What's the best Total war game and why is it Shogun 2?
Also can you recommend me games set in medieval Japan?
>why is it Shogun 2
Cause it was the last time CA really had their shit together. Attila is pretty good though, just a victim of typical DLC bullshit
>Best total war game
>Not Medieval 2 or Rome
Nigga what.
>completely braindead AI
>best TW
Fall of the Samurai was way better although vanilla Shogun 2 was top tier but suffers from unit monotony and linear siege battles
>>337899796
That applies to every TW game
Medieval 2 still da best. FotS was fucking great though. Nothing beats rushing artillery and fucking some Shogun dogs up.
Sieges were by far the worst part of the game, the unit homogeny is fine to some, I play a lot of RTS so I don't mind it at all. The sieges are just kind of irredeemable.
Apart from this, yeah, it's polished and plays well, and looks gorgeous.
>>337899446
>Not FotS
Please
I really like FotS with the mod made by the LME guy.
A shame it still suffers from the fundamental S2 problems though.
>>337899579
>Cause it was the last time CA really had their shit together. Attila is pretty good though, just a victim of typical DLC bullshit
Which is really a Sega problem, not CA's fault. They do not actually chose their business plans.
Shogun 2 has a bunch of issues though. The A.I. isn't great, the fucking Real Divided was probably the dumbest idea in the entire fucking history of the Total War series, and the Coop is CRIPPLED by the fact that you can't hunt down disbanded enemy units after the battle is officially won. Makes coop basically unplayable and insanely frustrating.
Mechanically speaking (and especially when it comes to coop), I think Attila is a lot better, despite the fact that I do like the settings of Shogun more.
>>337899446
For the games, depends on the period, there's very little Heian period or before, maybe something like Okami for the heavy shinto themes. Even less is around for the Meiji period, but there's a lot in the Sengoku and Edo period.
Tenchu, Sengoku Basara, Warriors Orochi and Onimusha are all I can think off the top of my head. It's not an incredibly dense theme, but there are a few that have heavy Japanese themes such as Okami. Tenchu is great, I'd recommend that if you want a game actually set in Japan, gritty ninja action, if a little clunky gameplay-wise.
>>337899936
Attila AI is some of the best in all of strategy games, although like any game it has its hiccups.
I see no reason to return to any Total War game made before Attila if the AI isn't transferred. It seriously ruined everything before itself and I loved Shogun 2.
>>337900271
The realm divide used to piss me off too, but the more I play Rome 2, the more I miss it as I find myself not finishing games. It's just so easy to get to the stage where you're so big you can easily steamroll everyone else.
It isn't perfect, but the reason divide is still one of the best (and also only times) that CA has tried to make the end game interesting so I hope they keep trying stuff like this in their future games.
>>337902850
>It's just so easy to get to the stage where you're so big you can easily steamroll everyone else.
One thing is to figure out a ballancing system to prevent the snowball effect, the other is to do it in such a SPECTACULARLY IDIOTIC fashion.
The problem is not in the fact that they attempted to raise up the stakes and prevent the snowball effect. The problem is that of all the possible ways to do that, they simply chose the most fucking moronic way possible, one that actively and systematically undermines half of everything you had done in the game AND removes an entire fucking aspect of the gameplay.
It's not a problem of intention, but of INSANELY STUPID and poor and lazy execution.
>>337903007
Yeah it was stupid as fuck when allies who you had been friends with since the beginning of the game would declare war on you a couple of turns after the RD, and also that any vassals you made after the RD rebelled the next turn.
On the other hand, I've seen people here say that this more or less fits with the sengoku jidai period and besides, it's not like you're missing much by the RD removing the diplomacy part of the game, which is just as shit as it is in every TW
>>337903953
>On the other hand, I've seen people here say that this more or less fits with the sengoku jidai period and besides
First of all, not even close. There was one event in which allies turned onto their leader, which also resulted in him failing his conquest, but the main reason why that happened was because he was treating them like shit and supporting the foreigners.
