Why red invaders usually so bad at the pvp and can only hide behind mobs and black crystal out everytime things don't go their way?
>>338254767
Because most hosts have 2-3 phantoms licking their ass and only attacking when you dip below 50% from the phantoms/seed. There is nothing wrong with trying to make things work in one's favour.
>>338255367
invaders are so used to having a disadvantage that you can tell when they're shocked they finally killed a host who didn't really have a chance.
some guy invaded me on the way to Cathedral and i happened to be running right by the spawn point for invaders which is swarming with enemies.
needless to say he killed me. but after he did he just stood there like he couldn't process what just happened.
>>338255367
Yeah, this is why they still play cheap as fuck even when it's 1v1
>>338255621
invaders arent there to play by your rules
Why do hosts use the dried finger and then immediately giants seed when they're invaded solo
>>338255725
Why wouldn't they?
>>338255824
well they obviously didn't dried finger for the 3 phantoms.
>>338254767
Because it's funny, and if you have a gank squad I don't exactly stand much of a chance when I'm on my own.
>>338255659
Neither are the hosts so stop being butthurt about having to 3v1 in a situation when an invader is purposely trying to fuck the host's shit up
>>338255920
Yeah? They did it for the invasions. I do it too. What's wrong with them using a seed?
>>338256061
Because it's unfair, I usually get summoned near knights and get raped in few seconds
invaders are silly.
>>338256137
why do you think it's unfair?
>>338254767
DS is a bad franchise that invites bad players
>>338255986
How are invaders cheap in any way? They have less estus, no knowledge of unlocked shortcuts and stuff, often unembered.
They literally have no way to gain an unfair advantage other than waiting with a bunch of mobs, but seeds exist and barely anyone actually does that.
3v1 is far more cheap than whatever bullshit you are going to say about them using a weapon you don't like.
>>338254767
Red invaders are literally the best players at PvP since the only way to win is to overcome 3 or 4v1 odds. Usually with a giant seed.
You won't last long as a red invader if you can't handle these facts.
>>338255621
I cant begin to count the invasions where the host tried to 1v1 before getting slashed to 20% health and running away for summons
Or running away and popping a seed and healing, or his already summoned phantoms ambushing you
There is no point playing nice if 80% of the time you get punished for it, consider it conditioning
nobody
nobody
hey hey
nobody
hey hey hey hey hey
nobody nobody nobody nobody
nobody cares
>some guy invades me
>i never have phantoms with me
>he must grateful to finally not be getting ganked
>i dont even heal until he does
>instead he chooses to run into mobs
giant's seed and 2 phantoms it is then, i gave you a chance
>two aldrich fags invade
>they hide being arches
>they try to snipe me
>seed
>it's NG++
>they eat shit and die in seconds
best feeling to be frank with you, familia
>>338256440
I wouldnt say that, they are the best at turning mob mentality in their favour, that doesnt necessarily make them good 1v1
>>338256435
My point was different maybe a bit unclear. People maon about invading a world and finding themselfes in a 2v1 or 3v1 encounter. And they should stop complaining about it since it's part of the game that people make runs with friends through coop of covenants.
Besides, the purpose and intention of an invader is to fuck up someone's run. Applying the same mentality, the host should fuck up the invader by all means necessary.
The fact that invaders don't know the shortcuts and other stuff doesn't make much sense, why would you even invade in an area you haven't already discovered by yourself?
>>338256435
They should not have it easy, you want to fuck other people over be sure you can.
>>338256440
>Red invaders are literally the best players at PvP
Nope, aldrich and purple ones are generally better at the pvp
>>338256643
They should also not have it impossible
There is a balance here that from soft hasnt struck
>>338256583
When all but the host is left, if they're no good at 1v1 they'll generally die, since the host still has the advantage (higher tier weapon, more health, more estus, can still summon)
>>338256658
Aldrich are garbage, they can literally only kill players when the numbers are in their favour, they're only slightly better at PvP than gankers.
Purples aren't bad, since they generally have to deal with the same odds as reds, but they usually just attack any phantom and die from my experience with seeing purples.
>>338256636
>The fact that invaders don't know the shortcuts and other stuff doesn't make much sense
He's saying that he doesn't know which shortcuts the host has opened. Such as the one in the swamp that goes between the abyss watchers area and the non-poisonous swamp.
>invade someone
>he has 4 phantoms
>he has popped giants seed
You bet your ass I'd black crystal out. I just want to run around and pretend to be a mini-boss, how hard is that?
>>338256658
Purples are ok
But aldrich is full of shitters.
Can't wait for the blue orb
In first 2 games invaders were surprisingly bad everytime when you invade them
>>338256747
Oh, alright. The way he said it made it sound as if the invader doesn't know the area in general
>>338256734
>but they usually just attack any phantom
More like they have no form of friendly fire so they will hit everyone, even purples.
>>338256750
>obscurring ring
>follow them around
>annoy the fuck out of them with dragonslayer bow
>tossing dungpies and poison knives
>tossing duel charms to remove buffs and other charms when they fight mobs
Be an annoying little cunt.
>>338256734
Yeah but literally every phantom type eventually gets good at 1v1s, thats not unique to reds
They do fight a lot more ganks becuase of invasion priority
>>338256734
>Reds are garbage, they can literally only kill players when the numbers are in their favour, they're only slightly better at PvP than gankers.
Fixed for you, no need to thank me
hosts have twice my estus +20% HP. Considering the meta 27 VIG, armor reduction and estus ring they would have more that 15000EHP. If you dont cheese with buckler and hornet ring for oneshots good fucking luck killing that
>>338256724
Its never impossible, just get more creative. You really reek of someone that got his ass handed to him too many times
>>338256636
I mean, the host knows what shortcuts are already unlocked, and therefore where they can escape too and stuff. If you invade, you have no clue if the host has cleared the are or just got there.
