The extremely negative reception for this game only shows how much the game industry is afraid of offering new ways to play games. Not like this is a 10/10 masterpiece by any means, far from that, but is hard to understand why the controls were such a chore for many people in the gaming journalism.
They do work. They may not be easy to get used to at first, but they definitely work. For all vehicles, for all stages and boss fights, the game was designed around the whole motion/dual screen ideas, so it's supposed to play smoothly once you learn them. And it really does.
Will it ever get past the whole hate we've seen so far?
Only two hipsters gave this game 9.5 and 9.6
>Cheat.cc and Atomix mexico
No. These people don't want to git gud.
>>337872749
Did you see Polygon try to play Doom?
It's not surprising reviewers cant take the time to learn new controls.
>>337872859
Not supposed to be a 9 or 10, but some 6's to 2 are also unfair
"The industry" doesn't want anything new, what they want is flashy shit that's easy to advertise and make money with.
Nothing but that until the end of time.
>>337872749
I wonder what mental gymnastics Star Fox fans will pull in order to blame Krystal for this.
>>337872859
I have a friend who won't even try gyro controls in splatoon.
>>337872749
if you gonna offer a new ways to play it has to be good too. anyone can offer new and fresh garbage.
and in this case it's garbage
So I cancelled my preorder because the reviews, then ended up playing it at my nephew's house a couple weeks later, AND FUCKING LOVED IT!
Kill me.
I tried gyro controls. I can get used to them, but I don't want to. You're asking me for 50-60 bucks. Therefore, I get to decide what controller I want to use. Otherwise I throw your game in the trash. As a paying customer I will not make accomodations just so you can make a profit off of being lazy.
>>337873337
Can you tell us why it's garbage? That extra layer of accuracy really helps the pacing of the action in this game.
The only way this can be any better is to use a VR device.
>>337873451
Is it as good as a KBM controller? Better yet, can I use a KBM controller instead?
>>337873375
Aren't you the one being lazy?
That's like throwing the new TMNT game because the KB+M controls aren't good.
It sucks OP, let it go.
There are actually good games with a steep learning curve like Bayo 2 or W101.
SFO is just mediocre.
>>337873595
No, I'm not the lazy one here because I'm the one paying money for this game. It's called "having basic rights as a consumer".
"you're just afraid of change" has always been a terrible argument
the question is: is the change needed and does it improve the previous state of affairs
change for the sake of change is pointless and often makes things worse
>>337873112
No, what they want is a game that lasts longer than three fucking hours that uses a control scheme that you don't need to spend a solid 90 percent of the game learning.
>B-but it's an arcade game! It's SUPPOSED to be played multiple times over!
I could understand that point if Star Fox was in any way different depending on difficulty, or type of ship you choose, or character stats, or maybe even a hard mode, but NOPE, none of that in this game!
When people play short games like Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta 1+2, DMC3+4, RE4, etc., it's because there's something to be gotten from each new playthrough; the games that Platinum usually makes have different enemy AI patterns/positions on harder difficulties, leading to an increased challenge besides "play through the game on one life", or "You take more damage, enemies take less". Star Fox Zero has none of this. It is the exact same experience every fucking time you play it.
I honestly think that they need to put Miyamoto out to pasture, because he's clearly totally incompetent at his craft.
my biggest gripe about this game is how much it unashamedly apes from 64
I mean it's basically the same fucking game other than the new vehicles, which are very hit or miss
>>337873547
Flight Sims are bad with KB+M. Why do you think many Battlefield players uses KB+M most of the time, and switch to a controller when they get in a plane?
Mouse is way better for accuracy (Splatoon would be better with a mouse), but Plane-flying games requires analog movement found in analog sticks.
>>337873715
The change needed did improve the game and franchise as a whole.
>>337873686
The shit I read here. Oh man.
>>337873784
Did you even read the OP?
No one's saying the game's great or anything in terms of content or anything really, even the music isnt memorable.
The problem lies with all reviewers not even being able to get used to really simple controls.
>>337873851
>Flight Sims are bad with KB+M.
Do you expect me to read past this, when flight sims using KBM are some of the most intuitive games out there?
>>337872749
>The extremely negative reception for this game only shows how much the game industry is afraid of offering new ways to play games.
It sounds to me like Nintendo is trying to sell people oval shaped tires or something. We have controls that already work perfectly fine, why would anyone want to waste time relearning how to play a game?
>>337873686
Thank you for ruining video games btw.
>>337874062
>wanting basic consumer rights is "ruining video games"
Whatever you say.
>journos are bad at games
>that actually means game is good
It makes me fucking laugh when blind fanboys actually believe this, yes does happen, reviewers can't git gud and are such pissbabies they rate the game low, but Star Fox Zero deserves the scores it gets. You can 100% the game around 10 hours if you're competent. It has that little content.
There's no expert mode, no real multiplayer, has less planets than 64, and bosses are unimaginative. It's complete mediocrity, and considering it's just yet another remake of 64 but with even less content, emabrassing.
>>337873337
Have you used the gyro controls in any of the Zelda games? The make everything done in first person a joy.
>>337872749
>but is hard to understand why the controls were such a chore for many people in the gaming journalism.
This really isn't anything new.
>>337874167
>You can 100% the game around 10 hours
More like 5.
>>337873375
entitled like a child but unable to adapt like an adult
worst of both worlds
>>337874218
>
I've played Zelda games on the PC with modded in keyboard and mouse controls. IT's far superior.
>>337874218
i tried in Twilight Princess HD and thx god the game let me turn it off. it's garbage clunky and it's main reason i quit Splatoon.
>>337874167
have you played it? If so, did you use a guide for alternate exits, medals and getting the mission accomplished states?
I don't disagree with what you said, I just want to know.