Second of all, by removing diplomacy you INVALIDATE everything the played has done and invested into that, remove one of the more interesting aspects of the game, PUNISH player for investing into trade and securing political advantages, and refocus the entirety of the game on defensive siege warfare, the most boring, frustrating and also broken aspect of the game, as the auto-resolve mechanic does not approprietly calculate defenders advantage, meaning that you are going to spend the next sixty FUCKING HOURS manually resolving two or three siege wars per FUCKING turn because you are literally attacked on EVERY FUCKING POSSIBLE FRONT since every single A.I. in the game declares and executed warfare at you.
This is not only the dumbest thing Creative Assembly has ever done, it's probably the dumbest thing done in history of fucking strategy game genre: it turns a very good game into almost unplayable shit one while arbitrarily punishing player for more creative ways of playing it.
This shit should have made people trash the game and boycott it untill CA got of their asses and fixed it. Diplomacy and and has been solved by few simple mods - it wasn't broken at core, just not very well ballanced. Realm Divided, however, can't be simply fixed, it can be only removed: which however makes the game laughably easy.
But even that is better than punishing the player for seemingly valid strategies and taking advantage of more options than just the core military and economic conquest while re-emphasising the most broken and annoying aspect of the game.
>>337899669
They're just outdated and less polished. Good when they came out but can't be best right now.
>>337899446
Because they took their time with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nqc7ZSjOM
>>337905193
>by removing diplomacy you INVALIDATE everything the played has done and invested into that
>playing total war games for the diplomacy
if youre stupid enough to rely on the diplomacy system of a total war game then you deserve to get fucked over. you should consider CK2/EU4/any other paradox game if you want less shitty diplomacy
>"diplomacy wasn't broken at core"
literally the only time you ever use diplomacy in a total war game is for free $$ from trade agreements or to marry off daughters with shitty traits. dont even pretend that it doesnt suck and isnt barebones.
>mods fix it
no, the jews at creative assembly make sure that mods cant change anything substantial or add any new features. modders can literally only reskin or change the values relating to damage or diplomacy points and shit. you admit this when you say that the realm divide cant be fixed by mods
>punishing the player for seemingly valid strategies and taking advantage of more options than just the core military and economic conquest
did you miss the part in the title that says "total war"? not only has CA literally put that in the name of the series, they also have a mountain of shitty fucking achievements that all revolve around declaring war on everyone.
youre right that there should be more than one strategy and that you should be able to use the diplomacy/economical systems properly but dont expect anything more from CA - not only are they hacks, but theyre also under the thumb of the incompetent sega
Rome 2 is not bad if you ignore the DLC factions.
>>337907442
Not him but that's a stupid argument, if there's diplomacy in the game then it should be good. That's all.
If it's useless then it shouldn't be in the game, if it's in the game then it should work properly. No excuses.
>>337907442
>if youre stupid enough to rely on the diplomacy system of a total war game then you deserve to get fucked over.
Yeah - nothing worse than taking advantage of the systems and mechanics that the game offers. You are delusionate cretin, by the way.
>dont even pretend that it doesnt suck and isnt barebones.
Actually, while it isn't very complex, it's still welcome additional set of tools and most of it's flaws can be resovolved by a very basic mods and value tweaking.
Arguing that it's OK for a game to punish player for using a mechanic because the mechanic isn't all that amazing has to be some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen.
>no, the jews at creative assembly make sure that mods cant change anything substantial or add any new features.
Except the main problems of diplomacy can be fixed. Lack of variety cannot, but it's unreliability can and is fixed easily. You can have fairly satisfying and reliable diplomatic play until the Realm Divided occurs with mods that have little over 100 kB.
Also, HOW IS THIS AN ARGUMENT AGAINST SHITTYNESS OF REALM FUCKIGN DIVIDED YOU MONGOLOID?!
>>337907442
>did you miss the part in the title that says "total war"?
HOW IS THIS A FUCKING ARGUMENT?!