And the purpose of invading is to fight someone outside of a duel setting. Duels ignore the enviroment and take a lot of good parts about Dark Souls combat out of pvp.
I enjoy being invading, and I enjoy being invaded in my normal play just as much if not more. Its not just about fucking someone up. An unfair fight isn't fun on either side.
>>338256859
You telling me the instant sippies, infinite rolls and no cap on summons as well as a seed every 3 invasions is good?
Just because there is a chance doesnt mean its anywhere close to what it shouls be
I can understand 3v1 or 3v2. But seeds are bullshit, not because I'm butthurt but because of the concept of invasions. lolsohard aside, these games pose a challenge that is trivialized when summoning phantoms. This is countered by the invasion system, that keeps it challenging by introducing another adversary. Using seeds at this point is not only unfair to an invader, it removes even more challenge by either letting mobs kill the invader or vice versa, or diverting attention from yourself because mobs also focus on invaders. Seeds should maybe strengthen mobs, so that there is another tradeoff: mobs can attack invaders but you have to deal with stronger mobs.
>>338256846
When are the numbers ever in the reds favour unless they invade after pontif?
>host fight club at dragon barracks with friends
>we just use dried fingers, two of us sit on stairs and spectate while one waits by the bonfire area to fight
>half the invaders sprint past us, over the bridge and wait by the buffed lothric knights for 30 minutes while we fight other invaders
People are such goddamn retards
>>338256857
> every boss has more hp than you
> every npc invader has a shitload of hp
Most people have trouble with these things alone with embers and a full estus.
Are you saying you are worse than a npc?
>dried fingers in the archives
>hide behind prince fog gate everytime someones invades
>Sometimes annoy them with arrows until they black crystal out
This 2 evenings were great, never saw so many hatemails since das1
Redfags need to train their mental strength
>>338257081
Seeds just shouldn't work when you have phantoms.
The gravelord covenant would have been great in this to target co-op players. They either have to abandon their phantoms and fight you in your world, or get their shit kicked in by hard mobs.
>>338257014
>anywhere close to what it shouls be
>shouls be
well, there you have it, invaders think there should be an advantage when it comes to them and only them
what a bunch of pussies holy shit
>>338257014
Just put down a red soapstone sign, you clearly dont know how to deal with this.
Take some advice from >> 338256819
>>338257286
I don't think you entirely understood his post. Go back and read it.
>>338257081
Because all the complaints about people dying to invaders in the past.
I can see the PvP in this game being dropped far sooner than the other games, even Bloodborne at this rate. Not only the bullshit with invaders, but all hits are a 2 hit stunlock with R1, estus heals so fast and you can walk, rolling is practically impossible to punish so they can just do it over and over, stamina recovery speed means rolling/running is easy to abuse
The whole PvP scene is pretty garbage in DaS3
>>338257209
What's next?
Estus shouldn't work if you summoned even 1 phantom?
Weapon arts shouldn't work if you summoned even 1 phantom?
>The gravelord covenant would have been great in this to target co-op players. They either have to abandon their phantoms and fight you in your world, or get their shit kicked in by hard mobs.
Avtually pretty good idea
Too bad this time covenants are barelly better than bloodborne garbage
The host can
>use a giant's seed
>summon 2 phantoms + 1 with dried finger
>have more health and all possible estus
>can just run to the fog gate to rid all invaders
Even with just one phantom they can potentially stunlock you because lolnopoise.
DaS1's multiplayer was working perfectly fine(aside from the GFWL bullshit back then), why did From change it?
>>338257286
I think you might be a bit daft
>>338257367
>but all hits are a 2 hit stunlock with R1
Wow, who would guess
People who cry about invasions being unfair for the invaders never even played des...
PvP in borne is deadbecause matchmaking is garbage, das pvp will be fine
>>338257485
And have a blue invader
And invaders can damage eachother
>>338257209
That might work out.
>>338257367
I guess, but at that point why not just remove invasions entirely? I don't like the system that much either but the pvp aspect is still more interesting to me tham pve. I'm in my first char still, I have 300 hours on the clock and still need to do two bosses before I have beaten NG. Most of my time is pvp or fightclubs. I wish they'd bring back battle of stoicism, but even better would be an entire pvp mode or fighting game with a souls like system.
>>338257556
>it's in DeS so it's fine!
Do you hear yourself? Fucking pathetic.
>>338257367
I don't reallly disagree. I do fight clubs a lot, it's fun, but the only viable builds are either estoc stunlock, giant weapons that deal 90% damage in a two-hit combo like you said or R1 to weapon art that does pretty much the same but safer. Or just caestus parry to instakill with hornet ring, but those shitters are stupidly easy to punish.
I've tried to expirement a bit but I just fall back on the tried and true weapons to be able to win. At least the drang hammers are very fun to use.
>>338257368
Seeds not working when you have phantoms around should make sense. Phantoms are there to help you progress through the level, not gank people. There isn't any actual progress when you use seed and have mobs ignore you.
>>338257749
> Phantoms are there to help you progress through the level, not gank people.
Who said that?
Phantoms are here to have some fun with your pussy
I bet this guy later posted how he alone killed host with 3 phantoms and 2 blue knights
And how he hates everyone who uses legion gesture
>>338257165
Fucking rekt
How the fuck do you parry in this game? I've tried with caestus, claws and buckler, I'm always too early or find myself stunlocked, yet others find it so easy
>>338254767
for several reasons.
1) assload of gankers
2) host is always in better condition
3) dying to a host only feeds him, chipping at his health and running away is the most you can do.
