Do you want the Sonic series to finally be put to rest?
>>338286265
Yes
>>338286265
Do you think the man-hours and money Sega puts into these games would actually be spent on something better?
>>338286914
/thread
>>338286265
they can still make decent games occasionally and he has the best kart racers so he can stay. There's a lot more series pumping out worse shit
>>338287428
But why won't they listen to fans? We want a classic feeling Sonic game and they just fuck it up constantly
Not for good.
Just for a decade or so.
>>338286265
Yeah
How about give Sonic to Nintendo?
>>338288546
>give Sonic to Nintendo
For what? New Sonic The Hedgehog 2 3D: Volleyball Festival?
>>338288079
Oh, they listen to fans, alright. They just listen to either the really out-there ones, like the ones who actually WANTED Sonic to use a gun, or they listen to complaints like "not having enough control over Sonic" and then completely miss the point and make Sonic Lost World.
The Sonic fanbase is so fractured that, to Sonic Team's credit, making a game that appeals to as many fans as possible is very difficult.
However, if they want ideas of what fans really want, they need to be looking at the fan-created games out there. The After the Sequel's, the Freedom Planet's, the Sonic World's and whatever it is that one anon is working on who shows up from time to time.
These are the fans who understand Sonic to its core. Those are the fans that other fans look to when Sonic Team fails. These are the fans that Sonic Team needs to be listening to.
>>338288930
What game is that? My head is spinning just looking at it.
>>338289474
It's some fangame a guy's working on. He apparently got sick of the constant "Guys, how do we fix Sonic?" threads and decided to put his ideas to the test rather than just be the "idea guy." Pretty fun-looking concept by the few webms he's shown off. It looks like Tony Hawk meets Sonic.
>>338289908
Looks like it'd make a great open world platformer collectathon.
>>338289908
I think that's kind of the point. You roll down shit, rocket off of ramps and find secrets, I guess. Sonic looks like he's really weighty and nice, but we really have to wait until it's released to see for ourselves.
These webms are from yesterday, but I wonder if fangame anon will show up today? He seems to be drawn to Sonic shitposting threads like these.
>>338290402
Meant for
>>338290094
>>338290402
>>338290518
That'd be good. A problem with developing Sonic levels is how much effort is put into all the routes, but the benefit from exploring them all is rarely a big one beyond speed-running. By making it a high speed collectathon would validate the point of having a big explorable level.
>implying Sonic hasn't already been put to rest
>>338290941
He hinted at there being all 7 chaos emeralds hidden in the level, so I imagine that's a big part of it. I don't know if they'll be necessary to beat the game, though. I hope not. I like my secrets to be bonuses rather than mandatory items.
My hope is that exploration will be rewarded with small things like rings and 1-ups for going a little bit off the beaten path, but if you go full-on Zelda with your exploring then you'll find emeralds and things.
Absolutely not.
>>338291605
>I like my secrets to be bonuses rather than mandatory items.
Wouldn't be much of a collectathon then, would it?
You called? I'm actually working on the game right now. Polishing up bits of terrain in the second half of the level before beginning work on populating it with Badniks, trees, flowers etc.
Feel free to ask any questions about the project and if you have requests to see certain parts of the level, or aspects of the physics engine, go right ahead. I'll be dropping new screenshots upon request.
>>338291678
Oh, jeez. I remember how dark and dingy everything used to look. Ew.
>le badly drawn "sanic" meme
>>338288930
this is awesome
>>338293109
I thought it had a nice, late afternoon look to it, but the new colour balance is good too, this is the first I've seen of it since about 4 months ago, if not longer.
I have a question, it concerns rolling. In the good 2D games and Adventure 2, rolling served to increase the effects of momentum upon you, as if you were heavier, I'm not sure how to explain it. Example, if you tried to roll just before going into a loop, you'd fail to make it around where you would have if you stayed on foot, but if you started rolling at the apex of the loop you'd come out much faster than if you just ran all the way around. Does that make sense?
If so, is that something you'll be working into the game?
Also, keep it up, you're doing the Lord's work, and I can't wait to get my hands on this.
>>338293590
Thanks, man. We're all working hard to give folks something decent to play on Sonic's 25th just in case Sonic Team drops the ball again.
So, yesterday when I was here a couple guys were talking about how the textures gave them Bubsy 3D flashbacks. I decided to change the tiling on the grass material so it would be larger than the stone material in order to add variety. How's it look?