Also, I can expect a lot from CA, considering all the great things they had done. Shogun 2 mostly works well, some things are wonky, most of which can be easily fixed. It's a good fucking game at core: not perfect, there could always be more systems, more complexity, better ballance but all things considered it was a damn fun game, which makes the UTTER SHITTYNESS of the UNSOLVABLE Realm Divide fuckup all the more painful.
The fucking problem here is that the game isn't bad. It's fairly good, in fact, UP TILL THAT COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY FUCK-UP.
Ultimate General: Gettysburg. It's the only Total War game that's a functioning game.
Whats Total War: Warhammer shaping up to be like I haven't been following it.
Is it going to be better than the shit show that was Attila or about the same level?
He went in and came out alive with a thousand kills.
>>337908253
It's really hard to tell
>>337908253
>Is it going to be better than the shit show that was Attila
Attila was pretty good, shitty business model not withstanding. I doubt that Warhammer will be very good on release: Total War games tend to be good on second or third itterations: whenever they decide to do some big overhauls, or focus on the spectacle of things it usually does not end up well.
>>337908195
Darth please.
don't forget to thank mitch for the installer.
>>337908253
the battles play completely differently, and now that they have mods, you can tweak shit.
>>337908026
>nothing worse than taking advantage of the systems and mechanics that the game offers
when the systems and mechanics are shit and have hardly improved over the series then, yes, you are stupid. Relying on them will cause you to lose every time against any opponent who focuses on the military side of the game, which is clearly what CA intends or they would put effort into fixing it
>You are delusionate cretin, by the way
>HOW IS THIS A FUCKING ARGUMENT?!
>main problems of diplomacy can be fixed
this is because there is almost physically nothing to fix because it is so lacking in features.
>You can have fairly satisfying and reliable diplomatic play
how can I respond to this other than that you must be simple if you are satisfied with TW diplomacy? there is still no casus belli mechanic, you cant trade provinces, alliances dont mean anything, you can send food, blah blah blah. literally every diplomacy related feature, except basic trade agreements and marriage, that you could want are missing from the game and you still like this aspect of it?
>HOW IS THIS A FUCKING ARGUMENT?!
its not, its me telling you to stop expecting anything amazing from CA because its not going to happen
>It's a good fucking game
>most of it's flaws can be resovolved by a very basic mods
>I can expect a lot from CA, considering all the great things they had done
3 shekels have been deposited in your shill account
>which makes the UTTER SHITTYNESS of the UNSOLVABLE Realm Divide fuckup all the more painful
just get some of them good mods that fix everything to help you there, my good sir. srsly though, i dont know why you get so butthurt over the RD but if you truly believe its the worst part of the game then i dont know what to say 2bh
>>337909643
>>most of it's flaws can be resovolved by a very basic mods
>>I can expect a lot from CA, considering all the great things they had done
>3 shekels have been deposited in your shill account
what does this even mean?
TW R2 and attila overhauled the campaign mechanics so that the AI actually listens to what you say. More stable empires are not going to betray you. You can confederate with similar factions, keep satrapies and client states to levy soldiers off them and keep corruption in check, and ally with them eventually.
yes, its not as coherent as EU4, but TW is always about the battles, with the campaign serving as the backdrop.
The casus belli mechanic is not necessary for a TW game.
I know im gonna get shat on for this, but i really liked both Empire and Napoleon.
There just isn't enough games where you order around line infantry.
The only other one of that kind i can think of is Imperial Glory.
>>337899446
Sword of the samurai
its a dos game but probably the best Samurai game I've played
>>337899446
Shogun 2 is the best Total War game because of the mods.
Hayabusa mods, Sekigahara, etc. Great overhauls to the base game that are very well made.
Prove me wrong.
>>337910006
You aren't the only one, I quite enjoyed Empire. Played it on a total shitbox that could barely run it at the time, but unlike everyone else the game ran perfectly on lowest settings and never crashed for me.
