn't even give objectively true statements, just assumptions that even you know aren't true 100% of the time
Which I've already explained as based on not playing all the games, etc. But the point of a thread, a game without gameplay, just walking and storytelling, isn't innovated on any other, right? Dev studios aren't coming together to innovate writing itself.
>Then why are you trying to argue that they're all worthless?
See above.
>Let me guess, English is your second language
>nitpicking
>Nothing you listed makes movies objectively more involving
Prove it, then. You can't without something like EEG tests and a bunch of other studies. What should I say, that movies are more popular?
>And now you're just assuming that games just don't have pacing?
How about that a 1.5hr. movie is always going to be better paced than a 10-20hr. walking sim. Checkmate.
>>339044696
point of the.. *
>>339041157
Happens to me all the time.
>>339041157
Yeah, despite siding with gameplayfags, I can totally do that when I really like the OST
>>339031058
this is the only right answere
>>339029073
Final Fantasy 13 looks and sounds amazing, but guess what
>>339028452
>anime poster with a shit opinion
what a surprise
>>339042176
Replace the music ?
Worked for me.
fun > comfiness > atmosphere > artistic direction > lore > gameplay > music > story > graphics