>>337874405
It's my bloody money! I'll be as entitled as I please.
>>337874020
Because some people seek for more than what everyone else offers? You may say anything about how shitty Nintendo is nowadays and I would agree, but they at least care about trying different stuff once in a while, which sometimes actually work pretty well. Not some "you're afraid of changes" speech, gaming doesn't need to change, but having new approaches to certain genres such as arcade shooters is refreshing. See how much fresh air Splatoon brought to the genre, specially for an audience who doesn't enjoy most shooters out there.
>>337873375
have you never owned a console in your life?
>>337874167
But it's okay when Nintendo does it.
>>337874115
I didn't know they were forcing you to buy their games. I feel sorry for you bro.
Star Fox didn't need "new ways to play" it.
It needed new concepts in general. It plays it too safe by riding on 64's coattails in terms of locations and characters, sometimes even dialogue. The chicken walker is from Star Fox 2. The gyrocopter is underutilized. The supposed new plot points Miyamoto kept going on about like the portals and Andross' connection to General Pepper aren't even major things.
>>337873784
>It is the exact same experience every fucking time you play it.
You're not just insulting Star Fox Zero. You're basically insulting most of the entire rail shooter genre. So fuck you.
>>337874561
>See how much fresh air Splatoon brought to the genre
And yet it'll never be as good as Quake or Team Fortress Classic because it's gimped in many ways.
Because regardless of whether the controls work or not, i shouldn't be forced to learn a new scheme that adds very little to the gameplay. That is why they are so noticeable. They tried to reinvent the whole wheel just so you could shoot your freaking pew pew lasers in a novel way.
Thats why it deserves all the shit it got.
>>337874167
>measuring games by hours to complete instead other relevant aspects
no wonder why gaming grew so shitty
>>337874687
Crimson Clover here. At least I offer new ships to play through the game as.
>>337874671
>It needed new concepts in general
this for the series that couldn't even decide what genre it was for the past few decades. If anything it needed to stick with a concept and work on it
>>337872749
I played it and the controls really do work if you're willing to learn and stumbling along the way.
But all this was remastered star fox 64 with a not very impressive new coat of paint for full price.
It's honestly not worth it.
>>337872749
It's not only the controls or gimmicks. The problem is reviewers that don't play videogames. See the new Doom reviews and the baffling gameplay showcased by Polygon. See also the amounts of positive reviews Uncharted 4 got, despite the lack of gameplay.
The companies catering to these "reviewers" are the problem, and the reason you've been playing the same games re-skinned for decades. And yes, Nintendo is part of those companies. SF0 was designed to save the gamepad and to trigger nostalgia. It failed at both.
>>337873939
and they shouldn't be getting used to them. the game is atrocious
Is Guard and Zero a good deal for 35?
The reason I didn't like it is because although the levels were nice by themselves, they do not flow together and lose the arcade feeling SF64 had. You could pick up and play through levels with a consistent tempo, and Zero has them broken up from regular linear flights to dog fights to gyro shit to gorilla bosses. Which is fine for one playthrough but really destroys any additional playthrough.
It was good, but it doesn't hold up for multiple playthroughs.
>>337873851
>The change needed did improve the game and franchise as a whole.
Maybe the most delusional thing I've read all day. Miyamoto sabotaged the game, he's gone senile. When KojiPro called platinum to fix the flaming hot mess that Revengeance was, they only stuck their nose in cutscenes, and otherwise let platinum do their thing (it turned out great). In starfox's case, miyamoto definitely did not let platinum do their own thing. At the end of the day the franchise is still dying, and Zero will not be remembered as the savior that it needed to be.
>>337872749
>I'm upset because a game I like didn't get great reviews
You are fucking pathetic, just kill yourself.
>>337873375
Do you not understand what purchasing a product means?
Spending your hard earned cash on something for the purpose of entertainment means you are making a commitment in experiencing the creator's work. Whether you like it or not, some people don't want to cater to normies like yourself, maybe they want a niche audience instead of a wider demographic.
Indie games are (sometimes) the most successful at this, usually because you're either not dishing out a quarter of your paycheck and the devs get a pass for being a small team. Indie games can get away with appealing to a niche audience without backlash and experimenting with formulas because of this.
But when a triple A company does it, it is suddenly shunned as a sin for not playing safe with the homogeneous design that most giants of the industry foster. When you go big, you no longer think about what you wanna make, but what garners the bigger audience. That's why people like you exist, you have gained a sense of entitlement and ignorance that have plagued the gaming industry for staying in your safe bubble. I am not saying that Star Fox Zero should be considered a masterpiece, there are plenty of other issues that make this game not as good as 64, but the fact that the homogeneous design of mainstream gaming have practically killed off any experimentation allowed in the AAA market and the privilege has been passed onto the indie devs is pretty disheartening.
tl;dr: You along with every other entitled normie are slowly killing our chances of experimentation in the gaming industry
>>337874218
no, they are shit, you get limited benefits at the cost of having to recenter every 10 seconds
fuck that shit, i'd rather aim with my stick as always
>>337874720
what makes you think it's reinventing the wheel? All it does is add an extra layer of control to an established control scheme. It's like complaining that you have to control the tilt on an analog stick to run when you can use the dpad and a button in older games.
>>337874489
Of course I played it.
Getting the alternate exists isn't a challenge at all due to how the teleporters are all in plain sight or all you need to do is lock on to star wolf in certain levels. I only used a guide for medals I absolutely could not figure out on my own and most were completely retarded like "let this enemy live" or "turn into walker mode in this exact spot" that require no skill.
>>337874778
100% dude. The whole mantra everyone has been shouting in these threads is replayability because people complain you can unlock all levels around 3 hours, it only takes 7 more hours to fully beat the game. It took me months to get all medals in 64, I never even got them all on expert mode.