>>337909643
>when the systems and mechanics are shit and have hardly improved over the series then, yes, you are stupid.
Except they aren't. They aren't great. They still do actually improve the gameplay though, add more options, more complexity. Removing them does not benefit the game, it hinders it.
Saying "I would rather they were even more flashed out" does not make their presence unjustified, and their removal a terrible decision. Fuck off, this is pathetic way to dick your "I'm so elitist I'm going to berate you and shit on things" card that has nothing to do with the actual argument at hand.
The diplomacy is there and it contributes to the gameplay, even if not as much as one might dream it could. Removing it entirely and punish player for taking advantage of it in the past is unbelivably stupid thing to do. End of any fucking discussion.
>this is because there is almost physically nothing to fix because it is so lacking in features.
This is objectively false. The main problem of the diplomacy in vanilla was it's unreliability and unpredictable and illogical behavior, which can literally be fixed with couple of value tweaks.
>how can I respond to this other than that you must be simple if you are satisfied with TW diplomacy?
Again the PATHETIC attempt at sounding cool and sophisticated instead of actually adressing anything I've said. Fuck off you pretentious cunt.
>its not, its me telling you to stop expecting anything amazing from CA because its not going to happen
I'm talking about specific and uniquelly bad decision specific for this particular game. "You are stupid for expecting something else" is a dishonest, shitty, pathetic and unrelated reply.
>3 shekels have been deposited in your shill account
You are a parody of the worst /v/ cunt at this point, do you even realize that? Fucking shill card of all the bullshit.
I'm done. You are dumb cunt and I've wasted enough time on you. Next time don't post if you don't want to even talk about games.
>>337908319
What mod is that?
>>337907442
>>337905193
>>337903953
>>337903007
Allies who are of loyal nature will NOT turn when Realm Divide hits. They'll continue to be your allies until they get into hostile territory. Some clans also have a hidden loyal nature to other clans based on the history such as Hojo with the Takeda. In many of my Legendary play-throughs Ive had loyal clans stay true to me the entire game when I focus on the diplomacy.
You people simply don't grasp the finer details of the diplomacy in Shogun 2.
And Realm Divide really is the most interesting feature of the game. You literally have to design your whole strategy around it. It prevents you from just steamrolling across the map along with provincial rebellions. It's absolutely brilliant.
>>337899446
Warband with Gekokujo
last Nobunaga's Ambition game was also good
My only complaint with Shogun 2 is the bullshit samurai stack of death the AI manages to pull out of its ass every 4-5 turns.
>>337911265
This would be a big deal if Yari Ashigaru weren't the best unit in the game so you can easily crank out as many units as them even on legendary
>>337899446
Way of the Samurai 3 got a PC port a couple months ago. Haven't played it myself so I don't know if I can recommend it but it's set in feudal Japan.
>>337911037
Realm Divide make you loose influence or whatever it used to be called towards every other clans, allies and ennemies alike.
If you want to keep your allies for awhile you literally need to dump a shitload of money on them constantly
![genji_116067[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ebq9zZw.jpg "genji_116067[1].jpg")
>>337899446
Genji: Days of the Blade
It's based on famous battles, which actually took place in ancient Japan.
>>337911265
Atleast this game provides a bigger challange compared to the other total war games. I am always looking forward to realm divide, knowing that there is a 50% my vessels/allies will stick with me or not.
>>337911037
>Allies who are of loyal nature will NOT turn when Realm Divide hits.
That is objectively and provably false. There is a flat diplomacy penalty that applies to all clans in the game, loyalty and high diplomatic relationships only cause the penalty to take longer to accumulate. The relationship penalty continues to apply even after the event, so you can't even forge an new alliances after the event takes place. Applying loyalty traits (which can be added or removed from nonplayable clans) does not change that. I know this because I've spend quite some time trying to figure out how to engineer around the RD event without canceling it all together. As did hundreds of other people, yet there is no mod that could work around it without changing the flat diplomacy penalty value - the change does not matter much because you can't remove it's cumulative properties, you can only reduce it to zero, cancelling the impact entirely, or decrease the rate giving you just more breathing time before inevitably, all diplomacy get's shut down.