>>338258127
Begin with trying to parry third hit.
Count it, slash slash then parry.
Anyone thunk invaders being able to hurt each other should be situational? If two invaders stand near to each other and get R1 ganked they can't do anything because they'd kill each other too. Or maybe you should be able to "talk" to a fellow invader, giving a friendly fire option or something.
If you fight against r1 spammer=>wait until 3rd strike and press parry
He will still run away and drink estus behind mobs
If you want to learn how to parry 2h=>first silver knight after anor londo bonfire
>>338258289
It's pretty shitty, even when it's 4v2, they can still rush you, what are you gonna do? Spam back? You'll be stunlocked first and if you're not, you may end up killing the other red in the process.
Not much you can do against gankers that rush you and spam R1 if there's no mobs
>>338258320
These and lothric knights are good parry practice. Especially if you learn how to parry their dash attacks, this will make washing pole users completely trivial since they all rely on the range of their dash attacks. Just wait until they start running around in circles probably thinking "omg I'm such a trickster rusemaster" and wait until they run towards you, press L2 and win.
>>338258289
I disagree, some people strike 2 times and wait so parrying after that can be dangerous
People who strike 3 times in the row always retarded r1 spammers so parrying their 4th hit is safe bet
>>338256137
Unfair??? You are invading someone elses world with the intent to fuck them up. There are no rules, do what you can to survive. Quit whining.
>>338258451
I can never parry these cunts, their phantom range on their weapons are massive.
>>338258505
Yeah, sure, so let's make invaders have to fight with bare hands and have no estus, right? Because they're there to fuck up your game, who cares about game mechanics? Except whiners ;)
>>338258289
Red invaders shouldn't be able to hurt red invaders. It should be that red can hurt purple and purple can hurt red too.
>>338258510
Just remember that the phantom range is parryable too. Washing pole isn't a very fast weapon, use a buckler or caestus to parry on reaction.
>>338258495
Parrying is fast enough to recover from that nobody cares anymore if you bait one out
>invade
>blue summoned
>find blue
>he rolls and runs/chugs waiting for host and phantom backup
Jesus Christ, blues are fucking shitters
>>338258667
Why they made reaction parries so easy is beyond me
Now all you have is shitters never attacking with their heavy weapon and just spamming their precious little ceastus
>>338258495
Yeah but still this >>338258436
>>338258614
Would be nice. What about watchdogs or aldritch?
>>338258865
My thoughts:
No phantom should be able to harm phantoms in the same covenant. Purples can hurt reds, reds can hurt aldrich, watchdogs can hurt purples. But no purple on purple, aldrich on aldrich etc..
I think this is already the case with aldrich and watchdogs, but I'm not sure.
>>338258840
Yeah but if you see someone wielding a caestus all you do is run up to them and start charging an R2. They always try to parry since they expect a dash attack but then have to eat a half charged R2 instead and optimally combo'd into an R1. Parry fishers are super easy to deal with.
Personally I tend to just wield a buckler in my second left hand slot in case I meet someone with giant weapons that outrange me severely, but I prefer killing people with regular attacks.
>>338258778
His job is kill you not give you fair duel
You have mobs as your advantage, he doesn't
But I agree. most of blue knights are shitters
>>338257164
>fight club
you brought this on yourselves
>>338258965
How qre purples suppose to be super quirky and original if they cant backstab their helper halfway through
>>338258986
This, people shit on my bloom shield and greataxe build all the time, but I fight normally when the other party is not a shitter. It's come as far as when I see someone use a darksword, I know I'll parry him and kill him. 9 out of 10 times it happens.
>>338259045
Yeah, his job is to kill me, not run around and roll for 5 minutes while hoping someone comes to help him out. Mobs are useless as allies when the host has already cleared them all.
>>338259057
What are you even implicating
>>338258840
>reaction parries are bad now (because they kill me)
how deep this fanbase' retardation is exactly?
>>338259057
Not true, battle of stoicism was great but there hasn't been a good arena in a souls game since. The ones in 2 were shit, bb and ds3 don't have arenas at all. I'd buy a pure pvp souls game.
>>338259089
They can, so long as it's not another purple.
>>338259057
Why? We had plenty of fun and so did the invaders who joined in on the fun. I'm just baffled over the stupidity of the people thinking we are gonna follow them into the enemies when we are clearly doing a fight club.
>blues
>>338259263
If the parries dont involve prediction but simply your opponent having a slow enough weapon to parry after they started swinging, then yes its bad
There is nothing wrong with invading.
Literally nothing.
If you don't like it maybe you should play another game.
Summoning 4 people to finish a fucking singleplayer game however, is pretty wrong.
>>338259252
>>338259268
>>338259337
le fun organized PvP
No really, I clocked in thousands of hours in Dark Souls 1 doing PvP. Organized duels, fightclubs, fucking tournaments. It's goddamn autistic and I'm glad I moved past it and just enjoy the singleplayer with the occasional impromptu multiplayer run-in.
>>338259435
Wanting to fight people 1 on 1 is autistic?
I think you might be somewhere on the scale yourself
>yfw you invade, kill all phantoms and the host runs back to the starting bonfire to summon more
>>338259435
>it's autistic because I'm too good for it!
Sure thing, retard
>>338259554
>there is literally no way to stop him running away
>>338259435
I get what you mean but the gank like pve is less fun for me than 1v1 opponents that actually pose a challenge sometimes. I think souls in general should be a bit like Infinity Blade but with a less shit system. Same reason why I'm very interested in For Honor.