>>337875027
Haven't played Guard yet but zero is pretty much a remake of Starfox 64... which isn't really a bad thing. I would say yes.
>>337873220
He's a fucking idiot. I think the SFZ controls are shit, but Splatoon gyro is objectively better. Played with analog sticks for ages until I tried it and realized how great it is.
>>337875027
Pretty gud man. I haven't played Guard yet, but Zero is at least worth $30.
>>337874720
Tell me: what is VR? What is a touchpad? What is a kinect? What about dual screen gaming with phones? Headsets with voice chat/commands? Online?
Aren't these "reinventing the wheel" modes of playing your games? Would you stick with a d-pad + 2 buttons forever and force everyone else to accept the fact gaming shouldn't ever try new things?
>>337875027
That's how much the bundle should have cost.
Go for it.
>>337875027
Dollars? Absolutely.
the game is a sack of uninspired shit and that's not even counting the controls anon
>>337875035
>I know the exact intricacies of what occurred during the development of the game
I just beat it yesterday and the game and controls are great
Andross was kinda bullshit tho
Polygons review was Arthur Gies saying it was too hard
>>337875052
How old are you? 12?
Zero is bad but not because of the controls, it tries to be like 64 but does everything worse.
>>337872749
a shame this is a first party nintendo game so its price will never EVER go down.
>>337875258
Half of those are shit, though.
>>337875076
>but the fact that the homogeneous design of mainstream gaming have practically killed off any experimentation allowed in the AAA market and the privilege has been passed onto the indie devs is pretty disheartening.
This would only be true if I enjoyed some bland triple A cinematic shooter, or that my GOTY wasn't a nice little humble indie game.
Meanwhile, you're telling me that I'm "normie cancer" because I didn't buy the latest overhyped Triple A Nintendo game. The irony.
Controls are supposed to improve a game, when starfox 64 came out no one was saying "oh i wish i could have Starfox controls from SNES back" If controls change it should be to improve the things the classic games got right because it's part of what makes the game, you just don't replace that with shity gimmicks and expect everyone to like it.
>>337874228
What people forget was it is it took a *long time* for the free look camera to become commonplace in game design (yes even on PC FFPS the mouse look feature wasn't default)
I think Alien was the first game to actually probably use it. Before then it was for stuff special items in ape escape.
>>337875035
This, Mijayew has ALWAYS hated star fox.
>>337874020
I'd absolutely loved to have gyro camera controls in something like the Souls games. Moving your thumb from the actual buttons over to the stick, momentarily losing control of your character, just to be able to control the camera. Is completely unnecessary and I wish there was a better way to control the camera.
Then I played Splatoon and it turned it turned out there was. And then I realized that this gyro capability is apparently a standard across the controllers of all modern platforms. Developers just aren't putting it to use.
>a simple single stick on-rail shooter
Yeah it totally needed gyro controls and two screens
>BUT PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT'S TOO MUCH LIKE 64
You mean like they're doing now? At least nobody would be bitching about the controls
>>337875258
well, SFZ tried new things an failed miserably
>>337875682
Nice. Are you a CEO of some company or shit? Because an opinion on some image board would definitely make them cease making these (and people from buying such gadgets).
>>337872749
Stop trying to justify the use of motion controls in video games.
>>337875881
>insinuates that part of the reason Star Fox is so successful is because it attracts furries.
He ain't wrong.
>>337875328
The developments regarding the making of MGR are documented. With regards to starfox, we knew we were due for a starfox on wii but it never panned out as more then some tech demo ideas. Zero was SUPPOSED to be an internal project, but the co-development with platinum (which was proposed during bayo2's development) was meant to speed things up. The way Zero came out indicates that platinum helped codemonkey the game to completion, not to offer their two cents on the series.
>>337873851
>The change needed did improve the game and franchise as a whole.
On the contrary, the game suffered as a whole. Its another SS situation, when time wasted on refining a convoluted controller took man power off the actual game design. Some stages in SF0 last less than a couple of minutes (Peppy's mission and alternate Area 6).
Not even the wings break in order to accomodate for the motion controls.
I love the controls and I think the game is only an 8/10, in no way it is a masterpiece
the game needed
-leaderboards to compare high scores with people all over the world and seeing their runs
-more airwing levels, and not gyrowing levels at all
-online multiplayer with 1vs 1 and team matches about space dogfights.
>>337876015
Care to go further about where it did "miserably"?
>>337873375
This is the exact opposite of how video games work.
>>337876158
How about sales and its general reception?
>>337876023
You sound mad as hell right now.
>>337876158
look anon, i'ts fine if you liked it, but you can't just ignore all the negative criticism it got
>>337876126
>Not even the wings break in order to accomodate for the motion controls.
explain
>>337876158
>bombed in Japan
>bombed overseas
>reviewers couldn't into slight motion controls
>average casual is intimidated by the controls
>fans hate the implementation of the gamepad
>furries are mad their favorite whatever didn't get in
Uh
>>337876186
He is the modern normie game. He wants the same control system he's played since COD and will trash the game you don't give it to him. And the publishes will make sure he's happy.
He is worse then casual, he's complacent.
the entitled man children posting in here make me sad
What led to you becoming so bitter and unable to enjoy variety and new things in life
Keyboard and mouse for a flight simulator Jesus Christ
>>337872749
I'm fairly certain that if a game like this launched with the WiiU, maybe along with Splatoon, people might have been a little more interested in the system itself. But, after a shitty start and a confusing life cycle, by the time we get interesting or quality games it's just way too late and the meme of making fun of the controller is cemented in.
Hey, here's a thought:
What if people don't want to be forced to use a gimmick control scheme, in case it doesn't work for them for any given reason? Not that they can't, they'd just prefer something that might be less work to them, considering that it's an entertainment product?