>>338293870
For me, the grass needs another layer of stripes that sits above the checks, and only to be able to see the stripes when the grass overflows onto the walls. I think the grass checks on the vertical surfaces are the main thing that make it look a little weird to me though.
is adventure dx any good?
i have it on steam but never played it
>>338293824
>rolling served to increase the effects of momentum upon you, as if you were heavier
>you'd fail to make it around where you would have if you stayed on foot
>is that something you'll be working into the game?
I'm happy to report that the mechanics you speak of were some of the FIRST things we implemented into the game engine last October before even thinking about the level itself.
In fact, the Mach State mechanic shown here as well as the webms the other anon posted before:
>>338289908
>>338288930
are entirely dependent on this aspect of the engine.
You see: instead of the Boost mechanic we decided to adapt the Mach State mechanic from Sonic Advances 2 and 3 into our engine. The Hint Ring in the webm itself actually explains how it works.
If you'd like, I could make a webm just for you demonstrating our physics in detail.
>>338294276
Might be novel. I'll give it a shot tonight to see how it looks, okay?
>>338294610
If it's not too much trouble, that would be very interesting.
>>338286265
Let them release the 25th anniversary game first (provided they are making one), then they can lay Sonic to rest for at least a couple years
>>338286265
No, I want a high quality 2D reboot of the series. If Retro could do it for DKC then why can't anyone do it for Sonic?
>>338294841
Alright. I'm rendering up some new ones for ya. Hang tight.
>>338295835
>This is just a tech demo
>You will never play through all of Sonic 1, 2 and 3&K with some changes to the level design to bring the Sonic 1 stages up to scratch an tune them for spindash with these graphics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXycBv3Rlk
>>338296089
Thanks, looking forward to it.
>After years of flinging shit at the walls get a formula people generally like and iterate on it.
>Throw it out the window after a few games to go back to flinging random shit at the walls.
It probably should be put to rest. Even the official twitter is aware that the franchise is a joke.
>>338296236
Okay. So here we go:
First, here's good ol' Mach Mountain from that webm you've all seen before, the one shown here: >>338294610
As you can see, I attempt to hit Mach State by running down the hill. Sonic gets up to a pretty good gate, but sadly does not break the sound barrier. If I would have rolled, then I could have gained enough speed to break through to the other side.
>>338296723
Now, here we are at the base of one of the large loops. I attempt to perform a Spin Dash in order to conquer it, but I lose too much speed and end up falling.
>>338296723
are the loops scripted to prevent you from running out the sides?
>>338297169
That's what I was looking for. I assume on tighter loops you'll be able to spindash around them from the bottom for a free speedboost though?
>>338297184
There will be no spline paths, no Boost Pads and CERTAINLY no scripted events in our game. No.
These loops are 100% physics-based.
>>338297459
Of course! As you can see here, I perform what I like to call a Spin-Cancel. I charge up a Spin Dash and then immediately uncurl and take the loop running. Here, I do conquer the loop, as Sonic has more control over upward slopes while running than he does rolling.
The player is able to roll and uncurl whenever they choose with the press of the B button, allowing them complete control to switch between the two states, both with their strengths and weaknesses.
>>338298092
Now this is Sonic. Keep up the good work.
>>338288930
>>338289908
>>338290402
Is this some sort of fan game? it looks awful.
As long as the games still have good music and big fat bat tats, I'm fine if they keep making them. Even if I don't play them myself, I can listen to them/fap to them.
>>338298092
Okay. So we've got two core elements: Sonic has more control over his turning and has more power over upward slopes while running, but gains more speed when rolling downhill.
Put 'em together and what've you got?
>>338298659
I'm sorry to hear that you think so. Is there any constructive criticism you'd like to offer?
>>338298878
>Is there any constructive criticism you'd like to offer?
I'm just anonymously attacking you over something I don't have any interest in. Don't worry about it
>>338298878
Not him but the purple flowers look awful. Everything seems to clash with the environment. You guys should get an art director, someone who knows what he's doing. If your graphix look amateurish, no one will give you the time of day.
>>338298659
You gotta admit, it's still an early build, these things do take time to make look decent. But it's at least more interesting.
>>338298878
However, I did get a similar feel that everything from this "Green Hill" Zone looks... dull. Not from a gameplay perceptive, the engine is quite nice. It's just how every thing doesn't really look all that "organic"/"natural". I don't know what it is, but I feel something's off with the visuals of the level.
>>338288079
>listening to fans
>EVER
Ask the poor sods in charge of the Zelda series about what happens when you listen to fans. No one knows what they want until they have it and two equally large groups of people could be asking for exactly opposite things. The second you let fan input influence the process by more than 5% is the point where you've shot yourself in the foot.