>>338259403
>having this little mental capacity that you can't cope with losing in a video game
bet you post about how you kill 3 phantoms and a host in every DaS thread
mental capactit
>host casts hidden body and uses giant seed
Sneaky bastard
>>338259534
Yes. It wasn't intended and a red soapstone isn't evidence that it is. The autistic and cringey nature of the Abyss Watchers was a comparison to the autistic PvP fags by From Soft.
>>338259591
Nice deflection my man.
>>338259807
You are right friend, let us never discuss videogame mechanics on this videogame imageboard
We are far too cool for that
>>338256859
It's just poorly balanced. Invaders should have full HP, and +2 estus for each phantom in the host's world. Either that, or phantoms shouldn't be able to use any estus when somebody invades the host.
>>338259934
>the devs didnt intend fun to be derrived that way so its wrong
>>338259934
>The autistic and cringey nature of the Abyss Watchers was a comparison to the autistic PvP fags by From Soft
lmao okay, and you accuse others of autism
>invade at Archdragon Peak
>host has one phantom
>uses Seed
>I make sure to pull every snake monster, especially the big ones, and train them back to the bonfire
>laugh as host and phantom get killed
See of Giants is really just a free ticket for mayhem. It hurts the host as much as you.
I do use Seed for jokes like hiding in plain sight. It gives blue phantoms a level playing field and makes things much more interesting.
>>338256440
All invaders are shit. The only people good at pvp are the ones putting down duel signs but you probably never tried one of those because you're a shitty ganker or a shitty invader.
>>338260112
>The only people good at pvp are the ones putting down duel signs
>>338260183
Are you trying to imply that's wrong? You've obviously never been to a fight club.
>>338260313
Different kind of pvp, invasions arent often about paying attention to one other persons spacing and habits
>>338260313
Holy shit, you're being serious? Whoa
>>338260313
>get summoned to fight club
>Estoc
>Washing Pole
>Washing Pole
>BK Halberd stagger-combo
>Washing Pole
>parry fishing followed by BKGA
>BK Halberd stagger-combo
>Estoc
>Washing Pole
>>338256476
>invade guy
>he keeps runnîg away in archives
>blue is summoned but just stands next to us
>finally sunphantom is summoned, run back
>sunguy recklessly pursue me, defeat him before he can react
>go back toward host
>this time blue wants to play
>start hitting him
>fight fair until he gets to about 20% healh, rolls back, chugs and run back to me
>at this point the same sunguy has rejoined the game and they're all three on my ass
>get killed
And that was all right next to the initial bonfire. I like archives but the mobs are too weak to help ou as an invader
>>338260420
Yes Mike Tyson I was being serious.
>>338260313
Fight club:
>1v1
>no healing
>like 4 different builds, ever
Invading:
>2/3/4v1
>host has more health and estus
>have to manage undead charms, estus, throwing knives and resins
>have to occasionally deal with mobs while being ganked
But yeah, fight clubs are where all the skilled players are m8
>>338260572
Spoken like someone who's never even played the game let alone actually fought in a pvp match.
>>338260431
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP USING THINGS IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Git gud faggot
>>338260572
People in gank squads are considerably worse due to mob mentality, and an invader would be dumb to engage a 4 man gank alone
>>338260669
That's some rebuttal you have there. Clearly shows you're right and I'm wrong.
>>338260025
It's no doubt that since the fight goes from a gank, to an even fight, to a one vs one that it's supposed to be a callback to the volatile nature of PvP. Not to mention the Legion Etiquette that might as well be *tips fedora*. Also not to mention the boss soul sword that makes you slide over the place like a character in a mecha anime.
>>338260313
Fight clubs are shit for testing someone's ability to fight. There's no pressure of fighting in a small room, or on uneven ground, or falling off a ledge, or taking advantage of the environment, or getting ambushed, or chasing/being chased into bait or pressuring someone out of a good position into a bad one. Your ability to utilize abilities to the actual extent they are meant to be used, like different types of attacks being more ideal based on your surrounding such as thrusting attacks over large slashes next to a wall, or bows actually having any relevance outside of quote unquote quickscoping, or utilizing area of effect spells in ideal locations, so much of the game is taken away and stripped down. The builds are extremely limited because a lot of the disadvantages presented from different things are invalidated by fighting in safe, flat, open spaces.
>>338260529
You still haven't presented an argument, so of course nobody is going to take you seriously. Except for me because autism.
>>338260738
I don't think he was complaining about the fact they're used, but more that it's all people ever use.
Though this is typical MLG fightclub player's attitude in a nut shell, thanks for being an example.
>>338260738
I don't care about fairness, but it's just extremely boring. It's not a risk-reward situation.
Eventually people will focus on counter-builds so much that they'll go the way of Dark Swords (barely see those anymore), but it's just to go through these waves of tryhard meta shit where everyone uses one of four builds to abuse the shit out of crappy move-sets.
>>338260787
This is well written, also the reason I can't stand fight clubs. It's the same thing over and over.
>>338260857
So it's bad to have the mentality that you can use everything in the game to PvP with? Are you implying it's a better mentality to gimp yourself? What the fuck are you on? I use whatever I think is best in the game for PvP because that way you're only limited by your own knowledge and individual skill. Also the current build-diversity doesn't mean shit dumbass. The game JUST came out. PvP'ers are trying shit out and seeing what works and what doesn't. When more patches and DLC get released the meta will probably shift dramatically (I hope so at least.). Only noobs and babies complain about people winning with gear everybody can get. The only build anybody should probably be butthurt about right now is the Flame Surge bm build.
The game is balanced around a single player in PvE. Everything else is just attached to that basic design.
That's why summoning phantoms breaks the game and pushes it beyond easy mode (enemies can only every deal with one target at a time) and why PvP is such a broken mess (weapons and move-sets are balanced around fighting large, scripted enemies with a lot of health).