In other words you are lying. Which is quite interesting. I don't know what it is about RD apologets that are so mad and rabid and quite frankly a bit scary. I guess it boils down to them feeling super hardcore for finishing the game despite it, a sort of masochism and elitism and delusion combined.
>>337908253
Battles looking good.
Sieges looking terrible.
Needs more factions, maybe with some narrative campaigns added. Expect the dlc to run and run.
There's a 100kb mod to remove realm divide you know that right?
I installed it on my second playthrough and I could keep my fucking trades.
The best Total War game is Medieval 2 because it's the most moddable.
>>337901046
By good ai do you mean the ai in the battles or the ai on the strategic map?
The strategic one seemed decent at higher difficulties in shogun, but the battle one was retarted in all total war games i've tried.
>>337907043
>outdated and less polished
I will never understand this argument.
>>337911946
less features and options in almost all aspects of the game = outdated
>>337911683
>There's a 100kb mod to remove realm divide you know that right?
Sure but then the powercreep and ballance issue kicks in. The problem of Realm Divided is not that it exists, it's presence is necessary for maintaining late game challenge. The problem is in the execution of it. Flat relationship penalty and automatic alliance with all clans that are at war with you (which are all of them, regardless of what you do after few years) is just insanely lazy model.
>>337911920
>but the battle one was retarted in all total war games i've tried.
Battle A.I. is considerably better in Atilla. It's still far from perfect, but it's a lot more diverse and fun. You'll actually find some degree of diversity in executed strategies on the battle field. It makes more really dumb mistakes, but it also takes more risks and vary the behavior.
I actually got quite screwed over in my first run because I expected the regular old TW combat A.I. and got caught up and suprised several times.
Eventually, with enough hours, it will get predictable and exploitable, but it's a hell of lot better than it was in previous games.
>>337899446
>Arr Rook Same 2: Oily Gooks Edition
>best total war
Attila, Med2 and Nappy are all better
>>337911591
You are deliberately misconstruing what I said. The loyalty trait determines whether the clan will flat out declare war on you when realm divide hits. Aggressive and shady temperament clans will betray you immediately upon Realm Divide whatever their current friendship level. Loyal type clans will not assuming you have built sufficient friendship but of course they still get hit with the penalty that eventually reaches -200 but that can still easily be overcome with traits and bribes if you play right. The point is that loyal clans can still be reliable allies after Realm Divide as long as you don't let them reach hostility where they would naturally declare war, Realm Divide or not.
Your saying Diplomacy doesn't matter and bitching about Realm Divide. Diplomacy done right can overcome the effects of Realm Divide if your smart enough about it. I've conquered the map with Takeda or Chosokabe at my side the whole time after Realm Divide on legendary.
>>337899446
>Also can you recommend me games set in medieval Japan?
Yakuza Ishin, Way of the Samurai series, Nioh
>>337912775
>The loyalty trait determines whether the clan will flat out declare war on you when realm divide hits.
It only determines WHEN they will declare war on you. They will, inevitably, declare it because there about hundred relationship penalty per turn. Loyalty trait decreases all negative realationship penalties by a certain margin, which means that it takes more turns until they reach the breaking point. But unless you have a way to improve your relationship with them by number equivalent to the flat penalty each turn, the alliance cannot be maintained. This will continue for the rest of the game, by the way.
Constant bribing every turn by several thousand gold pieces for the rest of the game is not doing your diplomacy right. Diplomacy decision should have long term impact. Compensating for a shitty mechanic by needless busywork and burning money is not my idea for a good gameplay mechanic. What you are doing is an exploit of the mechanic that has nothing to do with the diplomacy logic. They are not reliable allies if they keep dropping their relationship by hundred or so per turn because the game arbitrarily decided so.
>>337899446
>>337899446
Sengoku Rance