>>338299061
Oh, cool. Gotcha.
>>338299124
Is it the color of the flowers, or the design of them in general? Those flowers are ripped right from Sonic Generations' Green Hill Zone, so I figured they'd look alright.
>>338299145
If you are able to articulate your feelings a little better, please let me know. All feedback is important.
>>338298878
I'll add to my post here >>338299145
I think it's the sense of scale. When you played the classic games, you'd get something that seemed to "fit" for Sonic's size to the world, even if the levels were actually "big" in size. I get "uncomfortably" simualar flashbacks to Sonic Heroes/06 levels from this, maybe that's just me. For a fan game, these things vary but yours at least looks more interesting and "polished" compared to other 3D Sonic fan games starting off, but if SEGA were to show this off, it would be shitted on for looking bad, as >>338298659 said. But again, that's again, this is still in early development.
>>338298878
Everything looks copypasted in at the sides while Sonic's main path is empty bland checkerboards.
>>338299647
To me it looks like a test level where aesthetics have taken a back seat, which is fine. I'm hoping you'll be taking a good look once the layout of the level is finalised and making sure it looks right.
Also, you could try adding some features from the green hill zones of old to add some variety, like parts of the walls that are indented. The main thing is that the grass stays off the walls and the walls stay off the floor.
Got any site for the game? Where can I find it when it's done?
>>338299695
>>338299787
>>338299985
All of this is great feedback. I'll be copy-pasting this entire thread to my team so we can go over things. Keep the critiques coming.
>>338300006
I'll be sure to show up in another Sonic thread when it's done and released.
>>338298878
yo this looks friggin sick, do you have a website or whatever that we can keep up with?
>>338300434
>lurk /v/ 24/7 for indeterminate amount of time hoping to catch the thread
kill me no
>>338300486
Thanks, brah. I don't maintain a website for it yet, no. If I waste too much time updating a website, that's less time I'm using to actually work on the game, ya know? That's why I post updates here in Sonic threads. It's a great way to get feedback quickly without wasting too much time.
If you want to keep up with the project, stop by Sonic threads from time to time. Either I, or someone else is bound to post it.
>>338300643
Not to worry, I'll make a site when it gets to be around release time.
Yeah, but I'm not a Sonic fan so I don't really have any room to criticize.
I just don't see Sega pulling their heads out of their asses. I am actually relieved Skies of Arcadia never got a sequel if the best Sega can do for it's biggest franchise is just shit out shovelware.
>>338286265
I want it to have 4 years off (no spin offs, either) and for Sonic Team to get their shit together
![cezanne_paul_8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xGO4eqG.jpg "cezanne_paul_8[1].jpg")
>>338300815
Yeah, I;m going to agree with another anon and say that the art direction is really lacking. But I love the way the game "feels" (I know that's a weird thing to say by just watching a video) but it just looks satisfying.
As a painter let me say, your colors are strange. That palette may have worked for other games, but here it just looks sad. The master of blue/grey/orange (pic related) can help you, if you know what you are looking at.
>>338293109
You got a devblog?
>>338290402
I get the impression from this one that Sonic controls like a car even at slow speeds. If you're gonna have this kind of small scale platforming I think he needs to feel more like 3D Mario at those speeds.
>>338301606
A painter, eh! Nice! Thanks for the support!
The level is meant to take place at sunset. Do you have some experience with those sorts of palettes?
>>338302475
I feared as such when we were first getting started, but my beta-testers, some of which were very unfamiliar with Sonic, said that he felt quite nice.
I was surprised, as I was sure that they'd reach the same conclusion that you did, but they enjoyed it.
>>338300434
Are you absolutely certain you want this to be a fangame? Few will take your game seriously if it's a Sonic fan game. It could be really good but so long as it has Sonic attached to it, most people will brush it off as utter garbage. And for what? The Sonic fanbase has shrunken. You're gimping yourself for in several ways for what? The autism of having it be ~Sonic~ be the one who's running around? So SEGA could C&D you at any time? Why? Listen to me when I say it's downright foolish.
If you don't have the common sense to make it its own IP, I doubt you have the massive common sense required to be good game designers.
How much of this project is "We want to make a genuinely good, fresh feeling, polished 3D platformer." vs a tragic "We want to see sonic do stuff." ?
>>338302690
I imagine implementing what I guess is two states of control is probably pretty hard. But I'm pretty ignorant of the technical side of things.