>>338261096
It's bad to have this mentality:
>"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP USING THINGS IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Git gud faggot"
>>338261156
How is it bad? Can you even explain your "logic" because green texting on 4chan isn't going to do the explaining for you. There's nothing wrong with laughing at people for getting upset when they lose in a video game because you're using a build they don't like :'(
>>338261097
t. Couch Audience
>>338259958
>discussing
What you did is called "complaining about people being better than me" not "discussing"
>>338260917
Then I guess DkS3 PvP isn't for you. Good bye.
Why do people pretend like the host has a ton of shit at stake? Bonfires every 5ft and embers around every corner.
>I hate it when I see the same weapons/build all the time.
>'You just suck'
What? How does that make any sense?
What is wrong with wanting to play against varied weapons/builds to keep it interesting and new?
>>338261448
The problem is you can't blame the players for using the most efficient options. You have to be pissed at From Soft's shit PvP balance.
>>338259431
Quit being bad
>>338261227
Because you're sperging like an autistic 12 year old? Because you're spouting the "git gud" meme? Because you're accompanying it with le funny reaction face? Because you completely misunderstood the point he was making?
>>338260917
Gee, I wonder why it's bad?
You can defend it more if you like, but you're not "laughing at people for getting upset" as you think, you're making a fool of yourself by using hyperbolic shitposting
>>338261546
see
>>338261097
The game was never "meant" to be viable for PvP.
>>338261638
I know. That's why I said what I said. The PvP may never be completely fixed or patched up or whatever and I'm fine with that. I enjoy the current meta and that's all that matters to me!
>>338261546
>you can't blame platers for using cheesy weapons.
Well I can, but I also agree pvp balance needs to be fixd
>>338254767
Because invasions are fucked. Reds almost always get groups of 3 in invasions, unfair doesn't begin to describe it.
Thats why most just default to hiding behind mobs now etc.
At the same time players get fucked over because a phantom can simply just run from one mob group to the next, heal up, then harass you again with the next mob group. Some areas are completely fucked in that regard, Irithyll for example. Have fun with 2 of those sword-fighters, the fire witches that blast you through half the map PLUS a red phantom. Healing is simply too fast in this game. Thats one of the few things DaSII did better, and they completely dropped it.
Its generally not an enjoyable experience for both sides, duels are the only way to have fun in PvP.
I've been on both ends so I talk from experience
>>338261795
>groups of 3 in invasions.
In my invasions I usually get 1v1s or fight clubs...
>>338255367
>There is nothing wrong with trying to make things work in one's favour
>but starts off with crying about hosts with 2-3 phantoms
Which is it, fuccboi? Is it okay to tip the tables in your favor or is it only okay to do it when you're the guy doing it?
>>338260108
>I make sure to pull every snake monster, especially the big ones, and train them back to the bonfire
Can't believe that shit like this happen, because host need to attack them for them to aggro
>>338261919
So much this
>put sign down at gundyr, aldrich and dancer
>nobody summoning
I just want to kill some bosses, why is it already so dead?
Who here /forcedtoweargaycrown/? It hurts to live fellow shamebros. I was resisting it for so long, wearing my dragon head, but I cant longer resis that fucking 10% sorcery damage boost, additional defense and 17 damage on my weapon.
>>338257632
I cosplay as a drakeblood knight, that greatsword is absolute trash and I still fuck people up using the meta weapons. Im currently using the BKUGS and its really fun to let people hit me then 2 shot them. Just out play people it's way more fun than using the meta weapons. Also for parry spammers i just never attack and use my avelyn with exploding bolts and splintering since they are huge cunts and just trying to cheese.
>>338262504
>help at gundyr
>host dies to a single hit with about 650 hp
Who the fuck has health this shit?
>>338262504
Dancer and gundyr are the hot spot for summoning even on the ng+
But now servers don't work properly if you didn't notice
>>338254767
Because they got used to having to much advantage, so now they upset when people don't play by THEIR rules
>>338261919
I'm normally a darkmoon who gets summoned into a world with the host and me vs 2 or 3 invaders. But when I do invade its almost always 1v1s or 1v2s with an occasional gank squad who I just leave if its not pontiff and if it is I just bait it out til I get more invaders. But normally its honor duel 1v1s and fight clubs. The only thing I've really noticed is never to trust purples with large weapons and everyone has down syndrome so your other red will back stab you and kill you then insta die to the host and his summon.
>>338264262
>to having to much advantage
Like?
>>338258007
That pretty much sums up dark souls pvp.
>>338264583
As much humanity as you want to use to heal with, mobs help you out, same stats as host, slower healing in general
>>338265862
You -only- have humanity to heal with and it's not something you can purchase, hosts had estus as well as humanity. Mobs only help you if the host hasn't cleared them. Same stats as host is hardly an advantage to the invader, same goes for slower healing. Hosts have always had the ability to summon phantoms, too.
The only time invaders ever had the advantage were if they were twinks. You've obviously never been much for invading and justify your deaths by invaders as "well they had the advantage, so that's why I lost"
>>338266153
I'm not that guy though. I guess the difference is that phantoms are just more plentiful right now with it being a relatively new game.
I enjoy invading in dark souls 3 a lot even if th eodds are against me (1v3)
The only thing I strongly dislike is the giant's seed. That's just too much
>>338266460
The only place on the top of my head where giant's seed will fuck you over as an invader is the area with the silver knight archers. Otherwise just skip them or lure them towards the host like everyone else says
>>338266153
>Mobs only help you if the host hasn't cleared them.
So 90% of time?