Sounds crazy, I know.
>>337872918
And you don't wanna lose weight you fat bitch
>>337876158
It was one of April's best selling games
http://venturebeat.com/2016/05/12/nintendos-star-fox-and-bravely-second-rank-among-aprils-best-selling-console-games/
>>337875974
where did you get the idea that the new control scheme is to differentiate it from 64? Gyro controls were a positive addition to the game and a logical advancement considering how they were used successfully in Splatoon and the zelda remasters. The simultaenous use of two screens was a mistake, but it falls on the game's briefing being based around using as much of the gamepad as possible, which is why it had other questionable design choices like forcing the player to use the gamepad's speakers
>>337876523
>motionbabies being anything but casual garbage who play games for the innovation and not fo a core solid gameplay.
Kek, why you people didnt die with first WII and kinect again?
>>337876576
>What led to you becoming so bitter and unable to enjoy variety and new things in life
I just took a fresh shit. Come eat it.
If you say no, I'll call you a jaded, entitled manchild unable to enjoy new things in life.
>"waaaah everyone disliked my game"
>"why are people so close minded !!"
the game we all expected for decades it's mediocre at best anon, just accept that and move forward
>>337876523
>implying I've ever played COD at any point in my life
Keep the strawman rolling, fella.
>>337876617
>why come I can't play Starcraft with an NES controller
This is how retarded you are
>>337876394
Wings don't break because it caused the ship to "sink" in previous games. Imagine handling that, plus the motion controls. That fag at polygon would've commited suicide.
>someone brings up the gyro controls
>GIT GUD
Tell that to all the casuals they were aiming for in the first place. Obviously the diehard fans will hate change, but it's not a good sign when you scare away new people.
>>337876576
>the entitled man children posting in here make me sad
>Nintoddler calling others manchilds
Oh now that's rich
>>337876720
>Can't git gud at fucking star fox
>calling others casuals
Kop Tek
>>337876720
>he's too stupid to control with both analogs while also aiming on a 3rd axis
>>337876617
then they can set the motion controls to minimal and keep the controller on their lap as usual.
>>337876869
>the gamepad can only be used one way, gimmicks or bust
Don't be retarded.
>>337876869
>How come I can't play Fruit Ninja with a light gun?
I like nonsense, too. So lol and randumb, right fellow gamer?
>>337876720
Because it actually does give a better game experience. You get faster more precise responsive control.
Or you would, if only you were willing to learn. Instead of moaning about how motion control waggle harms is your 'hard core' aim assisted control stick experience.
>>337876869
I should be able to play it with an NES controller, if only because I want to know if it's better as a control scheme.
yes, KBM will be the optimal one, but my right as a customer says "give me every control scheme". After all, it is my money.
>>337877010
>manchilds
You should fucking learn to fucking speak fucking English before you fucking call someone else a fucking child.
ENGLSH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?
>>337877136
Is it faster and more responsive than a KBM scheme?
>>337877025
>>337877032
Shitty shoehorned gimmicks to showoff a kids toy =/ skill, please kill yourselves, Startfox Zero is a literal zero out of ten, into the trash it fuckin goes.
>>337876720
dual analogue sticks are trash for shooters
the motion controls of the gamepad work perfectly and imitate the flight sticks for pc simulators, which are motion controls.
>>337872749
No one thinks they cant work, we're just sick of them. The gimmick fad has ended and you'll just have to accept that. People just want to play normal videogames.
Starfox Zero's controls coulda been great and coulda proven that the concept is a better way to control things, instead its clunky, intrusive, and is overused. For fucks sake the bosses didnt have to ALL BE RANGE MODE.
pic entirely fucking related, Nintendo doesn't seem to understand the concept of controls aiding something, instead they force them in and say "fuck you, this is all you get" which is why the fad faded and died and ISN'T going to come back.
The Wii's audience was never the core either, it sold on a extremely popular 1 times sales boom and then died, which is why the WiiU sold like shit under the same name.
Motion controls are dead
We've all moved on
Nintendo is behind the times once again
Deal.
>>337877212
Even if I understood that reference that was painfully cringey
I recommend to try to post that on reddit next time
>>337872749
Even if this game had perfect controls, its still severely lacking in other areas.
>>337877010
>uses the phrase nintoddler
>isn't a Manchild
>>337877136
They're perfectly in the right to not want to learn - that's their preference.
Right, I'm laying this right out on the line, I've argued this junk for nearly a year now:
If you or anyone else attempts to determine a developmental level of accomplishment by playing a children's computer game, that person's life needs reevaluation.
>>337873130
>furry detected
kill urself my man
>>337877396
I'm just calling them for what they are
>>337877278
>Suck at the game
>Y-YEAH, WELL THERE'S NO SKILL ANYWAY
You sound like a meleefag
>>337877359
Nice ad hominem, broham
What caused this latest surge of entitled basement dwellers ? Is it PC gamings fault
>>337877309
>the motion controls of the gamepad work perfectly
Stopped reading there. KBM works perfectly. It is the only control scheme that will ever work perfectly. The most gyro can do is try to imitate it.
Please, do not insult me or anyone else here.
>>337872749
Nobody is "afraid" of new control schemes. They just dislike them because basing games around retarded gimmicks instead of natural, precise controls is fucking stupid and only makes them worse.
>>337877212
This post is brought to you by Autism Awareness.
>>337877309
>dual analogue sticks are trash for shooters
I could play 2 of the greatest shooters with not two but one analogue stick back then.
Turok 2 and Starfox 64, newnintendo fags should jump off a bridge, they and senile mijayew have destroyed everything that was good once about Nintendo.