Controlling like a car at high speeds makes sense but Sonic is also an agile living creature and they player should be able to do things like make him run in a little figure of eight without the camera moving.
The other option is to just design around what you have. The platforming in that webm is fine until the player has to turn the camera 90 degrees to make that one jump. It may not seem like it but I think a little thing like that is quite arduous and it all adds up.
>>338302967
We're certain that we want this to be a fangame for one simple reason: So that people arguing on the Internet over "How to fix Sonic" might have have a playable, practical answer to that question. We're not doing this just for our portfolios. We're doing it for science. We decided that we wanted to be more than simply "idea guys." We wanted to put our ideas to the test to see if a 3D Sonic experience of this caliber was actually fun to play.
Besides, this project is just a warm-up for when we do begin to develop our own IP's and when we do, it's certainly not going to be built in the Unreal Development Kit. It'll be in Unity, Unreal 4, or something else.
>>338303408
We felt that having a more area-focused, volume-based camera a-la Super Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and Sonic Adventure would make the player feel as though there is a direction that they are meant to go and a direction that they are not meant to go, therefore discouraging more open exploration. I'm afraid we're a bit too far along in development to focus on completely overhauling the camera system, but we've done our best to ensure that we deliver the most satisfying gameplay as we can.
>>338302481
I'll direct you to "Monet, haystacks". But just from a cursory glance, I would say that the colors are way too intense for sunset. That sounds counterintuitive, but there is a greater variation in not just chroma, but also temperature. I don't know if that makes sense to non-painters?
>>338291605
The webms and stuff look really cool, but the level design for these games might be a pretty big nightmare. How are you supposed to know where to go? Having collectibles is going to be a huge issue if they're important for anything. You'll have players awkwardly walking around slowly trying to find stuff when they want to be going fast. That was a big issue with a lot of modern sonic games.
>>338304409
>>338300434
>>338298092
>>338288930
>>338293109
This is what happens when you have a team full of Ulililia-type autist programmers with a physics fetish but not a single actual designer.
It looks satisfying to play mechanically but everything from the level design to the animations looks... well, like a Sonic fangame. It's like Sanicball.
It also looks like it's probably several notches too sluggish and car-like to control. Sonic Adventure 1/2 showed that you can have really fast gameplay with relatively robust physics (for the time) while still allowing the player total, precise control at all times.
>>338305405
I see what you're saying. Our idea was to combine the surrealist nature of the Genesis Sonic games while using semi-realistic terrain.
Striking a good balance of surrealism and realism has been a pretty big challenge.
>>338305405
It's difficult to describe using screenshots, or webms, but I'll attempt to explain a few methods by which we direct the player:
First, we have the grass itself. It will be embedded early on in the level that grass=good. Paths are carved out using grass.
Second, we use the contour of the terrain to direct the player through slight inclines on either side of the path.
Third, when the player is given a more open space to explore, the space will always have very distinct entrances and exits denoted by fences, grass and the terrain.
Fourth, we use Rings! Simple, yet effective! Rings are useful, they're shiny and they're plentiful. If you see rings, that's obviously somewhere where you've yet to explore.
We have a team of testers with varying degrees of Sonic-related experience and these methods have been working quite well thus-far.
>>338305226
>>338302481
For someone who claims to be a painter you sure are bad at pinpointing the problem.
And the problem is that the shade is the same hue and saturation as the sunlit areas.
Look at this mess >>338304409. It's a solid blob of brown across the entire screen, impossible to tell walls from the floor at a glance.
The entire right hand wall should be far darker and less saturated, maybe even blueish. That would be a first step towards making it not look like shit.
>>338306810
Hoo boy. This is quite the heated discussion. We're gonna be saving this thread from the archive and going over it once it dies.
One thing to note here, though, gentlemen, is that the lighting you're seeing here is using the "Preview" setting of baked lighting. I haven't built using Production Lighting in quite some time, so perhaps that would resolve a few of the saturation problems? I'd have to do a Production Build and find out.
>>338286265
I want videogames to be put to rest
>>338306482
That height map terrain looks disgusting
>>338307805
Ugh. I know. I wish UDK weren't so limited in that regard. We're doing our best to make it behave, but we can only do so much. I know, that sounds like an excuse, but, hey. At least there's a new Sonic engine in the works being made in Unreal 4. That'll be nice to play with when the time comes.
>>338307540
This isn't a lighting issue at all. The problem is that the whole word is a huge indescribable chunk of something with two splat textures carelessly smeared all over it
>>338304409
>So that people arguing on the Internet over "How to fix Sonic" might have have a playable, practical answer to that question.