>>338262067
Having some advantage you could overcome, like in first das is normal
Having too much advantage like in das 3, is just casual baby handholding
>>338267329
If there are mobs, hosts usually just sit by the bonfire. So no, not 90%.
>>338267461
Doesn't matter, shitters will defend it because they hate being invaded.
>invade
>gank squad waiting at the bonfire
>they all immediately turn to me
>fuck that, immediately start shooting arrows
>they chase me, so I run to enemies
>without fail, every time, they stop dead in their tracks outside the enemy aggro range and taunt.
>think I'm actually going to walk into their meat grinder for some reason
>have to sit and wait for 2-5 minutes before host and phantoms get bored and say fuck it
>sometimes the host just disconnects if I don't come at them
This was probably 80% of my invasions during launch week.
Now every other invasion is a fucking fight club no matter where I am. It's especially annoying in Crucifixion Woods since that's an covenant area. Can't these faggots keep this in Irithyll like before?
>>338267613
You still could run to the mobs everytime fight didn't go your way, and not surprisingly most of invaders did exactly that
>>338267730
To do what? Get some breathing room? Hosts would have to be idiots to follow you. Majority of my invasions, the host only engages mobs if they have 2 phantoms with them, otherwise they just remain near a bonfire the entire time.
>>338254767
Why too many noobs trying to invade, not understanding that invaders are supposed to be elite players in DS3.
>DS3 player tier-list:
>casul fagit: relies on summons to progress through levels and beat bosses.
>regular: can beat the game on his own, may enjoy 1v1 duels.
>l33t: invaders who can consistently win 1v2 and 1v3. if the host used dried fingers, a 2v4 with experienced invaders is potentially one of the best PvP experiences.
I personally like using dried fingers+way of blue and get into 2v2 with myself, a blue bro, and two invaders.
>invaders crying because they can't kill host all the time
>not just invading to spice up a host's game as a tough enemy
You faggots don't even know what fun is anymore
>>338267959
>it's fun to run into a group of 4 gankers that just sit around using dried finger so they can spam invaders to death
>>338268054
>not just wasting their time
they aren't the problem anon
it's (you)
>>338268054
There's plenty of weapons and builds that could cause them a load of grief. Don't be salty just because you can't always play the way you want and get consistent results.
You have nothing to lose when invading.
>>338268194
>frogposter
How would anything you do waste their time? They're literally already just sitting around waiting, the worst you could do is take up an invader slot.
>>338267959
Because that's not the goal. Besides, you really think all the shitters in this game relish the challenge of invaders at all?
Nigga, you don't get a big banner of success when you die that says "GAME SPICED"
>>338268295
Then why not just play around with them? What's stopping you from finding your own way to enjoy the situation through guerrilla tactics?
Are you so blinded by your lust for kills that you can't just enjoy the game?
>>338268275
>There's plenty of weapons and builds that could cause them a load of grief.
Like?
>>338267864
To heal yourself?
To shoot them from afar?
No wonder that people who complain about host advantage aren't creative at all
>>338254767
He didnt kill you while you were sitting, thats a sign of a good player to me.
>>338268454
What tactics can you employ against a group of 4 players sitting around a bonfire, no doubt with a seed of giants? Dragonslayer bow with obscurring ring? As soon as you get off a shot you'd be rushed and spammed to death.
>>338268295
or you can be part of the archery master race
>obscuring ring
>snipe enemies
>watch them panick
>>338268549
Here's the easiest and most useful tactic against a group of 4 gankers: wait for a second invader.
>>338268461
>>338268549
If the hosts are being faggots and you're too much of a faggot to even attempt to fight the odds and kill the host, just crystal out and bitch on /v/ instead of actually playing the game.
>>338254767
Creators of the game stated that invaders should use the enviroment in their favor against other players, more so in DS3 which pairs invaders with hosts that already summoned phantoms.
>>338262067
Hosts already have it in their favour though. As an invader you get half as many estus sips and you've got unembered health while the host does not have those restrictions, as they need to be embered to invade them in the first place. In addition to this, the fact that most hosts are also complete cowards who require 2-3 more people simply to beat one measly gimped invader ruins the experience.
>>338268784
>how to get softbanned 101
>>338268487
>To heal yourself?
You can heal as well you know
>To shoot them from afar?
It's not like you can't do that too or you know maybe just hide you idiot
>>338268784
>yeah I can't think of anything, you're just too much of a faggot for not attempting to win a 4v1, I'll go with that
>>338268874
>healing yourself in the middle of fight
Oh wow, just git gud
>>338268794
Great, let's use the envi- oh, host has used seed of a giant, nvm.
>>338268817
Because it's a PvE game. Your priorities as invader are
1) Kill host
2) Frustrate and waste host's supplies and crystal out
3) Kill host's phantoms because fuck them
>>338268852
>[citation needed]
>>338254767
>spawn into the middle of a 4v1 cosplaying a ninja with ninja rings
>host sitting behind all his buddies ganging up on one poor Finger
>wait
>and wait
>host runs back behind his line to heal
>unzip katana on him
>point down gesture
It's nice having that one moment where everything works out perfectly.
>>338268817
I'm not defending hosts who need to hide behind 3 other phantoms but remember the goal of the host is to get past an area and beat the boss. While he's embered he may have more HP and estus than an invader but he can invaded multiple times while going through an area. Yes the host can go back to the bonfire and refill on estus but that means he risks getting invaded again while respawning all the mobs again
>>338269083
>2) Frustrate and waste host's supplies and crystal out
And then get punished by From for using black crystal too much. At least option 3 is viable for grapes.
>>338256636
>a host with 2 or 3 phantoms is having fun with friends
I'm not complaining that it's unfair when I invade, I'm complaining because having more than one phantom completely ruins the game.