>>337877172
>yes, KBM will be the optimal one
it's not the optimal one, you dipshit, it's the one the game was designed around, and built on the basis of using. The fact that you're paying for it means that you subscribed to the experience that has been designed, not that you've got free reign to impose your autism on the developers
>>337872749
That's completely false. When Nintendo was making this game with those controls, they basically said if Star Fox fans don't like it then too bad. This is a perfect example of Nintendo innovating for the sake of innovation, rather than doing what works.
Take Mario for instance. If you had to tap a touch screen just to make Mario jump. Nintendo would call this innovative. I would call it shit.
People didn't give Star Fox a bad review because it was challenging, or hard. They gave it a bad review because Nintendo took what worked on the original game and threw it right out of the fucking window.
>>337877324
SF0 just exists to prove the Wii U. Everyone should've see this coming from a mile since the unveiling. Wii U sold like shit, Miyamoto was asked to prove the worth of the shit he designed, and he think that the must suited game for that would be Star Fox.
Everything wrong with the Wii U and some of the games can be traced straight back to the gamepad. Is baffling how a game like Mario Maker and Star Fox 0 coexists in the same console. Miyamoto fucked up badly, but i can't blame the man if he was just following orders.
>>337877630
Ebin meem, broseph, I r8 it over 9000/over 9000 meme points. Would toplol again.
>>337872749
>the game was designed around the whole motion/dual screen ideas,
and that was stupid of them to do. motion controls need to go away already. with out feedback, its slippery as fuck.
pointer controls on Wii were good though.
>>337877620
This.
>>337877258
>faster
probably not, full digital response from keyboard and mouse is in general much faster
>more precise
as a game that uses flight controls, absolutely.
>afraid of offering new ways to play games
Nah, they just did a fucking garbage job with Zero.
Pic related, gyro controls people enjoyed without ruining the core gameplay, as well as including traditional options for old and new fans.
It also has local multiplayer so you have another thing to do. Did I mention you can use gyro in the multiplayer?
>>337877484
>Star Fox fan calling anyone furry
>>337877645
>it's not the optimal one, you dipshit,
Nope. if I decide that it's the optimal one, then it's the optimal one, even if the game wasn't designed around it. I get to decide because it's my money that went into buying this game.
>>337877832
>as a game that uses flight controls, absolutely.
Afraid that's false. Nothing can ever compare to a KBM in terms of responsiveness, especially with flight games.
>>337877309
>>dual analogue sticks are trash for shooters
Meanwhile Star Fox 64 was well-received while using ONE
>>337874218
The gyro controls for aiming your tools in SS were a massive fucking chore, you could only aim shit a little bit at a time before needing to reset it and move again. It's like controlling a shit mouse with extremely low sensitivity. With dirt stuck in the sensor.
>>337877569
No more skill than learning the controller controls.
PROVE ME WRONG.
WITH FACTS.
AND SCIENTIFIC STUDIES AND BENCHMARKS.
>>337877771
Thanks for proving him right
>>337877640
Its just splatoonfags leaking in every Nintendo thread as always.
>>337877712
>Take Mario for instance. If you had to tap a touch screen just to make Mario jump. Nintendo would call this innovative. I would call it shit.
That would be almost as horrible as making a Zelda game where you can only move by touching the screen.
>>337875157
>It took me months to get all medals in 64
You were a kid back then. I went back and got all the medals as an adult and it took me around the same time as Zero. Shit is not that long man, arcade shooters never are.
>>337878050
At least Splatoon is a successful and fun game unlike this garbage
>>337877935
you're all kinds of retard just rolled up into one, aren't you?
>>337875918
>Moving your thumb from the actual buttons over to the stick, momentarily losing control of your character, just to be able to control the camera.
Just claw grip you faggot.
>>337878167
You want evidence of what I say? I could point you to the direct console vs PC controller tests done in Shadowrun, if you doubt me.
>>337878005
>PROVE ME WRONG.
>WITH FACTS.
>AND SCIENTIFIC STUDIES AND BENCHMARKS.
Prove yourself right, gaylord. Does no one on this board know how burden of proof works?
>>337878043
>him
>proving
>right
None of these words are correct
If they made the game to where you needed to use the Wii Balance Board and face away from your TV screen while using your cell phone as a mirror to play the game with, it would be a new way of playing, but it's certainly not fun.
the game was a piece of fucking dogshit, completely unenjoyable, worse than 64 in literally every possible aspect other than graphics.
>>337877620
what if I told you the gyro controls become natural and more precise than solely analog after the initial learning curve?
>>337878381
That's what they said about Kinect, and Wiimote, and VR.
Ad guess what? They were still not fun to use, even when you "mastered" them.
>>337877645
>The fact that you're paying for it means that you subscribed to the experience that has been designed, not that you've got free reign to impose your autism on the developers.
If someone is paying for it, that means they voted with their wallet. And would be less likely to do so in the future. So there, the developers basically killed their own Ip for something that doesn’t work over something that would've worked better. Their fault, not mine.
>>337878232
>shadowrun
>flight game
>>337878137
Absolutely, but most of the Splatoon fanbase on /v/ wants to put a gyro on everything, the absolute madmen.
>hold remote sideways for traditional button-based gameplay
>Wii remote+nunchuk to punch and evade with controls
>Wii balance board to actually throw punches and evade by moving your body
THIS is how you do new control schemes while providing options so EVERYONE can enjoy your game. Splatoon is another good example.
Zero is a bad example.
>>337878542
>Kinect
Are you serious? That shit was LITERALLY disfunctional. At least the gamepad Gyro controls actually work
>>337878635
splatoon barely even fucking used the gyro controls, it's used literally for just looking up and down, which SPOILER ALERT is also easy as fuck with an analog stick
>>337878234
>Does no one on this board know how burden of proof works?