Most of game history is "How do we fix [x]." You can prove your point without having to chain the game's future down with Sega's copyright.
What I'm seeing here is not a desire to prove people wrong from a design standpoint, but a juvenile crusade to "clear Sonic's good name" from the hoards of critics who can rightfully say that Sonic has never been good. If you want to prove that you can make a high-speed, physics focused 3D platformer then you can without it being Sonic. Sonic. It's like
You know what, nevermind. This game was doomed by foremost being a fan game. There has never been a truly great fan game because no one good enough to make a great game is naive enough to restrict it to an established IP.
>>338308275
Would the addition of foliage, rings, flowers and the like improve that issue at all? A lot of these screenshots are taken from a later part of the level that has yet to receive these elements.
Would you say that the issue is just as bad in the areas with these elements?
>>338308072
Have you heard of 3D modeling? You shouldn't build a whole game environment with just the terrain tool. You aren't even using that well, since all I see is the same two textures everywhere
>>338308915
Put some trees at least. Kinda like those chinese mountains, where trees grows on the sides.
![Sonic-Generations-Screenshots-8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uzn1FQB.jpg "Sonic-Generations-Screenshots-8[1].jpg")
>>338308915
No, that would not help. It would only make it look worse since you would inevitably have a bunch of small copypasted trees and shit that are way too small and detailed compared to the fuckhuge and featureless environments to fit in and would likely just clutter the view.
This picture from Sonic Generations exemplifies all that is wrong with your game visually.
Here we have a strongly lit path clearly showing which way to go, contrasting with the environments in the background in bluer hues. Everything has the same green hill checker textures as your game, but it's broken up and contrasted by ridges, waterfalls and actual interesting topography.
Of course, in Sonic Generations you can't actually go off the path, but you should still study its visual design very carefully, because this is some basic shit and you are failing at it completely.
>>338306810
>>338308275
Hi friend, you seem to not be great at reading comprehension. So I said that the saturation was the problem and that the temperature of things wasn't right. That's why I directed him to monet, because he is a great way to understand both of these things. Also, your negativity is not helping anyone.
>>338302967
I'm convinced this is copy pasta.
Even if you're for real, this whole "C&D" shit needs to fucking stop. People seems to over exaggerate what happens by Ninty, and THAT isn't always truth. SEGA literally just announced ROM games from the fanbase to be endorsed on that Steam application thing a while ago, do you think SEGA would C&D you for making a Sonic game? Especially when that shit was going on by many, many people for God knows how long?
People should make fucking whatever they want to make. No one in their right mind (if so you're a fucking retarded fuckwad) to deny playing a game just because it's x character. People do this, they are retarded if it's mainly by spite. 90% of Sonic fan games, hell, any fan game of official works are usually better than the originals, and people WANTS more of these games, from the companies or not, it doesn't matter. Why should a group of talented people just make something "new" just to avoid "autistic" fan games when no one will care about the fucking hell you've made?
>>338304409
>We're certain that we want this to be a fangame for one simple reason: So that people arguing on the Internet over "How to fix Sonic" might have have a playable, practical answer to that question. We're not doing this just for our portfolios. We're doing it for science. We decided that we wanted to be more than simply "idea guys." We wanted to put our ideas to the test to see if a 3D Sonic experience of this caliber was actually fun to play.
Ok I hate to be an idea guy, but now is really the only context I'll ever have to say this special snowflake opinion and it might help someone.
Keep doing what you're doing, but if it isn't fun, consider what I have to say:
The problem with 3D translations of sonic gameplay is they build it from a concept that's similar to a racing game.
When in fact, sonic has much more in common with pinball. Sonic is practically pinball with platforming elements.
Visualize movement through the level like a pinball table, not going forward very fast like a race track.
>>338310430
Since our level takes place at sunset and not mid-day, I'll be studying the race against Knuckles in Generations that takes place at the proper time and see if I can't get something similar-looking.
>>338311053
I'll be going over these paintings with my team to see what we come up with. Thanks.
>>338313361
You and I have the same interpretation of Sonic, Anon. We thought that a fun way to bring that feeling of "Pinball" to 3D Sonic was to take it in a more Tony Hawk-ish direction. One of my favorite implementations of this idea was with the half-pipe shown here:
>>338288930
>>338286265
I want is Sonic Dead for good.
Sonic is one of segas best selling franchises. Why do you think he keeps going and all those other hits that sold 50k dont? End yourselves, retards