One is already easy mode, but 2 or more is "the game plays itself" mode.
>durr using the black crystal the game starts you with will get you softbannedd!!!
Are you people actually that stupid?
Unless you're doing some blatantly exploity shit you wouldn't get softbanned. I use it all day every day and still have yet to need to use my way of white circlet
>>338269186
Can also use seed of a giant tree, summon phantoms over and over if they die (estus refills every time they die too...)
>>338269307
Some people have fun in different ways. If they don't want to play the game the way you think is best then that's their decision
Reminder that even solo invasions are unfair because the host will always have a health advantage. Honestly I wouldn't even mind the gank squads if I could just have my full health bar.
>>338269083
>im incapable of googling the complaints about bsc on google please spoonfeed me
Turns out youre not the das3 expert you pretend to be
>>338269182
>invade a 3 man squad
>think I'm already dead but let's just give it a try
>host and phantoms are spamming gestures
>manage to kill both phantoms after a tedious fight
>though /v/ was exaggerating about hosts being enormous pussies
>he literally runs to the bonfire to summon more people
>charge attack with my dragonslayer spear right in his back while he runs
>he gets up
>panicked attacking me
>parry the first blow he tries to land
>that amazing riposte animation where you fall on top of him
>dead
I mean, I failed horribly a hundred times, but that was just so fucking perfect. I have never won against more than two people, and rarely against two. It felt so fucking great and justified, holy shit.
>>338259435
We're proud of you.
>>338269451
>host's estus refills if his phantom buddies die
for real
>>338269565
I just wish I was good enough to kill them, or at least the host.
But I'm not. I can't win 1v3 or 1v4.
>>338255367
>invade someone to fuck up their progress
>HEY, MAN! I CAN'T FUCK UP YOUR PROGRESS BECAUSE YOU GOT 2-3 PEOPLE HELPING YOU! HOW IS THIS FAIR???
What if the host donated a share of his estus to every phantom he summoned
>>338269716
Pretty sure they do, as a white, red or purple whenever another phantom dies (regardless of colour) you get some more estus, still limited to your amount you had when invading though (no never more than 7)
>>338269728
From experience I find the most anti gank weapons are shit with hyper armor and sweep attacks
Just cant be too large otherwise even the shitters realize they have to dodge your swings and dodge
>>338269809
I was thinking about that earlier when playing with my friends. Make summoning require your estus to be shared to fill their flasks.
No Estus = No Summons
Maybe make purples require less estus to summon?
>>338262864
Yeah gaycrown is fucking annoying
>>338269647
Oh fuck that parry animation lets you rejoice on how bad you fucked the other player over
It lasts so damn long and you know the host has to watch this shit too lol good stuff man.
I was summoned into a similar situation except I couldn't catch the host when he started summoning more phantoms to gank me with. I must have gone through 4 or 5 people since he initially only had one other person. I lost and I was extremely salty.
>>338270051
That would actually give hosts a reason to summon purples
They would be like the bootleg version of phantoms with less cost but more risk
>>338269728
The only way to really get the host while being ganked is by criticals. Use weapons that have guardbreaking arts, use the dragon torso stone with knightslayer/horse ring, parry etc..
Usually a host is overconfident with phantoms, if you can split them a little and manage to get the host alone, you can attempt to get a critical.
>>338270205
I'd love to see that
>host and 2 purples
>attempt to R1 spam someone
>end up hitting eachother and killing themselves
>>338260786
Deepest lore
>>338269809
And when the phantom dies, he gets the remaining estus of that phantom back. Always reward all "opposing" phantoms with 1 estus when the "enemy" dies.
>Phantoms and host all get 1 estus for each dead Red or Purple (even when summoned through white)
>Reds and Purples gain estus from any slain phantom (reds can hurt eachother, right?).
>Host gets remaining estus from fallen allies
>>338263051
People who got gud. You should try it sometime.
>"I want to fuck with someone's game because I'm 12 and so pro at this game holy fuck get rekt XD"
>"someone who is just playing the game with his friends and has all estus and extra life so unfair better use the mobs to fight him im so smart"
>"Wtf he used a seed what a fucking pussy for not wanting to deal with some faggot coming in and just attacking alongside the mobs in his game better get out and message him what a pussy he is"
Co-op is also a big part of the game and you can literally farm all covenant items from mobs. If you want PVP use the red soapstone or just go outside pontiff, you have no reason to invade in this game unless you're and edgy teenager or a dick and just want to be able to say "lel trolled".
>>338262864
It's like that image where there is a cool looking sword and a gay one that does 1 extra damage.
Congrats on choosing the gay one.
>>338270463
>got gud
>killed in a single hit
>>338270205
>>338270051
Would be pretty good.
They should really alter the way summons work (they won't)
Hosts have no reason to summon "white" purples, because of the threat. If normal summons would be costly, and purple summons would be cheap, then it would be fucking glorious.
Maybe give sunbros a small boost and make the cost equal to a regular summon.
>>338270574
>Getting hit
>>338270525
>all this hyperbole
Invading has been an integral part of these games since Demon's Souls. This "hurr durr i hate invaduhs!!" mindset is the reason we have such handholding with hosts in DaS3.
>there should be no disadvantages to summoning 3 people to kill stuff for me
>>338270574
Well yeah, it means you have to actually beat bosses by not getting hit.
Ofcourse you're not gonna do it first try, but it usually means you got gud.
>>338254767
>invade as a madman
>exclusively hunt phantoms across the rainbow
More fun than I've ever had in dark souls PVP.
Sometimes its like those old cartoons too -- you're opening a door and you see a few people playing. Then you open another door and it's people dancing in a circle doing the caestus weapon art in sync. Then you open another door and it's just someone dressed in Dusk cosplay kneeling in front of someone in Smough armor.