And you do?
>>337878592
and that's absolutely fair. They shouldn't be forced to limit themselves to pander to mainstream audiences.
>>337872749
I don't like how you have to keep clicking the stick to snap the Arwing back to the center. It's slower than normal analog control.
>>337872749
>extremely negative
72% isn't "extremely negative", it's "mixed".
50% or lower is "extremely negative".
I heard that airplanes use keyboard and mouse in the cockpit because it's so good
>>337878732
I know better than you, because I went to school and have an intellect.
>>337878836
I heard it allows for more precise controls
Any pilot who doesn't accept it is an entitled manchild
>>337878381
>become natural
Of course they feel natural when you get used to them. What the fuck does it matter?
>and more precise
You're stupid as shit. Rail shooters like Star Fox, Sin & Punishment, and Panzer Dragoon all used a specific control system. You moved your character and moving your character also moved your aiming reticle at the same time. This was an intentional design choice because it tied your mobility and accuracy together and the games required skill as a result of it. You had to master the control scheme to be able to both move safely and aim efficiently at the same time.
Zero throws this shit out the window by separating movement and aiming with the gyro bullshit, and it also greatly slows down the gameplay as a result of the player needing to constantly fucking switch screens for this dumbass shit (look at the games running side by side, Zero moves about 30% slower than 64 did).
The great problem here is that they push these stupid fucking gimmick controls without giving players the option to do anything different, and not giving players options is something Nintendo has always struggled with as a developer. They think they always know best and it's clear that they really fucking don't.
>>337872749
Gyro controls was done years ago with Lair
Dual controls was done years ago with Spyhunter
Please stay dead Iwata.
>>337878542
>my personal experience is objective fact and applies to everyone
I'm also pretty sure nobody but PR shills ever said that about kinect considering how little feedback you get
>>337878843
>because I went to school and have an intellect.
That's a lie since if you were smart you wouldn't buy this shit
>>337873220
took me a few rounds to get the gyro for splatoon down....had a blast using it
>>337878836
They're called drones. I can pilot them and program them with a KBM, and get 100% more feedback than with any other scheme, and less endangerment of pilot lives.
Checkmate, consoles!
>>337878967
Joke's on you, fagmaster. I played my little brother's copy.
protip: if your controls are so fucking garbage they need a dedicated recalibration button, scrap the whole fucking game
>>337877462
Well that would be all sorts of retarded, but in this all they're really asking you to do is use the gamepad while you're playing. Which makes sense given what console you're playing on.
Even if the consensus is out on the gyro controls' intuitiveness (or lack thereof), their presence still sucks ass because they're probably the main reason why we couldn't have traditional 4-man multiplayer. Can't sync up multiple gamepads up to the Wii U and the Pro Controller doesn't have motion controls.
It's just another example of a game regressing because the developers try to push some stupid gimmick. Nintendo is known for their local multiplayer, and that's probably one of the only reasons many people even buy their consoles anymore (as evident from MK8 and Smash 4). Why the fuck would you cut multiplayer from Star Fox, a series that has always had it pretty well done?
Reminder that thumbstick are literally unnecessary and that they were never needed since we already had the d-pads.
Gimmicky bullshit.
>>337872749
>defending this turd
You know you are doing something wrong when your game plays exactly like an N64 title, just with more boring missions and GameCube graphics.
Don't blame the industry if Nintendo doesn't know how to make a spaceship shooter that goes with the times in both, gameplay and art direction, because this this shit feels slow af for what it is (or should be intended in any case).
>>337879162
SF fanbase is pathetic more news at 11
>>337879113
I learned to use that gamepad, and then I learned that I hated it. Therefore, I have the right to criticize it.
>>337879016
Great control scheme senpai
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-airways-plane-drone-crash-7779090
>>337878892
Sin & Punishment 2 and Kid Icarus both had different control schemes, which separated aiming and movement, and were both excellent games.
New technology allows for expansion and experimentation among genres, which naturally bring changes to how the games themselves are designed. Using speed as an objective quantifier of quality is a stupid way to look at it because Zero and 64 are not trying to be the same game. You're the one that's trying to fit every single rail shooter into a specific mold.
>>337879317
>doesn't disrupt the flight
>0 fatalities
>everything went back to business the next day
meanwhile, flight stick controlled planes crash, and millions of people die from them.
>>337879150
d pad is still better for fighting games and platformers.
>>337879283
I actually had more fun with Adventures. At least it was an okay adventure with great graphics.
>>337879402
>Sin & Punishment 2 and Kid Icarus both had different control schemes
And they were mediocre games. So that tells me that maybe reinventing the wheel is a bad idea when you have a wheel already.
>>337879517
And gyro is better for aiming. No matter how well it succeeded or failed in SFZ.
>>337872749
It deserves a score somewhere between Assault and 64. Using metacritic scores, that means between a 67 and 88. Halfway between those is 77.5 and while anons might think it deserves more or less points than that, I think that's at least a more reasonable score than the current 69 metacritic shows.
>>337879495
Imagine that shit flying into a jet engine
>>337879402
S&P 2 used the pointer, not gyro controls. It was good though, yes.
And I didn't like Kid Icarus' controls whatsoever. It was nothing more than a game bumbling about due to the at the time lack of a second thumbstick on the 3DS.
>Zero and 64 are not trying to be the same game.
And that's why Zero is a reboot of a reboot with the same story and stages and bosses, right?
>>337879402
Sin and Punishment 2 was an excellent game, Kid Icarus Uprising was not.
>>337879517
No kbm is better for those and every other genre or vehicle or anything that need to be controlled
>>337879594
>KIU was a mediocre game
Man Nintendo fanbase really like throwing each other under the bus
>>337879627
Gyro isn't fucking better for aiming though.
Look at Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, aiming in TP is incredibly intuitive and responsive while aiming in SS is janky and requires its own fucking recalibrate button.
>>337875237
>I think the SFZ controls are shit, but Splatoon gyro is objectively better.
How can the gyro be different? Do you mean used better in the game's design? Or that actually the gyro is the same but the other controls (sticks and buttons) are better set-up around the gyro?
>>337879402
>Sin & Punishment 2 and Kid Icarus both had different control schemes
Neither used gyro. Sin & Punishment used the pointer, Uprising used touch.
And both the Wii remote and 3DS had gyro. Face it, it doesn't work.
>>337875225
>>337875225
>>337875294
>>337875308
Just a little confused by so many negative comments.I don't mind having to use new control schemes. If anything, I kind of enjoy the gimmicks because I never fully enjoyed the Wii. I fucking hated it when the Wii first came out. I was a little shit back then and only played stuff like Call of Duty 4, Rainbow Six 3, or Guitar Hero.
I can spare $35 for it so I'll go ahead and buy it tomorrow. Thanks.
>>337879627
>but muh gyro
holy shit, fuck off already, Super precise aiming was never a thing you would need on rail shooters, fast, responsive movement was always more important and thats were gyro feels like shit.
>>337872749
It's a pos game and you know it stop deluding yourself nintendrone manchild
>>337879689
>And that's why Zero is a reboot of a reboot with the same story and stages and bosses, right?
the setting or story does not impact the level design or boss design. The games play purposely different and a lot of people fail to see that.
>>337879627
>gyro is better than KBM for aiming
>>337879627
>And gyro is better for aiming
Yeah, that's why all games with it require a calibration button.
>>337879781
Of course we do. Look at Smash, "AAAHHHAHAHAHA XFAGS GOT BTFO!".
>>337879802
>look at this example with outdated tech
And SS used gyro aiming it was often also dependent on the sensor bar, the beetle being the prime example. Just a small correction.
mouse>gamepad gyro>wii pointer>wii gyro>sticks
>>337879870
do any of you retards read the entire sentence before posting? His point was that rail shooters should confine the aiming to the movement controls. The games I mentioned do not, both in different ways, despite being great rail shooters
>>337880062
They're the best option for gamepad aiming.
>>337879517
>d pad is still better for fighting games
Better than thumbsticks, sure. Not the best option though.
>>337880196
>gyro>pointer
please try shooting arrows in SS and then do it in TP
>>337879630
Where does this image come from? That looks like the ROB model from Smash 4.
>>337880048
> The games play purposely different
Yes, Zero plays slower because it needs to be slower for you to be able to deal with the stupid idea of constantly switching screens to be able to move and aim.
You know why Star Fox, Star Fox 64, S&P, Panzer Dragoon, and PD2 all had mobility and aiming tied to the same stick? Because they were all on consoles with only one fucking stick. And S&P2 put aiming on the pointer because there was no second stick, and KIU put aiming on the touch controls because there was no second stick.
There was no reason whatsoever that Nintendo had to force aiming in Zero to be done with gyro controls on a second screen except for them wanting to push their stupid gimmick controller.
>>337880004
But the gyro is fast and responsive. I mean it wouldn't be accurate if it wasn't responsive, but what about the gyro aiming in Star Fox feels slow to you?
>>337880004
>fast, responsive movement was always more importan
That's what the gyro in Splatoon is. The gyro in Star Fox Zero is just sub standard.
>>337880246
>His point was that rail shooters should confine the aiming to the movement controls.
>should
God damn, you're an idiot. I'm not saying that they should do anything, I'm just saying that it was what those games did. And Zero using gyros to aim instead of leaving it tied to mobility or putting it on a second stick is stupid as fuck.
>>337880196
>mouse>gamepad gyro
So you admit it? Then why should I have to settle for an inferior control scheme?
>this thread
Another video game discussion devolved into a shit-fling contest.
>>337880620
>This was an intentional design choice because it tied your mobility and accuracy together and the games required skill as a result of it.
>You had to master the control scheme to be able to both move safely and aim efficiently at the same time.
>Zero throws this shit out the window by separating movement and aiming
read the shit you're writing
>>337880134
Just like games that use sticks 'require' auto-aim and sticky aim?
>>337880393
Which game do you think is better for aiming?
Read my post again and make sure I'm disagreeing with you.
>>337881005
>PC games
>"requiring auto aim"
>>337881005
Twilight Princess clearly had better aiming, it was faster, less finicky, didn't require a recalibration button, let you actually turn WHILE aiming, it was 100% superior to Skyward Sword's shit aiming system.
>>337881076
No one is arguing about PC games. You just pushed PC into a discussion about pad control schemes.
>>337881149his ranking clearly mentions that Wii's pointer is superior to Wii's gyro
>>337880825
>This game did x
>This game did y and it sucked
>This means everything should do x
No, dumbass, that's not what I said. We've already established that S&P2 was a good game. But S&P2 was a very different game to S&P1, while SF0 is not a very different game to SF64. And S&P2's new control scheme was functional despite being different, whereas SF0's new control scheme is just needlessly convoluted at the expensive of readily available alternatives.
>>337880778
>And people said only krystalfags ruin SF threads
They were wrong...
>>337881076
>implying you're not forced to lift your mouse and take it back to the neutral position when scanning long areas
calibration. Shit scheme. Throw it out
>>337880452
It is. Most of the image is a screenshot from Crimson Skies.
>>337880631
I don't admit shit because I'm not who you were arguing with. Welcome to 4chan. And if you read the posts far back enough, anon said gyro was better than thumbsticks and the d-pad. So even if I was that anon, I still wouldn't be contradicting myself and 'admitting' anything.