>>338270463
>got gud
>summoning because he didn't git gud
>>338270697
He summoned me
He got hit
He died in a single hit
How did he "got gud" again?
>>338255367
>There is nothing wrong with trying to make things work in one's favour.
Then why are you bitching about phantoms, bitch?
>>338270792
Then you find the revolving door with uchigatana and fallen knight.
>>338270952
Because even without phantoms the odds are already stacked in the host's favour.
>>338270889
Because he obviously made it to champ gundyr with that health.
I did the Nameless King bossfight without getting hit once. It was because a single hit would kill me.
Sure, I died like 20 times, but I can do it again pretty reliably.
Putting points in health is a safety net. You don't trust your skills enough, so you need a plan B for when shit goes wrong.
>>338270651
You're misunderstanding his point. If you want to invade, that's fine, but don't expect to be coddled just because you wanted to be a dick. Invasions have been a part of the game since Demon's Souils but even Demon's Souls still let you summon for help. Niggas complaining about unfair invading against 3v1 are the same type of faggots who say it's okay to estus when you're invading because "LOL WELCOME TO DARK SOULS! NO RULES!"
If you want a fair match, duel people.
>Yeah well red invaders have to deal with like 3 phantoms and gankers
Because you invade worlds you idiots. The majority of the time the invaded are playing co-op with friends and you just pop into their world. They aren't actively trying to gank you. You are just invading people who are just trying to play with friends.
>>338271067
Whoa, he got to gundyr and has no problem with summoning multiple players? Yeah bro, he must've got gud, no other way to explain how he could make it there with shitty health.
>>338270889
>lel he got hit once what a scrub
>meanwhile, you're at 0 estus because you tanked 15 hits already
Wew lad
>>338270525
>invaders are all edgy teens and dicks
>invasions should only happen in soapstones
What the fuck, invasions is a major feature in all of the games. It's a consequence that you, the host, face when you choose to play online. Co-op is also a part of the game yeah, but it also makes the game incredibly easier so they need something to stop you in your tracks.
It's just unfortunate how it no longer applies in Das3 since most of the time the host and party usually wins against invaders.
>Friend summons me to help me farm vertebrae shackles.
>Lets me kill red phantoms for him.
>Another mad phantom invades.
>Realizes its easier to help us murder fools than to try and kill the host.
>Mfw made a new friend.
>>338271142
At least he isn't putting points in health like your little bitch ass is doing.
You're assuming he summoned for every boss fight. You don't know this, this could've been his first summon because he got fed up, or he may have been summoning for every boss.
What we DO know is that he didn't put points in health, but you did. Who's the scrub now faggot?
>>338271092
It might be a safety net in pve but in pvp trades are paevalent and you are never going to survive those
>>338271016
Again, I have favorable odds as a host, why not stack even more favorable odds on top?
>>338271264
Purples make me feel so uneasy when I'm around them, even if they're invading with me. There's just no telling what they'll do. I love it
>>338271092
Invaders are completely fine with being at a disadvantage, they always have been. The point is the advantages the hosts have in DaS3 are ridiculous. If you think this is expecting to be "coddled" you're an idiot, if anything it's those being invaded that are being coddled in this game.
It's fine that players can summon, but in previous games it was a max of two phantoms. Now it's a max of 4 phantoms as well as blue helpers. There's also seed of a giant, half your estus, lower health for invaders, almost unpunishable rolling so the host can re-summon to his heart's content.
>>338271264
Holy shit
What's stopping me from summoning two purples and feeding them phantoms all day long, besides them not getting with the program
>>338271142
>>338270889
>>338270574
>>338263051
>shitting on people who don't put points in vigor
>calling them scrubs because they die in one hit
The irony is tangible my friend
>>338271126
Without invasions playing with phantoms would require zero effort whatsoever
>>338271092
And you're misunderstanding him. Nobody is asking for "fair". We're asking for "regularly surmountable through intelligent play".
>>338271126
>They aren't actively trying to gank you.
As someone who spent the last two weeks as a blue, this is a blatant fucking lie
>someone comes into my game with the intention of fucking my shit up
>cries on the internet when I fuck back
Fucking brilliant, nothing more delicious than invader tears, keep it coming.
>>338271452
Nothing, he invaded us about three times and each time just kind of fucked around until someone was unlucky enough to invade. I think he got his bloodlust because of us.I know you're here, FLAME_ON.
>>338271479
If you don't think someone's a scrub for summoning at gundyr because they can't kill him and then dying still because they can't play the game with the vig they've stopped at then you're an idiot, m8.
Gimme a fun build for low/mid level PvP, something to make invasions interesting.
I'm talking level 30-50 range.
>Invade someone who just started playing DS3 for the first time and it's clearly their first souls game
>I have clocked over 400 hours in each souls game
>I try to gank the shit out of this noob
>Wait, they summoned a phantom? 2v1? SO FUCKING UNFAIR!!!!! D:
>WAAAH I DON'T GET MY WAY!!!
>>338271634
>nothing more delicious
Invading a 4v1 and managing to kill the host and then receiving "fan mail" is better, you should try it some time if you're capable.
>>338271539
>We're asking for "regularly surmountable through intelligent play".
You could try just focusing on killing the host, no?
>>338271917
Wew lad, that's a mighty fine strawman you've built there
GRAPES 4 LIFE
>>338271323
Why not completely remove invasions then? At this point there's so much the host can do to make it easy that it's almost not worth the effort of invading.
>>338271539
Hosts are such shitters and phantoms are usually very easy to distract.
If you think PVP is impossible you really need to re-evaluate how good you think you are at this game.