And the post I responded too was comparing pointer aim to gyro aim. I'm the first one to bring up the mouse and no one before me in the reply chain said gyro was the best option.
>>337881186
Why aren't you discussing PC games? I thought gyro was the perfect controller, unbeatable b y any other?
>>337881240
Not to mention that S&P2 even let you use classic controller and gamecube controller.
>>337881210
Oh, I missed that he was stupid and somehow thinks the Wii U's gyro is in any way better than the Wii's Gyro when it's the same nonfunctional garbage.
>>337881409
>I thought gyro was the perfect controller, unbeatable b y any other?
No one in this thread has said this though.
>>337875881
>I'm guessing that...
Into the trash it goes.
>>337881240
you don't even know your own retarded point
>these types of game do x
>this game didn't do x and I don't like it
>hurr I'm in no way implying that games have to do x
>>337881076
>playing pc shooters with thumbsticks
I was talking about how console games have auto-aim online because sticks. PC gamers are allowed to use sticks without auto-aim, and some console games let you turn the auto-aim off. My point is that auto-aim is an industry standard for shooters on consoles because of thumbsticks.
>>337881441
It did? Damn, I'd totally forgotten. Though the pointer controls actually worked well enough that I didn't mind keeping them.
>>337881541
So you've run out of arguments and are just repeating your own idiotic misinterpretation that I just cleared up for you. Fuck off then.
>>337877324
>The gimmick fad has ended
Tell that to anyone investing in VR.
>>337881149
But I said as much in my post anon.
>>337881446
Oh, I missed that you're being a cunt and pretending it's exactly the same. Go play SS and Splatoon, then tell me it's the exact same. Spoiler alert: if you can then you're more dedicated to seeming right than being correct.
Just stopping by this thread to say I still play, still haven't gotten all the medals, and still think it's slightly better than 64.
For the sector Ω boss, you can attack the steel beams that hold his arms to the main ship. He won't take damage, but before long the corresponding arm will break off and he takes that arm's worth of damage.
>>337875881
Cuthbert is a hack. Why do people here shill him?
>>337881615
It did. I always played Wii games with gc controller given the chance, but for S&P2 i switched to wiimote.
>>337881795
Splatoon barely fucking used the gyro for anything, it was Y-axis aiming and that was it.
meanwhile Starfox Zero is borderline unplayable dogshit and is much WORSE than even Skyward Sword's gyro.
>>337881839
Yeah I noticed that too.
>>337881814
I can only speak myself and thus obviously not for that anon. But I am assuming he just can't stand controlling airplanes with anything but sticks for some reason.
>>337877780
Motion control is terrible and should but you like the Wii pointer system?
Care to explain? I'm genuinely interested.
If you had to look at the gamepad to aim, you're fucking shit at video games and need to kill yourself. I got used to the controls after the first fucking level. Game's a solid 7.5-8, basically just a rehash of 64 but one that needed to exist to rejuvinate the misguided franchise. Too bad arcade shooters can no longer exist unless they're 10 dollar indie games.
>>337881582
That's because consoles are dumbed down for wider audiences. Notice how "enlightened" games like Splatoon don't offer server modding or customization on the level of games like Quake and TF2? guess why.
>>337882008
>it was Y-axis aiming and that was it
It's the X-axis too. It's the sticks while gyro is enabled that are limited as far as their axis is concerned.
>>337875881
Daily reminder that this is why he wrote command's stories and tried to drive it to the ground. It wasn't krystal.
>>337881880
This
SF:0 was meh. It's not shit but not anywhere near worth the asking price for what's available.
The controls are rubbish, they could have easily made a control scheme that didn't have a hour(s) long adjustment period, but they wanted to push the Wii U Gamepad like shit uphill.
Also, the vehicle segements like the gyro slow the gameplay down stupidly. They didn't know whether they wanted to make a straight-up shooter (right choice) or an adventure game with shooting segments, they chose poorly.
Fuck Nintendo, they've lost the plot, with M:FF and pic related and now this, they've shown that they just don't give a fuck about what their user base wants anymore.
>>337882449
>hours long
You're shit at video games and a total casual. The sheer amount of casuals complaining about gyro controls that actually work show how worthless the userbase of /v/ is.
>>337882603
>implying
Care to address to point that they aren't arse? I got used to them very fast but doesn't change the fact they still suck compared to standard twin-stick controls.
Just because you can get used to something doesn't it's not shit.
>>337882449
>Also, the vehicle segements
The Landmaster is still cool. Just like it was in Star Fox 64. The landmaster was never a problem.
The rest of the vehicles can fuck off though. It's all about the Arwing and the Landmaster.
>>337875693
He's calling you that because you refuse to learn the controls of a game because you don't like them.
Which would be fine if you didn't jump on your internet soap box telling us why like anyone in the world should, or could possibly give a shit about youbor your opinion. That's why you're an entitled faggot.
>>337882775
Yeah, I was referring to any vehicle that changes the game from a standard shooter into an adventure game. So landmaster and the sub are fine. Chickenwalker is fine as long as it's not changing the game from shooter to platformer.
>>337882603
Funny how you keep calling people cashul for not liking a gimmick that was made to attract casuals that like gimmicks, you are not mastering quake, fuckin kid, you playing a shitty kids game.
>>337882805
>He's calling you that because you refuse to learn the controls of a game because you don't like them.
I gave it a try, didn't I? But I didn't like them. And they're eternally inferior to other control schemes, so why should I waste my time on something that's weaker than what I'm normally accustomed to?
>Which would be fine if you didn't jump on your internet soap box telling us why like anyone in the world should, or could possibly give a shit about youbor your opinion.
You say this in a thread where people are called "filthy normie scum" if they don't praise Star Fox Zero. Do you not get the irony here?
